Latest / UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell / UnchainedTV: Meet The Ultimate Vegan Business Insider!

Transcript

UnchainedTV: Meet The Ultimate Vegan Business Insider! · UNCHAINEDTV'S Truth Files with Jane Velez-Mitchell

• 0:00
  You are meeting an extraordinary novelist, artist, and
• 0:05
  vegan investor and philanthropist.
• 0:08
  We are gonna learn all about the many,
• 0:12
  many projects J.D. Rash is involved in.
• 0:17
  And it's truly unbelievable to me how he
• 0:21
  is able to do so many things at
• 0:24
  once.
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  Just to give you an idea, this man
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  has helped so many vegan organisations and sanctuaries.
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  He started out as a banker.
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  Now he's working with Beyond Impact, which helps
• 0:39
  vegan companies like Wicked Kitchen and many other
• 0:43
  up-and-coming companies that are compassionate.
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  He's also written this trilogy called The Silver
• 0:50
  Forest, as well as this extraordinary artwork, which
• 0:55
  may seem familiar to you.
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  It's based on something very scientific.
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  So I wanna go straight out to J
• 1:01
  .D. Rash.
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  Please tell us about your work specifically.
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  Let's start with your novel and we'll move
• 1:12
  on to all your philanthropy.
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  What is The Silver Forest?
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  The Silver Forest is an ideal.
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  It's like an Eden.
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  And the book is based on the concept
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  of a return to Eden, return to our
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  basic principles.
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  And that's the trajectory that the main character
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  has to go through.
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  It's something that the wizards seek, the golden
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  tree and the silver forest, the tree of
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  knowledge, the tree of understanding.
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  And the question is, how do we get
• 1:47
  there?
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  How do we regain this innocence?
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  How do we regain the knowledge?
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  How do we regain the respect that we're
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  missing in this novel and I think also
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  in the world?
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  So how the heck do you have time
• 2:02
  to do that while at the same time,
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  you are doing so much extraordinary work in
• 2:10
  other areas?
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  Again, you are the ultimate vegan business insider.
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  You've worked with Beyond Impact, which you're a
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  partner there, helping so many vegan companies like
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  Wicked Kitchen, but many others, we're gonna get
• 2:26
  to that.
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  And you also are writing this trilogy.
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  This is book one, book two and three
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  coming.
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  And then you also do this art.
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  I mean, this is absolutely extraordinary.
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  Where on earth do you get the time
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  and the energy?
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  And you are quite an acclaimed artist at
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  this point, which I didn't realise knowing you
• 2:46
  in another world, I was Googling you and
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  I'm like, oh my God, this man's also
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  an acclaimed visual artist.
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  How the heck do you do all this,
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  Jody?
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  Yeah, well, you're one to ask, Jane.
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  You do quite a bit yourself too, but
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  it helps to have the fact that my
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  kids are grown.
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  So that freed up a lot of time
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  as they moved out of the house.
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  So that was part of it.
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  Part of it really is just an interest
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  and each different thing that I do, for
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  me, it's like an exploration.
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  You wanna discover things about the world, about
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  yourself, and there are just different ways to
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  do that.
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  So the art helps me think through issues
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  relating to the world.
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  So does the writing helps me think through
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  social issues.
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  And then the vegan investing and the philanthropy
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  are actually more directly helping the types of
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  companies that I think need to be around
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  in the world.
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  We need to, in order to accomplish the
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  things that will bring us to more fulfilment,
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  more understanding, a kinder, gentler world.
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  Well, let's talk a little bit about some
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  of those comments and those companies, and then
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  we'll get some callers on the other side.
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  So Wicked Kitchen, absolutely extraordinary company that is
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  turning mushrooms into steaks.
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  And of course, it's a compassionate company, but
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  it's also a very successful company that beyond
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  impact has really gotten behind.
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  Hey guys, welcome to the Wicked Kitchen.
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  Super special episode today.
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  I'm gonna show you three mind-bending mushroom
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  cooking techniques with three amazing mushrooms.
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  We're gonna make sweet chilli maitake steaks and
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  turn an alliance main into the super herbaceous,
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  flavorful steak that is gonna blow your mind.
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  And then also the Asian inspired barbecue brown
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  oyster mushroom, you guys.
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  You're not gonna wanna miss this.
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  Three amazing mushroom recipes coming your way.
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  So beyond impact got behind Wicked Kitchen.
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  What's the criteria you use for determining, well,
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  I'm gonna get back this vegan company versus
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  this vegan company?
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  Well, there's a number of different criteria you
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  use.
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  The first thing is, will it have an
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  impact on animal abuse and animal use?
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  And so that's our first test.
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  So obviously companies like Wicked are very good
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  on that.
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  But then it has to work from a
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  financial standpoint as well.
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  So we look at the founders, how motivated
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  they are, how much skin they've got in
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  the game.
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  We'll look at their business trajectory as well.
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  So expected earnings and market demand, things like
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  that.
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  And then we're a smaller fund.
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  So we generally get involved with the companies
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  initially at a very early stage and try
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  to help them build up so that they
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  can start attracting more and more capital as
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  they grow.
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  Wow, well, I wanna talk to you more
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  about that.
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  We've got some callers who are lined up
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  to ask you questions.
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  Tiffany in Los Angeles, your question or thought
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  for J.D. Rash.
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  Tiffany?
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  Okay, go ahead, Tiffany.
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  Tiffany, are you there?
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  All right, well, the next caller then.
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  Great, Niloufar.
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  Hi, considering your leadership role in investment and
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  sustainable finance, how do your clients and or
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  audience respond to discussions about veganism and investments
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  in vegan products?
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  J.D.? Well, I think, yeah, I think
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  it's necessary to invest.
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  I mean, I started off more on the
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  not-for-profit side and I served on
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  a few not-for-profit boards, specifically vegan
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  sanctuaries.
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  One was a veg fund, which gave grants
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  to entrepreneurs.
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  But then I thought, we can tell people
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  they should go vegan, but if the products
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  aren't there, it makes it very difficult.
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  So how do you fill that need for
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  the products?
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  Because there definitely is demand.
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  People are very interested in it for a
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  lot of different reasons.
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  Obviously, a lot of them are for ethical
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  reasons, which is basically why I got involved
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  in it.
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  But there are also a lot of people
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  who like the vegan products for health or
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  environmental reasons as well.
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  So the fund that I originally started, which
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  I turned over to somebody else, we were
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  one of the first investors in this space
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  because basically our backer liked the idea of
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  actually making things available to people, making products
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  available to people.
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  And the good thing about it is, if
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  your investments do pay off or at least
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  a certain portion of them, then that you
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  feed back into the ecosystem and it creates
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  more and more companies.
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  So that's what I would tell them the
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  reason to invest in vegan products is, one
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  is it's a growing market, but also it's
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  needed if veganism is going to take root
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  and we're gonna make it as easy as
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  possible for people to switch.
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  Interesting.
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  There's so much there because vegan products have
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  been under attack by the mainstream media lately.
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  And it seems like there's an article that
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  comes out every day trying to knock either
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  alternative proteins like a plant-based burgers or
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  restaurateurs.
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  If somebody gets into trouble like Sam Bankman
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  Freed, it's always, oh, he's a vegan, he's
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  a vegan.
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  Well, what about all the people who are
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  criminals who are eating meat?
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  Nobody mentions the fact that they eat meat.
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  It's absolutely ridiculous.
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  It's really an unfair comparison or what I'd
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  call selective indignation.
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  But let's go to our next caller, Lindsay
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  in Woodland Hills, your question or thought for
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  JD Rash.
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  Yes, my question is a little unusual perhaps.
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  I'm wondering how feasible it is to open
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  vegan restaurants, small ones perhaps in areas that
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  are rural or there's just really no vegan
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  options at all.
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  Do you think that it's possible to open
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  vegan restaurants in areas like that?
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  Good question.
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  Having never lived in a rural area, basically
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  growing up in New York, I'm not sure
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  what the demand is there for that.
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  I mean, when you travel out of the
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  main cities into the outlying areas and rural
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  areas, you can see that there is certainly
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  a need for that.
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  I mean, the city is running rampant in
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  many of those communities.
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  So there is a need for it.
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  I think the answer is, it depends on
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  how you present it to the community and
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  what types of foods you present.
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  So the first thing I would do if
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  you're looking at doing that is finding out
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  what the local cuisine is and then figuring
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  out how to veganize it and then try
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  to market it as good healthy alternatives to
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  what they have.
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  Because if you just basically try to sell
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  people on some type of food that like,
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  do like a Beyond Sushi out in rural
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  Arkansas, that probably won't work.
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  But if you come up with your vegan
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  baby back ribs, I think you have a
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  better chance of making it successful.
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  And in terms of like starting up smaller
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  like restaurants and things like that, it's great
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  if you can get kind of local people
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  involved in investing in it because then they
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  spread the word and they'll eat there, they'll
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  get their friends to eat there.
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  And you have, I think a really good
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  chance of being successful that way.
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  All right, we've got another caller for you.
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  And this one is Tiffany in Los Angeles.
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  Your question or thought for J.D. Rash,
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  the ultimate vegan business insider.
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  Hi, Jane, thank you for taking my call
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  and I'm excited to get your new book
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  or your book.
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  I wanna check it out.
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  And I love your work with Wicked.
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  They even have it in my local bonds
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  now.
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  So that's very exciting.
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  And I wanted to ask you, what made
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  you make the connection to the animals to
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  go vegan since you were in business?
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  Sounds like you're in regular banking business.
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  So I was wondering what made you make
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  that connection?
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  Yeah, I became vegetarian back in 1983.
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  And I'd like to say it was my
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  idea to do it, but I have to
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  congratulate my wife on that.
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  She read a phrase, be the change you
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  wanna be.
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  And she just decided eating meat was something
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  that she didn't wanna do.
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  And you're right, I was working in finance
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  at the Fortune 500 companies.
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  And it's like, yeah, you can do that,
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  but in the world I live in, it
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  can't be done.
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  And that lasts for about six months.
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  And then I said, I just not comfortable
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  eating the meat.
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  Just admitting that my wife was right about
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  that and admitting that my wife is right
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  has been why we've been married for 40
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  years.
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  And so I just did it.
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  And it wasn't, the sky didn't fall.
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  It wasn't as earth shaking as people thought.
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  It was actually relatively easy to do.
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  At the time I would even take clients
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  out to steakhouses and I researched which one
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  had the best vegetarian options.
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  And then about, I guess it was about
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  17 years ago, my wife and I were
• 13:22
  going up to Canada.
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  I had some work up there.
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  And so we drove up and someone told
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  us about Farm Sanctuary.
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  So we stopped there and it was pouring
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  rain, like mud knee deep.
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  And we got the tour with our three
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  kids and they started talking about the dairy
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  industry and the egg industry.
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  And one of my daughters who was 10
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  years old at the time looked at us
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  after the tour and said, I'm going vegan.
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  And it was one of those times where
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  I figured, well, I could try to talk
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  her out of it, but yes, she's right.
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  And so that's how I became vegan.
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  And then I knew all this stuff about
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  finance.
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  So the question is, how can I make
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  my day job match what my philosophy was?
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  And one of the things that I thought
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  was really interesting, later on, I started getting
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  involved in business.
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  I was working at Moody's Corporation, a big
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  rating agency.
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  And I convinced them to do alternative ratings,
• 14:33
  non-financial rating, specifically environmental and social.
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  So we were doing ratings on microfinance banks.
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  And those are banks that give small loans
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  to poor entrepreneurs.
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  And we were doing a conference on that.
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  And it was Moody's, Deutsche Bank and New
• 14:50
  York University.
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  And we were gonna have about 300 people
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  and it was like a three-day conference.
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  I remember being on the phone and my
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  boss was on it, guys from Deutsche Bank
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  and NYU.
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  And they said, you know, microfinance is all
• 15:06
  about our social justice and doing good.
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  So maybe we should make the catering conform
• 15:13
  to that as well.
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  And my boss who knows me says, you
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  want this to be vegan, don't you?
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  I said, absolutely.
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  And they did and people loved it.
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  This is like 300 people for three days
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  and everything from the pastries to the lunches
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  and the dinners we always did, it was
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  all vegan.
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  And the only complaint we got is one
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  guy didn't like the fact that there was
• 15:40
  only soy milk for his coffee.
• 15:43
  Well, yeah.
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  And I just think that's how change happens
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  where you stick your neck out.
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  You know, as a banker and myself having
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  been in mainstream media, when you start sticking
• 15:54
  your neck out, it's a risk.
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  But the rewards when you have a response
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  like that are enormous.
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  So hopefully you convince some people there that
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  it's not such a big deal to eat
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  products that don't have animal parts in them.
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  I mean, it's that simple.
• 16:13
  We've got another caller, Michelle in Los Angeles.
• 16:15
  Your question or thought for J.D. Rash.
• 16:18
  Hi, I wanted to know your opinion on
• 16:21
  cultivated meat and how you think that may
• 16:24
  further the plant-based movement.
• 16:28
  Yeah, I mean, I think it's important.
• 16:31
  I've over the course of years invested in
• 16:34
  a lot of cultivated meat companies.
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  You know, initially there were some ethical issues
• 16:40
  that they use bovine serum to start the
• 16:47
  growth process of that.
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  But most of the companies have been able
• 16:51
  to get beyond that and their products don't
• 16:54
  require the killing of animals.
• 16:57
  You know, it's a product that's really not
• 17:00
  meant for people like me.
• 17:01
  I mean, I'm not interested in it, but
• 17:03
  I don't have a problem with it from
• 17:06
  an ethical standpoint.
• 17:07
  And if it can get people who are
• 17:10
  eating and killing animals now to switch over,
• 17:15
  I think it's important.
• 17:17
  I think it's still a number of years
• 17:19
  off from being at the point where it
• 17:22
  will be competitive to the traditional meat business,
• 17:27
  but the science certainly is there.
• 17:29
  And, you know, it's just more getting efficiencies
• 17:32
  of scale, I think at this point.
• 17:36
  Okay, Karen in Venice, California, your question or
• 17:39
  thought for J.D. Rash.
• 17:43
  Hi there.
• 17:44
  Sorry, the connection is tough.
• 17:46
  Thank you so much for what you're doing.
• 17:48
  I have a question about guidelines.
• 17:51
  Do you have any quick guidelines that you
• 17:53
  can share with us for somebody wanting to
• 17:55
  start a vegan business as far as getting,
• 18:00
  you know, investors and et cetera, you know,
• 18:03
  just some quick, easy ones that we can
• 18:05
  follow?
• 18:07
  Yeah, sure.
• 18:07
  I mean, the first thing is do your
• 18:10
  market research because, you know, the investors are
• 18:13
  going to look into this.
• 18:14
  And if it's not a viable market, and
• 18:17
  it's not a big enough market, then the
• 18:22
  investors are not going to be interested in
• 18:23
  it.
• 18:24
  You also need to know what type of
• 18:25
  business you want to start.
• 18:28
  So if you're going to a venture capital
• 18:29
  business, like venture capitalists, like we are at
• 18:34
  Beyond Impact or other venture capitalists, what they're
• 18:38
  going to want is they're going to want
• 18:40
  an eventual exit.
• 18:41
  So you're going to have to grow.
• 18:43
  And you're going to have to, at some
• 18:44
  point, figure out how you get out of
• 18:46
  this, either selling it, going public, things like
• 18:48
  that.
• 18:50
  If it's more of a lifestyle business, and
• 18:52
  I ran my own company for like 15
• 18:54
  years, it was a financial training company, and
• 18:57
  it was a lifestyle business, which is fine.
• 18:59
  But you can't raise venture money because you
• 19:03
  want this to earn a living, and you
• 19:04
  can make a very good living out of
• 19:06
  it.
• 19:07
  So understand first what type of business you're
• 19:10
  going to do, do your research on it.
• 19:14
  And then if you need money, understand that
• 19:18
  there are different types of investors who go
• 19:21
  into one type of business than another type
• 19:23
  of business.
• 19:24
  But the key is, you know, if you
• 19:26
  wouldn't invest in this, and that's one of
• 19:27
  the things they're going to ask is, have
• 19:29
  you put any of your money in this?
• 19:31
  Because if you don't have skin in the
• 19:33
  game, then it's really easy for you to
• 19:34
  walk.
• 19:35
  So every investor is going to say, well,
• 19:37
  what have you put in?
• 19:38
  And it doesn't have to be a million
• 19:40
  bucks.
• 19:40
  You know, it depends on your situation.
• 19:42
  It just has to be something meaningful, given
• 19:45
  your personal situation, that you're not going to
• 19:48
  just get up and leave and walk out
• 19:51
  and leave the investors high and dry.
• 19:55
  I've got a very special guest who wants
• 19:58
  to say something to you.
• 19:59
  But first I'd like to play a clip.
• 20:01
  As I've mentioned, you've helped a lot of
• 20:04
  sanctuaries, Woodstock Farm Sanctuary and Rowdy Girl Sanctuary
• 20:09
  in the heart of Texas cattle country.
• 20:12
  Let's watch a little clip of Renee King
• 20:15
  -Sounan, the founder of Rowdy Girl Sanctuary.
• 20:18
  And then we'll join her on the phone
• 20:20
  because she would like to say thank you
• 20:21
  for all the help you give her.
• 20:23
  All right, this is Buster.
• 20:25
  He's like, I guess going on eight weeks
• 20:27
  old for two months.
• 20:29
  And I've heard say he looks like a
• 20:31
  chocolate brown lab, which he does.
• 20:35
  He was surrendered by a cattle rancher that
• 20:41
  fell in love with this baby.
• 20:44
  And we are extremely grateful that that cattle
• 20:49
  rancher had a change of heart and loved
• 20:51
  this sweet child named Buster.
• 20:55
  The reason why he called him Buster is
• 20:57
  because he will bust right into you with
• 20:59
  his nose when he's eating.
• 21:02
  Like that.
• 21:04
  Anyway, oh, like that.
• 21:06
  If you'd like to sponsor, adopt Buster, we
• 21:10
  would love that.
• 21:11
  If you'd like to donate today on behalf
• 21:14
  of Buster or become a member, it'd be
• 21:16
  a great time to do that.
• 21:17
  Buster, cows live to be about 20 years
• 21:22
  old or more, you know, 20 to 25
• 21:24
  years in the real world without being slaughtered.
• 21:28
  So Buster here will be living a long
• 21:31
  time if everything goes well.
• 21:34
  Thank you guys and peace out from Rowdy
• 21:36
  Girl.
• 21:37
  All right, let's go straight out to Renee
• 21:40
  King-Sonnen in Texas, the heart of cattle
• 21:44
  country.
• 21:44
  She's a former cattle rancher.
• 21:48
  She and her husband went vegan and turned
• 21:49
  their calf-cow operation into a vegan farmed
• 21:53
  animal sanctuary.
• 21:54
  Renee?
• 21:56
  Hi, Jane.
• 21:57
  Hello, Jody.
• 21:58
  So great to see you on Unsanctioned.
• 22:00
  Hey, Renee.
• 22:03
  Hi, I just wanted to call.
• 22:06
  I saw, you know, that you were gonna
• 22:08
  be on the show and I was like,
• 22:10
  I am so thrilled.
• 22:12
  I couldn't be happier to see this.
• 22:14
  You are somebody that's just always been behind
• 22:17
  the scenes, like Jane just said a while
• 22:20
  ago, kind of on the inside, always looking
• 22:23
  in at what we do and just big
• 22:26
  support.
• 22:28
  You guided us, you directed us, you supported
• 22:31
  our campaigns and just been an amazing friend.
• 22:36
  I can always count on your insight, your
• 22:38
  advice.
• 22:39
  And when I heard about your book, I
• 22:42
  think it was like a year ago when
• 22:43
  you sent me the whole manuscript, I was
• 22:45
  over the top because of all the people
• 22:48
  in the world, you are the one of
• 22:49
  the most well-rounded people.
• 22:52
  I mean, you are creative, you're brilliant, you're
• 22:54
  a mathematician.
• 22:56
  I mean, like, you know, you're just, your
• 22:58
  left and your right brains are so well
• 23:01
  -balanced.
• 23:03
  Anyway, and I'm just really, really grateful you're
• 23:05
  in our corner and I wanna say thank
• 23:07
  you.
• 23:07
  The animals thank you.
• 23:09
  Oh, that was beautiful.
• 23:11
  Jody, tell us how you work with Rowdy
• 23:14
  Girl Sanctuary and how you help various sanctuaries.
• 23:18
  Yeah, well, mutual friend put me in touch
• 23:22
  with Renee.
• 23:24
  I was trying to think, you know, when
• 23:26
  we're looking at investing, one of the kind
• 23:30
  of, what I think are kind of one
• 23:31
  of the dumber questions you get asked, and
• 23:34
  we all know that there are a lot
• 23:35
  of dumb questions that we get asked, was,
• 23:38
  you know, you're gonna, if everyone went vegan,
• 23:40
  then, you know, you put all these farmers
• 23:42
  out of business.
• 23:43
  And, you know, we don't expect everyone to
• 23:46
  go vegan overnight, although it would be nice,
• 23:48
  but, you know, how do you deal with
• 23:51
  those types of situations that this will be
• 23:53
  displaced?
• 23:53
  So I started looking at, well, maybe we
• 23:57
  can use, the farmers have assets, they have
• 23:59
  the land, and so is there an alternative
• 24:05
  use for that?
• 24:06
  And Rowdy Girl Renee was also looking to
• 24:08
  that with their Rancher Advocacy Programme.
• 24:11
  So we got put together, and I started
• 24:13
  initially doing advisory work with her on the
• 24:18
  RAP programme.
• 24:19
  And we worked with some of the ranchers
• 24:21
  who wanted to do conversions, and, you know,
• 24:24
  there were business plans to be done, financing
• 24:27
  to be arranged.
• 24:28
  So I helped out on all of that.
• 24:31
  I mean, Renee is fantastic.
• 24:32
  She's got so much energy that she put
• 24:34
  into all this stuff.
• 24:35
  So, you know, it was really fun to
• 24:37
  help her.
• 24:39
  And since then, you know, running a sanctuary,
• 24:42
  she's asked me to be an advisor on
• 24:44
  their finance committee.
• 24:46
  So I helped them out with the finance
• 24:48
  committee meetings and budgeting and things like that.
• 24:51
  And all the fun stuff of taking care
• 24:53
  of the animals, other people do.
• 24:55
  I get to look at numbers and look
• 24:57
  at balance sheets and all that kind of
• 24:59
  stuff.
• 24:59
  But, you know, for people like me, that
• 25:01
  can be fun as well.
• 25:03
  And I'm also on the board- How
• 25:05
  are these transformations going?
• 25:09
  And Renee's got it with her organisation, Agricultural
• 25:14
  Fairness Alliance, and then there's Mercy for Animals
• 25:16
  Transformation.
• 25:18
  I just attended their 25th gala anniversary where
• 25:21
  they spoke about that.
• 25:23
  What is happening on that front?
• 25:25
  Are animal producers transitioning to plant-based and
• 25:30
  if so, at what level?
• 25:33
  Yeah, I would say it's, honestly, it's slow.
• 25:36
  I know Miyoko is also working with dairy
• 25:40
  farmers to convert to oats for her products
• 25:43
  as well.
• 25:44
  The problem is each farmer is like a
• 25:49
  unique case so that what they produce will
• 25:53
  depend on local situations.
• 25:55
  A lot of times they have loans that
• 25:58
  they got from the meat companies that ties
• 26:02
  them in.
• 26:03
  So, you know, everyone's kind of working on
• 26:06
  it and you get successes and sometimes, you
• 26:11
  know, there's nothing that you can do.
• 26:12
  So it will be great is if there
• 26:17
  was like one organisation where it all could
• 26:20
  be put under an umbrella and they can
• 26:22
  get a budget and work with the farmers.
• 26:26
  I think there's a big enough demand.
• 26:29
  There's just, it's just a hard nut to
• 26:32
  crack with this.
• 26:34
  But, you know, there are a number of
• 26:36
  success stories and everyone that you can get
• 26:38
  to convert to something else, I think is
• 26:41
  positive.
• 26:43
  Well, you mentioned something that I think is
• 26:45
  really significant and that is that the meat
• 26:48
  industry locks these farmers in.
• 26:51
  They become almost like indentured servants.
• 26:53
  They have to buy the grain.
• 26:55
  They don't own the animals often themselves.
• 26:59
  They're pitted against each other in tournaments.
• 27:02
  So who can produce the animals the fastest?
• 27:05
  And it's very cutthroat from what I've heard.
• 27:08
  Is this the case?
• 27:10
  Yeah, well, I mean, Renee knows more about
• 27:13
  the actual industry than I do.
• 27:15
  I just know, you know, one of the
• 27:16
  farmers that we were working with her, they
• 27:21
  had a bank loan and in the bank
• 27:22
  loan, it specifically said that the property had
• 27:28
  to be used for animal production.
• 27:31
  So the bank was kind of liberal in
• 27:33
  not foreclosing, but, you know, you've got a
• 27:36
  million dollar mortgage and you're just, you're thinking
• 27:39
  about going to something else, the bank could
• 27:41
  come in tomorrow and totally close you down.
• 27:44
  Plus they had loans to the chicken companies
• 27:48
  as well that they needed to pay off
• 27:51
  if they're gonna do this.
• 27:52
  So, you know, they certainly don't make it
• 27:54
  easy.
• 27:55
  Yeah, and I guess my point is that
• 27:57
  the big industries, the big conglomerates make a
• 28:00
  lot of the money, but from what I've
• 28:02
  heard and just exploring this, not being an
• 28:05
  expert, but exploring it to a certain degree
• 28:07
  is that a lot of these quote unquote
• 28:09
  farmers are basically food processors dealing with giant
• 28:14
  warehouses and they're not making the money.
• 28:16
  They're sort of just sort of living hand
• 28:19
  to mouth with all the loans and everything
• 28:21
  else.
• 28:21
  It's the big conglomerates that are making the
• 28:26
  money.
• 28:27
  And I don't know, Renee, if you're still
• 28:28
  on, what are your thoughts on this?
• 28:35
  Oh, we gotta have you on again, sorry.
• 28:37
  Get closer.
• 28:40
  I'm right here, can you hear me?
• 28:41
  Great, we can hear you now, perfect.
• 28:43
  Yeah, yeah, I was just gonna say, you
• 28:45
  know, the transitioning the farms is until the
• 28:51
  government, our government does something to help farmers,
• 28:56
  but for individuals and nonprofits and, you know,
• 29:00
  and investors to try to do this work
• 29:03
  is, it just doesn't work.
• 29:06
  I have done everything to try and I
• 29:08
  won't keep trying to do it individually anymore
• 29:12
  with individual funding.
• 29:14
  It's just not at all, it's not sustainable.
• 29:18
  It doesn't make any sense.
• 29:19
  But what I do do is I work
• 29:21
  very, very, very aggressively with the Agriculture Fairness
• 29:25
  Alliance to do whatever we can possibly do
• 29:28
  there to help change, you know, legislation because
• 29:33
  unless we are doing that, you know, it's
• 29:36
  just really, really hard.
• 29:37
  These farmers need the same fairness.
• 29:40
  They need the fairness that all these other
• 29:42
  farmers get for all these egregious bailouts and
• 29:45
  insurance fraud and everything else.
• 29:47
  So that's the way I look at it
• 29:50
  now.
• 29:50
  It's been, it's pretty much beat me down.
• 29:52
  It's been really, really tough to see just
• 29:55
  and feel just how difficult it really, really
• 29:58
  is.
• 29:58
  Well, it seems to me what you're saying
• 30:00
  is that the government is subsidising the meat
• 30:04
  and dairy industry.
• 30:06
  For example, if animals die as a result
• 30:09
  of a disaster, they're treated like widgets.
• 30:12
  They're just replaced like a government insurance.
• 30:14
  And so that's really an unfair playing field
• 30:19
  because the government's propping up the industry, the
• 30:22
  meat industry.
• 30:23
  Is that what you're saying?
• 30:24
  It is an unfair playing field, and it
• 30:27
  is the playing field.
• 30:29
  That is the game.
• 30:30
  And they have all the power.
• 30:32
  They have all the money.
• 30:34
  You know, they have all the resources.
• 30:38
  And it's just really incumbent upon all of
• 30:41
  us out here that are vegans, that love
• 30:44
  animals to really get behind Agriculture Fairness Alliance
• 30:47
  and help them.
• 30:49
  I mean, because AFA is doing whatever they
• 30:52
  can.
• 30:52
  I mean, we just can't keep trying to
• 30:55
  transition farms one farmer at a time with
• 30:58
  individuals' money.
• 30:59
  It's just, you just can't do it because
• 31:01
  these farmers to your point are usually indentured
• 31:04
  servants and they just don't have the way,
• 31:07
  they don't think like business people typically.
• 31:10
  And so they need a lot of help.
• 31:15
  Well, this is a fascinating conversation.
• 31:17
  We should have more of it.
• 31:19
  One aspect of all the work that not
• 31:23
  just Renee King-Sonin of the Rowdy Girls
• 31:25
  Sanctuary, and please support that sanctuary.
• 31:27
  It's an amazing, amazing sanctuary, but also Jodi
• 31:31
  Rash does.
• 31:32
  And again, we're bouncing around a little bit
• 31:35
  because you do so much.
• 31:38
  And I just got to hit a couple
• 31:40
  of other aspects of your amazing work.
• 31:44
  As part of- I love y'all,
• 31:46
  I gotta run.
• 31:47
  All right, thank you, Renee.
• 31:48
  Thank you.
• 31:49
  Bye, Renee.
• 31:49
  As part of what you're doing with Beyond
• 31:52
  Impact, you are supporting and pushing cutting edge
• 31:57
  companies.
• 31:58
  Now we discussed cultivated meat for a second,
• 32:01
  but there's also something called bio-identical meat.
• 32:05
  And there's a company called Paleo that Beyond
• 32:08
  Impact has supported.
• 32:11
  We interviewed the head of Paleo.
• 32:14
  Here's a little clip because what they're doing
• 32:16
  is truly, truly revolutionary.
• 32:19
  Hermes Sanctorum, who is the CEO and co
• 32:22
  -founder of the food tech startup, Paleo, has
• 32:25
  come up with a revolutionary product.
• 32:28
  It doesn't just taste sort of like meat.
• 32:31
  It is, and correct me if I'm wrong,
• 32:33
  bio-identically equal and the same as meat,
• 32:38
  but it does not come from animals, so
• 32:40
  it's also vegan.
• 32:42
  We are totally animal free because we, in
• 32:44
  fact, just use information.
• 32:46
  I mean, there is information available of DNA
• 32:51
  from animals that is historically built up, that
• 32:56
  information.
• 32:57
  And in fact, when you know the sequence
• 33:00
  of DNA for a certain protein, for a
• 33:02
  certain compound that you would like to make,
• 33:04
  you just insert that piece of DNA in
• 33:08
  a yeast and that yeast starts producing the
• 33:11
  protein that you want it to produce.
• 33:13
  That's basically it.
• 33:14
  So you start from information, you make a
• 33:16
  small part of DNA, you add that to
• 33:19
  a yeast, and magic, you have your protein
• 33:23
  that you would like to have.
• 33:25
  So tell us about this aspect of the
• 33:28
  all-protein market that doesn't get a lot
• 33:30
  of publicity.
• 33:31
  It's extraordinary.
• 33:33
  It's meat that is completely vegan by copying
• 33:38
  the DNA sequence?
• 33:41
  Yeah, I mean, with meat, it's fairly unique,
• 33:45
  but this process has been used for, actually,
• 33:50
  it's been used for thousands of years.
• 33:53
  That's how wine is made.
• 33:55
  You have yeast that turns the sugar into
• 33:58
  alcohol, and by controlling the yeast, you can,
• 34:02
  by engineering the yeast, you can have it
• 34:05
  turn proteins into something else.
• 34:09
  Other companies do that for making eggs, making
• 34:14
  milk, so they'll replicate the proteins.
• 34:18
  Paleo is one of the few that's doing
• 34:20
  it for meat.
• 34:22
  But it's an interesting process.
• 34:24
  So the main processes of doing this conversion
• 34:28
  is either cultivation, where you start out with
• 34:32
  cells from the animal, or this fermentation process,
• 34:36
  where through the yeast transformation, you make the
• 34:39
  DNA and the cell structure that you need.
• 34:43
  So that would actually be a vegan product.
• 34:46
  It would not be a product that has
• 34:48
  any animal.
• 34:50
  It's simply copying sequences and putting in plant
• 34:54
  proteins that will then, in turn, create the
• 34:58
  DNA structure of meat.
• 35:00
  Right, that's right.
• 35:02
  Wow.
• 35:03
  To me, that is one of the most
• 35:05
  fascinating aspects of the alternative protein story, and
• 35:09
  I really would be excited to see that
• 35:12
  come to market, and I can't wait.
• 35:15
  Christina in Los Angeles, your question or thought
• 35:18
  for Jodi Rash.
• 35:20
  Hi there.
• 35:21
  I called in just when you all were
• 35:23
  talking about subsidies from the government.
• 35:27
  So I guess I won't be asking about
• 35:30
  that, but apparently that is a major issue
• 35:34
  and challenge, correct, for plant-based products.
• 35:38
  So I guess I'll stick my question to
• 35:41
  something else.
• 35:42
  I keep hearing that we're trying to get
• 35:44
  cutting-edge investment companies involved in alternative plant
• 35:48
  proteins.
• 35:49
  I'd like to get insight, if it's not
• 35:53
  already been discussed, about how do we utilise
• 35:57
  what has traditionally been used in the investment
• 36:00
  world of investors and stock folks who create
• 36:07
  this hype over certain technologies or products or
• 36:11
  new methods of manufacturing.
• 36:14
  I mean, they create this to get everybody
• 36:17
  on board.
• 36:18
  In the past, I mean, whether it's legit
• 36:20
  or not, and they create this to get
• 36:23
  publicity and to, it's partly educational, right?
• 36:27
  Now everybody's reading about their stock portfolios.
• 36:31
  I mean, can we also do that for
• 36:33
  all these alternative plant-based protein industries and
• 36:38
  companies and use the same sort of trick
• 36:41
  or phenomenon that's been used in investment world
• 36:45
  for centuries?
• 36:47
  Thank you.
• 36:47
  Go ahead.
• 36:48
  Thanks, Christina.
• 36:51
  Yeah, I mean, I think we are using
• 36:54
  the techniques.
• 36:56
  I mean, we're using venture capital that's going
• 36:59
  into this market is actually not just vegan
• 37:06
  funds or funds that specialise in it.
• 37:09
  You have mainstream investors who are in this,
• 37:13
  what Bill Gates said, the future of food
• 37:16
  is vegan.
• 37:17
  So it is getting that hype, but just
• 37:19
  like any area that gets the hype, the
• 37:24
  question is, do you create bubbles?
• 37:26
  And so that's kind of what's going on
• 37:28
  with vegan companies right now.
• 37:30
  I think as Jane said, you said before,
• 37:33
  I think a lot of the vegan companies
• 37:35
  are being attacked somewhat unfairly, when they start
• 37:39
  talking about Beyond Burger and it's not healthy.
• 37:42
  Well, it certainly is.
• 37:45
  And they really admit it.
• 37:47
  It certainly is healthier than the alternative, but
• 37:49
  then they say, well, look how many ingredients
• 37:51
  they have.
• 37:53
  Yeah, that's true.
• 37:53
  But none of those ingredients are meat and
• 37:56
  meat is only one ingredient, but it has
• 37:58
  huge ecological and health costs to it, not
• 38:04
  to mention ethical costs.
• 38:05
  So just because it's one ingredient doesn't mean
• 38:08
  it's healthy.
• 38:08
  I mean, I wouldn't need an arsenic burger.
• 38:10
  That would be one ingredient as well.
• 38:12
  So those types of attacks are somewhat disingenuous,
• 38:15
  but we have to weather those.
• 38:18
  And right now the investment market is, particularly
• 38:22
  the venture capital market, there's a lot of
• 38:25
  contraction in that market, which is hurting companies
• 38:28
  that need money to grow.
• 38:30
  But I think that's beginning to come to
• 38:33
  an end.
• 38:34
  So people kind of be loosening up their
• 38:36
  purse strings a little bit more and it
• 38:38
  should be getting to be a little bit
• 38:40
  easier for these companies to raise money.
• 38:43
  Yeah, and I was just over at Beyond
• 38:45
  Meat headquarters.
• 38:46
  Unchained TV is putting together a profile that's
• 38:49
  coming out soon.
• 38:49
  They have a new 4.0. And what
• 38:53
  I said was, look, processed meat is officially
• 38:57
  cancer causing.
• 38:58
  Okay, so anything that's an alternative to processed
• 39:01
  meat is much healthier.
• 39:04
  And so you're dealing with a product on
• 39:06
  the one hand that's a carcinogen, and the
• 39:09
  other hand is a bunch of vegetables mushed
• 39:12
  together.
• 39:13
  And nonetheless, they've decided to take the challenge
• 39:18
  and come up with an even healthier product.
• 39:21
  And it's called Beyond Meat 4.0. It's
• 39:23
  hitting the store shelves and I tried it.
• 39:26
  It's absolutely delicious.
• 39:27
  It has 75% less saturated fat than
• 39:31
  an average burger.
• 39:32
  And it's just really delicious.
• 39:34
  So I think that's a great response to
• 39:38
  criticism.
• 39:38
  Just say, okay, yeah, you want it healthier?
• 39:40
  We'll make it even healthier.
• 39:43
  And I think that's the kind of response
• 39:45
  that's going to win out in the end,
• 39:47
  right, Jody?
• 39:49
  Yeah, absolutely.
• 39:50
  I think the vegan market is going through
• 39:52
  various changes.
• 39:54
  The first thing was just have anything out
• 39:56
  there.
• 39:57
  And you'd have burgers that come out of
• 40:01
  a cardboard box.
• 40:02
  You weren't sure which you should eat.
• 40:04
  And then they went to, I would say,
• 40:06
  Vegan 2.0, where the products tasted good,
• 40:10
  but in order to get them to taste
• 40:11
  good, they had probably more fat and salts
• 40:16
  and things like that than you needed.
• 40:18
  And now we're going through, I think, the
• 40:20
  next phase where people think that vegan is
• 40:24
  healthier for you.
• 40:25
  It is, but now I think what people
• 40:28
  are looking for is even healthier vegan alternatives.
• 40:33
  And that's why what you said about what
• 40:35
  Beyond Burger is doing is great.
• 40:37
  And I think there's going to be more
• 40:39
  and more companies that are going to be
• 40:41
  coming out that are offering vegan options that
• 40:44
  truly are healthy and tasty.
• 40:48
  Are you concerned at all about the state
• 40:51
  of the vegan business world right now, given
• 40:55
  that, and I was in mainstream media for
• 40:57
  more than three decades, and I know a
• 41:00
  concerted attack when I see one.
• 41:03
  When Beyond Meat went public in 2019, it
• 41:06
  was the most successful IPO since the 2008
• 41:08
  financial crisis.
• 41:10
  It skyrocketed.
• 41:11
  Everybody was talking about it.
• 41:13
  Well, of course, it couldn't sustain that high
• 41:15
  level.
• 41:16
  And as you said, you create a bubble
• 41:18
  with all that excitement, and then it's like
• 41:21
  you build them up and then you knock
• 41:23
  them down.
• 41:23
  That's what the media does.
• 41:24
  It does that with celebrities.
• 41:25
  It does that with some companies.
• 41:27
  Where do you see vegan business, let's say,
• 41:31
  in five years?
• 41:35
  Yeah, I mean, I think that fundamentally the
• 41:38
  concept of vegan foods and other products and
• 41:42
  vegan investing is solid.
• 41:45
  Like you said, it goes through its ups
• 41:47
  and downs.
• 41:48
  It's in a down phase right now because
• 41:51
  of some of the media hype.
• 41:54
  But I think coming out with these new
• 41:57
  products that actually are healthy will help overcome
• 42:01
  that.
• 42:01
  I think there's a huge pent-up demand
• 42:04
  for healthy products.
• 42:07
  And quite honestly, if you have animal products
• 42:10
  in it, it's not healthy, no matter what.
• 42:13
  So I think there's a huge potential demand.
• 42:16
  So I think five years is probably a
• 42:18
  good timeframe to look at some of the
• 42:21
  companies that are in this market now, I
• 42:24
  think really exploding.
• 42:25
  The thing that I'm most concerned about is
• 42:28
  getting them through the next year, year and
• 42:30
  a half, because the availability of investment funds
• 42:35
  has been a challenge.
• 42:39
  Tom Vansell asks, what's the best vegan investment
• 42:42
  to make?
• 42:43
  That would be great to know.
• 42:44
  You know how Motley Fool says, if you
• 42:48
  had $1,000, you should invest in, well,
• 42:52
  let's play that game.
• 42:54
  Well, the first problem is that most vegan
• 42:57
  companies, except for like Beyond Meat and some
• 43:00
  of those, you have to be an accredited
• 43:03
  investor, which is a strict legal definition.
• 43:07
  I think it's income of over $200,000
• 43:10
  for the last two years, or net income
• 43:14
  of over, I think it's a million dollars.
• 43:17
  I'm not 100% sure what the rules
• 43:19
  are.
• 43:20
  So if you're not an accredited investor, you
• 43:22
  have very limited opportunity to invest in non
• 43:27
  -public companies.
• 43:29
  So there is a index out there called
• 43:34
  VGN, vegan, that- I think it's V
• 43:38
  -E-G-N.
• 43:39
  Yes, you're right, V-E-G-N, that
• 43:43
  basically invests in publicly traded companies that don't
• 43:48
  specifically use animal products.
• 43:51
  And they also, whatever publicly available plant-based
• 43:55
  companies, they also invest in them.
• 43:57
  And they've tracked the S&P 500 quite
• 44:00
  well, in fact, have outperformed it.
• 44:03
  Now, Beyond Impact, which I'm associated with, they
• 44:06
  didn't come up with it, but the woman
• 44:08
  who started Beyond Impact, the fund, this was
• 44:12
  an idea that she had, and that she's
• 44:14
  made this very, very successful.
• 44:18
  So that's, at this point, if you're not
• 44:20
  an accredited investor, the best way to do
• 44:23
  it.
• 44:23
  If you are an accredited investor, typically putting
• 44:26
  your money in a fund like Beyond Impact
• 44:30
  would be the way to go because you
• 44:32
  get diversification.
• 44:34
  But just remember, when you're investing in venture
• 44:36
  capital, you only invest as much as you
• 44:38
  can afford to lose.
• 44:40
  So this is not something you put your
• 44:41
  401k in or other money that you need
• 44:44
  for retirement.
• 44:45
  This is money that if all the companies
• 44:48
  crash and you totally lose it, it's like,
• 44:51
  you're not happy about it, but it's not
• 44:53
  going to impact your lifestyle.
• 44:55
  Yeah, and I guess full disclosure, I didn't
• 44:57
  know we were gonna talk about VEGN, but
• 44:58
  I have a little of VEGN just as
• 45:01
  a disclosure.
• 45:02
  Okay, here you go, your art.
• 45:05
  Yes.
• 45:05
  It's absolutely extraordinary, and it's based on what?
• 45:10
  The underlying imagery for all of my art
• 45:13
  is based on scientific themes.
• 45:15
  So the ones you have here, the one
• 45:17
  on the left is based on a galaxy,
• 45:20
  and the one on the right, I believe,
• 45:22
  is a white blood cell.
• 45:23
  So the main themes that I use are
• 45:26
  physics, radio astronomy, and electron microscopy.
• 45:33
  I branch out somewhat from those areas as
• 45:36
  well, but I've actually, after many, many years,
• 45:40
  I've gone back, I'm actually talking to you
• 45:42
  from my studio.
• 45:43
  I've gone back to school to get my
• 45:45
  third degree.
• 45:47
  I have a BA in economics, I have
• 45:49
  an MBA in finance, and now I'm going
• 45:51
  for my MFA in painting.
• 45:54
  All right, well, you're making me feel bad.
• 45:55
  By the way, I'm the oldest student in
• 45:57
  the class.
• 45:59
  You're making me feel bad.
• 46:01
  I'm gonna get cracking on that piano and
• 46:03
  that French that I always say I'm gonna
• 46:04
  learn, and I never do.
• 46:06
  Caribbean.
• 46:07
  Yeah, and I just wanted to throw up
• 46:09
  some of the other companies.
• 46:11
  There are many that Beyond Impact has helped.
• 46:15
  Now, some of them we've heard of, like
• 46:17
  Wicked Kitchen's quite well-known, but some of
• 46:19
  them are a little less well-known.
• 46:24
  What is the statistical chance of any company
• 46:26
  succeeding?
• 46:27
  Like, sometimes people are saying, well, a lot
• 46:29
  of these vegan companies aren't succeeding.
• 46:31
  First of all, the ones that have succeeded,
• 46:33
  like Tofurky, like Daiya, like Violife, like Silk
• 46:37
  Soymilk, I could go on and on.
• 46:39
  They've been acquired by big conglomerates.
• 46:42
  Is that not the case?
• 46:44
  Yeah, yeah.
• 46:45
  So the basic rule with venture capital is
• 46:47
  that half the companies you invest in will
• 46:50
  go bankrupt.
• 46:51
  So you'll lose everything on them.
• 46:53
  And then another 10 to 20%, you'll either
• 46:57
  break even or you'll make a little bit
• 47:01
  of money or lose a little bit of
• 47:02
  money on them.
• 47:03
  So what you're looking at really is maybe
• 47:06
  10% of your company.
• 47:08
  So one company in 10, that's gonna be
• 47:12
  a big winner.
• 47:14
  And what they say is half your advertising
• 47:18
  is worthless.
• 47:20
  You just don't know which half.
• 47:22
  It's kind of like the same thing in
• 47:23
  venture capital is that you know that 80
• 47:27
  % of your companies are not gonna give
• 47:28
  you a return, but you just don't know
• 47:31
  what 80%.
• 47:32
  So you go into these companies, you hope
• 47:35
  for a Beyond Burger or one of those
• 47:39
  is in your portfolio.
• 47:41
  So you just gotta look at the different
• 47:43
  industries, where the potential is and take your
• 47:46
  chances, which is why I said, this is
• 47:49
  not a field for the faint of heart.
• 47:53
  You need to, people go into this, they
• 47:56
  understand the risks.
• 47:57
  If they end up losing it all, that's
• 48:00
  life, they go on.
• 48:03
  If they get one hit out of that,
• 48:06
  that could give them 20, 30% return
• 48:09
  on their total investment.
• 48:11
  So that's what they're looking for.
• 48:13
  Yeah, it's funny because people always say, well,
• 48:16
  if you had invested in and then they
• 48:18
  named these companies, whether it's Amazon or Apple,
• 48:20
  way back when, way back when we didn't
• 48:23
  know which ones were gonna be the big
• 48:26
  ones.
• 48:27
  So- Well, look, given that I have
• 48:29
  the book out, I'm glad Amazon did well.
• 48:31
  Yes, well, let's get back to that.
• 48:33
  The Silver Forest, I have an advanced copy.
• 48:37
  You can order it now on Amazon.
• 48:39
  I've been diving into it.
• 48:41
  It's really fascinating.
• 48:43
  And this is the first of a trilogy.
• 48:45
  And I expect you wanna turn this into
• 48:47
  a movie at some point, right?
• 48:50
  I would love to.
• 48:51
  I would love to.
• 48:52
  So if you've got any contacts in that
• 48:54
  business, Jane, let me know.
• 48:57
  Again, I'm just flabbergasted at the incredible amount
• 49:01
  of accomplishments you have across the board.
• 49:04
  So many different things, but everybody get this.
• 49:07
  It's available on Amazon for pre-order.
• 49:09
  It's coming out very soon.
• 49:11
  And I really hope that everybody supports this.
• 49:15
  Again, this is somebody who has done so
• 49:17
  much for our movement, is always giving to
• 49:19
  others, always helping other organisations.
• 49:23
  So let's give him a little boost and
• 49:25
  order and read his book.
• 49:27
  And I gotta tell you, I think it's
• 49:29
  absolutely fantastic.
• 49:31
  We've got one minute.
• 49:32
  What are your final thoughts?
• 49:33
  What would you like to tell people in
• 49:35
  general about bringing this all together?
• 49:41
  Yeah, I think, you know, in order to
• 49:43
  really make veganism more mainstream, you have to
• 49:47
  attack it from a lot of different areas,
• 49:51
  which is, I guess, one of the reasons
• 49:52
  why I ended up doing so many different
• 49:55
  things.
• 49:56
  And, you know, just like the book, I
• 49:59
  think what was important for me is that
• 50:02
  the main character is vegan, but I don't
• 50:05
  make a big deal about that.
• 50:07
  It just happens to be the way he
• 50:09
  is.
• 50:09
  It's just natural.
• 50:10
  And so there's not big discussions about veganism
• 50:13
  and all this stuff in the book.
• 50:14
  It's just part of a normal life.
• 50:17
  And that's what I think we need to
• 50:19
  do.
• 50:19
  So we need to take a lot of
• 50:21
  different and disparate areas, investing, art, writing, and
• 50:27
  just make it part of the community.
• 50:30
  I love what you just said.
• 50:32
  It's not a big deal.
• 50:34
  It's just what he is.
• 50:35
  And hopefully everybody will get that message that
• 50:39
  it's not like a conversion to some extreme
• 50:44
  group.
• 50:45
  It's just, you know, a healthy, compassionate way
• 50:48
  of living that we can all embrace.
• 50:50
  It's a joyous adventure, not a sacrifice.
• 50:54
  And thank you so much, Jodi Rash.
• 50:57
  I also wanna urge everybody, please download the
• 50:59
  Unshamed TV app.
• 51:01
  It is 100% free.
• 51:02
  It is the world's only vegan streaming television
• 51:05
  network available on your phone.
• 51:07
  You just put Unshamed TV right into your
• 51:10
  app store and download it for free.
• 51:13
  It's also free to watch on any TV.
• 51:17
  It's on all Samsung TVs and on any
• 51:19
  TV with Amazon Fire Stick, Roku device or
• 51:22
  Apple TV device.
• 51:23
  So please download Unshamed TV and join our
• 51:26
  happy, joyous community fighting for animals, speaking for
• 51:31
  them because they can't speak for themselves.
• 51:33
  See you next.