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Jorma Kaukonen and Hot Tuna Bring New Tour to New Jersey · Jersey Arts Podcast

• 0:03
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This is Gina Marie Rodriguez, and you're listening to the Jersey Arts Podcast.
• 0:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Today's guest is a rock and roll Hall of Fame inductee, Grammy Award-winning musician, and one of the most influential guitarists of all time.
• 0:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Jorma Kaukonen was named among Rolling Stone's 100 greatest guitarists.
• 0:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: He pioneered a signature fusion of folk, blues, and rock, and ultimately inspired generations of players to follow in his footsteps.
• 0:29
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The world first heard Yorma as an original member of Jefferson Airplane, playing lead guitar on a string of classic albums.
• 0:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: He went on to co-found iconic blues duo Hot Tuna with Jack Casady, building up another parallel legacy thereafter.
• 0:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Renowned for his unprecedented finger-picking and eloquent six-string phrasing, his catalog expanded with over 20 solo albums.
• 0:49
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: He was notably inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a member of Jefferson Airplane in 1996, while he and his bandmates garnered the prestigious Grammy Lifetime Achievement Award in 2016.
• 1:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Today he and I had a very pleasant chat about his international upbringing, long-standing friendship with musical partner Jack Casady, and the unique names by which his music has identified.
• 1:11
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Stay tuned to learn more.
• 1:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So we start off really easy.
• 1:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm just gonna ask you how your day is going.
• 1:18
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, let's see, it's still uh it's only 11 o'clock, 1101, I think, and so far it's going really great.
• 1:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: Good.
• 1:25
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Where are you based?
• 1:26
  Jorma Kaukonen: I am in southeast Ohio, about uh 90 miles southeast of Columbus in a little college town called Athens.
• 1:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh, that sounds fun.
• 1:33
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I don't know anything about Ohio except the movie that a friend of mine made called Escaping Ohio.
• 1:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Are you familiar?
• 1:39
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh you know something that's funny.
• 1:40
  Jorma Kaukonen: I I just saw that somewhere.
• 1:42
  Jorma Kaukonen: I haven't seen it.
• 1:42
  Jorma Kaukonen: I have to check it out.
• 1:43
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: It's very much um uh what do they call it, a coming-of-age film.
• 1:47
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I don't know what kind of you know film preferences you have, but it was it was an enjoyable film.
• 1:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So that's all I know about Ohio.
• 1:54
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, I'm very eclectic.
• 1:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, we're uh uh oh Ohio is a maligned state in a lot of ways.
• 2:00
  Jorma Kaukonen: People think about you know oil spills and burning rivers and stuff like that.
• 2:05
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh we're we're down kind of near where West Virginia and Kentucky come together, it's very pretty.
• 2:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: Appalachian foothills, etc.
• 2:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: It sounds nice.
• 2:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well, not the oil spills part, but that's up north so far.
• 2:18
  Jorma Kaukonen: Knock on wet.
• 2:19
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But but you grew up all over the place, didn't you?
• 2:22
  Jorma Kaukonen: I did.
• 2:22
  Jorma Kaukonen: I'm I'm I was born in Washington, DC, but uh but my dad worked for a lot of government agencies and wound up in the Foreign Service, so we traveled around a lot.
• 2:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Do you speak any other languages due to your bouncing around?
• 2:34
  Jorma Kaukonen: No.
• 2:35
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh not really.
• 2:36
  Jorma Kaukonen: I uh I I probably should.
• 2:39
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh I I uh I have a pretty good ear for that stuff.
• 2:42
  Jorma Kaukonen: So when when we were like stationed in a in a place like the Philippines, for example, um, because I went to because I went to a Filipino school, not an American school.
• 2:52
  Jorma Kaukonen: They everything they speak in English, but you know, you learn all the dirty words and stuff like that.
• 2:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: Of course.
• 2:58
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, that that would be the the first place.
• 3:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What do I know in Filipino?
• 3:01
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Como está?
• 3:02
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Como está?
• 3:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I don't know how to say it.
• 3:05
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: My Filipino accent is too.
• 3:06
  Jorma Kaukonen: I don't know.
• 3:06
  Jorma Kaukonen: Mine is it's as we're talking a long, long time ago.
• 3:09
  Jorma Kaukonen: The only Tagalic stuff I can remember now is stuff we're probably not gonna want to say in this interview.
• 3:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Okay, we probably shouldn't say that then.
• 3:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But at least you have that memory, you know, you recalled some of it.
• 3:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: Absolutely.
• 3:21
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, it was just I always had a great time, and uh, you know, I've always made a lot of friends wherever we were, and I've I've been a lucky guy.
• 3:27
  Jorma Kaukonen: I've been a lot of interesting places.
• 3:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Absolutely.
• 3:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well so at what point did you fall in love with music, I guess?
• 3:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: When did you begin?
• 3:35
  Jorma Kaukonen: So um for for people of our uh economic milieu, uh my my mom and dad listened to uh they were sort of like in intellectually pretentious in a lot of ways, and they listened to a lot of classical music and whatnot.
• 3:50
  Jorma Kaukonen: So I got to listen to that.
• 3:52
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh but my mother for some reason also really liked black gospel music.
• 3:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: And so I got a chance to hear Mahalia Jackson when I was a kid and stuff like that.
• 4:03
  Jorma Kaukonen: And and I I can't I can't put my finger on something, but there's something about the music that resonated with me.
• 4:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I think later on when I be when I became when I got turned on to blues music, which was done by my friend Jim, my partner Jack Cassidy, his young his older brother turned me on to that, it kind of all started to make sense.
• 4:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And you've known Jack a long time now, right?
• 4:25
  Jorma Kaukonen: Jack and I have I've known Jack, I've known him since since uh since 1955, and we've played music together since 1958.
• 4:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: Jack is it's really it's funny stuff.
• 4:39
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh Jack is four years younger than me, and so when we started playing playing music together, uh I think he was still in junior high school, or excuse me, middle school today.
• 4:51
  Jorma Kaukonen: Um and I was in high school, and we we we uh we got would occasionally get get gigs in uh in bars in the DC area.
• 5:01
  Jorma Kaukonen: In those days you had to be 18 to go into a bar now.
• 5:04
  Jorma Kaukonen: I think it's 27 now, but anyway, I mean 21 rather.
• 5:07
  Jorma Kaukonen: But in any case, my my grandfather did a buy had an office at home and he had a copy machine, so we made fake IDs because IDs didn't have pictures on them back in those days.
• 5:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: They didn't.
• 5:18
  Jorma Kaukonen: No, I know, it's hard to imagine.
• 5:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh my gosh.
• 5:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, not even a driver's license had an ID.
• 5:23
  Jorma Kaukonen: But I mean, had a picture.
• 5:25
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh you know, we we looked like such kids.
• 5:28
  Jorma Kaukonen: There's no possible way we could have been 18, much less 21.
• 5:33
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: That's I mean, I just learned so much in such a short period of time, but I think that's amazing.
• 5:37
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And isn't that how a lot of musicians get started, you know, performing underage in like bars and restaurants?
• 5:42
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, of course.
• 5:43
  Jorma Kaukonen: And and and you know, and with that in mind, I was uh I came back from my senior year in high school.
• 5:49
  Jorma Kaukonen: My family was still overseas in the Philippines, and I was living with my grandparents, and uh, you know, Jack, Jack was a really industrious guy, and he he and the and and the uh the drummer of the band were always getting his gigs in really, and I use the term loosely adult places, you know.
• 6:05
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh and my grandmother would go, You going out tonight?
• 6:09
  Jorma Kaukonen: It's a school night.
• 6:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: I'm going, Well, Mama, we're just uh grandma, well, we're just gonna we're gonna go down to the club for a little bit.
• 6:16
  Jorma Kaukonen: And she had visions of, I don't know, of a country club or something, instead of some CD bar in Southeast DC.
• 6:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well, I'm I'm glad that's what she was imagining.
• 6:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah.
• 6:25
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: My brain probably would have gone uh to the latter first, but that's what she says a lot about us.
• 6:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So remind me, how did you meet Jack?
• 6:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Was it in school?
• 6:36
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Was he a neighbor?
• 6:38
  Jorma Kaukonen: So uh I I met Jack through his older brother, uh, a chick.
• 6:43
  Jorma Kaukonen: He's he's passed away since, unfortunately.
• 6:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh let's see how that worked out.
• 6:48
  Jorma Kaukonen: I I guess uh I actually I I had a mutual we we had a mutual friend that that started me out playing the guitar.
• 6:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: His name is Mike Oliver, and uh and he lived in the same neighborhood, because we lived in different neighborhoods, but we went to the same junior high school and high school.
• 7:02
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh but but Mike had introduced me to to Jack and Chick, and and it became apparent uh his his older brother Chick and I messed around with hot rods and stuff like that, like a lot of us did back in those days.
• 7:16
  Jorma Kaukonen: But but when I got into music, Jack's the guy that I got together with, and we've really been messing around with music ever since.
• 7:23
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love that so much.
• 7:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm I'm realizing that I've been friends with most of my girlfriends now for like you know almost 40 years, which is insane when you think about how time flies.
• 7:35
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Yeah.
• 7:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I mean the difference is that I'm not working with them, right?
• 7:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I I'm curious as to how that dynamic changes a friendship or a relationship when you're working together.
• 7:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, Jack and I, you know, like I said, he he's definitely my oldest friend.
• 7:49
  Jorma Kaukonen: And in terms of in terms of a professional relationship, I can't think of any time we've really had a disagreement that involved mediation, you know.
• 7:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: We uh we we we've never really had a band mating.
• 8:01
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, the one way to break up a band, a rock and roll band, is to have a band mating.
• 8:05
  Jorma Kaukonen: That's a good way to start hammering nails on the coffin.
• 8:09
  Jorma Kaukonen: But you know, we do we don't agree about everything, but we just never had any problem working stuff out.
• 8:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: That's pretty impressive, honestly, especially when you hear the horror stories about you know how bands break up and how they're fighting over you know, whatever it might be.
• 8:23
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I guess I don't know if this question um makes sense anymore, but I was gonna ask you if there's an element of music or performance that you miss from before the days of fame and success.
• 8:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, that's a good question.
• 8:38
  Jorma Kaukonen: Um I guess first of all, though, um as a from may maybe make it a two-part answer.
• 8:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: Um I I guess the I guess one of the things that guys might kind of miss i is the excitement of youth, you know.
• 8:53
  Jorma Kaukonen: But and that's just the and that's that's just the way that is.
• 8:57
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh but on the other hand, um you know, we've we've really had such a long artistic conversation, you know, that there's really not any I mean, it's just sort of like an ongoing thing.
• 9:11
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, as you get older, there's more stuff to talk about, but but I remember back in the days, you know, we I was just talking to Jack this morning because we're doing a show here in Ohio uh tonight.
• 9:21
  Jorma Kaukonen: He lets me put Setlist together.
• 9:23
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh I've always been the one that did that for for whatever reason, probably because I'm the singer of the band.
• 9:28
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh, you know, just it's just really been a productive relationship.
• 9:33
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I mean, I think that's the way it should go.
• 9:35
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I'm glad to hear that.
• 9:36
  Jorma Kaukonen: And with that in mind, I'm gonna knock on wood because I'm gonna hope it's gonna continue for a while.
• 9:41
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh, absolutely.
• 9:42
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I have full faith that it will.
• 9:44
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I did want to, I guess, go back in time for a second and ask you a little bit, not necessarily about your time in Jefferson Airplane, but I want to talk to you about the name Jefferson Airplane versus Hot Tuna, and like where did those naming conventions come from?
• 10:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: How does your mind get there?
• 10:02
  Jorma Kaukonen: I guess I guess it was sort of like an early era of like silly band names.
• 10:07
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I remember when we were uh uh looking for a name for the band, uh the airplane, everybody uh came up with like there was a San Francisco band back in those days in the early days called the Bo Brummels.
• 10:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, there's a lot of like the sort of typical rock band kind of names, and and just none of them seemed to to fit this desperate, not desperate, but disparate group of characters that were formed the Jefferson Airplane.
• 10:33
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh I had this friend, uh, he was a blues guitar player from Berkeley, and it we're sitting around one day and everybody's just thinking like silly names.
• 10:43
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, it's like we were wondering how how bad a cat do you have to be before you can be like Yorma guitar Kalkanan, you know, like like a lot like a lack of a lot of those famous black guys that we looked up to so much.
• 10:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: And so we were just joking around with silly names, and uh uh one one of my friends from San Francisco, Tom Mobson, said, Well, I could be blind outrage.
• 11:07
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh my my buddy from uh Steve Mann, I was sad to say, also passed away, great guitar player from LA, he says, Well, I could be Little Son Goldfarb.
• 11:16
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh and uh my friend Steve just was looking at me and he says, You could be blind Thomas Jefferson Airplane.
• 11:25
  Jorma Kaukonen: And none of these names ever left the room.
• 11:27
  Jorma Kaukonen: It was just we were just goofy and fooling around.
• 11:30
  Jorma Kaukonen: But when we were starting to have to get the airplane together and looking for a name, I I guess mercifully I blanked out some of the names that I think that we thought of, but they were just so ridiculous.
• 11:41
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I got, you want a you want a silly name?
• 11:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: How about Jefferson Airplane?
• 11:47
  Jorma Kaukonen: Everyone went, that's not a bad idea.
• 11:50
  Jorma Kaukonen: It's one of those rare occasions where the band agreed on something almost immediately.
• 11:55
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I mean, it's a really easy-to-remember name, so yeah, that probably helped your career.
• 12:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, I mean, also the talent, but you know, good naming convention.
• 12:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Good naming convention is obviously primary.
• 12:08
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: No, I I love that, but uh what about hot tuna, which to me does not evoke like a pretty visual it it does not.
• 12:18
  Jorma Kaukonen: And here's here's what here's that my wife is is shaking her head here.
• 12:23
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Be careful.
• 12:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: I know I've got to be careful here.
• 12:25
  Jorma Kaukonen: Okay, so here's the story.
• 12:26
  Jorma Kaukonen: Uh oh.
• 12:27
  Jorma Kaukonen: So so there's a blind boy fuller, he's a great great Piedmont style blues player, uh, sort of a scatological blues song called Keep on Trucking Mama.
• 12:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: And in that song there's a lyric, what's that smell like fish?
• 12:41
  Jorma Kaukonen: Oh baby, tell you if you really want to know.
• 12:43
  Jorma Kaukonen: We were goofing around in the car one time, and somehow that line from the song came up, and somebody in the car, I think it might have been even been Paul Cantor said, Hot tuna, what's that smell like fish for hot tuna?
• 12:55
  Jorma Kaukonen: And Jack and I went because we were thinking about a name for the band.
• 12:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: That's a great name for the band.
• 13:00
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I mean, it certainly is different.
• 13:02
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: It's it makes me think of um what do you call that dish?
• 13:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: It's a tuna melt, right?
• 13:08
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Because isn't that that's hot, right?
• 13:11
  Jorma Kaukonen: It is hot.
• 13:12
  Jorma Kaukonen: I don't I will stay away from it.
• 13:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh, oh, well, there you go.
• 13:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: See, this is this is why art is subjective, right?
• 13:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Because it will evoke different things for different people.
• 13:23
  Jorma Kaukonen: And it also in the era, it was an era for for people really stretching out with funny band names.
• 13:31
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, there was a band back in that day called Ultimate Spinach.
• 13:34
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, come on, you know, really.
• 13:36
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh, clearly, I need to do more research because I did not adapt.
• 13:39
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I obviously I will.
• 13:43
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But you know, uh as a hungry person, obviously I was initially going to think of food.
• 13:48
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So that's where I went.
• 13:50
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm constantly thinking about food.
• 13:52
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I do want to ask you, what is I mean, I'm fascinated by artists who have to tour because for me, I I get so exhausted just on one one traveling trip, right?
• 14:06
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If I have to get on a plane, I'm done, and I'm I live there for the next month.
• 14:10
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like I don't want to have to do it again.
• 14:11
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So musicians are bouncing around all the time.
• 14:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Sure.
• 14:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What is that like for you?
• 14:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Do you enjoy it or is it just you know a par for the course?
• 14:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, I think I think starting out, I mean, just the way I grew up, you know, you know, I was born in 1940, so well, my dad was in the service during World War II.
• 14:29
  Jorma Kaukonen: So during that time, my my me and my mom and my brother moved wherever my grandparents lived, because we lived with my grandparents.
• 14:36
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I think we just got I just got used to to being transient in in some way.
• 14:42
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh and road trips were always exciting to me, and to be honest with you, in a way they still are.
• 14:48
  Jorma Kaukonen: Like, for example, we're gonna be leaving um a day after tomorrow for to do some some some gigs on the East Coast.
• 14:57
  Jorma Kaukonen: What's our most important gig coming up, Vanessa?
• 15:00
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Well, obviously the one in New Jersey.
• 15:02
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Umessa the first stop is Newport, and the reason that is important is hard to believe that Hotune has never played Newport for the time.
• 15:13
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, we're pretty excited about playing Newport this year.
• 15:18
  Vanessa Kaukonen: But we love New Jersey.
• 15:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: We do love New Jersey.
• 15:21
  Jorma Kaukonen: I'm sort of an I'm an honorary Jersey.
• 15:23
  Jorma Kaukonen: But anyway, uh I mean I love getting in my car and driving around.
• 15:28
  Jorma Kaukonen: And one of the things I like to do when I have nothing else to do where I live is get in my I mean, I live in a rural area, getting in my car and just driving around.
• 15:36
  Jorma Kaukonen: I've always loved driving around, road trips with a family, you know, move around this and that.
• 15:40
  Jorma Kaukonen: So so when when I got to into being a touring musician, it just it just all made perfect sense.
• 15:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Well, I need a friend like you because I hate driving.
• 15:49
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like I don't mind being a passenger princess and letting somebody else do all of the work, but oh gosh, I I hate driving.
• 15:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, I think for I think for a guy of my generation, uh learning how to drive was a f was a real freedom thing.
• 16:02
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I I remember uh we we would never do this with our kids today, but I had a my I had a car before I had a driver's license, and for some silly reason, uh I mean I wasn't allowed to just roam all over the place with it, but I was allowed to drive in the name.
• 16:17
  Jorma Kaukonen: We would never do that today, you know.
• 16:18
  Jorma Kaukonen: No, no.
• 16:19
  Jorma Kaukonen: But uh, I mean, just just that whole, you know, like like the Who say in their song, the air conditioned gypsy kind of thing.
• 16:25
  Jorma Kaukonen: Of course, back in those days, no cars had air conditioners, but you know.
• 16:29
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh my gosh.
• 16:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I've already I'm learning so much.
• 16:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like I said, I I don't like being in a car uh at all, really, but without air conditioning is like a prison setting.
• 16:40
  Jorma Kaukonen: None of us would do that today for a minute.
• 16:41
  Vanessa Kaukonen: I'm gonna sneak in here because I travel with him, uh, but I don't like travel at all.
• 16:47
  Vanessa Kaukonen: And the way that they travel at their age, like I feel like my road chops are shot when I go out there.
• 16:56
  Vanessa Kaukonen: The key to being able to do what they do, they are nappers.
• 17:01
  Vanessa Kaukonen: And they can nap.
• 17:02
  Vanessa Kaukonen: They can do they can take a half hour and make it seem like they just got three hours of sleep.
• 17:08
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Yorma can nap anywhere, so he knows his limits.
• 17:11
  Vanessa Kaukonen: Jack is the same way.
• 17:12
  Vanessa Kaukonen: That's the key to being able to do what they do is to just close your eyes and get a cat.
• 17:18
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Wow, your wife is revealing industry secrets here.
• 17:21
  Jorma Kaukonen: And be sure you have a driver who you really trust.
• 17:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: That's right.
• 17:25
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, absolutely.
• 17:26
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If you're gonna be asleep in the back, you better trust your driver.
• 17:29
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love that.
• 17:30
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I because I would be the same way.
• 17:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like, were I to be married to a musician who was traveling all the time, I would I would be stressed.
• 17:37
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But if you can nap anywhere, that's so key.
• 17:40
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I can't.
• 17:41
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I I used to, you know, when I was young, but I can't nap in a moving car anymore.
• 17:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, I think the thing, the the the the real trick, I'm a I consider myself a professional napper, so the real trick is to not actually fall asleep.
• 17:54
  Jorma Kaukonen: Because if you actually really fall asleep, it's it's a that upsets the Apple card completely.
• 18:00
  Jorma Kaukonen: But just to take a nap and then then boom, you're ready to go again.
• 18:04
  Jorma Kaukonen: That's great.
• 18:05
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Fascinating.
• 18:05
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So you're like in that in-between state of my eyes are closed, but I'm still aware.
• 18:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, sort of.
• 18:11
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah.
• 18:12
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Okay, I get that.
• 18:13
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Wow, that's that's something you have to master.
• 18:15
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah.
• 18:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So that is the trick.
• 18:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: All right, now I know.
• 18:18
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If I ever become a musician and I have to tour, I'm gonna steal your trick.
• 18:22
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But you will come back real quick to Jersey since you have three different performances in New Jersey, which is pretty big.
• 18:28
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You're gonna be at the Welmont, the Basie, and the Scottish Right Auditorium.
• 18:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I take it you've been here before, you've performed in Jersey before.
• 18:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: I haven't.
• 18:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: I've done, you know, i the the tri-state area there really has been a home for me for most of my musical life, including Jefferson Airplane back in the beginning.
• 18:47
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, it's always I think when we first started going on the road, it was one of the first pip first places we went.
• 18:53
  Jorma Kaukonen: And I've just, you know, I'm an East Coaster anyway, originally, you know, but I just always felt comfortable there.
• 18:59
  Jorma Kaukonen: The audience is always fantastic, and we always have a great time.
• 19:03
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love that.
• 19:04
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Is there anything you would like to tell your audiences what they can expect at these shows?
• 19:09
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Are the shows gonna be different?
• 19:12
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, yeah, I I mean one of one of the funny things that uh th that I get is people ask me, I was just gonna Vanessa just sent me a note.
• 19:22
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yes, Vanessa, that's what I was gonna talk about.
• 19:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: I got it, we're good, we're good.
• 19:26
  Jorma Kaukonen: Um, so I mean Jack and I have obviously been playing together since before Rocks and Water, but uh a couple years ago, Jack introduced me to a friend of his from California named Ross Guerin, G-A-R-R-E-N.
• 19:39
  Jorma Kaukonen: And and Ross, um like like like I'm sure that you did you see the Dylan movie, the most recent Dillon movie?
• 19:47
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Oh no, it's on my list though.
• 19:49
  Jorma Kaukonen: Gotta see.
• 19:49
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, anyway, when you see this movie, the the sounds of uh uh Timothy Chalamet, he's not actually playing the harmonica that you hear.
• 19:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: My friend Ross Guerin does that.
• 20:00
  Jorma Kaukonen: He's he's like a studio guy, does all kinds of, you know, whenever they need a professional harmonica player to make a sound, he's one of the guys they get.
• 20:09
  Jorma Kaukonen: Anyway, so so we've been playing with him with a couple years, and he's he's just such a wonderful musician.
• 20:15
  Jorma Kaukonen: He's a musician whose musical voice happens to be the harmonica.
• 20:19
  Jorma Kaukonen: And, you know, people the show he's got, you know, harmonicas are always playing harmonica players always carry all kinds of harmonicas because each one is in a different key.
• 20:31
  Jorma Kaukonen: But he's got chromatic harmonicas, he's got bass harmonica.
• 20:35
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, it it's really a lot of fun.
• 20:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh so yeah, so the that the new thing, I guess, on this trip is we're gonna have our buddy Ross with us, and he really brings a lot of exciting color to the show.
• 20:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: That is so cool.
• 20:47
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I know so little about the harmonica.
• 20:50
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I love the way it sounds, but all I know is when I was a kid, they used to give us harmonicas and we would just like screech.
• 20:56
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: You know, that's the best noise we could make with it.
• 20:58
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So it's so impressive.
• 21:00
  Jorma Kaukonen: As they did with us as well.
• 21:02
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, it's so impressive when someone actually knows how to master that instrument.
• 21:06
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, it really is because since you've since you've played a harmonica, regardless of how long ago.
• 21:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, you know, you breathe in, you breathe out, you got these notes, but the guys that are good at it can mend all those, can do they can do all kinds of stuff.
• 21:17
  Jorma Kaukonen: I can't do it, but you know, it's great.
• 21:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: For me, I have zero breath control, so at any kind of way.
• 21:22
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah, there's that too, of course.
• 21:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: Yeah.
• 21:24
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: There's there's no way I'd survive.
• 21:26
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: But I think that's so cool.
• 21:27
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And I love that, you know, I love that we're talking about such a lasting friendship here.
• 21:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like, yes, there is the performance and the talent aspect, but I'm really drawn to people who who can keep a relationship alive that long because many, many people struggle with that.
• 21:46
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So props to you for having that.
• 21:49
  Jorma Kaukonen: I agree.
• 21:50
  Jorma Kaukonen: And you know, I think one of the things that it has to do with it is we're just two kids from the same neighborhood.
• 21:56
  Jorma Kaukonen: Like, you know, and and that really has a lot to do.
• 21:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: We've we we know we Where we come from, you know, we've known each other's grandparents, the whole deal that goes along with that.
• 22:05
  Jorma Kaukonen: And and I just think that it makes it easy for us to really accept our you know personal idiosyncrasies because we've just known them all for so long.
• 22:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Absolutely.
• 22:17
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Like knowing somebody inside and out is such a it's a privilege, really, you know, to be able to have that kind of intimacy with someone.
• 22:25
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So I'm glad that you guys are still keeping at it.
• 22:27
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Do you have I always ask this and I always say it's a terrible question to ask, but I do it anyway.
• 22:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Do you have a favorite song that you perform?
• 22:36
  Jorma Kaukonen: I think that would probably it would probably be in rotation, depending.
• 22:41
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, we we have uh like we're getting ready to do this tour now.
• 22:45
  Jorma Kaukonen: So so Jack and Ross have come, they're they're in this little town in Ohio where I live, and we've been rehearsing together and stuff.
• 22:52
  Jorma Kaukonen: And we look at all these lists, and even though you kind of know stuff, just because you kind of know a song, it doesn't mean it's performance ready.
• 22:58
  Jorma Kaukonen: So, wow.
• 23:00
  Jorma Kaukonen: So we we we've been putting together, you know, sets for this tour and rehearsing stuff.
• 23:06
  Jorma Kaukonen: Wow, favorite song.
• 23:07
  Jorma Kaukonen: Man, it's just you know, for me, it's just so exciting to be playing in this format, you know, with somebody that's such a great artist as Ross.
• 23:16
  Jorma Kaukonen: It it almost it almost transforms songs that we've been not almost, it trans for me, it transforms songs we've been doing for a lifetime in a really positive kind of way.
• 23:28
  Jorma Kaukonen: It just infuses new life in it.
• 23:30
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, not that not that it's like a new arrangement or it's gonna sound different or etc.
• 23:34
  Jorma Kaukonen: etc.
• 23:35
  Jorma Kaukonen: But but but as one of the participants of the prog in the in the process, it just makes it so much more exciting for me.
• 23:43
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: We're getting close to time.
• 23:44
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: So my last question for you is what I think is the most important one.
• 23:48
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Do you have any advice for up-and-coming musicians?
• 23:52
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, musicians hate getting advice, but uh I guess I guess one of the things I'd have to say is probably nothing that doesn't need to be said, and that is you just need to love what it is that you do.
• 24:05
  Jorma Kaukonen: Because I don't want to be singing the blues about this, but there's a lot of hard times in being a professional musician.
• 24:11
  Jorma Kaukonen: You know, there's times when you don't have money, there's times when the jobs suck.
• 24:15
  Jorma Kaukonen: I mean, even when you've been in the in the business as long as I have, every now and then you get a job that just sucks.
• 24:21
  Jorma Kaukonen: And that's just life, and that's just the way it is.
• 24:24
  Jorma Kaukonen: I guess you just love the those moments when you're on stage, you know, creating your art and communicating with an audience.
• 24:30
  Jorma Kaukonen: That's what makes it all worthwhile.
• 24:32
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: See, I think that was great advice.
• 24:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And it's important to hear because sometimes people have this notion of once you reach the mountaintop, everything will be easy and smooth sailing from there.
• 24:43
  Jorma Kaukonen: Good luck with that, yeah.
• 24:45
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Exactly.
• 24:45
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: It's not true, and it's a nice reminder from somebody.
• 24:48
  Jorma Kaukonen: And honestly, I think, you know, I mean, looking at it, you know, as an overview, you wouldn't really want it to be want that to be true because you know, the you know, the the oddities and vicissitudes of life make you come up with new stuff because you have to.
• 25:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Absolutely.
• 25:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Wow, I just learned a new word, vicissitudes.
• 25:10
  Jorma Kaukonen: Good one, huh?
• 25:10
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Yeah, it was a good one.
• 25:12
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Very impressive.
• 25:12
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: All right.
• 25:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'll I'll just ask you one more thing.
• 25:16
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: What would you like to say to your New Jersey audiences to close out?
• 25:20
  Jorma Kaukonen: Well, first of all, I'd like to say to my great New Jersey audiences, thanks for being with me and my friends for such a long time.
• 25:28
  Jorma Kaukonen: We really appreciate it because it'd be mighty lonesome out there without you.
• 25:32
  Jorma Kaukonen: And uh, you know, New Jersey audiences make their presence known, and we love that.
• 25:37
  Jorma Kaukonen: We love that.
• 25:38
  Jorma Kaukonen: And so we look forward to sharing what we've got to share with you.
• 25:43
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Jorma Kaukonen with Hot Tuna will be making three stops in New Jersey, including the Wellmont Theater in Montclair on August 2nd, the Count Basie Center on August 5th, and the Scottish Wright Auditorium in Collingswood on August 7th.
• 25:57
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: For tickets and more information about these shows, you can visit any of the venue sites or yourmacalkinan.com.
• 26:03
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: If you like this episode, be sure to review, subscribe, and tell your friends.
• 26:07
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: A transcript of this podcast, links relevant to the story, and more about the arts in New Jersey can be found at jerseyarts.com.
• 26:14
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The Jersey Arts Podcast is presented by Art Pride New Jersey, advancing a state of creativity since 1986.
• 26:20
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: The show was co-founded by and currently supported by funds from the New Jersey State Council on the Arts.
• 26:26
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: This episode was hosted, edited, and produced by me, Gina Marie Rodriguez.
• 26:31
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Executive producers are Jim Atkinson and Isaac Serna-Diez.
• 26:34
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: And my thanks, of course, to Mr.
• 26:36
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Jorma Kaukonen for speaking with me today.
• 26:38
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: I'm Gina Marie Rodriguez for the Jersey Arts Podcast.
• 26:41
  Gina Marie Rodriguez: Thanks for listening.