Latest / Breaking Precedent / Breaking the Pattern: Paige Hendrix Buckner on Leadership, Access, and Building What’s Missing
Transcript
- Leah (00:00.078) Okay, so Paige, I'm gonna walk you through what we're gonna do. We're gonna just, in here. record intro and outro later. So for this part, we'll just dive right in. We're gonna start with an icebreaker and then go through. And then at the end, we're gonna end with a live game of playing cards. We're gonna try something new. Paige Hendrix Buckner (00:04.402) Thanks, man. Sounds great. Paige Hendrix Buckner (00:26.356) Love, love, please. Leah (00:28.334) And that's it. If you need to pause, stop, et cetera, this is highly edited, so feel free. I think that's it. Good. Okay. Sure. Can you set your full name? I just wanna make sure I pronounce it right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (00:34.398) Great. Awesome, can't wait. Paige Hendrix Buckner (00:44.85) Yep, Paige Hendricks-Buckner. Leah (00:47.382) Okay, that's what I thought. Okay, great. All right. Beth, do you need us? Paige Hendrix Buckner (00:48.958) Perfect, nice job, you're on it. Leah (00:56.046) Yep. Leah (01:00.524) Alright, Leah (01:13.942) Okay, I can do that. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:15.38) felt like it was skipping a little bit on my side and I just thought those were my earbuds. I was like, I think it's okay. Leah (01:22.766) Just re-plugged it in. Allow. allow. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:23.32) Mm-mm-mm-mm-mm-mm. Leah (01:37.454) Okay. Leah (01:43.85) Okay. Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:53.716) hear you. Leah (01:55.534) problem. It won't let me switch it, but it says I'm on my iPhone mic. That's what's going on. Let me just try to switch it here. guest, Leah. Can you try to switch my mic or no? I have to do it. All right, I'm gonna leave and come back in then. Paige Hendrix Buckner (02:16.787) I moved, I know, I know, I know all the little tiny things. We just submitted a proposal to launch a podcast and I was like, oh, this is the beginning of the complexity. Paige Hendrix Buckner (02:33.107) So much. I'm not, but I know I'm gonna be doing it. So there we go. Yeah, we're doing it. Paige Hendrix Buckner (02:48.347) You know it. Have you been doing this a lot, Ben? Is this something you've been doing for a while? Leah (02:54.23) Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (02:54.685) That's awesome. Leah (02:56.803) Is that better? Is that better? Okay. Check, check, check. Okay. Amazing. Okay. You know, these things are just so crazy. I know. Everyone's ready for it to be the weekend, including my microphone. Yeah. Okay. Amazing. Okay. Thanks, Ben. Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:00.274) yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:05.255) Bye-oh! Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:09.629) They quit. It's Friday. Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:18.107) your equipment. Bye! Thanks, friend. Leah (03:27.923) All right, Paige, thank you so much for joining me here on Breaking Precedent. Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:33.011) Thanks for having me, Leah. Leah (03:34.571) Yeah, I am so thrilled. I'm so excited to dive in with you. I want to start, though, with a little icebreaker. And the question for you is, before venture capital, before All Raise, before all these things, was there a moment where you realized in your life that maybe access versus talent was the real differentiator? Paige Hendrix Buckner (03:41.299) Okay, let's do it. Paige Hendrix Buckner (04:02.959) Yes. When I was, yes, for sure, for sure, for sure. Do you want me to share? Yeah. So when I was a kid, I remember my dad telling me, you can do whatever you want. And it's about who you know, not what you know. Which I did not understand for a really long time, but he really impressed upon me how important it was. Leah (04:04.183) Yes? Okay. Leah (04:08.771) Please elaborate. Paige Hendrix Buckner (04:30.397) to build relationships with people so that they could see what you are capable of and they could speak on your behalf. Leah (04:32.803) Mm. Leah (04:36.865) Where do you think that came from for him? Paige Hendrix Buckner (04:41.875) I mean, I think my dad growing up where he grew up and building the career that he built understood how important it was to build relationships to be successful. And he comes from a very large family in Northern Louisiana. And he was successful in part because they took such good care of him. Whether that was because they gave him jobs or helped him pay for clothes or... Leah (05:01.506) Hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (05:07.059) made sure that he had everything he needed so he could stay in school and graduate. He had a really big family from the beginning who was very supportive and wherever he went, it's always been very easy for him to build relationships. And I feel like that's something that I've definitely mimicked as I've grown up and built my career and my life. Leah (05:26.115) Yeah, it's amazing. And you've built such an incredible career, which we're gonna dive into. But I wanna dig in a little bit more about your early life and who was little Paige and get a sense of like where you really formed your lens, you know, on power and access. And so can you just tell us a little bit about where you grew up and what that was like? Paige Hendrix Buckner (05:48.913) Yeah, I grew up in a really small town and I'm one of five kids. When I was thinking about the culture of our family, humor is definitely at the center. My siblings are some of the funniest people I've ever met. And I tend to become friends with some of the funniest people ever. So when I think back to whether it's a family dinner at a buffet and how we're just poking fun at each other, or when I think about, for example, My mom got an award for recycling in our hometown, which was awesome. She made it to the front page of the paper. She's such a thoughtful human being. She's so smart and creative and started her own business. And my brother, back in the day when we used Microsoft, like those little templates for certificates, he made her a certificate and it said, congratulations to the most obsessed recycler. like Rose culture was such a part. Leah (06:23.235) Yes? Leah (06:37.505) yeah. Leah (06:43.875) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (06:47.556) and still is a part of our family, which I think is really fun. But played sports as a kid, loved to read as a kid, spent a lot of time outside. My dad ran a fish hatchery, so we spent a lot of time there together. My mom taught herself how to sew and built this incredible business. And so we also spent a lot of time crafting. It was just a really fun, yeah, energetic job. Leah (06:59.393) Yeah, cool. Leah (07:07.171) It's amazing. Amazing. And you're one of five. What is the birth order? I have to ask. I could have guessed that. Yeah. I was being very polite, Paige, but I was like, yes. Yes. Same. Same. I feel you. feel you. Yep. Yep. Love a sense of control. That's amazing. Paige Hendrix Buckner (07:14.482) I'm the oldest child, which is probably not surprising. Giving oldest child, oldest daughter energy. Just a lot of desire to control and take charge. Love a sense of control. Leah (07:40.003) So I'm curious growing up in that environment, it sounds like you had some amazing role models with your parents, et cetera, but was there anyone in your life who really shaped how you think about ambition and what would be possible for you? Paige Hendrix Buckner (07:43.067) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (07:47.25) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (07:59.123) I mean, again, my parents always instilled this sense of possibility in all of us that we could do whatever we wanted, which I appreciate. And I think at times, especially being a founder has allowed me to run untethered from reality, which I think you need to have when you're creating something brand new. But the one person that had a really big impact on my life was my speech and debate coach. he, yeah, he saw something. Leah (08:03.927) Mm. Leah (08:16.109) Yeah. Leah (08:24.919) Wow. Paige Hendrix Buckner (08:28.13) And you know, I haven't actually asked him this question, but I feel like I should. He saw something in me and then pushed me to be good at speech and debate and actually to be great. He always had this big sense of possibility about the fact that I could be great. And he held me to high standards and he allowed me to dream big. And he had an effect on so many people. High school, yay, I was in high school. Leah (08:46.763) And was this in high school? This was in high school. Yeah, yeah, wow. Paige Hendrix Buckner (08:51.314) Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just opened my world up to everything. I often joke, I think I'm the only teenager that was like jacked to have porn affairs magazines. I was so hyped by my economist, you know. So yeah, I think that was the beginning and it also opened up a new skill set that I didn't know I had, but I still carry today. Leah (09:03.491) Yeah. Leah (09:15.531) Yeah, that's amazing. I know so many people that credit speech and debate as the thing that really formed them and drove them, like Anne Miraco at Floodgate. She's like an epic, can you imagine, debate person. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (09:31.032) Yes, when I found this out about her, was like, okay, know, 55, I'm obsessed with you. I know she crushed. Leah (09:37.759) I know, I know, absolutely. So I'm so interested, so, yeah, and she still does, right? It's like, I would not want to be in a debate with that woman. Paige Hendrix Buckner (09:45.606) Yes, she does. Can you be my policy partner, please? I will be your partner. Leah (09:50.243) Yes, definitely, definitely. So funny. So as you were kind of navigating these systems, like through high school, you you go on to study what in college and, and, and give me a sense of like, did you always feel like you were on a path that was designed for you? Or did you feel like you were kind of creating your own path at times? Paige Hendrix Buckner (10:15.282) So I studied geography and international studies in college. I think when I entered college, I thought there was a path you were supposed to take. And what I mean by that is I was a speech and debate nerd, I wear that proudly. And I thought it made sense for me to be a lawyer. And so I wanted to be an international human rights lawyer. And I tried to take the classes that would lead me there, I thought, but I wasn't actually as structured and as planned as I probably should have. been, if I really wanted to pursue law, I was very curious. So I love to try all kinds of classes. And at the same time, I was also working at least one job on the side. And my senior year, I had three jobs, and I was taking a full class load. Yes. And so I was paying for college. I was also paying to live while at college. And so I just had a lot on my plate. Leah (10:59.031) Wow. Wow. Paige Hendrix Buckner (11:11.014) But then also I was always interested in trying new things or starting new things. And so I don't, I thought I had a path, but I actually have just always been following my curiosity. Leah (11:22.477) I love that, following your curiosity. I think that can get you to some much more interesting places than following that traditional path, right? Yes. Were you someone that always just kind of kind of stepped up as a natural leader or did that, is that something you built over time? Paige Hendrix Buckner (11:31.132) Yes, yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (11:42.482) I mean, it's something I'm always building. And I have a deep desire to be a servant leader. I really like working in concert with other people shoulder to shoulder to build something, whether that's a nonprofit or a chapter of an organization or a business. I like doing it as a team. I was just joking with my husband that I feel like a pack animal. I love having my pack. I love having the squad. And so... Leah (11:44.674) Yeah. Leah (11:49.835) Mmm. Leah (11:55.192) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (12:09.677) Leadership feels the best to me when I get to do it in concert with other people. And so I don't, I've had a sense that I could do it. And I've also had a sense that there's a lot of responsibility. And so if I am going to do it, I need to really think deeply about what I want to accomplish. And I need to pick a good team who can help me spot my blind spots. Leah (12:33.313) Yeah, I love that. It's all about the people you surround yourself with. It makes such a huge difference. Absolutely. I mean, you've just kind of described this very nonlinear path. You described having three jobs, working through college, et cetera. What were some of those early roles or moments or pivots that really kind of shaped the leader that you are today? Paige Hendrix Buckner (12:37.721) Yes, yes, yes, yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (12:48.207) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (12:57.289) I didn't expect to become an elementary school teacher. That was not on my bingo card. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I taught fourth and fifth grade in Las Vegas. I was a Teach for America core member. And I remember telling the person who managed me, because I actually worked for Teach for America as a campus campaign coordinator my senior year. That was one of my three jobs. Leah (13:00.717) Wow, okay, okay. What grades were you teaching? Okay. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (13:19.665) And my boss said to me, I don't think you'd make it with high schoolers. I think you'd get you in the life. I think he was right. He was right. So I'm glad that I chose elementary school. But listen, fourth and fifth graders still know how to roast you, okay? They will humble you very quickly. They do not care about your resume 100%. Also, your children will get you. Leah (13:29.751) That's so funny. Leah (13:36.131) Oh, 100%. Yes, it's my life every day. Leah (13:43.299) Yes. Yes. my gosh. Paige Hendrix Buckner (13:46.29) Uh-huh. So I didn't expect it, but I remember I applied, I got in, I decided to go because I thought, okay, there's something here for me to learn and I want to do this before I go to law school. And then I took the LSAT, was not that curious about continuing to learn about the law, didn't do well on my LSAT test, didn't care to study more. And so I thought, you know what? I'm going to stick with this and see what I can learn. Leah (13:59.67) Mm-hmm. Leah (14:11.299) Yep. Leah (14:16.139) Wow, yeah tell me about those learnings at Teach for America. Paige Hendrix Buckner (14:20.901) Well, what I loved about Teach for America is it created so much structure for me. I love structure. And especially after leaving college where I had a tremendous amount of structure, it was great to have somebody who could help me on staff figure out what was happening in my classroom and look at the data and the trends. And at the same time, we were all going to graduate school at night. So it was a very intense period. I would say my students, I felt, often taught me more than I taught them. And Leah (14:42.125) Mm-hmm. Leah (14:46.883) Hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (14:48.077) I still have so many lessons from the classroom. One of them actually that transitions nicely into startups is building with the person in mind. So when you, at least when I first started teaching, I thought, okay, I'm gonna follow the standards and I'm gonna build a curriculum, blah, blah. And then you your kids. And the reality is you need to build with them in mind because kids have different reading levels and different math levels. You can be crushing at math and struggling in reading. And that means even the same kid, that one kid, Leah (15:11.021) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (15:16.879) has a different leveling experience with each subject. And the first year I taught, I taught social studies and science, which was really fun. So I had four different classes who rotated through during the day and I got to experiment and do all kinds of cool things with them. And then my second year, I decided I wanted to learn how to teach my kids how to read because I saw kids who were struggling with it and I didn't want them to get bad grades in my classroom because they didn't know how to read, but I did know how to teach reading. Leah (15:20.643) Mm-hmm. Leah (15:41.155) Mmm. Mmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (15:42.785) And so I learned over the next two years how to do that from some amazing mentors and it was really hard. It was really hard, but I'm glad that I did it, especially as I'm a parent now and I can help my kids learn how to read. Leah (15:47.329) Wow. Yep. Leah (15:53.975) Yeah, that's amazing. I'm curious in that experience with such a wide range of children and skills, was there a time that you saw the gap between maybe who's getting opportunities and who doesn't? Did that show up in the classroom as well? Paige Hendrix Buckner (16:01.307) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (16:11.921) Yes, and there was this moment that I had. So quick context, my second year teaching the economy was really tough in Las Vegas and they have something called, I believe it's called Count Day, where they look at the number of students to teachers and they ask, know, where do we need more teachers, less teachers, whatever. And because I believe I was the newest teacher, I was the first one to go and my principal. I will forever love came with me to the event. was in tears because I loved my school so much and I didn't want to leave. It was really hard, but I got my placement and it was awesome and I was really grateful for it. And I remember talking to a couple of more experienced teachers and I was going to a school that was in a lower economic neighborhood. And I remember having this chat with one of the teachers who was like, aren't you scared to go? And it was really shocking to me to think. Leah (16:45.719) My gosh. Paige Hendrix Buckner (17:10.363) And then I later learned a lot more about this as I started to dig into education systems. But hearing that from really experienced teachers who are great, that they were afraid to go to places to teach kids was really infuriating. Like these are just kids. Yes, they live with tough circumstances every day, but they also deserve to have the best education. And it made me want to go more. And it was really, it was eye-opening. I think it was really eye-opening. Leah (17:24.995) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yep. Leah (17:34.979) Mmm. Leah (17:40.887) What did you see on the ground that most people never get to see, having that experience? Paige Hendrix Buckner (17:48.497) First, how funny my kids were. I often think about humor. They were some of the funniest and most resourceful kids I've ever met in my life. And some of my kids, for fifth graders, had some pretty dark humor and some pretty sharp wit. But also, they're like roast energy. I remember one day, I was having a really rough day, I was so tired, and one of my students ran up to me and said, hey, miss, did you realize that today is picture day? Leah (17:50.787) Hmm. Leah (18:00.897) God. That's funny. Paige Hendrix Buckner (18:17.712) I looked me up and down and then realized what he said and I realized what he said. And he like blushed and ran away. It was so funny. I think second is, many of my kids, Leah (18:20.653) My god. Leah (18:28.232) my gosh. So funny. Paige Hendrix Buckner (18:33.1) even the kids who struggled really wanted to be successful in school. And I think one of the most infuriating narratives that I've heard is kids in lower income schools, like, well, they just don't want to. No, they really want to be successful. They want to crush it. And I had this co-teacher that I loved co-teaching with, and she was a special education teacher. And there were times when we would co-teach together. Leah (18:37.411) Mm-hmm. Leah (18:45.411) Mmm... Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (18:57.806) because I had kids in my class who had IEPs. And what was really cool about that experience is that when we co-taught, she made me a better teacher and my students, all of them, regardless of their grade level, got better attention, which was really, really cool. And it was just neat to see how when you really lock into a kid's interests, it really inspires them to try something new or something previously hard. So. Leah (18:58.093) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (19:23.364) There was a group of kids in my classroom who had hit a certain milestone and my promise to them is that I would meet them at the bookstore and we would get books and coffee together because I had this whole theme around like we're books and coffee. I know it's just something I like to do and I guess they want to come to. Yeah, no coffee. Exactly. We can do other fun drinks. So we were we went and one of my kids got a WWE book and this is a kid who really struggled to read and they were Leah (19:34.243) So cute. They're like, we're 10, are we getting coffees? Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (19:52.305) crushing this book because they wanted to understand it. And it was just such a, it was fun. My kids are amazing and now they're adults and they have families and they send me messages on Instagram. That's wild. I know, but it's, it was such a privilege to be of service to the kids in that classroom and any classroom that I was in because I think teaching is one of the greatest acts of Leah (20:01.746) my gosh, my gosh. That's so adorable. Leah (20:11.085) Hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (20:20.13) learning that you can do in your life. And it's the greatest way to be helpful in your community. like I said, again, it was so great for me because it taught me so many lessons about empathy and human centered learning and design and joy. think that was another like listening to kids be joyful and hopeful even when it feels dark is a gift. Leah (20:22.615) Yeah. Leah (20:42.531) It's incredible. So how did you take those learnings and those experiences and that joy that you filled? How did that translate into what you did next? Paige Hendrix Buckner (20:52.112) Let's see, so when I finished my commitment to Teach for America, it would have been 2011, I made the decision to move to Portland, Oregon, where my husband, now husband and boyfriend was. And what I wasn't sure about was what I wanted to do. I needed a break from the classroom. I was really burnt out. And when I got to Portland, I couldn't find a job in the beginning. And that was really, really frustrating because I remember earlier, well, this Leah (21:17.783) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (21:20.922) Daughter, I need eight jobs, I can draw, relax, can do, love stability. And I usually have those things, but I just, for the first time in my life, I wasn't working on anything that was so clear and focused. I was trying to find my next thing. And my next job was actually working at the Urban League, helping families get access to healthcare for their kids. And this is back before Medicaid expansion. And so was driving or biking all over the city. Leah (21:22.187) Yeah, we like control. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. I feel you. Yeah. Leah (21:36.077) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (21:49.508) to schools and to people's households. And again, just being people-centered, was such a, in that context and helping people get access to healthcare was such a good wake-up call for me because I had never been without insurance in my entire life. I didn't understand the gap there for people and what that could do to their families and to their wealth if they didn't have access. And so it was great to connect with people and again, just be people-centered, not judgmental, just, Leah (21:52.045) Wow. Leah (22:08.609) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (22:19.425) of service and it was really, really, it was fun. It was hard. It was a really hard job because people don't always want to tell you what they need in those circumstances and you have to create space for them to be comfortable. And that was one of the biggest lessons that I learned is you have to give people space to be vulnerable so they can get access to the resources that they need for their family. Not because they don't want. Leah (22:30.039) Mmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (22:44.003) They don't need the resources, but because I think sometimes they're afraid to share with people where they really are and what they really need. And I know that because I've been in that place too. So it was great. And then while I was working there, because I like to have two jobs, I was also working at the Apple store at the same time, teaching classes, which was really, really fun. And again, that was another place where people coming in, constantly asking you questions about the devices and about how to use them, the different use cases. Leah (22:53.559) Yep, yep. Leah (23:01.367) Yes. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (23:12.483) And it was an opportunity to learn software and hardware, which is great, but then also meet all kinds of people and just help them where they were, go from point A to point B. Again, without judgment. And I do think that's why people don't always ask for help because they're afraid of being judged for the kind of help they need. Leah (23:27.459) Yeah, incredible. mean, you have this amazing background that kind of intersects education and technology, and eventually you got to make your way into the venture ecosystem. So how did that path kind of evolve into like breaking into this venture industry? Paige Hendrix Buckner (23:42.232) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (23:45.647) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (23:49.614) Yeah, so I'll fast forward a little bit. I get hired to work as a policy advisor to an elected official in Multnomah County, which is where I live. And it was such a great opportunity again to serve in a different way and to build policy with people in mind. I learned so much about county government, city government, state government. And while I was doing that, my husband, who's a software engineer and a founder said, I'm going to this thing called a startup weekend. Do you want to come? And I was like, no, I've got stuff to do. But tell me how it goes. And I'll never forget, he came back at the end of the weekend, I think I was in bed at this point, and he was like, we won. And I'm like, what do you mean you won? He's like, we got first place. He was like so jacked. And he got first place with this woman that now I'm still best friends with and has moved on to something else, but they ended up building some stuff. And he's like, you should come to the next one. So I went with him, full day work, then we go to start up weekend, pitch, and in 54 hours, we built something that I think got second place. And it was... Leah (24:23.715) Yeah. Leah (24:35.459) Wow. Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (24:46.361) thrilling. I felt the same way that he felt. And for the first time, I saw a path to solving big problems outside of the public sector. And so fast forward, started a business, I decided to quit my job, enter an incubator, got really involved in the Portland ecosystem. And it was while I was running my company working like two or three side jobs at the same time. As one does, as one does. Leah (24:47.491) Mm-hmm. Leah (24:54.089) Mm-hmm. Yep. Leah (25:07.745) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (25:12.303) and starting organizations and doing all that stuff that I got recruited to work for a company called Founder Gym out of the Bay Area. we were focused on helping underrepresented founders learn how to raise venture capital back in 2018 to 2022, founded by an amazing woman named Mandela Schumacher-Hodg-Dixon. So she brought me on as one of her early team members. And I got to learn about venture capital that way. I had tried to raise venture as a founder, but didn't really understand it. Leah (25:40.501) Okay. Yep. Paige Hendrix Buckner (25:42.455) and struggled with it. And so when I came into the Founder Gym Arena, I really dug in and I learned about it by interviewing VCs. It was fun. Leah (25:48.929) Wow. So interesting. So you're in Portland, you have your own company, you think about raising venture money, maybe you talk to some venture capitalists. What didn't you know then that you know now that you think would have made a difference? Paige Hendrix Buckner (25:55.619) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (25:59.29) Yes. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (26:08.127) the type of business that venture is actually built to back. And so I'm having all these conversations with VCs. I have no idea what I'm talking about. I have this vivid memory of pitching a VC whom I adore. Okay. And she was nice enough to give me an opportunity to pitch. And this is also on a day when we're like packing 600 packages. I've got like 10 interns that I'm managing and I'm like, okay, I got to go do this pitch. Leah, it is the most embarrassing pitch I've ever given in my life. I think back. Leah (26:12.694) Okay, yeah. Leah (26:22.883) Okay, okay. Leah (26:35.927) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (26:37.519) Because I, by the way, I didn't even know how embarrassing it was until probably two years later. It was so bad. What's your market size? I don't know, like 20 billion. Excuse me? What do you mean you don't know? That was. Leah (26:42.211) Girl I have been there too. I feel you honestly. Yeah Leah (26:52.099) you Yeah, yeah, it's a big learning curve. There's a huge learning curve. Listen, no judgment. You're the one that said no judgment. Why are we judging Young Page on this? Okay. I think that's the thing. It's like, yeah, it is. I have had those moments too. I actually had an investor stop me in the middle of a pitch. Yeah, right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (27:04.399) You're very kind. It was... Paige Hendrix Buckner (27:20.238) Mm, that's a fun feeling, isn't it? Leah (27:24.899) stop me and say, you know, can I just give you some feedback on like what order of slides you should do? And then he like gets up on the whiteboard. He like doesn't even want to hear the pitch. He just wants me to fix my deck. You know, I know so cringy. was it's but but here's the thing. Like I think pitching adventure, it is such. Paige Hendrix Buckner (27:38.391) My whole body is like tensing up. Leah (27:49.333) a black box and it doesn't feel very accessible to most people. I I had no exposure either before I started my company. So you just don't know there's a big learning curve. How did you go from there into the founder gym? Was it literally just like being recruited to come and help out this organization that really helped you bridge that gap or like, what was it? Paige Hendrix Buckner (27:52.714) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (28:16.69) So Mandela started Founder Gym and had run the first three cohorts without me. And as I recall, her story to me is that she saw a commercial that I shot. there was one holiday season, I ran a gifting business. yeah, so I ran a gifting business. It's so funny. Leah (28:28.963) wow. Can we dig up this commercial? Can we add this to the show notes? Paige Hendrix Buckner (28:36.55) I was like, I don't think I slept at all the night before. I forgot I was shooting it that day. I'm like in the bathroom. You know, we were like, I gotta put a tight bun on because it's not together. We're going tight bun, hun. And one of my teammates had this really cool videography skillset. And he was like, look, we should shoot a commercial. And I was like, okay, great. So we wrote the commercial and we made it. And we just posted it on the internet. It wasn't like, you know, we sold it to anybody or whatever. Leah (28:44.673) Yes. Yes. Yeah. Leah (28:54.467) Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (29:04.568) So what's funny is in the background, it's like complete chaos. We're in a building that kind of smells funky. It's like the holiday season. It was a little crazy. So we shot this commercial and months later, she's like, I saw your commercial. And I thought, I remember Paige from TFA. Like, I would love to have her come because I think she has some of the same skill sets that I do and she could run our cohorts. So she... Leah (29:04.578) Yeah. Leah (29:23.075) No. Paige Hendrix Buckner (29:27.832) called me and was like, we started talking. And it was funny because I'd just written out the kind of job I wanted next and everything that she brought to me was aligned with that, which was really cool. Yeah, and I definitely didn't think it was a job that existed. It was amazing. And so we, she recruited me, but she said, hey, before you decide to talk with me further, come and watch one of the sessions. And I was so impressed by what she had built already. I was so hyped by it that I, Leah (29:34.051) Okay. Wow, wow, that's amazing. Right, right. Leah (29:51.959) Okay. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (29:58.031) I wanted to join and also Mandela is, you know, really wonderful and charismatic and smart and a hard worker. And so just wanted to work with her. I was really excited and I joined the team in 2018. And when I joined, it was through the process of learning the curriculum that she'd already built and then building upon that and talking to VCs that I just realized how off base I was. And when I Leah (30:22.603) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (30:23.822) was teaching, know, and I'm running these live sessions and there was one period where I think we had three cohorts running at the same time. So we'd have like two live interviews a week and then one set of office hours. And this is before, this is like 2018, 2019. So I'd go in person and interview people and then we'd make a bunch of content out of it, which was great. As I was doing this, I made it my personal mission to help them avoid the mistakes that I had made and to use my own personal stories. Leah (30:38.861) Mm-hmm. Leah (30:49.421) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (30:53.418) ridiculousness, to help them understand, one, you can do it. And you're incredible and you're smart and you have this great lived experience and here are the skills and knowledge that you need and here's how to go build that network. And by the way, so many of the founders who came through our program were incredible and are incredible human beings. And so it was just such a gift to be part of their journey as they were building their companies. Leah (30:55.211) You Leah (31:20.109) So this is kind of your first then exposure to really the startup venture capital ecosystem. What surprised you most during these interviews of VCs? Paige Hendrix Buckner (31:33.229) I mean, I think the first surprise to me was just how consistent the lessons were across interviews. And again, we had 18 cohorts by the time that we were done. And I think every cohort had maybe six to seven experts that we would interview depending upon the cohort. And so in that one period of time where we were running three cohorts simultaneously, you're just, constantly learning from people and you're hearing the same gems. Leah (31:43.287) Wow. Paige Hendrix Buckner (32:00.396) And one story that always stuck out to me is that you have to control your narrative. And you have, you need to be the expert in your company, in your market, in your customer. And you need to surprise people with what you know that no one else knows. And I thought, what a fun, we used to joke, we're like, what are those little secrets that you have that no one else has? Leah (32:05.635) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (32:27.586) And it was fun because you get to pull it out of the founders and then they realize, I actually know way more than I thought I knew. Leah (32:34.539) Right, right. Yes. Kind of tap into like, what is their superpower to offer here? Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (32:36.814) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (32:42.136) And by the way, there are two trends that I noticed amongst our amazing co-remembers. Number one is they were not flexing on themselves nearly enough. We used to say, we had this activity, I think, about flexing a care member. It's been a few years now. But it was really fun to see people talk about their lived experience and their expertise. And I realized how many folks wanted to downplay it because they felt like they were bragging. And I'm like, no, no, no, no, but that's what makes you the right person. Leah (32:46.723) Mm-hmm. Leah (32:50.391) Mm-hmm. Leah (33:07.394) Mmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (33:11.116) you need to showcase that. And you can do it in a way that's professional. And then the second piece of it was just the incredible resilience and tenacity that they had. And despite, you getting no, told no a million and one times and all the things that they went through to build their businesses, just what they were able to accomplish, despite the fact that they were typically underfunded. Leah (33:14.785) Yeah. Leah (33:34.211) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (33:37.078) under supported, under amplified. So it was just, it was really inspiring and fun. I feel really grateful that I got to do it. Leah (33:44.195) I want to talk more about that sort of structural bias really in the system. mean, the venture capital ecosystem is certainly imperfect, right? Raising money is a process that is imperfect. But at what point did you sort of realize, there's actual structural bias here. These aren't just like little problems. This is like the way the venture ecosystem works. Paige Hendrix Buckner (34:10.733) Well, I think venture is a reflection of our greater society. We have a lot of systemic inequities and bias built into everything about our country. And I think venture capital is a place where you see it play out in this economic context that can have really big impact in a really short period of time. And so when I think about how long I've known about the inequity in our society, It's been my whole life because of my own lived experience, the lived experience of my family. And then I spent a lot of time reading about that because I was so deeply passionate about human rights. And so when I entered venture, I don't think that was a huge surprise. I would say that over and over again, you see pattern matching against the same archetype, whether it's because of, this is a white man who goes to an Ivy league school and Leah (35:05.601) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (35:06.017) were pattern matching against it over and over again. And I don't, I think that the opportunity over the last several years has been that people haven't always realized that they were doing that. And it's an opportunity to be reflective of, actually I am doing that. And there is a way to expand my aperture, which then helps me open up opportunity for my firm or for my business. And so, yeah, it was not, I don't think it was that surprising as much as Leah (35:17.112) Right. Leah (35:29.761) Yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (35:35.655) just seeing it play out in a different way in venture. Leah (35:38.807) Yeah, I think what's interesting about what you just said and was sort of a surprise to me, right, as I kind of got more immersed in the system, is there is this pattern, right, of sort of, let's call it kind of like the traditional entrepreneur that gets funded based on these patterns, right? But let's go back to the point made earlier where maybe it's not about the talent of that pattern, but it's about the proximity to power. Paige Hendrix Buckner (35:54.189) Yeah, for sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Leah (36:07.327) It's about the network. It's about the access that they've had. I think for me, became, particularly as I got on the investor side, it became clear, wow, these patterns aren't actually about talent. They're actually about network and access, which is very different. Paige Hendrix Buckner (36:07.959) Yeah, that's exactly right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. That's right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (36:29.645) Ding ding, no, I agree with you. I totally agree with you. And I think, you know, when I was looking at all of the criteria around the founders who've been most successful that people have wanted to pattern match against, there are criteria that are related to power. They're all related to power, whether it's the school that you went to or the networks. And I think that the phrase that I've heard so often recently is that we move at the speed of trust. Leah (36:30.87) Yeah. Leah (36:39.841) Yeah. Right? Leah (36:47.241) Mmm. Mmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (36:55.841) And I think in venture, you're trying to de-risk as much as possible and you're trying to make sure that you trust somebody because you're early, especially if you're an early stage investor. And so you're like, okay, I trust you because my friend knows you, we went to the same school, we have the same values. And I do think, I think power and trust can go hand in hand because that's, we started in those places or at least in this iteration of venture. Leah (36:56.063) Mm-hmm. Mm. Right. Leah (37:20.407) Yeah! Paige Hendrix Buckner (37:22.989) success and the stories of success have been rooted in those things. Leah (37:27.947) Yep, totally. So what point did you decide, I'm not just going to operate within this system, I'm actively going to try to change it? Paige Hendrix Buckner (37:38.573) Yeah, once I figured out what venture capital actually was, which is fun, realizing I had no idea what I was talking about until I really deeply got into Founder's Day and I was listening and learning, I realized that I was never going to be successful in that context, for a lot of reasons, by the way. I didn't have generational wealth. I didn't have a really successful business in the past. I come from Leah (37:42.915) Mm-hmm. Leah (37:47.436) Right? Leah (37:58.691) Mmm... Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (38:08.364) I went to a state school, which I'm really proud of. I was an educator. I don't have a background in tech. There are just all these reasons why not. So I think that there was never a time when I felt like, oh, this is mine and I'm part of it anyway. So when I finally started to understand it, I think my position was, there's so much missed opportunity. And that's how I feel still at All Raise, by the way, is there's so much opportunity here when you can expand the aperture and look out to people who have not traditionally Leah (38:30.199) Yeah. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (38:38.112) been from trusted networks or from quote unquote powerful networks. So that's the, I think that's why get excited about the role that I have now because I feel like I get to uncover something that so many of us already know, which is, wow, there's so much untapped potential and opportunity and economic upside in women and people of color and folks who come from any underrepresented background in the space. Leah (38:40.323) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Leah (39:01.527) Yeah, I mean, I think what it takes is that kind of outsider thinking, that outsider mindset. And you just went through, like, your entire life, you had these outsider moments that added up. And then you kind of get immersed into a system and you're like, wait, hold on. There's a lot of opportunity here outside this closed environment. So let's talk about what you're doing now. Paige Hendrix Buckner (39:13.174) Come on. Paige Hendrix Buckner (39:23.116) Mm-hmm. Leah (39:26.915) with all raise, okay? So I keep hearing, I don't know if this statistic has changed. You are, sure, the master of data and statistics on this, but I have heard that still only 2 % of venture dollars go to female founders. Is that true? Is it still 2 %? Has it changed at all? Paige Hendrix Buckner (39:44.31) I haven't seen the most recent stat this year, but yes, pretty low. Disappointing. Leah (39:48.355) Yeah, I mean, that's like, that is like the number that got quoted. I remember like sitting around the table with Aileen when she was like dreaming up all race with, know, Jess Lee and Emily Milton and like all these amazing OG founders. And so that was the premise. It was like 2 % of venture capital dollars goes to female founders. And it hasn't changed. Paige Hendrix Buckner (40:00.832) Yes, yes, yes, of course, yes. Yeah, yes, yes, yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (40:13.622) That's right, that's right. Leah (40:18.537) Why do you think it hasn't meaningfully changed yet? I mean, I have some ideas, but I would love to hear why you think we haven't been able to move the needle quite yet on this. Paige Hendrix Buckner (40:29.75) So from the all race perspective, just quick context. So when we first started, we were supporting investors, founders, and operators. Now we've narrowed to specifically focus on women and non-binary venture capitalists. And I'm going to come back to this 2 % data point in a second, but I want to walk through some data to answer your question. So when we first started, we wanted to double the percentage of women in decision-making roles at US-based VC firms. And we've been following Leah (40:41.603) Mm-hmm. Yes. Please. Paige Hendrix Buckner (40:57.856) the number of people in partner plus roles, because in the beginning that was a decision maker. And last year, if you look at the data, we officially hit the goal of doubling the percentage of women in partner plus roles at US-based VC firms. So from 9 % to 18%. And that's really exciting, but when you dig down a little deeper, you realize that first of all, the title of partner across venture does not mean that you have power and influence. Leah (41:19.811) Mmm. Right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (41:23.614) It doesn't indicate at all your ability to get your deals across the finish line, lead the great deals, to take the great board seats. It does not indicate that at all. And so when we come to this other question, a feeling that I had a couple of years ago, when I was talking to people, when I first joined All Raise and I was interviewing a bunch of folks about what we should be focused on, my sense was that while we were increasing the number of women in these roles, they didn't have the power to always invest in what they were interested in investing in, even if they invested in women. And that's one piece. The second piece though, and this is interesting as I've been talking to people anecdotally, is that women don't wanna be pigeonholed inside of the firm as the person who brings in women. And... Leah (41:56.493) Right, yep. Leah (42:10.069) Of yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (42:11.826) It's it's I have to tell you that was one of the toughest conversations that I see, especially founders and investors talk about during our strategy questions. And I think that's real. If you are a marginalized person and then you're one in your entire firm, you don't want to be seen as that person who's just bringing in deal flow that has to do with your identity or lived experience. So that was a really interesting insight. And Leah (42:16.173) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leah (42:29.731) Mm-hmm. Leah (42:34.551) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (42:35.23) What I think there's a couple of things. think one, when we grow power and influence for women in non-binary VCs, we have an opportunity to help grow the different kinds of deals that come to a firm. And I've heard that from people who are like, I'm the first woman in my firm and I brought in deals related to all kinds of things, but I was the first one to explain IVF to my partners and why this was such a big opportunity, right? The second piece though that I think is interesting is Leah (42:54.775) Right. Right. Right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:00.214) that by more women coming into the space, more men understood the opportunity in investing in female founders. And so I think you've seen this play out more with mixed gender teams where we have seen growth, though I know in the last few years we've seen a lot of consolidation there around repeat founders and obviously in AI. But I do think that over time it is everybody's opportunity, not just women's, to invest in female founders and non-binary founders. Leah (43:10.423) Mm-hmm. Yep. Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:27.424) And the data is good that when you invest in them, it's good for business. Leah (43:27.501) Mm-hmm. Leah (43:31.267) Yeah, absolutely. sorry. Right, right, I'm recording a podcast, buddy, okay? Do you need anything? Do you need anything, sweetie? What do you need, baby? Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:37.472) Hi little one. Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:45.708) Bye. Leah (43:47.477) Nothing? Okay, let me close the door. Love you. Okay, sorry, they're all home from school this week. Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:53.548) Please don't apologize, that's fine. yeah, is it your spring break? Leah (43:56.309) It's our spring break. yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, sorry. So, okay, I had a thought I was gonna ask you next. Okay, yeah. So I heard a stat which tracks to what you just said, Paige, that is women are twice as likely to invest in other women. And I gotta say, like for me with TaskRabbit, I saw this play out because Paige Hendrix Buckner (43:57.996) Got it, it, got it. That was two weeks ago for us. Yes. I get it. I get it. You're fine. Go ahead. Ask me everything. Leah (44:24.835) and Mira Co. led my seed round of investment. And it was her very first deal that she did at Floodgate. Isn't that interesting? Yes, her very first fund one deal was TaskRabbit. And so she invested in a few home found. So I do, I think that the data shows us that everything you just said is true, right? But there's still so much. Paige Hendrix Buckner (44:27.947) Love, Ann. Paige Hendrix Buckner (44:32.575) Know that? Paige Hendrix Buckner (44:38.859) Love, Ann. Love, Ann. Paige Hendrix Buckner (44:46.709) Yes. Yes. Leah (44:51.555) pressure and politics in navigating that system. What are your thoughts on women and non-binary folks kind of emerging as decision leaders in large traditional partnerships versus new funds being built by those people? Do you think that there's more leverage in one place or the other? Paige Hendrix Buckner (45:19.499) Well, when I think about where we have the leverage to grow the impact of women in non-binary VCs and grow their success, the first thing that I want to start with is a reminder for firms who are thinking about hiring in this time, and that is VC firms who are just 10 % more female partners have 1.5 % higher fund returns and 10 % more profitable exits. 10 % more female partners turned into 1.5 % higher fund returns. and 10 % more profitable assets. That is huge data to make decisions on because as you think about firms that want to be competitive right now, you need to have the best of the best in the seat. Having gender diversity is good for VC firms. So that's number one. So as I think about big firms first, yes. No, go, interact. Leah (45:49.388) Mmm. Mm-hmm. Yep. Leah (46:02.815) And you would think, yeah, sorry, I didn't read, but you would think that a data statistic like that would also be highly compelling to LPs, right, that invest in these firms. Are you seeing that? Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (46:14.549) Yes. Yes. Yes. And so when I talk, when I think about what's happening inside of big firms, what's exciting is I have seen movement, we have seen progress and there's more opportunity. And so, you know, it's exciting as I've seen so many women get promoted in this last couple of years, but I've also seen a lot of senior women leave the industry. And so the question we're asking ourselves is how can we help people actually put points on the board, get DPI, Leah (46:19.651) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Leah (46:27.191) Mm-hmm. Leah (46:36.504) Yeah. Mm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (46:42.283) You know, again, it leads some of the hottest deals right now so that they can be successful and get promoted and build their track record inside of those big firms. And we know a key component of their success is sponsorship. Having someone in the firm who is willing to show you the ropes and help you navigate the politics of the firm and also help you learn the business because there are many books about venture capital, but the one thing I've heard over and over again is that you have to learn the job on the job. Leah (46:42.391) Mm-hmm. Leah (47:11.811) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (47:11.849) And you're often learning from other people, your peers, people who are further ahead of you. And increasingly, as you get older, people who are on the come up, who understand trends that you don't understand anymore. So I think sponsorship inside of these firms is great. I do think LPs recognize the opportunity, but the reality is that firms need to see the opportunity themselves and they need to hear the stories and examples of firms that are winning because they have great women, great non-binary folks at the helm helping to lead. Leah (47:19.585) Yes. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (47:41.196) And I think stories are key here. Examples of success, I think, are more powerful than data points, except for that 2 % data point, which shows up everywhere. Everyone remembers it, right? As we should, because we should fix it, right? But we also, when we think about internalizing examples of success, we need to have them at big firms. And also all the women who have started their firms during this time, they're building the next generation of firms. Leah (47:42.115) Yep. Mm-hmm. Leah (47:50.039) I know, everywhere. All the time, I know. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (48:07.273) at a time when it's really hard to raise, right? So part of our job is to help them connect with really great LPs who can write them checks in this time, help them build their credibility, show their track record. And so I think in this moment, you need both, right? You need people who are growing their careers at these big firms in this moment because they do have so much capital. So we need people to be successful there. And also people who are spitting out to start their own thing. We want all of them to be successful and it's hard. Leah (48:21.175) Mm-hmm. Leah (48:35.521) Right, Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (48:36.713) to start a venture firm. So we want to make sure that they have the resources they need to be successful. Leah (48:43.383) Yeah, I I think from my perspective, that's dead on. I think it's such a huge ecosystem and it's such a huge sort of structural problem that it's just going to take a long time. There's no silver bullet here, right? Like you need all angles, all cylinders firing like at the same time. And it's just going to take a lot of time. I mean, based on your experience and what you saw to at Teach for America and other places in Portland, like how Paige Hendrix Buckner (48:50.623) Yes! Yes! Yes! Mm-mm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (49:02.165) That's right. That's right. That's right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (49:09.535) Yeah. Leah (49:12.727) do you think about turning advocacy into actual structural change? where have you seen even little bits, little pieces kind of work and stick and then set new precedents for how things are done? Paige Hendrix Buckner (49:29.727) I think Al-Ray is such a great example of how you can do this over time. And I think we have to think about the work in phases. So when you talked earlier about sitting around and seeing so many of our early community members have these conversations, look at the data, ask the questions. And what was so exciting about that time, I wasn't there, but I've read about it and heard about it, is that everybody sat down and came up with ideas and then they built it and they shipped it and they tested it. Did this work? Did this not work? Leah (49:43.583) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (49:59.531) And part of the fun actually has been going back and looking at the results. And we haven't even looked at all of them yet, right? Like what are the results of things that were built in 2017? How have they played out now? And so I'm really excited to dig into more of that over the next three years as we build up the lore of all race and what it has been and the lessons. So I think in the early days, you need to have people who really excited, who are willing to build together and collaborate across organizations and keep the momentum going. That is so hard to do. Leah (50:05.485) Yeah. Leah (50:09.613) Mm-hmm. Leah (50:28.995) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (50:29.054) right, because everybody's busy. I think also when Allways first started, there was something in the Zeitgeist, we know the Me Too movement was really spurring people on. And so there was funding that came in, there was support from other industries. And as we morphed into a nonprofit that had a leader, then handing that baton to our very first CEO, Pam, who is an incredible human being, to start to build infrastructure around that. And so I think with any change, Leah (50:50.339) Yep. Yep. Paige Hendrix Buckner (50:56.232) You need to use data to make decisions. You need to get some people in early who are willing to hear the rallying cry and be part of it, build something out and then start to codify pieces of it. And what I've learned with all reason, anything that I've done is you always have to be willing to let go of pieces of the work that are no longer working or no longer relevant. And that is also really hard to do, especially when you are in community and you want people Leah (51:03.907) Mm-hmm. Leah (51:17.101) Yep. Yep. Paige Hendrix Buckner (51:24.19) to feel like they're included. And so I do think there's a certain level of communication and diplomacy and almost, I think about the community activism, sitting down with people and hearing like, hey, how is this working? How's this not working? What can we do to support you? How could we do things differently in an improved way? And I think that's key to sustaining change over time. Leah (51:48.461) I love that. I mean, you talked a little bit about sort of that grassroots collective and where it started, you know, and then Pam came in and you've come in. Once you came in and as you kind of look forward into these next phases, what did you see that needed to evolve and how are you building on? Paige Hendrix Buckner (52:07.764) Well, first we needed to focus. We had really opened the aperture to be helpful to investors, founders and operators. And when we looked at the data, what we realized is that our biggest opportunity was to focus and to help women and non-binary venture capitalists be successful. So that was the first lesson. And I'm so grateful that we made that choice because it has allowed us to narrow and improve the quality of our offerings, which by the way has taken time. And that's, if I were to write a book about this experience, I feel like the whole book would be something like, it's gonna take longer than you think. And that's the title. It's just for entire, like my entire life, maybe. But the reason why it's taken longer, I think is a good thing. And that is that we really try to learn from our community members before we make changes in choices. And then if we make a choice, Leah (52:42.605) Yeah. Leah (52:46.435) That's the title. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Leah (52:58.339) Okay. Leah (53:03.02) Okay. Paige Hendrix Buckner (53:06.152) We go and talk to our community members about the choice that we're making to make sure that they're in the loop, even if they're not the decision maker trying to let them know that it's coming. And I've learned a lot about how to do this well and how to not do this well. And I think it's been one of the greatest lessons of my life is how to make sure that you loop people in, especially when people were part of building the organization from the beginning, they feel an important sense of ownership. Leah (53:21.08) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (53:33.49) and you want them to feel that. And so that's one big thing. And then the next piece is when we looked at the data I told you about earlier and you see the needle moving, I'll never forget when I was getting ready for my very first keynote for our first summit and I practiced with probably like 20 people, I would show them that we'd made progress against that goal to grow the number of women in partner plus roles and nobody found it inspiring. And the reason why Leah (53:51.682) Yeah. Leah (53:55.075) Okay. Leah (54:02.923) Yeah. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (54:03.153) is actually the punchline that we've gotten to now, which is a title doesn't matter if you don't have power and influence. How much capital do you really control? How much capital can you really deploy? A plus! 20 times. Yes. Girl, this is okay. I mean, I've never, it was, it was, Leah (54:08.835) Mm. Yeah. Leah (54:15.683) Right, it was almost disheartening, right? Cause it's like, look at how many and then like nothing's changed. You're like, my God, this is yeah, yeah, wow, yeah, yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (54:29.353) It was, again, like, I find comedic value. It's like seeing people's faces be like, okay, Ann-Girl. And the reason why, and I felt it last year at our summit when I shared. Leah (54:29.763) Yeah. Yeah. Leah (54:43.043) It's okay. Yeah, no, it's fine, sorry. Paige Hendrix Buckner (54:43.075) Hello. At my last, I was gonna say I'm gonna get blinded here soon. What I learned at our last summit is that people were trying to tell me for three years that just because you have a title does not mean you have power and influence. And so when I shared that on stage and I felt everybody's sigh in the room, I realized that I think we'd gotten to the heart of the matter, but that took us three years. Leah (54:59.907) Mm-hmm. Leah (55:07.775) Ugh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are non-obvious things. There's a lot of nuance here, a lot of nuance. And in fact, I mean, when you think about venture capital and the ecosystem, can you think of another example of something that everyone pretends is true, but you know is completely broken? Like I think that's actually a good example of like, once we have all of these, know, promotions done and partner roles, like, The system will change, but not really. So is there another example of something in venture capital that everyone still pretends is true? Paige Hendrix Buckner (55:49.865) That's a good question. Paige Hendrix Buckner (55:56.458) I think it's hard for me because I've spent so much time digging into this. But I would say that what I've learned over the last couple of years is how some people's storytelling ability and charisma can help them create this perception about performance. Leah (56:02.221) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (56:22.709) And there are so many women that I've talked to who shared, it's clear that I have a great track record, but I'm not getting the same level of investment from LPs as men who left my firm to start their own. I'm being told that I have to do essentially like perform twice as well to be considered just as good. Leah (56:35.095) Mm hmm. Leah (56:50.358) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (56:50.395) and not risky, and I think that's the frustrating part is hearing the same story over and over again from women who are told, okay, we'll just stick it out, just try a little bit longer when they're seeing their male peers get promoted faster than they are without a strong track record or being told, well, he really needs to pay as a family. And it's not, we're not there yet. I think that's it, right? Leah (57:06.051) Mm-hmm. Leah (57:14.147) Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (57:18.919) We've made a lot of progress and I want to make sure I say that because I feel like it can be demoralizing when you hear all these stories. We have made a lot of progress, but we have a lot of progress to make, Leah. Leah (57:25.729) Yeah, yeah. Yes, yes. And it's not an easy problem to solve. And it goes beyond building, right? And building this all raise organization, you're actually forcing a redistribution of power. And that is non-trivial, non-trivial at all. I mean, and it's at every level, every level. Finding, and I think from, Paige Hendrix Buckner (57:38.899) Yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (57:43.89) Mm-hmm. No. Paige Hendrix Buckner (57:49.938) It is. Leah (57:52.779) What I've realized is finding sort of those allies, those people that get it at every level, at the LP level, right? At the fund manager level, at the long standing decade old traditional VC level. Like you have to find people at all levels to kind of get that wedge in and get things going, but it's really, really hard because if you're redistributing power, Paige Hendrix Buckner (58:00.69) Mm-hmm. Leah (58:18.839) The people that have the power don't want it redistributed. You know, so like what's in it for them? Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (58:23.027) Yeah, and you know, it's, yeah, and this is why I keep coming back to this argument that there is so much opportunity. There's so much opportunity, there's untapped opportunity. And I think not just going back to the data that says that, but then going to the stories of when that has happened. And that is what people are exchanging with each other. There's an example that I'm trying to think of the person who shared it with me. Leah (58:31.502) Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (58:47.977) In my first year, we went on a strategy tour. We do this every time we do a strategy. We go and we have all these listening sessions. We have dinners and we have breakfast and lunch and one-on-ones and surveys to make sure that we're getting a nice cross-section of data. In my very first year, there was a founder who was also an angel investor who said to me, the phone call that you want to really change is between two investors who are saying, ooh, I just found the next blank. And you want the next blank? Leah (59:11.233) Hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (59:16.125) to be more women and non-binary people. And that was such a click for me that it is so, it's so contingent upon these stories that we tell ourselves of success, stories that you see in the press, that you see in podcasts like this, that we are all trying to pattern match against as we're thinking about, well, I want to be successful. I'm going to invest in successful people. And so I think, you know, this podcast is a good example. You are a good example of the kind of person that we should be looking for. Leah (59:18.679) Yeah. Leah (59:27.105) Yeah. Yep. Leah (59:37.187) Yeah. Leah (59:43.575) Very kind. Well, that's very kind. I can think of a lot of other examples too. Katrina Lake, Stitch Fix, right? Lynn Jurich, Sunrun, like let's go. Like so many amazing stories. Yeah. So I think like that's part of actually why I got excited to do this podcast as well as just to amplify stories that maybe weren't getting told, right? I mean, I don't know. Which do you think is harder? Building something new? Paige Hendrix Buckner (59:49.779) Same. Yeah, come on. Come on, get them out. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. That's right. Let's go. Let's go. That's right. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:00:02.204) Yeah, you're so good at this. Yeah. Yeah. Leah (01:00:11.955) or changing something that is entrenched. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:00:15.442) Changing something entrenched. Leah (01:00:19.425) Yeah. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:00:19.976) It's much harder. I think because you have people who are already committed to the way that things are and a vision for how they could be, and that might require changing hearts and minds. And I think that's really hard. Leah (01:00:33.281) Yeah, yeah. So let's take a moment and like zoom all the way out here. So when all raise succeeds, not if when, obviously, what does venture capital look like in like, I don't know, 2035? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:00:36.808) Let's do it. All the way out. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:00:49.5) Well, think venture capital looks like a place where at conferences, people mention women by their first name or non-binary people by their first name on stage and everybody knows who they're talking about. I've noticed every conference I've gone to, every major conference, that most of the people mentioned, in fact, all, I can think of maybe two examples mentioned, are all men. Leah (01:01:05.709) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:01:17.842) And we know exactly who they are. And by the way, their names are very common. So these people have so much gravity, right? Which is great for them, but what would look different is if I were able to say, and you know, everybody knows Leah, right? Like we want to do what Leah is doing. I want to see more of that. Number two, when we think about some of the greatest firms in the industry and we start listing them off, it is like a mix. Leah (01:01:23.991) Right. Yep. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:01:44.105) of women, men and non-binary folks. And it is normal that there is a mix. It is not unusual. And when I walk into a private dinner, though many of the dinners I go to have a nice gender balance. I would say walking into any conference event, it feels weird that you're the only. Most events, it's just a great mix of people and you can say, wow, that's one of the best events. And what I wasn't focused on was being the only person in the room. Leah (01:02:05.431) Mm. Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:02:14.024) who represents my gender or my race or ethnicity because it's such a great mix of folks. Leah (01:02:20.065) Yeah, I love when I go to a conference and there's just no line to use the ladies room. That's something we will have to give up. It'll be a sacrifice. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:02:25.926) Leah, I'm not gonna lie, this is one thing. And I always comment. Listen, for the good of progress, we will. Totally, it's gonna be huge sacrifice, but I know I'm gonna get to see, you know, in the public markets, women leading the way, in the private markets, women leading the way. And I'm excited to see the innovation that comes as a result of incredible women and non-binary folks. Leah (01:02:38.125) Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:02:52.572) seeing solutions that otherwise might've been missed because they have the experience to spot the opportunity. Leah (01:02:56.781) Yeah. Leah (01:03:00.407) What's one belief in venture that you think is going to look absurd in the next 10 years? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:03:10.088) that AI is the only conversation we have. Leah (01:03:12.995) Yeah, that's probably true. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:03:16.242) The robots have won at this point, it's normal. I mean, it's funny, was listening to a podcast yesterday and they were like, okay, well now we're gonna talk about everything. And every conference is the same, well now we're gonna talk about the thing, everybody's talking about AI. So I'm just wondering what the next thing is once we get through this phase. Hopefully it's positive, Leah. I'm leaning on the, that's what I'm working on, Leah. Yeah. Leah (01:03:35.267) Yeah. Leah (01:03:39.127) I'm always an optimist. think you have to be. You just got to be as an entrepreneur. don't know. Yeah. Always glass half full. Always. Absolutely. So you've had just this amazing career arc. Is there a difference between what you felt like success looked like at 22 to what you feel like success looks like today? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:03:44.36) Leah, you and I, 100%, we're trying to control things and we are activists. 100%, yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:03:57.874) Thanks for your time. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:04:05.64) Yes, today success looks like to me that the vision and mission of our work, I feel like I've carried the baton. And there isn't a title, there's not an amount of pay, there's not like being named on a list or anything like that. It's a feeling of fulfillment that I have helped move the needle a little bit while I've been in the seat, as long as I'll be in the seat. I think to me, success looks like now Leah (01:04:15.949) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:04:34.926) supporting my incredible team. I was just telling one of my teammates today, it is my dream to have my team say, when I look back at my time at All Raise With You, wow, you really had a big impact on me as a leader and I feel like you helped me grow and it helped me step into this new role. And I think success looks like more fun in my life. Leah (01:04:48.695) Mm-hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:05:03.298) And when I was 22, I don't think I was having enough fun. think I was maybe working a lot going to school. I mean, I was making time to be a clown and laugh and whatever, but I definitely see the resilience that you have when you can be joyful. And I want my kids to see that too. And I really like spending time with my husband and my friends and my family. And so. Leah (01:05:10.435) Yeah, yes. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:05:31.24) I think when I was 22, I thought there was a title I was striving for. I thought there was a list I was supposed to be on. thought, you know, there's a certain amount of money I'm supposed to be making. I thought my friends would be impressed with what I was doing. And now that has changed. That has changed. Leah (01:05:46.113) Yeah, yeah. All right, one last question, and it's a big one. What is a precedent in your own life you had to break first before you could even think about breaking all these precedents for everyone else in this venture ecosystem that you're tackling? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:06:09.029) I needed to lean into my creativity. And a long time ago when I was a kid, I shut that off and really tried to focus on being this very academic, it almost feels like, you know, business-like and professional person. And I've gotten into a phase of my life where I realized that it is just so excited to get out. And... Leah (01:06:18.669) Hmm. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:06:35.451) I need to lean into that side as well. And not just my version of success has always looked very different than where I am now. And I'm so happy that I am, but I had to change and realize that being creative is part of my success. It is not something that I hide and bring out after work. And so that's, mean, even now saying that out loud, I'm getting used to it still. It's pretty new. Leah (01:07:02.519) I love it. I love that. I think that is so, powerful, so powerful and so beautiful. Yes. It's so great. It's so, you've heard it here first. is super creative and she is going to unleash it on the world. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:07:07.879) Thanks, Leah. Oh, thanks. I'm really excited about it, but also nervous. right. I have been worried. did definitely, I had a friend who asked me, where do you get your creativity from? And I was like, what are you talking about? I'm not creative. I am, and I'm really excited to learn. Yeah. Leah (01:07:32.973) But you are, but you are. I love it. Well, Paige, this has been so wonderful. You are absolutely incredible. Your energy is so contagious and so inspiring. And I want to thank you as someone who has literally been in the industry for 20 years, first as a founder and now as a venture capitalist. Like the work you are doing is so important. I am so grateful. You have my support always. And I'm just such a big fan of yours. So thank you so much. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:07:40.647) Thanks, yeah. you're too kind. Thank you. Thanks. Thank you. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:07:51.047) See ya. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:08:02.513) I feel the same way about you, Leah. And I don't think I told you this, but TaskRabbit helped me with my first business in a way that I can't explain. And actually the TaskRabbit I worked with ended up acquiring my business. that's a whole other podcast that I just wanted to celebrate. Long before I met you and even when you shared this podcast, I've been so inspired by you as a leader and it's such an honor to talk with you here. Leah (01:08:08.292) my god, really? Leah (01:08:14.625) That feels like a whole other podcast. Wow. Leah (01:08:23.746) Yeah. Leah (01:08:29.367) So sweet, well thank you. Is there anything that we didn't cover that you want to go back and edit in and cover? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:08:32.199) Thank you. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:08:37.988) I don't think so. I think my answer on the 2 % was probably not as crisp as it could have been. Happy to redo that? To be tighter? Did you feel like it was okay? Leah (01:08:46.751) Yeah, no, I thought it was honest and realistic. mean, it's just like, I think you were explaining the whole system. So yeah, no, I thought that was great. No, and what's brilliant about Ben is he will cut this into clips and then the clips perform really well, right? On social media and YouTube and everything. So I don't know, I just like. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:08:52.977) Okay, good. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:09:03.91) He bend. Thanks, Ben. Great. Great. Leah (01:09:13.741) People, sure, maybe some people do the long form podcasts, but we're finding that a lot of the content is getting engaged with in these shorter clips. So we'll clip it all up anyway. Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:09:17.201) Yeah. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:09:22.919) tiny pieces, okay. Sounds good, sounds good. Yeah, think I was funny. was like, I think there's a new number after the 2 % and I forgot to look that up today. So I didn't wanna, yeah, so. That's great. That sounds good to me. I was like, yeah, haven't, sometimes I'm a little too honest. I'm like, let me tell you what's inside my head right now. I haven't actually looked today. like, didn't ask you that. Leah (01:09:31.605) It's okay. We're sticking with 2%. That's what I heard. Leah (01:09:41.027) Yeah. It's all good. It's all good. All good. Now I thought it was great. So we will, we'll let you and Elise know when we have this teed up. Actually, I can look real quick actually here. it's right here. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:09:53.829) Okay, great. Yeah, take your time. Is there anything else you wanted me to say that you're like, wish you would have said this? Leah (01:10:01.187) Dude, is this little dude in the camera? Ben, was Stevie in the shot? I don't know. How long have you been there? With that door open. I just came in. You just came in. Okay, good. Oh, God. We're gonna release this on 5-14. Okay, good. It's a different one. 5-14, so just like in another month. Another four weeks or so. Yeah, yeah, great. Okay, good. Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:10:06.983) What do think, Ben? Paige Hendrix Buckner (01:10:14.055) I love your child. Okay, great, great, great, 514, perfect. Sounds great. Sounds great. Leah (01:10:29.175) Yeah, I think that's everything. Thank you so much. You were amazing.