Latest / The Well / Building Relationships - Resolve Conflict With Adult Children | Dr. Kathy Koch

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Building Relationships - Resolve Conflict With Adult Children | Dr. Kathy Koch · The Well

• 0:00
  S1: We are parents, but we don't parent as a verb
• 0:03
  S1: unless we're invited to do so. So what do we do?
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  S1: We guide, coach, cheer, mentor, counsel, help. We're present. And
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  S1: you keep your mouth shut. And you listen and you
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  S1: pray and it's hard.
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  S2: Welcome to Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman, author of
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  S2: the New York Times best seller, The Five Love Languages.
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  S2: And if you're having conflict with an adult child. Author
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  S2: and speaker Doctor Kathy Cook wants to come alongside with
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  S2: some encouragement today. If you go to our website, Building relationships.us,
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  S2: you'll see Doctor Cook's book Resolve Conflict and Find peace
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  S2: and Hope with adult children strategies and conversations that work.
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  S2: Just go to building relationships.us. Gary. When we open the
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  S2: listener line for questions from parents, this is right at
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  S2: the top, isn't it?
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  S3: It is Chris and I've seen a lot in my
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  S3: office as well. You know, just the conflicts between parents
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  S3: and their adult children. And it involves all sorts of things.
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  S3: So I am really excited about our conversation today and
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  S3: talking with Doctor Cooke about her book on that topic.
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  S2: If you go to building relationships.us, you'll see our featured
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  S2: resource resolve conflict and find peace and hope with adult children.
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  S2: Doctor Cathy Cooke is founder and president of Celebrate Kids Incorporated.
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  S2: She's written several best selling parent child enrichment books such
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  S2: as Screens and Teens, eight Great Smarts and Resilient Kids,
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  S2: among others. She earned a PhD in Reading and Educational
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  S2: Psychology from Purdue University. Find out more about her and
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  S2: her resource at Building relationships.us.
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  S3: Well, Doctor Cooke, welcome back to Building Relationships.
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  S1: Thank you so much, Doctor Chapman. It's great to be here.
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  S3: Your ministry is dedicated to helping children and the parents
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  S3: who love them become who they were uniquely created to be.
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  S3: But this resource is a little different. Why did you
• 1:56
  S3: want to tackle this topic?
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  S1: Yeah, thanks for asking that question, Gary. Part of it
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  S1: is what I've seen in culture, which is what, you know,
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  S1: you and Chris have seen just how many parents are
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  S1: struggling with decisions adult children are making. How many adult
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  S1: children I've spoken with who are frustrated with their parents
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  S1: and disrespect and other issues. And so I wondered if
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  S1: I could speak into it. You know, I've written for
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  S1: 21 years and I know like you're a prolific author.
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  S1: So impressive what the Lord has given you to do.
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  S1: So I've been an author for 21 years, which means
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  S1: that my audience has grown up. So the people who
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  S1: started following me when they had young children now still
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  S1: follow me and have older people. And you know what?
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  S1: I come from a multi-generational, beautiful family. I grew up
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  S1: kitty corner from my grandparents, and my dad cut a
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  S1: hole in the fence, and my brother and I could walk,
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  S1: you know, back and forth. I was about four blocks
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  S1: from my other grandparents. I went to church with aunts
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  S1: and uncles. I played, I went to school with my cousins.
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  S1: I come from a multi-generational, solid family, and I know
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  S1: it matters. God ordained the family and he's grieving over this,
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  S1: and enough people had approached me to say, you know, Kathy,
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  S1: I think that you have something to say here. And
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  S1: I tackled it. And I'm so grateful for people like
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  S1: you who allow me to be influential on, on your show.
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  S1: So thank you for your support.
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  S3: Do you think that there's more of a problem with
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  S3: this situation, adult children today than in previous generations?
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  S1: You know I do. Although I wonder if we well,
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  S1: like we obviously know more about it now because of
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  S1: social media, right? And we have these 24 hour a day,
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  S1: quote unquote, news stations that tell us about all the
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  S1: brokenness that's in the world. So, you know, I do
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  S1: think that there's been family dysfunction since, you know, Cain
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  S1: and Abel, if you will. Um, so it's not, it's
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  S1: not surprising, but is it, is it more frequently? I
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  S1: think so I don't think it's as frequent as the
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  S1: media suggests, though. So, you know, people who are listening
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  S1: and they have good relationships with their, uh, family, like
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  S1: praise God, don't be looking for trouble. Don't be thinking that,
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  S1: you know, you probably have some trouble under the mat
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  S1: that you're not aware of. That might not be true.
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  S1: You actually might have a beautiful, really healthy give and
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  S1: take supportive family. So yes, it's there, but I don't
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  S1: think it's as big as the media.
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  S3: Yeah. Yeah. Are there different levels of fractured relationships between
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  S3: parents and adult children?
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  S1: I do think so. I've met people who have totally
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  S1: cut off all contact, and they mean it, and they
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  S1: have good reasons for doing that. And they're very clear
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  S1: on that. And then there are others who will have
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  S1: maybe a boundary. You know, you can text and call,
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  S1: but don't stop over or there'll be people who, you know,
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  S1: holiday only kind of like the the church attenders who
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  S1: go only on the holiday. There's family, people who only
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  S1: go on the holiday, if you will. And so all
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  S1: kinds of changes. There are some where the parents cut
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  S1: it off, and there are some where the adult children
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  S1: cut it off. There are some times where the grandchildren
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  S1: are the ones who are making decisions because of the
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  S1: way that they feel about things. So I think it
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  S1: is different. And I and again, it makes it complex, right?
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  S1: But it's all relational. It's all your expertise.
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  S3: Yeah, well, you say that parents will always be parents.
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  S3: That's their noun. But the problem comes when we get
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  S3: the nouns and the verbs mixed up. Can you explain that?
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  S1: Yes. This is actually chapter one. Like I started in
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  S1: this very bold place where parents will always be a noun.
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  S1: Child will always be the noun of a child. But
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  S1: we don't parent as a verb, adult children unless we're
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  S1: asked to adult children. One of the things they told
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  S1: me over and over again was how much disrespect they
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  S1: feel from parents who are still trying to parent them.
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  S1: When the adult child believes that he or she doesn't
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  S1: need to be parented. Now, the parent might be looking
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  S1: at and going, oh, you are. You're still a work
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  S1: in progress, just like you need help. But you know,
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  S1: that adult child is thinking, no, you know, I'm 18
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  S1: or I'm 21 or I'm 23 and married and you know,
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  S1: you need you need to leave me alone. So we
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  S1: our parents, but we don't parent as a verb unless
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  S1: we're invited to do so. So what do we do?
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  S1: We guide Coach. Cheer. Mentor. Council. Help! We're available. We're present.
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  S1: And we have insight because we're wise. There's wisdom in
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  S1: this older generation. You guys have lived a long life,
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  S1: and it's killing you to not share something with one
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  S1: of your kids or in-laws that you think is really relevant,
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  S1: but you wait and you have an insight and maybe
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  S1: you say, hey, I've got something that might be relevant,
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  S1: let me know if you'd like me to share it.
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  S1: And if they say not yet, you, you honor that
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  S1: and you keep your mouth shut and you listen and
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  S1: you pray and it's hard.
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  S2: I think that is part of the the power of
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  S2: this book, Doctor Kathy. And that is not that it's
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  S2: going to solve all your problems. It's not the bibbidi
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  S2: bobbidi boo, you know, to, to wave over the wand
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  S2: of your relationships with your adult kids or the children,
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  S2: adult children waving it over their parents to get them
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  S2: to understand what I think the power is, is that
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  S2: the person who feels like they're all alone. They're the
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  S2: only one in the world with this situation. They are
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  S2: not alone when they read what you've written here. What
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  S2: do you think?
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  S1: Oh, thanks for saying that. Right. You know, the devil
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  S1: wants us to isolate, and it's hard. Like some of
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  S1: some of the people listening today, they haven't been able
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  S1: to tell, you know, their own, you know, maybe brother
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  S1: or sister or their parents, if their parents are still alive,
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  S1: that they've got an adult child who's choosing to separate.
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  S1: Like it's awkward, it feels embarrassing, it feels like there's
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  S1: shame and blame. And maybe we don't tell a life
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  S1: group or a Sunday school class or a prayer circle.
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  S1: And we do have to be careful. Their adult children
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  S1: have told me that they feel like prayer time is
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  S1: gossip time. So we have to be really careful who
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  S1: we share with. But we certainly should not be living
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  S1: this out alone. And so again, thanks for having me
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  S1: on the show. I pray that we make a difference
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  S1: today to just bring this to light.
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  S3: Cathy, let's address the topic Chris talked about earlier. And
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  S3: that is the adult child's perspective. What's going through the
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  S3: mind of the son or daughter who feel the need
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  S3: to get some distance between themselves and their parents.
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  S1: Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. You know what? They
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  S1: want to grow up. They want to mature. They and
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  S1: maybe we should say finally, like some of you know,
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  S1: some of these adult children we've raised have maybe been,
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  S1: you know, lazy and disrespectful for a season. Hard to
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  S1: reach or whatever. But now they're realizing they have a
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  S1: need to mature and need to grow up. And they
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  S1: need respect. It's easier. Here's the thing. I think for
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  S1: some of them, Doctor Chapman, it's easier for them to
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  S1: separate from their parents than to feel like they've disappointed
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  S1: their parents daily.
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  S3: Mhm.
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  S1: The pressure that they're feeling, so many of our adult
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  S1: children feel like they've been performing for their parents. I
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  S1: actually addressed in chapter one of my book, The Very
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  S1: Dangerous Reality, that some parents are idolizing their children and grandchildren, which,
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  S1: you know, were created to worship. We're supposed to worship God.
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  S1: But there are parents who worship their children. And what happens?
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  S1: That means that, you know, if a child has a
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  S1: good day, they have a good day. And if their
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  S1: child has a bad day, they have a bad day.
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  S1: And some of our adult children have felt that pressure
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  S1: for years. And they've told me I'd rather cut off
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  S1: all connection to my parents than to stay in relationship
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  S1: and only hear what I've done wrong, or believe that
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  S1: I continue to disappoint my dad and the choices that
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  S1: I'm making. So it's very awkward, but I think that's
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  S1: some of what's going on.
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  S3: Yeah. Do you think that moms or dads tend to
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  S3: do this more often, or is it equal?
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  S1: Yeah, I'd be interested in what you think of that
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  S1: in your work. I think moms, moms tend to be
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  S1: more emotionally invested with their kids of all ages. They
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  S1: often define themselves as mom. They talk about their mom role. They,
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  S1: you know, live through their children's successes. And I mean,
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  S1: praise God for invested moms. I'm not saying they shouldn't
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  S1: be that, but I think often it's the heartache of
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  S1: the mom. The mom probably has had more dreams about
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  S1: rocking the grandbaby and going out for coffee with the
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  S1: daughter or the daughter in law as their friends. As adults,
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  S1: they've probably dreamt those dreams more than the dads have.
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  S1: But the dads are hurt too. And the dads sometimes
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  S1: the dads, they've been the ones that have been helpers, right?
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  S1: Like they've changed the oil in their daughter's car or
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  S1: they've taught a son how to, you know, change a tire.
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  S1: Those are classic stereotypes. But the dad has sometimes been
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  S1: more involved in some practical things, even, you know, financial
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  S1: literacy or advice about which apartment to sign a lease for.
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  S1: So I think sometimes the dad misses that role of
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  S1: support when it comes to practical help. The mom often
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  S1: misses just that heart to heart kind of conversations. It's hard.
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  S3: Yeah, yeah, that whole thing of criticism or pushing a child.
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  S3: I'll never forget the young man who came to me.
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  S3: He had just finished med school and he said to me,
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  S3: I'm not going to do a residency because I've never
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  S3: wanted to be a doctor. My father pushed me to
• 11:01
  S3: be a doctor, and I felt exactly like you just felt,
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  S3: you know? Yes, man. And I'm sure his father meant well,
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  S3: you know, and he wanted to see his son succeed.
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  S3: And he thought being a doctor was, you know, the
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  S3: road for that. But it was not his son's desire
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  S3: at all. And so, you know, obviously there's a fractured
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  S3: relationship after that.
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  S1: You know, it's interesting. If I can just interject, I
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  S1: think what you just pointed out is really important. Parents
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  S1: will often look at me like, like, where did this
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  S1: come from? Like I thought our relationship was perfect. So
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  S1: they're reinventing the past. Now children have also reinvented the past.
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  S1: Often they have a negative script. Parents are also doing that, though.
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  S1: Parents are like, we've always gotten along just great. Like,
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  S1: what's the problem? That's not true. There were conflicts when
• 11:47
  S1: their kids were 17 and 18 years old. They're just
• 11:49
  S1: choosing not to remember that, or this kind of example
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  S1: where the child felt in order to please the dad
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  S1: to be loved by the dad, the child had to
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  S1: do what dad wanted him to do. The dad didn't
• 12:00
  S1: realize that that was going on. Never really intended that
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  S1: at a, at a real level of understanding. But I
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  S1: think it's good for us to look back and wonder, okay, wait,
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  S1: are there some things we're responsible for that have caused
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  S1: our children to doubt the kind of love that we
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  S1: have for them? Let's own that. Let's apologize if we
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  S1: need to, and let's see if we can, you know,
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  S1: repair something that truly is broken. I think, I mean,
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  S1: I wrote chapter two is really hard. Chapter two is about,
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  S1: you know, your responsibility. I've had people say they wanted
• 12:29
  S1: to skip the chapter, but they knew they couldn't because
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  S1: it's chapter two, like on purpose.
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  S3: Yeah. Yeah. Well, I'm assuming that when there are conflicts
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  S3: with adult children, that moms and dads often handle that
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  S3: conflict in a different way. Have you found that true?
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  S3: And if so, what would be some of those differences?
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  S1: Uh, the mom can be more demanding and more emotionally whining.
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  S1: I've seen this happen, and this is what some adult
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  S1: children have told me that the mom has a harder time,
• 13:01
  S1: you know, not texting or not calling or, you know,
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  S1: the mom, you know, drops off cookies even though she
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  S1: was told not to. As an example, I think dads
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  S1: might have an easier time of putting it into a
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  S1: compartment and locking it away and just realizing, hey, you know,
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  S1: that I was a dad and I loved being a dad.
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  S1: I'm still a dad. That's still my noun. But at
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  S1: least for this season, I'm not going to invest. I'm
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  S1: not going to push. I think I think based on
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  S1: what I've seen, moms have more of a tendency to
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  S1: push and dads have an easier time maybe letting go,
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  S1: or maybe they look like they're letting go and they're
• 13:35
  S1: more private with their pain.
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  S3: Yeah, yeah. What about when adult children have children? What
• 13:43
  S3: are the dynamics that come into play there. What are
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  S3: what are some of the common challenges for parents when
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  S3: that happens?
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  S1: It's so hard, right? If the if the children are
• 13:54
  S1: not raising the grandchildren the way that you want them raised,
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  S1: it's so hard. And so like, you just need to
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  S1: be quiet. Like if you're the grandparent, you know, you're
• 14:02
  S1: not the parent. Like, write that down. Like, you know,
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  S1: when you get out of here, you know, you're stopping
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  S1: by the house, you've been invited for dinner or it's
• 14:09
  S1: a holiday, you need to, you need to repeat ten
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  S1: times in the car. I am not the parent. I
• 14:14
  S1: am not the parent. I get to be the grandparent. And,
• 14:17
  S1: you know, it's it's some of that is none of
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  S1: your business. And this is where, oh, this is hard.
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  S1: But you know what? Different is different. Different isn't always bad. So,
• 14:27
  S1: you know, your kids might let your kids eat pizza.
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  S1: You never did. You might let your, your, your kids
• 14:32
  S1: might let the grandkids, you know, stay up late and
• 14:34
  S1: have a, have a movie night. And you think that's terrible?
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  S1: Why is it terrible? Just because you didn't do it
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  S1: doesn't make it wrong or bad, especially if it's not
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  S1: a school night and the movie is healthy. ET cetera.
• 14:44
  S1: ET cetera. So I think I think grandparents need to
• 14:48
  S1: be quiet. Grandparents need to point out what's going well to,
• 14:53
  S1: to affirm your children and your, the, you know, the, the,
• 14:57
  S1: the spouses of your children affirm them and say, hey, man,
• 15:00
  S1: Betsy looks so joyful. I love you must be like,
• 15:03
  S1: you must be her security. Look at how she trusts you. Man,
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  S1: that inspires me. Or, you know, let your son and
• 15:09
  S1: daughter in law know that you've noticed that your kids are,
• 15:13
  S1: you know, content and secure or, I don't know, they
• 15:17
  S1: they go to bed easily without whining, like compliment your
• 15:19
  S1: kids for that. I think we need to look at
• 15:22
  S1: what's good. I think we observe and we ask questions.
• 15:25
  S1: You know why? Help me understand why you've gone organic only.
• 15:28
  S1: I know there's this whole section in the grocery store now,
• 15:30
  S1: and I've never taken the time to figure it out.
• 15:32
  S1: Why are you a believer in organic only? Like, ask
• 15:35
  S1: the question before we assume that they're doing something that's wrong.
• 15:38
  S1: I could go on and on with that. Um, it's it's,
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  S1: you just have to keep. You have to keep your
• 15:44
  S1: mouth shut at times because some of it isn't your business.
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  S1: And I really mean that.
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  S3: Yeah, I think another thing I run into, not necessarily
• 15:52
  S3: with with the grandchildren, but a couple who marries and
• 15:56
  S3: they live in the same town with their parents, and
• 15:59
  S3: the parents just drop in without letting them know when
• 16:02
  S3: they're coming. And I remember this one young man who
• 16:05
  S3: said one night, for example, he, my wife and I
• 16:08
  S3: decided we were going to have a really nice romantic
• 16:11
  S3: night together.
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  S4: Uh oh.
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  S3: Just about before we just barely getting off the ground
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  S3: and the and the doorbell rings and that's my mom
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  S3: and dad, you know? Yeah. So, you know, treating them
• 16:24
  S3: like we would treat other people to call and see
• 16:26
  S3: if this would be a good time to come over.
• 16:29
  S3: It would be a certainly a wise thing to do. Right.
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  S1: Oh, that's exactly right. Because we don't do that to friends.
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  S1: I can't I think it's extremely rare that we would
• 16:39
  S1: drop by on friends without letting them know and asking
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  S1: if this is a convenient time. So no, this is
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  S1: what adults should do. They feel disrespected. They feel like
• 16:47
  S1: we don't understand that they have a life. You know,
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  S1: some some adult kids have said to me, you know,
• 16:52
  S1: Doctor Kathy, I don't want them to be in my business.
• 16:55
  S1: I want them to be aware of my business, but
• 16:58
  S1: not in my business. But when they stop by without
• 17:01
  S1: asking if it's a good time, it's just it's just pushy.
• 17:05
  S1: And it's just, it just doesn't make us feel safe
• 17:07
  S1: with them. So it's hard. But again, we've got to
• 17:10
  S1: consider that they have a life. And I'm going to
• 17:13
  S1: say something pretty bold here, Doctor Chapman and that is that.
• 17:16
  S1: I don't know about you, but I see those social
• 17:18
  S1: media posts about little kids and the mom is like,
• 17:21
  S1: stop growing up. And I'm just screaming at my at
• 17:24
  S1: my device. Did not did you not know this would happen? Like,
• 17:27
  S1: did you not realize that they were going to grow
• 17:30
  S1: up and you can't stop it? And haven't you moms
• 17:34
  S1: and dads prayed that they would have an abundant life?
• 17:37
  S1: Haven't you prayed that they would launch well, that they
• 17:40
  S1: would find meaningful careers, that they would live on purpose,
• 17:44
  S1: that they would engage with the things that they that
• 17:46
  S1: matter to them. Like, haven't you prayed for this? So
• 17:49
  S1: why are you in the way? Because you've chosen not
• 17:52
  S1: to have your own life. Oh, that sounds painful. Oh dear.
• 17:55
  S1: I don't want anyone to stop listening. But, you know, seriously,
• 17:58
  S1: sometimes the parent needs to decide to make some changes.
• 18:04
  S1: I hope that comes across okay.
• 18:05
  S3: Yeah. I hope parents are listening.
• 18:09
  S5: Thank you.
• 18:11
  S3: Uh, you mentioned you mentioned this earlier, but could you
• 18:15
  S3: talk more about social media and the instant information that
• 18:19
  S3: we have today and how that affects, uh, resolving conflict
• 18:23
  S3: with our adult children?
• 18:25
  S1: Yeah, that's an interesting question. I love that social media
• 18:29
  S1: is a reason that adult children are distancing themselves from
• 18:33
  S1: their family. They've been following people we don't know they're following.
• 18:36
  S1: They've been misled by. I think The liar is loud
• 18:39
  S1: and much of social media, and it's really dangerous. And
• 18:42
  S1: you're right about instant information. They don't think they need
• 18:44
  S1: us anymore. You know, when I was a kid, I
• 18:47
  S1: had to leave my bedroom and go find my dad.
• 18:49
  S1: And when I became an adult kid and I moved away,
• 18:51
  S1: I still reached out to my dad for a variety
• 18:54
  S1: of things and my mom for other things. Now our
• 18:57
  S1: young adults are asking, you know, AI for information because
• 19:00
  S1: they it's efficient, it's quick, it's easy, it's private. Nobody
• 19:04
  S1: has to know that. I've just googled an answer to
• 19:06
  S1: this particular question, if you will. So it's really dangerous.
• 19:10
  S1: And it teaches kids that they, they, it teaches kids
• 19:13
  S1: to believe that they don't need anybody. They don't need siblings.
• 19:16
  S1: They don't need grandparents. They don't need parents. Um, and that's,
• 19:19
  S1: that's really dangerous. So many opinions out there, right? But
• 19:22
  S1: we haven't taught our adult children to discern which opinion
• 19:25
  S1: to follow. Like, if I have a biblical worldview, I
• 19:28
  S1: should be paying attention to people who also have a
• 19:30
  S1: biblical worldview. But when I go to AI and I
• 19:34
  S1: ask questions, unless I research who's giving me the answer,
• 19:37
  S1: I don't have a clue if that answer came from
• 19:39
  S1: anybody who has values similar to mine. And I'd love
• 19:42
  S1: to tell children that AI is. It's a liberally programmed
• 19:45
  S1: computer who doesn't know you, love you, or know or
• 19:46
  S1: love your God. So you have to be really careful.
• 19:49
  S3: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:50
  S2: What about the flip side of that? Doctor Kathy and
• 19:53
  S2: the grandparents who see all of their friends having these
• 19:57
  S2: wonderful relationships with their grandkids, taking a fishing, going to,
• 20:01
  S2: you know, watching a movie with popcorn and the grandparents
• 20:05
  S2: look at that. And, and they long for that. That
• 20:09
  S2: accentuates the, the loss in their own life, doesn't it?
• 20:14
  S1: It does. They can become jealous and resentful and more
• 20:17
  S1: bitter when they see that. And this is here's what
• 20:19
  S1: I would say. Find someone in your church and take
• 20:22
  S1: them to a movie. I know it's not the same.
• 20:24
  S1: I understand that you grieve and there's a whole chapter
• 20:28
  S1: on grief. You grieve the loss of your adult children
• 20:31
  S1: and their children, and you dreamt of movies and ice
• 20:35
  S1: cream sundaes and all of that. But how many people
• 20:37
  S1: in our churches are lacking family? There are children in
• 20:40
  S1: your churches who don't have people in the grandparent age group,
• 20:43
  S1: either because they're deceased. They're on the other side of
• 20:45
  S1: the country, or they can't be trusted because they don't
• 20:47
  S1: have a biblical worldview. And the adult children have chosen
• 20:50
  S1: to not let their grandchildren be majorly influenced by that.
• 20:54
  S1: But could you go to them? Could you ask a
• 20:56
  S1: children's pastor or youth pastor, hey, who do you know
• 20:59
  S1: in like the 13 year old age range who could
• 21:01
  S1: benefit from a mentor of my age? And then you
• 21:04
  S1: ask permission to, to get a phone number of an
• 21:06
  S1: adult and you say, hey, could could we invite you
• 21:08
  S1: guys over for Mother's Day? Because we understand you don't
• 21:10
  S1: have a mother in town. We'd love to invite you
• 21:12
  S1: over on Mother's Day or, you know, does your is
• 21:14
  S1: your kid a piano player? I love playing the piano
• 21:18
  S1: and I loved all my piano recitals. Could I go
• 21:19
  S1: to your kid's piano recital and be like the surrogate grandmother?
• 21:23
  S1: I mean, like, come on. And I think this is
• 21:25
  S1: where some of our heartache then diminishes because we're investing
• 21:29
  S1: and we're loving because the thing is, you guys, the
• 21:32
  S1: love hasn't stopped. You are created to love. And your
• 21:35
  S1: dream was to love your family and you can still
• 21:37
  S1: love your family even though you're not with your family.
• 21:40
  S1: But now you can pour out your love to your
• 21:43
  S1: neighbor and to a community group, and to an agency
• 21:46
  S1: in town that needs the type of service that you
• 21:48
  S1: could provide and families in your church.
• 21:52
  S2: Doctor Cathy, one of the things you point out in
• 21:54
  S2: the book is the family dynamic of a marriage. The
• 21:58
  S2: son or daughter gets married and that spouse is seen
• 22:03
  S2: then by the the parents as bringing, you know, it's
• 22:09
  S2: her fault or it's his.
• 22:10
  S4: Fault.
• 22:10
  S2: Or she must, you know, talk about that dynamic.
• 22:13
  S4: It is hard.
• 22:14
  S1: Sometimes. It is the person your child married who chooses
• 22:17
  S1: to separate for any number of reasons. Often that's not
• 22:20
  S1: the case, but sometimes it is. But you know, we're
• 22:23
  S1: going to struggle when our kids marry. We want them married. Perhaps. Again,
• 22:26
  S1: you've prayed for the spouse, you celebrated the marriage and
• 22:28
  S1: all of that, but you didn't realize how much you'd
• 22:30
  S1: miss your kids like they used to live with you.
• 22:33
  S1: You used to serve their favorite meal every Sunday noon,
• 22:36
  S1: you know. And you did movie night and board game night,
• 22:38
  S1: and you ran errands with them, and you celebrated all
• 22:41
  S1: of their college achievements or whatever. And now they're married
• 22:44
  S1: and maybe they live in town, maybe they don't, but
• 22:46
  S1: it's hard because you miss them. So you got to grieve.
• 22:49
  S1: You've just got to grieve. It's so important. You've got
• 22:51
  S1: to assume that the one they married isn't necessarily a
• 22:54
  S1: horrible person. Um, look for what you have in common.
• 22:57
  S1: Talk about traditions like, you know, we're a Christmas Eve.
• 23:01
  S1: Open the present family. Are you a Christmas morning family,
• 23:05
  S1: or are you also a Christmas Eve family? How are
• 23:06
  S1: we going to do that? You know, how important is
• 23:08
  S1: Easter dinner? You know, what about, you know, summer vacations?
• 23:11
  S1: Could we do that together? And you talk about that
• 23:14
  S1: and you look for the good. Always, always, gentlemen, you
• 23:17
  S1: look for the good. What do we have in common
• 23:20
  S1: and what is good about this relationship? And what is
• 23:22
  S1: it that we can talk about, where we'll have quick
• 23:25
  S1: agreement so that we don't necessarily have a silent supper
• 23:29
  S1: or a dinner that's full of discord.
• 23:32
  S2: So you're going for an open, honest, communicating relationship together
• 23:39
  S2: that you build on rather than one that you know
• 23:42
  S2: just happens, right?
• 23:44
  S1: Wouldn't that be the dream? But you know, that's only
• 23:46
  S1: possible if we decide we don't have to be right
• 23:49
  S1: all the time. Like, come on, we don't have to
• 23:51
  S1: be right all the time. And we can choose to
• 23:54
  S1: agree to disagree. And we can choose to talk about
• 23:57
  S1: only some things and we can share our marriage victories.
• 24:00
  S1: And we can ask about in the last month, where
• 24:03
  S1: have you just known and just been? How have you
• 24:05
  S1: been renewed in your love for each other? Like ask
• 24:07
  S1: different questions. And I think it could be profoundly beautiful.
• 24:13
  S2: You're listening to the Building Relationships with Doctor Gary Chapman podcast.
• 24:17
  S2: You can find more simple ways to strengthen your relationships
• 24:21
  S2: at building relationships.us. Our featured resource today is Doctor Kathy
• 24:25
  S2: Cook's book, Resolve Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with
• 24:29
  S2: Adult Children. You can find out more right there at
• 24:32
  S2: Building relationships.us or go to five love languages.com.
• 24:40
  S3: Doctor cook, The title of your book involves the words
• 24:42
  S3: resolve conflict between parents and their adult children. But when
• 24:48
  S3: you say resolve, does that mean that all the conflict
• 24:52
  S3: is going to go away? If you can just do one, two, three, four, five.
• 24:56
  S1: Like, did I write a miracle book? Is that what
• 24:58
  S1: you're asking? Wouldn't that wouldn't that be great? No, that's
• 25:03
  S1: really not what I mean. And I love your question.
• 25:06
  S1: I think, though, that if we if we communicate the
• 25:09
  S1: way that I recommend, if we understand, again, the perspective
• 25:12
  S1: of the other people in our dynamic, if we, you know,
• 25:15
  S1: choose to love well, et cetera. ET cetera. We can
• 25:18
  S1: agree to disagree. We can learn to relate. So there
• 25:22
  S1: are fewer conflicts going forward. We can put conflict behind
• 25:26
  S1: us and just recognize, hey, we're never going to see
• 25:28
  S1: eye to eye on this issue. So let's just rest
• 25:31
  S1: that issue, at least for now. And we develop a perspective,
• 25:35
  S1: we develop a respect and a love. And I think
• 25:37
  S1: it makes new conflict less likely.
• 25:40
  S3: Yeah. How do you know as a parent, if you're
• 25:43
  S3: making progress in the relationship with your adult children? Or
• 25:47
  S3: are there some signs?
• 25:49
  S1: Mhm. I think so. Um, they would reach out to
• 25:52
  S1: us rather than us always having to reach out to
• 25:54
  S1: them and they would reach out to us for, um,
• 25:58
  S1: every day. Nonsense. A friend of mine has had a
• 26:01
  S1: difficult relationship with an adult child who's married and just
• 26:03
  S1: told me this past week that all of a sudden
• 26:06
  S1: her daughter is starting to call just because she's in
• 26:08
  S1: the car and has a moment to talk, that there's
• 26:10
  S1: nothing significant to necessarily communicate. It's just the kind of
• 26:14
  S1: stuff that you communicate, you know, because you care about
• 26:17
  S1: the other person's perspective or whatever. So I think when
• 26:20
  S1: they reach out to us, it's a good sign when
• 26:22
  S1: we reach out to them and they don't reject us.
• 26:24
  S1: Of course, that's a good sign. Less anxiety, less stress.
• 26:28
  S1: I know of some parents who are stressed the entire
• 26:31
  S1: morning before they're going to meet a child for lunch,
• 26:35
  S1: because they're just so afraid that it might not go well.
• 26:38
  S1: So feel the less stress, feel less anxiety, and praise
• 26:42
  S1: the Lord for that and recognize that progress is made.
• 26:44
  S1: One of the problems I think we have in general, relationally,
• 26:47
  S1: is that we don't look for small growth. We expect
• 26:52
  S1: the major miracle. And so we're always frustrated. No. If
• 26:55
  S1: you look for small growth, more eye contact, longer answers
• 27:00
  S1: to your questions rather than grunts, you know, if you
• 27:03
  S1: look for small growth and celebrate that you might get
• 27:06
  S1: more growth and you'll feel better and the kid will
• 27:09
  S1: feel better because you're feeling better about them. It's a
• 27:11
  S1: win win.
• 27:11
  S5: Yeah.
• 27:12
  S3: Yeah. You know, Cathy, one of the things I faced
• 27:16
  S3: in my office for the last few years, more than ever,
• 27:19
  S3: is when adult children are walking away from their faith
• 27:23
  S3: in Christ.
• 27:24
  S1: Mhm. Mhm.
• 27:25
  S3: So what encouragement do you give for parents whose adult
• 27:28
  S3: children are in fact sharing with them that no, I
• 27:33
  S3: no longer believe in God or I no longer believe
• 27:35
  S3: in whatever you know.
• 27:36
  S1: Right, right, right. Whole chapter on that. Because again, this
• 27:40
  S1: is this is the key, right? This is what we
• 27:42
  S1: should be grieving about more than anything else. I do
• 27:45
  S1: talk about, again, looking for small growth and expecting it.
• 27:48
  S1: I think we need to pray specifics. And I think
• 27:52
  S1: one of the things that we pray for them is
• 27:54
  S1: that God will surround them with Christians. Because you know what, Gary?
• 27:57
  S1: We might not be the ones that win them back.
• 28:00
  S1: And it's not about us. It can't be about us.
• 28:02
  S1: If you think that you have to be the one
• 28:04
  S1: to say the right thing to get your son back
• 28:06
  S1: into church, then again, you're idolizing yourself and you put
• 28:09
  S1: your hope in yourself rather than in God. And I
• 28:11
  S1: don't say that lightly. It happens all the time, and
• 28:13
  S1: I get that. But it's not about us. So I
• 28:16
  S1: think we pray that they'll be surrounded by Christians who
• 28:19
  S1: will be able to live a Christian life in front
• 28:22
  S1: of them, and even surprise your adult child. Go, wait,
• 28:24
  S1: you're a Christian, you know? And then they realize, okay,
• 28:27
  S1: some Christians are really nice or whatever. And then, um,
• 28:30
  S1: here's here's another thing, Doctor Chapman. I think we need
• 28:33
  S1: to be more concerned about winning them to Jesus than
• 28:36
  S1: winning them to the church.
• 28:37
  S5: Mhm.
• 28:38
  S1: The the majority of questions that I hear is, how
• 28:40
  S1: do I get my kid back into church? And I
• 28:42
  S1: know church matters. My church is very important to me,
• 28:45
  S1: my pastor, my people, my fellowship. Very, very important. Um,
• 28:48
  S1: and yet I want, I want these adult children to
• 28:52
  S1: care again about Jesus, to care again about the God
• 28:55
  S1: who created them and who loves them, you know, more
• 28:58
  S1: deeply than we ever could. So and it's possible. Doctor Chapman,
• 29:02
  S1: that there are adult children who have walked away from
• 29:04
  S1: something they never actually had.
• 29:06
  S5: Yeah.
• 29:07
  S1: And that I don't say that lightly, but where, again,
• 29:09
  S1: they pretended to have a relationship, they they were religious.
• 29:13
  S1: I was religious until the age of 19. I looked
• 29:15
  S1: like such a good little good girl. I was a
• 29:18
  S1: religious person and then praised God for Jesus. So I
• 29:21
  S1: think we pray them into Jesus, and we pray that
• 29:24
  S1: they would desire more of Jesus that they would turn
• 29:28
  S1: to the God of the Bible and his hope and
• 29:30
  S1: his strength and his wisdom and his love. On the
• 29:33
  S1: days when they're struggling, rather than turning to social media
• 29:36
  S1: and turning to something they're addicted to. I think those
• 29:39
  S1: those things really matter. And we also need to live
• 29:41
  S1: a vibrant life before them if we are in relationship
• 29:45
  S1: with them and still available to the conversation and the
• 29:47
  S1: occasional get together. Then we talk about the Jesus we love,
• 29:51
  S1: and we demonstrate unconditional love, and we talk about the
• 29:55
  S1: hope that we get from the God of the Bible
• 29:57
  S1: without apology because our testimony is not wrong.
• 30:00
  S2: Gary, let me turn that question to you because, you know,
• 30:04
  S2: there are a lot of parents who say, uh, train
• 30:06
  S2: up a child in the way they should go. Well,
• 30:08
  S2: I did that. You know, I did my part. God,
• 30:10
  S2: why didn't you show up here? What do you say
• 30:13
  S2: to the parent who is really struggling with, you know,
• 30:17
  S2: that that faith choice that their child has made?
• 30:20
  S3: Yeah. Well, you know, Chris, one of the things I've
• 30:23
  S3: said is when you look at the prodigal son in
• 30:27
  S3: the New Testament who left, you know, took his money
• 30:30
  S3: and left and lived a life of riotous away from
• 30:32
  S3: God and family. The father did not go out and
• 30:36
  S3: try to bring him back.
• 30:38
  S5: Right.
• 30:38
  S3: The father kept the farm going so that when God
• 30:42
  S3: brought his son to the hog pen and he realized
• 30:46
  S3: I'd be better off working on the farm than out
• 30:48
  S3: here feeding somebody else's hogs, he went home, you know.
• 30:53
  S3: And so I think we have to recognize we pray
• 30:56
  S3: for them, and we ask God. We're not asking him
• 30:59
  S3: to bring them to the hog pen. But but often
• 31:03
  S3: that's what it takes. You know, but we're we're praying
• 31:06
  S3: for God to work in their hearts. And we certainly
• 31:08
  S3: want to be available and reaching out to them if
• 31:10
  S3: we have if we have information on how to contact them.
• 31:14
  S3: But I think we have to recognize that God is
• 31:17
  S3: the one who brings people either back to himself or
• 31:21
  S3: to himself. Because as you said, Kathy, sometimes they really
• 31:26
  S3: don't know Christ and they've just walked away from religion. Uh,
• 31:29
  S3: so but whatever. God is the one that touches hearts
• 31:32
  S3: and draws them to himself. And so I, that's one
• 31:35
  S3: of the things I've encouraged couples to, I mean, you know,
• 31:37
  S3: parents to do. Yeah.
• 31:38
  S2: Yeah. And it follows along with what you just said, Kathy.
• 31:41
  S2: It's not, you know, the prodigal son came to himself.
• 31:45
  S2: I love that the scripture, he kind of woke up,
• 31:48
  S2: but it was himself. It's the not the parent pressing
• 31:52
  S2: the nerve or yelling or sending him texts to the
• 31:57
  S2: to the hog pen. The parent has to have that
• 32:00
  S2: confidence that God, in his wisdom and sovereignty and timing,
• 32:05
  S2: is going to do something in that child's life. Right?
• 32:09
  S5: Mhm.
• 32:10
  S1: Yes. And and, you know, he doesn't always work the
• 32:13
  S1: way that we would like him to. Hello. He's God,
• 32:16
  S1: he gets to make these decisions. But that doesn't mean
• 32:18
  S1: that we don't have hope that he will. We don't
• 32:21
  S1: question the fact that he loves them. We don't question
• 32:23
  S1: the fact that he would love to protect them. But again,
• 32:25
  S1: we have free will and sin is a real thing.
• 32:28
  S1: And we have to recognize that.
• 32:31
  S3: Yeah. A man said to me not long ago, he said,
• 32:34
  S3: Doug Chapman For four years I've had no contact with
• 32:37
  S3: my adult daughter. She refuses to answer phones. You know,
• 32:41
  S3: she cut me off from all contact. And he said,
• 32:45
  S3: I've been praying, you know, that God would just work
• 32:47
  S3: in her heart. And he said, last week I got
• 32:50
  S3: a phone call and she said, dad, I'd like to
• 32:54
  S3: I'd like to come home and visit with you. Would
• 32:56
  S3: that be okay? He said, certainly, honey, I would love
• 32:59
  S3: for you to come home. And he said the conversation
• 33:02
  S3: we had there, man, he said, that's what I've longed
• 33:05
  S3: for all these years. But you know, it was God
• 33:07
  S3: that worked in her heart. It wasn't the father, you know,
• 33:10
  S3: pounding her over the head with, you know, that kind
• 33:13
  S3: of pressure.
• 33:13
  S1: Amen. Amen. Mhm. Beautiful.
• 33:17
  S3: Doctor cook, you mentioned earlier the value of communication and
• 33:21
  S3: communication patterns. Uh, but, but talk with us a little
• 33:25
  S3: more about that because I think a lot of parents,
• 33:28
  S3: they know how to talk, but they don't know how
• 33:31
  S3: to listen and other factors. So talk, talk a little
• 33:36
  S3: more about the whole thing about healthy communication.
• 33:39
  S1: Yes, I would love to. And of course, you're you're
• 33:41
  S1: an expert here. Um, we've got to listen to understand.
• 33:45
  S1: We don't listen for our turn to talk. We don't
• 33:48
  S1: listen to judge, we listen to understand. And that means
• 33:54
  S1: that we listen longer. We let them tell their whole story.
• 33:57
  S1: We question in a way that is not feeling intrusive
• 34:02
  S1: or dismissive, but genuine, you know, help me understand. Um. Hey.
• 34:07
  S1: Keep talking. Tell me more about that. Well, what do
• 34:10
  S1: you want to know? Well, I want to understand you,
• 34:13
  S1: so I just. I need more information. So listen to understand.
• 34:16
  S1: It will it will go far for you. They will
• 34:18
  S1: feel respect in that. Um, and I love the idea
• 34:22
  S1: and I know you do too, of I language versus
• 34:24
  S1: you language. So I feel disappointed when you never follow through.
• 34:29
  S1: Don't use never because never and always are never true.
• 34:32
  S1: I just said never. Um, but you know, so, um,
• 34:36
  S1: I feel disappointed when you don't follow through or I
• 34:40
  S1: feel dismissed when you just appear to not have time
• 34:45
  S1: for me versus you never have time for me when you,
• 34:50
  S1: when you use a you statement, you know, you disappoint me. Whoa.
• 34:53
  S1: That that's judgment. And that is going to cause them
• 34:56
  S1: to kind of back away and rise up and disagree
• 35:00
  S1: with you. But you have a right to your feelings, right?
• 35:03
  S1: You have a right to being disappointed. Like, I am
• 35:07
  S1: so sorry that our relationship isn't what it could be versus,
• 35:12
  S1: you know, because of your choices. Our relationship is terrible.
• 35:16
  S1: So I language practice that in front of the mirror
• 35:18
  S1: because it's not always the, the natural way to communicate,
• 35:21
  S1: but it can be a real blessing to people. And then, um,
• 35:25
  S1: I'll say one other thing. Doctor Chapman And that is
• 35:28
  S1: this idea that we have a story that we tell ourselves.
• 35:31
  S1: So let's say, for instance, that you've invited your child
• 35:34
  S1: over to dinner. She lives, she lives in town and
• 35:36
  S1: you've invited her over three different nights of the week
• 35:38
  S1: for three weeks in a row. And she always says no.
• 35:41
  S1: And then you ask again and she says, no. And
• 35:43
  S1: now you could say to her, the story that I'm
• 35:46
  S1: telling myself is that I'm not important to you. See,
• 35:50
  S1: we tell ourselves a story, right? And that might not
• 35:52
  S1: be true. The story that I'm telling myself is that
• 35:56
  S1: I'm not important to you, or the story that I'm
• 35:59
  S1: telling myself is that everybody else is more important than
• 36:01
  S1: I am. And then your daughter goes, oh, no, that's
• 36:04
  S1: not true. I'm just legitimately busy. Oh, well, what are
• 36:07
  S1: you doing on all of those nights? I mean, you
• 36:09
  S1: could ask that question and maybe you don't know that
• 36:12
  S1: your daughter has signed up for a committee at work,
• 36:14
  S1: and they're having to work outside of normal hours or
• 36:16
  S1: whatever the case may be. But the story that I'm
• 36:18
  S1: telling myself, It's really interesting. And you guys think about that.
• 36:22
  S1: So let's say that, you know, I don't know, again,
• 36:25
  S1: the example of or maybe you've offered to help out
• 36:27
  S1: with the grandkids and they never accept your help. No,
• 36:30
  S1: I don't need, you know, I've got a different babysitter. No,
• 36:33
  S1: it's really okay. And then the story that I'm telling
• 36:35
  S1: myself is that you don't trust me with your children,
• 36:39
  S1: or the story that I'm telling myself is that I've
• 36:42
  S1: done something to cause you to doubt my ability to
• 36:45
  S1: take care of the kids. Is that true? Well, no. Okay.
• 36:52
  S1: So then can I help out tomorrow night? Well, no,
• 36:54
  S1: we don't need you. Well, see, that's why I'm telling
• 36:56
  S1: myself the story that you don't trust me. And I
• 36:59
  S1: must have done something. That language can be very powerful.
• 37:04
  S1: It doesn't sound as judgmental, and it's a fascinating way
• 37:08
  S1: to look at it. I'd love to know, Doctor Chapman,
• 37:11
  S1: what you think of that. Would you agree that that
• 37:13
  S1: can be profitable? I'm kind of putting you on the spot.
• 37:16
  S3: Well it's very interesting. Yeah. I don't know that I've
• 37:18
  S3: thought of it that way before, to be honest with you.
• 37:21
  S3: Interesting story I'm telling myself is because that's rather than
• 37:25
  S3: just saying, you make me feel this way or you.
• 37:27
  S5: Do.
• 37:28
  S3: This. Yeah. No, I like that idea.
• 37:31
  S1: Cool.
• 37:32
  S3: Well, let's talk a minute about the whole political world,
• 37:36
  S3: because today we have lots of disagreement when it comes
• 37:40
  S3: to this area of life. So what if your adult
• 37:43
  S3: children are going to vote a different way from the
• 37:47
  S3: way you vote, and they share that with you? Uh,
• 37:51
  S3: how are you going to respond? How do you handle that?
• 37:53
  S1: Well, I think you should be honored that they trust
• 37:55
  S1: you with that information.
• 37:57
  S5: Mhm.
• 37:58
  S1: So I think maybe the first words out of your
• 38:00
  S1: mouth are, man, thanks for letting me know that. And
• 38:02
  S1: we can be. Let's be sad before we're mad. Like,
• 38:05
  S1: if you really believe that they're a believer and they're
• 38:07
  S1: not voting biblical values, let's be sad before we're mad.
• 38:11
  S1: And you don't have to say that to them, but
• 38:14
  S1: you could if you feel like you have the relationship
• 38:16
  S1: where they would hear that. I think often we don't
• 38:19
  S1: need to talk about it like it's frustrating, right? Because
• 38:22
  S1: they cancel our vote. This is what's so real.
• 38:24
  S5: You know, I'm.
• 38:25
  S1: Going to vote for this candidate. They're going to vote
• 38:27
  S1: for that candidate. Why are we bothering to vote? Like
• 38:29
  S1: that's what's so frustrating. But here's what I want to
• 38:31
  S1: really point out to people. We can agree to disagree.
• 38:34
  S1: And but if you're listening today and you have younger children,
• 38:37
  S1: teach them why you vote the way you vote. Like
• 38:40
  S1: I have met so many parents who have admitted to
• 38:43
  S1: me they've never taught their children why they give to
• 38:47
  S1: the organizations they give to, why they're pro-life, why they're this,
• 38:51
  S1: and why they're that, and why they vote this platform
• 38:53
  S1: and not that platform. Why do we expect that our
• 38:56
  S1: adult children, having grown up with us, will vote the
• 38:59
  S1: way that we vote? If we don't talk with them
• 39:02
  S1: about why we have the values that we have now,
• 39:04
  S1: some families have done a beautiful job of that. Praise
• 39:06
  S1: the Lord. But other parents have looked at me and go, oh,
• 39:09
  S1: you're right. Like we've gone through the motions, like we
• 39:12
  S1: go to the poll. Maybe we even took them when
• 39:14
  S1: they were little because we wanted them to know that
• 39:16
  S1: voting matters. It's like a really beautiful thing that we
• 39:18
  S1: have in America. But have I ever sat down with
• 39:21
  S1: my preteens and my teens and looked at the platforms
• 39:24
  S1: of this candidate and that candidate and talked about why
• 39:26
  S1: we would vote for one versus the other. And if
• 39:29
  S1: I went to a meeting with this candidate, what question
• 39:31
  S1: might I want to ask to find out what she believes? Like,
• 39:35
  S1: I don't think we've done a good job of teaching
• 39:37
  S1: our kids, and this is why they feel like we
• 39:40
  S1: shouldn't just be mad at them. And gentlemen, I don't
• 39:43
  S1: say that lightly, but I want. I want people to
• 39:46
  S1: understand that the difference is different. It doesn't mean that
• 39:50
  S1: they're terrible people, that they're voting for a different candidate.
• 39:53
  S1: They might be confused and deceived, and they're believing somebody
• 39:56
  S1: else's perspective. That doesn't necessarily make them terrible people. But
• 40:01
  S1: that's something we have to choose to believe.
• 40:03
  S3: Yeah, I think there are families that have just stopped
• 40:05
  S3: talking about politics because they know it gets hot. Yeah
• 40:10
  S3: they do. But you're I think you're right. We need
• 40:13
  S3: to be doing that when they're teenagers, helping them understand
• 40:16
  S3: what various ideas that are being discussed and so forth.
• 40:20
  S3: So yeah, very. Thank you. Good.
• 40:22
  S5: Yeah. Cool.
• 40:24
  S3: Okay. Now we know that there are adult children who
• 40:27
  S3: eventually just cut themselves off from all contact with their parents.
• 40:31
  S3: I mentioned an example of that earlier. Is that a
• 40:34
  S3: bad thing? And why do sometimes adult children do that?
• 40:39
  S5: Wow.
• 40:39
  S1: Is it a bad thing? Um, unless there's real abuse. Yes.
• 40:43
  S1: I mean, I think again, God ordains the family before
• 40:46
  S1: he ordains the church. We're perfectly imperfect for each other.
• 40:50
  S1: We're perfectly imperfect parents for perfectly imperfect children, and the
• 40:56
  S1: family matters generationally. And so I do think that in
• 41:00
  S1: in a perfect world, and we don't live in a
• 41:01
  S1: perfect world, we would not need to distance ourselves from
• 41:05
  S1: any blood relative. So is it a bad thing? Yes,
• 41:08
  S1: unless there's been real abuse. And gentlemen, we all know
• 41:12
  S1: there's real abuse in some dysfunctional families, and for the
• 41:15
  S1: emotional safety and even the spiritual safety of some adult
• 41:19
  S1: children they've they've chosen to distance. Now, some of them
• 41:23
  S1: are being given really horrible advice by counselors. Um, you know,
• 41:27
  S1: you and I both work with the American Association of
• 41:29
  S1: Christian Counselors. You know, the three of us care deeply
• 41:32
  S1: about biblical truth. And we would we would counsel that way.
• 41:35
  S1: But if our adult children are seeing a therapist, a counselor,
• 41:39
  S1: a mental health coach, a life coach, and that person
• 41:42
  S1: does not share a believer, um, belief system, if you will,
• 41:46
  S1: they're going to counsel them badly. And there are some
• 41:49
  S1: counselors that said, oh, you don't need parents anymore, you know,
• 41:51
  S1: 24 years old. Why do you care what your dad thinks?
• 41:53
  S1: And it's motivating to many adult children to walk away,
• 41:56
  S1: which is tragic. I, as I told you already on
• 41:59
  S1: the show, sometimes they've had bad relationships with their parents
• 42:03
  S1: in the past. You know, they were 16, 17 years old.
• 42:05
  S1: They were rebellious. They felt like their parents were too
• 42:07
  S1: strict or they resented they were raised in a Christian school.
• 42:11
  S1: They made me go to a Christian school. They expose
• 42:13
  S1: me to all of this nonsense. This is a story
• 42:16
  S1: that they're reinventing. They're telling themselves a new story. They
• 42:20
  S1: didn't resent it when they were kids. They loved their
• 42:22
  S1: Christian school education. They loved that it was a generous,
• 42:25
  S1: safe and good place to be. But now they're hanging
• 42:29
  S1: out with people like, oh, you were so protected. You
• 42:31
  S1: were so privatized. Like, what? Did your parents not trust
• 42:34
  S1: you in the public schools? What were they thinking? And
• 42:37
  S1: so they reinvent the story, which is really hard and truly,
• 42:41
  S1: like I said before, there are some adult children who
• 42:43
  S1: do not want to keep disappointing their parents. It's too
• 42:46
  S1: much stress, too much pressure. So they'd rather cut themselves
• 42:49
  S1: off than be in communication with somebody who's continually disappointed.
• 42:54
  S1: And I don't say that lightly, but I do know
• 42:56
  S1: that that's true. And I'll mention one other thing, and
• 42:59
  S1: this is interesting. You know, a lot of our parents
• 43:02
  S1: have helicoptered their kids, right? They were over parented. So
• 43:07
  S1: and being a helicopter parent or a bulldozer parent, that
• 43:09
  S1: usually means that, you know, you're the one that says, hey,
• 43:11
  S1: don't spill the juice. And you're the one who said, hey,
• 43:14
  S1: soccer tryouts are Saturday. Do you want to go in
• 43:16
  S1: the backyard and kick the ball around like you're helping
• 43:18
  S1: your kids? You meant it as good help. Now, many
• 43:21
  S1: parents who over parent did it because they wanted to
• 43:24
  S1: look good. You got to decide if I'm speaking truth
• 43:27
  S1: to you or not. But now what's happened is those
• 43:31
  S1: children who were helicoptered, who were over parented don't want
• 43:35
  S1: to be over parented anymore. They want to grow up.
• 43:38
  S1: They have to learn how to make decisions, and they
• 43:41
  S1: have to deal with the consequences of the decisions they make,
• 43:44
  S1: and they know that. But if we keep being in
• 43:47
  S1: their business over protecting, then they believe they won't have
• 43:50
  S1: that chance to mature, which is what they actually want.
• 43:53
  S1: And what they've said to me is, Kathy, I don't
• 43:55
  S1: think my mom can be any other kind of a
• 43:57
  S1: mom except an overinvolved mom. So I have to separate.
• 44:02
  S1: So if you're listening to us today and you're like, oh,
• 44:05
  S1: I was a helicopter mom, first of all, we're not
• 44:07
  S1: judging you. You were the best that you knew how
• 44:08
  S1: to be in the moment. No shame or blame here
• 44:10
  S1: at all. Just realize that if you were overparenting and
• 44:15
  S1: your motives were good, and you have an adult child
• 44:18
  S1: who's distancing themselves from you, it could be that they
• 44:21
  S1: don't know if you can back away. And what you
• 44:23
  S1: could do is have a conversation. Man, I heard this
• 44:25
  S1: radio interview and they were talking about the fact that
• 44:28
  S1: parents who over parented have maybe caused the adult children
• 44:32
  S1: to think that they're going to keep being in their business.
• 44:35
  S1: And son, if I've done that to you, I am
• 44:36
  S1: so sorry. I get it now. Why you have said,
• 44:39
  S1: you know, could you please stop calling every night? I
• 44:42
  S1: am so sorry. Like my love has compelled me to
• 44:45
  S1: be so involved. But I get it now. And if
• 44:47
  S1: you'll give me some grace and space, I'm going to
• 44:49
  S1: really try to learn how to how to back off.
• 44:52
  S1: Like that would be an amazing conversation. And I think
• 44:54
  S1: in some cases it would work.
• 44:55
  S3: Yeah, absolutely. Well, Doctor Cook, the last chapter of your
• 44:59
  S3: book is speaking to the whole issue of Hope, because
• 45:04
  S3: we know many of those parents are just struggling. They
• 45:06
  S3: feel frustrated. They feel angry about their the relationship with
• 45:10
  S3: their adult children. So let's close our program with just
• 45:12
  S3: a few words about hope that you that you share
• 45:15
  S3: in that last chapter.
• 45:17
  S1: Yeah. Thank you so much. We have to put our
• 45:19
  S1: hope in God, not in ourselves and not in our children.
• 45:23
  S1: We can't place our hope in our adult kids and
• 45:26
  S1: hope they turn around. We can't put our hope in
• 45:28
  S1: ourselves because we're we're imperfect and we only know what
• 45:32
  S1: we know. But to hope in God, look back. Has
• 45:35
  S1: he been faithful to you? Has he loved you in
• 45:38
  S1: your adult children well through life? Has he been there
• 45:42
  S1: in a time of need? Has his strength, you know,
• 45:45
  S1: been available to you? Has his wisdom changed you, etc.?
• 45:48
  S1: So know the God of the Bible and know that
• 45:51
  S1: he is worthy of all hope. And so you pray
• 45:54
  S1: to him and with your children's names, and you ask
• 45:58
  S1: him to show up and be their everything. Yeah, it
• 46:01
  S1: can't be us.
• 46:03
  S3: Well, that's a great place to bring a conclusion to
• 46:05
  S3: our discussion today, because our hope really is in God.
• 46:09
  S3: So thank you for being with us today and God
• 46:11
  S3: bless you for the time and energy you've invested in
• 46:13
  S3: this book. I think it's going to help a lot
• 46:16
  S3: of people. So thank you again for what you're doing.
• 46:19
  S1: Thank you so much.
• 46:20
  S2: The title, again of Doctor Kathy Cook's book is Resolve,
• 46:23
  S2: Conflict and Find Peace and Hope with Adult Children. We
• 46:27
  S2: have it linked at the website building relationships.us. Again, go
• 46:31
  S2: to building relationships.us.
• 46:34
  S3: And next week, a fictional couple named Rick and Jane
• 46:38
  S3: learn to communicate in marriage.
• 46:41
  S2: See Rick and Jane, learn to listen and talk in
• 46:44
  S2: one week. Our thanks to Janice Backing and Steve Wick
• 46:47
  S2: for their work behind the scenes building relationships with Doctor
• 46:50
  S2: Gary Chapman's, a production of Moody Radio in association with
• 46:53
  S2: Moody Publishers, a Ministry of Moody Bible Institute. Thanks for listening.