Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to James Lark about his choice of The TV Movie

Transcript

Talks to James Lark about his choice of The TV Movie · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

• 0:00
  Saturday, May the fourth. I've watched the first four
• 0:04
  parts of the Invasion of Time. I think it's quite good, apart
• 0:08
  from the Varden's. Their shimmering appearance is
• 0:11
  comical and they couldn't have got any worse when they
• 0:14
  materialized properly. Except they did.
• 0:18
  They didn't look like a threat of any sort.
• 0:20
  A pathetic group of weirdos dressed up in old fashioned
• 0:23
  clothes, two dopey ones and a small one with a big mouth who
• 0:28
  looks utterly ridiculous. Why on earth the Doctors did all
• 0:31
  that bluffing and blowing up Gallifrey, throwing it into
• 0:33
  chaos just to bring them there so you could send them back,
• 0:36
  I'll never know. Still, the Sontarans are in it
• 0:40
  now, so it should liven up a. Bit oh boy.
• 0:44
  I I'm quite ill, but I went into town this morning, partly to go
• 0:47
  to the bank and partly to get Kevin a birthday present.
• 0:50
  I saw a few Doctor Who articles and read Doctor Who magazine.
• 0:54
  The new one comes out on video on the 15th and will be shown on
• 0:58
  the 27th. Reassuring things.
• 1:02
  The famous kiss is very quick and not at all emotional.
• 1:06
  The rumour about him getting his leg over was apparently due to
• 1:09
  the tabloids getting hold of the schedule and seeing the scene
• 1:12
  where Grace knocks the Doctor over the head with something
• 1:15
  entitled Grace Bonks Dr. The video is a 15 which rather
• 1:22
  defeats the family show ideal. A lot of it seems to be in dim
• 1:26
  blue light. I'm not too sure about this half
• 1:30
  human idea though. Sounds very American Still, the
• 1:36
  Doctor Who magazine correspondent says Doctor Who
• 1:38
  couldn't be in better hands. I suppose it could be worse.
• 1:44
  Welcome back to a hamster with a blunt pen knife, Doctor Who
• 1:51
  Commentary podcast. No, no it's not.
• 1:55
  It's the James Lark Diaries now. That's what this podcast is 0.
• 2:00
  Boy. Why was she watching The
• 2:03
  Invasion of Time? Was that sort of softening up
• 2:04
  process to reach the TV movie? You, you, you.
• 2:09
  We launched straight into the nub of the problem with the the
• 2:12
  TV movie. So 1996 I'm I've been trying to
• 2:17
  think what what I actually watched on television in 96.
• 2:21
  I didn't watch The X-Files. Shame.
• 2:24
  I was a very casual, occasional, once in a blue moon Next
• 2:28
  Generation, but I I've come to the depressing conclusion that
• 2:33
  what I watched on television in 1996 was Doctor Who.
• 2:38
  From the 70s. From the 70s.
• 2:41
  So let's put this into a wider context.
• 2:45
  In 1995 S the summer before the TV movie came out, I was visited
• 2:53
  by my friend Matthew, the the one who introduced me to Doctor
• 2:56
  Who back in the 80s and and we had since moved a house where
• 3:01
  Matthew was in Kent. We were in Gloucestershire.
• 3:02
  So very, you know, we kept in in regular correspondence, living
• 3:08
  up to the the James Lark, Jane Austen Cliche that I was, yeah,
• 3:12
  we wrote a lot of letters and he was my main kind of source of
• 3:15
  information for all things Doctor Who.
• 3:17
  Anyway, the reliable James reliable source more reliable
• 3:21
  than DWM. Well, more yeah, he got his
• 3:26
  information before DWM because they pinched everything kind of
• 3:29
  two months late. But he he was an early adopter
• 3:32
  of the Internet. So yeah, he he had some pretty
• 3:35
  good sources and in the night and and he also had UK gold.
• 3:39
  So 95 he came over, stayed for a few nights and brought with him
• 3:44
  a load of VHS cassettes with stuff he takes off.
• 3:49
  This was because the, you know, the the video release, they,
• 3:54
  they were kind of getting through them, but it was only
• 3:56
  like one or two a month. I can't remember.
• 3:58
  Once a month maybe there there was still a lot of Doctor Who
• 4:01
  not available. So these these off air
• 4:05
  recordings from from UK gold were were just, I mean, literal
• 4:11
  gold things you hadn't seen. Yeah, things I hadn't seen.
• 4:15
  Oh, a treasure chest. And then so he brought with him
• 4:20
  a, a, you know, a selection handful, I think mostly Peter
• 4:23
  Davidson. But then I, I had a, a cunning
• 4:26
  plan. I suddenly thought, well, that
• 4:27
  UK gold were repeating them and he had some gaps.
• 4:31
  He'd got some that he hadn't managed to, to, to take.
• 4:34
  But I realized that all of the others would, would just being
• 4:36
  broadcast on UK Gold and waste, you know, what a waste of a
• 4:40
  broadcast if he wasn't videoing them for me.
• 4:44
  So we came to an arrangement whereby I would send him a tenor
• 4:49
  in the post every couple of months with which he would buy
• 4:53
  videotapes, Record Doctor of UK Golden.
• 4:56
  He would post them back to me in a big jiffy bag, and every
• 4:59
  couple of months I would get my fix of classic Doctor Who.
• 5:03
  So literally. What a nice kid, right?
• 5:08
  Such a nice thing to do it. Was a nice thing to do and he he
• 5:12
  would make me little booklets as well with the.
• 5:13
  Listings Where is Matthew now? I don't know where is.
• 5:19
  Matthew. Matthew, where are you?
• 5:21
  An open invitation to come on a hamster, a blood pen knife
• 5:24
  whenever you want. For your kindness to James.
• 5:28
  And it you can, well, you can imagine the, the, the discovery,
• 5:31
  I mean, when he started sending them and the first one I got in
• 5:36
  the post was the invasion of time.
• 5:39
  And I think I'd been quite picky.
• 5:41
  I hadn't wanted all of them because it was it because it was
• 5:45
  AI was sending money for the for the tapes.
• 5:47
  It wasn't like tape them all. It was I'm going to have this
• 5:50
  one, this one this like people used to do with their with their
• 5:53
  dealers. And as I recall, that first tape
• 5:56
  came with the invasion of time and then it's then it skipped a
• 6:00
  bit. I think it's sort of skipped to.
• 6:03
  I would skip this key to time because I thought it's it's a
• 6:05
  whole. Change.
• 6:07
  I I just I I no. I mean as a child I can see as
• 6:10
  well. Did you still skip straight to
• 6:12
  Destiny? The Daleks, did you?
• 6:14
  Yes. Oh no, you've skipped all the
• 6:17
  best stuff. Went straight to the next sheer
• 6:20
  thing. Well, you can, you can.
• 6:22
  You can tell 16 year old James Lark that, but he would
• 6:24
  disagree. The excitement when those tapes
• 6:29
  arrived in the post. You, you, you can imagine, can't
• 6:32
  you? So.
• 6:34
  I had the same. I had the same James.
• 6:35
  I had a fellow called Darren McKay who I've found on social
• 6:39
  media, so you'll see him every now and again commenting on the
• 6:42
  blue sky. He was my fix, you know, and he
• 6:45
  was beautiful. I was trying to seduce him via
• 6:47
  pen pal letters. Unfortunately, he was straight.
• 6:51
  I somewhere I designed video covers for them all as well and.
• 6:55
  Wow, is it like your darling card?
• 6:57
  The tape's fabulous comic strip that you did, They were.
• 7:00
  Quite stunned. I'm going to have to dig them
• 7:04
  out. I would have put them.
• 7:07
  I would have kept them because they were kind of, no, they were
• 7:10
  sort of silhouettes. I tried.
• 7:12
  Well, I'll tell you what happened was when the TV movie
• 7:15
  came out. In fact, I've got documents with
• 7:18
  me. Do you remember this?
• 7:19
  Do you remember this? Oh boy, do I Yes, the Radio
• 7:24
  Times with Paul McGowan on the front. 16 page Time Lord
• 7:28
  Souvenir in the side. What was it?
• 7:32
  A 16 page Doctor Who return of the Time Lord meet the doctor of
• 7:37
  the future and travel back with us in time.
• 7:40
  Plus, it says win a unique piece of Doctor Who history.
• 7:42
  I don't know what that was. It's a slightly odd picture.
• 7:45
  They've they've done a kind of trendy the distortion effect,
• 7:48
  which makes. It's like dimensions in time
• 7:50
  with a load of heads. That look framing in his face.
• 7:55
  James, that front cover there. How beautifully lit is Paul
• 7:59
  McGann in that picture? There is an irony in the fact
• 8:03
  that they took all these beautiful photographs in the in
• 8:05
  the fully lit TARDIS set, but we never got to see that because in
• 8:08
  the TV movie it's always in emergency lighting mode.
• 8:11
  But yeah, so this free giveaway with the Radio Times came out
• 8:16
  and it's full of pictures of classic Doctor Who and everyone
• 8:21
  I knew gave me one of the, because everyone I knew got the
• 8:24
  Radio Times and what they weren't keeping their souvenir
• 8:26
  booklet. So I had about 100 copies of
• 8:28
  this. So I, I cannibalised them.
• 8:30
  And so my video covers were I would draw black on black on
• 8:34
  white silhouettes and then add colour photos from from the
• 8:39
  Doctor Who souvenir magazine. Anyway, that's.
• 8:42
  That's just my heart swells every time I talk to you, You
• 8:45
  know the the. More.
• 8:47
  The more things you brandish. I mean, that Dalek comic you
• 8:50
  drew was just heaven on earth. OK, please find the cover so we
• 8:54
  can see them in the. Future I'll look them out, but
• 8:57
  you can see the problem here. I I.
• 8:59
  Wasn't getting excited. I wasn't into contemporary
• 9:04
  talent. Basically, if anything I did
• 9:07
  watch in the mid 90s was probably a sitcom.
• 9:12
  Stuff that because they were still recording stuff on
• 9:14
  videotape. If they if it was comedies that
• 9:16
  it still looked like comedies from the 80s.
• 9:19
  I wasn't really up to speed with what television looked like.
• 9:23
  I had watched an episode of The X-Files and I'm afraid it didn't
• 9:25
  do anything for me. I found and I do you.
• 9:29
  Remember what it was about I. Think it was the one with the
• 9:33
  the guy with the long hands. Oh, you're mad?
• 9:37
  That dragged me in kicking and screaming, I suppose, if you're
• 9:41
  used to watching tinfoil floating in the air in the
• 9:44
  1970s. Everyone has a different
• 9:48
  expectation of. I.
• 9:53
  Know there was something so we we are releasing a a podcast in
• 9:58
  tandem with this in which we discussed the the novelisation
• 10:01
  with with Michael Mills and he he talks about a certain type of
• 10:06
  fan at at points in that. And I accused you in that, of it
• 10:10
  being you and the the reason why that novelisation came out as
• 10:14
  terrible as it did. It was all your fault.
• 10:16
  It's all my fault and and Michael was quite scathing about
• 10:20
  fans who were down on Americanism and and things being
• 10:23
  being American. But I was that person.
• 10:25
  And I found American television, oh, artificial and a bit too
• 10:31
  glossy. And I thought the next
• 10:32
  generation was was it looked very handsome but was very slow
• 10:37
  and boring, which isn't it is. And I found The X-Files really
• 10:45
  dark. Like not, not in a kind of all
• 10:47
  that was dark, but in AI can't see what's going on on the
• 10:50
  screen. It's dark.
• 10:51
  And again, I've I've revisited The X-Files and it it hasn't it
• 10:55
  doesn't update terribly well because it's so darn grainy,
• 10:58
  because it's they're filming everything in half life.
• 11:01
  And I didn't want that from television.
• 11:03
  I I wanted brightly lit sets. I thought that, honestly, I
• 11:09
  thought that the the late 80s of Doctor Who was was about as good
• 11:14
  as television had ever got. Brightly lit set.
• 11:17
  So sort of Warriors of the Deep was your high bar, yeah.
• 11:21
  Warriors to the Deep wasn't my high bar, but I'd be thinking
• 11:23
  about, I think that the Doctor Who that I showed my parents,
• 11:26
  the one where I sat them down one Sunday afternoon and said
• 11:29
  we're watching Doctor Who, that was City of Death.
• 11:32
  And. We all had a really good time.
• 11:35
  Oh thank God for that. And then and then a few months
• 11:37
  later, we all sat down and watched ATV movie and we didn't.
• 11:45
  Now I'm going to suggest that perhaps your steady diet of
• 11:52
  nostalgia TV perhaps didn't leave you.
• 11:57
  I'm trying to be diplomatic here as a television literate as you
• 12:01
  could have been in the 1990s. Yeah, absolutely right.
• 12:07
  And what you've got here is a, is a version of Doctor Who that
• 12:13
  was effortfully trying to look as up to date, as contemporary
• 12:18
  as possible. It's an, I mean, it's amazing
• 12:21
  artefact that it was shot on film, isn't it?
• 12:23
  I mean, a few years later and it wouldn't have been.
• 12:25
  Well, it was what, five, $5,000,000, wasn't it?
• 12:29
  Was the budget for this, and that's a hefty budget in 96,
• 12:34
  yeah. In terms of the way it's lit, in
• 12:37
  terms of the story it's telling, in terms of the relationship, I
• 12:40
  mean, Michael is quite right to be scathing about this kind of
• 12:43
  anti American thing. And yet there is there are
• 12:47
  decisions in this TV movie which we can look at now and kind of
• 12:50
  go, well, that was probably a mistake.
• 12:52
  And there are things where you can see why they've done it.
• 12:54
  But they have done it not because it's like Doctor Who,
• 12:57
  but because it it's like everything else on television.
• 13:02
  They I think it's very much a product of the mid 90s because
• 13:06
  it wasn't, it wasn't a time where people went for the kitsch
• 13:11
  or the nostalgia. It wasn't a time where people
• 13:14
  would have lent into the eccentricity of something like
• 13:17
  eccentricity of this is, oh, he gets out a bag of Jelly babies.
• 13:22
  But it's not that eccentric, is it?
• 13:25
  Oh, he drinks a cup of tea at the start.
• 13:27
  It's not, it's not Doctor Who, and it's at it's zaniest, is it?
• 13:30
  Oh, well, maybe to an American, those things might be eccentric.
• 13:33
  You know, Remember, they're used to sitcoms where people just
• 13:36
  walk into rooms and get a massive round of applause for
• 13:38
  walking through a door. You know?
• 13:40
  You ain't got to do much to be zanier over there.
• 13:43
  I I guess so. I guess so.
• 13:45
  Well, you said there that, but I do also think as well, yeah,
• 13:50
  it's absolutely a product of it's time, which is why I loved
• 13:53
  it at the time, because I was immersed in American television
• 13:56
  at the time. I couldn't have given a toss
• 13:58
  about the invasion of time. I was chowing down on a steady
• 14:03
  diet of Buffy and Deep Space 9. And maybe it wasn't Buffy at
• 14:07
  that point, that kind of a bit later, Deep Space 9, Next
• 14:09
  Generation, X-Files and all that stuff.
• 14:12
  This is, and this is important because Buffy, of course, is
• 14:18
  simultaneously sort of knowingly a bit kitsch, like the first
• 14:24
  series of Buffy especially, is is happily.
• 14:27
  They're like terrible B movies aren't the.
• 14:30
  Movies. B Movies, but with a huge dollop
• 14:33
  of wit. Now The X-Files couldn't be more
• 14:35
  different from that it takes itself.
• 14:37
  It got there. No, no, it got there.
• 14:39
  It there are episodes of The X-Files that are very witty by
• 14:43
  certain writers and very knowing, but it kind of had to
• 14:48
  make it stake as being having one foot in reality to find this
• 14:53
  audience before they could let their hair down.
• 14:55
  There were later seasons where it went too funny and it stopped
• 14:59
  being scary, and then it almost became a parody of itself when
• 15:02
  they were doing stuff like X Cops and things like this.
• 15:06
  Things like that. But.
• 15:07
  That was years away. Look, here's another Radio Times
• 15:11
  cover for you. This.
• 15:12
  This is really telling, isn't it?
• 15:15
  Oh yes, David Duchovny and Gillian Anderson bending over
• 15:19
  looking like, oh, just the most beautiful Armani models.
• 15:23
  And underneath them. Very small with Paul Mcgahn.
• 15:27
  Paul Mcgahn sitting up in that in that blue light now, Doctor
• 15:30
  Who, you the it's reputation was and it's, and it's hard to know
• 15:37
  where it it emerged from and it, and I've got some diary entries
• 15:42
  on this as well. But, but, but by 1996 it wasn't
• 15:46
  beloved program Doctor Who, which of course, it just sort of
• 15:50
  faded away without a word in 89 and then come back in 93 and,
• 15:55
  and already we had the Doctor Who nostalgia and everyone was
• 15:57
  very enthusiastic about Doctor Who in 96.
• 16:00
  It was, oh, Doctor Who was shit. But now it's being made in
• 16:04
  America and and. Steven Spielberg's involved, you
• 16:07
  know. My God.
• 16:09
  And it's reputation was as something so tatty and and so
• 16:15
  and so old fashioned and and silly that almost every article
• 16:23
  about it was sort of distancing the new Doctor Who.
• 16:25
  You can see the quotes, can't you?
• 16:27
  You can see the quotes. Wobbly walls, you know, hide
• 16:30
  behind the sofa. Every time and and the interview
• 16:34
  with where Paul McGann said or at first I thought they wanted
• 16:37
  me to play one of those scarf wearing eccentrics.
• 16:40
  So it felt to to me that they were dismissing.
• 16:44
  Is he suggesting? He's not in fancy dress in this.
• 16:47
  I. Mean.
• 16:48
  Right, but here we go. Look, 14th of May, Tuesday, the
• 16:53
  14th of May. Guess what happened on Tuesday
• 16:56
  the 14th of May? Is that when it aired?
• 16:57
  No. No, no, it's still got a good
• 16:59
  couple of weeks to go. I was, I was just home from
• 17:02
  school watching Newsround. And I remember in the, in, in
• 17:09
  the, the, the, the, the credits where they, they read the
• 17:13
  headline stories. They, they read out a headline
• 17:15
  about Doctor Who. I had a little clip and I leapt
• 17:18
  to the video recorder and shoved in a blank tape and recorded
• 17:21
  the, the, the whole item so that I could watch it again and again
• 17:26
  and again, which is why I did. So this is what I write in my
• 17:30
  diary on Newsround. Today were a few clips from the
• 17:34
  new Doctor Who. I've rewatched them a lot.
• 17:38
  I videoed it and here are my first impressions.
• 17:41
  The Doctor. From what I can see, Paul McGann
• 17:44
  is fine. From what I can see, the TARDIS,
• 17:51
  the interior is completely different from what it used to
• 17:53
  be. Dark, moodily lit, very
• 17:56
  effective and atmospheric. But why on earth would the
• 17:58
  Doctor want to travel in it? Sylvester McCoy.
• 18:03
  He seemed a little mad from the clip I saw.
• 18:06
  His hair's all sticky out and he seemed rather helpless as the
• 18:09
  new look old fashioned TARDIS control console exploded around
• 18:13
  him and then he and then again. I only got a fleeting glimpse.
• 18:16
  His new smartened up costume is boring.
• 18:19
  All in all, he seems a virtually different character from the
• 18:22
  Doctor. I know and love the story.
• 18:25
  You only saw him for a second. That is a lot of judgement.
• 18:32
  I'm. I'm basing my I'm analysing the
• 18:35
  whole story now on the basis of a 1 1/2 item Newsround.
• 18:39
  It looked fast and furious and exciting, but I don't know
• 18:42
  whether it actually has a plot. Well, you was right there.
• 18:46
  You. The Master.
• 18:50
  Oh dear. I should say that the clip they
• 18:55
  played was from the very fight. In fact, they showed like the
• 18:57
  the final fight between him and the Doctor up and to the point
• 19:01
  where he gets sucked into the thing.
• 19:03
  They weren't worried about spoilers in those days, were
• 19:05
  they? Anyway, I write this.
• 19:07
  He's American, his voice is electronically changed so he
• 19:11
  sounds like a Klingon, and he acts like one too.
• 19:14
  What happened to the menacing figure that was the Master?
• 19:16
  What happened to the beard? Oh.
• 19:18
  My God. First reaction.
• 19:22
  You sound like Gene Vincent Budvinsky when he saw the deadly
• 19:26
  assassin. What's happened to the magic?
• 19:30
  What happened to the beard? First reaction, I felt like
• 19:37
  crying. Oh, no, fair enough.
• 19:39
  It will be entertaining, but it didn't seem to be Doctor Who.
• 19:43
  And when Newsround said Doctor Who was renowned for its wobbly
• 19:47
  scenery and crummy special effects, I felt like finding out
• 19:50
  who wrote it and showing him or her remembrance while
• 19:54
  simultaneously exterminating them in a variety of ways.
• 20:00
  Well, I'm absolutely you would have had them retract the
• 20:03
  statement had you done that. And how old were you?
• 20:08
  How old were you here, 1616? Oh.
• 20:13
  You was an emotionally stunted 16 year old.
• 20:16
  Jesus Christ. I was over this ship by then.
• 20:18
  Go on. May the 15th Everyone at school
• 20:22
  says they they agree the new master is a bit I put master in
• 20:25
  inverted commas. The new master is a bit naff.
• 20:29
  Come back, Anthony Ainley, all is forgiven.
• 20:35
  I am too scared to hear the extract.
• 20:38
  When you finally watched the thing, how long is it?
• 20:44
  Well, let's see if I can find you.
• 20:48
  You, you, you want. Oh, I'm still, I mean, I've got
• 20:50
  entry after entry. I'm still ranting about the
• 20:52
  news. The news.
• 20:55
  Well, because they said it was cheap and Tassie is there.
• 20:57
  Anything else happened in my life?
• 20:59
  Oh, no, because I, I, I, of course other things happened.
• 21:04
  I'm being lent a new video purchase trial of a Time Lord.
• 21:08
  Oh well, there's some golden light in your life then.
• 21:10
  I've just seen Bart's Wonderful and it's much better than I
• 21:13
  expected. The story was enjoyable, even if
• 21:15
  not one of Holmes's best, and Colin Baker's Doctor was far
• 21:18
  more funny and likable than before, less sarcastic and more
• 21:22
  humorous. John Pertwee died this morning.
• 21:25
  Oh God. Oh.
• 21:30
  Do you only talk about Doctor Who in your diary?
• 21:33
  The doctors seem to be dying in the correct order.
• 21:36
  Oh boy. Once again, Doctor Who was
• 21:39
  scathed by the news. I quote The sets were wobbly,
• 21:42
  the monsters unconvincing, but John loved it.
• 21:46
  Where has this fairly recent myth come from?
• 21:51
  They they remember the web planet.
• 21:54
  In fact, it's you telling me that now messages you've become
• 21:59
  that person. Do you know James?
• 22:02
  I think it's rather wonderful. You know, that sort of a young
• 22:05
  age. I mean, I'll say young 16 and a
• 22:08
  sort of a mid teen age that you know, you've, you found your
• 22:12
  voice and you found a, a perfect receptacle to sort of vent all
• 22:17
  of your faults. And then for sort of many years,
• 22:20
  decades, shall we say that though those falls are sort of
• 22:22
  locked in your head for a while. And now through the joy of a
• 22:26
  hamster, a bump pen knife, here we are again reconnecting with
• 22:30
  your 16 year old self where I have known you have a rant or
• 22:35
  two. The you you may have heard this
• 22:39
  already, but the the TV movie novelisations, let's say
• 22:45
  operatic moments, had a a very hysterical James Lark commenting
• 22:52
  on theatre etiquette, shall we say?
• 22:56
  You know, it's a funny 1, isn't it?
• 22:58
  Because I've always said that one of the things I love about
• 23:01
  Doctor Who is that it introduces you to other things that, you
• 23:03
  know, Doctor Who is because it's so broad as a, as a canvas and
• 23:09
  because it's run for such a long time.
• 23:11
  It's, and because every writer brings their own loves and
• 23:16
  passions to, to what they write in Doctor Who.
• 23:19
  It, it, it incorporates a whole bunch of stuff, Doctor Who.
• 23:24
  And I sort of feel I shouldn't admit this, being now a
• 23:28
  professional musician and one with some credibility really, as
• 23:33
  someone who has taught classical music at university level.
• 23:37
  But I first listened to The Rite of Spring because I heard that
• 23:40
  Mark Ayers had based the score of The Curse of Fenrick on it.
• 23:45
  It's beautiful though, That's that's Doctor Who encouraging
• 23:48
  you to find art elsewhere. I first listen to Forays Requiem
• 23:53
  because that's what Miss Hardacre is listening to when
• 23:56
  she gets killed by the Hemovores.
• 23:58
  I first listened to Madame Butterfly because it's in the TV
• 24:01
  movie. So even though Grace has got
• 24:04
  terrible opera etiquette, I've I've heard to thank.
• 24:07
  For not in the movie Shazon, Not in the movie Pretty.
• 24:11
  We can talk about that. Less, less, less terrible than
• 24:13
  in the novelization, certainly. Well, look now, this is always
• 24:17
  already becoming dangerously close to being the longest
• 24:20
  preamble hamster has ever seen before.
• 24:22
  But unfortunately we don't have 8 episodes this time to sort of
• 24:27
  go through all of the diary extracts.
• 24:29
  So I feel like we should have a couple more and we should have
• 24:33
  maybe just a little bit of your initial post viewing extract.
• 24:38
  And then at the end of the movie we'll have the full venom.
• 24:43
  I mean, sorry, love, that's gonna come beaming out of your
• 24:46
  diary. Well, James, I swear there's a
• 24:49
  podcast in your diary, you know. Possibly.
• 24:52
  Yes, Possibly. Maybe.
• 24:53
  Maybe. Certainly a YouTube series.
• 24:55
  Oh, wait. They they already exist.
• 25:01
  OK, you want a bit. You want a bit of this one.
• 25:04
  Yeah, yeah. Come on.
• 25:05
  Yeah, I mean, I want them all but.
• 25:08
  Well, it doesn't start promisingly.
• 25:13
  The first sentence simply says yes.
• 25:20
  The new Doctor Who? Well.
• 25:25
  It's not too angry, you know, It's quite, quite contained.
• 25:29
  Doesn't sound impressed. Do.
• 25:32
  You want any more of it or should we leave them hanging?
• 25:35
  Oh my God. You.
• 25:36
  You're going to leave us on the whom?
• 25:38
  The new Doctor Who. I'll read you the next 3 words.
• 25:42
  OK, go on. It started well.
• 25:47
  Yeah, I'll tell you why. Well, fucking continuity.
• 25:50
  In the first scene, I bet you were like, Oh yes, Gallifro
• 25:54
  Daleks, the Master, bring it on. The second that dead eyed fish
• 25:59
  was being cut into you was just appalled, wasn't you?
• 26:03
  Our bet? I didn't like, yeah, we didn't
• 26:05
  like the dead Eyed fish, but at all, although that's it, you
• 26:08
  know, I, I recognise that there was a, a very clever fade there,
• 26:11
  but I was like, why couldn't you have faded into something like
• 26:14
  the the reflection or Daleks Dome like a proper Doctor Who
• 26:19
  director would? There's.
• 26:22
  Douglas Canfield. There's what I mean.
• 26:25
  I think Jeffrey Sachs does a pretty incredible.
• 26:28
  Job, I think, I think it's, I think it's beautifully directed.
• 26:32
  Even before I knew how pressured the time was and how little time
• 26:38
  he had to make this. And just how baffled he was that
• 26:41
  he was chosen. Yeah, me, I've just been doing a
• 26:45
  few little things over for the BBC.
• 26:47
  You want me to come and? Direct this £5,000,000 telly
• 26:50
  movie okay? I think there's something a
• 26:54
  little bit cruel about the fact that this TV movie sort of
• 26:58
  dangles Sylvester McCoy over you as well, So it's not even.
• 27:03
  Like, you know. I mean, I wouldn't have liked it
• 27:05
  if they if they hadn't done a regeneration, I'd have been, I'd
• 27:08
  have been appalled. But maybe the whole thing would
• 27:11
  have been more palatable because they wouldn't have shot down my
• 27:14
  favorite Doctor and and there's something really undignified
• 27:20
  about the way he dies and. We're going to fight about this
• 27:23
  because I love the way he goes. You, you, you can love that.
• 27:28
  And I and I, I can certainly make the argument myself for how
• 27:31
  that's actually a really kind of powerful thing.
• 27:33
  And, and it was my clue telling you there's something very
• 27:35
  elegant about the this idea that he, you know, he gets killed by
• 27:38
  a doctor and then ends up having to save the universe with the,
• 27:42
  the person, the one person he can get to help him is the, is
• 27:45
  the Doctor Who killed him. That's that's great.
• 27:47
  But remember the mythos that had grown up around Sylvester McCoy.
• 27:51
  So again, like this is kind of totally fanciful expectations.
• 27:55
  But to my mind, the, the the 7th Doctor Who I had only recently
• 28:01
  kind of adopted the new adventures 7th Doctor and thrown
• 28:03
  myself into that and that this doctor is the master manipulator
• 28:07
  needed an apocalyptic ending. So you know.
• 28:12
  That's why I love it. I love the fact that the the
• 28:15
  grand chest master juggling universes and wiping out whole
• 28:20
  worlds dies just stepping out the TARDIS and getting shot.
• 28:26
  I get that now. Tell that to 16 year old James
• 28:30
  Lark though. I could just imagine.
• 28:32
  I just want to see him watching it on the screen, you know,
• 28:35
  like. What's this?
• 28:37
  You know, like I can. Just imagine you screaming out
• 28:40
  loud in horror. The other point I was going to
• 28:44
  make was that we did mention this in the in the book 1,
• 28:49
  whilst it is absolutely our product of its time.
• 28:52
  And that's why I love it now, because it takes me back to a
• 28:55
  moment when I was just immersed in this sort of television and
• 28:59
  there are shot for shot sequences that are like The
• 29:02
  X-Files. There is literally an X-Files
• 29:04
  episode set in and around an ambulance.
• 29:07
  Like how exactly how this is shot.
• 29:09
  You know, it's probably the same director of photography and
• 29:12
  things like that. But I certainly can't deny that
• 29:19
  many, many things from this TV movie that were absent in
• 29:23
  classic Who absolutely became staples of Doctor Who going.
• 29:28
  Oh hell yeah. So actually, as a stepping stone
• 29:31
  between classic and new, it's kind of neat in a lot of ways.
• 29:37
  But it's also, it's simultaneously a kind of a
• 29:42
  missing link and yet a, an alleyway that the, that the
• 29:48
  program didn't take in the end. Because because it's grounded in
• 29:52
  this, this idea of Doctor Who, you know, the the ideas that are
• 29:56
  being developed around him being more of a kind of Indiana Jones
• 29:58
  kind of character, a universal explorer leaping through time
• 30:03
  and think, yeah, we, we've never got that version of the Doctor
• 30:06
  and, and, and nor should we. It's it's a shit.
• 30:08
  Sounds enticing, what are you talking about?
• 30:16
  Oh please, I'd watch it. I'd watch it.
• 30:18
  Look, you remember in DWMRI those fabulous pictures of
• 30:22
  autumns on the streets of New York?
• 30:24
  Do you remember that? But that picture that was drawn?
• 30:26
  The doctor as archaeologist is is is fundamentally
• 30:29
  misunderstanding what's what's fun about the character.
• 30:32
  He's not someone who goes around sensibly excavating stuff.
• 30:35
  That's River Song. Is that what they're doing here
• 30:37
  though? I don't get a sense of that.
• 30:38
  And it's. Not what they're doing here, but
• 30:40
  that's, this is the character that they're setting up and the,
• 30:43
  and the, the aesthetic that they're setting up, you know,
• 30:45
  the, the, the, the TARDIS design, it's, it's beautiful,
• 30:49
  but it's utterly kind of purposeless at the end of the
• 30:53
  day. This Doctor Who travels around
• 30:54
  in a big library That's, you know, that's, that's actually
• 30:58
  not the character that, that people are interested in.
• 31:00
  It's not dynamic. It's, you know, the, the
• 31:02
  character who sits drinking tea in an armchair and listening to
• 31:05
  gramophone records. It's, it's all very kind of HG
• 31:09
  Wells, but it's not actually something that we've ever had in
• 31:12
  Doctor Who. And, and in terms of what came
• 31:15
  back in 2005, really aesthetically carries on from
• 31:19
  what we had in 1989. I mean very literally lands in a
• 31:23
  in a. Yeah, from survival, yes.
• 31:25
  Very similar to one that we've. Just certainly there's a sense
• 31:28
  of romance of the where the appalling conclusions to every
• 31:33
  episode. You know, like they didn't they
• 31:35
  they there are things that Rusty Davis saw in this, I think and
• 31:39
  for you know what that plays to my strengths and I'm going to
• 31:42
  have a bit of that. Yes, they will be a bit of
• 31:45
  kissing. They will be a bit suggestive.
• 31:47
  We will sometimes have a bit more style over substance.
• 31:50
  I mean, you and me to do this lands on kind of brief.
• 31:54
  Well, I, yeah, I I get that. And have I made this comparison
• 32:00
  before? It's a bit like David Bowie
• 32:02
  going into the 80s and you know, you can imagine being there at
• 32:05
  the time and you're a fan of his weird Utrey works in the Berlin
• 32:10
  trilogy. And then he releases Under
• 32:12
  Pressure with Queen and you're like, well, that's fun, but it
• 32:15
  doesn't seem to have much substance.
• 32:18
  And then he releases Let's Dance, which is an album which
• 32:20
  is simply there to to dance to. I mean, there's, there's really
• 32:24
  not much in that album of, of, of particular depth.
• 32:27
  It's just great production. It's just, you know, it's got a
• 32:31
  Sheen and this is like that, isn't it?
• 32:33
  It looks great and it sounds great and there's so much to
• 32:37
  enjoy about it if you're prepared to check your brain out
• 32:41
  of the door, which arguably we should be able to, because if we
• 32:44
  can't check our brains out of the door, then what are we doing
• 32:47
  liking Doctor Who at all? But you have to remember that I
• 32:51
  thought the high watermark was, you know, the Cartmel era and
• 32:54
  maybe kind of bits of the Hinchcliffe era.
• 32:56
  Thinking man's Doctor Who, Doctor Who, You could sit down
• 32:59
  and write whole books about it. I mean, who?
• 33:03
  Who would spend hours everyday writing a lengthy PhD style book
• 33:07
  about Doctor Who? What insanity is this?
• 33:11
  Yeah, well, that word at 16 gets rife.
• 33:15
  Years and years. I hear it takes much research.
• 33:20
  All all very true. All very true.
• 33:22
  But I loved it at the time. I just fucking loved it.
• 33:27
  And me and my friend Mark Potter, right?
• 33:30
  We watched it to death. Like we, how many times would we
• 33:34
  have watched that? That first week, 1015 times.
• 33:37
  And we were at school, we were quoting the lines to each other
• 33:40
  all the time. We were absolutely sure it was
• 33:42
  going to series. We were pitching our own ideas.
• 33:46
  Doctor Who was back, baby. Now obviously that didn't happen
• 33:50
  and I never, ever got swept up in all of the, well, it's the TV
• 33:54
  movies fault. Because.
• 33:55
  Ohh no. That would be make me a terrible
• 33:58
  hypocrite and I continued to watch it as I'm wearing and and
• 34:02
  love it. But it did give me the 8th
• 34:04
  Doctor. It gave me that console.
• 34:06
  It gave me the Big Finish stories with Paul McGann, It
• 34:10
  gave me the EDA's, it gave me the comic strip run that ran
• 34:14
  through. And that was my formative Doctor
• 34:17
  Who. That was my first continuing
• 34:20
  Doctor Who comics, books and audios.
• 34:24
  And what a great time to be alive.
• 34:26
  And that's why I prefer honestly.
• 34:28
  But if you were asked me to rank, yeah, the TV series
• 34:31
  wouldn't come first. It would probably be the books
• 34:34
  cut that would come first because I was just so immersed
• 34:37
  in them at the time. And it all starts here, somewhat
• 34:41
  apologetically, chaotically, entertainingly.
• 34:48
  But it does all start here. Well, sure, we start here.
• 34:51
  Go to San Francisco. Oh God almighty, how long have
• 34:55
  we managed to make that preamble?
• 34:57
  45 minutes, yes. Come on.
• 35:02
  About half the length of the movie.
• 35:04
  That's a whole episode of Doctor Who in 2005.
• 35:07
  Get your bang for your bucket with James Lark on a hamster,
• 35:10
  all right. We'll find out after after we've
• 35:13
  watched this, what James Lark really thought of this.
• 35:15
  Yes. Oh, I can't wait.
• 35:16
  Is it the sort of the length of a dissertation?
• 35:19
  I do hope so. Just a page like you used to
• 35:21
  keep a page a day. Goodness me to have the
• 35:23
  discipline to do that. What a weirdo.
• 35:27
  Oh I know, but you're a weirdo we all love now, so it all
• 35:32
  worked out well in the end. I mean, I think pity maybe,
• 35:36
  rather than love. Excuse me, don't you put words
• 35:39
  in my mouth. If he was here now, you'd want
• 35:42
  to punch him, wouldn't? You.
• 35:44
  Well, I imagine. No, actually I'm not.
• 35:47
  Going to tell you what I imagine.
• 35:50
  Let's go watch the thing. I don't know why.
• 35:53
  I imagine he had quite a high pitched voice.
• 35:55
  I'm hearing Orville, but maybe that could be a bit of an
• 35:58
  exaggeration. I wish I could fly.
• 36:03
  Do you remember Orville? I remember Orville and yeah, I'm
• 36:08
  not sure how to take that, really.
• 36:10
  No, it's because it's because every time you read these direct
• 36:15
  tracks out, you go up about 15 octaves when you get really
• 36:18
  cross. That's why I'm here at Orville.
• 36:21
  OK. Well, you count us in.
• 36:22
  Come on. No way.
• 36:23
  I'll count us in. You started us off.
• 36:25
  Yes, OK, well, I'm going to do it in TV movie.
• 36:30
  You ready 5432? 1.
• 36:39
  And off we go. Did you hear the pop?
• 36:43
  I did hear the pop. Yes, good.
• 36:46
  Thank you. Oh, my word.
• 36:47
  Look at that CGI James. So we're on Scaro.
• 36:51
  I mean, of course, of course it looks great straight away.
• 36:55
  Yeah, why do those planets turn into eyes?
• 36:57
  Like, I don't know and I never, never was fully convinced by
• 37:02
  that. I mean, obviously he's doing
• 37:03
  something kind of clever with the editing there.
• 37:05
  It's a, it's a very well thought out sequence.
• 37:07
  The thing the master standing in is weird, isn't it?
• 37:10
  Why is he? Well it took me about 10 watches
• 37:13
  to realize his head was coming out the top.
• 37:15
  I thought he was inside the the bars.
• 37:17
  And he's and he's and he's. He's like a giant Sabutio man,
• 37:20
  isn't he? Does Gordon rank in your list of
• 37:24
  masters? Gordon Tipple.
• 37:29
  Lingering somewhere near the top, I hope. 01 of my absolute
• 37:32
  favorite masters, yeah. Now it's for you.
• 37:35
  Is this theme tune an abomination or do you love?
• 37:38
  It doesn't work. We'll.
• 37:40
  I know because I really love the percussion.
• 37:43
  I don't. So what's what's happened here
• 37:46
  is they've taken the the the theme and they've tried to they,
• 37:52
  John Debney has, has tried to interpret the theme as a mid 90s
• 37:58
  American style TV theme and it just doesn't work.
• 38:02
  The, the the material is too weird to to fit into that.
• 38:06
  So what he's got is the audience, the audience, the
• 38:09
  orchestra doing this, sort of chugging along, doing a kind of
• 38:12
  what sounds to me like a school and, and the, and the school
• 38:16
  concert band drummer going boom, boom, boom, boom.
• 38:22
  Can you even like the piano? I do like the piano and I think,
• 38:26
  I think the piano is the one thing in the theme that really
• 38:28
  does work for me. It needs different sounds.
• 38:31
  It just it basically you need to do what was done so expertly by
• 38:37
  Murray Gold. You need to actually treat the
• 38:39
  orchestra as a texture rather than the the the carrier of the
• 38:43
  theme. I think this is a magnificent,
• 38:48
  magnificent score on the whole. The thank goodness I was going
• 38:52
  to say we were going to have some problems if you were going.
• 38:54
  To go after the score. I love the score.
• 38:57
  I hated that the first glimpse we get of Sylvester McCoy is
• 39:00
  reflected in a wonky mirror. It does.
• 39:02
  I don't like what they've done with his hair.
• 39:05
  I mean, it's immediately distracting the direction, isn't
• 39:08
  it? The camera don't stop bloody
• 39:09
  moving. It's zooming up and down, left
• 39:11
  and right, round and around. Talk about this amazing set.
• 39:14
  We don't really get to a sense of the scale of the set and I'm,
• 39:19
  I'm afraid, like in long shots like this, it does look a bit
• 39:21
  like a studio. Yeah, but I want you to go back
• 39:23
  and watch The Invasion of Time now and look at the TARDIS
• 39:27
  there, where they can barely light it and it's really dirty.
• 39:30
  I. Know what the image of time
• 39:32
  looks like? You know, now, is it the first
• 39:35
  time we've done this? Because that is absolutely the
• 39:37
  new series that TARDIS sort of coming towards you like that.
• 39:39
  I know we've done Tardises on strings and things, but like in
• 39:43
  a particularly sophisticated way.
• 39:46
  I'm not sure I would would say that stands out to me as a
• 39:50
  first. No.
• 39:53
  You quite like that bit in time in the Rani.
• 39:54
  Has it been buffeted around space well?
• 39:56
  I'll tell you what time in the Rani has which that doesn't is
• 40:00
  an A sense of chaos, and I'd say that.
• 40:03
  As well for the the the title sequence in the in the late 80s,
• 40:07
  it's got this sense of a a thing just being thrown through time,
• 40:12
  not this kind of polite meander through a time tunnel.
• 40:15
  I don't think the title sequence is is especially inventive in
• 40:18
  this and. It can be too busy sometimes,
• 40:21
  you say now RTD 21 where he's jumping universes and things.
• 40:26
  Agree about that as well. I just think that if, if, if
• 40:30
  people were minded to think that this was a bit of a throwback
• 40:33
  and Doctor Who was a bit of a, you know, a dead product, then
• 40:38
  doing the kind of a slightly wafty 90s version of the time
• 40:43
  tunnel is probably not the way I would have done it.
• 40:47
  I'd have again, it's, it's trying to, it's it.
• 40:49
  It feels to me like something that's trying to make it a bit
• 40:52
  more conventional, whereas they should have lent into the
• 40:54
  weirdness of it. I don't know why I still do, and
• 40:58
  I did. Then that jumping cup I just
• 41:01
  thought was the coldest thing ever.
• 41:03
  It's sort of very Warriors Gate, you know?
• 41:04
  It's just sort of random things leaping up into the air like
• 41:07
  that. And then the arm coming off the
• 41:09
  record, all of this sequence I watched, I mean this was the bit
• 41:12
  that was on news. I watched this again and I I
• 41:15
  remember the bit that I watched most was the 1st 10 minutes up
• 41:20
  to the fish head. Oh, Sylvester McCoy stuff, of
• 41:23
  course. All of this, but I I think you
• 41:26
  get the TARDIS interior at its best as well.
• 41:29
  I do love that you love the the scanner that he pulls down.
• 41:32
  I love that I'm. Not sure what's got.
• 41:35
  These gothic candles all melted, or look, they're all melted into
• 41:39
  the bloody side. What's going on there?
• 41:42
  Isn't it? Yeah.
• 41:44
  Well, do you remember at the latter end of the New Adventures
• 41:46
  where they put him in this console room?
• 41:48
  Do you remember? It's sort of.
• 41:50
  It's in the last couple of stories.
• 41:51
  I imagine it was Chris going about the place just sort of
• 41:55
  melting beeswax and things. I always thought this was Chang
• 41:58
  Lee's mum and dad. That's very racist of me, isn't
• 42:01
  it? It is a little no.
• 42:02
  I think they're just, I think it's just establishing a
• 42:04
  location and I hated all of this gang stuff.
• 42:09
  Why when I was a kid, I was gums and and people going around
• 42:14
  murdering people on the streets. I mean, this is cruelly.
• 42:17
  This was my life. That's maybe the the difference.
• 42:20
  We didn't. We didn't have wangs in
• 42:24
  Cheltenham. Of course.
• 42:26
  Yeah. Well, yes, yeah.
• 42:28
  This was just like going to school for me.
• 42:32
  I don't know it, it felt again, again, it's the, it's a, it's a
• 42:37
  thing they wouldn't do now because because now if they
• 42:40
  wanted to appeal to an American audience, they would do it in
• 42:42
  London. They would make it, you know,
• 42:44
  quintessentially, quintessentially English.
• 42:47
  Well, look at the few times they tried it in Moffett time and I
• 42:50
  think there as well. It starts to but almost feel not
• 42:53
  like Doctor Who, you know. Yeah, I agree.
• 42:55
  Astronaut and stuff like that. So I can, I can totally
• 42:59
  appreciate now that this is this, this does something quite
• 43:03
  unique and quite wonderful really, which is to land the
• 43:05
  TARDIS and, and, and lean into the oddness of that, the TARDIS
• 43:09
  landing in San Francisco. But to me, like, you know, the
• 43:13
  sort of smoky backstreets of San Francisco, I couldn't think of
• 43:16
  anything cooler when I was young watching this.
• 43:20
  So little me was thinking, but why is why does it how it will
• 43:24
  have to be a night? Doctor Who is set in the
• 43:26
  daytime. We've talked about about this
• 43:28
  before. Doctor Who is a walk in the
• 43:29
  country with your parents, isn't it?
• 43:31
  Doctor Who is the places that we used to go and we were dragged
• 43:35
  on holiday. Similar issue with the empty
• 43:36
  child. Did you?
• 43:37
  That was all set at night. Oh, Sylvester.
• 43:41
  No, I love the fact that even with, you know, all the extra
• 43:47
  money thrown at him all of the time between 89 and 96, yeah, he
• 43:52
  still struggles with his dialogue timing malfunction.
• 43:57
  Like he's still, he's still eccentric over the talent.
• 44:04
  I would probably suggest. So.
• 44:06
  So what happened to the rest of Chang Lee's gang?
• 44:09
  That's weird. They just sort of disappeared.
• 44:10
  Well, yes, in fact, the other version, you know, when you see
• 44:13
  all of them dying, it's fabulous.
• 44:15
  That's really well directed that.
• 44:17
  It's well directed. It's it's nasty.
• 44:19
  Yeah, well, what about what a bit of nasty in Doctor Who.
• 44:22
  You said you was watching mid 70s Doctor Who.
• 44:24
  That's quite nasty at times. What the invasion of time?
• 44:29
  Maybe not the. Invasion of Time, go back a
• 44:32
  season. Oh, here we go.
• 44:36
  Now we're going to be introduced to Bruce, our Eric Roberts.
• 44:40
  Do you think there's a bit of an issue with the fact that he
• 44:43
  looks so different here? The the the masters aesthetic is
• 44:49
  all black and hair swept back. If you're not watching closely
• 44:53
  you you could miss the fact that this was the same guy.
• 44:57
  I think when I watched it I got it.
• 45:00
  It's actually what I did when the snake leapt down his throat
• 45:03
  and then he murdered his wife. I see what you're saying.
• 45:07
  No like. But you are right, none of this
• 45:11
  feels like Doctor Who at all. This feels like a mid 90s drama
• 45:14
  at this. Point feels like, and this is
• 45:16
  this is one of the oddities of it is at the moment we're in a
• 45:19
  medical drama and US medical dramas were were all over the
• 45:24
  place in the mid 90s, weren't they?
• 45:26
  But I think. This would have been the age of
• 45:28
  ER, right? Oh, absolutely, yeah, I think
• 45:32
  yeah. And it was all scenes like this,
• 45:34
  wasn't it? People rushing down corridors,
• 45:35
  bodies coming in, the ambulance is pulling up, all very
• 45:38
  exciting. So.
• 45:39
  So presumably every British housewife who watched the ER is
• 45:43
  is getting their fix. Oh, if only they could have had
• 45:45
  it. Is not, you know, I'm like, but
• 45:46
  this isn't Doctor Who. There's a there's a morphin
• 45:50
  snake slivering about in that ambulance.
• 45:53
  So there is. Yeah, what do you?
• 45:55
  Think of the snake. Has that aged well?
• 45:58
  As well as it go and watch Babylon 5 all right before you
• 46:02
  start questioning the CGI and how well that's aged in this.
• 46:05
  There are a lot of scenes now where the camera lingers around
• 46:10
  this the interior of this ambulance whilst the snake sort
• 46:14
  of slivers about the place. In a weird way, this empty
• 46:18
  ambulance was was I was getting more of a sense of Doctor Who
• 46:21
  from that than than from any of these kind of double, double
• 46:24
  exposure. But that is the scene from
• 46:26
  Spearhead from Space. No, but they don't play it like
• 46:29
  this, do they? But it's the same.
• 46:31
  Scene It's the same scene but with but they're they're far
• 46:34
  less posh in this. Yeah.
• 46:35
  Oh, God, look at all that blood on Sylvester Mccoy's shirt.
• 46:40
  Oh boy, oh boy. He's not felt this much pain
• 46:44
  since he last acted with Sophie Aldridge.
• 46:48
  Oh, I thought we were going to cut to Amazing Grayson, but
• 46:51
  nowhere back in the ambulance. Back in the end, but I love, but
• 46:53
  I love these lingering shots because it was just kind of
• 46:56
  Moody shots and incidental music.
• 46:59
  That's Doctor Who. Oh, OK, enough of this.
• 47:04
  Or drama that's playing out. Good grief.
• 47:06
  We've got flashing lights, we've got that.
• 47:09
  That is a shot that could have come from the.
• 47:10
  Class Oh, that was a bloody bullet.
• 47:12
  I'm surprised that that stayed in oh now here was our big
• 47:17
  complaint in the book who's on tonight?
• 47:19
  Amazing Grace, which became. Grace Kelly, can you see that
• 47:25
  woman there who looks just like Grace Kelly?
• 47:28
  Yeah, no, I see Daphne Ashbrook, the woman who asked my partner
• 47:33
  to marry me. Genuinely.
• 47:37
  Has gone to the opera with her bleeper turned on.
• 47:41
  That man behind her with the with the beard is being a lot
• 47:44
  more patient than I would have been.
• 47:45
  Yeah. Look.
• 47:45
  The woman doesn't look too happy though.
• 47:47
  Look at her face. Though Brian in the novel
• 47:50
  doesn't understand opera and he's quite cross to be there.
• 47:52
  You can Brian on who we just saw there and that's the last we're
• 47:56
  going to see of him. He looks pretty pissed off and I
• 47:59
  have to say my my sympathy is kind of with Brian at this
• 48:03
  moment. What, you don't think she should
• 48:05
  go and save a man's life? She should sit out.
• 48:08
  Butterfly. Was that the beautiful song that
• 48:11
  you was talking about 1. Fine day.
• 48:13
  Is she singing that in this? Is that is that?
• 48:16
  That's the moment, yeah. That's wonderful, James,
• 48:22
  Wonderful. Paul Mcgahn tries later.
• 48:24
  Oh, I love this woman, Curtis. She gets all the comedy lines,
• 48:28
  doesn't she? Doctor Holloway?
• 48:30
  It's Brian. Oh, sorry.
• 48:33
  I think she's great. I think having all of those
• 48:36
  extraneous sort of comedy characters in this, it is a good
• 48:40
  idea because it provides entertainment at times where
• 48:43
  there is none. I guess so.
• 48:47
  They're not comedy characters as as would have been written by
• 48:50
  Douglas Adams though, are they? You've got to stop comparing
• 48:53
  everything to the 70s, all right?
• 48:55
  OK, was giving you context. I'm trying to explain what was.
• 48:59
  Going we're in the 90s. Oh, this?
• 49:04
  Was Sylvester Mccoys idea wasn't it?
• 49:06
  Do you remember? To grab her mask, it's a good
• 49:08
  idea. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:09
  So we could actually see her face.
• 49:11
  You just hear all those horror stories of Sylvester McCoy on
• 49:14
  the set in the 80s, don't you? And they were just trying
• 49:17
  desperately to get the shots in. And he's going, ah, let's try
• 49:19
  this, let's try that. But actually that is a good
• 49:22
  idea. That overlit shot of her,
• 49:25
  that's, that's very mid 90s isn't it?
• 49:27
  Whenever they wanted to show alien point of view in The
• 49:29
  X-Files, just turn the turn the bright, turn the highs up.
• 49:34
  Oh, I love this was Mark Potter's favorite line timing
• 49:37
  malfunction. The Master.
• 49:39
  He's out there. Bob.
• 49:41
  Sylvester, you need to die. Get down on that bed.
• 49:44
  Come on. Yeah.
• 49:47
  I think it do you know what to give him his due in because
• 49:50
  you're not going to. I think he's matching the
• 49:52
  melodrama of the, when you consider the whole production,
• 49:55
  we we're, we're not listening to the music at the moment, but the
• 49:57
  way this is played, the way this is edited actually calls for
• 50:00
  someone giving it some on the on the acting front.
• 50:03
  I actually think this is some of the best work he does in Doctor
• 50:06
  Who. I certainly the stuff at the
• 50:09
  start where he's completely silent, and I don't mean that as
• 50:13
  an insult, it's because he has genuine gravitas in those scenes
• 50:17
  in a way. He.
• 50:18
  Rarely did in the 80s. And the physical performer so.
• 50:21
  He's and he's not Lombard with well, you know who.
• 50:24
  So now, is that John Novak? Where?
• 50:28
  Looking down. I think he's going to blast up
• 50:30
  of lasers. That guy.
• 50:32
  That guy. I always found it.
• 50:34
  Confusing John Novak 6th credited after Eric Roberts and
• 50:39
  and. He's only in that scene and.
• 50:41
  Right, So what's going on? There.
• 50:43
  Oh God, I don't know. Although he he did get a
• 50:46
  detailed back story in the novelisation though.
• 50:49
  Well, yes, so did the man who empties the bins.
• 50:52
  So did the woman who's with him. The the the the title sequence
• 50:58
  every time I watched it after this, and obviously this is pre
• 51:02
  IMDb, I'd be like who? Who the hell is John Novak?
• 51:06
  Who's getting this major whooshy credit?
• 51:10
  I probably thought it was the master at the star, you know?
• 51:13
  Oh, Gordon Tipple doesn't. Get, you said melodramatic.
• 51:16
  Nothing's better than this, where she's got her hands up in
• 51:19
  the air as the opera's playing around her like, Oh my God, he's
• 51:23
  going to die. I mean, that's, that's good,
• 51:26
  isn't it? That's, that's a, a, a, a
• 51:29
  dramatic way of doing this. You know what What could have
• 51:32
  been a a very ordinary hospital scene.
• 51:37
  Can we just address how good Daphne Ashbrook is in this?
• 51:41
  Because I I really then I found her vivid.
• 51:45
  Now I agree with Michael. I think it's the first sort of
• 51:49
  serious attempt to put an adult in Doctor Who as a companion,
• 51:54
  and I think she matches Paul Mcgahn beat for beat in this.
• 51:59
  I don't actually think she's as good an actor as Paul Mcgahn,
• 52:02
  but she's as good as him in this I.
• 52:03
  Think she is as good as him in this and they and they have an
• 52:06
  instant chemistry as well. She's so beautiful, isn't she?
• 52:10
  Well. The shots of her running through
• 52:12
  the hospital in slow motion. That opera dress is just
• 52:15
  wonderful. What about Youji?
• 52:17
  So then. I think he, I think he's very
• 52:25
  good. I don't know that he's given a
• 52:28
  huge amount to work with, and I think the fact that I feel quite
• 52:32
  fondly towards this character has much more to do with him
• 52:35
  than the lines he's given to say.
• 52:37
  Because he's actually unpleasant.
• 52:39
  Yeah, until the last scene. So the fact that he's likeable
• 52:42
  is entirely down to him. Why is he in the hospital?
• 52:44
  Why is he waiting around? You know, he's, he's taken at
• 52:47
  the doctor at the hospital and he's he sat there to find out
• 52:50
  what I don't think there's an ulterior motive.
• 52:52
  Then obviously now he's about to try and make off with the Doctor
• 52:55
  Sonic screwdriver which. Can I just say that if I was the
• 52:58
  person who took all the orders for the coffees, yeah, who in a
• 53:02
  minute loses all of those coffees as Chang Lee runs into
• 53:06
  him, I'd have been so pissed off.
• 53:08
  Do you know the bit I'm talking about?
• 53:10
  I do, yeah. Yeah, look, oh boy.
• 53:15
  It could be medicine. Actually, it could be medicine
• 53:18
  in. In oh, do you think, do you
• 53:19
  think we should chalk up some more deaths?
• 53:23
  Yeah, patients who didn't get their medicine.
• 53:25
  Oh, did you see how possum sort of hiked up in that dress there?
• 53:29
  They knew what they were doing. What do you think of the the
• 53:32
  Sonic screwdriver in this? Yeah, I love it.
• 53:37
  It's a great. Design, isn't it?
• 53:38
  Yeah. Well, yeah, but then I think the
• 53:40
  TARDIS is a great design. So I'm, I'm, I'm very, I'm not
• 53:44
  sure I can be. I can give you a a objective
• 53:49
  opinion on it, but they've not. Tried to reinvent the wheel with
• 53:51
  the Sonic screwdriver. They've they've gone, you know,
• 53:53
  the the thing that Tom Baker had that looked good.
• 53:56
  Let's just make one of those a little bit.
• 53:59
  Well, it's the same with the logo, isn't it?
• 54:00
  Oh, that part we want was quite good.
• 54:02
  Let's do something a bit like that.
• 54:03
  Name a better logo than the one in this.
• 54:06
  I know, and they're all over the EDASI.
• 54:08
  Love it. It's great.
• 54:10
  It's a, it's a, it's such an, A beautiful, elegant logo.
• 54:13
  Name a worse logo than that Sylvester McCoy one.
• 54:16
  Oh boy, that is ugly, isn't it? I think the Neon 10.
• 54:22
  Gosh, that's nostalgia talking, all right.
• 54:27
  Oh my word, the snake just came right at me.
• 54:30
  It did. We get a lot of Sebastian Coe's
• 54:33
  feet in this. Don't we?
• 54:34
  Yes. I can't say they're pleasant to
• 54:35
  look at, if I'm honest. It's.
• 54:39
  Would he be my age now? Sort of 45?
• 54:43
  A bit older. No bit old, bit up.
• 54:45
  Oh, OK, because my feet look better than that.
• 54:48
  Oh, I suppose he's. Dead.
• 54:49
  You've not been in a film set, have you?
• 54:51
  No, he's dead. He's supposed to be dead.
• 54:53
  Like, come on. Give him a break.
• 54:56
  Oh, this guy, Pete. He should be in the credits.
• 55:00
  Why is Pete not in the credits? Why is John Novak in the
• 55:03
  credits? Yeah, well, everyone write in
• 55:06
  Who is John What? Do you want to know?
• 55:11
  Party on. That should be our our social
• 55:13
  media tag for for Megan. What hashtag?
• 55:18
  Who is John? Oh boy.
• 55:24
  Oh, in a minute. You know the cross cutting with
• 55:26
  Frankenstein? I just love it.
• 55:29
  You want to talk melodrama? It is, it's, I mean, I think
• 55:35
  it's really well conceived. It's part, it's one of the
• 55:38
  issues of the TV movie is that we spend the first half an hour
• 55:41
  just regenerating the Doctor and and.
• 55:44
  Oh, it's a ridiculous, absolutely ridiculous.
• 55:47
  Yeah, yeah, Yeah, it was. Two hours long.
• 55:49
  Like if it could have the structure of Tim Burton's first
• 55:53
  Batman movie where the first half hour is the creation of
• 55:56
  Batman and the Joker. Well, not the creation of
• 55:59
  Batman, but it sort of establishes the back story then,
• 56:01
  then fine. But you can't in a nine well 85
• 56:04
  minute movie you're you're spending the 1st 30 minutes.
• 56:08
  And because it didn't go to a series, that means you've only
• 56:10
  got an hour of Paul McGann. And that's a shame, right?
• 56:13
  I mean, immediately we've had a lot more of him since on audio,
• 56:16
  especially Dreams. Have you ever had anything that
• 56:20
  thick slide down your throat before?
• 56:22
  I haven't though, I tell you what, I've I've heard snoring
• 56:25
  like that. Oh really?
• 56:27
  Places. Really.
• 56:29
  What? You're over off.
• 56:30
  Yeah, I'm afraid so. Yeah, apparently that's me in my
• 56:33
  relationship, so I won't throw any stones.
• 56:36
  Apparently I'm more than make up for it by being a duvet thief
• 56:39
  so. Yes, that's me as well.
• 56:43
  In fact, it's not really fun being with me, you know, I'm all
• 56:46
  every, every issue. Oh, what?
• 56:48
  How did Gary Russell describe this movie again?
• 56:51
  Moons and planets and a bit like the Peter Davidson theme tune.
• 56:56
  No. Do you remember Frankenstein?
• 56:58
  He said it. Was sorry Frankenstein a really
• 57:00
  what was a really NAF version? A really NAF movie version of
• 57:04
  Frankenstein I think. I watched that this year for
• 57:07
  when Rob Valentine and I did Brain and Morbius.
• 57:12
  That was beautiful and it was so succinct. 70 minutes.
• 57:18
  Perfect. Did you watch The Bride of
• 57:19
  Frankenstein as well? Yeah, that I found very
• 57:22
  eccentric. Again, beautifully made.
• 57:24
  Weird, but all that stuff in the castle at the end and when they
• 57:28
  blow it up at the. Yeah, gorgeous.
• 57:31
  I don't know if you noticed, but you know your sort of face
• 57:35
  gymnastics during the regeneration there.
• 57:38
  Sylvester McCoy sort of goes at it with some gumption, doesn't
• 57:41
  he's? Been given one last opportunity
• 57:43
  to do some faces. Whereas Paul McCann,
• 57:46
  unfortunately, he's like, oh really?
• 57:49
  So he just sort of looks a bit like he's got a polo in his
• 57:51
  mouth, but. It's a good read.
• 57:54
  It's a good effect, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 57:56
  But it's very funny that Paul McGann just doesn't do it with
• 57:59
  anywhere near as much gumption. Oh, this where the bloody thing?
• 58:06
  The door bursts down? What's that all about?
• 58:08
  Has he got superhuman strength? I don't know why is the master a
• 58:12
  snake? Maybe there'll be some answers
• 58:16
  in the in the novelisation. No, you need to wait till you
• 58:19
  get to Terror Sticks. This is the 8 Doctors and you'll
• 58:21
  learn all about Morphin snakes all right, and how we went to
• 58:25
  the planet Terserus, recently seen in The Deadly Assassin.
• 58:28
  So you would be happy because there's a 70s reference, but
• 58:31
  that's where he obtained the morphin snake.
• 58:33
  Yeah, well, I hope that at the same time he'll fix a load of
• 58:36
  this American stuff and put the TARDIS back to how he.
• 58:39
  Absolutely. He does that on page one.
• 58:42
  Weird, incomprehensible events the doctor remembers it as Oh,
• 58:47
  there he is. Look at Paul McGann.
• 58:50
  Had you said it? Mr. Darcy as played by Paul
• 58:53
  McGann. Oh boy.
• 58:56
  I think I was finding all of this a bit too intense though.
• 58:59
  Like where are the jokes? Well, his I guess this.
• 59:02
  Is you're going to get some. I know, I know.
• 59:05
  You just got to hang around for it, you know, an hour.
• 59:13
  Oh, this shot, James, look at the.
• 59:15
  Twisted corridor shot. And the silhouettes as well.
• 59:18
  It looks like one of your covers look.
• 59:19
  No, I'll tell you what it looks like.
• 59:21
  The X-Files. That's what it looks like.
• 59:22
  Yeah, but that is a beautiful shot regardless.
• 59:25
  It's. A great shot.
• 59:29
  I was always very confused as to why the area he goes into now
• 59:34
  looks like it's just been. Through.
• 59:36
  A tornado. What's with this deserted bit of
• 59:39
  the hospital? There is a line, there's a line
• 59:41
  about a storming coming and they're going to have to close
• 59:43
  off a bit of wing, but it's in the background.
• 59:45
  It's not even a character saying it.
• 59:48
  There is a line, yeah. Where?
• 59:51
  No, not now, earlier. Who said it?
• 59:54
  Did John Govac say that line? Maybe.
• 59:56
  Maybe. No.
• 59:59
  I hope. I like it.
• 1:00:00
  To think it's the precursor to Trinity Wells, the lady of girls
• 1:00:03
  in Hawaii. It has even started snowing.
• 1:00:08
  Oh. That part, some more great shots
• 1:00:10
  coming out. So these these these shots of
• 1:00:11
  his reflection were in the trailer.
• 1:00:15
  Oh, is this what Wendy's in all the mirrors?
• 1:00:17
  Look at the mirrors. And I love it on the glass, on
• 1:00:20
  the floor, the. Glass on the floor because you
• 1:00:22
  see him move as well. But why is there all these scary
• 1:00:25
  dollies? I know, but.
• 1:00:29
  Surely, surely you're happy. This is just like watching
• 1:00:31
  Warriors gate now for God's. Sakes that should Mira shot.
• 1:00:34
  I don't like this one because suddenly we're in the Shawshank
• 1:00:37
  Redemption. Yeah, well, unfortunately
• 1:00:39
  Russell was paying it. Ah yes, the doctor is the second
• 1:00:41
  coming as Jesus. That could be a good idea do.
• 1:00:45
  You think we could make more of this analogy?
• 1:00:49
  I've got an idea. I could have robotic angels
• 1:00:52
  having him ascend to heaven on Christmas to save Kylie Minogue.
• 1:00:57
  Oh. My God.
• 1:00:58
  Sorry, my Welsh accent. There that.
• 1:01:00
  That shot is a bit over the top, isn't it?
• 1:01:02
  Yeah. Oh, I always love a fade, James.
• 1:01:05
  The last time we saw a fade like that in Doctor Who, Do you know
• 1:01:07
  when it was? No, you're going to have to tell
• 1:01:13
  me. It's a commentary we did.
• 1:01:15
  It was Delta and the bannermen. Delta.
• 1:01:16
  Yeah. And I Doctor Who so rarely does
• 1:01:19
  I fade to the morning like that and I just love it.
• 1:01:23
  I remember feeling just an overwhelming sense of relief
• 1:01:27
  that some of this was set in daylight and we actually got to
• 1:01:30
  see this doctor in the broad light of day and this.
• 1:01:34
  Is. A bloody scarf.
• 1:01:36
  Look, we're doing the time of the Ronnie sequence here, but in
• 1:01:39
  the book, of course, Sylvester Mccoy's hat's there.
• 1:01:42
  There's all sorts, isn't there? Yeah, there's got an object from
• 1:01:45
  every story. Yeah.
• 1:01:48
  Can make us brooch. I just like I, I really just
• 1:01:51
  love the atmosphere. It's.
• 1:01:54
  Lovely. And this is a beautiful bit of
• 1:01:55
  under score as well. John Debney.
• 1:01:57
  We've not talked about him, John.
• 1:01:58
  Debney went on to a lot of stuff, didn't he?
• 1:02:01
  Do you know? Do you know one of the films he
• 1:02:02
  scored? He scored Mel Gibson's furiously
• 1:02:07
  anti-Semitic The Passion of the Christ.
• 1:02:10
  Oh really? This was his practice.
• 1:02:12
  This was his practice. In fact, someone ought to to to
• 1:02:15
  to compare the scores and see what he.
• 1:02:17
  At at one point he was a job in director and he randomly scored
• 1:02:21
  two season 1 episodes of Star Trek Deep Space 9 with none of
• 1:02:26
  the flair of what he does here. So I was quite worried about the
• 1:02:32
  music because I was, it was one of the things I really kind of
• 1:02:35
  got into under score. I was going through my phase of
• 1:02:37
  kind of taping, taping off the telly bits of Doctor Who under
• 1:02:41
  score that didn't have any talking over.
• 1:02:43
  So I made my own compilation albums and I and I thought they,
• 1:02:46
  you know, that they can't give it a kind of a vacuous Star Trek
• 1:02:50
  score. And they didn't.
• 1:02:51
  And I, and one of the things that I was really pleased with
• 1:02:54
  from from the outset was, was the music, which I thought was
• 1:02:57
  excellent And, and it and it is, it stands up really well.
• 1:03:00
  A surprise to me now though, is the realisation that it wasn't,
• 1:03:04
  as I imagined at the time, a a full orchestra playing it.
• 1:03:10
  Is it electronic? It's There are a few real
• 1:03:13
  instruments in there, but as is entirely typical for a thing of
• 1:03:16
  this budget, which is kind of big for Doctor Who, but not
• 1:03:18
  actually huge for, for, you know, an American Co production,
• 1:03:23
  it's mostly samples. It's just that samples have
• 1:03:26
  reached such a point of, of, of excellence by 1996 that they are
• 1:03:31
  pretty convincing. But if you think about the
• 1:03:34
  score, it's got a lot of other sounds in there, which which
• 1:03:37
  makes the theme arrangement even more baffling to my mind.
• 1:03:40
  Because if he's prepared to kind of put in these strange sounds
• 1:03:43
  and, you know, bits of harpsichord and stuff in.
• 1:03:46
  That's mad, that bit. It's mad, but it's brilliant and
• 1:03:50
  I feel like that he could have been a bit more daring with the
• 1:03:53
  theme as well. I think there's only a couple of
• 1:03:55
  times as well when he goes in, there is one moment where it is
• 1:03:59
  full on Indiana Jones when they're coming down on that part
• 1:04:03
  on that, that fire hose and it goes Oh my God.
• 1:04:11
  But no, I I think it's I think it's one of the best scores we
• 1:04:13
  ever had. I've.
• 1:04:14
  Just it's, of course it's got, you know, it's got shades of, of
• 1:04:20
  all kinds of influence in this score.
• 1:04:23
  And of course, it's got shades of of what was then kind of the
• 1:04:25
  sort of standard American adventure drama scoring.
• 1:04:30
  What I think I was worried about was what was kind of standard
• 1:04:34
  for a lot of Trek, which was kind of a wallpaper and sort of
• 1:04:41
  very. Boring kind of music.
• 1:04:42
  Very boring. Very boring.
• 1:04:45
  Sometimes they will just do like a whole scene and then just go
• 1:04:48
  into the ad break on like a sting and that's the music.
• 1:04:51
  It's so tedious. And this is the score with
• 1:04:55
  really thoughtful thematic development as well.
• 1:04:59
  And and the way that themes return and and it's not like
• 1:05:03
  motif at all, but it but certainly there's a kind of
• 1:05:06
  doctor leaps into action theme and there's a a master is
• 1:05:10
  sinister theme. And and it does kind of build to
• 1:05:13
  a point where these these themes come together.
• 1:05:15
  But also Murray Gold's been paying attention as well because
• 1:05:19
  the bit where Pete faints, you get the Murray Gold's like riot
• 1:05:24
  comedy. We need more of that, yeah.
• 1:05:26
  And then the climax, it all goes full on the Dalek chorus,
• 1:05:30
  doesn't it? Like, oh, that.
• 1:05:32
  Gets them going, but that's that's.
• 1:05:34
  OK, in the climax right we're. Talking over John Novak's bit.
• 1:05:38
  Yeah, possibly John Novak. Possibly John Novak, possibly
• 1:05:42
  the people who tuned in just to watch John Novak, thought that
• 1:05:45
  this it was just about to kind of come alive now.
• 1:05:48
  See, and I young, I thought this was the greatest thing I was
• 1:05:51
  ever going to say. My God, corruption in the
• 1:05:53
  hospital. I.
• 1:05:54
  Think look at how well lit it is.
• 1:05:58
  I just believe in Grace as well, like like she's a fully formed
• 1:06:02
  companion really. They don't really have to do
• 1:06:06
  anything at the end for her to just step in the TARDIS.
• 1:06:09
  It's not like a classic series companion where you sort of
• 1:06:11
  flesh them out as you go along. I wonder what other stuff he's
• 1:06:15
  covered up in the hospital. If it had gone to series, do you
• 1:06:18
  think John Novak would have been a major kind of shadowy
• 1:06:20
  character? What's what's he burned this
• 1:06:24
  week? All the most corrupt cases in
• 1:06:26
  House and Grey's Anatomy. John Novak was there covering it
• 1:06:30
  all up. Yeah, that's it.
• 1:06:34
  I mean, I'm going to say though, I'm, I'm almost willing to bet
• 1:06:37
  she's on serious sort of 6 figure money.
• 1:06:40
  I'm not sure I'll be so quick to quit.
• 1:06:44
  And that's her. That's her leaving, is it?
• 1:06:46
  She's got all her. Yeah.
• 1:06:48
  That's that's of course, that's television language for I'm.
• 1:06:50
  I'm out of here. Look, look, her photographs
• 1:06:53
  there. That's her and Brian there on
• 1:06:54
  the top. Oh.
• 1:06:56
  Nice. What's that she's got on the
• 1:06:57
  top? There is that a fan?
• 1:07:00
  Oh, I don't know. Oh, now this is very nice.
• 1:07:04
  Like you said, instant chemistry.
• 1:07:06
  This weirdo whispering. In.
• 1:07:09
  In area. His hair is a mistake, isn't it?
• 1:07:14
  Well, even he thought that. Oh, he knew it.
• 1:07:16
  Of course he. Of course he thought it.
• 1:07:18
  Of course he. When he had a chance to do a
• 1:07:20
  furrow shoot for dark eyes, he was like, well, yeah, but I'm
• 1:07:22
  not putting the wig on. I'll have some hair, but not
• 1:07:26
  that much. I I see what they're going for.
• 1:07:30
  Dylan told me that he was. Yeah.
• 1:07:37
  He knows people on TV and he wonders.
• 1:07:41
  The fella he knows wondered if Paul McGann hadn't been made to
• 1:07:45
  look like he was in fancy dress with that stupid wig that
• 1:07:49
  actually this might have got picked up but it just looks like
• 1:07:53
  2 execs a bit of a joke. I think that's fair.
• 1:08:01
  Is that the first time we've seen the doctor's nipple?
• 1:08:04
  Oh no, we saw Sylvester Mccoy's earlier, didn't we?
• 1:08:07
  We've seen John Bertie's tattoos as well, haven't we?
• 1:08:10
  Sort of his butt as well. Pull something out of his body
• 1:08:14
  in such a graphic detail though. Oh, wow, exactly.
• 1:08:17
  It's not the last reference of that, though.
• 1:08:19
  Don't you remember that line in Orphan 55?
• 1:08:22
  She goes, my friends just pulled this out of himself and there
• 1:08:24
  were the big Catwoman goes, we try not to judge people here on
• 1:08:28
  Orphan 55. Look the Terminator's here.
• 1:08:34
  So again, if you hadn't been paying attention, he looks so
• 1:08:37
  different in this shot and his hair has changed colour now.
• 1:08:40
  Well, it's it seems longer as well, yeah.
• 1:08:43
  You you might be forgiven for not making the connection.
• 1:08:46
  No, I don't like the pit where he peels off his nail though.
• 1:08:49
  That's really gross. Because because they don't do
• 1:08:52
  the thing where he gradually kind of falls apart, it doesn't
• 1:08:55
  kind of lead to anything. So.
• 1:08:57
  Oh. Is that what that was supposed
• 1:08:58
  to be? I don't know explain it
• 1:09:01
  otherwise. Yes.
• 1:09:04
  Our fingernail is we're yes, we're into Jeff Goldblum
• 1:09:08
  territory, aren't we? That's horrible.
• 1:09:10
  What? And the probe coming out of the
• 1:09:11
  Doctor just a second ago was horrible too.
• 1:09:13
  So some pretty icky stuff made it into the PG version or the 12
• 1:09:17
  version Sorry as well. And then the line the Asian
• 1:09:20
  child also made it in. Yes, indeed, and in the book and
• 1:09:25
  in the 20 twenties version of the.
• 1:09:27
  Book when she says, Bruce, you're sick.
• 1:09:28
  Is that to the Asian child, or him peeling off his fingernail,
• 1:09:32
  or just a bit of both? I think no.
• 1:09:34
  No, because she goes the Asian child.
• 1:09:36
  Oh, Bruce, you're sick. So peeling off a fingernail?
• 1:09:40
  That's OK. Fine racism.
• 1:09:43
  Racism that is in. This hospital, all right, We are
• 1:09:45
  not in South Carolina here, OK. And by the way that I said that
• 1:09:49
  sounding sarcastic, I entirely agree with that standard.
• 1:09:52
  You peel your fingernails off all you like, folks, but racism
• 1:09:56
  is bad. This is the moment James Fields
• 1:09:58
  is utterly justified, Brian taking the sofa because Grace
• 1:10:03
  constantly leaves in the middle of the operas.
• 1:10:06
  Good seats though, weren't they? That would have been an
• 1:10:08
  expensive opera. Why has she gone with her
• 1:10:11
  bleeper? Can't the sick look after
• 1:10:13
  themselves, for one? Night.
• 1:10:17
  I love the fact that you're the only person that could possibly
• 1:10:19
  make that complaint out of all. My contributors.
• 1:10:25
  Oh, Michael is right though, the these scenes I, I just.
• 1:10:29
  Think so? Lovely, aren't?
• 1:10:30
  They from this point on, their scenes together are magic.
• 1:10:38
  How? How did Brian remove this?
• 1:10:41
  Maybe he had a friend with a fan.
• 1:10:44
  Yeah, on on standby if she leaves the opera one more time.
• 1:10:49
  Right. I want you to come over and get
• 1:10:51
  the sofa. Having moved sofas quite
• 1:10:53
  recently, it's it's something you have to plan for.
• 1:10:56
  Yeah, Isn't it moving? Oh, boy.
• 1:11:00
  Do you know what I know? You say that.
• 1:11:02
  Here's a mistake. I do think he's just.
• 1:11:04
  He looks beautiful. Well, it's nice that he matches
• 1:11:07
  her. I think sort of young Joe was
• 1:11:10
  very confused watching this because he'd never had these
• 1:11:12
  feelings for Doctor Who before. Nowadays we've had many a hot
• 1:11:18
  Doctor Who. But yeah, back then.
• 1:11:21
  And you can see why in all of those mediums.
• 1:11:24
  I mentioned earlier on audio in the books, in the comics, that
• 1:11:28
  romantic angle stadium, right? I mean, he just, he is a
• 1:11:31
  romantic. He's a He's an overused toner
• 1:11:34
  but ironic figure. Did you, did you spot there that
• 1:11:38
  he he said his voice said 13 lives, but his lips said 12?
• 1:11:42
  Yeah, it was very dubbed, wasn't it?
• 1:11:46
  Yeah. Only children believe that crap.
• 1:11:49
  I am a doctor. It was a childish dream that
• 1:11:53
  made you a doctor. How does he know that?
• 1:11:56
  I don't know, but it's something that all of those mediums I just
• 1:12:00
  mentioned started off doing a little bit and then it very soon
• 1:12:04
  fell away. All of that stuff.
• 1:12:05
  He's all that sort of precondition he seems to have,
• 1:12:08
  yeah. I think I found it.
• 1:12:11
  I found it contrived then and I've not changed my view on that
• 1:12:14
  particular aspect I think. Are we?
• 1:12:18
  Are we random? Happenstance of bumping into
• 1:12:21
  several people whose future he knows about.
• 1:12:23
  Are we losing something, James in that scene by not having the
• 1:12:26
  harp come in? And I'll see in the flashback to
• 1:12:30
  Grace's childhood where she couldn't save she couldn't save
• 1:12:35
  her mummy. Do you know what I'm not sure we
• 1:12:39
  are? No, this I I maintain Chang Lee
• 1:12:43
  going into the TARDIS should be the first time we're going to
• 1:12:45
  the TARDIS of. Course it should.
• 1:12:48
  I mean, it could have opened, right, really atmospherically
• 1:12:51
  with the camera sort of roving the back alleys.
• 1:12:55
  And we just, we come across the rest of McCoy.
• 1:12:58
  There's our mystery. Who is this man dead in an
• 1:13:00
  alley? McCoy It could have just It
• 1:13:02
  could have been Gordon Tipple, John Novak.
• 1:13:07
  Well, yeah, because we're picking up the movie from that
• 1:13:08
  point. We've got the regeneration,
• 1:13:10
  everything like the regeneration.
• 1:13:12
  I agree with you. It should not be there.
• 1:13:14
  It should have started with Paul McGann.
• 1:13:15
  They did it in 2005 with Christopher Eccleston, and it
• 1:13:18
  worked brilliantly. That's a beautiful shot of the
• 1:13:20
  TARDIS console room. And this set is gorgeous.
• 1:13:23
  And look at that. I mean, what an entrance?
• 1:13:27
  What from Eric Roberts? Yeah.
• 1:13:29
  Eric Roberts has been making entrances his whole life.
• 1:13:32
  You can tell. Has he ever made run as good as
• 1:13:35
  that though? No.
• 1:13:36
  Yes, later on in this when he comes down the stairs.
• 1:13:41
  Yeah, OK. It's a series of of entrances.
• 1:13:43
  Is that a crucifix behind? I'm.
• 1:13:47
  Just like who is that figure? There was that figure hanging on
• 1:13:51
  the wall. It looks like it's looked.
• 1:13:53
  I mean, are we taking the Jesus references a bit far?
• 1:13:56
  What are all those? Sort of that plastic.
• 1:13:58
  Wall, did you see that? Does Harrison, does Harrison
• 1:14:04
  Chase attach himself to the TARDIS in the 70s?
• 1:14:06
  And he's been flying with him ever since.
• 1:14:08
  Oh, those are creepy contacts he's got on though, isn't it?
• 1:14:11
  Or is it a special effect? No, it's contacts.
• 1:14:17
  That wasn't that what they were going to do with the McCoy
• 1:14:19
  console possibly going forward was it was going to be something
• 1:14:23
  coming down from the ceiling. They were.
• 1:14:24
  They were looking at hanging it, Yeah.
• 1:14:26
  Yeah, it's a good idea. Yeah.
• 1:14:28
  I'm not sure about the the scanner screen which is the
• 1:14:31
  entire ceiling, but that's just they were showing off just.
• 1:14:34
  Showing off, just showing off. No, the McCoy was going to be
• 1:14:37
  was going to be suspended from the ceiling as well.
• 1:14:40
  They were actually not going to attach to the floor which.
• 1:14:43
  Was that for the next season? That I mean, it's been moved.
• 1:14:47
  That was Mike Tucker's idea. I think then they they would
• 1:14:49
  have looked at the budget and probably it would have looked
• 1:14:52
  crap but. Can I?
• 1:14:54
  I want to be absolutely upfront about Eric Roberts.
• 1:14:58
  I think he knows exactly what he's doing in this, right?
• 1:15:01
  He's like, I'm going to have the most fun of.
• 1:15:04
  Anyone in this? Stupid film and he plays the
• 1:15:08
  camp to 100. I think he's wonderful.
• 1:15:13
  I, I think it's, I think it's almost, it's fair to say that
• 1:15:16
  this it, it could have been a little bit more Eric Roberts in
• 1:15:19
  ex. Oh, really?
• 1:15:21
  Well, I think so. Not nowadays, though, is Shaw's
• 1:15:24
  been wired shut by all that cocaine.
• 1:15:26
  He can barely get his. No, but but, but I but I feel
• 1:15:28
  that he, you're right. He gets the level and and it's
• 1:15:31
  and it's he, he, he measures out the camp in in so far as it gets
• 1:15:36
  camper and camper. I mean, there's nothing very
• 1:15:38
  camp about peeling off your fingernail, is there?
• 1:15:41
  No, but the bit where he's like, I never like this planet.
• 1:15:44
  Doctor, very careful. Oh, can we talk about the
• 1:15:49
  romance now? Come on now.
• 1:15:50
  Talk about the romance sort of then and now.
• 1:15:54
  And have you come to terms with it all?
• 1:15:56
  Of course. And it's and it's a very chaste
• 1:15:58
  kiss, really. I suppose at the time it was
• 1:16:04
  what? Why is this in Doctor Who?
• 1:16:07
  Because that's not what we don't watch Doctor Who for a romantic
• 1:16:10
  relationship. That's, that's, that's not
• 1:16:14
  what's appealing about the character.
• 1:16:16
  And if you think about the Doctor as he had always been, I
• 1:16:18
  mean, there was only one Doctor that you would remotely consider
• 1:16:22
  kissing, and that was Peter Davison, who's actually a grumpy
• 1:16:24
  sword and you wouldn't kiss him. And Can you imagine if if if
• 1:16:28
  Tegan and the Doctor shared a kiss?
• 1:16:30
  You think this kiss is chased kissing Peter Davidson's doctor?
• 1:16:34
  I mean, did you see it in Terminus?
• 1:16:36
  It was a whisper of a kiss. I would have had more respect
• 1:16:43
  for Sarah Sutton if she'd have just grabbed hold of Peter
• 1:16:45
  Davidson and stuck her. I'm sorry, I'm just distracted
• 1:16:48
  by pop plants. Yeah, well, there's windows.
• 1:16:52
  Look, there's fucking windows. I pulled that in from some set.
• 1:16:55
  I don't know. Oh I like this with them talking
• 1:16:59
  through the round doors. Well, they're not really round
• 1:17:02
  doors, are they? Where?
• 1:17:04
  Where are the real? Where are the real roundels?
• 1:17:07
  Tell me that. Well, I know it's trouble.
• 1:17:09
  Easy designs come on a bit in 20 years, OK?
• 1:17:15
  It's got round things in it I guess.
• 1:17:17
  Actually, you're right it I do think in the book there was more
• 1:17:21
  a sense that Shangli was sort of hypnotized.
• 1:17:23
  But in this, he's clearly got agency, hasn't he?
• 1:17:26
  Yeah. He's been seduced by money and
• 1:17:29
  power. But there is also the, I mean,
• 1:17:31
  it's, again, it's very over the top, but there's the whole
• 1:17:34
  here's some gold, here's some power.
• 1:17:37
  And also I'll kill you if you don't help.
• 1:17:39
  Yeah, you get to live. I mean, I, I again, the fact
• 1:17:45
  that he looks like the Terminator.
• 1:17:48
  Well, it's more it's, it's actually a bit, it's a bit of a
• 1:17:51
  mix of both Arnie and Robert Patrick from Terminator 2, isn't
• 1:17:56
  it? But we're briefly now in Robin
• 1:17:58
  Hood, Prince of Thieves. Everything I do, I do it for.
• 1:18:05
  You could add that to this scene.
• 1:18:08
  Oh. I remember being annoyed by
• 1:18:10
  this. The cloister room.
• 1:18:12
  Cloister Room. The Eye of Harmony in the
• 1:18:14
  TARDIS. Don't worry, don't worry.
• 1:18:17
  In the Tardis. They're living shrews, remember?
• 1:18:21
  We heard about them in Longbarrow.
• 1:18:25
  Sort of Time Lord bats, you know?
• 1:18:28
  I don't think anyone working on this had read Lung Barrow
• 1:18:33
  really. What What Terrace Dick says on
• 1:18:36
  Page 1 of the 8 Doctors is, of course it wasn't the actual Eye
• 1:18:41
  of Harmony. No, that was on Gallifrey.
• 1:18:43
  It was just a sort of a metaphorical moment of in the
• 1:18:49
  TARDIS that connects the TARDIS to the power source on
• 1:18:52
  Gallifrey. He's so angry.
• 1:18:54
  With all the changes. That they've made, bless him.
• 1:19:00
  Here's now we're doing King Arthur.
• 1:19:02
  Yeah. Yeah, we're, we're, we're
• 1:19:04
  definitely in some kind of this is, this is the Indiana Jones
• 1:19:08
  thing coming in, isn't it? You pulled the stare from the
• 1:19:10
  stone. I think that in, in fairness to
• 1:19:16
  my kind of youthful objection to the Doctor having a romance at
• 1:19:21
  this point, the Masters doing all the interesting stuff and
• 1:19:24
  all the plot stuff, and the Doctors having a romantic walk
• 1:19:27
  in the park, I think we we might expect the Doctor to have a bit
• 1:19:30
  more agency and to be doing something a bit more interesting
• 1:19:33
  at this stage. Don't worry, the Masters going
• 1:19:36
  to get involved in the romance now and make poor Doctor
• 1:19:40
  Holloway think the Doctor's completely insane, turn up at
• 1:19:43
  the doorstep and then all Hell's going to break loose.
• 1:19:47
  Don't worry 16 year old James, there's excitement coming, OK?
• 1:19:51
  I promise you at least. Loads of people covered in gunk
• 1:19:55
  and the end of the world. How's that?
• 1:19:57
  We're doing Ghostbusters as well, are we?
• 1:19:59
  Oh, and there's a bit of that in here as well.
• 1:20:01
  A bit of slightly, yes. Oh, and I and I might throw in a
• 1:20:04
  a motorbike chase for you as well if you're lucky.
• 1:20:07
  He, he's, he sort of, it looks like he spits a bit after the
• 1:20:11
  kiss. And he does throw against a wall
• 1:20:14
  and certain areas that's called. Definitely no tongues.
• 1:20:19
  Though. Well, no, no.
• 1:20:22
  What do you think about the bit where Grace looks straight at
• 1:20:24
  the camera like a Looney Tunes? Character always loved that.
• 1:20:29
  Now this would be a great. I'm glad you do, because I'm
• 1:20:31
  just going to hold up my mouse mat right now.
• 1:20:34
  And it's Grace staring at the camera like a Looney Tunes
• 1:20:37
  character. You cannot understand the love
• 1:20:40
  for the TV movie in this house, all right?
• 1:20:43
  They missed a great opportunity there to do a montage of all the
• 1:20:46
  past doctors. Oh, I know.
• 1:20:49
  This thing could have been at least 10 minutes long, couldn't
• 1:20:51
  it? That's how long the book passage
• 1:20:53
  felt. Oh, hang on.
• 1:20:54
  What's this? What is this blasphemy?
• 1:20:57
  The Doctor's half human A. Tetris half human.
• 1:21:01
  Like Spark, What are you doing? Why does he say no wonder?
• 1:21:07
  Does that mean why that's why he dalliances with human beings all
• 1:21:10
  the time? I.
• 1:21:11
  Don't know. I don't know why does he have to
• 1:21:14
  be half human? I don't know.
• 1:21:16
  Why would you set up right a character for a whole new
• 1:21:20
  audience and throwing like massive twists about them that
• 1:21:25
  diverts from what we know about those characters before they
• 1:21:29
  even got to know them? It would be like in episode 2 of
• 1:21:32
  a program having a young man saying I've got a granddaughter
• 1:21:35
  over here in 1963. It would be like in a second
• 1:21:41
  episode of a program, someone going why planet Gallifrey has
• 1:21:44
  been completely destroyed. You know, now are we are they
• 1:21:52
  trying to do the sort of, you know, what are they called?
• 1:21:57
  They're sort of romantic comedies with these two, you
• 1:22:00
  know, sort of back and forth and the tension and.
• 1:22:02
  It feels a little bit, it feels a little bit like that, doesn't
• 1:22:07
  it? How Davis entirely pulled off.
• 1:22:11
  I'm not sure how he's playing it.
• 1:22:13
  No, I don't think. I don't.
• 1:22:14
  Think no, I don't think he knows how to play any of this stuff
• 1:22:17
  where he's just regurgitating continuity.
• 1:22:21
  You give him a funny line, you give him a heartfelt line, and
• 1:22:24
  he can do it. You tell him to start talking
• 1:22:27
  about I have 13 lives, you know. You see them shaking and their
• 1:22:31
  breath in the air. They must have been absolutely
• 1:22:34
  freezing. Wow, Vancouver.
• 1:22:36
  That looks a bit like Home alone, all these fairy lights.
• 1:22:40
  John Demney could have done a bit of each, couldn't he?
• 1:22:47
  Yeah, yeah. What would the Terminator bit
• 1:22:49
  be? Oh, there's an.
• 1:22:57
  Alternate soundtrack to be to be made.
• 1:22:59
  That's right. And you're hearing it here.
• 1:23:01
  So what's she got? Like a condo?
• 1:23:04
  I can't really quite tell. Like everyone in an any American
• 1:23:08
  television program, she lives in a very expensive house.
• 1:23:12
  I like this. I love all of the talking to the
• 1:23:14
  letterbox. I love the eyes and then the
• 1:23:16
  mouth and then. Well, James, sit down, we can
• 1:23:19
  have a cup of tea and talk about it reasonably.
• 1:23:23
  What? Time Lord to Earthlane?
• 1:23:24
  That's right, I'm a Time Lord. I love it.
• 1:23:29
  I love all this stuff. This is the stuff going forward.
• 1:23:32
  Look at his. Look at his poor damp wig.
• 1:23:36
  Yeah, bless him. I don't understand quite why.
• 1:23:39
  He sort of walks through the glass in a minute.
• 1:23:42
  Now explain this right. So in in this scene he can push
• 1:23:46
  his hand through wobbly glass. Well, I just imagine there's a
• 1:23:50
  lot of people that have leant on Windows and had a bit of
• 1:23:53
  trouble. But if it does that to glass,
• 1:23:56
  what else? What else is affected?
• 1:23:58
  Well, James, in Hawaii it has even started snowing.
• 1:24:01
  Isn't glass quite an important component of various medical
• 1:24:04
  things? It's the hospital now after
• 1:24:07
  those people didn't get their meds, of various people dying
• 1:24:10
  because thermometers have started dissolving inside them
• 1:24:13
  and that. Glass is also a particular
• 1:24:15
  component of aeroplanes. Well.
• 1:24:21
  Oh bless. I think he goes a bit over the
• 1:24:24
  top with the kind of crash zooms into clocks.
• 1:24:29
  Yes, although I think the word we had in the book club episode
• 1:24:33
  was consistent. He's consistent because he's
• 1:24:37
  been zooming in on clocks ever since the start of this.
• 1:24:43
  So why is he losing weight? Is everyone losing weight?
• 1:24:47
  Or has he lost weight since he was Sylvester McCoy because he
• 1:24:50
  wasn't that big? No, I I'd have thought he's
• 1:24:53
  probably put on some some. Just a tiny bit, yeah.
• 1:24:57
  Although that was an issue in many of the books.
• 1:24:58
  You know, people seem to think Paul McGann was really tall, and
• 1:25:02
  he's not. He's very short.
• 1:25:04
  He's not grown very much. Yeah, now far be it from me to
• 1:25:09
  accuse Doctor Who Magazine of pulling out any old person from
• 1:25:14
  Doctor Who and interviewing them just to have some coverage in
• 1:25:17
  their magazine. But in their recent 8th Doctor
• 1:25:20
  special, they have a two page spread with the news anchor.
• 1:25:25
  OK, 2 pages. Two whole pages, yeah.
• 1:25:28
  Did she remember doing the job? To be honest with you, I didn't
• 1:25:32
  read it. I just went oh boy.
• 1:25:35
  OK, a new low. You're gonna hear the stuck in
• 1:25:39
  clock getting started naturally. OK, now he is a coincidence.
• 1:25:45
  What does the doctor need right now?
• 1:25:48
  Well, he needs a beryllium chip. But there's one there's,
• 1:25:54
  there's, there's one in that, in that atomic clock.
• 1:25:56
  What in San Francisco where he is?
• 1:26:00
  On that news report that he just turned on.
• 1:26:02
  Oh my God, what an amazing coincidence.
• 1:26:07
  OK, another classy entrance for the master there.
• 1:26:11
  Oh, and you can hear the music. Yeah, great.
• 1:26:18
  Oh I fucking this scene in the ambulance, all the stuff.
• 1:26:23
  Oh, this is so it's hitting its stride now.
• 1:26:26
  So what we're oh, I hate to say it, we're nearly 15 minutes in.
• 1:26:32
  I know. But we're finally getting This
• 1:26:36
  is the Doctor Who that we've been waiting?
• 1:26:37
  For it's the glimpse of what this is the could have been.
• 1:26:41
  Yeah. Can't you give up a sedative?
• 1:26:45
  That's right. He's a Time Lord.
• 1:26:48
  I just love all this stuff. I love that she calls it the Eye
• 1:26:51
  of Destruction. Doesn't she say at one point the
• 1:26:55
  Master, is he like the devil or something?
• 1:26:59
  And fraud would have taken me seriously.
• 1:27:02
  He'd have hung up his pipe if he met you this.
• 1:27:05
  Stuff is. Great.
• 1:27:07
  Did you kiss Madam Kerry too? She.
• 1:27:09
  Kissed as good as me. It's great.
• 1:27:15
  Now we get a glimpse for it. Now that's a special effect, not
• 1:27:18
  a contact lens. Was it a contact?
• 1:27:20
  Maybe it was an effect earlier. Actually, if anyone's going to
• 1:27:23
  get pissy about having to put in contact lenses, it's it's it's
• 1:27:26
  probably Eric, isn't it? Yeah, although Daphne has very
• 1:27:29
  black sort of tar like ones later, doesn't she?
• 1:27:32
  They're they're it's. Probably an absolute pro when it
• 1:27:34
  comes to contact lenses, yeah. Oh my God.
• 1:27:37
  So that's the Morphin snake, is it sort of dribbling all over
• 1:27:41
  the grace there? I don't know, but so that's what
• 1:27:46
  happened to her arm there. Do you know, I think there
• 1:27:49
  should have been a better line about what's happening here
• 1:27:53
  because I saw the chickens and I'm like, as a kid I was like,
• 1:27:57
  what is happening? What's happening on this?
• 1:28:00
  Road, it's, it's extraordinary, isn't it?
• 1:28:03
  Why? Why are they transporting
• 1:28:07
  chickens on the back of a lorry? But look, I mean, this is
• 1:28:10
  expensive. They've they've.
• 1:28:12
  Literally it's a big drive. No stuff that I know.
• 1:28:15
  There's like 50 cars there. It's like the the opening of La
• 1:28:19
  La Land, for God's sakes. Oh, but well, and, and what a
• 1:28:24
  what a missed opportunity for a dance sequence.
• 1:28:26
  Right. Oh, bum bum, bum, bum bum, bum,
• 1:28:28
  bum, bum, bum bum. Oh my God, this theme is right
• 1:28:30
  in itself. OK, we like this and we like him
• 1:28:34
  threatening to shoot himself. Absolutely.
• 1:28:37
  And we love Grace going give him the keys.
• 1:28:43
  And this is where you're really seeing the companion, can't you?
• 1:28:45
  Right. And also, excuse me, sorry,
• 1:28:47
  we're just going to have a conversation here.
• 1:28:50
  Oh thank God they cut out the audience all saying give them
• 1:28:53
  the key so. It's from a different thing,
• 1:28:56
  isn't it? It's.
• 1:28:58
  Oh, I just love. Give them, give me the gun,
• 1:29:00
  right? And then the policeman sort of
• 1:29:02
  visibly relaxes, doesn't he? And then she shoots the
• 1:29:07
  motorbike. Now I don't know a lot about
• 1:29:10
  guns. Almost.
• 1:29:11
  Even does she? I don't think.
• 1:29:12
  That's, that's not, that's not good, is it?
• 1:29:17
  She's you shouldn't drive that thing now that she shot it.
• 1:29:21
  And Daph is holding that Garner as if she has never held a gun
• 1:29:24
  before. It's like a toy war.
• 1:29:26
  Pistol in. Her hand.
• 1:29:28
  Oh, this was that line. He cut out the book.
• 1:29:30
  It's an ambulance. And sorry, you're going to have
• 1:29:36
  to put up with this now. Oh, that music here is so great.
• 1:29:42
  Absolutely brilliant and we get a we cut together from about
• 1:29:47
  three shots we get, we get a really exciting chase sequence.
• 1:29:52
  This is better than Bessie being chased by the black obelisk in
• 1:29:57
  the Five Doctors. That is high prize coming from
• 1:30:00
  you or is it as good as? An equal to stealing the
• 1:30:09
  Brigadiers. Car What about Liz Shaw and her
• 1:30:11
  hat in the Ambassadors of Death being chased down the road?
• 1:30:15
  Oh, that's better. But I'll tell you what's really
• 1:30:18
  interesting watching this with no sound is you realise how
• 1:30:22
  empty the streets are and actually how little material
• 1:30:25
  they they have been able to film of this very expensive sequence.
• 1:30:29
  You don't think that when you've got the music behind it.
• 1:30:31
  No, not at all, not at all. I used to listen to the
• 1:30:34
  soundtrack all the bloody time. I was obsessed with it.
• 1:30:38
  There was a lovely long shot there a second ago of all the
• 1:30:41
  cars, with all of the skyscrapers and that in the
• 1:30:44
  background. That's a.
• 1:30:45
  Great. Shot.
• 1:30:46
  I mean, there is some money on the screen here.
• 1:30:48
  It's the money on the team. I mean, I'm, I'm looking at it
• 1:30:51
  now, obviously objectively and without, you know, I can see all
• 1:30:54
  the shots where they've got the what's the car version of
• 1:30:57
  extras. Are they still called extras?
• 1:31:00
  But they've they've, they've had, they've had the money for
• 1:31:02
  some, some cars for maybe a couple of hours.
• 1:31:05
  And then there's the other shots they've had to pick up, which is
• 1:31:07
  like completely deserted streets.
• 1:31:10
  But you don't notice that one where you know in with all the
• 1:31:12
  noise, the sound and the and the music.
• 1:31:15
  You know how much they sort of feel the party at the end with
• 1:31:17
  all of those people. It proved conclusive that people
• 1:31:21
  are more expensive than cars, right?
• 1:31:23
  Yeah. Oh, do you know what?
• 1:31:26
  I actually had forgotten that the chase goes on for this long.
• 1:31:29
  Yeah, look, they're now they're on a bloody railroad side.
• 1:31:34
  What is it? She goes.
• 1:31:35
  I finally met the right guy. And he's from a different
• 1:31:38
  planet. That was in the trailer,
• 1:31:40
  wouldn't it? Yeah.
• 1:31:41
  Young James must have been appalled by that line.
• 1:31:43
  Absolutely appalled. I only have one life.
• 1:31:49
  Can you remember that? And I love all this stuff in the
• 1:31:53
  party where they're infiltrating.
• 1:31:55
  I'm like, yes, this is what I want.
• 1:31:58
  This feels to me like absolute Doctor Who.
• 1:32:03
  The Masters there as well, you know, getting up to his evil
• 1:32:05
  shenanigans, a chase. I mean, what feels more like
• 1:32:09
  Doctor Who than running around somewhere?
• 1:32:11
  I think, I think, I think you've hit the, the, the nail on the
• 1:32:16
  head when you've identified what's, what's great about this,
• 1:32:18
  but also the kind of the nub of the problem, particularly at the
• 1:32:20
  time when this was all we were getting.
• 1:32:23
  It takes 50 minutes to get to this point.
• 1:32:25
  And I'm going to, I'm going to say something that's going to
• 1:32:28
  make you maybe a bit sad. But I, I don't love that
• 1:32:31
  sequence where he's hanging from the ceiling.
• 1:32:34
  I I don't think it's the most thrilling climax.
• 1:32:38
  Well, at the end of this, oh, don't you worry, I'll be excited
• 1:32:42
  for the both of us. I mean, I don't have a fucking
• 1:32:45
  clue what's going on. And I think taking the doctor
• 1:32:47
  out of the climax and just sticking him up in the air like
• 1:32:50
  that, I mean, Chris Chibnall took note and did it for the
• 1:32:53
  Timeless Children. Yeah, of course it was.
• 1:32:56
  So that's that's my issue is that what I want is a climax
• 1:33:00
  that's going to use this amazing duo that we've got and this new
• 1:33:03
  Doctor. And instead he's he's left
• 1:33:05
  hanging there kind of shouting rather helplessly.
• 1:33:08
  And yeah, it, it, it, but we've got, we've got one opportunity
• 1:33:13
  to look at them on screen and, and, and we don't really get it
• 1:33:16
  in the final, final act. Going to like an institute feels
• 1:33:20
  very pertly to me. Being clandestine and pretending
• 1:33:25
  to be other people, that feels very trout and to me sort of in
• 1:33:29
  vaguely in your way into somewhere.
• 1:33:31
  There is also, I think the shadow of Tim Burton.
• 1:33:35
  It's, it's the slightly over the top society thing that we get in
• 1:33:40
  the Batman films. And actually we get kind of the
• 1:33:44
  fancy dress party from Batman Returns, don't we?
• 1:33:46
  Oh. I love Professor Wag Grace says
• 1:33:50
  that you have a big. Secret.
• 1:33:52
  What is it? Oh, and he's a.
• 1:33:55
  Really fun character, isn't he? Look at the bit now where she
• 1:33:59
  goes. I think you must be.
• 1:34:01
  And then she's offers him the wine and he realises he's got
• 1:34:05
  the part and she just goes, oh, oh, you're like, yes, this is
• 1:34:10
  it, this is it, we're here. But you're right.
• 1:34:12
  Why is he blabbing his mouth while being half half human to
• 1:34:15
  everyone? Well.
• 1:34:16
  It's a distraction technique. He's not mentioned it ever
• 1:34:21
  before and suddenly we're getting it twice.
• 1:34:25
  Oh, and she's she's like, thank God he's half human because
• 1:34:29
  we've been up against a tree, you know?
• 1:34:32
  Oh, this line about small things.
• 1:34:35
  Yeah, they say that on my planet, too.
• 1:34:37
  Excuse me, I didn't hear that in The Invasion of Time.
• 1:34:41
  No, you didn't. No, although in fact they're not
• 1:34:45
  small. Did you see how much handrip was
• 1:34:47
  packing inside that in those trousers?
• 1:34:50
  I mean, it was very disturbing. Well, yes, no.
• 1:34:55
  What? Oh, Christopher Trashaw man.
• 1:34:59
  He's got nothing to be embarrassed about.
• 1:35:03
  See. Look, now look.
• 1:35:03
  We're dashing around. We've stolen what we need.
• 1:35:05
  And. We've got another character who
• 1:35:07
  I like. Oh, he's a mad Doctor Who fan,
• 1:35:09
  isn't he? He's Toby Haydock's Time Travels
• 1:35:12
  and dressed it up as a prime odd for his Inferno interludes.
• 1:35:16
  I think this is what I think. He's really fun.
• 1:35:18
  And again, it's a, it's a, it's 30 seconds.
• 1:35:20
  We don't need to know his back story, Gary Russell, but it's a
• 1:35:24
  fun little scene. Oh, Jelly babies.
• 1:35:28
  Of course, of course. Couldn't it have been Dolly
• 1:35:32
  mixtures? They're just as eccentric,
• 1:35:34
  aren't they? See how he smelt the the Jelly
• 1:35:36
  baby before he ate it? Yeah.
• 1:35:38
  Who else ate the Jelly baby just like that?
• 1:35:40
  Tom Baker. Andrid in the event of.
• 1:35:44
  Time, and actually I think the guard in the pirate planet too.
• 1:35:51
  So there you go, that is who plays Gareth.
• 1:35:56
  I know. Jeremy Raddick.
• 1:35:58
  He's a friend of Nathan's, he's been on flight for entirety a
• 1:36:01
  couple of times. He's a really lovely guy.
• 1:36:02
  I like to think that Jeremy Raddick knew exactly what he was
• 1:36:05
  doing when he's when he sniffed the Jelly baby like that.
• 1:36:07
  It's like this is a, This is something for the fans of
• 1:36:10
  Android. Don't try and talk to me all
• 1:36:12
  over this scene because you know what I'm going to say.
• 1:36:14
  I went to a Saunder once, right? And there was five of us in a
• 1:36:18
  room and those men covered in all that gunk.
• 1:36:22
  Well, I'm going to leave it to your imagination.
• 1:36:24
  Are we so we we think that the the master vomited all over
• 1:36:28
  those those men? Is that what happened?
• 1:36:30
  Well, I can't imagine it just happened.
• 1:36:35
  Why did it freeze them? I don't know, but I do love them
• 1:36:39
  Coming down on the fire hose now, straight onto the car.
• 1:36:44
  Do you know what that reminds me of?
• 1:36:45
  The Lazarus experiment of F1 sort of running around in a
• 1:36:48
  panic. Yes, the Lazarus experiment is
• 1:36:51
  like this. Actually, and do you know what,
• 1:36:53
  James? Watch, you know, in the climax,
• 1:36:55
  there'll be so much happening, so we'll sort of lose track.
• 1:36:58
  But the bits where you see the city and the lightning coming
• 1:37:00
  down and the cracks in the floor and all of that.
• 1:37:03
  Boomtown. Yeah, it's Boomtown.
• 1:37:06
  Russell was taking note. In both cases, I would I would
• 1:37:10
  argue that this is better. Oh, in all cases.
• 1:37:13
  From the new series. Yeah, good God, if RTD 2 gave me
• 1:37:18
  anything like this, I'd have been over the moon.
• 1:37:23
  You'd have to ask the question, wouldn't you?
• 1:37:24
  What happens to me? Yeah, but how?
• 1:37:26
  How would he know? Well, he sort of has this sort
• 1:37:29
  of intuitive nature. I've just, so I've just checked
• 1:37:34
  the time and I've realised how tragically briefed this this,
• 1:37:37
  this moment of what I wanted the whole thing to be like actually.
• 1:37:41
  Oh, because she's taken over in a second, isn't she?
• 1:37:44
  Yeah, we're about to come to the end of what?
• 1:37:45
  What? What?
• 1:37:46
  Absolutely. As I rewatched, this came to be
• 1:37:48
  the bit that I enjoyed the most, and I expect that's true.
• 1:37:52
  This visual gag of the man riding the police bike into
• 1:37:55
  that, I mean, they did it in day the doctor, didn't they?
• 1:37:57
  It's. Lovely.
• 1:37:58
  It doesn't make any sense. If you look at the interior
• 1:38:01
  design, there's steps. How does that motorbike go down
• 1:38:04
  those steps, right? And how does it not kind of
• 1:38:07
  crash into the pot plants which are liberally scattered around
• 1:38:11
  the Conservatory area? How does he know to turn around
• 1:38:13
  and how does he mess up with that?
• 1:38:15
  You're absolutely that Doctor Who fan that can't enjoy the
• 1:38:18
  quality of a story of a continuity point is wrong,
• 1:38:21
  aren't you? No, someone has to answer these.
• 1:38:28
  Answer these questions and maybe the novelisation will explain
• 1:38:31
  it. I'm going to sort of cover it
• 1:38:32
  with a line. It's really fun, OK.
• 1:38:36
  So we're coming up to one hour and 2 minutes.
• 1:38:39
  So that was that was 12 minutes that.
• 1:38:42
  Sequence not enough and because because of various issues no one
• 1:38:47
  can use Grace Holloway. Man, we could have had seasons
• 1:38:51
  of this from Big Finish. It's it's great when it lasts,
• 1:38:56
  but that's that is that's my favorite bit.
• 1:38:59
  Well, and I do love like microwave.
• 1:39:01
  I love the scene at the end when it's all over with and they're
• 1:39:04
  out in the rain. That's beautiful as well.
• 1:39:06
  The potential is there. I think it needs tweaking.
• 1:39:10
  It needs better scripts, it needs a better story.
• 1:39:13
  It needs comprehensible logic. Like I still don't understand
• 1:39:18
  how opening that iron ball sucks the planet inside of it it.
• 1:39:23
  It's it's a a strange conceit, isn't it?
• 1:39:28
  What? Also how just shutting it and
• 1:39:30
  then going back in time prevents that from happening?
• 1:39:35
  There's been quite a lot of Doctor Who over the year.
• 1:39:37
  I mean, over the it's entire history written by people who
• 1:39:40
  didn't really understand time travel.
• 1:39:43
  Terence Dix was one of them, of course.
• 1:39:46
  Yeah, Stephen Moffett as well. You know he makes up the rules
• 1:39:50
  as he goes along. Yeah, but Stephen Moffett sort
• 1:39:53
  of pretends to understand it and and makes it so convoluted that
• 1:39:57
  that you can't be bothered to kind of you.
• 1:39:59
  Can't possibly enjoy it. I don't know. 5 hour
• 1:40:02
  conversation once about the plot points of The Big Bang.
• 1:40:05
  Oh boy. Terrance 6 will throw in things
• 1:40:07
  like after I died, you were sent back to your home so you
• 1:40:10
  couldn't possibly Remember Me, which which creates a problem
• 1:40:13
  that other fans have had to unpick.
• 1:40:14
  Terrance Dix is just thinking, well, he died, we saw it on
• 1:40:17
  telly, so of course he would know that.
• 1:40:19
  He's the joy of Terence Dix, though, is is his blase attitude
• 1:40:23
  to all this stuff. Continuity is what I remember,
• 1:40:26
  all right, and not what I don't care about, Doctor.
• 1:40:29
  Oh I love this. All of this stuff where they're
• 1:40:32
  like a an old married couple screaming make each other
• 1:40:35
  through the console. I like that he has a toolbox.
• 1:40:39
  Yeah. Oh, but actually you can already
• 1:40:41
  see, look, you can already see that her face, she's, she's gone
• 1:40:45
  a bit grey, hasn't she? The Masters sort of taken her
• 1:40:47
  over already. As I recall, various tools in
• 1:40:52
  that in that toolkit are based on tools that were in the the
• 1:40:56
  the Davison era toolkit, the one we get in Earth Shock.
• 1:41:01
  No, really. I'm pretty sure like they must
• 1:41:03
  have had a copy of. Did you?
• 1:41:04
  Did you ever have the technical manual?
• 1:41:06
  No. Do I imagine, do you imagine I
• 1:41:10
  would have the technical manual? It had all it had like technical
• 1:41:14
  different, different designs of Dalek, but it had tools from the
• 1:41:17
  Doctor's toolbox. Did you learn anything?
• 1:41:22
  What about the doctor's tools? Yes.
• 1:41:26
  Are they an accurate representation in the TV movie?
• 1:41:30
  I suspect given the they were really fussy about kind of
• 1:41:35
  getting things like the TARDIS dimensions right and and getting
• 1:41:39
  the Sonic screwdriver right. I mean, I think like the Sonic
• 1:41:41
  screwdriver is sort of impressively close to the
• 1:41:43
  original prop, given that they didn't have an original prop to
• 1:41:45
  base it on. What those shots all about?
• 1:41:49
  There it was that we were in some dreadful Hammer movie, that
• 1:41:53
  sort of harsh light on Grace and her big black eyes staring
• 1:41:57
  straight at the camera. That's like in the hospital
• 1:41:59
  that's that's mid 90s way of showing someone is looking at
• 1:42:04
  someone. Oh, OK.
• 1:42:05
  Oh, here we go. Expose the shots.
• 1:42:09
  Oh, Eric, I always dress for the engagement.
• 1:42:16
  I mean that. I think that's a good redesign
• 1:42:19
  of those stupid Time Lord collars.
• 1:42:21
  It remains ostentatious, but looks like something someone
• 1:42:25
  might actually wear. So it's a good costume, isn't
• 1:42:28
  it? Actually, the framing there,
• 1:42:33
  with him up against that window, it just does look like a church,
• 1:42:38
  doesn't it? It what yes, it does look like a
• 1:42:41
  church and and you have to kind of ask from a I'm sorry, I'm
• 1:42:47
  going to be that fan again. Where's the light coming from?
• 1:42:51
  Oh yes, that's a good point. The roundels were lit up in the
• 1:42:59
  console room in the classic series.
• 1:43:00
  Where was the light coming from there?
• 1:43:03
  See, in in classic Doctor Who, if he was strapped to a thing
• 1:43:06
  like that, he'd get his companion to kind of kick him
• 1:43:09
  down a hill and there'd be another chase sequence.
• 1:43:11
  That's right, end up down a hole.
• 1:43:14
  We're into a fancy dress. Party Oh I love the woman with
• 1:43:17
  the moon face. Oh my words.
• 1:43:20
  That is, that is Batman returns on a on a miniscule budget,
• 1:43:24
  though. You remember all those kind of
• 1:43:26
  half masks that they had in the in the party in in Batman
• 1:43:30
  Returns? It's it's that, but done done
• 1:43:32
  for tuppence. The fella blows the thing in the
• 1:43:35
  Pete's face and it takes him about two seconds for him to
• 1:43:38
  jump and throw his sausage row in the air.
• 1:43:40
  Do you know it? Yes.
• 1:43:44
  Yeah. Analogy.
• 1:43:46
  Oh, I. Hope not.
• 1:43:49
  Oh, it's got a bit Clockwork Orange actually, hasn't it?
• 1:43:52
  In 700 years, no one's managed to open the eye.
• 1:43:55
  Why? It didn't seem particularly
• 1:43:56
  difficult. I think that Eric Roberts gets a
• 1:44:01
  better deal than Paul Mcgahn. I think you're right.
• 1:44:05
  In the way that he is. So does Daphne.
• 1:44:08
  Yeah. She gets more screen time at
• 1:44:10
  least. More screen time, more of a
• 1:44:12
  chance to establish a character. Oh this is a great I really like
• 1:44:16
  this as a visual game. What do you mean it don't work?
• 1:44:18
  And then the shiny scientist just goes.
• 1:44:23
  I love that this is this is the very expensive New Year's Eve
• 1:44:26
  party, and it looks ever so slightly more expensive than the
• 1:44:29
  very cheap hospital party, but only slightly.
• 1:44:32
  Well, they've got more tables, you know.
• 1:44:34
  They've got more tables. What should have been it, right?
• 1:44:37
  Oh no, it's gone past already. Do you ever notice the man
• 1:44:40
  during the hoovering when the Doctor and Grace come down the
• 1:44:42
  hose pipe? Oh yes, yes, he's.
• 1:44:45
  Just in the back of the shot during the.
• 1:44:47
  Hoovering. Absolutely love it.
• 1:44:50
  That kind, that kind of detail. Now listen to this psychological
• 1:44:54
  program. I have wasted all my lives
• 1:44:57
  because of you, Doctor. Now he's getting into it now.
• 1:45:02
  Gosh, so this was made in 96. When did things go widescreen?
• 1:45:05
  Because that's the other thing that that dates this.
• 1:45:07
  Now. It's all kind of the aspect
• 1:45:11
  ratio is all, isn't it? I mean, I think this 4K version
• 1:45:16
  is going to be pretty sexy. Oh yeah, definitely.
• 1:45:19
  But it's still going to look like something made in the 90s.
• 1:45:24
  Are you going to the BFI to watch it?
• 1:45:27
  No, I'm not even a member of the BFI anymore.
• 1:45:30
  No, neither am I. You can never.
• 1:45:32
  I'll tell you why. I'll tell you why I'm not a
• 1:45:33
  member of the BFI. You tell me because.
• 1:45:35
  People at the BFI in the in the audience at the BFI behave very
• 1:45:39
  much like Grace Holloway in the opera.
• 1:45:41
  Oh, they talk. People talk more than more than
• 1:45:44
  that. It's people bringing their own
• 1:45:46
  noisy snacks and I used to go to the BFI because it was the
• 1:45:49
  cinema where they didn't sell popcorn and it's endemic now.
• 1:45:54
  The people going I I sat through, sorry, this is well off
• 1:45:58
  topic, but it was, oh, it's a BFI film.
• 1:46:04
  What was the what was the Mark Jenkin film after Bait You're?
• 1:46:09
  Asking. Me get Mark.
• 1:46:13
  So a really arty quiet film. It starts up and this film I'm
• 1:46:19
  watching at the BFIA film with made with money from the BFI in
• 1:46:24
  one of their smaller screening rooms.
• 1:46:25
  Full of kind of arty, not much dialogue, lots of lots of
• 1:46:30
  soundscapes and the the guy next to me opens up a packet of
• 1:46:34
  Doritos. Doritos, you say?
• 1:46:39
  The loudest of all crisps. The loudest of all crisps.
• 1:46:43
  I phoned his partner and his sofa was gone by the time he got
• 1:46:46
  home. Do you know what justified
• 1:46:49
  justified. What the fuck is happening here?
• 1:46:52
  What what is happening and why is?
• 1:46:55
  Well, I mean, OK, so I can there's, there's almost like a
• 1:46:59
  character logic here. The Master has been on his last
• 1:47:02
  life for some time now, which is why we were talking about extra
• 1:47:05
  regenerations in the Five Doctors, right?
• 1:47:07
  Which is why he was so desperate in survival and stuff like that.
• 1:47:09
  Wait, go with it. And so the Doctor still has a
• 1:47:13
  number of lives left, and so the Master's trying to sort of suck
• 1:47:18
  in all of his regenerations. Now I understand that, but why
• 1:47:23
  does the doctor have to wear that metal breastplate?
• 1:47:26
  Well, because there are fans of S&M.
• 1:47:29
  You know, you've seen creatures from the pier, haven't you?
• 1:47:33
  Sometimes. And Dragons, I don't know
• 1:47:35
  what's. Going.
• 1:47:37
  On it. Looks good when it's exploding,
• 1:47:39
  doesn't it? Fabulous.
• 1:47:41
  And actually, I do love when gross.
• 1:47:44
  See, I'd like the fact that there are comedy business.
• 1:47:46
  Grace comes in, pulls out all the wires and just goes oh God,
• 1:47:49
  what have I done? Like she.
• 1:47:51
  Doesn't have a clue. And yeah, actually all she does.
• 1:47:54
  Is put two wires together. She's very funny.
• 1:48:00
  Imagine we could have seen explosions in the TARDIS and you
• 1:48:03
  know, more of this. More of this please.
• 1:48:05
  Yeah, it's great. Yeah, but I even think I, I even
• 1:48:10
  think a climax in the TARDIS is a mistake, I think.
• 1:48:15
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:48:16
  What do you think coming ahead? That every story is going to end
• 1:48:19
  in the topics somehow? And I think that about the
• 1:48:23
  classic era as well, not to mention you Who.
• 1:48:26
  TARDIS is a means to get to the story, not the story itself.
• 1:48:30
  I mean, I'll give Cartmel his credit, he did recognize that,
• 1:48:33
  right? Yeah.
• 1:48:34
  Except in Silver Nemesis, where Moffett style, it could seem to
• 1:48:37
  go anywhere the Doctor wanted it to go.
• 1:48:40
  Although we don't we don't spend any time in the TARDIS in Silver
• 1:48:43
  Nemesis, do we? We don't have lengthy
• 1:48:45
  conversations every time he moves, which is.
• 1:48:48
  True. If Colin Baker had been pilots.
• 1:48:51
  And we have people making great entrances.
• 1:48:53
  Valerium is the ultimate power source on Gallery.
• 1:48:56
  That shot of the that low angle shot of the TARDIS is recreated
• 1:48:59
  in Boomtown. Absolutely.
• 1:49:02
  There's so many shots here if you look where they've gone.
• 1:49:05
  Oh yeah, let's do that from TV movie Joe O'hearns.
• 1:49:09
  Watch this. This is, I have to say this is
• 1:49:12
  a, a miracle of editing because there's so little really going
• 1:49:16
  on here and managing to build a climax out of, you know, some
• 1:49:20
  footage of a party and grace with these wires and.
• 1:49:24
  And the countdown, but the countdown just hopefully creates
• 1:49:28
  suspense because we're counting down to doom, but we don't quite
• 1:49:32
  know what that means or how we're getting there.
• 1:49:36
  Which is which is the better, more exciting New Year's Eve
• 1:49:40
  dramatic countdown? Is it this or is it Daleks
• 1:49:42
  Master Plan episode 7? Oh, I think they're on par.
• 1:49:46
  Don't you Episode 8? Don't write in Episode 8.
• 1:49:50
  Oh, yeah. Oh, now I will go get my mark.
• 1:49:53
  It'll be appalled, I think probably this, you know.
• 1:49:58
  OK. Yeah, yeah, it's got more of a
• 1:50:00
  sense of occasion, temporal orbit.
• 1:50:03
  What's a temporal orbit? She said.
• 1:50:04
  It's a little. Weird that they set it in 99 as
• 1:50:07
  well. What in 96?
• 1:50:09
  Yeah, I don't think it's strange that that's the kind of it's,
• 1:50:12
  it's a bit kind of zeitgeist series sort of when people were
• 1:50:14
  still excited about the Millennium as an as an idea.
• 1:50:18
  Well, yes, and it wasn't just this that, you know, it hit some
• 1:50:21
  of the books as well. But I expected a really exciting
• 1:50:25
  99 after watching this. And actually when the the
• 1:50:28
  Millennium hit, it was very anticlimactic.
• 1:50:31
  Well, no, no, something exciting happened, but time was reround.
• 1:50:35
  I. Just don't remember that what
• 1:50:38
  you're saying. He died and everything.
• 1:50:39
  Oh God, look at Eric Roberts now.
• 1:50:41
  No, it's going. That's a good handheld shot.
• 1:50:46
  Oh, I and I think, I genuinely think the fight in a minute is
• 1:50:51
  properly vicious in a way you don't normally see in Doctor
• 1:50:56
  Who. This probably has a good word.
• 1:51:00
  He picks up that big star, doesn't he?
• 1:51:01
  He's not smashing it about. And actually, Grace being tossed
• 1:51:05
  is quiet and a moment, isn't it? There's a sound when her neck
• 1:51:09
  breaks and it or maybe it's maybe that's cut or or turned
• 1:51:16
  down in in this version. Do we think she's dead?
• 1:51:18
  Like, do we think? She's dead.
• 1:51:20
  Dead like we're never going to shoot.
• 1:51:22
  There will be no magic solution to bring her back.
• 1:51:26
  I wasn't sure what to I have to say.
• 1:51:28
  They could do anything in this TV movie, couldn't they?
• 1:51:31
  And it's done some pretty dark stuff.
• 1:51:33
  Well, it's perverted continuity as well.
• 1:51:36
  It's changed so much, they can do literally anything.
• 1:51:39
  OK, so this was in the Newsround clip and you can see that coming
• 1:51:47
  in cold. This maybe felt a bit OTT even.
• 1:51:52
  On the back of the last sort of 20 minutes.
• 1:51:56
  Oh yeah, I know. It's it builds up.
• 1:51:58
  Positively subdued. It's a shame.
• 1:52:01
  It's a shame the fight is so short.
• 1:52:04
  Compare that to the the motorbike bit.
• 1:52:06
  I do love that. That does sound like an Eris
• 1:52:09
  award line, doesn't it? You want dominion over the
• 1:52:12
  living, yet all you do is kill. Yeah, although you know where
• 1:52:16
  the line life is wasted on the living comes from.
• 1:52:18
  Tell me. That's hitchhikers.
• 1:52:21
  Oh, great stuff. That's Xayford B Rox's dead
• 1:52:26
  grandfather. We have a saying up here.
• 1:52:29
  There's a. Wasted on the living.
• 1:52:32
  There is a very, very funny moment in the very last 8th
• 1:52:35
  Doctor book where he goes into a room and has a chat with the
• 1:52:41
  Master. And it turns out throughout the
• 1:52:43
  entire run of the 8th Doctor books, he's been having a natter
• 1:52:46
  with the Master pretty much every single book.
• 1:52:48
  We just didn't know about it. He'd been in there the whole
• 1:52:51
  time, and why not? Well of course it now turns out
• 1:52:55
  the Master will have been chatting with Sue Tech when when
• 1:52:58
  not talking to the Doctor or. Maybe he got put into a robot
• 1:53:03
  suit and turned into Derek Jacobi.
• 1:53:09
  Oh yeah, maybe that happened. Or maybe he found his way into
• 1:53:15
  the time space continuum and re manifested as a kind of
• 1:53:22
  religious maniac preacher guy. Yeah.
• 1:53:25
  Oh, who's that? That's in.
• 1:53:27
  That would be in the comic strip.
• 1:53:29
  Oh yes, of course, of course. Exactly from him being smiled by
• 1:53:33
  the TARDIS. Maybe he took a watch out of his
• 1:53:36
  pocket and became Derek Jappakami again.
• 1:53:39
  Why he needs to give his TARDIS a good hoop.
• 1:53:41
  That man who was hoovering in the Institute needs to come and
• 1:53:44
  Hoover the TARDIS next, because it's got all these dead leaves.
• 1:53:46
  Well. Where does all the wind come
• 1:53:48
  from? Where do the leaves come from?
• 1:53:52
  Well, yes indeed. Oh, I remember just being
• 1:53:57
  appalled by the fairy dust and now it's basically.
• 1:54:01
  It's basically the regeneration effect now, isn't it?
• 1:54:05
  Yeah, and and and it's, and it's so sentimental, isn't it?
• 1:54:09
  This and this. This is very Disney, isn't it?
• 1:54:12
  Absolute enough must mean this was, this was this is, this is
• 1:54:15
  like, I mean, Christopher H Bidmeade will be turning in his
• 1:54:18
  grave. An hour.
• 1:54:24
  Eric certainly wouldn't have brought anyone back to life,
• 1:54:26
  would he? He'd have been like, what, Only
• 1:54:30
  killed two people? Oh, there's a shot in a second
• 1:54:34
  where the three of them come down the stairs, and again, I
• 1:54:36
  was just seeing the show. So good, isn't it?
• 1:54:41
  And I love him punching the console as well.
• 1:54:43
  It feels like we're on our way to Doctor Who.
• 1:54:46
  Yeah. What's it called?
• 1:54:50
  Doctor Who? It was called Doctor Who.
• 1:54:53
  Not the enemy within. No, it was called Doctor Who.
• 1:54:57
  Did we check the Radio Times? No, you're OK.
• 1:55:00
  You're OK. Look at them coming down the
• 1:55:03
  stairs. Yeah, even that are you 2 are
• 1:55:06
  ghosts and I don't believe in ghosts.
• 1:55:07
  Great, great. And now he's oh, look at him at
• 1:55:13
  the TARDIS console. He's got his two companions,
• 1:55:18
  Grace and Chang Lee. It works, doesn't it?
• 1:55:21
  It really works. Actually, I even like them
• 1:55:25
  opening up the ceiling scanner now.
• 1:55:28
  OK, Oh, Gallifrey. And what is it?
• 1:55:31
  He says. Oh, it's a good 10 minutes in
• 1:55:32
  this old thing. Yeah, it's not a very good
• 1:55:36
  effect actually. No.
• 1:55:38
  How about a screen? How about a screen?
• 1:55:40
  What's wrong with the? Screen.
• 1:55:41
  He's got a screen. So why doesn't he use that?
• 1:55:45
  I'm showing off, showing off. Oh, it's was it?
• 1:55:52
  Oh, I couldn't live through that again.
• 1:55:53
  I definitely couldn't live through that again.
• 1:55:56
  Oh, it's just there. It's there for the taking.
• 1:56:00
  And you know what I would have loved to have seen, but
• 1:56:02
  obviously it wouldn't be on this budget.
• 1:56:03
  They'd probably do the episodes on probably a million or
• 1:56:06
  something like that. But like a historical, you know,
• 1:56:10
  a proper historical out in America somewhere.
• 1:56:13
  Oh boy, they could do an actual Western.
• 1:56:16
  Well, yeah, they could certainly give the gunfighters a run for
• 1:56:18
  its money. I'm not sure they can
• 1:56:19
  necessarily top it. Oh, he hits the.
• 1:56:24
  He looks. So I have to.
• 1:56:25
  Say, I don't think Paul Mcgahn necessarily feels comfortable in
• 1:56:30
  in quite a a number of scenes in this, but in that scene, he
• 1:56:34
  absolutely owns it. He's the doctor.
• 1:56:37
  I think I think the moments where he truly shines are in the
• 1:56:42
  park when he first goes into Grace's apartment and in a
• 1:56:46
  minute when they say goodbye, it's because he's saying real
• 1:56:50
  stuff in those things. You know, you haven't got a
• 1:56:53
  search. It's it's what he's spouting,
• 1:56:56
  exposition. That's.
• 1:56:57
  When? He's lost.
• 1:56:59
  He would have had terrible time in the chimney era.
• 1:57:04
  Oh, Gareth got a kiss. But don't worry, folks.
• 1:57:07
  If you want to learn more about that relationship, read the
• 1:57:10
  book. This is a lovely shot as well,
• 1:57:16
  isn't? It, well, it's a lovely
• 1:57:17
  location. But, and could that TARDIS
• 1:57:19
  materialisation as well? It's not just a rollback and
• 1:57:21
  fade, it's a, it's a, a proper, they properly kind of put a
• 1:57:26
  little wafty effect there, but it's, it's a subtle one too.
• 1:57:30
  And look at them coming down the steps together.
• 1:57:31
  Last time I know. Oh, the fireworks and the kiss.
• 1:57:36
  In a minute. Do you remember the end of the
• 1:57:37
  one Doctor? Do you remember where Hickman
• 1:57:42
  and Roberts they wanted to do a love letter to the TV movie?
• 1:57:44
  So it ends with Colin getting a kiss while a load of fireworks
• 1:57:47
  are going off. They thought Paul Mcgahn can
• 1:57:52
  have it, why not Colin? Oh, there you go again.
• 1:57:57
  Oh no, look at their hair, it must be pissing down.
• 1:58:00
  Absolutely drizzling every time they're outdoors.
• 1:58:03
  His hair goes completely wrong. Michael is right though.
• 1:58:06
  Come with me, you come with me. It's gorgeous.
• 1:58:11
  He's absolutely right that they're equals as well.
• 1:58:13
  It's oh. Yeah, it's, it's another one of
• 1:58:19
  those moments, isn't it? It's the, we could have had
• 1:58:22
  season 27. It's.
• 1:58:24
  Oh, my God, Cartwell could have written for Colin.
• 1:58:27
  And what would that have looked like?
• 1:58:29
  It's, do you know what I mean? There are moments in Doctor Who
• 1:58:31
  you're like, what? Yeah.
• 1:58:32
  Oh, Doctor Who in the 90s? What would that TV series look
• 1:58:35
  like? I remember probably about six
• 1:58:41
  months after this was broadcast, maybe a bit longer, but
• 1:58:43
  certainly when it was still kind of in the air as well.
• 1:58:46
  They they still have the option though.
• 1:58:48
  It was sort of becoming clear that they weren't going to do
• 1:58:49
  anything with it. I dreamt that there was a series
• 1:58:53
  of Doctor Who and I dreamt about the Grace and the Doctor in a,
• 1:58:57
  in a series of adventures. And it was glorious.
• 1:58:59
  And I woke up and I was very sad that it wasn't real.
• 1:59:02
  James. I've been thinking about that
• 1:59:04
  for 30 years. I've never stopped thinking
• 1:59:07
  about grace. I had a very, I mean, I had a
• 1:59:11
  very intense dream. So for all that I may not have
• 1:59:14
  liked it at the time of broadcast, it left enough for an
• 1:59:17
  impression that that kind of a few months later, I was I was my
• 1:59:21
  my psyche was well up for it. I wrote a short story with the
• 1:59:28
  8th Doctor and Grace in it, right And, and I don't write
• 1:59:32
  much anymore, but I just, I had this urge to write an 8th 8th
• 1:59:36
  Doctor and Grace Holloway story where I set the climax in the
• 1:59:41
  TARDIS. I said no, come on, be true to
• 1:59:43
  form. Do you think, do you think it
• 1:59:46
  always, always would have been in the TARDIS then?
• 1:59:49
  Well, no, because it's like a church.
• 1:59:50
  Basically. They rescue a load of colonists
• 1:59:53
  from a planet. Yeah.
• 1:59:54
  And then they go back to save some child that's been left
• 1:59:56
  behind. The TARDIS takes off and then it
• 1:59:59
  rematerialises again, but, you know, a few seconds later.
• 2:00:03
  But the TARDIS has been a wave of like 40,000 generations, and
• 2:00:07
  they've taken over the TARDIS, which is a church, and created a
• 2:00:09
  whole religion inside. And the Doctor's like, oh fuck,
• 2:00:12
  how am I going to get these people out of it?
• 2:00:15
  Do you need to dig out that story?
• 2:00:18
  Why do it in the book club? Yeah.
• 2:00:20
  Oh no, please. I'm not having you lock ripping
• 2:00:22
  it to pieces. Good grip.
• 2:00:23
  I'm very happy. What?
• 2:00:26
  Do we think of the What do we think of the bug style End with
• 2:00:30
  a joke? Oh, no, not again.
• 2:00:33
  At least he didn't go Well, it's the it's the horns of Nine One.
• 2:00:41
  Is it a boy? Yeah, it it really does go a bit
• 2:00:46
  Haunted 91, doesn't it? But I don't know where you go
• 2:00:49
  from. Don't know that?
• 2:00:50
  Let's look. Oh, yeah?
• 2:00:53
  Oh, no. He.
• 2:00:53
  Doesn't get a no, he doesn't get a credit because it's.
• 2:00:58
  At the pass. He gets a credit at the start.
• 2:01:01
  Does Paul Mcgannell get a credit then at the end?
• 2:01:04
  No. Well, that's outrageous.
• 2:01:06
  I'd never noticed that. Oh, hang on, I please.
• 2:01:09
  Oh, stop it. Where's yours gone to?
• 2:01:12
  Mine's gone to. It's gone to Genesis of the
• 2:01:15
  Talex. Why has mine gone to the
• 2:01:17
  animated Abominable Snowman episode 1?
• 2:01:20
  My iPlayer is in tune with my 16 year old self.
• 2:01:22
  And it's like Tom Bake. It knows what you need after
• 2:01:28
  that, doesn't it? I'm trying to watch the credits.
• 2:01:33
  That's so funny. Oh, OK.
• 2:01:35
  So we get executive producer of the BBC, visual effects producer
• 2:01:39
  Tony Zell, Co producer Matthew Jacobs with So actually the the
• 2:01:44
  end credits don't have the they don't have the the the top top
• 2:01:49
  build cast. James, do you know what I'm
• 2:01:51
  going to do right? Do you know what I'm going to
• 2:01:53
  do? And I'll be listening at the
• 2:01:54
  same time because obviously I I to war here your diary extracts,
• 2:02:00
  but I'm just going to check the cast online.
• 2:02:03
  All right. OK.
• 2:02:04
  Now could please you promised me your full thoughts age 16 of ATV
• 2:02:10
  movie. Now I've just had your thoughts
• 2:02:12
  aged, so let's let's go back in time now.
• 2:02:16
  So, 27th of May, Yes, the new Doctor Who.
• 2:02:24
  It started well, despite the rubbish new arrangement of the
• 2:02:28
  theme and quite a lot of suspense was built up.
• 2:02:32
  Sylvester McCoy got a bit to do, Not many lines.
• 2:02:36
  The regeneration was original, but I still rate the 1st as the
• 2:02:40
  best I have to say on that. On that point I think I agree
• 2:02:44
  with the 16 year old James Hart. Then the program sort of went
• 2:02:48
  downhill for a while. Nothing much happened.
• 2:02:51
  Then there was one nice scene with a motorbike that it all got
• 2:02:54
  very weird and very confusing and dare I say it, very
• 2:02:58
  American. It was a bit like the Batman
• 2:03:01
  films compared to the 60s series.
• 2:03:03
  Not such an extreme change, but the atmosphere was very Moody.
• 2:03:06
  Like the Batman films. It didn't feel like Doctor Who.
• 2:03:09
  The Invasion of Time may be poor, but at least it feels like
• 2:03:12
  Doctor Who. Oh.
• 2:03:15
  OK, that's the gauge, right? Yeah, it might be shit, but it's
• 2:03:19
  still Doctor Who, OK? Paul McGann was OK, I suppose,
• 2:03:24
  but not very imaginative like Peter Davison his character is.
• 2:03:28
  It's a good job we saved this bit for the end, yeah.
• 2:03:33
  Oh my God. Lucy McCall, Luke Sims, Jenkins.
• 2:03:37
  Sorry guys, I was 16. I have changed my opinion about
• 2:03:40
  all this as well. Like Peter Davison, his
• 2:03:42
  character is a little bland, not that he got much chance to show
• 2:03:46
  a character. I mean, I didn't have not a
• 2:03:51
  point there, right? No.
• 2:03:53
  And we did. We were sort of appalled at how
• 2:03:56
  late in the day he actually showed up.
• 2:03:58
  But when he did show up, he showed up.
• 2:04:00
  I. Agree, but I but I but I do I
• 2:04:02
  can see where I was coming from, which is that we didn't get to
• 2:04:04
  see much of it. And actually, interestingly then
• 2:04:07
  I say the Master was much better than I was expecting, but still
• 2:04:10
  not as good. As Anthony Ainley.
• 2:04:13
  Of course, Roger Delgado. Of course, goes without saying.
• 2:04:18
  I videoed it, but I don't know whether I'll watch it much.
• 2:04:21
  I wasn't very happy by the end of it.
• 2:04:23
  So many things happened to upset me.
• 2:04:24
  For a start, they shot my favorite doctor.
• 2:04:27
  There wasn't much humour and unlike the other doctors, Paul
• 2:04:29
  McGann was not a reassuring figure that made you feel safe.
• 2:04:32
  Whatever happened, I'd much rather watch a good old Hammy
• 2:04:36
  Trouten or poetry story. Which reminds me, at the end it
• 2:04:40
  said Dedicated to John Poetry 1919 to 1996.
• 2:04:43
  I liked that. That's the.
• 2:04:46
  Big. Once it was over.
• 2:04:50
  Oh, James. A few days later I write Mum and
• 2:04:54
  Dad went out at 8:00 to have a drink with some friends.
• 2:04:58
  So this says it all. So I watched an episode of The
• 2:05:04
  Chase to reassure myself that the universe isn't all American.
• 2:05:09
  The Chase has a sequence set in America.
• 2:05:13
  Don't ask me to justify everything I wrote.
• 2:05:16
  Reassuringly made in lime growth.
• 2:05:19
  Though I, I, I obviously videoed it and I did watch it again and
• 2:05:28
  you there are very like I talk about it days after I mean,
• 2:05:32
  what, what have I, what have I got here?
• 2:05:34
  I've written here. I'm finding it increasingly hard
• 2:05:36
  to actually sit down and work. That's because you spend all
• 2:05:39
  your time watching Doctor Who, you idiot.
• 2:05:43
  The Telegraph. The Telegraph week's TV review
• 2:05:47
  said that the fact that Doctor Who was American, with its
• 2:05:50
  X-Files type slime possessing bodies and car chases, it was
• 2:05:54
  just like any other program, saved only by Paul Mcgahn's
• 2:05:57
  brilliant portrayal of an eccentric Victorian.
• 2:06:00
  I don't know, I wasn't too sure about Paul Mcgahn.
• 2:06:03
  Half the time he was too normal to be eccentric, and in places
• 2:06:07
  he seemed to be attempting eccentricity but only succeeding
• 2:06:09
  in being thoroughly weird. Again, there's a grain of there
• 2:06:16
  are scenes where he isn't comfortable with the
• 2:06:18
  eccentricity, so. I think that's true and I think
• 2:06:22
  actually you listen to his audio performances going forward, they
• 2:06:25
  push away. He's not the most eccentric of
• 2:06:28
  doctors, is he? No.
• 2:06:30
  He's quite human. I've got a.
• 2:06:32
  Feeling though, that I will enjoy it more the second time
• 2:06:35
  because I know what to expect. We shall see.
• 2:06:38
  I end this diary entry. James Lark, diarist for the
• 2:06:41
  ages, ends this this entry. On the 1st of June.
• 2:06:45
  I'm going to clean my teeth. Now James, I rather enjoy the
• 2:06:52
  the notion that you might not watch the TV movie again.
• 2:06:57
  How many times do you imagine you have watched the TV movie
• 2:07:00
  since that first viewing? Oh, very many.
• 2:07:03
  So I watched it again on June the 10th.
• 2:07:06
  This would be the second viewing.
• 2:07:08
  This is I meant to be revising for my GCS ES and I'm I'm
• 2:07:12
  watching Doctor Who all the time.
• 2:07:14
  I didn't. That's what exam leave was for.
• 2:07:17
  Of course I didn't have any exams today and as I finished
• 2:07:19
  most of the revision I have to do by 12:00, I decided no you
• 2:07:22
  didn't. You're a lie.
• 2:07:23
  I'd like to watch Doctor Who the movie for want of a better name.
• 2:07:27
  I enjoyed it much more this time.
• 2:07:29
  Again, I think the last half hour is a billion times not as
• 2:07:32
  good as the first half hour, but despite the not very brilliant
• 2:07:35
  script, the overall impression was quite good.
• 2:07:38
  I actually found the funny bits funny this time round, apart
• 2:07:40
  from some of the very American jokes.
• 2:07:43
  A little racist, wasn't I? A billion times better.
• 2:07:48
  That's that's what I said. That's quite a scale.
• 2:07:53
  I was really down on it nine days later where I say I got
• 2:07:59
  very indignant towards the end because I realised that Paul
• 2:08:01
  McGann shouts every line in the last half hour.
• 2:08:05
  Not that I mind Paul McGann shouting, but Doctor Who
• 2:08:08
  magazine once accused Sylvester McCoy of spending most of his
• 2:08:10
  first story running around shouting and gurning, and in the
• 2:08:13
  same article saying Paul McGann establishes his character faster
• 2:08:16
  than any of the other previous doctors.
• 2:08:19
  What character? Oh God, I wish I knew you that
• 2:08:28
  age. Oh man, you.
• 2:08:30
  You felt things very deeply, didn't you?
• 2:08:34
  I certainly did you. Did you?
• 2:08:36
  Did? I think it's rather wonderful.
• 2:08:37
  I wish I had Diaries from back then.
• 2:08:39
  You know, it's like a little. Do you though?
• 2:08:41
  I do, I do. It's like a fabulous pocket of
• 2:08:45
  time. We're.
• 2:08:46
  We're enjoying every time we do this.
• 2:08:50
  Oh boy. I mean, how do you imagine you
• 2:08:53
  would have rated the TV movie sort of back then?
• 2:08:58
  Yeah, sort of out of 10. Out of 10.
• 2:09:01
  Oh, I don't know, I mean, so The funny thing is obviously it, it
• 2:09:05
  was a, a, a a veritable gut punch at the time, but they
• 2:09:11
  you've got the, the proof that I watched it kind of twice within,
• 2:09:14
  you know, the the next fortnight by the by that summer, I'd
• 2:09:19
  finished my GCS ES and I went to my mum's school.
• 2:09:23
  She taught in an Infant School and I'd just recently bought a
• 2:09:27
  camcorder and I spent my like my post GCSE project in the last
• 2:09:33
  weeks, two weeks of her term was I spent two weeks making this
• 2:09:37
  like short film with her class. And in this film I played a
• 2:09:42
  character called the boss. And would you would you like to
• 2:09:46
  guess how I dressed as the boss? As the boss.
• 2:09:54
  Not like the master in this as the Terminator.
• 2:09:57
  Slicked back hair, glasses, all blasts.
• 2:10:01
  I loved it, really and. I and I underscored certain
• 2:10:04
  scenes with John Debney's music so clearly it it did make an
• 2:10:10
  impression and it probably was kind of a gateway to watching
• 2:10:14
  some more grown up television in a in a funny kind of way.
• 2:10:17
  Because what didn't look like Doctor Who the first time around
• 2:10:21
  obviously looks just like Doctor Who within a few months of
• 2:10:24
  watching it repeatedly when I should have been revising for my
• 2:10:26
  GCCS. What's interesting is that I
• 2:10:30
  know, I know that you have enormous love for the 8th Doctor
• 2:10:38
  comic strips, and I'm getting the sense from comments that
• 2:10:43
  you've set into Finish Big that you certainly followed the early
• 2:10:47
  days of the 8th Doctor on audio. Oh, I was so excited when they
• 2:10:52
  when they when they when they got Paul McGann.
• 2:10:55
  I was, I was, well, I was still sending off for them by post I
• 2:10:59
  think in those days, but I was certainly pre-ordered that one.
• 2:11:03
  So you certainly won't put off the 8th Doctor.
• 2:11:06
  You know, at some point you just went, do you know what?
• 2:11:08
  All right, that was that and let's see what's next.
• 2:11:11
  I think I wish now I had embraced it a bit more.
• 2:11:16
  Like there's there's some really good stuff in that brief period
• 2:11:19
  when when they were kind of releasing things with Paul
• 2:11:22
  Mcgahn's face on it. At the time I was it's not
• 2:11:25
  really my ear of Doctor Who. He's not my doctor.
• 2:11:28
  Hashtag not my doctor. Hashtag Who the fuck is John
• 2:11:31
  Novak? And John Novak is Doctor
• 2:11:34
  Salinger, so you was right. He was the fellow who's gonna
• 2:11:38
  blast up with lasers, you know, and talks to Grace the next day.
• 2:11:42
  Get a credit before right? Why does he get a credit like
• 2:11:45
  after everyone? I think he's not had a
• 2:11:47
  particularly sparkling career. Blood Rain 2 Deliverance Sliders
• 2:11:56
  Fantastic Oh, he was in Fantastic Four.
• 2:11:57
  That's not bad. Stargate SG-1 Supernatural.
• 2:12:01
  He's a sort of that guy, you know, he.
• 2:12:03
  He will have been a a big enough name that his agent was able to
• 2:12:07
  get him a a a A name before. Where was he 6th?
• 2:12:11
  I wonder how silly he feels now because it's just it's it's
• 2:12:14
  ridiculous that his name is there.
• 2:12:20
  It'd be like if who's the guy in Rose who with the sheds who's
• 2:12:24
  investigating the? Clive Mark Benton.
• 2:12:27
  It'd be like if Mark Benton's name was after Billie Piper in
• 2:12:30
  the titles. Well, well, yes, I mean, Mark
• 2:12:34
  Bennett was back though with a big finish, wasn't it?
• 2:12:36
  Mad you everyone's been back for fucking big finish?
• 2:12:38
  Good grace get. The list the ones who.
• 2:12:40
  Haven't except Grace. We've had Daphne Atbrook back.
• 2:12:44
  No. Grace for God's sake.
• 2:12:45
  For shame. Sorry I forget what I was
• 2:12:50
  saying, but oh the the the Doctor Who found an.
• 2:12:53
  Extended universe, you know. I've, you know, of course, my
• 2:12:57
  biggest regret, given that I was by then a fan of The New
• 2:13:00
  Adventures. Why, why the hell didn't I go
• 2:13:03
  out and buy The Dying Days when that was on the shelves of WH
• 2:13:06
  Smith's? What?
• 2:13:07
  What an idiot. What a fool.
• 2:13:09
  And I'm pleased because obviously you ducked out you, I
• 2:13:14
  think you must have read some of those early 8th Doctor books and
• 2:13:16
  was so appalled by War of the Daleks and Legacy of the Daleks.
• 2:13:21
  I read the two Dalek ones and I thought, well these are shit.
• 2:13:23
  Yeah, this is there is no going back.
• 2:13:25
  This is of a quality. I cannot justify spending my
• 2:13:29
  money when I'm supposed to be paying for my education, but I
• 2:13:33
  am pleased that I'm able to now fill in some of the gaps via the
• 2:13:37
  book club. You know, I don't want you to
• 2:13:39
  embrace those books, but I do want you to have a flavour of
• 2:13:44
  the quality and the diversity that's there.
• 2:13:47
  Absolutely. And and you've, you've, you've
• 2:13:51
  spoken with compelling passion about the Edas and I'm, I'm, I,
• 2:13:57
  I'm looking forward to. It's as irrational as your
• 2:14:01
  passion in your Diaries, my passion for those books.
• 2:14:05
  Well, James, now there is something we have to do before
• 2:14:09
  we go, obviously, and that is select our three fabulous things
• 2:14:14
  to recommend the TV movie. I mean, this will be easy for
• 2:14:16
  me, very easy indeed. I could give you 15, but I'll
• 2:14:19
  I'll stick with three. Yeah, I'm not going to struggle,
• 2:14:23
  but it's, I mean, obviously John Novak's quite near the top of my
• 2:14:27
  list. Is it for the lasers line?
• 2:14:31
  I mean, no one could say that line like him.
• 2:14:34
  Blasted with lasers. I like the woman who goes.
• 2:14:41
  Who's going first? You go first come.
• 2:14:44
  On right, I got to have him before you do John Debney.
• 2:14:47
  I thought you were going to say John Novak.
• 2:14:52
  John. Debney.
• 2:14:53
  Yes, damn it. OK, go on.
• 2:14:56
  It's it's a gorgeous soundtrack. It's, it's really classy and
• 2:15:00
  it's got, I mean, I think, I, I think that I, I don't want to
• 2:15:05
  kind of, I don't want to make everything about classic who,
• 2:15:10
  but I also don't think I can overstate the impact that kind
• 2:15:14
  of late classic who soundtracks had on my appreciation of the,
• 2:15:21
  the, the art of television music.
• 2:15:23
  And certainly Doctor Who in the late 80s had music like no other
• 2:15:26
  television programme had. And like Doctor Who really had
• 2:15:30
  no right to expect. And I think that they, those,
• 2:15:34
  those, those late era scores get better each year.
• 2:15:39
  And, and I genuinely, I think that even though the, there have
• 2:15:45
  been some great composers right for, for, for Doctor Who over
• 2:15:49
  the years, even in the shadow of like Geoffrey Bergen, I think
• 2:15:54
  Mark Hares certainly was doing stuff that no composer had ever
• 2:15:57
  done for Doctor Who before in terms of thematic development
• 2:16:00
  and the, and the, the narrative thread that was that ran through
• 2:16:06
  his scores. So I was really, really worried
• 2:16:09
  about this as a 16 year old, that they were going to fuck
• 2:16:12
  that up. And, and, and they, they don't.
• 2:16:15
  And actually, they deliver a score which is, is eloquent and
• 2:16:18
  dramatic and so unusual actually in a way that you don't
• 2:16:26
  necessarily appreciate when you're watching it because it's
• 2:16:30
  very elegantly mixed as well. When you listen to the score in
• 2:16:35
  isolation, bits of it are, are absolutely batshit in a good
• 2:16:39
  way. And I, I think we're really
• 2:16:42
  lucky that that a composer as, as class and actors, John Debney
• 2:16:47
  got this gig and delivered a score that sounds like they've
• 2:16:51
  got a real orchestra in a studio playing it.
• 2:16:54
  And for the most part, it's it's samples, but they're darn good
• 2:16:58
  samples. I think this must be the quiet
• 2:17:02
  early in his career, right? I think 1015 years later, I'm
• 2:17:07
  not sure they would have got John Debney for Doctor Who.
• 2:17:10
  Yeah. They wouldn't have done no, he's
• 2:17:11
  he's had a he's had a, he's had a very impressive career.
• 2:17:14
  You're. Right.
• 2:17:14
  You know that bit? You know that bit where they put
• 2:17:18
  the axe through the door? Yes.
• 2:17:20
  And they go. Door and the music's going.
• 2:17:22
  It's like absolutely crazy. It's like, what the fuck were
• 2:17:26
  you on when you wrote this? But that's Doctor Who, right?
• 2:17:29
  Yeah, yeah. John Deppney, Paddy Kingsland,
• 2:17:34
  Marcus Marie Gold, Second Akinola.
• 2:17:37
  Oh, the music of Doctor Who is just wonderful.
• 2:17:41
  Well, my first thing then is going to be given.
• 2:17:45
  I have done the TV movie about 500 times on this thing.
• 2:17:48
  I need to try and choose new things.
• 2:17:50
  But actually what I want to say is Jeffrey Sachs, who
• 2:17:56
  incomprehending as to why he actually got this job, came
• 2:18:01
  across to America and took on what was probably.
• 2:18:06
  A. Huge.
• 2:18:07
  I mean, go read James Larks Diaries.
• 2:18:10
  Huge expectations from many directions.
• 2:18:16
  And if you look at his career, you look at his career before
• 2:18:18
  this, it is little, little dramas.
• 2:18:21
  Yeah, it's small things. This is the biggest thing he's
• 2:18:23
  done in his career to this point and I think he's a little too
• 2:18:30
  energetic in places. He's a little eccentric in
• 2:18:34
  places. Feels like he's trying a bit too
• 2:18:36
  hard sometimes. Fucking loves the close up like
• 2:18:38
  you wouldn't believe. There's cameras right in
• 2:18:40
  people's faces. I mean, there's more exposures
• 2:18:44
  than to clocks than I've ever seen before in my entire life.
• 2:18:48
  But at times it's really artful, genuinely suspenseful, really
• 2:18:54
  exciting. I think you've got some of the
• 2:18:58
  most expensive looking set pieces we ever had.
• 2:19:02
  And if that's style over substance, what style?
• 2:19:07
  Agree, and he did it in two weeks as well which is just.
• 2:19:12
  Crazy. Ludicrous.
• 2:19:15
  Oh, and bravo for cutting out the crowd saying give him the
• 2:19:18
  keys. Yes, he he cut the right stuff.
• 2:19:22
  I'm going to again before you take it, I'm going to am I going
• 2:19:26
  to say the TARDIS set or am I just going to say the TARDIS
• 2:19:28
  console? I'm not going to say that at
• 2:19:30
  all. OK, well, I, I I'm going to say
• 2:19:32
  the console. I like, I like the set, although
• 2:19:35
  I think some of it doesn't work. I think it's weird that there
• 2:19:38
  are there's a conservative full of pot plants.
• 2:19:40
  I think the eye of harm and the cloister room is is like it's
• 2:19:45
  worth it I guess for the staircase but it it feels
• 2:19:51
  unnecessary. Ostentatious.
• 2:19:54
  Every single shot around that console looks a billion dollars.
• 2:20:00
  It's such a good set and I don't know that we've ever had a
• 2:20:05
  better TARDIS set. Oh, no way.
• 2:20:07
  No way. The Kapoldi one came, came
• 2:20:10
  close. close, yeah, but they just don't quite have the room
• 2:20:14
  as well. I don't know.
• 2:20:16
  Oh yeah, that is. Actually the way because you
• 2:20:19
  don't want the TARDIS to be too big, certainly not big and and
• 2:20:23
  brightly lit anyway. The the shadows are are are are
• 2:20:27
  worth a lot in that set because it's because if if you look at
• 2:20:30
  the stills, if you look at the photos or the the the behind the
• 2:20:34
  scenes footage, it looks tiny and it looks kind of a bit kind
• 2:20:39
  of ropey. It's just they've lit it really
• 2:20:41
  well and then shot it on film. But it's you know, that's what
• 2:20:44
  what it was built you. Could say that about the whole
• 2:20:45
  movie. They've lit it really well and
• 2:20:47
  shot it on film. I mean, did you know that a
• 2:20:51
  fella has recreated that console room in America?
• 2:20:55
  From the original or or or from scratch.
• 2:20:59
  From scratch. He literally has the TV movie
• 2:21:03
  console room in like a massive basement he could have
• 2:21:08
  adventures in. I mean, Doctor Who fans are just
• 2:21:11
  barking, aren't they? It's madness.
• 2:21:14
  Well, for my second thing then I, oh man, I can't not.
• 2:21:18
  I can't not. I've chosen her every time.
• 2:21:20
  And I want to choose Daphne Ashbrook again.
• 2:21:23
  Do you know what? Partly for the performance that
• 2:21:26
  she gives, partly because she didn't have a fucking clue what
• 2:21:29
  she was walking in on, and that she's embraced Doctor Who since
• 2:21:34
  in lots of different ways. And she didn't have to do that
• 2:21:37
  because this wasn't a massive success.
• 2:21:40
  And she could have just considered it a line on her CVA
• 2:21:43
  bit like sort of Sheila Hancock does, you know, goes, oh, I
• 2:21:46
  don't really need to talk about that.
• 2:21:48
  Instead, she embraces the fans. And she's had a career outside
• 2:21:51
  of Doctor Who. She's done stuff.
• 2:21:52
  She's written autobiography, she's done other movies.
• 2:21:56
  She doesn't need this. But boy, I mean, I saw her at a
• 2:22:00
  convention last year in Derby. She got on the stage and what
• 2:22:04
  did Tom Baker say? She glittered like a light bulb.
• 2:22:07
  It didn't matter that Gemma Boring, Gemma Redgrave was on
• 2:22:10
  the stage and Paul Mcgahn, man, it was Charismalis next to
• 2:22:14
  Daphne Ashbrook. She had that audience in the
• 2:22:16
  palm of her hands. She's just great.
• 2:22:19
  Plus, you also did tell Mark in a cameo that I loved him.
• 2:22:23
  And then a few years later, she asked Mark.
• 2:22:26
  She asked. Mark, if he would marry me and
• 2:22:30
  then when I saw her in the convention, I don't know if you
• 2:22:32
  remember this, but I, I did a cameo and asked you to tell my
• 2:22:37
  partner that I loved him. And she she remembered, she
• 2:22:41
  went. That was one of my first ones.
• 2:22:44
  She went, how did it go? And then I just went and he was
• 2:22:48
  behind me and. She went, she just go over and
• 2:22:51
  slipped through her arms around. She goes, I've created love and
• 2:22:54
  it was all very over the top and wonderful.
• 2:22:58
  But I do think she is genuinely good in the movie.
• 2:23:03
  I think she's given great lines. She does have good chemistry.
• 2:23:07
  Report McGann. And it's one of my biggest what
• 2:23:11
  ifs is what if we'd had more of Paul McGann and Daphne Ashbrook,
• 2:23:16
  I think they would have been one of the best.
• 2:23:18
  If they had gone along, I think they would have been great.
• 2:23:21
  I think I maybe missed quite how brilliant she was at the time
• 2:23:25
  because I couldn't see past kind of the the look, which was again
• 2:23:30
  this kind of it. It it in all the still
• 2:23:33
  photographs she looks like, oh, they, it's an X-Files knock off,
• 2:23:37
  isn't it? They.
• 2:23:38
  She does look like Jillian. Absent.
• 2:23:39
  Yes. But of course, but of course
• 2:23:41
  she's, she's so unique and so individual and, and all, I mean,
• 2:23:44
  the knowing how to look at the camera.
• 2:23:47
  Oh boy. Or the bit, you know, the bit
• 2:23:50
  where the man drives the motorbike in and she just goes,
• 2:23:54
  Oh my, she goes in like it's just little moments like that.
• 2:23:59
  I was just oh, she's great. Anyway, back to you.
• 2:24:02
  So beautiful. She, I mean, she doesn't look at
• 2:24:05
  all like Grace Kelly, but she does have, there is something of
• 2:24:09
  the 30s. Yeah.
• 2:24:11
  Hollywood star about her isn't there?
• 2:24:13
  Yes, porcelain and and that entrance in slow motion running
• 2:24:22
  down that corridor. Oh fabulous.
• 2:24:25
  I could choose many other members of the cast.
• 2:24:29
  I could choose EG So I could choose Eric Roberts.
• 2:24:33
  I could choose Sylvester Bloody McCoy.
• 2:24:38
  I could choose actually, but I think I want to choose the minor
• 2:24:44
  characters. I think one of the joys of this,
• 2:24:49
  which was again, one of the frustrations at the time because
• 2:24:51
  you wanted this time with the Doctor.
• 2:24:53
  But actually it's a it's a story populated with these little
• 2:24:58
  parts. And every time I rewatch it, I
• 2:25:01
  appreciate more the the Professor wags the Gareths the.
• 2:25:10
  Hey. What's her name?
• 2:25:12
  Wheeler Catherine. Catherine Love's character than
• 2:25:16
  you know, in the the nurse, she's she's really good.
• 2:25:20
  What Curtis you're talking about?
• 2:25:22
  Oh, sorry, is that Curtis? Oh, I love Curtis.
• 2:25:25
  Dr. Holloway, it's Brian. Who's Wheeler?
• 2:25:29
  I don't know. I can't.
• 2:25:31
  Doctor Salinger, our Novak himself.
• 2:25:34
  John Novak. Oh, Gareth.
• 2:25:39
  Yeah. Oh, they're lovely.
• 2:25:41
  The man with the Hoover. The man with the Hoover, Pete
• 2:25:47
  and Ted. I'd, I, I, I, I love that they
• 2:25:52
  are so vividly portrayed in in so few minutes of screen time
• 2:25:57
  and it feels like a properly kind of populated fun world to
• 2:26:00
  inhabit And, and I sort of wish we could have spent the whole 90
• 2:26:04
  minutes in that world rather than in the TARDIS.
• 2:26:07
  I agree. Yeah.
• 2:26:09
  Oh, come on. Drag Curtis into the climax,
• 2:26:12
  please. Can she turn up in every episode
• 2:26:15
  and just go Doctor Holloway? It's Brian.
• 2:26:17
  He wants to move back in, you know?
• 2:26:20
  Oh, fabulous. Oh, man.
• 2:26:22
  Like, the obvious thing is to mention Paul McGann because none
• 2:26:26
  of us have. But you know, like, we all know
• 2:26:28
  Paul McGann is fantastic as the Doctor.
• 2:26:32
  We know that he thought of this or himself as a flop in the role
• 2:26:38
  because it didn't go to series and it was a long road to him.
• 2:26:43
  Getting on the horse, agreeing to do the audios and then
• 2:26:48
  tentatively coming to conventions before realizing
• 2:26:53
  what a fabulous cash cow is in your later years and diving in
• 2:27:00
  making a fucking min right up to like you know you were there and
• 2:27:04
  so was I. The Big finish live him and
• 2:27:07
  India Fisher on the stage were magnificent.
• 2:27:11
  So it goes without saying that Paul began was a success, so
• 2:27:16
  much so that of course he was acknowledged.
• 2:27:18
  When the new series came back, he was given a regeneration
• 2:27:21
  which we all wanted and has released maybe 7000 Big Finish
• 2:27:27
  releases now, I don't know. There's a lot of them.
• 2:27:30
  Yeah, yeah, there's a lot of them and he is one of my
• 2:27:34
  absolute favourites. However, my last thing must go
• 2:27:38
  to Eric Roberts, who you know, he's camp, he's over the top.
• 2:27:44
  He, he knows how to make an entrance.
• 2:27:46
  He rocks the Time Lord collar. He.
• 2:27:48
  Always dresses for the occasion. Oh my God, he doesn't just
• 2:27:52
  swallow, he spits as well. I mean, he's just he.
• 2:27:57
  Well, first he swallows early and then he spits later.
• 2:28:02
  I think it's less fun without him.
• 2:28:04
  I think it would be, I think. I think he brings a nice element
• 2:28:08
  of the sinister and of the ridiculous as well.
• 2:28:12
  You know that stupid bit where where he's been a fire
• 2:28:17
  extinguisher in the cabinets and he's just going.
• 2:28:19
  No, no, no, no. That's just like, so ridiculous.
• 2:28:24
  But God's sakes and life is wasted on the living.
• 2:28:29
  Just every line is just fabulous.
• 2:28:32
  It's. So quotable, isn't it?
• 2:28:34
  But it's all his lines are the quotable ones.
• 2:28:37
  It reminds me of Angela Bruce in the Bambera audios.
• 2:28:45
  Yeah. OK, in in no way could you call
• 2:28:48
  the performance a skilled 1, but you're heartily entertained
• 2:28:54
  every time they've got a camera stroke microphone on them.
• 2:29:00
  Yes actually it's just great. I love over the top villains,
• 2:29:03
  although I can imagine for a lot of people that was another
• 2:29:06
  reason to hate this. Wholeheartedly.
• 2:29:18
  I'm oh bless no one chose Paul McGann.
• 2:29:20
  Poor sod. Well James, I mean, do you have
• 2:29:22
  a last a last minute diary extract?
• 2:29:26
  Just something amusing that you could pull out for us.
• 2:29:30
  Oh, just just this, just just this thought to to end on
• 2:29:35
  something that I, I would like you all to ponder in the weeks
• 2:29:41
  ahead. Why couldn't he be English with
• 2:29:44
  a beard and without that ridiculous voice?
• 2:29:49
  Absolute stunning points there. Stunning points.
• 2:29:52
  I feel like you should have been showrunner of Doctor Who the
• 2:29:55
  movie age 16, you know, and then have they put out something that
• 2:29:59
  looked like the invasion of time?
• 2:30:02
  I I wonder America, man, they might have gobbled it up.
• 2:30:06
  They might have done. They might have done.
• 2:30:09
  We'll never know, sadly. We'll never know, James.
• 2:30:12
  I've only got one last question to ask you before.
• 2:30:15
  And thank you for reading your diary.
• 2:30:17
  It remains one of the great joys of my life.
• 2:30:21
  Do you read it? And how you.
• 2:30:23
  I mean, I don't think you have to try.
• 2:30:25
  You just become 16 again when you read it out.
• 2:30:28
  It's just wonderful. Where the hell are we going
• 2:30:31
  next? Oh.
• 2:30:33
  I hate to say it, but we're going to a pair of episodes.
• 2:30:38
  I'm not. Or should I leave my powder dry?
• 2:30:42
  I'm excited, or maybe not excited to say that we're going
• 2:30:45
  to a pair of episodes that I may or may not have strong negative
• 2:30:48
  feelings about, which are Dark Water and Death in Heaven.
• 2:30:54
  Might be the sort of wettest sort of dry that I've ever heard
• 2:30:58
  when someone's trying to keep their powder dry.
• 2:31:00
  Well, no, we're sort of doing a double bill, aren't we?
• 2:31:03
  We're doing a Moffitt 2 parter that I'm all right with.
• 2:31:07
  I mean, and that's high priorities for me and one I
• 2:31:12
  absolutely hate. And you're you're doing 1, which
• 2:31:16
  you haven't really had a great reaction to in the past, but and
• 2:31:20
  then another one which you're quite keen on.
• 2:31:22
  Which I quite like, yeah. Yeah, well, all of it.
• 2:31:25
  All of it. The first of the two more than
• 2:31:30
  the second. Oh, how intriguing.
• 2:31:33
  Dark Water and Death in Heaven and the Magician's Apprentice
• 2:31:37
  and the Witch's Familiar. Thank God somebody's finally
• 2:31:40
  doing these. Willing to take me on with these
• 2:31:42
  Moffitt 2 parters, because nobody's quite brave enough.
• 2:31:46
  I think I might have scared Jo M off completely now after doing
• 2:31:49
  the robot revolution with me. We'll see.
• 2:31:52
  James, it's been a delightful Oh, good grief, have we been
• 2:31:57
  going for three hours? 7 hours, we're just going.
• 2:32:00
  To have. We're just going to have, I said
• 2:32:02
  we'd cheat death. We more or less have.
• 2:32:07
  How do we end this in ATV movie sort of a way?
• 2:32:12
  Come with me. Oh.
• 2:32:14
  Oh beautiful. What?
• 2:32:15
  The is that not how we did it? Is that not how we did the book
• 2:32:18
  club one? I've not listened that far it.
• 2:32:20
  Absolutely is and Oh my God, right.
• 2:32:24
  I will end on you saying come with me.
• 2:32:26
  Because it's us. I will say it again, then I'll
• 2:32:29
  cut it in. Come on.
• 2:32:30
  Say what again? Come with me.
• 2:32:32
  No, because that's how we ended the last one.
• 2:32:34
  What's wrong with that? I'm rolling back time.
• 2:32:37
  No, I'm rolling back time. We're not doing that.
• 2:32:42
  No, no, don't cut it there because I've come up with a line
• 2:32:44
  now. Oh, go on.
• 2:32:46
  OK, where to next? Oh no, not again.
• 2:32:51
  Boing, can I cut it there? Is that all right?