Latest / Skin Anarchy / The Rootist’s Breakthrough in Hair Health With Fermentation and Biotechnology

Transcript

The Rootist’s Breakthrough in Hair Health With Fermentation and Biotechnology · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hey guys, welcome back to Sinkra Eraphy.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_00: This is your host Texta and I'm really really excited about this episode because as a lot of you know, you know, there's not many options out there for hair care right now that are really focusing on I think nourishment first.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: I personally as a consumer see it as a big white space.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I have actually, you know, been using a new brand and I've been absolutely loving them.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: Really fell in love after maybe like one or two times of using their shampoo and conditioner.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of you might have heard of them already.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: So without further ado, I want to introduce you guys to Alison Yi, who is the chief brand officer for The Rudest.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome, Alison.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so honored to be hosting you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thank you.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so honored to be here.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the fact that you've noticed the brand that you're using it is pretty amazing.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: The brands that you feature, it's kind of a who's who of what's up and coming, and we're just so delighted and honored that you would see the rudest as part of that.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, you guys are definitely the who's who right now for me.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I use your shampoo like almost every time that I'm uh looking to cleanse my scalp and really nourish it.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: And because I try to switch things up in my hair care routine, and I think that's why I'm so excited to talk to you today, because in the hair care uh sector of the beauty industry, I feel like there's a lot of like the same options, you know, and that's what I keep seeing as a consumer.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I'm like, wow, what you're doing is just very, very new and it's very fresh.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: So before we dive into that, Donaldson, I would love to learn about you and your journey and tell us about the brand.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like what led to the creation of the Rudist?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, thanks.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: And my background is in brand marketing.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I was really lucky to find my passion and beauty at a young age, straight out of undergrad.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I grew up through brand marketing, which I guess, you know, maybe different definitions, but for me, it's always been a focus on the brand consumer, the positioning, the storytelling, innovation, creative.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I came to, as I grew as an executive over the years, um, come to really appreciate some of the more technical sides of what it takes to bring a brand story to life, you know, clinical testing and regulatory affairs.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And while I don't have any scientific or or chemistry background, I've gotten to work with such incredible partners over the years that I guess I've learned enough to be to be dangerous.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I my background is in all sorts of different beauty brands.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: I spent a lot of time in hair care though, um, over the years.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, from my one of my first brand experiences in hair was working for Frederick Vicky, phenomenal brand.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: After that, Trina Hair Care as well, worked on skincare, teeth whitening, fragrance, mostly prestige brands over the years.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I also went to JJ and Elizabeth Arden for a little while, kind of getting different aspects of the category.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: I worked mostly in the US, but also spent some time living and working abroad in Singapore.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: Before this opportunity, I had always worked on existing brands.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of them were still independently held.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Most of them were, and a lot of them were kind of in need of a reinvigoration.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we would say recalibration, which was a kind word for turnarounds.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but that's sort of where I cut my teeth and growing up in the industry.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I had this dream ever since, and I I know so many people who you talk to probably have similar stories, but of being able to actually work on something from the ground up.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: It had become such a professional goal.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: After taking some time off after a recent turnaround project and really bringing a brand into its best state, I took some time away and tried to manifest what I would do.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I was introduced to David Chung, who many of you know is quite a force in the beauty industry, someone who's been innovating for 30 years, a serial entrepreneur, and someone who's just really brought a lot of innovative thinking to the industry.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_01: And he helped found and uh, you know, number of brands are founded number of brands from Three Lab to Pharmacy Beauty, uh, Inglewood Lab on the contract manufacturing side, iLabs now on the contract manufacturing side.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_01: And he's created such an incredible organization to be able to support the creation of a brand.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: And he has such incredible vision himself and forward thinking that after we were introduced, sort of was like I had manifested this dream that I had to finally be able to work on something, like I said, from the ground up.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he was for many years had really wanted to do something in the hair and scalp care space.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: Such a fan of David, though.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: I I'm so glad that you dove into his background.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um I had an opportunity to interview him, you know, a while back, and it was just so fun to talk to him because you're right, he's just such an innovator.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'm I am like one of his biggest fans, I swear.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, as am I, as are a lot of people.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if everyone knows him just because he's not like a big podium person.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, he's always been focused on the work.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: But well, I'm glad you've had a chance to talk so you know a bit more about why, again, he would be such an incredible founder and person to work for and with in bringing a brand to life.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, absolutely brilliant.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what you guys are creating here, I mean, I it really speaks to the experience, you know, that you've described just now.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, when I first tried the Rudas, I'll tell you honestly, for everyone listening, you know, we're always looking for options, right?
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: In in any kind of category in the beauty community.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: But what m really stuck out to me was this is very new, you know, like I had that aha moment as a consumer.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I was just like, yeah, see, that's I I look for that, you know, like we all look for that.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where we're just like, wow, this is very fresh, very new, very cool.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm really excited to learn about where this idea started for the formulation.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I mean, you know, I'm sure Alison, you're gonna tell us about it, but you know, it's a very concentrated formula that we're working with, right?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: With the Rudas in terms of the shampoo and conditioners, it's more concentrated.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, no, absolutely.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: It came down to knowing that hair and scalp care had been an area of beauty where David saw ripe opportunity for innovation, his own, you know, background.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was originally born in Korea and has been in the US, you know, as a beauty entrepreneur and leader for for so many years, but still has so many connections and ties back to Korean and the way of thinking about how you address consumer concerns or issues is different.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I know this is something a topic you've explored with, you know, several other brand founders and guests over the course of all of the interviews that you've done and some that I've gotten a chance to listen to, I'm sure you're not surprised that like, you know, just the way that you think about something when you grow up in a culture where fermentation is part of your daily life, it's just just different because it doesn't strike you as strange at all.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: It makes it immediately makes a lot of sense.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: So when we first started talking about, you know, where specifically his interests lied and also, you know, my background in hair and some key members of his team that I was introduced to in the very beginning, we first started with taking a look at like what is going on in hair in terms of almost like a consumer epidemic of scalp issues.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, since I had worked on Frederick Facay, had worked on Alterna, for years, this has been a topic of conversation in the industry around um skincare, skinification of hair.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's not new, but how to approach it, we thought could be very new and different.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: And also the bar for what it takes to succeed and breakthrough as a new brand these days is pretty high.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: There will always be a demand in a space for brands that are doing something new.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why, you know, you have the motivation, despite, you know, just the kind of odds stacked against a brand succeeding.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But if you focus on yes, what is your new approach?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so we pretty quickly, through the team that we had assembled, come up with the idea that we were going to address the root cause of different hair and scalp concerns by taking a more biology-focused approach.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: And what technically could do that the best for us was fermentation.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it was something that, again, it almost seemed like second nature uh to David as someone who, you know, grew up around kimchi and fermented bean paste and you know, uncles drinking muckali, and like it's there's so much fermentation is such a just an integral part of Korean culture.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but actually the practice has been around for thousands of years and it in in so many different cultures.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of makes sense that it would help in this sort of an instance where the roots and the scalp and the hair are one ecosystem.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: But especially in this part of the world, don't see brands taking that biology first approach so much, and certainly not like saying, I'm going to make fermentation the cornerstone of everything I do.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to create our own patent penning ferment that I'm going to clinically test and validate to make sure that it works and it addresses the needs, the different needs of the roots of scalp and the hair in a different way.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to use that to replace the water content.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I know that's a lot to unpack, but it takes someone like David to have the wherewithal, the Hutzpah, to go out something as big as like, let's just reinvent the chemistry of hair care, you know.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: And with biology, biotechnology fermentation, we're going to throw out the 1950s chemistry playbook using his team at iLabs, because you guys probably know again, he he has a contract manufacturing as part of his enterprise.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so we had access to the chemists in the US and in Korea to be able to take on such a monumental task of doing something completely new from a formulation standpoint.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean, I just think that it's it's absolutely brilliant, actually.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and I love that you went into, you know, really talking about fermentation, how it is such a cultural thing, because this is a conversation that recently I've been trying to bring up more with not only like in our interviews, but also just even for myself, right, as a consumer to try to understand is this idea that you know, a lot of people talk about things like clean beauty and they talk about green beauty, and that's a wonderful thing, but then we miss the science, you know what I mean, when it comes to those terms sometimes, because we a lot of times what exists in nature is so advanced because it's existed there for a long time, you know what I mean?
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_00: So like the molecules that evolve over time naturally, like as they're occurring in nature, in things such as like in processes such as fermentation, are actually more bioavailable than you know what we can create in a lab, like just trying to make it ourselves as human beings.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's just a fact of nature, you know, and so I think it's an absolutely brilliant approach to making any kind of a product that is supposed to be geared towards like, you know, more nourishment and pushing it in a healthier way.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes with hair care that I've noticed, we're using ingredients in some products that are just extremely harsh because we're trying to get to an end result rather than trying to figure out, well, what is it that's going to cause this to be like a, you know, a process that leads to the results that we want.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why fermentation makes sense to me.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I've studied biology my whole life.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I majored in biology, and I remember when we first learned about fermentation, one of the things that stuck out to me was like, you know, when things are fermented by different microorganisms, the different molecules are changed and broken down.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: So like a larger molecule will be broken down so that it is available in higher concentrations and it's more actual, like I was saying earlier.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So it feels like a new concept to us, but to apply this biology, you know what I mean, to OTC products.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's absolutely brilliant.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm so glad that David, you know, all your whole team, you guys sat down and really thought about this from the scientific angle because that's really what it is.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's it's about the science first.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I would expect with your background that you know, you do know so much about this.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it makes having a conversation really fun.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not a scientist, but I've learned so much from our resident expert in fermentation.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_01: Alison Cutlin is an incredible um, you know, force in the industry.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: She has created a skincare brand that was based on all on fermentation, and she's a medicinal plant expert and a biologist.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: And she's who we I had the pleasure of working with, in addition to a brilliant cosmetic chemist team led by Senia Popova, who is an expert in green chemistry.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: So she doesn't, she like 1950s chemistry would never come out of her in her lab with a team between the two of them.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, it I've I have learned so much.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: They and they they often talk about um, yes, the bioavailability that comes when you're when you ferment something, also the the bioactivity of plant compounds, the ability to increase the penetration of the compounds, how it makes compounds safer for the skin.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: And it's doing all of that with the the inputs of what you put in, but it's also creating additional um nutrition, pre and post and parabiotic nutrients that are created through the process that didn't exist before.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like a true one plus one equals three.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you're right, this is ancient wisdom, but being applied to the lunch of modern biotechnology.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the way we saw it as a perfect fit was because this is what it, like you said, is going to get to not just the quick fix.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the mask, it is the true root getting to the pardon the pun, because we're the rudest, the true root cause of whatever the hair and scalp concern is.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we kind of consider it in the realm of complete hair wellness that is rooted in fermentation.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I really think that this is kind of like a new era that you guys are spearheading for the hair care industry, honestly.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I I look at what you're doing and I and I think, you know, if there are options, and I'm a huge believer in this, I think a lot of our listeners are, is that if, you know, I believe in in options that are always like kind of going to more towards bridging the gap between like really like pharmaceutical grade stuff and and things that are OTC, but in a beautiful way, you know what I mean?
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: In a way that's like innovative and it's it's leaning on nature, it's leaning on natural sciences and biological, you know, just principles that we we often don't get to apply.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_00: And when you when you look at things like, you know, I I come from that side of medicine where it's just you know all allopathic medicine, right?
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So like I'm always seeing these really harsh chemicals being created in labs, and we're seeing that as doctors, you know, we use as medications.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_00: But then when I look at the OTC space, I I think that's where it's like important to use this flexibility and use it in the right way to formulate things that are really inspired by naturally occurring systems, you know, in our environment.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's where I just find it to be so fascinating that you guys are doing this.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that a lot of people can benefit because as you know, Alison, I mean, hair care has been, you know, buzzing lately, especially scalp care, because everybody's realizing, hey, I've been using that one shampoo, you know, you uh from like you said, like that 1950s approach.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've been using it for 10 years and my scalp is terrible.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like I have dandruff and I have all this, and all these things are happening, and people are trying to find solutions for it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So now more than ever, I think we really have to lean into the science, you know, and it's very cool to see that you guys are doing that.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: We hope to kind of we say internally, we're not here to revolutionize, although again, people can say whatever we're doing, judge it for what you will, but we really hope to evolve and help set a standard through the choices that we're making, the way that we're trying to dare to do things that are differently, but in a way that we hope will actually inspire other brands across the beauty industry realm to push the envelope too and help us all kind of move forward.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: The the Rudist is a brand that, like in its DNA, we try to root for others as much as we root for ourselves.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: And so we would love to be a part of, you know, collaborating with other like-made-minded brands.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: We actually, you know, we found a small community of brands that reached out to us or that we talked to and kind of have a similar approach.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think all boats can rise and we'd all just kind of like to be a part of moving the industry forward and evolving it.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I want to actually dive into some of the results that you guys have seen.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you've definitely done your homework.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So could you share some stuff with us, like in terms of like actual data or results that you've seen with any trials that were conducted, you know, with the products?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, our testing occurs at multiple levels.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of, I guess, the background of the team that we brought together is coming up with a product that truly works is everything.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we can have our hypotheses, we can do all of our research, but we're going to test and verify along the way.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, the integrity of the brand's claims is so important to us.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we really implemented a lot of testing at different levels.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: So the first area would be around the creation of the root biomic ferment itself.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that is our that is our secret sauce that that is the patented ingredient that I was referring to that we use to replace the water content and that we got a chance to create together.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's really a super brew, if you will, that is feeding and fortifying and fundamentally transforming the hair.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's what it was created to do by targeting different aspects of the roots and the scalp and the hair.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And so, with that team that I mentioned, um with um Allison Cutland, with Sonny Popova and everyone, they who was a part of creating this, um, they came up with again the the research of the selection of the ingredients that went into it, all of them well-researched ingredients, eight clinically effective botanicals are kind of the cornerstone of that ferment.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then two fermented organisms that were specially selected as part of that process.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: So the rationale for everything that was created there.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then the ferment, the finished fermentation was tested for lots of different activity, you know, antioxidant activity.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not the scientist, so I'm not going to be able to explain it all, but in terms of, you know, how what does the ferment itself produce when applied to the roots and the scalp and the hair?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And so testing was done at that level.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then since we're using this to replace the water content to the extent there is water content in our formulas, because we we don't add any water, we we're using the ferment in place of that.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have for our waterless formulas actually a powderized version of the root biomic ferment, which we created as well.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: And so we added other ingredients that we felt like were going to be clinically effective ingredients that comes from a more biologically driven place.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not saying that everything is natural or everything is organic, but it comes from a more biology-oriented place in terms of the ingredients that we select.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then we have clinically tested many of our finished formulas, but apart from, of course, standard safety testing, which of course we're going to do.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: We have done biodegradability testing on our finished formulas, something that we set as a standard from the from the early days that we wanted our we care about what happens when you're rinsing a formula down your shower drain.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that informed our decision.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: So we we wanted to test our finished formulas for that.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then we actually wanted to test for clinical efficacy.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: So um Biobrew, which is our fermented strengthening serum, and it's a leave-in serum, bi phase.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's probably if you've if you've seen some of our the rudest advertising around or seen influencers talking about it, this is probably the one that you you saw first.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we did extensive testing on this uh consumer perception, expert grading, bioinstrumentation, and then microbiome testing as well.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, you could say that we're, yeah, when I said I was a bit of a clinical testing nerd earlier, it took a long, way too long about the subject of testing.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, we we wanted to we know what consumers care about, and we want knew we wanted to make certain claims about our formulas.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so we knew we had to do testing to back it up and we wanted to do it independently and on a variety of different hair types and textures, something that's also really meaningful to us.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: And so lots and lots of testing.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it obviously can go into more detail if there's a specific product that you want like to.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's really fascinating because I think when you have good science, the testing will go with it.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it has to.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's it's wonderful that you're a clinical trials nerd because I am too.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I really believe that as a consumer, you know, above all else, when I look at a any brand, any product, I want to know that the people who are creating this have actually realized that as consumers, like we are putting our trust there, you know what I mean?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so that should be done.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you guys did that.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I love that you're being so forward about it because in the hair care industry, it's a very grace space.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna lie, you know, it's that's the truth.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not there yet.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: Where I would like to see it as a consumer, like I would love to see it where skincare is right now.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: Skincare right now is really progressing, I think, you know, like with leaps and bounds when it comes to this whole like transparency around their clinical data.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, but with hair care, even though the scalp is considered, in my opinion, skincare, we don't talk about it enough, you know, and we don't discuss what you exactly what you explained, which is what does this actually do?
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_00: What does the ferment do after you apply it?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Does it help the microbiome?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_00: Does it, you know, promote the microenvironment of the scalp?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these kind of questions have to be asked, right?
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, at the end of the day, why would we how can we ever differentiate something if we don't ask those questions?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I love that.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you guys are, you know, really kind of science forward on all of this.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, I won't lie to you, I love the serum, but my my favorite, I I kid you not, is the shampoo and conditioner.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I really, really love your shampoo and conditioner.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll tell you why.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I honestly, for me, I've always had really thick hair, you know, and I and I like that you brought up, you know, that it's good for like pretty much all hair types because I've had really thick hair my whole life.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the biggest problems I found was that for some reason in the US, there were never products geared towards like clarifying your scalp, as they call it, without stripping it, like literally stripping it to like full dryness.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: And what I've noticed with the Rudus, like with the shampoo, I'm able to do that.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: And it the oiliness of my scalp and the the whole environment that I'm trying to maintain, it's managed.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's like changing the way that my scalp produces oil in the best way.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's changing the way that it responds to, you know, if I have a day where I don't wash it, you know, these kind of things are are now like it's streamlining that for me.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that really speaks volumes because when you have a lot of hair like I do, it's really, really hard.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: When you're skipping washing or whatever, it's really hard to maintain that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: So when you do wash it, you want to make sure that you're balancing it.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: You want to make sure that you're taking care of it in a way that it's a long term result, and you know, you feel confident in that.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I really I I mean you've really created an option for me.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I love that.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you're specifically calling out the shampoo and conditioner as well because this is one of the areas where we as a brand, you know, with David's ability to take on a really difficult challenge, is the fact that we went with a concentrated shampoo and conditioner formula and the the no-added water on top of that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was like just how challenging you could possibly make this be.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe your listeners might be curious about like how hard it was to create them or how long, how many rounds we went.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I have no problem talking about that because I think that it's helpful to know that doing difficult things can be very time consuming or it can just be like almost like you think you're never gonna get there.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_01: I come from a different brand background where you know you you come up with a concept and yes, you work with you know phenomenal PD team and chemists and all of that.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe if it's super challenging, you might have to go five, six, maybe even 10 rounds on a formula.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_01: But that was that was not even scratching the surface.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: When we were creating the strength, the strength and concentrated shampoo and conditioner, we were at round 40, asking ourselves, wow, are we gonna get there?
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_01: Round 50, round 60, 70 rounds.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, God bless the the chemist who had the patience to work with us here at my labs for that whole time, but we couldn't compromise.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we took the chemist team out to dinner after we finally approved everything.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: And and I asked them, how did you keep going?
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's so atypical.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: You you know, that you would go that many rounds and without killing us.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: How did you how did you find the strength though to just keep going back to the well?
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: And and and what was the big unlock?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I asked each of them who had worked on one of the initial formulas, but those who had the shampoo and conditioner had the absolutely most difficult challenge.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they said that they knew that in like they felt an internal drive to be part of the evolution of hair care for the industry.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: And so they they really wanted to prove that this was possible.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_01: And so they dug deep and just kept going.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: And what we came out with are, I'm so just elated to hear your feedback on it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But we, you know, we've heard that from consumers and and influencer partners and editors as well, who are just telling us that it is almost like came up with a name for it, like the rudest reset.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: You, if you are if you can use this, if you can actually make this your wash care.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't really, because obviously not everyone is washing daily, but if you make this your wash care and just see what happens, you almost have to trust the process as you're going.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're not used to using silicone-free formulas to begin with, just the feel of the formulas going through your hair and how it feels rinsing out, you're like, whoa, what it's different.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_01: What's going on here?
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: The conditioner, it almost like sinks into the hair as opposed to as opposed to like, you know, it's not coating.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: But again, that's because it's if we're not using heavy conditioning agents and silicones and things like that, we're using different ingredients.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then the fact that it's concentrated, you use half your normal amount.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And yet it's not, you know, there's different.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that there are brands that are experimenting with different forms, but for a lot of consumers, it's super hard for them to change ingrained behavior.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: So solid bars, hard for people to for everyone to embrace, or something that, you know, doesn't immediately, you know, that you have to dilute or something.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: So what from the beginning, our goal with the shampoo and conditioner was to be able to make it a luxurious, beautiful, wonderful experience that is as close to normal in terms of your own behavior, pump.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: You just pump less, you know, just like so, you know, two, three pumps for for the average user, maybe more if you have longer hair, but half your regular amount and then just be able to go into your hair, have a beautiful lather, have it rinse beautifully, and then not pay attention to what's happening in the shower because at first it might feel so strange, but pay attention to what's happening in the mirror.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Pay attention as you're drying to the changes that you're noticing in your hair.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what I heard you alluding to that makes me so excited is that you were seeing that in your mind.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's so cool because you know, I wanted to actually tell you this too, because I'm a firm believer in the idea of like forming habits.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: I really believe in it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, you know, in the beauty space, a lot of times we love switching products up, you know, and and sometimes it's by choice, sometimes it's because we're traveling or they're not available to us.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_00: We couldn't take them with us, you know.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: But you guys have really eliminated a lot of those kind of hurdles, I think, when it comes to forming our habit and sticking to something.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because for me, like I love the size of all the products.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're really easier to like take with me anywhere I go.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And also, it's easy for me to then say, I'm using this set of products every day or every other day, and I know what I'm using.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I know what to expect now.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_00: From my actual scalp and and my hair.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: I know what to expect, and that's huge for consumers.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I can't tell you how many times, like I grew up, you know, I'm Indian.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I grew up in a household where we did hair oiling every day, but it was always with the same oil.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like it was like the same tried and true ingredients that I used for my hair every day growing up.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that is something I've carried with me my whole life is this idea that what you use, you have to stick to and you have to wait till it shows results.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like that is kind of built into what you guys have created because it's so easy to do that.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can take the shampoo with you if you're traveling.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: You can take it with you wherever you go.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's not wasting space, it's sustainable.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, like you said, it takes half the amount to actually get a full rinse of, you know, your scalp and your hair versus the average shampoo.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's beautiful the way it, you know, it kind of translates to the consumer experience.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's where I'm just like, I'm I'm just in awe of it because, you know, truthfully, in the beauty industry, I love that we have so many options, but half the reason people are, you know, showing pathologies at this point when it comes to their scalp health or their skin health or whatever, it's because they're not sticking to a regimen.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the honest truth.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, when I look at it, that's what I see.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, that's also a sustainability question, right?
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: At the end of the day, because it's like, why aren't we providing options to consumers that allow them to have a habit, to allow them to be have their tried and trues in a sustainable way?
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you guys nailed it.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Like you just nailed it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: You checked off all my boxes, you know.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Those formulas are some of the most beloved, but they are some that not enough, I mean, relative to some of our other skews, because I think naturally when when someone is discovering a hair care brand for the first time in the prestige space, they I think they tend to gravitate towards more, you know, specialty items and treatments because, and maybe for the for good reason, they do have their tried and true shampoo and conditioner.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: We would love for more people to give these formulas a chance because we know what they can do.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that it is there is still something that we have to acknowledge is is out there, is that when you see something that's smaller, there is a psychological barrier.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: But I just remind people, do you remember what laundry detergent bottles used to look like?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: How big they were and how heavy, like um, you know, they're they're not that.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: You just need a small cap full now.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like things, they thankfully, you know, the formulation evolved and improved and things got smaller.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, for environmental impact, you're not shipping gigantic bottles of mostly water all around the world.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like the footprint is just so reduced.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's to me, I'm not gonna lie.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: As maybe I come from science, so maybe I'm just a nerd, but like I got excited when I saw that it's like a waterless formula.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like you've like well, not waterless, but you know, you've got it.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: It was exciting because I was like, oh my gosh, it's concentrated.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Let me try, you know, like I was really excited to try it.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it's cool when we see innovations like this because it feels like a leap forward, you know what I mean?
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that matters a lot.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I I feel like if you're a science forward person or you're somebody who really loves technology and you love, you know, the new and innovative approach, like you're gonna fall in love with the brand like when you see it and you try it for yourself.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's just an experience that you have to have.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_00: I really encourage everybody listening.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you are looking for, you know, something fun and new for your hair care journey and you want something effective, especially, this is really a great option.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_00: Like I've I've really fallen in love with it.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a big reason for that is because you guys did eliminate all of that fluff.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the fluff is not there.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really just solution-oriented hair care.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I see the rudest.
• 30:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Everything you just said is going to send our team and our chemists on cloud nine.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: You just made everybody's year.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: Again, we're so proud of being able to have achieved something that took a big leap forward in in technology and biotechnology and chemistry for us, you know, from our perspective, is a huge undertaking.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: But then the results are really, I feel like what is the most gratifying is what is it doing for people?
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And even just using the shampoo and conditioner alone, don't even use anything else, you will see a transformation.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: And and and I and I think that what you touched on, which I hope people are gonna feel great about, is that it is not just a quick fix, it is actually a lasting hair wellness.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_01: You you feel it root to tip.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: You so you can really feel confident both about how your hair is looking and behaving, but also you're feeling more confident about the ingredients that you're putting on your body, not to get too preachy, but like the choices that you're making.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can just you can feel good about all of it.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna also say like this is a really good option for anyone out there who has like um like any athletes in your family.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Like I know a lot of um like high school kids are like, you know, they're traveling a lot for sports and stuff.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is a really great option for all the moms out there listening that you're looking for something that they can take with them on the go, you know, because it's it's really they're products that are geared for, in my opinion, you know, I'm not the one that created them, but as a consumer, the way I see it, they're geared for being effective and really providing like the biggest bang for your buck kind of thing, you know, and this is promoting a healthy way of doing that because the ingredients, like you said, Allison, they're all geared towards nourishing, right?
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I'm just like, I feel like there's so many different demographics of people that could really align with what you've created here, you know, in in the sense that like for me in the medical field, we are always moving around, you know, it's always busy.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: There's no time for a lot of that self-care that we want to have time for.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And to be able to have things that are staples in our routine is absolutely fundamental.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I recently was speaking to some people, and this is why I bring up athletes.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I was speaking to them, and they literally were kind of echoing the same concerns, you know, about that, about being an athlete and then and hey, you know, we need products at work and we need to just use it and go.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of thing.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: So it's there's a lot of people out there that I think would resonate with this based just on that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: I would actually, while you're talking about athletes, I would add on that's actually a community we hear so much of with regard to our dry shampoo powder.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's in the component that you can brush on and you can pop it in your gym bag or your purse.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: You can take it with you.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that we've designed it with the powder version of the root biomic ferment, but also upsolite, which is an ingredient maybe some of your listeners may have heard of heard of used in facial setting powders.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really cool, innovative um new ingredient that can both absorb sweat and oil simultaneously.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: So sweat is like top of mind for I think so many people right now, because it's like the heat bomb and or heat dome or whatever they're calling it right now.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it's so hot that even if you have just freshly washed your hair, but you know you're gonna be out in, you're gonna be exercising, you're gonna be out in a sweaty, humid environment, summer's coming, just you can use this like almost like on freshly washed hair, and it will suck up and absorb and start to and lock in all of whatever is coming uh, you know, out of there.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, you've created some pretty amazing content on dry shampoo um to help educate um your listeners and community about this, but think about what dry shampoo is going to sit on your scalp.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: And you want to be really careful about what's there.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not trying to fear monger, but you know, just think about what you're putting there.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: And this formula, you don't have to apply it day after day.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of has, it keeps on absorbing, um, which is pretty incredible.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can touch it up a little bit and and or you know, and you don't have to use it all over.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_01: You could just use it on your bangs or whatever, you know, needs people have, but athletes is an audience, just kind of coming back to that.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_01: That we have heard so much organic love for that product in particular and the way that it applies, that I just couldn't couldn't help but bring that up as well.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm glad you did it.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_00: I love that product as well because it's actually really, really um friendly for dark hair.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I the first thing that stood out to me about it, in addition to everything that you mentioned.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: I have I have um very dark, almost black hair.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: And for me, dry shampoos have always been this pain point because they always make my hair look gray or like, you know what I mean?
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_00: You can see it, you can see the residue.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And that was like immediately, I noticed immediately, I was like, this is amazing.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't have to worry about that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: It works really well.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a brush that if for anyone listening, if you haven't tried it, like there's a brush that comes out when you open it and you can just kind of brush it onto your scalp and wherever you need it, and you can touch it up throughout the day, and it just beautifully and seamlessly blends in, and you don't have to worry about that cast, that that white cast look that you get, like that baby powder look from dry shampoos, you don't have to worry about it.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's the worst, and I can't believe that there's anyone who has a dry shampoo powder that they've created that they think it's okay that it doesn't work across a spectrum of hair shades, especially dark hair, because it has to, you can figure out how to do this, you know.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to, you know, formulate to include a little bit of tint.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like you know, making mineral sunscreens work for more melanated skin.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: You it's absolutely doable.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's no question that we were going to do that.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: And we have heard such positive feedback from our dark-haired users, it just blends right in.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: We were talking, our director of PD had an idea the other day because um she is Filipino American and she has naturally dark hair.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_01: And she said, I can just keep on putting it in.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: Do you remember that line from uh Mean Girls, which probably like the limit does not exist?
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like she's like, let's just keep putting it in and figure out if the limit does not exist, because I'm pretty sure you can just keep putting it in.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of spooky about how, but like listen, you don't need to use that much, but it was just something we were talking about that was fun internally.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yeah, it is though.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: I I haven't noticed any, I completely agree.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I've never noticed a problem with that at all.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I've used pretty much all of it, what I had, and I I've loved it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, well, we're gonna be sending you some more.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I was gonna tell you that after the interview, like, hey, I need a re-up.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: You got it.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_00: You got it.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: We actually can I say though, we we made refills, so you know, we were careful of the environment which our products live.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: We care about the ecosystem of the hair and we care about the ecosystem of the planet.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, what I will send you is more of the refills.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: So just screw up the bottom and screw it back on.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we are minimizing the amount of plastic that is out there that that is single use.
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_01: But you can just keep on reusing the brush part.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, from time to time, you can just kind of give it a like a little cleanse.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: But honestly, it's almost like the formula itself almost kind of like keeps the brush clean.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's not like that's not a validated claim.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_01: I can't promise that, but it is very uh it does a really good job of not getting gross where you can just kind of keep using it.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: And then yeah, we want you to just use refills and we're gonna make them more affordable.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we hope that this is something that, you know, it just becomes again more of like the new, the new normal of what to expect.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: I have to admit, before coming to the Rudist, I was one of those aerosol dry shampoo users.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't feel great about it just from my personal choices about like the kind of products that I want to use, but I actually would get down to the bottom and inevitably I'd I'd not have restocked my can.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I would notice, especially towards the end, when I'm getting like more propellant coming out, that my skin, my scalp would just go nuts.
• 38:27
  SPEAKER_01: It would like get really itchy.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I thought there's, you know, basically it's whatever was left at the bottom of the can.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I was just spraying that straight up on my hair and probably didn't have any more of a dry shampoo formula anymore.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so obviously I've stopped doing that.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: I never enjoyed that kind of disrupted scalp barrier experience.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: No one does want to be itchy and feel uncomfortable.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: And um, so we think that the world should have more good-for-you dry shampoo in it.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm a huge, I'm a huge believer in how you guys are approaching dry shampoo, actually, because I've uh done a lot of research in lung pathologies and I um, you know, done a lot of work in nanoparticle injuries and stuff, and air slized formulas are actually very bad for your lungs.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of beauty products that use air salized, you know, they're going in that route.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: I just we need to rethink that, in my honest opinion.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I mean, I know this is kind of like a side note, but like I really don't think that at this point, it was all the innovation out there that we need to be selling dry shampoo in these like containers and letting, you know, anybody like, you know, spray this on and then you're inhaling all of that.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: And like it's just it's a bad, I don't know, it just doesn't sit well with me as a scientist.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I like that your formula and the way that it is, the way it's delivering the product, like it's very safe, you know, compared to these traditional routes that we've taken before.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's also another point that I, you know, I really admire about what you're doing is that it is very forward thinking in so many different ways, you know.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what I think the beauty industry, from you know, for a lot of the brands that I end up adoring and I have really applauded, that's what to me stands out is anytime someone does something that's thinking outside of the box in multiple ways.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not just about like one thing.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like I think a lot of, you know, all the marketing hype out there, people try to say, like, oh, well, here's our marketing pitch, you know, here's the one thing we're doing and why you should be behind that.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I just don't buy it anymore as a consumer.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like if you're gonna make a product now, it needs to hit a lot of different areas, you know, and it needs to like really provide solution-oriented options for consumers that they don't have to think about these things.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the aeroslice thing, like you and I are talking about it.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I have a background in respiratory medicine, so I can like sit here and speak about it.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: But what the average consumer is not thinking about that.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: Like aeroslized particles and stuff.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like they're not thinking.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: It would be great if you know we could get to a point where, you know, we can just say confidently, but not overconfidently, like you can trust us.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: We did the hard thinking and the heavy lifting for you.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I think the trouble, um, not to get too philosophical about about challenges in the beauty industry, but I I'm sure I hopefully you don't mind and your listeners don't mind, is that like because of, and I I know you've talked about this before, but things like greenwashing, where you know, brand wants to give the appearance of something as opposed to the true something, it is so hard just to say, yes, I can trust you as a brand that everything you're saying is true because you hear enough stories of things that weren't.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I think you know, we try to be as transparent as we can be about everything that we're doing, you know, with and talking about it too, so that people can hope I I would love for people like yourself and biologists and chemists, look at our ILs, look at our formulas, look at our websites, like anything, you know, talk to us and we can go even in in more depth about what we're doing and you know, validate, please, that what we're saying is actually, you know, it's real.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: We didn't make any of this up.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: There's no smoke and mirrors.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: It's just real biology and science and and a bunch of people who really love fermentation and want to, yeah, get to the root cause of different hair and scalp concerns as opposed to just masking them.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: No, I love that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's really awesome that you said that because yeah, I've I'm a firm believer in like, you know, if you're really doing something right, you're gonna actually put that out there, you know, and say, yeah, come come challenge us.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's the true spirit of science.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if there's anything you think we're not doing, like let us know.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it it brings a lot of confidence for me as a consumer, um, you know, in in trusting a brand when they're very open about, hey, this is what we did, this is what we're going for, and we're here to, you know, take all feedback, right?
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like all everything that comes as data.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I feel like as a lot of consumers, like we have this blind trust, and especially in the beauty industry, I've never seen we have a lot of blind trust because we believe people and we believe influencers, and that's okay, you know, but at the end of the day, you have to look into a brand and and find the things that they're doing that are going to validate them for you personally.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: And if a brand can make that readily available, that just is it's just you know easier, I think, in the long run.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, I'm I really applaud you for doing that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I'm a huge fan, but I want to ask you, where can we find the Rudist?
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like where can we shop?
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you guys have your website, but what about any retailers?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are you available?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, absolutely.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I can't believe I didn't mention this earlier, but um, we are just super proud to be available at Sephora stores and online in the US and Canada, over 600 stores.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're available in a part of the store called Hair's Next Big Thing.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: Seeing it there for the first time was a huge pinch bee moment for me.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: And I I still haven't really quite gotten over it.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_01: We we haven't actually existed for that long.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: So the brand was launched online with Sephora in January, and then in stores, it just had started to begin to set at the end of February, but really kind of didn't finish the full rollout until mid to the end of March.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's June now.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: We're just babies out there.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: In the in the world.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: We're a baby brand.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: And we would love for people to go check us out in Sephora.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Go smell and touch and try the formulas for yourself.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_01: We love the support.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: We love the feedback.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: We are in listening and learning stage.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: And we very much appreciate anyone who's rooting for us.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: And at the same time, I said earlier, I think at the beginning, like we want to root for others too.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_01: So if there's any brand, founders or brands that are listening that have shared values and you'd like to collaborate and talk of about any of the topics that we talked about today, whether it's complete wellness and those approaches, whether it's you know, microbiome, whether it's fermentation or even just being more eco-minded, we we are part of the Sephora Clean and Planet Aware program.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we are super proud to have launched with them.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I think that they just publicly made um that new standard available in in April.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: And there's not a ton of brands who have been able to meet the standard um yet.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm super proud that we're able to straight away it launched.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I hope that it serves as an inspiration to try to create more, you know, more things that are going to be beneficial to consumers and the planet.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: Again, I don't we don't really use the term clean a lot, as we've talked about for a long time in the industry.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's a loaded term, but um, but we I think Sephora's standards on clean um and planet aware are really transparent and they're out there for anyone who wants to see it.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I think it's that that's good, and we're proud, you know, to have met them and even exceeded them in a lot of areas.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: I really love that.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, hats off to you and your whole team, Allison, honestly.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is really, really awesome what you're doing.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I think this is creating so many great options in in this category.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I really applaud you guys and really hats off to your chemists and your scientists on board because yeah, 70 iterations is is that's that's wild, you know.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: But but I mean they came up with something really phenomenal, you know, they really kind of nailed this.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm I'm just I'm really in awe of that.
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I I love it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love the brand so much, and and I'm so glad you guys are in the Sephora.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_00: If you guys are listening, anyone tuning in, if you're looking for new options, and I I'm genuinely telling you, like this is really, really hard-hitting, you know, brand.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I really encourage you guys, check them out, vote with your dollars, you know, go for the brands that are putting innovation at the front and center.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: You know, guys, we have to do that because at the end of the day, if we don't, you know, put keep pushing, then we are not going to come to a place where the things that are out here in the market are are gonna be, you know, actually usable in a in a realistic way.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_00: We're just gonna keep wasting money in the economy that we live in now, there's just no room for that anymore.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: So it has to be the brands that are, you know, really putting the thought in.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I really encourage everyone that tunes in, you know, let's do that.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's let's vote with our dollars and let's really kind of make an impact in that way.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I encourage you guys to check them out.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_00: I will link everything in the in the show notes for this episode.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but thank you, Allison, so much.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's been such a pleasure talking to you and learning from you.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh great conversation.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: You as well.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much.
• 47:15
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• 47:23
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• 48:01
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• 48:22
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