Latest / Tales From Aztlantis / Episode 73: Book Suggestions & Listener Questions!

Transcript

Episode 73: Book Suggestions & Listener Questions! · Tales From Aztlantis

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_00: You must excuse me.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: Simply easy and number.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you've learned a lesson.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: A lesson in honesty.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_00: Honesty to yourself and honesty to others.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_00: That lesson must end you in a good step on your mind.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think we've all learned a good lesson.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: I've always heard that honesty is the best policy.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now I'm catching on to why that's so, no, why that's so and why that's so good.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_02: Greetings, dear listeners, and welcome to Tales from Ostlantes, where we take you on a journey through Chicano, Mexicano, and Mesoamerican history and archaeology, and we help combat the spread of disinformation about these very topics.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: We are your hosts, Curly Tlapoyawa.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: And Rupin Ariano Tlacatecat.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_02: What is going on, Dr.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: Tlakatecat?
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: How are you?
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: We are in the deep, deep dead set of winter over here in Dallas right now.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Winter has come for those that watch Game of Thrones.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Let's try it's here.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's here.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: And it's about to get worse.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it is.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_02: We had to call off field work until Tuesday because our project area is currently under snow, and it was 16 degrees when I went out to check the project area.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I took some crew members with me.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, they're all new, they're all like fresh-faced, eager, young archaeologists.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: They're not all bitter and broken down like me.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: Eager beavers.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we go out there and and even they, they were like, Yeah, no, let's let's please not do this.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: You should have told them this is a test, and you've all failed.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, guys, sorry.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm leaving you out here.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Go get your anthropology degree first.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I saw that.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_02: Did you see that weird comment?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody so somebody sent that to me.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think it's a Facebook.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Did they send it to you directly?
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_01: Or or someone posted it and then someone else screenshot it and somebody screenshot it and said to me.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, it was like this weird.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, are you stalking me?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_02: What's going on here?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: Like, why are you that obsessed with me?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: But some hater just saying, like, I'm not a real archaeologist because I don't have a degree in anthropology, and I'm like, Well, I I do, though.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Is it because you don't introduce yourself as uh anthropologist and archaeologist?
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't know.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: You have to ask them.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: How do most archaeologists introduce themselves?
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Do they just say I'm an anthropologist slash archaeologist?
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: No, that doesn't mean you just say I'm an archaeologist.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's assumed that you have an anthropology degree to be an archaeologist, right?
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, most people wouldn't understand that.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I assume most people wouldn't know.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_02: One would hope, but yes, so for the record, my friend, my degree is in anthropology with a focus in archaeology.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was gonna ask, what is your your focus?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: All this to say I'm a real archaeologist.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so you say.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I say.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: Allegedly.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I mean, I was asking in reference to, for instance, like uh when I received my my um bachelor's, uh, I double majored, so I have a BFA uh in uh fine art, and uh the other one, my bachelor's is uh in ethnic studies, but it was under the history department, so it's history, ethnic studies with a concentration in Mexican American studies.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: Nice, yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like three levels one, two, three, boom.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of what I was asking.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is there so it's it's anthropology, archaeology, and uh I was wondering if like there was an area of interest within that when you went to school.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh Southwest, general southwestern archaeology.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little bit different for archaeology, yeah.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then, you know, I've been um branching out, doing some work in Belize, so extending, but really it's like I like to tell people my um my focus of my personal research is the Southwest and Mesoamerica and and how the two areas interrelate to each other.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: So or as I like to say astlan and Anawak.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: There you go.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: Astlanawak.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_02: So how are things like your Texas is like right on the Gulf of uh Astlantes, isn't it?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like right there.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_02: The Gulf of Atlantis.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: God damn it, I can't believe this fucking moron.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like shit's getting fast.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, shit's getting bad really, really fast.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: It is getting fast too.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's better.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I that's what I meant about winter.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's gonna get worse, you know, with with this fool.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like yeah, it's it's like I don't know in New Mexico, but here in Dallas growing up, we had a saying for people like that.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: We used to call them Los Sincronizados because they had their ass synchronized with their with their mouth every time they talk they shit.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: They talk shit all the time.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's nothing but garbage that comes out that fool's mouth.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_01: I swear.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's gonna get bad.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of things that are bad, you know, sending my uh my thoughts and good vibes out there to all the Henta in LA and surrounding areas right now, dealing with uh those fires.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Take care of yourselves, you know, and stay safe.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Help each other out.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's all we could do right now, man.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's help each other out.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And not point fingers and not blame people for extraneous circumstances.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like, I mean, this is part of the the whole hoax of uh uh global warming, right?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, luckily it's fake, right?
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Luckily it's fake and nothing's happened in California, right?
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's all fake news.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: As as some people like to say.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_02: How much do you want to bet that this asshole, once he takes office, like tries to cut any sort of aid to we tried doing it before.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we I mean, I don't know if you remember this, but like when you know, during COVID, like he was giving preferential treatment to states that had Republican governors.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and Democratic states had to pretty much fend for themselves for a lot of the PPE and all that stuff.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you remember this.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: It was like competition between states for life-saving essential uh necessities instead of being able to rely on the federal government, which that's what it's supposed to do, to be there for the states in time of need, in time of war, emergency, if anything else, that's what it's meant to do.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: And when you politicize it in this way, and uh he's not even in office yet, and he's already talking all this nonsense, projecting and you know, giving everyone a warning of what's to come.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: But we knew this going into this, and like I said last time, you know, good luck to to everyone, not just not just those people who who voted for us, dumbass, but all of us.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_01: We all need to be ready for what's coming because it's it's gonna be it's gonna be shit show 2.0.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_02: Ah that's that's an exasperated sigh of goddamn.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: Things are gonna get bad, but you know what?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: This too shall pass.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the one that I like is you shall not you shall not pass.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I am not a conjurer of cheap tricks.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: And speaking of our listeners, we have some questions, right?
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that we would like to address in this episode.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_02: For our listeners who are unaware, this will be the last episode of this season.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: Season four.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: Season four.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh heading into season five.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: Exciting, exciting times.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: So we decided that uh for the last episode of season four, we would uh take a look at some of our listener mail and hopefully answer some questions.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so if you want to take it from here.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: So I was thinking we could just go down the list and start with the latest one in the bus sprout fan mail.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: This one is from December 31st, and it's very brief.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's from someone in Visalia, California.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's how you say that.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Visalia?
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: They ask, what's your guys' thoughts on the articles on Twitter X talking about ancient American DNA and migration patterns?
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we were talking about those before we started recording.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like both of us haven't been on Shitter for a while.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I deleted my account and and I think I deleted the the Tos from Aslanta's account too, because it's like uh we're done.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: We're done here.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, we're done.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so we have absolutely no idea what this uh fan is referring to, but if someone could shed some light on that, maybe uh give us give us a send us a message.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_01: But do you I mean, just touching on the whole DNA thing and ancient American DNA, just do you have anything to say about that?
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Any any recent developments that you might have uh um encountered since our last show?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just the same stuff, you know, like people will always um point to these anomalies in in deep DNA and try to use that as like some sort of proof of pre-Gualtemuk transatlantic contact between ancient peoples and you know, for the most part, I I think uh aside from like the Vikings, um I don't think there was ever there's no evidence, there's certainly no evidence or proof of any sort of transatlantic contact between indigenous peoples here and people from elsewhere, right?
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do know that our homie uh Irrachetta is an expert in this stuff, so I'd I would like to get him on the show to talk specifically about ancient DNA and indigenous DNA because that dude's got some opinions about about rights to our data, and I would love to get him on here to absolutely.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we can have him on for season five.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: Hells yeah.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: One of the things that I would like to add about the Vikings, because uh sometimes I used to get it more often, not anymore, um, but like back I don't know, five, six years ago, um, I would get at least one student, you know, who when we were talking about early American indigenous societies and all this stuff, and they would bring up the Vikings.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: And uh one of the things that I I started saying because of students who would always ask that, I would I would say, well, you know, the Vikings, it's true, they did arrive here before Columbus, um, about at least 500 years before Columbus, and um, and they did interact with uh a few uh indigenous peoples way up north, like north of Maine, right?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's not even part of mainland continental, you know, North America, but it's part of North America.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: And what I would tell them is like, you know, despite the fact that they did arrive before Columbus, they had very minimal impact on the development of the indigenous cultures.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: There was hardly any, you know, cross uh inter-ethnic, interracial, intercultural collaboration that that we know of.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_01: What we do know is that they they were basically at odds, and so that's what ended up happening uh with the Vikings.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: They had to abandon uh those settlements because they couldn't, first of all, they were kind of left to their own devices of the people who had settled those those uh settlements, and they weren't getting along very well with the indigenous people for whatever reason.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really know the details, and so those those uh early settlements just kind of uh were either abandoned or just uh you know went went by the wayside, so they had no impact whatsoever.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: They didn't affect the development of American cultures, American indigenous societies whatsoever.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, they they arrived and that was it, you know.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: They they it was a blip in the overall history of of the Americas.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: An interesting blip.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, interesting, but it it really led to nothing.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you want to take the next one from Duluth, Minnesota, uh December 22nd.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: I've been a federal public land arch.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_02: That's short for archaeologists, for people not in the know, for about 26 years now.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_02: Two agencies, the USFS for about 13 years.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_02: That's the United States Forest Service, and now finishing off my 14th year with the NPS, the National Park Service.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: I've been a park manager during that time, running a resource management division for a small NPS unit located on an indigenous Lake Superior Ojibwe reservation, and completely co-managed with that community under the parks enabling legislation and the 1994 Tribal Self-Governance Act.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm also the ad hoc reservation arc and CR, that's cultural resources consultant, to the Tribal Council and uh TIPO, the Tribal Historical Preservation Organization.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_02: Or office, not organization.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway, I resonate so much with your podcast and episodes like this.
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's insane.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: This stuff is critical and so necessary right now.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: Please keep up the profound work you do.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to support I'm going to start supporting this effort next payday.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for all you do.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Duluth, Minnesota.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for listening.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for the support.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it always feels great to get um you know people telling telling us like, hey, I listen to you and I've learned a lot, or I've listened to you and I appreciate your work, or you know, I I even get some that are like, I listen to you, I don't agree with everything, but you know, I appreciate what you're doing.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, all right, it's weird that you don't agree with everything.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: How dare you, sir?
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: So our next uh the one that we're gonna jump to next is from Marquette, Michigan.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_01: And they say, Hi, love the podcast.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Wondering if y'all would be willing to put a reading list together of some of the books you mentioned, but also books historical and recent that are good for researching and deep dives.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, um, wow, that's I mean, we have to uh eventually get our our reading list together.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: We don't have one.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: We need to do a an official tales from us about this reading list.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: So this relates to some other questions that we've gotten on the Discord channel.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I'll I guess I'll start with my response to uh one of our Discord uh members is uh at least for Chicano related materials, I told them that the three books that I would start with um is A Cunhas, Occupied America, Chavez, my my John John R.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_01: Chavez, my who was my my uh my PhD advisor, he wrote a book entitled The Lost Land, the the image, the Chicano Image of the Southwest.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really good one.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_01: And also Aztecas del Norte, uh The Chicanos uh Abastlan, I think is a subtitle, um, by uh Jack D.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Forbes.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and those two, at least Occupied America and Aztecas del Norte are two foundational books for me, and I'm sure Curly as well.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: Occupied America is one that that is um foundational for if you're just looking at Chicano history in general.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: It was one of the first, if not the first, textbook of Mexican American slash Chicano history that came out in 1971, if I'm not mistaken.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it is now in its ninth iteration.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_01: And in fact, I use that version in my Mexican American history class.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it's still pretty good.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: And uh when it comes to more indigenous Chicano slash indigenous uh sort of analysis and and just narrative, uh Jack D.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_01: Forbes also in in the early 70s, I think it was also 1971 when he published his book.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: I think 73.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: 73?
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think um so so he was one of the first, if not the first person, even before Chicano's not that they weren't already claiming indigenity or calling themselves indigenous, but in print, who was making an argument for advancing Chicano indigenity, it was Jack D.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Forbes, he was the one of the first persons to do that.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_01: And my advisor was inspired by Forbes' work that his lost land, some of the argumentation that he uses in his book is directly influenced by Forbes.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's badass.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_02: Forbes, there's a part of that book where he talks about mestizahe and the mestizo, and it's one of the best freaking written like analyses or critiques of mestizo identity and what mestiza mestizahe is.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_02: That I'm always referring people to that.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the times I spoke to him on the phone, because I we talked to each other, I asked him if I could reprint that, if I could have the rights to reprint that specific essay.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: And he was like, Yeah, I mean, would anybody want to read it?
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, oh man, that absolutely.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I just remember he's like, Well, it I should probably rewrite it and update it, but yeah, go ahead.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I never got around to it.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_02: I still mean to um include it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: So it's official.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean we're gonna reprint it.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_02: Unfortunately, I didn't get it in writing just like over a phone conversation, but I mean that's good enough for me.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's good enough for me, man.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_02: He the the man himself gave me permission.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um this was like right after Quetz was born.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: I remember you telling me this.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is like going back like 20 something years now, right?
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like 22 years.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_02: 22 years.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: 22, 23 years ago.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_02: So I remember.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, pretty exciting stuff.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, my my three books, like you took my first two that I I would always recommend are Occupied America and Aztecas del Norte.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_02: I think everybody should read those.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um my personal suggestion: if you get Occupied America, uh get the most recent edition, but also get that first edition because the first edition is so good.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And uh well, in in the ninth edition, he goes back in in his uh um is it the prologue, I think, where he he basically is is um is saying that for many years um he was taking the advice of the various critics uh who were taking him in more of a sort of Marxist analysis approach instead of uh his um internal colonialist uh uh model that he does in the first edition, second edition, and then to the third edition, it was after the third edition that he changed it to a more Marxist uh analysis.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: But those first three, he was still using the internal colonial uh colonialist uh model uh of analysis in regards to the Chicano people of the Southwest.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_01: And in the ninth edition, he finally, you know, this is he states it too in his prologue, this is probably gonna be my last edition because I'm like in, you know, he's up there in age, like is he in his 80s or something.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and he's saying that he not that he regrets, I mean he he does appreciate the criticism, and and he, you know, he doesn't like boohoo the fact that he had to change his analysis, but he's saying for this final edition that I'm doing, I'm I'm going back to the to the internal colonial model because I think that it's it's it's it's always been valid, and I think it's valid to to go ahead and reassert it today again.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: And this is just a couple of years ago when he last updated it.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_02: I gotta get that.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because that's really the the thing that resonated with me the most with that first edition was like it's it just like spoke right to my soul, right?
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like straight into all the chicanismo that I grew up with, and I'm like, oh man, and it resonated with me so much.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_02: And then I I I have the second edition as well, and then I read parts of I think it was like the fifth or sixth edition, and I noticed the differences and I was like, oh wait, hmm.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't I have the first, second, and third, and the ninth.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even bother with the other editions at all.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's a great book.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but as far as like three books that are not those two books, um I always recommend that people read Mexico Profundo.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right, yeah, Guillermo Bonfield Batalla.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: Uh that's such a good book.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: And it really gets to the heart of Mesoamerican indigenity, the indigenity of you know, like what is a mexicano and and and just how deep our roots go.
• 25:10
  SPEAKER_02: Goes of people.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's a fantastic book.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then another oldie book Goody is this book right here.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_02: I love this book.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: This was one of the first books I had as a kid.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_02: Viva la raza.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Viva La Raza by uh Betita Martinez and Enriqueta Vasquez.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_02: And it's just so well written.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's important for two reasons.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was it was written by two chicanas, first of all, which is amazing.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: And it's it's so accessible.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's not it's not like overwritten with all this jargon and it's you know what I mean?
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's not this It's made for the lay person.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: Exactly.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's made for the people.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the thing that stuck with me as a as a kid, as a young man, was finding this book.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, yeah, one of those um when the libraries like sell off when they yeah, and that's where I found this book.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: I was gee, I'm I was like 12 or 13.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Well and I I rode my bike to the library because they were having the sale, and I came back with like a shopping bag, you know, full of books, and this was the favorite my favorite book that I picked up there.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: I highly recommend this book.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_02: And another book, this is a newer book, but I really like it, is uh Chicanismo.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, that's a good one, dude.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: Ignacio Garcia, um, The Forging of a Militant Ethos Among Mexican Americans.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_02: I thought this was a really well-written book that gets to the the heart of a lot of issues.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_02: But um I'm gonna throw in one other book just because I just finished reading it.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: Which one?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: Uh In the Shadow of Quetzalcoat, Celia Nutal and the Search.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_02: Uh what is it?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: Is this the book about her?
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like uh an autobiography.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_02: No, autobiography.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: You write it yourself, right?
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_02: Biography of uh Celia Nutal.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's written by uh Marilee Grindel.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: And man, it's such a good book.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And this woman, like, if you want to talk about like heroes or idols in archaeology, for me, Celia Nutal is like right there because she um you read this book and and it's so beautifully written, and it just tells her life story, and this woman went through some shit, bro.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, and uh like just rose to the top and became like this presence, yeah, yeah, in Mesoamerican archaeology.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so I I'm a big fan of this book.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a big fan of Celia Nutal.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_02: And somebody a while back, I do not know what this cartoon show is, but somebody sent me a clip.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_02: There's a little kids cartoon show where these kids travel through time and they meet like important people from the past, and they meet little kid Celia Nutal.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: Get out of here.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and they interact with her.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: Is it a Mexican one uh cartoon?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: Uh no, it's it's in English.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: In the US?
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it looked like an American production, and they're talking to her, and then they jump forward in time a little bit, and she's now like this renowned archaeologist, and she's talking to the kids.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody just sent me the clip, but yeah, this book, man.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_02: I love this book.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I just finished it, and I was like, ah, babe, you gotta read this.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you know, telling Michelle to she should read it.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_02: Jumping on to the next hey from Albuquerque, New Mexico.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_02: So it says, Hi, tales from Atlantis.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: I have recently started listening to your podcast as I am in my own journey to get back to my indigenous roots.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I absolutely loved your episode 26, The Immaculate Deception.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Hmm.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's usually not the kind of uh message we get about that episode.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it says, I was wondering if you would recommend any books with this kind of history that I could read for myself as well.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to find history, especially Mexico's history, that isn't so biased towards colonizers.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much for everything that you do, and you have gained a new fan.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: And right off the top of my head, I would recommend the book When Montezuma Met Cortes by Matthew Ristall.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: That takes a really good look um at Indigenous history the indigenous history of Mexico.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: Didn't Paul do a book as well?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Paul?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Who am I thinking about?
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_01: Not Paul.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other guy Townsend.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: The guy who was also like a priest or something.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: What's his name?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Oh uh Poole Stafford Pool.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pool.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Pool, yeah, Pool.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, Stafford Poole did the uh the book, I think it's just called um La Virgen de Guadalupe.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: La Virgen de Guadalupe.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_02: And that's an excellent book, man.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: That guy, that guy goes in deep.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, right.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he does.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great book.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um and then also um Qualtemox Bones is another another great book, and also a topic for next next season.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've already got the script written up.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_02: And what is the one that Townsend wrote?
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_02: Uh The Fifth Son.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_02: The Fifth Son.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: Fifth Son.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good one.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_02: Recent book.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: Another book that I would recommend is uh Faking Ancient Mesoamerica by Nancy Kelker and Karen O'Bruins.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's uh a good one.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_02: That one um delves into uh friend and fan of the show, Domingo Martinez Paredes.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_02: Uh he's uh he's mentioned in there as well as a bunch of other famous uh fraudsters in um the of the Mesoamerican past.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Speaking of fraudsters, uh what's what's a Feder's book?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Frauds, Myths and Mysteries.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: Frauds, myths and mysteries.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because he's the only one that I've encountered um who is an academic, well, who I guess he's not retired, right?
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: But who at the time he was still a teaching professor who tackled the black old make myth.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_01: Because no one, especially coming from a white person, a white archaeologist, they don't want to touch that with a temple pole because oh, they don't accuse you know racism and all this stuff.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Like, no, just tell it like it is a truth.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like medicine.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: But hey exactly.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_02: Where have I heard that before?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, he also wrote another great book, The Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that's one that I recommend for people that are interested, interested in, you know, the topics that we cover in uh in this book.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_01: Is that where he exposes the giants that are the skeletons that are found over in the uh the Grand Canyon?
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: It might be.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um like I said, the guy was written so I've read I've read so much of his stuff that it all and then he writes about you know similar topics that everything just starts to blend together.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_02: Great uh great writer, um, great guest.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: We had him, was it on season one?
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: Was it one or two?
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was like one or two.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was season two.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think it was season one, maybe, I don't know.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a while.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, great guy.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's one from Seattle that says, just heard Curly on Squaring the Strange and just loved it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: Any idea when you'll have the book available again?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_01: I'd much rather buy it directly from you than from Amazon.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_01: Just downloaded all the podcast episodes and can't wait to get started.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: The book are they referring to the four disagreements?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: The four disagreements, yeah, because I was talking about that on Squaring the Strange.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, right, right.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I mean, let's talk about that book.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_01: We published it, was it like early 2022?
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just so happened to have it in my grubby little mitts.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: 2023.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, okay, so it's only been a couple of years.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so this one, people who have reached out to me, like they appreciate what we did there.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we offer uh ways for for people to kind of cut through the nonsense when they hear people talk and make arguments and you know uh try to discern when when there's a logical fallacy that's at play, right?
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: And so there's the the I did the um the prologue to the book, and then you did like an introduction to it, and then the rest of it is just kind of logical fallacies one-on-one, right?
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm wondering, um, because I think this also came up, I'm not sure if it was in Discord or on one of the comments on one of the episode posts on Facebook or something, where someone was uh suggesting that we do a book um that was kind of like similar to Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and then some someone chimed in.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, isn't that what the four disagreements is kind of like yes and no, right?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's yeah, it kind it's an introduction to to our position, but we it's not a book length uh monograph like Dawkins' book, right?
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm wondering, do do we do we want to do tackle that?
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that would be a large undertaking.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it would take years to at least a year or two if if we sat down and and if you know after work, after the grind, yeah, after everything else that we do, and be able to, you know, dish out this this uh it wouldn't be a monograph because it would be the two of us doing it, presumably.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_01: So it would be like a collaboration co-authored book.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm thinking about it, why not?
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, uh is there an audience for such a thing?
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, please let us know.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: Leave us a comment, send us a message, whatever.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: If you think that you'd um appreciate reading something along the lines from a Chicanam indigenous perspective, as uh The God delusion or uh any other similar book, uh let us know and we'll we'll uh get into making the effort.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: So um speaking of the four disagreements, uh I just shipped off uh several copies to a university that is going to be using it in a class.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, right on in a uh Chicano studies class.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_02: Excellent, about time.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: So introducing uh critical thinking and uh skeptical inquiry, scientific literacy to the field of Chicano studies, which is more or less why we wrote this book, why we put it together.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: So to see it being used in that setting at a university, um in the field of study that needs it too.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, unfortunately.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, with when Chicano Mexican American Studies first came out, like the people who were doing it were like very like gung-ho about it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then over the years, I don't know what happened.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_01: I really don't know what happened to Chicano Mexican American Studies.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: It became very woo-woo, became very wishy-washy, not very critical, not I mean, I don't know, dude.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's very disappointing.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: Very disappointing.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is very disappointing.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is a message that someone left back in June.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, it says, Hey Curly, my name is Belon.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a major fan of the podcast.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: I am Parpure Pacha on my mother's side and a descendant of the Pohatan and Saponi Indians on my father's side.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_01: I have a major interest in hopefully one day being able to create a nation for our people, the Chicano with an X, that can be federally recognized, or at the very least, get the recognition we deserve as indigenous people in this continent.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: That love, I'd oh, I'd love to go on the show one day and talk about our experiences with everything.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_01: Believe it or not, some of the nations up here respect us and view us as native people.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: I live in Choctaw Country, Oklahoma, and when I pull up uh to the market, the Choctaws give me my discount on uh good food and just on the strength of me identifying as indigenous.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I told them thanks, but no thanks, and they refuse, so I get a discount when I go down there and appreciate them for that.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: We should talk.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_01: Great show.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_01: So this is directed straight to you.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_02: Awesome.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: Well, thank you for listening first.
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: And um, yeah, you know what?
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: I noticed the same thing in Oklahoma when I went out there for the um the indigenous pop cultural festival.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: Did you pop yeah mad love, man, and just acceptance from natives from Oklahoma.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and it was really cool.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: It was refreshing, actually, to not have to like answer like a hundred questions or whatever.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, people everybody was just there and and hanging out and having a good time, and people would come up and um ask me questions because I was selling copies of the calendar too.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, and uh a lot of people were coming up asking me questions about you know Mexica timekeeping and the Mesoamerican calendar system and just wanting to know uh more about us.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then there were a lot of natives coming up saying, like, well, I'm part Mexican, you know, so like and I don't know anything about that, man.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like, like, where should I look to find out more about you know this group or that group, you know, the Raramuris or the Wirraricas or whoever it was that you know that they were trying to to find out more information about.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it was a really cool experience being in Oklahoma.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: And I appreciate that this person identifies a Chicano and and not uh like here in Dallas.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it just it could just be the people that I've encountered, but a lot of the mixed natives, and by mixed, I don't mean like like we're all mixed, right?
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, who are Chicano or Mexican American and uh you know Native uh North American, like they usually identify as their tribe and then Hispanic next to it.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm I'm Lakota and Hispanic, or I'm you know Cherokee and Hispanic, or whatever the case may be, right?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, you're indigenous all the way through, don't you get it?
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I appreciate that that you know when you step outside of these spaces where these terms aren't in contention as much, you because I remember when we went to um we went to Pine Ridge, and this is uh I don't know, maybe 15 or so years ago.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um we took a trip out there and we had a ceremony with uh some of our Lacola relatives out there, and uh I mean it was crazy because like I knew this from talking to people, but it's one thing to just hear someone tell you how life is on a reservation that is very impoverished, like Pine Ridges.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: But when you go there, I mean, literally, I was like, man, this looks like Oak Cliff, like my neighborhood.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everyone there is they look Chicano to me, even though they're Lakota.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: And most of them are intermarried with Mexican uh people who have migrated there, you know, uh over the decades.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: And so, I mean, it's like when we when we talk about how we're so related, but we're not the same people, this is what we mean.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we are different tribes, we're indigenous to the continent, but you know, oftentimes we get so mired in these labels and we get so wrapped up in in the political conversations about you know a line that divides the north and the south, you know, that divides those that speak primarily one colonized language versus a different colonized language.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_01: And we allow those things to separate us instead of saying no, part of the decolonization project is to do away with those divisions and try to find that common ground that binds us together.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: And when you go to Oklahoma, when you go to you know South Dakota, those people are doing it.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's their life.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like they're it's it's part of who they are, it's part of their existence, and and there's no need for them to justify it or to qualify it in any other way because they understand, you know, that they are indigenous through and through, despite the fact that you know they're quote unquote mixed.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: But when you go to a different place where it's so politicized and and you know, it becomes this thing where it's one group against a different group, and it's like you're trying to talk to people on that level, and and and you're trying to explain to them, look, just because you know, my ancestry comes from south of the border, for instance, right?
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't mean that, first of all, that I'm not indigenous.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: Second of all, that that we can't treat each other as fellow indigenous people on this space, right?
• 42:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's it's frustrating because with in the current climate, we get to a point where we have people who should be on our side, who should be um uh uniting with us on a on on that front to resist to resist the the the the temptation to to oppress people who don't look like you or who don't talk like you or who are browner than you, right?
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, these are the conversations that we have on the Discord, and and I'm only bringing this up because it's like it's something that's very present in my mind right now, just you know the everything that's going on, and then you know, our discussions that we have on Discord and how we do how we have a certain subset uh of people who are indigenous but don't want to um acknowledge our indigenity as Chicano Mexicanos, and then you have people like like this this individual who posts on our bus sprout fan mail, and you know, he's half Lakota and half Chicano, and he's proud of it, and he's like, I'm trying to do something with this, I'm trying to, I'm I'm I'm here on the reservation, I'm here in my land, and I'm and I'm telling people that we're indigenous and they appreciate that.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: And like you said, they appreciate it where you go.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and so if we can get more of that going, I think that you know, if more more indigenous people from both sides of this uh artificial division that separates us would unite, I think that we would we would definitely turn the tide on a lot of the nonsense that's that's going on right now.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, I just got on my little soapbox there, but I mean I agree, I agree.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: Two cents the only thing that you know the issue there and and it relates to what this uh this this listener letter about the federal recognition thing for Chicanos and you know I've I try to stay away from discussions about that because then it becomes a question of like fighting over resources and like what do you mean you want federal recognition?
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, what what would that entail exactly?
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to get benefits?
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_02: Are you trying to qualify for certain things?
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally get that.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm like, for me, it's a nice I would rather have other indigenous people recognize us as indigenous people than like the United States government give me a fucking card that says, no, you're you're actually an indigenous person.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, here in in New Mexico, you have state recognition for the Genizaro groups, right?
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of Chicanos in New Mexico descend you know from one degree to the other to henizaros, like they'll have a henizado in in their and in their ancestry.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: So there already is like that state recognition, and and even that I've seen it cause conflict with the federally recognized tribes.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, I I don't really place a lot of importance on federal recognition.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's enough for me when I get a message on social media from like a Hopi person or you know, uh an Apache person saying, Hey brother, I appreciate what you're doing.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: You know, that you keep up the good work.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: Let's you know keep keep pissing them off.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then I got another one uh that says, uh, I'm so thankful that I came upon your podcast, enriching and adding my understanding of our shared history and ancestors.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Kwakwai.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_02: Uhwai is hopi for thank you.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: So nice.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like getting cool messages like that means way more to me than the federal government being like, okay, we we accept you.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I I I totally get what you're saying because this is a conversation that we've had for a long time within the Chicano, Mexicano, Indigenous quote unquote Mexica community.
• 46:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we we we talked about this like decades ago, right?
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: But um recently, um, back in November, I was invited to um to talk at um uh local uh university here in in the the Dallas uh Fort Worth area for Indigenous People's Day.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was on a panel where the discussion Was about um state-recognized tribes and their struggle uh in relation to the federal government and other federally recognized tribes and things like that.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that I stressed in my part of the discussion was that a lot of, and so I was there to represent the Miacan Garza and the Kualotegan uh you know people.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so one of the things that that that I um stressed was that for at least the Miacan Garza, uh Kualotegan uh band, that for us, we don't really want federal recognition because we want to be, like you were saying, recognized by the you know the federal government or the colonizer government, however you want to interpret that.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_01: But for us, it's important that we at least have the recognition to be able to conduct our ceremonies in peace, right?
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: So the medicine meeting, for instance, you know, that's a huge part of Coalitekan tradition.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: In fact, quote, you know, if you ask Dr.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_01: Garasa, he'll tell you that Coaltecans, at least uh in this part of the Americas, were the ones who first uh uh uh developed the the ceremony, the one that even the NACs, the Native American church people do, even though they've changed it, right?
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: But like the origins of it go back to the Kuwaitans.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: And so he says, isn't it ironic that here we are, we are descendants of indigenous people who were from Texas, who still live in Texas, and we don't really have the legal right uh to conduct our ceremonies.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we have to ask for special privileges and you know, go through all these hoops to be able to get the medicine and to be able to uh use it uh uh and and and take it as a sacrament and and and ceremony.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one thing, right?
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: That federal recognition would allow Kuala Techan peoples to be able to do that in peace without having to worry about any legal ramifications.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're you know if you're driving and you're caught with it and you don't have a card showing that you're Native American, proper paperwork, that you belong to the Native American church or whatever, like you're in trouble, right?
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's considered a controlled substance.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that's one.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: And two, also uh the it's uh efforts in repatriation, right?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: Because now with the changes that have come about, just last year, early last year, this time last year, 2024, January 2024, the federal government revamped the NAGPROS, the Native American Graves and Repatriation Protection Act, uh, to now before state tribes were able to request remains and artifacts for repatriation, and it was always left up to uh you know the institution, whether or not they wanted to honor that.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, in Texas, it's been very difficult, but now they changed it to where if a state recognized tribe wants to repatriate, they basically have to partner with a federally recognized tribe.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, there's no recourse for a state tribe to get anything.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's made it even harder for the Qualitecans because, as you know, I mean, because you've helped us out in some of the repatriation that we've done, that um that it's making it more difficult, more difficult than it already was to try to not only request the remains, but to even, you know, get them uh from different institutions, whether it's a university, a museum, what have you.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_01: And so if you have federal recognition, unfortunately, that's one way to get around it because you you are a federally recognized tribe, and and if you request, and and and a lot of institutions, they they drag their feet and they come up with all these excuses, and by law, they have to reach out to whatever nearest uh you know BIA tribe or federally recognized tribe that that there is and ask for the for their uh opinion, right?
• 51:13
  SPEAKER_01: If it's if they want, if if if that tribe is okay with that institution handing over remains and artifacts.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's like with the way the that the law is written, how they rewrote the the phrasing in AGPRA, it's like the institution has no obligation to even do anything anymore if if a state recognized tribe requests those remains or artifacts.
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's interesting.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_02: It's a double-edged sword, yeah.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, for sure.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_02: So uh thank you, dear listener, for that thoughtful letter.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: I hope that was somewhat helpful.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I should all uh say that um talesfromostlantis at gmail.com if you want to uh email us directly.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's the email that is uh set up for the show.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you want to interact with us, like on a daily, and uh you know, you could sign up to uh be a uh a supporter on the disc on the uh the Patreon.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: You get access to the Discord, and we've got an awesome community on the Discord, some cool conversations, some great people.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Um I'm really enjoying it.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_02: I remember when it first started, there was only a few people, and I'm like, oh my gosh, nobody wants to participate.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_02: But now it's uh it's getting bigger, yeah, it's growing bigger and bigger, and it's awesome.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so I want to take this moment to thank all of those supporters that are active on the uh the Discord because we appreciate you for sure.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I also want to give a shout out to Sitlali, who did the cover art for the new edition of the calendar that's coming out soon.
• 53:02
  SPEAKER_02: So nice, yeah.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_02: I'm excited.
• 53:05
  SPEAKER_01: Is this uh Sitlali?
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_01: She spells it with an X.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_02: But what is the last name?
• 53:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um what is the last name?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: I have her on.
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_02: I was I was gonna say Soshime, but I don't think it's Soshima.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh Sitlali.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_02: Her uh her Instagram is uh hold on.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I saw someone on Facebook at that that posted something about having done a cover for a book.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's that's that's who that was.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, that's who that was.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just making sure.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's another book that's coming out.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like Sitlali Shochi, I think is what she goes by, and her Instagram is uh Soch Shochil Art.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: So if you want to check out the word.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: It might also be her for for this other book.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not gonna give it away, but yeah, there's there's another book coming out.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh our faithful listeners might be able to deduce who I'm referring to, but there's going to be a book about Dansa.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's uh presumably if things go right, it'll be published this year.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_01: And um they uh they were looking, they reached out to me because they were looking for someone to do their cover art.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and um and uh I was trying to help them out, but I couldn't find anyone, and they finally reached out to somebody else, and they were able to hook them up with an artist, and so I'm not sure why I was putting those two together, you know.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, okay, so was it Swashi?
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe not.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, so yeah, so there's there's a book on Dansa coming out pretty soon.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of dansa in books, so just off of the top of my head, for those of you that want to look into the history of dansa or what's been written about dansa, um, I don't have a list in front of me, but let me see if I can remember the names and the authors.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the very first books about danza, azteca, or conchera uh, or danza tradicional, uh, you know, they're all kind of uh condensed uh and and uh into danza, right?
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because they they all kind of come from the same source.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh was Martha Stone's uh at the was it at the sign of midnight?
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think which was published, if I'm not mistaken, it was like either late 60s, early 70s.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I believe you're right.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um so that was one of the very first book lengths monographs that was uh done about that and stuff.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: So if you're interested, it's it's a rare book.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's not so rare that you won't be able to find a copy online.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_01: I've I've been able to purchase three in the last 10 years.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_01: I have two copies and I gave one to do you have your copy still, Curly?
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_01: I do.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_01: I gave you one.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I've been able to purchase three.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so it's it's not that rare, but you should be able if you do a nice Google search uh and or search your your your usual um book um sellers, you might be able to find a copy.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that's one book.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: Then you also have the book um by um what's the lady's name who did um uh carrying their word.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, um uh what is her name?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Rojas?
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_02: Rojas uh Rost Rostas?
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_02: Rostas?
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_02: Something like that.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great book.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a really good book.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um carrying the the word.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um what's what's another good book on danza?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, Peña.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_01: Piña, is it piña or peña?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Francisco de la piña?
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah, Peña.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: Peña, Los Hijos del Sexto Sorry, Sexto Sol.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's a s that's in Spanish, right?
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so that if you're if you're a Spanish reader, if you know how to read in Spanish, that's a really good book on Dansa.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's one of it's one of the first books that takes a really critical look at at Dansa.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um uh Stone, she was an active participant, so that book is more like um anthropological sort of what's it called when when the anthropologist is kind of immersed in the community?
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_01: There's a name for that.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: Participant observation.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: Participant observation.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that book is is is a participant observation, and and she does have a few things to say, but it's not like a critical analysis, uh, as we would uh think of one.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh carrying the word is more of a sort of accounting uh of the history of Dansa, its origins.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's more your typical anthropological take on on a topic, in this case being dansa, but Francisco de la Peña, and he like goes in and he's like very critical of stuff, right?
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: The nitty-gritty.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: He's one of the first people to really like uh touch upon the new age influence in Dansa, touch upon the MCR.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the MCRCA, too, the other lady, um who I'm thinking about.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Lady of Gemes?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, Güemez.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: In 1980, now this is a very rare, hard-to-find uh study.
• 58:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not it's it's a monograph study, but it's not it's not a historical book.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh it's basically an anthropological analysis, it's more academic.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_01: But she before Peña in 1980, 81, something like that, she looked at the MCRCA, the Movimiento Confederado Restaurador de la Cultura de Anahuac, and uh really kind of like just you know tore into them and exposed them for their very problematic views, uh, some of which are, you know, we've talked about this before, and you know, some of the people who were part of the MCRC, at least at the time that she was interviewing people in the late 70s, had very fascistic um ideologies, and some of them were even like Nazi sympathizers.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's crazy.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_01: Also, um, The Truths of Others.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_01: The truths of by Alicia Iwanska.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Iwanska.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a that's a good book, too.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's a fantastic book.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_01: She also looks at the MCRCA and she compares uh what she called, she she divides people um as people who who she interviewed who were uh mainly in Mexico City were either indigenous who came from indigenous communities, or uh as she called them mestizos, people who were from Mexico City or who lived in Mexico City and who were part of the MCRCA.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and even though some of these people were actually like also came from indigenous communities or had uh you know a largely indigenous background, she for for uh simplicity's sake, she just defines one as Indio or Indigenous and the other as mestizo uh to make that distinction between people who come from a rural community and those who were more urban.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but she does, I think she also does a very good uh analysis of of uh the MCRCA.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not really about dansa, it's more about ideology, the philosophy.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and identity and identity and um assimilation.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_02: Um yeah, it's a great book, man.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: It's a great book.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_02: Great book.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_01: That one might be hard to find.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not sure.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, that's that's definitely I have a copy of it, but it's it's definitely hard to find.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have the do you have the hardback?
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_02: I have the hardback.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's the hardback.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_02: I know they did a paperback of it, but I've never I've never seen it.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_02: But um they have it listed sometimes on rare book sites.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um but it ray it piqued my interest.
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, really?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_02: They did a paperback of that?
• 1:00:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, those those are those are good books on that side.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, the one that's about to come out.
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'm not sure what the title of it is yet, but we'll definitely either make an announcement or have the author on the show so that they can.
• 1:00:47
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited for that one.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I had the artist's name backwards.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's uh not Sitlali Shochi, it's Shochil Sitlali.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there you go.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: But shout out to her because her art's awesome and I really appreciate is that the one you posted on the Discord?
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, yeah, that's the cover.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was wondering where you got.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, where do you get this from?
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't look like it comes from a codex.
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's dope.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_02: Uh we we appreciate all of the comments.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I do want to make uh an announcement that if you live in Colorado, the Chicano license plate is now available.
• 1:01:31
  SPEAKER_02: So you when you register your vehicle, you can get the Chicano license plate.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_02: The website says the Chicana slash O license plate was created by El Movimiento Sigue to honor the rich culture and history of our Chicana Chicano community.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_02: Get yours below, and then it has the steps that you have to go through to uh you'll get a pin, I guess, to take to the DMV, and then you'll get your plate.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_02: So very cool.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_02: That just that just came out.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so jealous of all you Denverites or Coloradoites.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: Coloradites, Coloradans, Coloradans, yeah.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: How do they refer to themselves?
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_01: Is it Coloradans?
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_02: We we grew up calling it Colorada Slan, right?
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_02: Like every other Chicano kid.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but yeah, Coloradan.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_02: That's we usually just I mean, I'm from I'm from Dog Patch, so we just call ourselves dog patchers, bro.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_02: Send me that plate.
• 1:02:30
  SPEAKER_02: So do you have uh any final words for uh like just real quick, what was your favorite episode this season?
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Man, what was my favorite?
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we did several that I really liked.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Chicano Power was uh one on the top of my list.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um of course uh the Mexica flag, the the Aztec Fun flag, the false flag.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: That was a good one too.
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was a great that that was that was one that that was a long time coming.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that a lot of people maybe like wished we had done that like in the first season.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_02: Like, yeah, yeah.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's one of those those topics that's like you know, high up there in in the Mexica pantheon of of one of the cornerstones of that of that movement.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think people have been waiting for that one, and so we finally got around to doing it.
• 1:03:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so those two, I also like the one we did uh with uh the historian The Aztec Witches, Rob Martinez.
• 1:03:36
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna say that that's probably my favorite episode of the season is the Aztec Witches of New Mexico with Rob Martinez.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: Rob Martinez.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_02: Um that one was a lot of fun, a lot of cool information, and just to know that the state historian for New Mexico is a Chicano who identifies as a Chicano and is not afraid to like talk about the Mesoamerican roots of the state and just the the silliness of the whole we're Spanish nonsense.
• 1:04:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: Little known fact about Rob Martinez, his sister, his little sister, apparently, back in the I don't know if it was the late 70s, early 80s, like she she had uh uh a recording.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and and her name was La Chicanita, that's what they called her.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, La Chicana.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_01: La Chicanita.
• 1:04:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because even before we did because this is our first uh this is our second um interview that we've done with him.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: So the first the first time around, like even before I knew who he was, and he started telling us about you know his family, I'm like, wait a minute, so La Chicanita's your sister?
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: And it's funny because like I collect vinyl records, right?
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was at one of my the shops here in town, and I remember seeing it, and and I was like, um, I already had a stack full of records.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I'm gonna put this back and I'll come back for it.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: And sure enough, I went back for it and someone swiped it.
• 1:04:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was gone.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I told Rob, I told him, I told him, man, if I go back and and and that record's still there, I'm gonna I'm gonna get it and I'm I'm gonna send it to you, you know, so you can have um a copy of your sister's uh um record.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: So but so that that was cool, you know, about him.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_01: And so those three, and also, I mean, we should also mention the interview that we did with uh Scott Russell Duncano.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: That was a good one.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: That was actually my second favorite.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh Old California Strikes Back.
• 1:05:32
  SPEAKER_02: Strikes Back.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: And his book is out, so please uh support Chicano authors and uh get his book.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's a great book, it's so fun and uh well written, just a lot of cool stuff, man.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, this was a good season.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_01: We did it was we had a lot of good ones, like the one uh with uh Chupacabras.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I couldn't make that show.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was you and uh Ben Ben Radford and Radford, the Nazca lines and Chupacabras.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: Oh no, wait, that's that's an old show, right?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_02: That you re-released, yeah, yeah.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_02: That was that's what it was from my original podcast.
• 1:06:10
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, like what, like 20 years?
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_02: No, not even 15 years ago.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, like 15 years ago.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_02: What other ones did we do?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_02: Uh the Nahuatl Nations, right?
• 1:06:19
  SPEAKER_02: With uh Magnus.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, yeah, with Magnus, and then uh the episode on the Nepo Waltsin.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_02: That was a good one too.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was the second declaration of Anawak.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was uh I mean, I was just amazed that I was able to find that that audio.
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_02: I could I mean I could imagine how that felt finding that audio and be like, Holy shit!
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was like striking gold.
• 1:06:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I've I've held on to this second declaration of a Nawak since I was doing uh my my my dissertation, and it I didn't include it in the dissertation because I was like, I mean, I don't know what to do with this, right?
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_01: And plus I I wasn't sure like who had you know recited it, where it came from, like had no information on it, and and then I found the clip just on a whim, just doing just deep, deep rabbit hole searches, and I found this clip, and I was like, it was like wow, like it was like I said, it was like striking gold.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: It was so badass.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: We also did uh that two-part episode uh with uh Luis Herran Avila on the Mexican elections and right-wing movements in Mexico, yeah, and then um the Aztecs versus Samurai Pirates.
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_02: That was like legit one of my favorite episodes we've ever done.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think enough people listened to that one, man, because that's one of my favorite episodes, and I'm like, oh come on, everybody should listen to this one.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_02: Which one was uh what number was it?
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: Episode uh uh the Aztecs versus Samurai.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's episode 57.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_02: So that one I really like.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_02: Damn, we had a solid freaking season.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_02: Wow, just looking back at it.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_02: Looking back, right?
• 1:08:09
  SPEAKER_02: I'm quite proud of us.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_02: Well, cool, man.
• 1:08:14
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I'm just gonna take this opportunity to say how much I appreciate you, my friend, and our friendship.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, and I look forward to uh continuing this show.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: We'll be back uh in March.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: Are we March?
• 1:08:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's already the beginning of the year.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: January.
• 1:08:35
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we got we gotta do it, man.
• 1:08:37
  SPEAKER_01: We gotta do it.
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I was hoping May this time around.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like we did this super long season four.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: Can we we take a long break and come back in May?
• 1:08:49
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna shoot for March after the semester's over.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right, the spring semester.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I teach all all year long, but still it's it's less, it's a it's a lesser load in the summertime.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll we'll shoot for March.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: Late March.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_02: Well, yeah, yeah.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we we try to do it to console uh to coincide with the the Mexica New Year.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_02: The Mexica New Year.
• 1:09:11
  SPEAKER_02: But which Mexica New Year, Carly?
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_02: The real one.
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_02: The real one, the fun yes, the funky feel one.
• 1:09:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_02: Well, cool, man.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: Um, stay warm out there.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_02: And to all our peeps out in uh California, stay safe.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and to all our listeners, you know, thank you.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much for supporting us.
• 1:09:32
  SPEAKER_02: Uh it's been a great season.
• 1:09:34
  SPEAKER_02: We're excited to come back with season five.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: And remember, the truth is like medicine, it doesn't always taste good, but it is always good for you.