Latest / The Trauma Therapist / Episode 736: Breakdown, Break Open And Breakthrough with Sara Miley

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Episode 736: Breakdown, Break Open And Breakthrough with Sara Miley · The Trauma Therapist

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Or welcome back to the Trauma Therapist Podcast. My name is Gaming Person.
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My mission is to help trauma therapist be their incredible cells, to be human,
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to be real, not just a clinician. I'm a big believer in
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who we are is more important than what we know, and this requires cultivating
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authenticity, genuineness, and vulnerability, and that requires intention. Can learn more
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about my courses and workshops by going to the Trauma Therapist project dot com.
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That's the Trauma Therapist Project dot com. Let's get started. So five four,
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three, two and one, our folks, welcome back to the podcast.
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I am very excited to have as my guest today, Sarah Miley.
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Sarah welcome. Thank you so much for having me. So excited to be
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here. Sarah is an experience crisis advocate and ans informed advanced sort of by
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trauma recovery coach with her own all virtual private practice called Full Circle well Spring
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LLC. Through her own learn and lived experiences, She's passionate about helping people
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find the roots of their suffering. By making sense of their trauma, they
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can make meaning out of their healing. Focus is on survivors of developmental child
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to trauma attachment wounds, emotional abuse and neglect, well sibling syndrome, among
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others. She's continuing her education in ifsmatic embodiment, group coaching, and maternal
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fetal trauma. Sarah is a host of Trauma Survivorhood podcast, and we'll have
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that linked appear at the show notes page at the Trauma podcast dot com.
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Sarah, welcome. Thank you so much. It's so great to be here.
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I really appreciate it. Your audience will soon learn why. This is
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a really big, full circle moment for me. So yeah, thanks for
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having me. Awesome, awesome. So, before we get going, shareworth
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the listeners where you're from originally and where you are currently. Yeah. So
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I'm in the New England area, about thirty minutes outside of Boston. That's
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where I'm from. A handful of times. I was back and forth from
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both coasts actually a couple of times, but then back here now in New
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England for about six years. So yeah, Boston's kind of home and home
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and home. Okay, okay, all right, Well let's let's dive in.
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How did this start for you? How did all this start? Yeah,
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such a great question. So I guess maybe starting at the end is
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a great way to start. So a couple of months ago, I turned
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forty. So that's where I'm at. You know, throughout my life,
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I actually struggled with many different types of trauma actually, and I just see
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such a link in the word familiarity. So like when thinking about my story,
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I recognize how much trauma survivors go toward the familiar. Right. So,
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you know, I was born into a family with unhealed generational trauma,
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you know, emotional immaturity, dysfunction, a family with men's illness, a
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lot of stress and chaos in my body from a very very young age,
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right, So you know, it's almost less about my specific trauma, but
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more about what I suffered from that, right, And my trauma role really
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left me with, you know, dissociation, extreme people pleasing. I was
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the fixer, fawning is my is my main go to response, hyper vigilance,
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you know, ultra independence, disordered eating, just all kinds of things
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that you know, all just extreme compliance really to kind of keep the peace.
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And you know, you see that kind of threaded throughout my life until
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really recently, that's really what I've had to heal from is less about the
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trauma and processing through that, but actually the effects that it had on me.
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You know, I also grew up in a religious environment, so there
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was some confusion there with the incongruencies and hypocrisy that I witnessed. You know,
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by my early mid teens, I was kind of open to some vulnerability
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from some older, sometimes married men. Even in our church setting. There
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was one man in particular who actually perpetrated on young girls in the youth group.
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But I wasn't the one that was that was caught, and so he
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was kind of removed quietly actually, and you know, being quiet and being
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small and being invisible, that's that was kind of already my thing. So
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I just stayed quiet and small. I didn't say anything. No one really
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knew exactly what happened, except for his victims. And you know, I
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even joined like a prayer circle to like pray for his healing and pray for
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his sins, you know that that kind of thing. So late teens,
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I left on my own and moved out to New York City, which also
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tracks right, chaos and and invisibility in New York, right, um felt
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very familiar met a man who felt very familiar. Would find out later those
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caretaking Roles right, and how far down the line he is in narcissism just
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makes a lot of sense now. And I did get pregnant about a year
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after leaving my family's home. Thankfully I did leave that relationship with him.
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He did end up to be um, you know, not a great guy
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and abusive husband down the road to other people. So very thankful UM for
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that. Actually, my my fear of intimacy and fear of fear of commitment
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actually played really well for me there. And he did abandon me with his
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son. My son's grown now, he's a grown man, and uh yeah,
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I raised him on my own. So there he was in New York
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just working and taking care of this little kid. And i'd how old were
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you at that time? So I was nineteen twenty twenty one, twenty two
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till about twenty four. I lived in New York our twenty three because I
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came back here when my son was four. Um. Yeah, And you
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know, I had some great jobs. One of them was um my my
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boss of all bosses. He was my direct boss. And there was sexual
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harassment there inappropriate touching, UM, propositioning, gift giving, UM and you
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know, staying small and quiet I just kind of left and said, you
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know, go go to get a new job. You know, thanks so
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much nobody. So yeah, up until this point, had you scenotherapist,
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had you thought about, Okay, something's going on? Okay, that came
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much. That came quite a bit later. I wish I wish I had
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that. That would have been um, that would have been really amazing.
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Actually, what ended up happening after I left that that job where I was
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being harassed. It wasn't too long after that my son and I came back
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to New England. I was in a lot of debt. Took me many
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years to kind of get things back in order, right, but I did
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eventually. Actually, when things were going really well, you know, that's
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kind of scary for trauma survivors, when things are going so well, right,
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she was always about to drop. Um, you know, I'd gotten
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out of debt, I had actually bought a house, I was a work
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at home mom. My son was just involved in all kinds of things.
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And then right then, in the middle of his childhood, the father that
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he had never met kind of just stormed into our lives, demanding affections,
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demanding all kinds of things. That was not going to work for my son
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psychologically, and that started a four year legal battle, and oh, guy,
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I could tell you the corruption in the legal system, the what it
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can be put in great detail. I will spare you the detail. But
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going through that legal trauma, trying to kind of keep things afloat for my
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son, who was also kind of struggling, you know, psychologically, he
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had a lot of somatic responses to the trauma he was going through with his
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father. So dealing with that and trying to keep it afloat was exhausting.
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As a solo mom, I started to, you know, have some fiber
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miles of type symptoms. You know, it was just very difficult. End
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of the story ended up great, right because the corrupt judge was actually supplanted
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about three and a half years in, and the new judge that came came
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in was kind of fixed everything, but not before I went back into a
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lot of debt, not before I lost my house. But it was worth
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it battling for that justice for my son. And also during this time in
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my late twenties early thirties, I decided to try to go back to church.
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That just seemed like a familiar path to kind of go. And you
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know, even though it didn't end so great, those years that we were
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there, that support system that actually finally felt like a real family that I
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had never had before. I don't know that I could have made it through
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the legal trauma years without that. You know. I met some very few
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friends left from there, but the ones that I do are very very close.
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And then a handful of years ago, some more spiritual abuse happened where
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some people in power they kind of decimated almost most of the congregation actually,
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so we call that like a church split, and for me, that was
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like a church family split. And of course when it reigns, of course,
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so while all that was going on, some melodrama and my family of
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origins, some manipulative family members kind of wrote me back in right to the
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thing that's familiar, That caretaking role fell for It burned up in my face.
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So I'm you know, I'm kind of dealing with the church family falling
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apart. My son is now older and he's starting to struggle with his mental
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health from what he went through. He's a teen boy. I'm a solo
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mom raising a teenage son. All these things kind of fallen apart together.
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So seven years ago, is this all was crumbling around me? I thought,
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well, before I snapped, now let's try therapy. So enter my
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therapist, who I still see weekly. And the reason I went there,
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to be honest, was my son was going to be an adult in a
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couple of years and I wasn't even thirty five. And I thought my my
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whole life ahead of me, and I realized I have no idea who I
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am, none outside of being a mother, a daughter, or a sister,
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a caregiver to everyone else, no clue. I didn't know what I
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wanted. I didn't know what I needed. And I basically sat in my
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therapist office and kind of asked him to help me figure out who I was,
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which, of course unleashed all of these years of just unraveling the severe
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self abandonment. You know, I couldn't hear my body unless it was screaming
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in pain, which I often was. I hadn't cried in a decade.
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I had no literacy for my emotions. You know. The running joke was,
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you know, Sarah's dead inside, She's a robot, She's cold.
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You know, I was just even keel, You know, every stoic all
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the time. You know, but it was because I was detached and so
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disjointed from my authenticity, my autonomy and lo and beholds. I said,
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Okay, so I've got to figure this out. And I've been a fixer
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to everyone my whole life. So when I started therapy seven years ago,
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I said, I'm going to start for the first time fixing myself. And
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I still can't even use the word selfish or self center. That's very triggering
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for me because I've been around a lot of narcissism and selfishness. So my
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therapist and I came up with the word self focus. That feels better to
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me. That's self focus into self care. And that's what I've done,
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a really deep head dive, very deep into self care, you know,
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taking care of my body. I got this thing called the social life that
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I had no idea what that was about. I read all the books,
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I've listened to thousands of hours of podcasts. All the modalities have all had
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their places. I've done if as, somatic experiencing, EMDR, PSYCHEDE,
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synotherapy, just UH trauma recovery coaching, just great tools that it helped me
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figure out what this is who I'm a body that I'm a person that I
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exist, that I'm here, so I have boundaries. I can do things
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for myself, uh, you know without guilt. Um, I did have
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to go no contact in low contact with some of my family members. That
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allowed freedom to really start, you know, um, figuring out who I
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was. And you know, now there's a practice of you know, meditation
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and yoga for the last six seven years. UM, I've kind of designed
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this like psycho spiritual operating system, right that kind of keeps me grounded and
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centered. And you know, my therapist has helped me unravel, break down,
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break open, breakthrough and kind of kind of rebuild. And that's that's
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that's that's where I've been. Yeah, jeesus, it's a lot. It's
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a lot. I want to, first of all, I want to write
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down what you just said here break down, break open, breakthrough, and
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break through. I want to, um, first, sincerely, thank you
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for sharing all that. I mean, that's a lot. It's a freaking
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lot. When you finally went to the therapist, you said it was because
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of you're about to have the sun who was soon to be an adult.
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So it sounds like you're lucky you found someone who was able to recognize trauma,
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Yes, very much, so did How did that? Did you recognize
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trauma? When when that started to come out? What was that like for
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you? You know, every bit of it along the way made a lot
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of sense. Um one of the first books, and I know you'll your
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last book recommendations down the line, but um, stop caretaking the borderline and
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narcissist and move on with your life. I read that book and I was
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like, oh, I do have a diagnosis. I am textbook caretaker.
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I didn't know. I thought I have no mental illness, right, and
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I thought everyone else does except for me. But I actually textbook caretaker.
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So self abandoned and that made so much sense. To not have hunger cues,
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to not be able to recognize what you need, to not really know
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what you wanted in your day to day life, just so much service to
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other people. And of course the you know, the religious aspect of this
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kicks into because service is so you know, that servant's heart is so praised
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and valued in the church community that it leaves you as a caretaker. It
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leaves you open, very vulnerable to be taken advantage of. Because I couldn't
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say no. And when I started to realize how horrible it feels to focus
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on myself at all. Oh that made a lot of sense. Oh,
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I see this, I see these these trauma roles that I've taken on to
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try to fix everybody else and to create a safe space for myself. So
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yeah, it's it was. It was hard to take a look at you.
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And now I seek it, you know. Now I'm hungry for it
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because it makes so much sense. And I've been looking at psychology since I
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was younger because we had mental illness in the family. There was like psychology
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books around, and I've always found neuroscience and human behavior really really exciting.
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But to see it for yourself, it's it's hard, right, because like
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you're in it right, right. You just think you're doing the right thing
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to help everyone else, but it's really at the detriment of yourself. You
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know. Let's just pause here for second to thank our sponsors. All right,
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we are back. How did things unfold such that you became interested in
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trauma in you know, creating your own business and so forth, and ultimately
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having your podcast too. Yeah, yeah, so this is where it gets
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good, right, because this is my full circle moment here with Guy McPherson
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on the Trauma Therapist podcast. So in all this seeking, right, I'm
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just I'm hungry. I need therapy, I need neuroscience, I need I
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need to know modalities. Literally thousands and thousands of hours of podcasts, and
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You've been one of one of my favorite ones because I love that you bring
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people here. They've always been through their own stuff and they're always on the
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other side of it now making an impact in some kind of psychotherapy or spiritual
15:30
world, some kind of practitioner, right, And I loved listening to that,
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and I thought, Wow, you know, one of these days,
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I'd love to be in that place where I can really help people. And
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I was advocating. I do advocacy work for a YWCA community with which is
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domestic violence and sexual assault victims. I love crisis work. I always wanted
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to be a nine one one operator. I just I love that in the
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moment, that helping that person right there when they're, you know, at
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their worst, right. And so I was kind of weaning my way into
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this as I'm figuring my my stuff out and for decades people have been thrown
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the word life coach at me. Oh, my friend Sarah she'd be a
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great life coach. Strangers that you know, of course, I'm caretaking a
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stranger right in the middle of the street, and they're like, are you
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a life coach? You'd be a great life coach. Life coach. Nothing
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stuck, and I'm glad it didn't, because to actually help people from a
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place of you know, self energy and not self abandonment, I needed to
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do a lot of work, so I would have just worked out as a
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life coach, right. But January of twenty twenty, I think it was
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episode four seventeen, you had on Jennifer Kindera. She was from the International
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Association of Trauma Recovery Coaches founded by Bobby Parrish. And I was listening.
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I was doing dishes. I always listened on double time, and you introduced
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her as he certified trauma recovery coach, and I said, that's it,
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that's the thing. It was like a warmth in my soul. I stopped
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doing the dishes. I was like, that's it, and this is it,
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this is my life. And now, of course I'd listened to the
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episode to find out what the heck trauma recovery coach was, right, but
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I was like that that's going to be it. And then two months later,
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right the pandemic hit, and I think everyone goes kind of figuring themselves
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out a lot of changes in the pandemic. And you know, for me,
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the pandemic just asked me what impact are you going to make? What
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are you going to do with your changes with your healing? And I went
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to our site and found out how to become a certified torm or recovery coach.
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She was actually one of my supervisors in my initial sert. I've then
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gone on to do the advanced certification. I've done classes with Linda Tye and
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with the IFS Institute now as well. But yeah, I immediately found Jennifer
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in the association. I was like, I'm here because of remember you were
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on Guys podcast and she's like, oh, that's great. So yeah,
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she was a supervisor in my initial certification. Wow, I thank you for
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bringing this platform to let people know even what of modalities and spiritual practices are
17:49
available to themselves. But in turn you kind of change my whole professional life
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too, so oh wow, wow, Well you're certainly welcome. I mean,
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I'm honored. It's really made me feel good. But you're you're you
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are amazing. I mean, you're I mean, what you've gone through is
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so crazy, I mean so awful, you know, but you're you're uh.
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The way you articulated your journey and how you've used that to in turn
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help others, um is so inspiring. I mean, it's what this podcast
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is about. You. Thanks so much. I really appreciate that, you
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know. It's probably one of the things that I'm most proud of now is
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using that healing so thinking about the difference of like caretaking and it doesn't really
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matter that I got there because of the developmental trauma. Like these were skills
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I learned to keep myself safe, which is horrible, right, But they
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were still skills, you know, being able to sense people, to know
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how to resource people, right, to advocate hate for people, to stand
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up for injustice, those kinds of things, reading auras right, being holding
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space for people. Those were still skills that I've honed. Now though,
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I get to turn that around and working as a coach, I'm now working
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for people that are first asking for help, right, Because you know,
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when you're in a caretaker role, you're not always asked, You're just assumed
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to be the rescuer. You're the fixer, and sometimes it's always at the
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detriment of yourself, but sometimes it's at the detriment of the person you're helping.
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Sometimes it turns into enabling mine certainly did for certain people. But now
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it's like, not only are they asking, but they're willing to put in
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the effort to do their work also, which is really beautiful because I'm not
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doing any heavy lifting. In fact, if you're not in this, I
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can't coach you, I can't guide you, I can't resource you if you're
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not doing the work for yourself. So I still get to be that person,
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but now with you boundaries and not self abandoning, doing it from a
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place of good. I'm good at this, and I know how to do
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it, and I I want to do it, and you you want me
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to help you do it, So totally different, even though they're very similar
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skills. You know. Let me just remind everyone I'm speaking with Sarah Miley.
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Your website is full Circle wellspring dot com. We'll have that length up
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here at the show notes page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. You,
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Sarah, you sound how long were you in therapy? How long when
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did you first start therapy? How many years ago? Almost seven years now,
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and I still see one particular practitioner, my main therapist literally saw him
20:40
two hours ago for our weekly session. Okay, then the reason why I
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ask and not to say, oh, to be judgmental and the sense that,
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oh, you've had X amount of years. Of course you're yield,
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but you sound as though you've worked through a lot of what you've gone through
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a lot, a lot, you know. I'd say it's a mix of
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doing so much work on my own, having that relationship with my therapist on
21:08
a regular basis, with multiple other practitioners as well. I've done a lot
21:12
of body work, energy work, trying to move things through. I'm actually
21:18
in the middle of doing semantic experiencing, so I'm still working in the semantic
21:22
piece. But then I did a lot of work on my own, you
21:26
know, a daily mindfulness practice, you know, regularly trying to get into
21:30
my own body through yoga, you know, creating safe people around me,
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going no contact and low contact with family members is difficult, and sometimes it's
21:41
really the answer to kind of free you from some of those those tethers that
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you had, you know, I think of the end Tethered Soul Michael Singer's
21:48
book, right, like tethers are going to trigger you constantly because you're still
21:53
connected. So a lot of that was just making hard daily choices to get
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up and do the work and be the work. Breathe it, eat its,
22:00
sleep it. You know, when did you get to the point where
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you were like, you know what, I want to do this. I
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want to help other people talk to us about that. Yeah, you know,
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I love working with people. I love talking even with strangers, even
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with you know, just coming in contact with people who are interested in healing,
22:26
are interested in actually moving forward, you know, moving through stuff,
22:30
moving through grief. So I think it's always been there because some of the
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jobs I've done have been very helper jobs, administrative jobs, things like that
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nanny and jobs taking care of other people's children, still in that caretaking kind
22:42
of role, but in very fulfilling ways. Right, And even though there
22:48
was that draw, but it never hooked me, thankfully, was the life
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coach thing that still made sense to my personality. And it wasn't until I
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heard your words saying jen Is as a certified trauma recovery coach did it stick
23:00
where I'm now able to help people move forward, but because of what they've
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been through, maybe they have more We call them like trauma blocks, because
23:08
a life coach with someone who's a trauma survivor can't always be successful if they
23:12
don't know what those trauma blocks are. You know, why can't you lose
23:17
weight? Well, you know there's a disordered eating problem that's not being addressed,
23:19
right, So that combination of that cheerleader support. You know, trauma
23:26
coaching is very collaborative. It's totally client led. We you know, we
23:30
don't set treatment plans like a therapist might. We're setting collaborative recovery goals.
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So I think that aspect has always been there, that hunger and desire,
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but it needed to be in a not self abandoning kind of way, you
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know, And that's what I've been able to find the last few years now
23:45
working in this field. So I'm very grateful for that. You emanate a
23:52
certain kind of not just lived experience, but an ability to call upon that
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experience to help others. You know, you have this inspiring presence about yourself.
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I mean, you're so open about what you've gone through in your experience,
24:12
and for me, I'm very much drawn to my God, you have
24:18
this experience, you're you're you're of course you're able to help me with life
24:23
and move through trauma blocks and so forth. I um, yeah, I
24:30
mean you're you're you're pretty awesome. Wow. Yeah, thank you. So
24:36
you really are God. So who comes to you? Who's your like your
24:41
ideal client? Yeah? So I generally, for some reason, tend to
24:45
see women. Um, I'm open to men as well, but there's maybe
24:49
just a camaraderie there, I'm not sure, or people who identify as women.
24:53
Um. Usually it's childhood trauma. I find a lot of attachment wounds
25:00
and developmental childhood trauma where there was something in the family either they were a
25:03
scapegoat or they were neglected. You know, they were you know we say
25:08
well child syndrome, right, which is like the invisible glass child, the
25:12
one where if there was someone who had a mental or a physical illness,
25:15
the other siblings were like, well they're okay enough, So they become like
25:19
ultra independent. They find it hard to find intimacy in relationships. That kind
25:25
of thing. Mainly it's emotional and relational traumas because they're trying to now work
25:29
through why am I not connected to my emotions? And why am I struggling
25:33
in relationships? And so we kind of backtrack and being an informed coach as
25:37
well. IFS is my favorite type of modality for myself and to guide my
25:44
clients to healing because you're really getting to that inner child work and finding those
25:48
parts that were so wounded that haven't been heard in all these years. And
25:52
do you do your work? Everything I think is as all virtual as you
25:57
said. Yeah, yeah, all on zoom. Yeah, So right now,
26:02
I do one to one sessions and I also do IFS focus sessions for
26:04
people who are just looking to dive deep into IFS. I was doing group
26:10
coaching for a little while and then I kind of ran out of space for
26:11
that. So if it really, you know, was a need and I
26:15
felt it was a need, I would I would move back into that.
26:18
And then as years go on, I mean, the goal is to maybe
26:21
even do some some psychoed kind of classes. I'm so interested in maternal fetal
26:26
trauma and yeah there's something there. I haven't put a finger on what that's
26:32
going to look like yet, but that's coming down the line. So I'd
26:33
say anyone who's maybe interested in those things down the line could sign up for
26:37
the newsletter because that's where I'll make those announcements. So but right now it's
26:40
one to one coaching. Okay, and tell us about your podcast. What's
26:44
what's it called? Yeah, Trauma Survivorhood. So this little guy started as
26:48
just a way for me to kind of give back to the community. The
26:52
first seventy eight episodes last year, I did three of them a week Monday,
26:56
Wednesdays and Wow solo casts, short little seven to twelve minutes Mondays.
27:00
I did like a guided meditation. Wednesdays, I focus on internal resources,
27:06
you know, self, compassion, understanding what happened to your brain during trauma.
27:10
Friday was external resources, modalities, book recommendations, things like that.
27:14
And when I started it, I just started getting all these emails from people
27:17
who wanted to be interviewed, and I was like, well, this is
27:19
spam, right, I'm not an interview style. And I got so many
27:22
of them that when I finished this first season after twenty six weeks, I
27:26
did a letter of the alphabet. I said, Okay, I can record
27:30
some let's do some bonus content and let's just see how it works. So
27:33
in the fall, I released eight episodes of bonus content of interview Style,
27:37
which was very popular, and still people were emailing me asking me to be
27:41
interviewed, so I switched up y January. We started with season two as
27:45
an all interview podcast. Now the goal is to diminish stigmas and to just
27:52
bring inspiring stories of hope, and we really focus My goal is still really
27:56
resources. Just you know, podcasts are free, so it's just free resources,
28:00
not only what my guests are bringing, right, Like maybe they've written
28:04
a book. Now we have this as a resource of your book, but
28:07
what were your resources that helped you get to where you got as well?
28:11
So that everyone's kind of learning from each other's experience, so that it's been
28:15
great. It's a lot of work, but it's fun. Well, awesome,
28:18
awesome. We'll have that linked up here at the show notes page.
28:21
At the Trauma there is podcast dot com. So all right, well you
28:25
have your full circle well spring, you have your podcast. Yes, what
28:32
else is coming up for you that you want to talk about that we can
28:34
mention? Yeah, So, um, the podcast is always on and that's
28:40
going to keep going as long as I have people to interview and h Yeah,
28:44
I'm also on Facebook at Full Circle well Spring. They can also watch
28:48
the interviews and all of the archives of season one as well on the Youth
28:52
which is at Full Circle well Spring and they're all linked up in there.
28:56
Yeah, and people can email me if they'd either like to be on the
28:59
podcast or if they've questions about, you know, working with me, or
29:02
you know, if people are looking for group therapy. I'm excited about that.
29:04
Um. Yeah. And we do have a certification available now to work
29:08
with adolescents and teens, and I know that is such an underserved population and
29:15
so in the next year or so, that's a that's a goal to be
29:18
certified, to be able to work with people. Right now, it's it's
29:21
eighteen and plus is my certification. But I'd love to be able to work
29:25
with teams as well, because most of what you're seeing is going to be
29:27
trauma based stuff. With teams, you know, they go through a lot,
29:33
They've been through the pandemics as growing teams, Like I think everybody's got
29:37
that collective trauma going on now. So awesome, awesome or Sarah, awesome.
29:41
So glad you reached out and it's been been a pleasure to have you
29:47
on here. I love to have you back at a later date. Oh,
29:51
I had a book recommendation I wanted to get that I did, yes,
29:53
and you know what, and I wrote it down so that I would
29:56
say, I'm not going to say it because I don't know how to say
29:59
her name, but I will spell it okay, so the you know,
30:02
I mean, we can talk about ones that are helpful for everyone. Body
30:04
keeps the score. Anything that Edith Eager does, I mean, no bad
30:07
parts if you want to learn basics of ifs, but ones that were personally
30:11
impactful to me. The authors is Margali's a gel stat I should have looked
30:18
it up. It's f j E L sta D And that's called stop caretaking
30:22
the borderline or narcissist. How to end the drama and get on with your
30:26
life and then you know, if you're in a space as a as a
30:30
daughter. A book that I'm recommending now to women who have difficult relationships with
30:34
their mom is Kelly McDaniel's book Mother Hunger, and it's a little bit of
30:38
a difficult one. Maybe i'd recommend people to see with their clinicians if that's
30:42
a good read for them, because it's a little tough but it's a doozy.
30:45
It's a good one, Okay, Awesome, awesome, look awesome?
30:49
How can you want to hear? We'll talk soon to