Latest / CrossPolitic Show / Future of America: Protestant or Catholic?

Transcript

Future of America: Protestant or Catholic? · CrossPolitic Show

• Hey, oh, welcome to Cross-Paltice on the Fight Live Feast Network. It's good to be with you. It's good to be live. It's gonna be live. Pass your tome. I'm these two nights. I'm the water boy and bookers Tuesday. Did we miss the fourth? Single the mile day. Single the mile. Today's single the mile. We already celebrated it. Oh, that's why we love celebrating Mexico. Yeah. Mexico don't celebrate this day. Americans do. And it's kind of our way of celebrating our Mexican brothers. The American food that comes. I'm single tomorrow. Yeah. The talker. Yeah. My mom loves celebrating it. We you know, Texas is a bigger holiday than it is up here. You know, Tex Max, all that stuff. And so mom gets at the pinnottas, all that stuff. All the America stuff. All that America stuff. And we love celebrating our brothers to the South. So that's, you know, I'm not going to say that. So salute to Mexico. No. No, no, no, nothing. I got nowhere with these guys. Hey, guys, thank you for joining us. The show today is as you see the title in your, did you share the show yet? Did you like it? Did you comment? All that? Yes. Future of America, Protestant or Catholic. This is actually kind of, I guess some sort of intermural debate sort of. I think it's too early to be having personally. We don't need to have America back yet. I mean, I mean, the first Protestants like they didn't have anything either. What do you mean? They didn't have the nations like then there wasn't like, it was chaos. Yeah. And Calvin and Luther were like, you know, they weren't doing a whole lot of partner now. Remember that time. No. They didn't need each other to. It wasn't the Roman Catholic church. Wouldn't partner with them. That conversation with them. Kind of hard to partner with somebody who's trying to burn you at the state. And I feel like that that's what the Calis are going to say to us after this show. I think they're going to say it's kind of hard to partner with you guys. If we're not going to be in America. But it does seem like it to be very fair. It feels like that part of the conversation we're having right now is we're seeing a lot of, I'm seeing a lot of Presbyterians who I thought were solid Presbyterians or some who have claimed these high Presbyterians kind of go the way of Rome. Going hoping. Yeah. Yeah. They play in popin' the back of the truck. Yeah. Yeah. That's so I'm seeing that. And it's kind of like, oh, it's like, that's I'm not something's going on here. Right. I just chalk it up to like, and they really like Nancy Pelosi. Joe Biden. You know, they're like, man, look at those, those Catholics. No, it's no, I think you're right. It's a, I don't know. I've seen this over 20, almost 30 years now. Yeah. It seems like there's there's waves of this. Yeah. Of and I think because of the turmoil and the chaos that we live in, it's it's in it. There's a lot of it. There's a temptation, I think, to try to find the solid ground. So called. And I believe that many Protestants begin hunting for that solid ground in Rome. And I think part of it has become that we are finding ourselves as minorities in America. So then what would you have to do is my Christians are Christians are. Yes. And this is, this is what minorities in America have done is they group together with people to make a larger group of people to come a majority to fight against the majority. And so what's happened now in America is that because process becomes smaller, which is really weird. Because technically with the numbers, we haven't. I mean, we're still, yeah, whatever, 50% over 50% but it's not a functioning 50% or say, like the people who claim to be evangelical in America, who claim to be Protestant, it's not like they don't do or live out their biblical world view in any kind of way. And so what we're trying to do is find the radical Catholics, the radical Presbyterians, the radical Baptists, you know, radical cares about it. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. We're playing around with the seven day events a little bit. We like them now all of a sudden. I mean, I mean, yeah, I mean, frankly, I mean, given the given where we are, like if we're talking about saving babies lives, I mean, we'll take the radical atheist. Right. Right. You know, that's what we've come. We'll take. We talked about it before they don't code thing like all the sudden Joe Rogan was on our team. You know, and if you got some kind of radical Mormon that wants to help, you know, stop Obergefell. Right. But that gets in the conversation like co-bullidrants and kind of how allies, co-bullidrants and all that stuff. You know, we got our next synodoc is actually dropping and the title of our next synodoc is can Roman Catholics build a great nation? And I'm so that's going to be dropping next to Spain and Italy. And Italy and Brazil. What time would you mark that off it? Because it kind of has like the Spanish modem was pretty big. Yeah, I'm just saying, but what time would you mark it off? It was like, okay, that's when they went beyond. Because at some point there was like, well, that's not you would have given all that to the Catholics. Are you? No, no, no, no, no, it was, it was, I mean, no, initially, I mean, it would just be the church for the church. Right. Yeah, I mean, the medieval church is my church. It's not, it's not, it wasn't a papus. At some point there's a drip, right? At some point it's a drip where it's like, okay, I mean, you have after it's after the Protestant reformation is in full. Full swing that you have the counter reformation and the council of Trent. And that's where they really double down there like no, no, no, no, no. If anybody says they're justified by faith alone, let them be a nathema. Yeah. You have to believe in the books of the apostate of relations day. Yes, that's what they should call it, the opposite of Galatians day. Yes, so no, before that, I mean, there's, I mean, I'm doing a, I'm studying right now, I've actually been reading biographies on Christopher Columbus. Christian hero. Yeah. Totally solid. Yes. Christian. And I'm preparing, I'm actually prepping a little shout out to called conference on the speaker for called conferences here and doing five Christian American heroes starting with Christopher Columbus. Who did it for? You know, because he discovered the Americans, you know, we're starting early. And then I'm going to do, do we get to record that for our club? I don't, I, you got to act in New San Andres College. I don't know. You tell them. I just show up and I talk to the speaker. You tell them. Oh, really? I don't know if that's how it works. I'm going to do, I'm going to do George Washington. Okay. I'm going to be doing. And I got to count all the abandoned four files. I'm going to do, I'm going to do a Stonewall Jackson. Yeah. Nice. And I'm going to do Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy. Yes. And I'm steady. I'm still on Teddy. And then I'm going to, and then I'm going to pull up. I got, I'm forgetting. That bull moves. Teddy. Really? John with a spin. Oh, John. John with a spin. I love Teddy belongs in there. But I like, I mean, I like him. But I don't know if he belongs. He's a, he was a, he's a feisty figure. He was a. F just as somebody out there and I only get his science of анd for some not. I like he was a great Christian man. Yeah. Yeah. Little bit of associate impress very. No, no, he was high. He gets a bad rap, but he. Socialist. Well, yeah, I, you know, I mean all the, all the lands he created and wild me. Really? Yeah, I think he's, he's in. He's in the, we found perfect. We'll make some mistakes. Just like all the rest of them. Okay. And by the, we And by the way, I liked Doug's post on Benzer's. Oh. This week. Do you guys read that? Absolutely. voted for Trump's impeachment and impeachment. And that really, I mean, that kind of basically for me took away my love for Ben. I like Ben and really kind of damaged my, I'm like, I'm like, what has been doing? But Doug just created a good context around that and he didn't like it either that he voted for his own. And so I think that I think that's something that I think that's something that is something that some more analysis might come out of what you're doing a Teddy because I don't like he was a big fan of the Union too and I'm I'm I'm not down with that. Yeah, right. But I know I think he was a he was a great Christian. Interesting. Okay. So, um, you know, his mom was a young man and and grandma, both from South Georgia. They were sending care packages down to Confederates during the war from New York. So, so he's a New York City boy. Yeah. Yeah. Roseville and his dad was was a committed unionist. But they, but they had all these relatives and in the south. And so you know, they were just, you know, this is like fast. They need to watch how they like just. Apparently they just knew like and and there's real division there. And they didn't fight. They didn't like they wouldn't like they hate each other. But it was just like, you know, he was busy supporting union troops and she was supporting Confederate troops and and the Roseville kids are just, you know, growing up in the middle of that. And uh, anyways. Interesting. Um, so, uh, let's get back to our our dark. I'm really I'm actually interested. Yeah. Many people spaying their friends. I'd say a little bit. Well, actually, I'll use this when we tee off the next clip. But here's our trailer for our next synodoc can Roman Catholics create great nations. Roll it. An emperor is standing barefoot in the snow. And he is waiting for a door door. Behind that door is the most powerful man in Europe. Not a king, not an emperor, a bishop. The pope has communicated him, cut him off from the sacraments. And told his subject they are no longer required to obey him. What guided the pilgrims to the new world? What faith when it took root, built the freest nation in the history of mankind? When Jesus ascended the world, the world was the most powerful man in the history of mankind. When Jesus ascended into heaven, he sent all authority and heaven at earth had been given to him. One month with a Bible that seen what the machine really was. Freerggs produces free men. We must obey God. Rather than man. Rather than man. Guys, I really love doing these. Well, I really love doing these. A month to astronaut. Come on. One smack yourself for that one. Yeah. You need to smack yourself. You done? That is hot. That is actually riffing off of one of our interviews in the new doc. Okay. So we got three special guests in the new doc that's going to drop. And it's going to drop next Tuesday. Next Tuesday. Okay. I mean, we just announced it. So I guess it's next Tuesday. It's going to happen. It's going to be next Tuesday. We declared it. Somebody tell one. We're speaking ex-Cathedra, by the way. So the, you have three guests in this new doc. Douglas Wilson, some pastor Douglas Wilson, Dr. James White. Yep. And Joshua Mitchell, who may be some of our audience audience. You put me on the hand, by the way. He wrote a fantastic article for the American Reformer. Just a month or so back. I'm actually speaking into writing about the current moment we're in. And what he has noticed is this sort of growing, particularly among conservatives. Among what we might call the based, the red pill, whatever. This movement of starting to say maybe we need to go back to Rome. And, and he wrote this article. I think it's called. Oh, man, with or the Protestant Reformation America. That's it. With or the Protestant Reformation in America. And, and it found fantastic article. Commended to you. Look it up. It's on the American Reformer. Search Joshua Mitchell. But he, he argues that there's something in the DNA of America itself that is thoroughly Protestant. And, and he, he says it's, you know, it's that. There's this fundamental DNA. Calvinistically Protestant. Calvinistic DNA that built America. And it's, and it has this kind of individualistic elements to it. But it's also really free. And, and it's all rooted in what he calls this the hebraic notion of covenant. And that the idea of covenant. It sets people free to be, to basically try to try things and fail. And get back up again and fail and get back up again and fail. Fearlessly. And he says that's what built America so fast. And, and so great. Was this fearlessness because of the covenant. And he, and he actually said in the interview, he says, I don't think. Roman Catholicism gets us to the moon. At least not as fast. Yeah. He says it's Protestantism. It's this, it's this, it's this governmental. DNA that says that God is sovereign. And his purposes are going forward such that as men and women and children just believe God. Free men and women and children. And, yes, strive in faith knowing that their sins are forgiven. That they're justified completely before God. And it sets them free to, to, to sail across oceans. And to, and to, you know, even go to the moon, explore space itself. And so that's what he's riffing off of there in a really, really awesome way. So I want to say like our, our doc that we're about to release next Tuesday. You got to be ready. Check it out. Save the day Tuesday. I think what we 12th at 10 a.m. We release in the morning. So yeah, yeah, 10 a.m. There's a certain heart we're coming from on this. Because we, we, we absolutely love fighting alongside our, our Roman Catholic brothers and sisters. And especially in the cultural or especially in abortion stuff like that. And especially where we're at. We're super, super grateful for their assistance. Well, and in sometimes they've even led the fight like abortion. I was going to say like we, what? I will say too. I think we owe him a great debt. Oh, this release right now is a relates to the humanities. Like we've forgotten a lot of the central biblical ethics that are there. Some of the biblical natural stuff that stay out of the weaving forgotten, all of that. And you have to go to them to get some of this. Because we don't think about guys anymore. Like William Perkins or G.'s Right? They're not a part of our monumentary Matthew Henry is used to be the commentary of the basic commentary where I was going. Nobody has that anymore reads it anymore. So DJ play clip number five from Wilson and this I think summarizes well the kind of the spirit of what we're trying to get out with this with this doc In the current clown world that we're in I don't have any problem going Marching together shoulder to shoulder with the Catholic integralist in protesting abortion for example Both of us would agree that in the order we envision a burger fell would not be the law we both agree that abortion on demand would be outlawed we can agree thus far but let's say we win those victories and Now we're the Protestant integralist and the Catholic integral integralist are looking at each other and say okay Now we've got some stuff to sort out Duff the Pope had jurisdiction in this realm. No So you know, we let's say we fight hard the Years and America repents and gets back to Jesus becomes a Christian nation again And then that's the question You know, how do how do how then shall we live? Well, I mean as the as the doc the the trailer for the doc that we just played a minute ago Demonstrates I mean part of what happened through the middle ages was there was this there was this growing increasing power of The papacy of the Roman Catholic Church including to the point where they were the Pope is essentially Had a power and authority over the civil magistrates and and and and and sometimes maybe there was an argument that the civil magistrate Needed church discipline there were places where that was happening Yeah, but then there were places where that was beginning to overstep its bounds and it was basically beginning to you know If you didn't have the Pope's blessing you didn't have legitimate authority and so you know, you know, I think it sort of begins maybe as early as 800 and Charlemagne is crowned by the Pope and maybe maybe it's just maybe just ceremony, you know, symbolic symbolic But by the state air, but it didn't stay there and by the time you've got You know the the Pope Calling for the crusades Do you want to go to walk? Yeah, I mean James White for example tells the story when Martin Luther went on his pilgrimage to Rome and he saw the Pope in Military Garb He's no longer just a pastor. I mean, he's a he's functionally a soldier And but that's basically about a high middle ages you have this top-down view of Society of of civilization you have you have the Pope is this representative of Christ on earth Who then is the one who dispenses the blessing of Christ on Your family you have to you have to you get your marriage done in the church or it's not a real marriage It's a sacrament you've got to get you know You know you have the blessing of the Pope to be a king to be a prince to be a magistrate It's all under the Pope and this is what's called integralism the idea that everything is integrated Under the church and ultimately under the Pope which is Incidentally why Americans were like really really nervous about electing JFK Right, I mean, I mean we look back now and I mean, you know I you think about a conservative Catholic now who wants to be in office and they are pro-life and they're you know They end you know Yeah, they believe in boys and girls and marriage between one man and one woman and you think you know That's it that's way better than anything else we can get right now But at the time of course the question was is Consistent Roman Catholicism believes that the Pope is over states Which means that a consistent faithful Catholic in America ought to believe that the Pope ought to be the head of America And so that's why there was such a Wrestling with that again, especially with JFK although it turned out that JFK you know had he was like no No, no, no, I'm not gonna do that because a lot of Catholics had decided you know Um in America, we're okay with this. You know, we're gonna just we're gonna sort of be functionally Protestant structurally on that question even though we still look to the Pope as the supreme head of our church Yeah, we're gonna be structurally Protestant in terms of the The state that's the politics One of the things that was really interesting going through the dot was I think your writing past Toby made it really clear Just how different a world view was at play between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism especially around the idea of marriage and sacraments Like these things really do have massive implications to how you understand and view the world right and and then what is happening in the process of these Covenant and relationships right so My marriage is holy because God has established that union is being a holy union Not because another man has come along and put his hand on it and blessed it. It's right radically different Because then even even the op even the operation is then how do we be blessings to the rest of the body and less Someone else comes along as a blesses it right just the function of it. So it's a separate government that operates in functions In which has massive implications for how you do things Yeah, right and pastor Wilson actually put this really well DJ if you can grab the number four Wilson on spiritual authorities um He grounded this rightly and the Protestant Reformation grounded this in the doctrine of solar scripture Sometimes people misunderstand this they call it you know Pastor Wilson likes to call it so low scripture. You know, it's like just me and my bible, but yeah Solicitor doesn't mean there are no other authorities. It just means that all True authority blows from Christ and only gods word only the bible is infallible and absolute there are other true authorities But scripture and pastor Wilson explains this really well all these spiritual authorities lack two characteristics that scripture has uh these spiritual authorities are not ultimate and they are not infallible scripture alone is ultimate and scripture alone is infallible no human authority is absolute In the in the Protestant understanding only scripture only the word of god spoken to us is absolute So ecclesiastical authority is true authority, but it's not absolute parental authority is true authority But it's not absolute and um and civic authority is true authority, but it's not absolute Which means that when tyranny begins to develop in any one of those three governments family government church government or civic government It is it becomes possible for a courageous man with an open bible to challenge the the authority That's right and and say thus say at the Lord you may not do this thing It's crazy how covenantal even our constitution that what we think about authority How that's all rooted in the Protestant right and that's again back to Joshua Mitchell's point It's all thoroughly covenantal yeah, and so and so rather than being sacramental It's covenantal god has established these covenants such that the civil magistrate is in covenant under god has his authority because directly from god not through the pope But from god with the people But if he does not keep up his end of the bargain if he breaks his word if he's acting tyrannically if he's disobeying god's law Then just like in a marriage where if a man is being tyrannical or a woman could sue for divorce And the people can sue for divorce the people can get a new magistrate And that's exactly what happened in the war for independence. I mean the declaration of independence I frequently call it it's a writ of divorce. Yeah You know the very first paragraph the preamble to the declaration people know But you ought to read the whole thing sometime. Yeah Most of the declaration of independence is actually a list of all the grievances against king George For breaking his colonial the colonial charters he had given these covenantal charters to the to the colonies And for neglecting his true authority in it. No, no, anybody broke his word. He broke us is his word And and so the the colonies sue for divorce and say Because he has failed to keep his part of the bargain s abdicated. He's broken covenant. Uh-huh. We By right We're we're claiming our right to form our own country. Yeah, we're free of that But that's all based on the idea of the covenant which is which is the Protestant resistance theory this goes back to um vindicii contract tyrannos and Lex Rex and Rutherford But these were things that got worked out in the Protestant Reformation that said because of that covenantal structure Uh, when uh when a when a when a magistrate is not obeying God's word Then the people can say you've broken covenant and they can they can form a new government, but that's based on solace scripture That's based on the fact that the law of God the the lex of God is over the Rex So then right now part of the the the thing we're seeing is that no you don't understand It's your covenanted idea and structure that you have in America that's created the mess And that's the thing that is throwing you guys off right now and why you have such All the transgender stuff all the separate groups Everything that all the splits of denomination you mean you're saying Protestantism. Yes, that's right That is you guys are the problem. Yeah, that's how you get this fallout right And so if you come back and you have one major authority which is by the way Protestants are starting us cream for that right we need a king Oh my god and maybe a pope ignorance of modern protest American Protestants. I don't think I believe I don't think it was meant by Christian prints when everybody thought But when everybody thought all of a sudden became like A pope basically is like no no that's not what that's not what the Christian Prince idea was at all Like a king but the way that they thought about it It changed the idea of what what it was and so But that's kind of the thing and so they're saying if we come back to Rome We'll have the power to institute the change because what we're wanting right now Is the idea somebody from the top who can Implement all the change and make everything right and Rome's like guess what we can do. Yeah, that's right No, I think that's why there's a there's a a driver Yes, attraction there is like maybe and so um actually Joshua Mitchell um Go to clip six. Oh, it's a clip for this. Yeah, actually I go to clip six um DJ or Joshua Mitchell where he explains Basically he in it what I thought was really really helpful was that um Mitchell actually says Yes, actually in a way uh the chaos that we are experiencing Um the the social justice movement the d.i. movement the LGBTQ the identity politics stuff. He says actually It is a it's our fault. It actually is a A heresy of Protestantism. Yeah, he says i'll grant you that. Pasta is responsible for transgendredism Is that what you say? Are you done? But he says but he says but Nevertheless Roman Catholicism can fix this a plate plate clip six The fundamental Reformation insight sorry there in Athanasius is that the only way you have solved this promise through this vertical relationship Man the the abject center and and Christ who takes away the sins of the world the one sufficient scapegoat who takes away the sins of the world What what identity politics does is it turns this on its side and instead of searching For a transcendent answer to the problem of man's irredeemable sin It looks for horizontal one so One group is the permanently stained group and then there's all these other innocent victims And so right now the prime transgressors we know is the white heterosexual Christian male And every group aligns itself With respect to that group like how far are they away from the white man since the category people of color Which is you think about it's really a disgusting category because it presumes that every person of color is in some sense aligned With every other person in their monolithics from the white man Yeah, so so notice what you're saying there's saying it's a it's uniquely Protestant category The sin is uniquely Protestant It's it is and and of course, you know, I like how you began this this clip where he says actually this is all goes all the back to Athanasius Mm-hmm, you know the medieval churches are church Right You know this it was not a papus church. No, it was absolutely not so so the the medieval fathers Augustine and some these are our fathers and And and it was it was the Roman it was the papists in the in the 16th century Um that left the Catholic Church the Protestants are the ones that's like we are we are the we're the true Catholics Right, but notice what he says it's this doctrine of Original sin this stain That has to be taken away that has to be removed. That's a that's a that's a very um Um, that's a very Protestant emphasis and that that the doctrine of justification is the solution to that That that by faith in Jesus Christ and the Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world that stain is judicially And permanently removed Mm-hmm all-time It's a uniquely Protestant heresy To still have the understanding of that stain, but then rather than looking to Christ it starts looking Um, he says horizontally We need a scapegoat It's the white guy is the heterosexuals you send against the black people you send against the Native Americans you send The wretch the sexual minorities or whatever and so what it's trying to do is trying to um create this atonement Mm-hmm horizontally. Yeah, which is why it works so well as a play Why we this is why the play can be run on us. It's it's because we are a Protestant nation We are a thoroughly Protestantist and Mitchell's point and one of the things that we we dry out in this documentary is and um Aristotelian Roman Catholicism Cannot solve that problem Why not because it does not have a doctrine of justification by faith alone That's right because it blends justification and sanctification together Because it doesn't distinguish those two things and so You you're never quite free of the stain Everyone's always stained a um Michael Knowles and Matt Walls were just here in town. Yeah last week um and Back to what Pastor Wilson said earlier So thankful for those men. Yeah in so many ways 1500 people came to University of Idaho We're gonna cancel from Walls she was more than 1500. Well, they turned away a thousand. I know. It's on sand. That was way more So you know, this is and they're here for turning point. Yeah god bless them Yeah, so so thankful for that. Yeah But my my daughter who is there Said dad. He said she said one of the saddest moments Was when a gentleman stood up and asked a question about security of salvation Knowing you're gonna be in heaven that you're gonna be in heaven and Matt Walls and Michael Knowles being good Catholics. I don't know said You just can't know. I hope so you can only hope for it. Yeah, we're hoping But you just can't know and then this guy you just quoted Bible verses from John and so forth saying you can know What to what no what are they are made? Well, this is not just That's full on our media. No, isn't that's Catholic. Yeah Catholic because because just because they don't have a doctrine of justification Justification is just a lifelong process. It's just blended together with sanctification What are we doing here? And so if you and so Catholics to be consistent and this is true Eastern Orthodoxy too Yeah, they don't have a doctrine of justification either. It's all blended together with sanctification Yeah, you're you're hoping you're struggling towards holiness Hoping for Muslims now. What is this whoa whoa? I just so for the record I didn't call a Muslims, but um it's the same thing type thing now. It's yeah, you're you're hoping to be accepted yes I one time I was talking to a girl that was in the process of converting to Eastern Orthodoxy And I read her from Romans 8 It says Nothing Separate us from the love of God so good in Christ Jesus. That's right not famine not nakedness not sword None of these things right I read that to her and she looked at me straight in the eyes and she said that sounds so presumptuous I said that's the Bible That's the word of God. Yeah, the word of God says you can have that confidence But the Roman Catholic and the Eastern Orthodox churches they've condemned that that kind of confidence to know that you are justified That nothing can separate you from the love of God. They've called that Heresy that that makes me so angry But that makes me so angry because if I were trusting in my own righteousness To attain some sort of holiness that would get me accepted by God. I would agree with them But when the when God himself wraps himself in flesh And dies for your sin and it is his blood that the father is looking at is being holy or not That whether or not I'm justified. They best the only thing that matters I'm not even in the conversation now. I'm just wrapped in Christ And if that doesn't matter then what do you say about the relationship between the father and the son? Oh What are you saying about the work that Christ has done? Right? You're speaking more about the work of Christ than you are about the individual It did Jesus try and he just like oh, I wish I could have that's what they say That's insane. That's what they say But that's the point though here is is that that theology flows out and creates a certain kind of people yes And those kinds of people oh build certain kinds of nations time. I'll be an insecure all the time you can't know Yeah, you can't know now Like my explanation because I would say on a whole host of things Michael Noles and Matt Walsh are doing awesome work Yes, and I would say you know what Um god bless them. They're far more Protestants than they realize that's right Because they talk with the confidence of Protestantism. That's right. They act with the confidence of Protestantism Go to clip three for Wilson DJ he explains the doctrine of justification really really helpfully justification is an inescapable concept Every society has a justified class and an unjustified class It's inescapable not whether but which and so consequently in a society where the gospel is preached where free grace is preached Where justification by faith alone is preached you're going to have a large number of uh born again individuals regenerated individuals people who worship god in spirit and in truth and what happens with free grace produces free men Which produces free societies people who are enslaved to their sins cannot build free institutions But the only way to strike off the shackles of sin is with free grace the gospel of grace which is appropriated by faith alone So in Roman Catholicism though It's it's not utterly free You you have to keep coming back and re-upping That grace that grace it's all tied back to the sacramental system They believe in grace but the grace flows through the church Through the pope Through the sacraments Through the apostolic succession and if you don't have it there then you don't have the grace But what happens is because they don't have justification and sanctification figured out It's it's all tangled together When you sin in certain ways you have fallen from grace. So then they don't have a gospel where it makes things better Is that right then not not clearly it's sort of like because I mean you hope you kind of hope you're You're struggling but you fall from grace and then you got to go back to the church you got to do the sacraments You got to do penance you got to go to the mass you don't victory over sin That's what that's what that's what pastor Doug is saying is that is that there's never a point in which you hear the words I have removed your sin as far as the east is from the west And it's gone forever. Yeah, that you are righteous in my sight that as far as I'm concerned What I see is the righteousness of my son Jesus Christ from here until eternity is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ At best Catholics get weekly absolving Yeah, they've got to keep going back and getting clean again getting clean and hope that they are clean on their deathbed They got a picture that they're in a state of grace when they die. Otherwise, you know It's it's time in purgatory. It's time suffering. They got to be purified and even then they don't know if they're actually ever for sure Gonna make it you know, it's funny Unfortunately that sits inside of some of the Protestant I do too. I was thinking our minionism Charismatic a bunch of Protestants have lost their way with this. Yeah When you said earlier did Christ die simply to try right And he's just like hoping hoping like I hope they'll push the button. How efficacious was his blood That's a bunch of Protestantism yep, which is not any better in this and I would I would argue that that's that's part of our problem I was gonna say that's just about to go there because of because of our minionism Because of this semi-pollegionism That Christ has died merely to make it possible Right for men to be saved if they will only choose if they will only make the decision way too much hope in man But the thing that people don't get is what that creates is a people who are sure They're not confident. They can't know for sure and secure and so they still have the shackles of sin on them What made America so great Was that it was built by people you know, an overwhelming majority of them For all their faults and for all their flaws New the doctrine of justification by faith alone that they were righteous in God's sight the shackles had been struck off And that they were free which makes you brave yeah, it makes you courageous It makes you bold. I mean, you know, it makes you sign the Declaration of Independence Yeah, well, yeah, it forms your laws like I don't think we think about just how much justification Well, how you view the sacraments matter of we were just thinking about the church government. Yeah, that matters Right, and then how you view the sacraments matter because it the sacraments are the thing that tells you What kind of world is this? Oh, this is the kind of world where a man lays down his life For his friends sacrificially based And it actually accomplishes something that's the distinction because the Catholics will say We believe in sacrifice right believe in the sacrifice of Christ right again, but again Right, but what you what you are not allowed to believe or you're not supposed to believe according to the Roman Catholic dogma Is that it actually secured the salvation once and for all of God's people forever man So they live a particular type of way, so I'm gonna interrupt real quick You need to read a couple ads and I got a question. Okay, I want I want to play the clip about the pilgrim Let's play that when you get back. Okay, so after we get back after marina's like pilgrims No, no Just gonna explain why with the living heritage homeschool curriculum You can take your classical Christian education further up and further in just like in Narnia Beyond the world of brute facts and mindless comprehension questions Into the land of beautiful stories and inspiring ideas that teach not only the mind but also the heart Our children are to stand for Christ in this woke hostile culture. They need more than lists And syllogisms which only create men without chests. We need to train and mature their loves at living heritage They do this through daily historically muted worship to start the homeschool day and family style learning centered around classic books Church history and solid reformed theology all in K through 12 open and go daily plans You two can have joyful consistent restful homeschool days rooted in truth cultivated in wonder and growth And wisdom find out more at www.living heritage.info living heritage.info and get 10% off using the code cross-politik That's living heritage.info Business owners Your company struggling to grow what if I told you that the right employee to grow your business by 510 or even 25% You'll be crazy not to take that deal right with red balloon dot works Revolutionary recruiter service. They make this a reality They dive deep into your company's culture needs crafting and tailored strategy to deliver top tier values aligned talent Forget sky high fees their premium service is just 4,500 plus 2000 per hire Don't let bad hires hold you back visit red balloon dot work and start profiting today So my question is pilgrims Pilgrims What you have with Aristotle and I think the middle ages is a civilization that attempts to To constrain To be ruled by prudence Balance proportion. There's some room for growth But for whatever reason God wasn't going to let that happen and be the last word in In Europe and in America, and so there's the age of discovery and you know as soon as this happens The world gets opened up and the Catholic Church can't handle it because it doesn't fit with this Fairly neat top-down understanding, but the providential view the the reformation view is that You know, we can endure a lot of chaos so the pilgrims stories extraordinary You know you get these couple hundred people getting on a boat a couple of boats there You know boats that have holes in them that the marine worms are eating No GPS But they have faith that God is going to be Watching over them this this kind of thing you only get when you have a providential understanding of God Which is to say We are going to go through really difficult times and we're going to be tested and many of us are going to die But this is still God's work So that's why I think America has grown so tremendously Is because it has this reformation view that yes, we're going to make mistakes But God's there at the end to guide us and you see this in the comparison between the United States and Europe and growth rates in Europe Which is just digitally Roman Catholic there they're very low. They don't take risks and American society because God's providence is watching over us all we're prepared to take much larger risks So it's a much more ambitious society It's a society that would go to space and go to the moon and colonize the stars But I don't think with air stuff you're going to do that frankly That's that's that's that's that's that's that's so the trailer when you have the the Luther monk yeah coming in astronaut that's what he's he's riffing off why is risk one of those things that Is not rooted because it's back to this doctrine of justification Mm-hmm. There is now no condemnation for those who in Christ Jesus. What's the risk nothing? Yeah, separators from the love of God Amazing not not nakedness not peril not a gigantic ocean Not getting eaten by sharks You know not not space travel like nothing can separators from the love of God I'm when you when you have that providential care that Christ died and now I'm secured in the hand of the Father You become a risk taking people you become a free people that say you know I'm I'm I fail. I might mess up. I might die on the way. Yeah, but I belong to Christ I'm going when I die It's all wind yeah, right to live as Christ to die as gain. I'm not worried But I mean just imagine here on earth Catholics cannot hear there's no condemnation Yeah, there's no final condemnation Well, I was gonna say that I think that the potency of proscentism in America has even formed Catholic sometimes in this way Oh, absolutely, you know, I mean where I think that's what you get the Matt Walsh's and you know I pre-cist sermon one time on Reformation day. It was Reformation Sunday I remember preaching and I like went like Fall on straight up the middle And I quoted from the Catholic the Roman Catholic Catechism Like the current one which is actually a little bit better than than the one that Luther was having to deal with so Yeah, yeah, but it's better but still doesn't like it. It's still condemns justification It still says you you can't be eternally secure Mm-hmm. I was quoting from that and I was showing from the Bible that this is contradictory This is this is not the free grace that's proclaimed by scripture by by by Paul And afterwards that turned out there was somebody's mom was there the congregation and she's a devout Roman Catholic And she came up to me and and she said I'm a Roman Catholic and I was braced as they oh no Here it comes and she said I believe what you said I've never heard Anything anything I've never heard that before what you said and I believe what you said Which is why I believe that there are many Roman Catholics. Yeah, I talked him to this that you know They listen to Christian radio that you know, whatever they read Protestant books They read their Bible and they believe and so I believe that many Roman Catholics are saved. Yeah But the official doctrine of the Catholic Church is against This free grace Okay, so we got the dot coming out Excuse me. Tuesday 12th Tuesday 12th Do you think that You'd you still consider a Catholic nation a christian nation it would be a christian nation right? Yeah, I mean So I mean there are some Protestants that disagree with this view but going back to the Protestant reformers. We believe that Trinitarian baptism is true Christian baptism. Yeah, I mean, so we believe that The The even Roman Catholics are part of the visible church Um now there are some that have really really strayed and uh and are Apostitizing yeah, when you know when they're celebrating the the murder of babies and LGBTQ stuff and all that kind of stuff and and full on commies or whatever It's like by you know by your fruit. You will know them and I don't I doesn't look like there's anything there. Yeah But but yes There are many Catholics that are are true Christians I believe their baptism is true baptism. I don't believe the masses what they say the masses. Yeah, but I believe that um the Lord sufferers with Jesus as it is yeah um but uh But um so I believe that a heavily Catholic nation Can have many of the blessings of Christianity. Yeah Um and the more that they look to scripture The better it will be Rather than looking to human tradition That's the temptation the Roman Catholicism has officially adopted so does Eastern orthodoxy um the um the authority of of church tradition and um in fact Roman Catholics have recently even formally basically approved a doctrine of development Which basically says that that that Christian doctrine is continuing to develop um But play the the faith given once for all time. That's not the situation uh not exactly um play play the um the um doctor white number four from doctor we need to make sure he makes a Cameo that's why um number four from white Just a few months ago Uh one of the first things Pope Leo the 14th did Was to elevate John Henry Cardinal Newman to the position of a doctor of the church If anybody knows who Newman was Newman And codified in essence was called the development hypothesis where Basically Rome no longer has to provide a Defense of her unique teaching she can just simply say well It was delivered as an acorn grows into the great tree. It was it was there implicitly But it grows over time and the number and that way the church can evolve and change and teach things that the apostles never dreamed of And that man Uh from the 19th century Was made a doctor of the Roman Catholic Church just a matter literally of months ago Um that tells you which direction Rome is heading now Yeah, interesting. Where's the heading? Yeah, well, it's wherever the you know I feel like I'm a man today, but tomorrow Uh why not stop it Why not All right It's not just that I think catching our disease. I don't know Yeah, well he played the clip number one uh Catholics and Gays You have a Jesuit priest father Martin Who is one of the leading proponents of the LG LGBTQ movement in the world And Francis sent him numerous positive kind notes Uh encouraging him in his work And already Leo has met with him and there's they're smiling and shaking hands The irony is the only people that Rome will discipline today And defrock and kick out of the church are conservatives People who want the Latin mass of people who are traditional in their in their perspectives You can be as wild-eyed as you want Uh on everything else like Joe Biden and Rome will not take action against you Yeah, so you know just I think this is Well, and to be fair in the evangelical church sure that's sure, but I think but but I think People that are listening to us and watching us know that They know that there's a cancer and Protestantism and we're not denying Where we know that there is there is I'm just gonna talk about that there's cancer and Protestantism But we have a way of hand. Yeah, right, but that's the thing back to Wilson's point We've got scripture. We got the word of God right and a man with the Bible Yes, and stand like Athanasius Against the world Contra Munda and say thus says the Lord right a man as a man a woman as a woman a baby as a baby But according to this this development theory that that Newman said is you know Yeah, you couldn't see that back then, but it was developing We didn't know that we needed a pope Because it's insane to think about the pope in the Bible But we came to realize that we needed a pope We didn't know that we needed the apocrypha right away, but we found out in the 16th century We needed the apocrypha and we also didn't know anything about the ex-Cathedra Papal and fallibility, but in the 1800s we realized we needed that And we've still made adjustment since then and exactly so but it's like There's not any really fundamental reason why the Catholic church can't eventually be affirming gays Trannies and you know, whatever else. Yeah And have Protestants done that? Yes But they've done it in the face of God's word against yeah against God's word Roman Catholics will do in consistent and the and the in the theology of what the danger is that yeah That's so wedded together Because tradition and the authority of the pope is so tied now to the authority of the church that it's um That the poisons indeed, but this goes best to your point is like Catholics understanding of justification That's right. I think that is like sanctification and put but even then as like it's like It grows bigger than the I mean when I was going through the script and we recorded this the idea is bigger than Catholicism and for me in this Because what it's saying is look We all see the sin that's encroaching in our culture We all see the battle that we have to fight the next generation has to fight We all see the degradation of generations of unfaithfulness, but that's exactly what it is It is unfaithfulness and repentance does not look like going to Rome It looks like you take a responsibility for the sin and the place where you're actually at and say Lord We have not we've neglected to be like our forefathers Right and I just want to return to a point I made earlier, but it's like The church has been in this place before yes You know the medieval church was a mess. I mean there were pups with concubines and you know like it was it was it was Rupped it was you know and it was uncripped on all sides. I mean there was Was messed up too there were a bunch of adabaptists off you know having a bunch of wives in their harem It's been crazy in this room before And but what what changed what changed the world Was a man with a Bible Was a man who believed the gospel all the way down to his bones And said that's good. I have been set free. Yep. That's right. Um and it was that gospel Justification by faith alone Um that transformed the Western world. Yes, right that build free nations that build the greatest nations that we've ever seen And and so that's the hope now. Yes, that hasn't changed the hope has not changed. I mean what we have We have what they had What what caused Athanasius standing against the world what caused Luther to stand up because what caused nox to stand up You know John nox but also this nox What caused George Washington what caused St. Louis Jackson what caused God's people to stand up strong it was for Columbus. Yeah, it was it was this knowledge that I belong to Christ My sins have been cast away. I am free and I am held by the providence of God this covenantal love of God Which means that I can try I can risk I can take chance. I can fail. I can get back up again fall down get back up again and God has got me That's what builds great nations next Tuesday Go on trailer Roman Catholicism build great. Can we play the trailer? Roll that beautiful trailer DJ. Let's know that train. That's how we're gonna in this An emperor is standing barefoot in snow And he is waiting for a door to Got a AI added behind that door is the most powerful man in Europe Not a king not an emperor Abyssal the pope has excommunicated him cut him off from the sacraments Oh And told his subject they are no longer required to obey him What guided the pilgrims to the new world what faith when it took root built the freest nation in the history of mankind When Jesus ascended into heaven he sent all authority and heaven at earth had been given to him One month with a Bible that's seen with the machine really was free grace Nothing since So don't free societies we must obey God rather than man rather than man Oh boy So if your single get married if you married have you some kids you have kids go back toism until next week Love God with all your hearts so mine is strength. Love your neighbor as yourself Go fight laugh and feast this next Tuesday the twelfth cross politics