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I Didn’t Know Who I Was with Francesca Raoelison · The Trauma Therapist

0:00
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma River's podcast. My name is Guymiferson,
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Speaker 1: and I interview incredible people who share the story of
0:07
Speaker 1: how trauma has shaped their lives. And a big thank
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Speaker 1: you for sponsoring today's episode goes to my guest and
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Speaker 1: our sponsors. So five, four, three, two and one, our folks,
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Speaker 1: welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to have as
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Speaker 1: my guest today. Francisca Ravel Listen. Francesca welcome.
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Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Guy, you are welcome.
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Speaker 1: Francisca has spoken at Brown University, Harvard Princeton, UNISEF, the
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Speaker 1: Preventing Child Abuse in America Conference, and the Clinton Global
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Speaker 1: Initiative addressing the global crisis of emotional trauma among youth.
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Speaker 1: She is a founder of AMINA, survivor led movement dedicated
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Speaker 1: to educating and mobilizing young people to identify an end
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Speaker 1: emotional abuse. Active in thirteen countries with three hundred fifteen
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Speaker 1: educators and ambassadors, OMINA has reached more than one point
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Speaker 1: five million people through online campaigns. As Malagasci Survivor herself,
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Speaker 1: Francesca brings a powerful perspective on breaking cycles. A venture
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Speaker 1: generational trauma, beginning in her home country of Madagascar.
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Speaker 2: Damn girl, I didn't know you had that intro with you.
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Speaker 1: I was like you kind of going on, Francisca before
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Speaker 1: we could go in here, share with the listeners where
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Speaker 1: you're from originally, where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Yes, well, thank you again for having me. It's a pleasure.
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Speaker 2: So I'm Francesca, I'm original for Medagascar and I'm currently
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Speaker 2: in Providence, Rhode Island, USA.
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Speaker 1: Okay, how does this start for you? How does all
1:47
Speaker 1: this start for you?
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Speaker 2: Well, it starts in my home country, Medagascar. That's where
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Speaker 2: I grew up all my life and I came to
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Speaker 2: the US almost ten years ago now to study psychology.
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Speaker 2: But it started in Madagascar. And in terms of wanting
2:05
Speaker 2: to do something about what I experienced, which was verbal,
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Speaker 2: emotional and psychological violence, I didn't know what it was
2:13
Speaker 2: back then, and it was yes, it was within the
2:18
Speaker 2: it's not just within It started within the family, but
2:21
Speaker 2: because it's a psycho, I experienced it in my friendship,
2:24
Speaker 2: in my romantic relationships. But back then I didn't realize
2:29
Speaker 2: that at all, because I didn't have the language to
2:31
Speaker 2: even recognize what verbal emotional and psychological violence looked like.
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Speaker 2: The only forms of violence and abuse that I could
2:39
Speaker 2: recognize were physical and sexual. And of course, how.
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Speaker 1: Old are we talking started how old are you talking.
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Speaker 2: In terms of experiencing it or what you mean? Yes,
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Speaker 2: I experienced in it very young. It's also just as
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Speaker 2: a context back in Medagascards, it's very normal to see
3:03
Speaker 2: parents yelling at their children or couples fighting if you
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Speaker 2: walk down the street, and for me, experiencing that personally,
3:13
Speaker 2: but also seeing that in the community led me to
3:17
Speaker 2: believe that it was normal. So you feel it feels
3:20
Speaker 2: uncomfortable when you see that, but you don't know that
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Speaker 2: it's wrong until I learned. I was trained as a
3:27
Speaker 2: sexual assault period cater later on, I was already in
3:31
Speaker 2: my twenties and I was trained about all the forms
3:35
Speaker 2: of violence, and that's where I could finally see the
3:38
Speaker 2: signs and all of the different forms. And that's where
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Speaker 2: I was like, oh, my gosh, this is something that
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Speaker 2: I experienced growing up, but I didn't have the words
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Speaker 2: for it, and I was not the only one. So
3:48
Speaker 2: what happened is that I went through that the training
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Speaker 2: that opened my eyes.
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Speaker 1: Interrupt for the Yes, how do you get from yeah,
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Speaker 1: being a kid going through this experience and saying to yourself.
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Speaker 1: I want to become a pair support.
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Speaker 2: So I grew up not knowing what it was. I
4:12
Speaker 2: thought that I was a problem. I you know, when
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Speaker 2: you are repeatedly humiliated or insulted or put down, when
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Speaker 2: you're told who you are not and who you are,
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Speaker 2: you definitely don't know who you are. So I grew
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Speaker 2: up as a kid who who didn't know who I was.
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Speaker 2: And I grew up with a lot of mental health
4:36
Speaker 2: struggles from anxiety and depression at times. And yeah, growing
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Speaker 2: up in that type of trauma that you don't know
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Speaker 2: is trauma actually, and having the wake up call after
4:51
Speaker 2: going through training that basically opened your eyes and helped
4:55
Speaker 2: you put names on things that you thought were normal
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Speaker 2: and that you expect and stand a daily basis. So
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Speaker 2: here trying I'm not trying to blame. I'm really showing
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Speaker 2: the how you say that, the fact that in countries
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Speaker 2: like mine, this type of violence is normalized. And I
5:13
Speaker 2: say this because after I shared my story later on,
5:17
Speaker 2: after maybe I shared how the entire organization started. But
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Speaker 2: I shared my story later on, after I went through
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Speaker 2: the training and the video where I share about me
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Speaker 2: experiencing this type of trauma caused by verbal emotional and
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Speaker 2: psychological violence, and also about the vision of breaking the
5:38
Speaker 2: cycle because I started learning more. My background is in psychology,
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Speaker 2: so I finally could put all the puzzles together that
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Speaker 2: it didn't start with me, that it didn't even start
5:49
Speaker 2: with my dad, who I experienced this with directly, but
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Speaker 2: he also experienced that with his own parents. And for me,
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Speaker 2: it was fascinating because I wanted to know why it
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Speaker 2: was a norm. So it started with that video. I
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Speaker 2: shared it on social media. It was shared massively, not
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Speaker 2: only in my country, but in thirteen countries as well,
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Speaker 2: and people from Madagascar started reaching out and they said,
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Speaker 2: this is not just a thank you for first of
6:17
Speaker 2: all putting a name on something that I also experienced,
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Speaker 2: but also people from other countries saying, this is not
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Speaker 2: just happening in Medagascar, this is not just in the household.
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Speaker 2: And later on I finally found the data from UNICEF
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Speaker 2: that says that eighty four percent of children in Medagascar
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Speaker 2: are growing up in verbal, emotional and psychological violence. And
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Speaker 2: it's so it's so normalized that you know, we don't
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Speaker 2: know that it's wrong, but it's one.
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Speaker 1: Of the wow saying a lot of stuff here it
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Speaker 1: is that is I just want to I want to
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Speaker 1: touch base on man. Francisca. Thank you for sharing this
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Speaker 1: and you are so inspiring. How old were you? But
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Speaker 1: I want to get back to another question here. When
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Speaker 1: you said yourself, all right, I'm going to go what
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Speaker 1: become a sexual survivor peer support person? When you said that,
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Speaker 1: was that a conscious decision because what you had gone
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Speaker 1: through or you just said it wasn't.
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Speaker 2: So when I was back in Madagascar before I moved
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Speaker 2: to the US, I did an internship at this place
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Speaker 2: that that was taking care of women victims of sexual violence.
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Speaker 2: So I thought because I had the experience. When I
7:44
Speaker 2: came to the US, I was an international student, I
7:48
Speaker 2: needed to find a job and I saw that announcement
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Speaker 2: and I was like, I think this is a good
7:53
Speaker 2: fit because I have some knowledge about sexual violence. And
7:57
Speaker 2: then I went into that opportunity and went through another
8:01
Speaker 2: training that addressed all of the forms of violence. So
8:04
Speaker 2: for me, it was by necessity, but also because I
8:07
Speaker 2: thought that, oh, I know what we're going to talk
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Speaker 2: about at least in this and I think I'm a
8:12
Speaker 2: good fit. Yeah.
8:14
Speaker 1: I think when you made this video I was twenty.
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Speaker 2: Twenty. It was six years ago, twenty.
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Speaker 1: What platform did you put it on?
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Speaker 2: I put it on Facebook and then on Instagram. But
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Speaker 2: it was basically I went through an incubator at Brown University.
8:37
Speaker 2: Long short story, short time. I went in a community
8:40
Speaker 2: college in Virginia where I learned about what this form
8:44
Speaker 2: of violence was, and then I got a scholarship to
8:47
Speaker 2: go to Brown and that's where I was like, I
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Speaker 2: get finally, I have the time and the energy and
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Speaker 2: I don't have to think about, you know, financial needs.
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Speaker 2: So I'm going to focus on how to solve this problem.
8:58
Speaker 2: So I went through an incubator, which is basically a
9:02
Speaker 2: place where we learned about a specific problem. What are
9:06
Speaker 2: the causes that the understanding the root cause of a
9:11
Speaker 2: problem before addressing it, then providing the solutions to to
9:15
Speaker 2: a certain problem. So I made the video after that incubator.
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Speaker 2: It was a six month incubator and they made that
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Speaker 2: video that I shared on my personal social media.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about Yes, how did that come about?
9:34
Speaker 1: What is it? Yes?
9:36
Speaker 2: So Umena came about during that incubator. It came from
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Speaker 2: the realization that verbal, emotional, and psychological violence are are
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Speaker 2: not normal. First of all, that before even escalating into
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Speaker 2: physical and sexual viol Usually it starts like that. So
10:02
Speaker 2: for me, the eye opener for my personal experience and
10:07
Speaker 2: also with my family experience, I would say it started
10:10
Speaker 2: with that. And as I was going through the healing
10:15
Speaker 2: process for myself, for my family with my dad, I
10:18
Speaker 2: realized that I was not the only one going through that.
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Speaker 2: And once I went through the incubator, I shared the
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Speaker 2: video on social media. I saw this momentum, but also
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Speaker 2: this energy from other people wanting to do something about
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Speaker 2: the problem, experiencing the same thing. I realized that it
10:37
Speaker 2: was the time. I didn't plan to make it happen
10:41
Speaker 2: that during that moment, but it was really the All
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Speaker 2: of the other people reached out and said that they
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Speaker 2: also experienced this. That led to the creation of the organization.
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Speaker 2: And umena is it's a Malagasie word. It's a play
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Speaker 2: on word in my native language. The entire word means give, provide,
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Speaker 2: and the second part mena means red. So I don't
11:09
Speaker 2: have the logo with me, but it's a it's a
11:12
Speaker 2: hand holding a red card. Though, oh, it's a hand
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Speaker 2: holding a red card. So it's basically our mission. It's
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Speaker 2: providing youth and children with the tools so that they
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Speaker 2: can stand up for themselves and say no to violence.
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Speaker 2: So it's providing those tools, social emotional learning tools to
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Speaker 2: help people spot and stand up for themselves and break
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Speaker 2: the cycle starting with them.
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Speaker 1: When you said sexual emotional violence isn't.
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Speaker 2: Normal, you mean verbal emotional Yeah, sexual is not normal
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Speaker 2: that we would acknowledge that that It's not okay?
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Speaker 1: When you say normal, what do you mean because it's
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Speaker 1: certainly prevalent, and it's certainly prevalent in Madagascar. Yeah, right,
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Speaker 1: So when you say normal, do you mean it's not acceptable?
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Speaker 1: It's not right. It's what did you mean by normal?
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Speaker 2: Normal? To me meant that even if it happens in
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Speaker 2: front of you, nobody's going to say anything. It's normalized.
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Speaker 2: People are not going to say that, oh, don't talk
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Speaker 2: to him like that, or it's just a way of
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Speaker 2: life there. And I know this is prevalent in a
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Speaker 2: lot of different countries. It exists here in the US,
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Speaker 2: but it's less normalized, or it's less accepted. That's the word. Yeah, accepted.
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Speaker 1: How did you We've talked a lot about kind of
12:42
Speaker 1: what you've the actions you took to help other people.
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Speaker 1: How did you start to get help. How did you
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Speaker 1: start to realize where? When did you realize I need
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Speaker 1: some help?
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Speaker 2: I think my want to study psychology was my first
13:06
Speaker 2: I would say realization that I need needed some help
13:11
Speaker 2: because I knew me being very shy me going through
13:17
Speaker 2: I didn't even know that it was called depression back then.
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Speaker 2: I just knew that I was sad, I had a
13:22
Speaker 2: low self esteem, and I wanted to understand myself better.
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Speaker 2: So I think I found the type of refuge in
13:29
Speaker 2: the books that I was reading on emotional intelligence or
13:34
Speaker 2: on psychology in itself and understanding that that I could heal.
13:41
Speaker 2: I think those were very blurry at the time, but
13:46
Speaker 2: it was, like I said, like a puzzle. It was
13:48
Speaker 2: a puzzle that I started putting together when I went
13:51
Speaker 2: through that training, And that training helped me understand what
13:58
Speaker 2: forboll emotional and psychological it looks like, why it exists
14:02
Speaker 2: and the consequences on people's sense of identity, dignity, self esteem,
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Speaker 2: and mental health. And I think that was for me
14:09
Speaker 2: that my first eye opener. And I remember one time
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Speaker 2: I knew that it had an impact on me because
14:18
Speaker 2: I saw my self esteem, I saw my mental health deteriorate,
14:22
Speaker 2: because of that type of event and the cycle. Understanding
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Speaker 2: what the cycle of violence meant made me realize that, Okay,
14:32
Speaker 2: it really didn't start with me, but it was confirmed
14:34
Speaker 2: when I went to my dad one day and I
14:37
Speaker 2: shared a similar video around what for all emotional and
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Speaker 2: psychological violence looked like. And he looked at it and
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Speaker 2: I was like, what do you think about this? Dad?
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Speaker 2: And he looked at it and he's like, this is wrong,
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Speaker 2: and I'm like, you know, you're doing this to us
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Speaker 2: and he lashed out. He's like, what you're talking about?
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Speaker 2: I won't do that. I ended the conversation there, but
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Speaker 2: a month later I think he talked to my mom,
15:01
Speaker 2: but it came back to my brothers, my mom, and
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Speaker 2: I and he apologized and said, you're right, I do
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Speaker 2: this and my dad did the same thing. And everything
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Speaker 2: I read about, you know, intergenerational trauma, about cycles of trauma,
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Speaker 2: it just made sense. And I was like, oh my gosh,
15:18
Speaker 2: is healing process started there. It allowed our dynamic at
15:23
Speaker 2: home to get better, but it allowed a lot of
15:26
Speaker 2: clarity as well, and that's where I was like, oh
15:28
Speaker 2: my gosh, we need to do something about it. At
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Speaker 2: the time, I was still learning more about therapy, about
15:34
Speaker 2: social emotional learning, about nonviolent communication, about compassionate inquiry or
15:40
Speaker 2: somatic breathing. So we put all of that together and
15:45
Speaker 2: practiced that every week with my family. So I would
15:49
Speaker 2: say for three years we did that until I started
15:52
Speaker 2: the organization. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Wow, so you were like healing with your family.
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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it's still happening right now because it's very
16:04
Speaker 2: hard to change, but at least now we can keep
16:07
Speaker 2: each other accountable. We can say that, hey, what's happening.
16:12
Speaker 1: Now.
16:12
Speaker 2: Let's say, if one of us start to raise their voices,
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Speaker 2: we're like, hey, dad, what's happening? Are you mad? Are
16:18
Speaker 2: you sad? Are you angry? And we start to corregulate,
16:22
Speaker 2: and we have the language now to help each other
16:27
Speaker 2: have those hard conversations that we didn't know needed to happen,
16:31
Speaker 2: or help each other navigate those big emotions, because at
16:35
Speaker 2: the end of the day, a lot of why verbal, emotional,
16:38
Speaker 2: and psychological abuse happens is because we don't know what's happening.
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Speaker 2: We are projecting our own frustrations or things that we
16:46
Speaker 2: don't even know what's happening. And we help each other.
16:49
Speaker 2: First of all, we learn to regulate ourselves but sometimes
16:51
Speaker 2: it's hard, so we corregulate. So that's what we have
16:54
Speaker 2: been trying to practice for the past three years and
16:58
Speaker 2: which allowed me, my brother, and my family to have
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Speaker 2: I would say healthier relationships. Of course, things are still
17:06
Speaker 2: happening and things are exploding sometimes, but I would say
17:10
Speaker 2: compared to fifteen years ago, it's way way better.
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Speaker 1: So is how exactly does Ameina.
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Speaker 2: Workh So we have a model that was intentionally created
17:30
Speaker 2: mirroring the experience that I had, meaning that I was
17:33
Speaker 2: a peer educator. When I was a peer educator, I
17:37
Speaker 2: would share in the schools what was the link between
17:42
Speaker 2: sexual violence and alcohol consumption, for example? And then as
17:47
Speaker 2: I was talking about those very sensitive topics, I could
17:50
Speaker 2: see how open the people that I was talking to
17:54
Speaker 2: in the schools were, versus if it was a professor
17:57
Speaker 2: with the students. So the model that we have is
18:01
Speaker 2: a peer to peer kind of model. So we recruit
18:05
Speaker 2: and we trained young adults. So the first young adults
18:09
Speaker 2: that I trained were those people who reached out after
18:13
Speaker 2: the video was shared and we had the cohort of
18:15
Speaker 2: fifty people. They were eager to learn, they wanted to
18:19
Speaker 2: also make a difference, and they were all surviving. We
18:22
Speaker 2: were all survivors and we co created a training that
18:28
Speaker 2: was that was already existing. It was based on social
18:31
Speaker 2: emotional learning and nonviolent communications, somatic breathing, compassionate inquiry, but
18:40
Speaker 2: we adapted it in the sense that we translated it,
18:43
Speaker 2: we made it culturally appropriate, we piloted it, we made
18:47
Speaker 2: some changes altogether, and that became the training that we have.
18:52
Speaker 2: And then those young adults they go through themselves. They
18:56
Speaker 2: go through the training, and then they go through what
18:58
Speaker 2: we call community of practice for six months. It's basically
19:01
Speaker 2: putting any practice like Okay, we have a wheel of
19:05
Speaker 2: emotions in front of us. We try to put the emotions,
19:08
Speaker 2: what are the need behind those emotions? If we have
19:12
Speaker 2: some triggers, what is triggering us? How do we set boundaries,
19:16
Speaker 2: how do we have hard conversations, how do we regulate
19:18
Speaker 2: and corregulate. So for six months we go through that
19:21
Speaker 2: individually so that we can heal ourselves and as a group.
19:24
Speaker 2: It was like a self help group but also a
19:26
Speaker 2: therapy peutic group. And then we graduate. They graduate as
19:31
Speaker 2: community educators and then for a year they serve as
19:35
Speaker 2: community educators. They go out there and they raise awareness
19:39
Speaker 2: around what verbal emotional and psychological violence is because we
19:43
Speaker 2: cannot address a problem before we can put a name
19:48
Speaker 2: on it. So the first part is helping people realize
19:52
Speaker 2: that this is a problem. And then another portion of
19:55
Speaker 2: the community, educators are teaching children in schools what social
20:03
Speaker 2: emotional learning is. So we're trying to change the culture
20:06
Speaker 2: and promote empathy at the very early age so we
20:10
Speaker 2: can have a better understanding of what healthy love looks like.
20:15
Speaker 2: And we work with the Ministry of Education in Madatascar
20:18
Speaker 2: to introduce that curriculum. So it's mainly training. We train educators,
20:24
Speaker 2: we train parents, teachers, and then we give that social
20:28
Speaker 2: emotional learning curriculum to the children. You started this, yes
20:36
Speaker 2: I did. Sometimes I forget, but yes I did.
20:42
Speaker 1: Francesca, You're amazing, thank you and inspiring. My God. Is
20:47
Speaker 1: your goal to target a particular community or particular countries
20:54
Speaker 1: or just global.
20:58
Speaker 2: I always wanted to dominance it was. It came really
21:02
Speaker 2: from that, you know, people reaching out then feeling that
21:06
Speaker 2: this is really a global issue to address, and that
21:10
Speaker 2: was that is still the vision. However, when we started
21:13
Speaker 2: it five years ago, even addressing the issue in Madagascar
21:18
Speaker 2: itself took us five years to even have the different
21:23
Speaker 2: model iterated. So it's going to take some time. We
21:27
Speaker 2: started it already and now we have thirteen ambassadors in
21:31
Speaker 2: different countries right now, certain different countries, and we believe
21:35
Speaker 2: that as long as we can put a name on it,
21:38
Speaker 2: like advocacy and helping people realize that this is a
21:42
Speaker 2: real issue we need to address. Because the thing that
21:44
Speaker 2: I didn't address was imagine myself as one of the
21:49
Speaker 2: eighty four percent of children going through this, having a
21:52
Speaker 2: very low self esteem, not being active in the community,
21:56
Speaker 2: and not really reaching my full potential. Imaginating four percent
22:00
Speaker 2: of the population growing up like that, I was an
22:03
Speaker 2: an outlier because I'm the one trying to make a change,
22:06
Speaker 2: but not everybody's going to do that. So if you
22:09
Speaker 2: imagine how eighty four percent of the children are going
22:13
Speaker 2: to grow up as adult perpetuating this type of violence
22:16
Speaker 2: and not reaching their full potential, how can a country develop?
22:19
Speaker 2: So it's also in that sense, and also this type
22:24
Speaker 2: of violence exists because of systems of oppressions like colonialism,
22:27
Speaker 2: patriarchy and in countries like mine, those have destroyed countries
22:33
Speaker 2: like mine. So I want to break this cycle through
22:35
Speaker 2: this organization to help us reach our full potential and
22:38
Speaker 2: other countries I know need that as well, and we
22:42
Speaker 2: are happy to share what worked for us and see
22:45
Speaker 2: how the model is going to evolve and change depending
22:49
Speaker 2: on the culture and the countries as well.
22:52
Speaker 1: Why do you think you were an outlier and how
22:59
Speaker 1: did you become an outlier?
23:01
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still wondering because at some point I was like,
23:08
Speaker 2: what if I just decided not to do something about it.
23:11
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot of what happened throughout the journey.
23:17
Speaker 2: I feel very fortunate and privileged to have had the
23:22
Speaker 2: type of support that I had to allow me to
23:25
Speaker 2: turn the this vision into something real because I shared
23:29
Speaker 2: earlier that I got a scholarship to go to Brown,
23:31
Speaker 2: But before that, I experienced this already and I knew
23:34
Speaker 2: that it was a problem, but because I was balancing responsibility, financial,
23:40
Speaker 2: you know, issues, or I didn't think I was able
23:45
Speaker 2: to do more because of all the things that I
23:49
Speaker 2: was caring already. But as soon as I had that
23:53
Speaker 2: privilege to go to Brown to have a full ride,
23:57
Speaker 2: I say it like this because it's a privilege I
24:00
Speaker 2: I didn't need to think about my my my tuition
24:04
Speaker 2: or like food to Yes, four years undergrad Yes, I actually,
24:13
Speaker 2: and I think that not a lot of people get
24:15
Speaker 2: to have that. And I felt that I was so
24:20
Speaker 2: privileged that I needed to I wanted to to do
24:24
Speaker 2: something about it. Then I had that space and that
24:28
Speaker 2: support too to have this realized and also along the way.
24:33
Speaker 1: Second second, how do you go from like being a
24:41
Speaker 1: kid or a young woman experiencing all this, having all
24:46
Speaker 1: these experiences, traumatic experiences, how do you go help me
24:54
Speaker 1: connect the dots from there to that community college to
24:58
Speaker 1: Brown you even thinking that is is a possibility.
25:06
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'm the oldest of at home, so I
25:12
Speaker 2: think that responsibility as well was in my head that
25:15
Speaker 2: I needed to The story in my head was that
25:18
Speaker 2: I needed to pave the way for my brothers and
25:21
Speaker 2: you know, help make a yeah, have a better future
25:27
Speaker 2: for the family. So I was when I came to
25:31
Speaker 2: the US, I had that mission in mind. I need
25:35
Speaker 2: to work hard, I need to study hard. I need
25:37
Speaker 2: And also maybe because of my experience growing up in
25:41
Speaker 2: that type of environment, I decided, like I shared with you,
25:45
Speaker 2: how some people are outliers and some people become more passive.
25:49
Speaker 2: So in my case, I think that because I didn't
25:52
Speaker 2: want my dad to criticize me, that much. I tried
25:56
Speaker 2: to become a perfectionist, So everything that I would do,
25:59
Speaker 2: I would tried to make it so good that it
26:01
Speaker 2: couldn't see anything. However, as a result, my brothers were
26:05
Speaker 2: compared to me, and because they were compared to me, like,
26:09
Speaker 2: no matter what we're gonna do, we're always going to
26:11
Speaker 2: be compared, So they became more passive. And I think
26:14
Speaker 2: I brought that with me as my coping mechanism to
26:18
Speaker 2: and I learned that in therapy that it's really one
26:20
Speaker 2: of the parts that led me to where I am
26:22
Speaker 2: today in terms of wanting to always become an overachiever,
26:27
Speaker 2: making things very perfect. But as I was healing, like
26:30
Speaker 2: that is less you know, over that would say. But
26:36
Speaker 2: in the past, it was that I would I would
26:39
Speaker 2: be always on one of the top of the class,
26:42
Speaker 2: or just because I wanted to protect myself from you know,
26:46
Speaker 2: not being criticized or yelled at, or it's like that's
26:50
Speaker 2: so maybe that's one of the factors that allowed me
26:54
Speaker 2: to get those opportunities and get that privilege.
27:00
Speaker 1: All right, uh, Brancisca, as we wind down here, how
27:04
Speaker 1: do people learn more about you? And Amina?
27:07
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, you went by so quickly. Well, thank
27:11
Speaker 2: you first of all for helping us amplify our cause,
27:14
Speaker 2: because I believe that platforms like this allow us to
27:18
Speaker 2: shed light more on this type of cause. So if
27:23
Speaker 2: you would like to collaborate with us or learn more
27:26
Speaker 2: about us, feel free to go on our website. It's
27:29
Speaker 2: a womena Movement dot org on all social media, it's
27:34
Speaker 2: end all womena Movement. And yeah, thank you so much.
27:38
Speaker 1: And that is O M E N A Movement dot org.
27:42
Speaker 1: We'll have that link up here at the show notes
27:44
Speaker 1: page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com. Francesca, come
27:48
Speaker 1: on freaking amazing and inspiring. Really appreciate you. Appreciate this
27:53
Speaker 1: is why I love doing this. I mean, I get
27:56
Speaker 1: to talk to people like you, and when I learned
27:59
Speaker 1: about what you were doing, was like, come on, incredible, really,
28:04
Speaker 1: thank you, love it, love it and appreciate you. Thank
28:07
Speaker 1: you so much.
28:07
Speaker 2: Thank you. It was a pleasure. And thank you everyone
28:10
Speaker 2: for having me. Take care, take care,