Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / A Breakdown of Tap Dance Styles

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A Breakdown of Tap Dance Styles · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_00: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tap dance comes from a rich tradition of sharing steps, passing down rhythms from generation to generation, and thanking those who came before us for their teaching.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: The conversation about tap dance is ever evolving.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And Making the Impact is joined today by tap educators Aaron Parkhurst and Jason E.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: Bernard to share their thoughts on whether tap dance can be categorized by style, and if so, how that can translate onto the competitive stage.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Hello everyone, welcome to this week's episode of Making the Impact.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here with my co-host Leslie Mueller.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey Courtney, happy Halloween.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, Halloween! Wow, can't believe it's already here.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I have no idea what I'm gonna be.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's spooky season, and I'm just excited to watch Hocus Pocus on repeat and Hocus Pocus 2.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, Hocus Pocus 2 is coming out.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, I love that.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_01: I need to watch it.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, Halloween is here, and the dance season is in full swing, everybody.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that everyone is training nice and hard, getting those competition routines prepped and ready, and maybe you are getting ready for convention season coming up, which is in full swing as well.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yay for that.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Over here in IDA World, we are hard at work getting prepped for the upcoming competition season.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: So shout out to all of the people who submitted to be joining our roster on IDA.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: We have really appreciated everyone's support over there, and we've brought on a lot of new judges for this upcoming season, and we're really excited for that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: And uh on this week's episode, we are talking tap dance, y'all.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited about it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: We did a tap dance episode in season one that was a huge hit.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: If you haven't listened, go back and listen.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that was just a general overall discussion of tap dance, but now we're bringing it back.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: We have two new guests on, and we're gonna talk about breaking down the different styles of tap dance.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, what does that even mean?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's different styles?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: What?
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Are there?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: We'll find out on the podcast today.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we're super stoked to have these guests on.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: They are professionals and experts in their field, so super excited to get to that.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do, I haven't, I haven't really had a chance to chat about the Platinum Premium membership that we launched this year.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: We are so happy that we've had so much support for this membership.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_00: It is a new subscription-based platform that it's for the Die Hard Making the Impact fan.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: If you want to help support our podcast, membership perks include access to our QA live episodes, which are releasing monthly to our Platinum members only, priority to have your questions answered on our QA's, add free listening for all of season four, free stickers mailed to you and your dancer.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, my stickers are all over like everything: my computer, my water bottle, my my backpack, all the things, actually the patches of my backpack.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: But we are so grateful for our Platinum Premium members, which we have gotten a ton over the first couple of months here that we've been releasing it.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: So I wanted to give a shout out to a couple of our new members.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Jennifer Philitico, who is a dance parent with the Dance Workshop in Monroe, Connecticut.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: They said this has been a very educational podcast for a dance parent, especially one who was never exposed to dance before my daughter started.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you, Jennifer.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: We're happy to provide uh this education for you guys.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then also thank you to Court Hanley, who's a dance teacher with Mad Studio in West Bath, Maine.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: They say, appreciate this podcast so much.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: More, more, more.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: And we've got more for you.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's coming.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We've got tons of great episodes coming this season.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if you want to join Platinum Premium membership, head over to our website to join.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's$5 a month, or you can pay a one-time fee for yearly access.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: Visit our website at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com/slash Platinum Premium to subscribe now.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Are you looking for the perfect gift for your dancer this season?
• 4:15
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• 4:18
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• 4:23
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• 4:34
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• 4:40
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• 4:46
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• 4:54
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• 4:59
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• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: Alright, everybody, we're jumping into this week's episode, and like I mentioned, we're talking tap today, and I'm super excited to welcome two brand new guests to our podcast.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: The first guest is a very close friend of mine.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: I have the honor of teaching alongside him at Revel Dance Convention.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: He is on the TAP faculty there.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Aaron Parkhurst to the podcast.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Aaron.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_05: Hey, Cor.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_05: Thanks for having me.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're welcome.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: And yay, New York City.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: You're like pri it's like you should have come over or you could have come down the street and sat right next to me because we live next door to each other.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, I really thought we were gonna have a fireside chat.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_05: I was really excited about this.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: My tiny apartment is not a recording studio just yet.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So we're doing this remotely.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm love working with you at Revel.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: And when we were doing this episode and thinking about who should we bring on, I was like, Aaron, I'm sure has so much to say on this.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I can't wait to hear what you have to bring to this discussion with your expertise.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So if you wouldn't mind sharing with the world out there a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you trained, and any career credits you'd like to share and what you're working on now.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_05: So yeah, my name is Aaron Parkhurst.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_05: I grew up in Albany, New York, upstate New York.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_05: I'm a I'm a New Yorker born and bred.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_05: I grew up a competition kid.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_05: So I from the age of three to when I graduated high school, I was training, competing.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_05: My family grew up dancing at the same studio at Eleanor School to Dance.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_05: And uh training-wise, I mean I've had a plethora of you know tap teachers.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_05: Um my my home studio, Christy Panalone was one of my teachers, Barbara Prechant was one of my teachers, Chris Panalone was an assistant, and uh she grew up dancing from Debbie D.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_05: I don't know that a lot of people might know who Debbie D is, and if you don't, you should.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_05: I grew up training with her as well when she was uh teaching on conventions when I was younger.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_05: And then Anthony Morgerado and I grew up dancing at the same studio, so he started teaching at a really young age, and I had the opportunity to uh train with him for a long time.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, I could run the the roster of names of dancers and professionals that I've uh trained with, but you know, this is this is a short podcast, so we're just gonna keep it we're gonna we're gonna keep it a little short so it's not uh not running and running and running.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_05: So I mean, credits.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, you name a tap show, like a book show, musical, and I probably have done it.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_05: 42nd Street, my one and only, White Christmas.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_05: I've done like review shows uh in like Deadwood, South Dakota for a uh company called Matt Davenport Productions based out of Nashville, Tennessee.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_05: I've done a national tour and an international tour of a show called Tap the Show that was choreographed by Mike Minery.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_05: We've traveled to all 50 states in the uh continental US, we've gone to Hawaii.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_05: I've traveled uh Europe with a uh group called the Tap Factor, led by Christopher Urk, and we would perform on um cruise ships, um doing basically uh hour-off shows of like tap review shows, um historical shows, kind of like giving a broad basis of that.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_05: Uh currently I am a teacher, and uh I travel four days a week in New Jersey and Long Island teaching at various studios, choreographing for dance competitions.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_05: I travel with uh Rebel Dance Convention, uh trap teaching and training dances across the US.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_05: And uh currently I am primarily just teaching choreographing.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_05: I have some other like business ventures that I can't yet speak on because they're not quite ready to be announced yet.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_05: But some things uh specifically tap dance-wise.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_05: I have some flooring ideas for tap dancers um with floors specifically for dance conventions, and then I also have some ideas in the works for creating a more well-versed dance scene for hiring.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_05: Kind of a little bit of like an IDA, but not for dance competitions, for primarily um training and teaching across the country.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_05: Connecting dancers and teachers together that maybe would never have that connection um because they don't know who each other is.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_05: So everything there's some developments that are in the works and just kind of like ironing out the details, but uh announcements to come.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: We'll have to have a little business chat, Aaron.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So exciting.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so excited to have you on this episode.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_05: I'm excited.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right, and our next special guest is joining us today, usually from New York City, but actually coming to us from Spain.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, so exciting.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I've had the opportunity to teach alongside him at an intensive and just loved his work, have admired him.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: He is also on faculty with LA Dance Magic Dance Convention.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Jason E.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: Bernard to the podcast.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jason.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Courtney.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, thank you.
• 9:51
  unknown: Yay!
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: So pumped to have you, and thank you so much for sitting down while you are in beautiful Spain to record a podcast.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: Seriously.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: My pleasure.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: You all are worth it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: You all are worth it.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Tap dance is worth it.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: Tap dance is worth it.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_03: Nice job, Lazar.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Jason, if you wouldn't mind sharing a little bit more about you, where you grew up, where you were trained, any career credits, and what you're working on.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: So, like Aaron, I'm an OG New Yorker.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: New Yorker.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: Born, raised, and live.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_03: I started dancing at the age of six.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I started at Ruth Williams Dance School.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: She was a dance partner with Henry Letang.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then when I think like a year later or two years later, I went to the Dance Theater of Harlem.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: And it was like a full-on like ballet curriculum.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_03: But I really like just moved towards the tap even more.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_03: And we had a tap teacher.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: Her name is Rachel Seckey.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: She's still there.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_03: She's the ballet master there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even think she teaches tap anymore.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_03: So I got it at a really good time.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_03: And then I left there and like Aaron, I just like started studying with a whole bunch of teachers and at the perfect time.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: I studied with Phil Black, who was predominantly a jazz teacher, but he also taught tap and he swung, which was so pretty.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: And then I studied with uh Jermaine Goodson.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I just like started studying with my friends, but those were like my main four teachers.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I started performing really.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: I never really performed.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_03: And so I auditioned for Bringin' the Noise, Bringing the Funk.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: That was my first audition, first show.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, yes.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: And then I did Bamboozled with Savion and Spike Lee, the movie.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_03: And then I did River Dance.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then I did Cotton Club Parade, aka After Midnight.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And that's pretty much it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, like different things.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: But now I'm pretty much teaching and I love it.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: It's like my life and my love.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: Other than that, I'm choreographing a lot of pieces and choreographing for myself, which is so fun, you know?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you gotta really kind of get that negotiation thing with yourself, you know, like let's make this happen, let's do it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, that's pretty much what's what's the buzz, what's uh happening.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: So great, so great.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I love both of y'all's experience in many different ways as far as who you've trained with, but then also taking that into the professional world and navigating tap dance in different types of shows and I'm sure different styles of tap within those shows.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ooh, we're gonna talk about all of those things.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_01: So excited.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you both for joining us today.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Let's jump on in, Leslie.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm so excited.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: When both of you kind of named a few shows that you've done, and and I would say, I mean, and y'all know too, you're in the convention circuit in the competition world.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, people can sort of name off your Chicago's, your Hamilton's.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Like we can pull people can pull out musical theater shows kind of in that in those genres.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: But Jason, you mentioned bringing the noise, bringing the funk.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is like a heavy niche tap show that was only around for a short period of time back what in the 90s, early 90s.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain to our listeners what kind of show was that?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of tap dancing is that compared to something Aaron mentioned, 42nd Street, which I think a lot of our listeners can get a picture in their head of what kind of tap dance that looks like.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain what bringing the noise, bringing the funk is like, and then we can jump off into like styles?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_03: Definitely.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: So bringing the noise, bringing the funk, I guess the best way to describe it, it was polyrhythmic.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: That is, I mean, I guess the best way.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Dive deeper.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: I would say yes, dive deeper.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_03: I would say that that means that a lot of steps technically can't like be identified as like a Shirley Temple.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, because like we're just like remixing it to like a Turley Schemple.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know what it means.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we're not going fully ball chain shuffle hop step, right?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: In bringing the noise, bringing the funk, like you would in 42nd Street.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you may go like falla shuffle hop step and then kind of reverse it right away.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's kind of I would also kind of describe it as like a ping pong match, a tennis match.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: You're like kind of just hitting the ball and seeing like where it goes, but making sure you catch it.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just um Yeah, I don't know.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: I I guess that's how I would describe it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: Cool.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so comparing that, Aaron, can you describe a little more of what a 42nd Street tap show is like in terms of comparing it to a ping pong match?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, yeah.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, so uh a 40 second street, I mean, if anyone was to go and see 42nd Street, they'd be like, oh, it's a tap dance show, which yes, they are tap dancing.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_05: I would probably break it down to say it would be like fall under the theme of Broadway.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_05: I hate categorizations in tap dancing because I feel like it limits what the observer is going to witness.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_05: And they're going, they're going in with a predetermined idea of what it is that they're going to see.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_05: But 42nd Street, like you said, it's a lot of repetition.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_05: It would be a lot of three in a break.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_05: It would be a lot of a lot of, you know, you would do a rolling shuffle, like in the audition scene in the beginning.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_05: It's a lot of just like hopship, hop, shipple, hop, shipple, hop, shuffle, hop, shipple, hop, shipple, hop, shipple, stand.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_05: And then you reverse it on the other side.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's a I don't want to say it's more simple, but to an observer who maybe does not have the knowledge of tap dancing, I think it's more absorbable in their brain and for their like the less complexity, the more they can comprehend, the more they can understand and then appreciate.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_05: Now, bring in the noise, bring in the funk.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_05: If I were to go see bring in the noise, bring in the funk, I would appreciate it because I appreciate like the intricacy of you know what Jason's talking about of like the ping pong match.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_05: I hear what Sadieon is doing, and then you know what anyone else who's gonna be having an issue, like if Dormitia was in the show or Jason was in the show, uh, and they were gonna have that conversation with Sadie on, I can appreciate that and understand it.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_05: Where grandma, who's coming in from, I don't know, Texas, and she's visiting her daughter in New York and she's like, oh, let's go see this tap show.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_05: She's gonna appreciate what they're doing, but she's not gonna comprehend what they're doing.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_05: If she went and saw 42nd Street, she's still not gonna understand it, but it's a little bit more simplistic for her to be like, wow, those rhythms were like really cool.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_05: It's also more showy.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_05: 42nd Street from the waist up, like they had precision arms.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_05: It was a little bit more of like a ballet jazz incorporation into the style of what's happening.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_05: So the overall picture of 42nd Street just has a completely different feel to where bring in the noise, bring in the funk.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_05: Again, an amazing show, but it's more rhythm and music based in the dancing.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's just like you have to go in with an open mind of appreciation and really like dive into what it is that the artists are doing.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_05: And like, like when I watch jazz music, like a jazz musician play, I am flabbergasted at like the runs that they're doing or like everything they're doing.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_05: And I feel like sometimes that appreciation is lost when people are watching it, they're like, oh, okay, yeah, they held that note out for four bars, or oh, they that that was a tight little mix on take the A train.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_05: And it was like, no, no, no, but do you really understand what it is that they're doing?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right, because that's really, really hard.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, yeah.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_05: Like like that, like that music and like the amount of training that they've gone into to be an expert in what it is that they're doing and not have a mess up and to like feel I don't know.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_05: It's just like I would I would say I appreciate both.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_05: And I would also ask, you know, the viewer that is going into both of those shows to really have a comprehension of what it is that you're watching and the effort that is going into it and appreciation for there's different styles, and there's nothing wrong with that.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_05: And I also don't even really like to say that there's styles because I feel like it boxes people in to not have that exploration of the appreciation for the art.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I want to say that you kind of when you were talking about your the reference to the jazz musician and them being an expert to be able to do this, the same thing to me is what's happening in this disc like this comparison, not saying that 42nd Street tappers are not experts.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_01: You are an expert in that style, but I think there's an even and more elevated person that can execute this other type of tap.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: That, like, I mean, there is no way in the world that I could be in bringing the noise, bringing the funk at like in my life.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: There is no way that I could do that.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: But I could definitely, with my tap training, get through 42nd Street.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_05: Also, I don't know that anybody knows.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_05: Courtney Ortiz is an amazing tap dancer.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_05: She likes she likes to masquerade like she's not, but she's she's taken she's taken multiple classes of mine and she hangs in the back.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_05: She's like, you know, incognito, you don't see what she's doing.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_05: That girl can tap dance.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I can't tap dance at that level.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I would love to come take your class, Jason, and see if I could do it because I'm struggle city in Aaron Parker's class.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be real.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: My brain's working a mile a minute.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: But like, I could do it.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: It just takes me a little bit longer because I obviously don't tap as often as I used to, but like a style like Savion, I don't think I could do it.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's just it's a different way of tap dancing that I think that like through I I definitely think more dancers could probably achieve 42nd Street style than they could a Savion style tap, if that makes sense.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's like where the comparison can be discussed because it's like specific breeds of tap dancers.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: Like you guys are at such a high level of tap dance, like you two experts over here, where you could, you know, dabble in either.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like then there's people who are like on the intermediate level, like me, where I'm like, there's no way I'm touching Savion.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my, I could never.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, Jason, yeah, do you want to do you want to touch on like the music, like the music, you know, the musicality, the music theory that is now you're because now you're diving into a whole different realm of like Savion's a musician.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_05: He doesn't think of himself as like a tap dancer.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_05: He puts his shoes on and it's an instrument that he is now like speaking through.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_05: And so like Jason, I mean, go off run with that.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, I think so many things.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think like the I'll call it a style just for you know um understanding's sake, but like this the difference in the styles for me, I just think of it like as I'll just use English to just say like it's English, but it's just a different dialect.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just a different dialect, it's just from the south, and like you know, we're from the north, right?
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and so it's just like a matter of like being around, you know, that kind of talk, you know, because I go to Louisiana a lot.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's where Courtney and I first met.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I love the accent.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: I take it on.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: As soon as I get in there, I kind of just like you know, take on the accent.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I just think it's a matter of that, and as I mentioned earlier, like, you know, the steps are in there, like all the Shirley Temples are in there.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_03: And also another thing that's like a little tricky sometimes, if you will, is just like getting connected with a specific person's style, also.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: Because even though, like, this, if you will, it is kind of another style, but then the person you learn from is gonna have another style too.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: So again, it's just like learning different dialects and or a different language.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_03: I think the other thing I wanted to say is that I don't know if you know, but I am like the biggest Broadway fan ever.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: So, like the irony of like, you know, like hoofing and swinging in Broadway, I do it all the time.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so what I try to do a lot is blend it.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, for example, I'll dance to like 42nd Street all the time, but I'm like you know, so putting it in there can also be a Broadway style because I'm dancing tap and a Broadway like song.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: But also, I think sometimes like the whole idea of like Broadway versus like hoofing or rhythm has gotten like a little skewed because for example.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jelly's Last Jam was on Broadway and they were tapping in that, so that's Broadway tap, you know what I mean?
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: Technically, it's Broadway tap, but is it what you think of when you think of Broadway tap?
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: And another thing that you mentioned, uh Courtney, uh, in reference to Aaron, like dancing like more of a Broadway style, 42nd Street, it's so hard.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_03: It is so hard.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because I danced with Henry Letang and he did a lot of three in a breaks.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_03: And by the end of that, I was more exhausted than like, you know, just like swinging and hoofing in a different kind of way because it's all like, it's always moving, you know, and at the end of it, and you're doing over the tops and trenches, and it's very physical.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like a whole kind of different thing.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_03: So I'd like to, you know, think that if we can all just like kind of blend our minds on believing on what we are, you know, physically, mentally, and emotionally capable of doing and put that like headspace in it, and then it's possible.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: And then like you've added another dialect to your language.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think like ballet, like different styles of ballet.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like it's all ballet.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: And that's why we were when Courtney I were talking about this, I was like, I'm pretty sure they're all just gonna say we teach tap dancing because that is that's really what it is.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's all tap dancing.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you put you put your little swing on it, you know, you put your dialect on it.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: I asked, I literally asked Aaron.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, all right, hold on, we gotta go ask Aaron.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: We're like casting this podcast.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, okay, let me see what Aaron Parkrest has to say.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And and I was like, Aaron, what what style of tap do you consider yourself like what is your specialty when you teach?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: What do you technically think that style style it is?
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: And what did you say?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_05: I sent her a three-minute voice memo on my dissertation on I teach tap dancing.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: Which which she held up to her voice memo and and played your voice memo for my voice memo and then it got sent to me.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: So Aaron said amazing.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_05: You responded with, yeah, and that sounds like something you would yeah, but I'm pretty sure that was exactly what I intended, you know, anticipated you saying to me.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's about right.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think it's it's interesting.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm you guys might know this uh friend of mine, Richard Riaz Yoder, who's a tap dancer in New York City.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: Shout out, Richard! Shout out to Richard Yoder, he's been on the podcast.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: He was on the podcast last year.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: He's in Greece, like living his best life right now.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: But he so he was in Shuffle Along.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: And at the time he was in Shuffle Along, I was still auditioning.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: I was auditioning for 42nd Street.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's been in a thousand forty-second streets.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, Richard, can you just can you give me a little tutorial on like 42nd Street?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: So we're doing the audition combo.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I noticed, so he and I went to school together.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we trained together.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at school at OCU, we tap danced, we started 5678, right?
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: Dan dancers all over the world, 5, 6, 7, 8.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: He started saying one, two, three, four.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: One, two, three.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: He was counting in fours.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, that feels different.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Well, this is what tap dancers do.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: He was more in the bars of music, and I was like, that's so intriguing because that's just another sort of dialect of how different styles of tap dance.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, Savion does this, and even more so, Savion doesn't even give you a count.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's just trying to give you some scats, and you're like, oh God, please let me.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Is this a five, six, seven?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what are the counts?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, can y'all share a little bit more about when you teach?
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: How do you teach in terms of counting, scatting using terminology?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do it all?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you do one thing?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: All those things.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, sure.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_03: I think I actually count one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: So I could pretty much do go straight through.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: And also, I think like I always try to customize and adapt to where the student is, where anybody is.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_03: And then once like, you know, then we like start to speak.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_03: So just always meeting someone where they are.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_03: And also um with my students, I always say you can count it, you can say it, you can scat it.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: And um so I've been at LA DM for three years now.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_03: And uh the whole first year, I just had everyone counting like one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, eight, seven, six, five, four, three, two, one, two, four, six, eight, nine, six, four, two, one, three, five, seven, seven, five, four, one, three, one.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, that's hard.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's challenging.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_03: I got mixed up.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then seven.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then seven, right?
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: Is that the number after the odd number?
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And then I also and then I also had everybody singing A B C D E F G H I J K L L M L P and a Q R S and a T U V and a W X and Y N Z.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_03: And now I know my A B C Z and the next time, won't you sing with me?
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_03: M1.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: So just all those things.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_03: Someone mentioned nursery rhymes or earlier.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_03: But um, I don't just make it up.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: But uh also like just singing a lot of nursery rhymes, you know, all just getting all those because they're all the same thing, like uh it'sy but spider, twinkle, twinkle, little star.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so just same rhythm.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_03: Same rhythm.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: So just going back to that commonality, really just going back to preschool and kindergarten.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel that if generally speaking, everyone operates from the kindergarten to preschool like place, you're pretty good, you know, because it's a nice solid foundation, and then you can just like uh slip in between the slots there.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um so I do that, and uh now a lot of my uh students they're all scatting.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're all scatting.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: And just a lot of that was just a matter of just surrendering, just knowing that scatting it like may sound silly, yeah, I guess, whatever.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: But can you give an example for some we have a lot of parents who listen who are not dancers themselves?
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Could you give me an example of a short tap phrase with with counts, with steps and with scatting, so they understand what you mean by all of those things?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_03: So let me see.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_03: Paradiddle, paradiddle, paradiddle, paradiddle, double on the right, double on the left, step, step one yenna, two yenna, three, yenna, four, yenna, five, yen, a six yenna, seven, yana, eightyenna, shagadugle, baga do go, shiga digga, baga, daga, shugo, dega, gaga, daga, digga, google, ga, ga, something like that.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, beautiful.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_01: You nailed that.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then, I only need one cake.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_02: I'll do that in the game.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: One shot, Sally.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_02: Here flip.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, so and that's also a thing, you know, with teachers, like you said, meet them where they are.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: If they don't know the terminology, they could hear one E and a two E and a three E and a four E and a.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's even too far gone, dig a duga, digga, duga, dig-a-duga, you know, like you gotta meet them where they are.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: Especially in a convention setting when you're working with dancers who have been trained in so many different ways and you don't know what they're used to.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know what's happening in their studio.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's like where if you are in a studio weekly, then you can cater to how you want that class structured a little bit more.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: But like that's what makes it hard, especially for top teachers at conventions.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I like I've said, I've I've taken the class, I've stood in the back and I'm watching, I don't know how y'all do it.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's so loud, like the kids are stomping all over, half the kids are on carpet, and then you're trying to.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: In Leotard.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what's happening?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_05: Doing aerials in the back.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_05: Right, right.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh Lord.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Cartwheels in the back, and then you're just trying to get them to at least just know where the beats at.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, like basic music theory, and that's I mean, and I I hope that as like dancers who are listening or dancers who do go to conventions and maybe they don't do tap all the time at their home studio.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_01: I hope that you do take tap class to at the very minimum get a little bit stronger at your musicality and understanding music because that's really what like we're talking about here.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Tap is about being a musician and it really gets you in tune with where the downbeat is and what the rhythm is and learning different types of rhythms and ways to look at it.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that uh people can do that.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Can you give us a little bit of a rundown of what what you how you teach with your counting or scatting or whatever?
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, so gr I mean, growing up, I was definitely, you know, it was it was five, six, seven, eight, you know, before the phrase started.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_05: As I, you know, grew older and I was training with other teachers, that's where the musicianship and like, you know, we're making music came into play.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_05: And then one, two, three, four started, you know, getting implemented.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_05: I, I mean, to be very honest, I am always flip-flopping, you know, back and forth.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_05: It's like ingrained in me to say five, six, seven, eight.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_05: And I need to like always be focused on like, okay, we're gonna do one, two, three, four.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like, even a little bit what Jason was touching on, it's you have to kind of meet the student in the middle, and you need to kind of like for example, being at a dance convention, when I am, you know, I'm training these kids, I don't know who their weekly teacher is.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, some of the, you know, returning clients, yeah, sure, we have a rapport, but like a first-time kid that is coming to Revel or, you know, any class of mine, I don't know how they're trained.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_05: Um, so I am going to facilitate it in the way of maybe you don't count five, six, seven, eight, but let's try one, two, three, four, because it's just four different numbers.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_05: I am I'm also a big proponent with like Jason said, if you can say it, you can do it.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_05: And that means the terminology, that means the scatting.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_05: I'm also a huge proponent, and any studio that I go to, they will know I bring dry erase markers.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: Nice.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_05: And on the mirrors, we will like, let's say we're gonna do a we're gonna do an AABA break going from side to side.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_05: I will write out the actual steps on the mirror and then say this is A on the right, this is A on the left, this is the break that we're going to do, and then we're gonna go back to the A.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_05: And they all will get a dry erase marker, and on top of learning the step, they will now have to write out the musicality and the note structure underneath the step.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_05: So let's say we were gonna do like a waltz clock, flap shuffle, but chain, flap, shuffle, but chain, full-lap, flap, and then you do it on the other foot, and then you do the break.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_05: Once they learn the step and they're comfortable with it, now they'll go to the dryer, you know, they'll go to the uh mirror and they will write out a one, a two, a three, a four, a five, a six.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_05: And if they don't understand a one, we're going to have a discussion on what an eighth note is.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_05: We're gonna have a discussion.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_05: Are we are we swinging it or is this straight?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_05: Why is this?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_05: Why, if you don't comprehend it, you're not gonna be able to do it.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_05: And then once they, and this could be a four-week process.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_05: This could be a four-week process of just them learning what a waltz clog is, then doing what just talking music theory on what an eighth note is or what a quarter note is, how do they relate and correlate to the step that they're learning?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_05: And then now you have to piece it together.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_05: Now you have to do the waltz clog.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_05: You have to actually say a one, a two, a three, a four, a five, a six, or scatting it.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_05: They always feel foolish, and like I'll actually really appreciate what Jason said, which is you need to surrender.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_05: Like you can't, no, you, but you, you know, you have to, you can't, you can't go into it like huddled and you know, like closed off and feeling stupid.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_05: Like anyone who's ever taken my class, and I know Jason does this when he teaches in New York and also at LADM, who cares?
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_05: So like if I sound funny saying like zada the da do bada the ah, what does it matter?
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_05: If it locks the rhythm into your body and it makes you like understand that rhythm, what does it like?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_05: Who cares?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like, be silly.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_05: Let's all be silly and like make fun of ourselves and sound ridiculous as we're saying it.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_05: But if it makes you understand like a swung eighth note and you can do, you know, you can do a you know, a waltz clog, great, then we've we've successfully got you to do it.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_05: And what does it matter?
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_01: I'm yeah, I'm glad you use the waltz clog as an example because I feel like that uh a lot of dancers struggle with knowing when to enter into a step within the A count.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if it's like a one, they don't understand it's a one, they just think one is first, and there can't be anything before one.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: But there is sometimes things before one.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's the a one and a two, all like all the things in between in the counting, and if that's not ever being really laid out by the teacher, it can be hard for dancers to really comprehend.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's even an option.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then when they become teachers, then they're never gonna, you know, it needs to be needs to be taught somewhere because even like the music theory aspect, I mean, I think that there should be more of that happening in in class.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't even know, like I love what you were saying about the w what writing it out for the kids.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes that visual and even just the writing aspect is gonna be that light bulb for for them to really understand the rhythms.
• 34:32
  SPEAKER_05: One of the I mean, one of the uh studios that I teach at on a weekly basis, I, you know, I did like a little like testing on this theory.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_05: And so the first the first week of September when they came into class, I basically gave them a homework assignment of like you're going to go to Staples and you are going to buy a notebook, and you're gonna buy a pen, and this is your tap notebook.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_05: And every week I expect you to show up to class with your instruments, which is your tap shoes and your notebook and your pen.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_05: And so, and I basically like the first like four weeks, we basically just like gave them kind of like a you know, a cue card, you know, of like what is a flap, what's a shuffle, what's a toe heel, what is a cramp roll, what is a pullback, and then they would break down what the actual step is, and like in their notebook, you know, a flap, it would say two sounds, the foot striking forward, putting weight on the foot, and then what is a shuffle?
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_05: And so if I ever basically referenced, let's say I wrote out a waltz clog on the board and I wrote flap shuffle ball change, and then Susie, who was absent for two weeks, and she comes back and she's like, Well, what are we working on?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_05: I was like, Well, we're doing waltz clogs, and she's like, Oh, I don't know what a waltz clog is.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_05: I would say, well, go to your book and what is a flap, what's a shuffle, what's a ball change?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_05: And then so, no, you know what a waltz clog is.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, you just don't know what the terminology is.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you don't know that you know.
• 35:55
  unknown: Right.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_05: Um, you know, and so I and honestly, it it worked.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_05: And they basically by the end of the year, like all of the AABA breaks or like any like rudiment exercise that I did with them, they could go back and reference rather than being like, you know, they raise their hand and be like, you know, Aaron, I don't know what we're doing.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm like, no, like you know what you're doing.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_05: You just it's the the information's not soaking into you.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_05: And then musicality, like music theory.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_05: Courtney, I couldn't agree more.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_05: And I know, you know, Jason, Leslie, you probably will agree.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_05: Like, students need to know what quarter notes are, they need to know what eighth notes are, they need to know what triplets are, they need to know what sixteenth notes are, and the better they know what straight is, what swung is, the more of a musician they can be, the more it's like everything falls into place once you start, like, you know, Jason said paradidal.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_05: If people know that there's four sounds in a paradidal, then okay, great.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_05: Now you know what a 16th note is, then.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_05: Don't tell me that you don't know what a 16th note is because you're doing the step that has four beats in it.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_05: So, like, yeah, absolutely.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_05: I think everybody needs to have a very basic music theory class.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, if they're gonna be a tap dancer, it will only be more proficient in your training and you know, in your evolution as an artist.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_05: If it's like being a musician, if I wanted to play a drum, I didn't know what I was doing, and I just was like making this just like asinine noise and just like stomping my hands all over it.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_05: No one wants to listen to that.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_05: But if like I know, you know, if I know the notes that are being played and I can re-cheat music, then it actually is going to make sense.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_05: And then, like, great, now it's like there's a melodic structure to it, and like, yeah, right, now it's gonna sound like something.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a perfect example of why sometimes dances don't score how you think they should at competition.
• 37:36
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• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: So both Jason, do you judge ever or are you main mainly just teaching?
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, uh, so I teach and judge.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um, but I have so many things to say about what you all just said.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all just dropped it.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: Jason, go off.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all dropped so much.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so I feel a couple of things.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_03: I feel that so many students and the parents invest so much money into their child's future.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's like college.
• 39:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you have to learn this.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: And because all of us have been dancing forever and we're gonna be dancing forever, like you have to know what's in it.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're investing in something, you want the ultimate return.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_03: So you gotta learn it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like you just and all it is, and like everything you were saying, uh Aaron, it's all math and science.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: It's just putting the pieces of the puzzle together.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_03: And if they don't work the funny thing about like in dance, like if they don't work for the most part, you can make it work because you're creating new formulas.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_03: I just want to mention all that you were saying, it's so important.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: But I do judge.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: Courtney was leading us into sort of a little segue here.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I think we actually had a question on one of our um live podcasts this summer about a studio owner who was who was frustrated that her really talented, well-trained lyrical and contemporary and jazz dancers were getting beat by well-trained, really talented, very good tap dancers.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we all, the judges on the panel kind of, you know, not necessarily put this person in her place, but said, listen, good tap dancers are good for a reason.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: They have music theory, they have musicality, they understand math, they understand, they can be, you can judge a tap dance if the music went out, if the lights went out, if everybody was blindfolded.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: If that tap dancer is a good tap dancer, I could give it a perfect score just by hearing it, because that dancer is a true artist and a musician.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do that with a lyrical dancer, a ballet dancer, a jazz dancer most of the time because you need so much more to make it work.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: So I would love to hear your thoughts on when you see tap dancing at competition and you're not scoring it well.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you not scoring it well broadly?
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I know that's a very kind of specific question, but like there's probably some broad reasons you can give for giving a 90 and not a 99.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, generally speaking, it's timing.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's the like number one.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_03: Because I see like a plethora of different tap.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times, this is one thing I find that a lot of tap numbers, there's so many steps.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Like sometimes I see like a dance with like 982 steps.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, why are there so many steps?
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: I have to go look up in the dictionary.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, all you need are like four to six of them, and then like do them really well and mix them around.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_03: Again, like just mix the pattern, mix the formula.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's just clean, you know, like you could literally do a whole solo in all cramp rolls, just breaking them down, like a regular, a reverse, and breaking them down into quarters to eighths, like whole, like whatever you want to do.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so for me, that's really pleasing.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_03: And even like if somebody did that one step, I would be like, wow, I'm gonna score pretty high.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because now you took one kind of thing and you made like all of these different kinds of you know, rhythms and out of one step, like that's genius to me, you know.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_03: So timing is like the really one, like you just have to like be in there and just sit in there.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_03: And even if you like don't have like perfect timing, we can see and hear when you're working towards it.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I like I reward that too, you know, because everybody can't be like, you know, Barishnikov, even, you know, you know, or whatever, even if we're talking about tab.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what I mean.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_03: It's like everyone, you know, and it's not that everyone can't be that, everyone may be on the journey to that.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I feel that you always have to, you know, respect everyone's journey, but it's the timing thing.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I find that a lot of the timing or lack of like strong timing comes because a lot of people in general, they don't listen to different kinds of music and aren't open into open to different experiences.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be like right now, like we're here in Spain, my dad and I, and I am fighting for my life as far as like, you know, I have a like some good Spanish words and stuff, but I have that translator.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's in my hand, you know what I mean?
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: And even if you're in tap, you know, and you're learning, and maybe just keep like the notebook on the floor, you know.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, whatever you need to do, if it looks silly, and that's what I want to say.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_03: I've taught a lot of the side note, but it's kind of all connected.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_03: I've taught a lot of Aaron's students, and his students are amazing.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_03: Your students are amazing, Aaron.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_05: I appreciate that.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, they're putting in the work, so yes, they're so good because yeah, because I taught one of Aaron's classes, and you know, and without like I was telling them something, and they was like, oh, let me get.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: My book.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, you know.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, this is where we are, you know?
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, and I and it's so good because it's like they're really taking it seriously because it's not a joke, and they're not taken as like, oh, I'm just doing tap.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're really serious about their tap, they're lyrical, they're contemporary, you know, they're hip hop, like they're serious about it all, like equally.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so I really respect that.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so just that.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the that like in this scenario, it's like we're praising Aaron as a teacher right now, and I'm sure there's other fantastic tap teachers that exist out there, but the kids are putting in the work and the kids are 100% committed because they have the teacher that is also 100% 100% committed and experienced and educated.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there's a lot of teachers out there who are just kind of not taps not really their thing.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't really learn it.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: There's no one else.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to find a tap teacher, and we have to offer tap.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: So they just put their tap shoes on, but they haven't really furthered their education.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't really done, you know, been in that teacher's shoes for a long time, or they need to gain more experience and educate themselves a little bit more to provide that 100% effort on their end.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I mean, I that sounds mean, but like at the same time, I know that that is an issue for our industry is finding qualified TAP teachers.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I think there needs to be more continuing education for TAP as well as teachers wanting to take advantage of that.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Can I say one thing in reference to that?
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I say, like, if you don't know like something, it's again, it goes back to the surrendering.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_03: You have to like, you know, give up, you know, like what you think you don't know.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_03: Because a lot of times, even for myself, I'm like, do I know how to do that?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I don't know.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_03: But what I'm gonna do is steal.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_03: And when I say steal, I say that in the best artistic way, you know.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: Go on YouTube or like ask someone or steal somebody else's stuff that doesn't go, just steal it.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then make it your own.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: And they won't even know.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_03: You know?
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and in tap, that is the history of tap dance.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_00: It is, yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's also something to point out to people who are gonna be like, oh, stole this.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, like you're not stealing in tap dance is actually an honor.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is something that the community does with with love and and humility, and like, oh, I'm gonna take that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna make up my own.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_00: And then you're gonna say, Man, that was such a great riff on my thing that you just did.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's a thing we do in the tap dance world.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and and another thing that I think I don't remember who said this.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I said that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe Richard said it.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, one of our previous podcasts, in the tap dance world, you always pay homage to where you got something.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: So in your class, if you're teaching a rudiment, I got that from Jay Fagan.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's Jay Fagan's rudiments, who got it from so and so.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like you, and that's part of what I think makes the tap community so beautiful that a lot of times, like maybe in sort of the Broadway jazz community, you have this with like, we're gonna reference Fosse, you know?
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: But like in Tap, I think it's a beautiful thing that we can always borrow from our friends and give them, you know, the credit for it, and it's not a big deal, you know, it's expected.
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, it doesn't really happen anymore.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_05: But I mean, the one of the biggest things with like instead of you want to say steel, you want to say share, you know, whatever, um, like a musician, there would be cutting contests.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like, it doesn't really happen anymore.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_05: But like, there used to be a cutting contest, or you know, you want to say a jam, whatever.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, Jared used to host uh Broadway Underground.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_05: Um, Swing 46, there used to be a weekly cutting contest in New York that you know everybody would go to, and you know, you put your shoes on and you would just share.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_05: And that's where like you Jason showed up, and I'd be like, Wow, Jason did that one step.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you kind of watch it, you go to a studio, you rehearse, you practice, and you try to like perfect that step.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_05: And then, you know, you would go back and you would try to share it the next week.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_05: Have any of you ever seen the movie, the musician movie with um with the yes, movie about this kid that is, you know, being an aspiring drummer.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_05: And but there's a story in there about Charlie Parker.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_05: And there's a conversation where Charlie Parker shows up to a cutting contest with musicians, and he basically, you know, goes to play his sacks, and uh, they throw a cymbal at his head because he's terrible.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_05: And so he he leaves, you know, disgruntled and ashamed, but then he goes and practices every single day until he goes back and basically plays the most beautiful uh piece of music that anyone's ever heard and he like improvised it.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_05: And so they're saying, like, if he didn't show up and he wasn't, I don't want to say ashamed, but you know, if he didn't have that drive in him to go back and practice and be the best that he could be, would you now have the Charlie Parker that everybody listens to and you know have and is making that beautiful music?
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_05: And so the that mentality and that drive would how does that not correlate to the dance world in any genre?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, obviously we're talking tap specifically, but if you want it, you're gonna do whatever you want to get it.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_05: And if you don't want it, then you're not you're not going to do it.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_05: You don't have the drive.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_05: And so, like, competition-wise, like I want to see confidence on stage.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I mean, timing, obviously.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_05: I want to see I like I like are you owning, you know, the dance?
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_05: Have do you look confident when you're on?
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_05: Are you smiling?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Are you owning the steps that you're performing?
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_05: Are you, you know, showing me that you have put in the work and the dedication to bring that showmanship into your dance?
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_05: Or are you looking at the floor?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_05: Or like, are your eyes like, you know, jumping side to side because you're not confident and you're kind of like, oh my God, what is the next step?
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I want to see that like evolution of.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_05: I say this to my dancers every year.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_05: You know, I don't know, this could, you know, this could come across the wrong way coming as, you know, a judge.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_05: In 20 years, are we going as a student?
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_05: Are you going to remember like, I was Mrs.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_05: Starquest first place at Omaha, Nebraska?
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_05: Or like, was I Miss Star Power, you know, whatever.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_05: Was I whatever title holder, you know, that I wanted to be in 20 years?
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_05: Or are you going to remember, I tell my students this every year when they're doing, you know, choreography.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care how you place the competitions.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_05: I don't care if you get first place, last place, gold medal, bronze medal, honorable mention.
• 50:05
  SPEAKER_05: Are you a stronger dancer in June than you were in September when you started this piece of choreography?
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_05: And if you were, then I've done my job and you've done your job as a dancer.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you can show me all of the medals that you want.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_05: I that doesn't mean anything.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_05: I want to know that like you are a more proficient dancer and a proficient human being and a proficient overall, you just you have that like aura to you and you have that confidence rather than like you holding up a ribbon and being like, look, I'm, you know, I'm first place winner.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_05: Like, okay, yeah, great.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_05: I don't, I I could care less.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: And don't let the the award level determine that for you.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that a lot of people get in their head throughout the season, well, I started in in January, I got a gold, and then in March I got a platinum, so I'm doing better.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now I got a diamond.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: I must be doing better.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: And like, maybe you are, but at the same time, like, if it goes in the opposite way, it's probably just because it could be just because every competition has different award ranges and everyone's different and they judge it differently, and who knows who was on the panel, a different day, a different judge.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_01: Whatever.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't mean you're not progressing if you get a lower award at the next event.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Do you know what I mean?
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: Because people get so wrapped up in that.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: That also means you might have had a judge who has only ever done ballet in her life.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_00: You know, or sometimes you might have Aaron Parkhurst who's like judging you appropriately and like knows what he's looking at, you know.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's one of the things that, you know, we talk about this a lot on the podcast, that like exactly what you said, Aaron, are you better today than you were yesterday?
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: Because then that means you've succeeded and you've excelled and you've moved forward, um, not the, you know, color of the ribbon you have in your hand.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_05: Like if you can, if you can proficiently execute your solo that you started in September and you're like yesterday, I was in a studio with a dancer, I choreographed her solo over the summer, and we worked on the first four bars of music.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_05: And she got frustrated the entire time because I would turn the music off and she would be like, What's wrong?
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_05: I'm like, you're not, you know, you know, you're not in the pocket of music, you're not doing this, you're not doing that.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_05: Like, execute, like, we're not moving forward until you have these steps.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_05: Because now, if you don't have these four steps and we move forward, we have to now backtrack and go back to so like think of it as like a train.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_05: You have to do little by little by little and then connect all of the you know the trains together.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_05: Then you can pull the train and you know everything is going to effortlessly continue and moving on.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_05: And I think a lot of students they don't have patience for tap.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:38
  unknown: Yeah.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_05: They don't have the work ethic to want to put in the work.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_05: They see themselves being able to do other genres so much more effortlessly or quickly.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_05: And I'm sorry, it's just it's not that for tap.
• 52:51
  SPEAKER_05: And part of like part of when I'm watching them at competition and on convention and I'm watching their solo, do like it comes back to confidence.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_05: Like, do I am I believing right now that you put in seven months worth of training and you're executing this?
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_05: Or did you, were you fumbling through and you know, you're just like, oh, okay, I'll get to it later.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_05: Like, I'm gonna go on TikTok, or I'm gonna go outside and play with my friends.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_05: Or are you sweating?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_05: Are you dripping sweat in the room, like practicing the dance and being like proficient in what it is?
• 53:21
  SPEAKER_05: We're all professionals, we've all judged before.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_05: You know when somebody's putting in the work and somebody's not putting in the work.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_05: It's just very telling, and just the way they carry themselves on stage.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know when a dancer's walking on stage and just the way they present themselves, you're like, oh, this is gonna be fire.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_05: Or like you're like, what's happening right now?
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_05: Like maybe we need to, you know, we need to train a little bit more.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you know, I'm not, I'm not believing in, you know, what it is that you're doing right now.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_05: Um, but for yeah, tap dancing, they they have zero patience for it.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, it's it's unfortunate because Courtney, like you said, like you train or Leslie, whatever classes we're taking, you there's that like urge, that surge of like excitement when you get something, you're like, holy crap, I just I just did that.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_05: And like those light bulb moments as a teacher and a choreographer, like, I mean, I'm all of us, you know, I'm sure we can, you know, agree, those are what we strive for as teachers and educators of like when that student has that light bulb go off and you're like, wow, I just got that, you're like, okay, well, there it is.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_05: Like, you can take my paycheck and donate it, like done.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_05: I mean, like that it's it's more fulfilling than you know, money.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_05: It is uh just seeing your students progress.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think a couple of things.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_03: I think what you said, I think it's very important to be honest with yourself always.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it's okay to feel bad, you know what I mean?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if you feel like bad that you haven't achieved something, it's like you have 150 more years to live.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be fine, you'll get it.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_00: At this point, yeah.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_03: You know what I mean?
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_03: So like that, and also I think as far as like from judges like point of view, even more judges can be more open to.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_03: Like, if like you're not really familiar with the style, because every judge is you know proficient in like specific styles, but like everyone was saying, you can really a lot of times I judge someone's spirit and their confidence, you know what I mean?
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's so very invaluable.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because it's interesting, like we teach dance, but we're also really just teaching life, you know?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because even if they don't, you know, go on to become professional dancers or whatever, we have given them the formulas to like be like successful in anything that they do.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I think those are really important things.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I totally agree with y'all.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, at competition, when it comes to tap, I think it is a tricky category because I don't think that a lot of people are putting in that work that you're talking about, Aaron, and really committing and and and don't come confident to the stage, like we've seen a ton of times.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: But I I think that as a judge for me, the the hardest thing is I I wish that more people would be in the pocket and have stronger timing across the board and tap.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's very rare.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: And when there are dancers that are in the pocket and clean, then they are the ones that are getting those first overalls, like to me, because they're well trained all all around.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like the timing is forgotten about and we're so focused on the shiggy bops and the double pullbacks and the wings, instead of finding the rhythm and the timing and the downbeat and the pocket of how to execute that step.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: The technique, you're focusing so much on the technique, but the musicality of the step is part of the execution, it's part of the technique.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: So though we just talked about how you're breaking down the step of a waltz clog, like that needs to be done on every single step.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then that rhythm needs to be in your head, matching the music that you're dancing to.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, there's so many times on the critique tapes that I'm like, I could truly put any song on right now, and this would be the same tap dance, and it shouldn't be because you should be dancing to the music that and being it's you know, or creating your own rhythms, like because you're not even in the beat at all.
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I feel like I should just turn the song off and see what happens, or like when the songs cut out in the middle, like on purpose in the tap dances, and then they come back in, but they like always get faster and faster and faster when they the song cuts out and they're like waiting for the song to come back in because they're so ahead of the music.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's things like that that are why it it doesn't score as high for me because if you're gonna pull that fast one, you better execute.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know why a lot of people do.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_03: I wouldn't do it.
• 57:31
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know why they do it either.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's no, your adrenaline is going and like it's too much.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_03: It's tricky.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: But like you said, like Jason, there I like I I love when I see the dancers who are true are trying to find the timing.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's beautiful, yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I can tell that like their brain is in overdrive and they know they got a little off on that rhythm and they're a hair ahead.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: And they got it back, you know, then they wait until the one and they don't charge ahead until the next.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: I always say thank you.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, thank you.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: But like there's a lot of dancers who don't even know when they're out of timing and they just charge, charge, charge.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: And I think like understand the musicality or the music theory of where the one is.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's that's one of my biggest things when I'm judging is if if if you don't understand where the one is, how do you expect me to understand where the one is?
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like I hear it in the song, but you clearly don't.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like you said, you know, Jason, earlier about using and listening to different kinds of music.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_00: I definitely think that's something that people need to be more aware of and and use more, like use the music that there is in the world because there's so much of it.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's also the sort of there are songs that can be used for tap dancing, I think.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are songs that cannot, because some of them don't make any sense.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: And you're like, Wait, when what was this last season, Leslie?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_01: What it was the songs episode, and you said don't do a Megan Trainer song.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh god, a Megan Trainer.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_00: Those poor people.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: The poor people that were like, oh my god, I'm using a Megan Trainer song.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: But like, there's just some music that like doesn't there's just nothing in it that that I mean, I guess if you were a very excellent musician, you could put your rhythm onto a very generic basic song and like make it interesting.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_00: But most of the time you don't have that kind of musicianship paired with that kind of song.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_00: If you're a really if you're a proficient musician teaching a tap class, you're picking a song with some really interesting things happening that you're like, ooh, I can riff off of that, I can play off of this.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've got Megan Trainer who's like just verse chorus, verse chorus, verse, chorus, the end.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, this is what am I supposed to do?
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_00: And you can't even find the one.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like, if you can't even find the one on this song, what I guess is all I can do.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like everyone needs to know where the one is because there are times even when I'm watching dancers who are in the pocket, but the choreography isn't really making sense to what what the rhythm like tap steps are being done on like I don't know.
• 59:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's I feel like we could talk about this all day because there's just so much there's so much to talk about when it comes to tap.
• 1:00:01
  SPEAKER_01: And but yeah, I would say timing for me is is the biggest.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then even just the execution of the technique and making it clear to me that you understand like the difference between a stamp and a stomp and a flat footed, full footed stamp or whatever, like whatever it is, if you're supposed to have your weight off your heels or not, like I need to know when and then it because then it changes the whole step.
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like then it makes me just sit there questioning, well, was that supposed to be a heel drop or not?
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: And if it was, then you didn't put any power in and I didn't hear the heel drop.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_01: But if it wasn't, then you need to stay off your heels when you land out of that double pullback, or whatever it is.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: But you only have uh three minutes to talk about that, and then you sound like an idiot if you called it a flap, but it was really supposed to be a scuffle or something, you know, and then the teacher's like, well, she doesn't know what she's talking about.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, make it clear only because your student didn't do whatever she was choreographed to do correctly, and that's not on me.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's on you.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be like a great orator, you know, like someone who has really good like diction and speech.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: It has to be that clear.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: You have to die all of those.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, with your feet.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, with your feet.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_03: It's important because if it's not, it's just muddled, muddled, you know.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_05: You're diving into uh uh Leslie, what you were talking about with the not only just the execution of the steps, but now you're talking, you're talking the way they're practicing in the room with the choreographer, and now you're getting into like the musicality aspect of it.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_05: So if you're supposed to be doing, you know, stomp or step, stomp, burstep, stamp, burst step, stomp, burst step, step, step, where is the accent?
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_05: It could be anywhere you want it to be.
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_05: Is it you know, is it on the one, is it on the three, is it on the four, is it on the seven?
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_05: As a choreographer, but now you need to explain that to your student.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_05: So then they're not flat footed the entire time and they're up on the balls of their feet, so they're hitting those accents where they need to be.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_05: And again, that just goes back to like the patience, the training, the being very clear and precise on what you want the musicality to be, and then the dancer having to, you know, execute that.
• 1:02:01
  SPEAKER_05: So when a judge is watching it, they'd say, Oh, I know exactly what that was supposed to be.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_05: Nice execution, moving on.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_05: Not like is this entire thing supposed to be flat footed?
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_05: Or was the accent supposed to be on the one?
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like it needs to be very clear and precise.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_05: And you know, that goes back to, you know, Courtney, you were talking about like teacher training.
• 1:02:18
  SPEAKER_05: It's 2022.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_05: We have the internet.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_05: Like, if I wanted to have a PhD in astrophysics, like I could have a PhD in, I mean, I don't want one, but you know what I mean?
• 1:02:28
  SPEAKER_05: There's so many outlets, like Jason said, watch a YouTube video.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_05: Ask steal that step.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_05: There are so many ask.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_05: Like, send, like, send, you know, you're uh someone like what what is the worst that's gonna happen?
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_05: Maybe they're gonna say that like we all have social media.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_05: Like, if you have a question, like, I don't know, this could be like a you know, this could be tricky, but like, like find their email and send them an email and ask, like, I have this question on something, or you want like they're the you have the internet at your disposal to ask all of the questions and like maybe people won't respond to you.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_05: But like I have students that reach out to me, you know, all the time, you know, via social media asking, like, what tap shoe should I get, or like, where should I be training?
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_05: Or are you teaching anywhere?
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_05: Like, who should like, can I train with this person?
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_05: Or like, ask, what's the worst that's gonna happen?
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_05: You're either not gonna get a response because someone's busy, or they're gonna respond to you, you know, at a later date and you know, giving you an answer.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_05: And there's so many online platforms now that like colleagues of you know, Jason and I, like in the tap community, they are putting out so much content for people to be training and learning um that and it's free.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_05: It's not, I mean, there is a paid subscription, but it's free.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_05: Like all technique exercises, rudiments, uh, choreography, you know, like eight, 12, 16 bar, you know, pieces of choreography to music that they would not be listening to.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_05: And so it's just like, I think there has to be a little bit more self-discipline on I live in Oshbosh Bagash and I don't have a tap teacher.
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_05: Well, you have Google.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_05: You have YouTube, you have TikTok and social media, like the amount of tap dancers that are on TikTok putting out like instructional videos is, I mean, I'm not on TikTok and I never will be, but like I see it on so I see it on Instagram and social media.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_05: Like the amount of content that is free for people to, you know, have access to that they're not using because, you know, they just, I don't know, they are lazy or they don't have the discipline to do it.
• 1:04:28
  SPEAKER_05: Students don't need to have a teacher in the room yelling at them for four hours a day to do the steps.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_05: The dancer needs to go home and practice it on their own, what the teacher was telling them to do in the room, and then show up the next week and you know, say, look at what I did.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_05: Great, let's move on to the next lesson and you know, whatever.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_05: Let's, you know, let's progress onto whatever else we need to do.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, yes.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: All of it.
• 1:04:52
  SPEAKER_01: All of it.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, y'all.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: We could, I mean, obviously.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_05: Oh, this is dangerous.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_05: If I didn't have to go teach right now, I would be like going down the rabbit hole for the room.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:05:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's so much to say.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's what this pod that's why this podcast is so special.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: We just love to talk dance all day over here and get into little heated discussions.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, y'all, I mean, I I guess uh Aaron has to go teach.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: Just we have to wrap up.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_01: Jason, you have to go enjoy our station, you know.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, this was really informative.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we definitely talked about the styles a little bit, but we just kind of just chatted tap dance a lot and really helped navigate this beautiful style of dance even more, I think.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um, for a lot of parents might learn something.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: Dancers will definitely learn something from this discussion.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_01: And teachers, we gave a lot of helpful tips, tricks, advice to the teachers out there.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that everyone listening enjoyed our tap episode for season four.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you so much to Erin and Jason for joining us and sharing your expertise and knowledge on the style.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we're so grateful to have you both.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: And yes.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: And how our guests always lead us out on making the impact is by sharing one final thought, one final bit of advice, tip, guidance to the world, the dance world.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: It can be the teachers, the dancers, the parents, tap dancers, other tappers out there, tap dancers, whoever you want to chat to.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_01: One final bit of advice regarding our topic today.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_05: Uh, I would say to everyone, you know, listening parents, uh, students, teachers, don't.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_05: I always try to lead my classes at convention or, you know, in general.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_05: Believe in yourself.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_05: You can do anything that you want to do.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah, whether you think you can or whether you can't you think you can't.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_05: You already know.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_05: Make the best decisions possible for you.
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_05: Believe in yourself, you know, invest in yourself, and you know, the sky is the limit.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed this week's episode all about tap-dings and the different styles.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to follow our special guests on social media.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Aaron at APK360 and Jason at BroadwayJB.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, Google Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 1:07:11
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• 1:07:18
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• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com/slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: Be sure to check out IBA affiliated competition Gems Dance Competition.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_01: Gems Dance Competition is a fresh dance event created by studios for studios with the intent of changing the norm.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: Their competitions are designed to be a positive experience for you, your staff, your students, and your entire family.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_01: At GEMS, you are always guaranteed an encouraging educational, professional, and fun environment at each location.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: With full panels of IDA judges at every event and locations throughout the Midwest, we highly recommend adding Gems Dance Competition to your 2023 competition schedule.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: To learn more about GEMS and to register for an upcoming event, head to their website at dancegems.com and come show your sparkle at Gems Dance Competition.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_00: We are on a roll in season four with some excellent episodes coming your way.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for our next Spotlight feature costume malfunctions and how to handle them, and the benefits of private lessons.