Latest / Awoken Game Club Podcast / Blue Prince

Transcript

Blue Prince · Awoken Game Club Podcast

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: We are here for another episode of the Awoken Game Club.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: We both played last month's game, Blueprints.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening, there's going to be full spoilers.
• 0:17
  We treat this like any book club where we're just coming and
• 0:21
  sharing our thoughts,
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: assuming we've both completely filled our plate with the game.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_01: Awoken Game Club is a monthly video game book club.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_01: We play indie games that strike our fancy,
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: and then we debrief,
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: debate,
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_01: and celebrate after playing throughout the month.
• 0:37
  If you're listening to this strictly through podcast services,
• 0:40
  we do have a sub stack.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: So go ahead and follow us on there for updates.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: See Patrick's amazing art and chat with us.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: Last bit of housekeeping.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Next month, our game is going to be Promise Mascot Agency.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Promise Mascot Agency is a game where you explore a cursed Japanese town,
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: recruit mascot friends,
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: and come to the rescue when disaster strikes.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Solve the mystery of your exile.
• 1:06
  Help a living finger work through her many anger issues in this
• 1:12
  open world narrative adventure.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, looking forward to that.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: But today is all about Blueprints.
• 1:20
  My name,
• 1:20
  oh yeah,
• 1:20
  I guess I should say my name is Ben and I'm joined by Patrick.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Say hello, Patrick.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, Patrick.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: No, happy to join you again, Ben, for our second book club.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, Blueprints, what an experience, am I right?
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, a little bit of backyard experience.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: Inside baseball.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: So each month,
• 1:42
  Patrick and I alternate suggesting three games to each other on
• 1:46
  what we're going to
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: pick.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: And then the other person picks amongst those three.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that way we can play.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: We have a little bit of choice.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: We can decide kind of what feels topical.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So one of the games that Patrick suggested was blueprints.
• 1:59
  Patrick,
• 2:00
  why did you pick blueprints as one of your three options for
• 2:02
  this past month?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: The unsanitized answer,
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: and probably answer that'll get me in a lot of crossfires,
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: was I was finishing up Expedition 33,
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: and honestly,
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: not bittered by it,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: but I saw that Eurogamer had chosen blueprints over...
• 2:23
  exposition 33 when the rest of the world i was like okay well
• 2:26
  if everyone else is
• 2:26
  choosing number two as blueprints surely we have to like at
• 2:31
  least try this we have
• 2:32
  to see what the hullabaloo is all about so i threw it in there
• 2:36
  amongst i think i
• 2:37
  don't know poppy playtime was in there and i don't remember
• 2:40
  what the third option
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: was but uh
• 2:43
  yeah I figured let's let's see if this if we both want to try
• 2:46
  this because I think
• 2:47
  we both had heard of it and were curious about it but honestly
• 2:51
  the throwing it out
• 2:53
  as a choice was the final straw that broke the camel's back
• 2:57
  yeah I think it was it
• 2:59
  was very inspiring time to be picking a game to play when all
• 3:03
  these game of the
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: year lists were coming out and
• 3:06
  You got to just hear these impassioned kind of reviews and
• 3:10
  speeches about these
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: games that changed people over the year.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: And Blueprints was one, I think, that was on both of our radars.
• 3:16
  But because it came out earlier in the year and it was still
• 3:19
  getting all of this
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: love,
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: it was like,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: this game stuck with people.
• 3:25
  what is your relationship with puzzle games i guess let me read
• 3:29
  the description of
• 3:30
  blueprints on steam which is welcome to mount holly where every
• 3:35
  dawn unveils a new
• 3:36
  mystery navigate through shifting corridors and ever-changing
• 3:39
  chambers in this
• 3:40
  genre-defying strategy puzzle adventure but will your
• 3:44
  unpredictable path lead you
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: to rumored 40 room 46
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I'm realizing,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: I have this instinct to contextualize the game that we just played.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I just realized this is a book club.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening, you already played the game.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: So we could just jump in with that assumption.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess, like, I don't think of you as a big puzzler.
• 4:09
  I know I'm not a big puzzler,
• 4:11
  but I think of us both as potential puzzler dabblers.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: What's your relationship with puzzle games?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: So there's like, I have like two kind of answers with that, right?
• 4:22
  Like I'm interested enough in puzzles where I tried games like
• 4:27
  The Witness and
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_00: maybe...
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly,
• 4:29
  The Witness is the biggest one that comes to mind as a game
• 4:32
  that is really
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: celebrating puzzles.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: Don't get me wrong.
• 4:36
  I've played an RPG where you have to match the green button
• 4:40
  with the green symbol on the door.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: But that's not what we're talking about here.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_00: This is...
• 4:45
  not that kind of game where,
• 4:47
  um,
• 4:47
  almost like the puzzle is the means to getting to the dungeon.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: This is, this is all puzzle.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: And like the witness,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_00: I had feelings that,
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: that basically,
• 5:01
  I guess the other prong that I wanted to bring to this is like
• 5:05
  the New York times
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: games feel very puzzly to me.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:08
  Especially maybe beyond the crossword with some of those other,
• 5:11
  um,
• 5:12
  types of games.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: And, um,
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, a similar question that I might pose to you is like,
• 5:20
  do you like those games and do you cheat in something like a
• 5:24
  crossword puzzle?
• 5:26
  Like you get frustrated and maybe I'm already revealing a
• 5:30
  little how I feel about
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: blueprints,
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: but,
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: um,
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_00: cheating became a big part in blueprints for me,
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: unfortunately.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: So I do cheat.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: I am a cheater.
• 5:40
  I,
• 5:41
  uh,
• 5:41
  my,
• 5:41
  the thing that pisses me off about puzzle games is when you hit
• 5:45
  brick walls.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I, I really, I, uh,
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of enjoyment of games for me is that flow state,
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: the progression,
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: and puzzle games,
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: depending on how they're designed,
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_01: can put some brick walls in front of you that you just kind of are like,
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: okay,
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to play,
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think,
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to puzzle,
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: but I'm not enjoying or being successful at that.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Looking at some of the top puzzle games of all time,
• 6:14
  so I guess Portal is a big one that we both love that I think
• 6:18
  does a good job of...
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: The puzzles are shorter and there's not so much distraction.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: I just think that that game doesn't really have brick walls.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow it's a puzzle game that makes you feel smart,
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: that's challenging,
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: and the progression is consistent.
• 6:35
  Baba Is You is a puzzle game that I played that I think I
• 6:38
  enjoyed a little bit,
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: but hit some brick walls.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's games like The Talos Principle or The Witness,
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: which I really enjoyed The Witness,
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: but
• 6:49
  I was hoping that Blueprints was not going to be like The
• 6:52
  Witness because of the
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: brick wall nature of that game.
• 6:58
  So yeah,
• 6:58
  I think...
• 7:00
  The other thing,
• 7:00
  I was thinking about you a lot as I was playing Blueprints.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: The first thing I was like...
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, Patrick's a completionist.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't think this game is very good for completionists.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because it does... I feel like it hurts you to walk away.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: And the other thing is you're not a cheater.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like I'm way more of a cheater than you are.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like way more.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like it hurts you to cheat.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: This is very true.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for thinking of me as we played this.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_00: Because...
• 7:34
  You know how you don't cheat in this game is is doing what the
• 7:38
  game recommends and
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: is to bring a notebook with you and actually write down everything.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so, Ben, I have 30 pages of notes that I can share with you.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was so worried about that, yeah.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_00: That I wrote down every symbol, every color, every, like, dotted line.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, is this something?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I really did enjoy that for, like, six to eight hours.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: Which is already probably more than I should.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: But it became...
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know what type of disorder this is,
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_00: but it became burdensome to continually write every detail,
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: not knowing what was relevant.
• 8:21
  in the room one i have heard that criticism of this game that
• 8:26
  there's a lot of red
• 8:27
  herrings um that like yeah there are i think that something in
• 8:33
  listening to some of
• 8:34
  the interviews with the creator the creator is tonda ross who's
• 8:37
  like a visual
• 8:38
  artist cinematographer animator who's been working on this game
• 8:41
  for like seven
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: years he was inspired by
• 8:44
  like magic and puzzlers and board games just like whenever i
• 8:49
  hear about these
• 8:49
  people i'm like man what savants like so multi-talented and to
• 8:54
  just work on
• 8:55
  something for this long and put this much thought into it but
• 8:58
  what he talks about
• 8:59
  and what a lot of people who like blueprints a lot talk about
• 9:02
  is there are like
• 9:04
  puzzles on puzzles on puzzles on puzzles there's puzzles that
• 9:07
  are not related to
• 9:09
  the main game there's lore puzzles there's progression puzzles
• 9:13
  once you finish the
• 9:14
  quote-unquote once you reach room 46 there's a lot more
• 9:18
  puzzling that you can do
• 9:19
  beyond that um to to like unlock different parts of the estate
• 9:25
  and uh do little
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: side quests as they were so yeah if like
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_01: If you're someone that are a completionist and you're like,
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to solve all these puzzles and take in all this data,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: this could be like an eight month game for you.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to pace yourself for something like that.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if like you had mentioned,
• 9:47
  if you don't know what is relevant at the moment or is this for
• 9:51
  the first layer of
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: puzzle or the second or third layer of puzzle.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's for me where the cheating started.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm in therapy right now.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: When did the cheating start?
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: When did these intrusive thoughts start?
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like...
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_00: The answer is for me,
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: because this is full spoiler where I was like,
• 10:11
  what the fuck am I supposed to be doing with these fucking
• 10:13
  chess pieces that are in
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: every room?
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I never even I have no idea what those are.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: I still don't know.
• 10:22
  They're they're for a meta puzzle that I discovered when you
• 10:26
  went underground after
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: lighting the four gas knobs.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I never did that.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_02: Mm hmm.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's an underground.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_00: I got two gas mobs.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, okay.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't even think I did anything super relevant down there.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I made it that far.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_00: But basically, that puzzle had to do with, as you explored the house...
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_00: You would see chess pieces,
• 10:55
  and then there would be a chess board in the basements or
• 10:57
  underground in this
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: reservoir.
• 11:00
  And you basically had to put the chess pieces on the room that
• 11:03
  you discovered,
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_00: but you needed all five or six.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_00: And as I was reading this, I was like, I'm not going to do this, boss.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing you looked up, too.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's like, that's not...
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's not like, that makes you just feel, I don't know.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't feel like you're,
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_01: you're like,
• 11:24
  you looked it up and you already feel guilty for looking
• 11:26
  something up and then it
• 11:27
  SPEAKER_01: doesn't impact you at all.
• 11:29
  Like it's not something that you need or like,
• 11:33
  uh,
• 11:34
  and yeah,
• 11:34
  I don't know.
• 11:35
  It just,
• 11:35
  that's like the things that I looked up,
• 11:37
  I felt good about them after I looked them up.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, yeah, I've,
• 11:43
  like I'm not gonna I have no guilt at all for looking that up
• 11:46
  like um so yeah but
• 11:49
  that one that you just said is not one that I would feel like
• 11:51
  that after yeah I
• 11:54
  think um and this is mind you probably 10 hours in like I was
• 11:58
  like okay I don't
• 11:59
  know how relevant this is and there was no pattern that I was
• 12:03
  seeing because the
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: nook had a certain pawn piece and I'm like well the nook is
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: So like,
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: and I know as you say it out loud,
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: and this is what I thought as I was compiling notes,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: when I was talking about the different kinds of puzzles,
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: when you say them out loud or write them down,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: well,
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's so obvious now.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And like, oh, the puzzle is very doable.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like when I run D&D games and I'm designing a puzzle for a party,
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like,
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: this puzzle is meant to be solved by like first graders.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Surely this can't be hard.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: But you put them in the room, the players in the room,
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: And they can't understand the puzzle sometimes.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, okay, is that my fault?
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is it maybe not the energy?
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Puzzles be like that.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: They're kind of little shits, if I were to describe puzzles.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, what was your total playtime?
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I've got some of those metrics here.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think 16 hours.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I was like 12 hours.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think I started looking things up until like 8 hours.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: Now, did you get to room 46?
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we've clarified that.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: Did you?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: I did.
• 13:12
  My caveat with that is I thought you had to open all three
• 13:18
  doors in the antechamber.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: Aww.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Because I never went into room 46 before.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 13:26
  and so I was desperately trying to get all three of them up
• 13:29
  because there's
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: somewhere early in the game where it was like,
• 13:33
  just because the anti chamber room opens doesn't mean the final
• 13:36
  door opens.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, that must mean like all three of them have to open.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's how you get that fourth door to open.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I just,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: See,
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: again,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: that's like total,
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: there's going to be one of,
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: and watching some of the YouTube and stuff,
• 13:53
  like there's so many different people have such different
• 13:56
  experiences when they
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: play,
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: like the things they latch onto that,
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_01: the ways they progress pretty much.
• 14:01
  I,
• 14:02
  I really was really happy with my progression because basically
• 14:07
  I found the garden key.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: I found the secret garden, um,
• 14:12
  And that was one of the puzzles I looked up was the stupid
• 14:15
  windmill thing.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I don't care about this.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where do I put these windmills?
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then I opened the left antechamber.
• 14:21
  And then every single run after that was about getting back to
• 14:27
  the left empty
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: chamber and getting in the room.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: I completely...
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: never even opened the middle or the right.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was just like looking for garden keys.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: If I got a garden key,
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was putting it in the closet to keep it or whichever one,
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: whatever the code check.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: I was, I knew I could buy it at the locksmith.
• 14:46
  So I was,
• 14:47
  I was always going right first to get a bunch of loot and to
• 14:51
  get a locksmith.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then I would go left and
• 14:55
  uh do the garden and every like two or three runs in a row i
• 14:58
  was just tunneling on
• 14:59
  trying to brute force this puzzle and that that is something
• 15:03
  that i also really
• 15:04
  worked out for me um because a huge like a lot of the game of
• 15:09
  your discussions i
• 15:09
  listened to where people bounced off it was frustration where
• 15:12
  knowing what they
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: needed to do but the rng was not allowing it
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: The run that I beat the game on was miraculous.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was,
• 15:21
  it was only like the second or third time that I had been brute
• 15:25
  forcing this
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: strategy,
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: which I think is not a good way to play it.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: And could,
• 15:30
  could you got to let the rooms come to you and you got to
• 15:33
  whatever anti-chamber
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_01: room you get is the one you got to go for.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: But like I got the left one open and every other thing,
• 15:42
  room that i opened like i was i had enough like enough steps i
• 15:46
  had i had already
• 15:48
  gone down i'd already opened the fountain so like that was
• 15:53
  prepped for me um with
• 15:55
  like the basement key so i could go through both sides of the
• 15:59
  bottom and solve that
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: puzzle and then
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: come back all the way and then get into the room 46.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I did it all in this, like, I was like, Holy shit.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's all just like, and I really come together.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's all come together.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It was like the first round that I even got to the reservoir.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was the only round that I ever went to the reservoir.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_01: I did not have to do it again.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: Damn.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: I opened room 45 so many times and just never went in there.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_00: I did it once.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: I only did it one time.
• 16:31
  And then from the time I got the basement key and the time I
• 16:36
  got into room 46 was the same run.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: And the only times I ever did both those things.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think everyone's like first miraculous first major run,
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: maybe not everyone because our sample sizes too.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: But I also had just like a crazy good run, plenty of extra steps.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was able to get two of the doors open.
• 16:57
  And so I didn't even open the third one,
• 16:59
  which was the greenhouse key,
• 17:01
  the broken lever one.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I had like 75 gold.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, I'm going to invest this.
• 17:06
  There's like different ways you can like freeze the money or
• 17:09
  like buy one of the
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: expensive books for lore.
• 17:12
  But I ended up was like,
• 17:15
  honestly,
• 17:15
  it was weirdly disappointed because I didn't know.
• 17:19
  the run would end I guess I should have but I was like I was
• 17:23
  weirdly met with
• 17:23
  disappointment when I finished the cutscene because I was like
• 17:26
  wait I didn't get to
• 17:27
  spend my 75 gold on like something game changing oh yeah and so
• 17:31
  I had a little bit
• 17:32
  of a sour taste in my mouth especially also with the ending
• 17:34
  maybe you could pivot
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_00: to the story on what your interpretation of the story was so I was like
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't maybe I didn't get it.
• 17:42
  And I honestly intentionally did not watch any YouTube videos
• 17:45
  to see what the actual story is.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: I have my interpretation based on the five red envelopes that I got.
• 17:53
  I don't know how many red envelopes you ended up with or if you
• 17:56
  have that in front of you.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah.
• 17:59
  So before we get into some of the lore stuff,
• 18:03
  what was your early impressions of the game?
• 18:06
  Like our I with a different lens,
• 18:11
  I enjoyed it because I liked taking notes.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was like in it for the as the kids say,
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: raw dogging this experience,
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: like just not having any notes or no,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: sorry,
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: any cheats.
• 18:25
  just really take it in enter a room and like absorb what i had
• 18:29
  and i do think when
• 18:31
  i had my first aha moment in terms of actually getting a puzzle
• 18:35
  right naturally i
• 18:37
  was i do think i needed that win and that was an hour four or
• 18:41
  five that i was like
• 18:44
  holy shit this game is something special if they can keep
• 18:47
  dishing that out um
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that particular puzzle.
• 18:53
  And I don't know if we're going to talk about that now or we
• 18:55
  can talk about others.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: But it was the puzzle.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was the basically I had very naturally.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was the picture interpretation one, the face and ace.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then like the letter translated was F. No, we're talking about.
• 19:17
  did the art on the walls ever mean anything to you i knew it
• 19:20
  was supposed to mean
• 19:21
  something and i never learned it okay so that that was so the
• 19:27
  art every room
• 19:28
  basically had two pictures in it yep and um that mean there
• 19:32
  were hints that the art
• 19:33
  meant stuff and i was like yes sure i'll leave you alzara or
• 19:37
  zoltar alzara scared
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_00: the fuck out of me
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 19:42
  My wife came in the room when I played it,
• 19:44
  and this was like her only interpretation.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_00: She was like, is the whole game like this?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, absolutely not.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is really weird stuff.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:51
  But briefly,
• 19:53
  my first hour or two,
• 19:55
  this game reminded me a lot of Gone Home,
• 19:57
  which is also...
• 19:58
  not a it's like a narrative game where you walk through this
• 20:00
  house and look at
• 20:02
  context clues but i i was i was a little bit unsettled and i
• 20:07
  found it very creepy
• 20:08
  like i was like i was a bit not enjoying it because i was
• 20:12
  scared of what was around
• 20:13
  the corner um the music's a little scary and the art style's a
• 20:16
  little scary and it
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: is not a scary game but i was like why is this world so
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that after enough runs, I got more comfortable in the house.
• 20:27
  But my first three hours,
• 20:29
  I was a little bit like,
• 20:31
  I really like these mechanics.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: I really like drafting rooms.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: I really like unlocking more information.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: But...
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's creepy.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like that.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Why is it so creepy?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I have a note on because I talked about it last game.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about how we could make it better.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't say it would necessarily need a slight horror punch up.
• 20:56
  But man,
• 20:56
  if you had the magnifying glass and you were looking at
• 20:58
  pictures and like an eye moved.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_00: Awful.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: My God.
• 21:02
  Like when I was looking at magnifying glasses in like pictures
• 21:05
  looking for stuff.
• 21:07
  I did feel like this sense of,
• 21:09
  oh my God,
• 21:09
  is something like behind me right now?
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think the game needed it, but man, if it did.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Everything about the game feels like that's what is going to happen.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah,
• 21:19
  like when I used the psychic thing and that he took over the
• 21:23
  screen with his face,
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: I actually did like get full chills.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh shit.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:29
  yeah um so yeah what was the puzzle what what puzzle was that
• 21:34
  so yeah basically you
• 21:36
  enter like a study and it's got like this he's got like scratch
• 21:40
  work that has the
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: outline of the house um it's a nine by five grid and in the very front
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like he's got like a hint that says face and ace.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't mean anything.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_00: And he has a few other examples.
• 21:55
  Like I don't I can't think of any off the top of my head,
• 21:58
  but like gate and great maybe.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it doesn't really mean anything to you at first.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then I met I went to Zoltar, Alzara, and he talks about use the art.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, okay, I wrote that down.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_00: And this is before I think any of them are related.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: This is just notes in my book here.
• 22:21
  And then I just remember,
• 22:22
  and I took a screenshot on my PlayStation when this happened.
• 22:25
  I was walking out of a room and I saw in this room a picture of
• 22:31
  a crow and a rowboat.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like staring at it.
• 22:36
  And I did the thing where I was like walking to leave the room
• 22:38
  and then I stepped back.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I looked at these two pictures on the wall and I was like, crow.
• 22:44
  row and then i thought about the room in the study and i was
• 22:47
  like wait maybe the
• 22:49
  room is associated with the letter that's different because
• 22:52
  face and ace and the
• 22:53
  and the uh room was an f and when you translate that to the
• 22:59
  nine by five it gives
• 23:01
  you this message that says let me look at my 30 pages of notes
• 23:04
  the nine by five of
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: um
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Of like the house layout, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: It goes nine deep and five across.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_00: It says a message.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: If we count small gates, eight dates crack eight safes.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: I never got that text.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things I looked up was what are the safe codes?
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because then I was like, oh, it's the dates in the room.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 23:34
  So sometimes that worked,
• 23:37
  but I have another thing where I had to look it up.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, this is dumb.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't want to solve the safe puzzle because whenever I was trying,
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: it took so long to fucking type it in.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to try and swear less.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: It was so annoying to type it in that I was like, I don't want to...
• 23:52
  keep testing theories this is not fun like i don't like typing
• 23:57
  in this little ui
• 23:58
  yeah yeah well one of them was particularly awful in the
• 24:02
  drafting room you're in
• 24:03
  like a small paper i don't know if you ever opened that one up
• 24:06
  but um it's like the
• 24:07
  time it's like uh i did yeah yeah so but anyways the yeah
• 24:13
  getting that code like
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: broken on natural was like damn that that felt like some detective shit
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but yeah.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that was one of my questions for like the game club of like,
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: what was your favorite puzzle that you solved?
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, proudest puzzle completion.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it'd probably be that one.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's definitely that one.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: That one was the moment.
• 24:35
  Like that's the,
• 24:37
  that's my usual suspects at the end where I'm like,
• 24:39
  Oh my God,
• 24:39
  like it was all.
• 24:41
  And that's what I think the game did very well is because you
• 24:44
  were given so much
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: subliminal exposure to puzzles and
• 24:49
  That I just felt with this repeat exposure and then the nature
• 24:52
  of like this,
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: this rogue aspect of the game,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: it could naturally come to you.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I really believed in it because I was like,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: this study to the Zoltar to the crow row picture.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, that's perfect.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's that is the game until it stopped happening.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was just like, I don't know what to do.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: I went to Zoltar like twice and he showed the same cutscene.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, this... That's really annoying.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Where's my difficulty, Slider?
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's super annoying.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the only... I wrote it down because I wanted to keep track of it.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_01: I only looked up three things in the game.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um...
• 25:31
  I looked up the safe codes,
• 25:33
  which ended up being like a couple extra gems.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't actually impact my ability to beat the game at all.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_01: I looked up the vac lights in the power room,
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: that puzzle with the like,
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: you have to turn them all purple.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Mainly because I was like,
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: it's really hard.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Are you now, are you talking about the solution or how to get there?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: How,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: or yeah,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: like,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: I know what I need to do,
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: which is like turn them all purple,
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: but like,
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really understand how clicking these things,
• 26:05
  how clicking these buttons is like is changing it to green and
• 26:08
  red and i'm like
• 26:09
  yeah okay i'm how do i get all of these purple that was the
• 26:11
  thing i looked up was
• 26:12
  just like a 30 second video of like click these ones in this
• 26:16
  order and then you do
• 26:17
  this pattern and then you get them all um and then the last one
• 26:20
  was the secret
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: garden wind vane puzzle of like how do i turn these uh
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: wind directional arrows.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: The veins, the wind veins.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_01: Put them all west or whatever it was.
• 26:35
  Those are the only three things that I looked up and that I was
• 26:39
  able to get to room
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: 46 with that just like some pretty minimal lookups.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: I was like quite...
• 26:46
  satisfied with the difficulty of this game i feel like you were
• 26:49
  like a little bit
• 26:50
  like the some of the first things you looked up and the first
• 26:54
  puzzles you solved
• 26:55
  were among the most like esoteric and meta in the whole game
• 27:00
  which makes you you're
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: like looking for ghosts in the closet kind of thing i don't know
• 27:06
  i what i ended up started looking for was it started like i had
• 27:10
  mentioned earlier
• 27:11
  is this relevant or like what is this relevant for so i can
• 27:14
  stop hyper fixating on
• 27:16
  it because i was like i need some sort of progression and i do
• 27:20
  think that it for me
• 27:22
  it did break a seal because then i don't i didn't take notes on
• 27:25
  what else i looked
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: up necessarily yeah but um i did end up just looking at
• 27:30
  looking up things more and more i lied too i definitely looked
• 27:34
  up the terminal
• 27:35
  password to swan song gotcha now that one is a magnifying glass
• 27:40
  on the oh are you
• 27:42
  on the notice okay because i use magnifying glass to solve
• 27:46
  other puzzles i kind of
• 27:48
  gave up after that i was like oh i don't need to use the
• 27:52
  magnify i never bought the
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: magnifying glass again after i got like
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: the code to the outside garden or whatever it was.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and maybe one other thing.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:01
  I think that I,
• 28:01
  I was like,
• 28:03
  Oh,
• 28:04
  I don't need the magnifying glass anymore.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_00: I solved that puzzle, but I, I ended up looking up what I needed it for.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I was like,
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: I,
• 28:12
  I can't keep chasing a magnifying glass if I don't know what I
• 28:15
  need this for.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't need it for much more.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 28:18
  But I did find a few things that I just overlooked,
• 28:21
  like in the security office.
• 28:22
  Apparently there is something in the magnifying glass that you
• 28:25
  could find where it
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: said like red or lies and green or blue or truth.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's like a small scribble down there.
• 28:31
  And I was like,
• 28:32
  I never would have taken the magnifying glass back into the
• 28:35
  security office.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: I found that out a different way in like a different room.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_01: there was text that said, yeah, blue memos are true.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Red memos are lies.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I literally,
• 28:47
  my first note of all my notes from like my journal is safe code
• 28:52
  is nine zero eight
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_01: three.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone had that.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then like five notes down, I have blue memos equal true.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: Red memos equal lies.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: Holy shit.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Fuck this.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Oh God.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I really liked the three box puzzle.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: Every time I did it, I was like... I'm a fucking genius.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: They're, like, not easy, but you never get them wrong.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: They're just, like, really satisfying.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's some really, like, low-hanging fruit puzzles.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I really enjoyed the dartboard puzzle.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: The math puzzles.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: I like the periodic table puzzle.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I...
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Did not like the... What's the... Is it the boiler room puzzle?
• 29:47
  Or like the...
• 29:49
  What's the room where you have to take all the water out of the
• 29:53
  fountain?
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's the pump room.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Pump room.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, oh, this is just mashing buttons.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I finally figured it out.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I was like, this is tedious.
• 30:03
  But I never had to do it again because I just left the fountain
• 30:06
  empty for the rest of the game.
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_00: I never actually emptied the fountain.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I heard there's a staircase down there.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I read that later.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: So that's like one of the ways that you get to one half of the aqueduct.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Did you get to the aqueduct through the tomb?
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I never did that puzzle.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: I got that puzzle naturally because I wrote down in the church.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, okay, each of these, the gardener, the...
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_00: the horse rider, they all have numbers next to them.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Surely that's going to be important later.
• 30:38
  And then as soon as I was in the tomb,
• 30:39
  I was like,
• 30:40
  I know what I need to do here.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Do it in the order.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: You guys are good ones.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: Those were my, in my notes, I have that as my aha moments.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I did do the back indicator in the power room all by myself.
• 30:55
  Cause yeah,
• 30:56
  just across different rooms,
• 30:57
  you have how it's supposed to operate.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then in the office safe, I think it tells you where,
• 31:04
  um what colors need to be in what order and then i just
• 31:08
  reinforced it um but yeah
• 31:11
  did you solve that little rubik's cube puzzle that was like in
• 31:14
  the shed um no i
• 31:17
  don't know what that is it was this little like did i write
• 31:22
  down what puzzle that
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: is um
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was basically, like, these little dots.
• 31:37
  Yeah,
• 31:37
  like,
• 31:38
  it was a little bit...
• 31:39
  So,
• 31:39
  like,
• 31:39
  every morning...
• 31:41
  Oh,
• 31:41
  it's the Mora Jai puzzle box.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: Mora Jai.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: M-O-R-A-J-A-I.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, you have to, like, move these.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes, I did one of those.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I did one as well.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know there were more, but I...
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: I enjoyed that one that what's,
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: what's the name of that room,
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: the,
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_01: that you unlock and you have to kind of,
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: it's called like the shed or something.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's like the outside room, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: I really enjoyed unlocking that room by opening the garage.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 32:15
  it was a little bit annoying at the start of each day to have
• 32:17
  to turn around and
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: then run out there and then run back.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_01: It was like a little bit annoying.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, uh,
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I'm just looking at my notes as well.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so what was your favorite room?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: The I did one of the science upgrades nook into the library.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: I really liked the library.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 32:49
  I like I love checking out books as someone who was doing it as
• 32:54
  much as I can.
• 32:54
  Naturally,
• 32:55
  I was like the library and these books are going to teach me
• 32:58
  how to play the game.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I liked that.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not only was there a free volume of game tips,
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_00: but when you went to the bookstore,
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_00: you could buy more volumes of
• 33:10
  like tips that the game would provide you yeah and for me i was
• 33:14
  like this is my
• 33:14
  only source of like progression of like how i'm supposed to
• 33:18
  play this game and so i
• 33:21
  liked the nook that was upgraded that always opened up a
• 33:24
  library next and then on
• 33:25
  top of that the library's buff was it enables uncommon rooms in
• 33:31
  your next draft and
• 33:32
  so it was like when you were deep in there and you could use a
• 33:35
  library like oh i'm
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_00: gonna get a weird room back here it's gonna be great
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: What about you?
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm looking through.
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_01: I have this room directory.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me send you this link of all of the rooms.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's funny.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really understand that the red rooms were bad for a long time.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_01: I kept wanting to get them.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that listening to the creator,
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_01: they are actually quite useful rooms because they have so many entrances.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I also like the red rooms.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: One of my,
• 34:07
  I increased my allowance by like five using the science
• 34:10
  terminal where it's like,
• 34:11
  SPEAKER_00: whenever you draft a red room,
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: increase your daily allowance by one.
• 34:14
  I got like,
• 34:15
  I was like,
• 34:16
  this is that run where I'm just going to do all red rooms.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, it was an amazing use of red rooms.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a few rooms I didn't ever got to.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm looking at the, like, I never got to room eight.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_01: I never did the gallery.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:30
  um i was trying to i really enjoyed like after like playing for
• 34:34
  six hours then like
• 34:35
  oh my god i've never gotten that room before yeah like i never
• 34:39
  went um in the uh um
• 34:43
  i already lost it the morning room i was never in the morning
• 34:47
  some of these are
• 34:47
  post post games because i think the gallery is after you do i
• 34:51
  did two runs after 46
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_00: and i was like i'm done
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, all I did was I just went in the gift shop.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I ended it.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: After I got room 46, I just went in the gift shop.
• 35:03
  And it was really cool to see all of the ways that the new game
• 35:07
  plus in this game
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: is deceivingly good in terms of what you could keep exploring.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think my favorite room...
• 35:17
  uh the first time i saw the aquarium i was like this is cool
• 35:21
  even though i never
• 35:21
  like used it strategically i was just like man these rooms kind
• 35:24
  of like go places
• 35:26
  um yeah i i also i did i never was in the chamber of mirrors
• 35:32
  that's cool uh i hated
• 35:35
  getting that room because you were like blocked off like yes it
• 35:39
  has four rooms but
• 35:40
  i think like you had to go in from the outside on each of the
• 35:44
  rooms and they were
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_00: like blocked off
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think the green rooms were probably my favorite.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I just enjoyed like getting shovels and seeing some fresh air.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think I just like, liked getting out of the house.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: Kind of like in real life.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I need to go touch grass.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: I need to go, I need to draft a green room.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that,
• 36:09
  I guess one thing we haven't really talked about is I think
• 36:12
  that the design of this
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: game is brilliant.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think that the roguelike nature of it,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: the estate,
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: the 5x9 grid,
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_01: the way you draft rooms and you have...
• 36:27
  currency that you need to manage to key cards but there's
• 36:31
  workarounds um you need
• 36:33
  to make sure like i love i really enjoyed drafting like more
• 36:37
  than puzzling honestly
• 36:38
  i think yeah that's something that people have talked about is
• 36:40
  like would you
• 36:41
  recommend this game to puzzle people or to roguelike people and
• 36:43
  i'm like i mean
• 36:45
  definitely it's both that's the whole point um but i would not
• 36:48
  have liked it if it
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_01: did not have the
• 36:52
  roguelike nature and then the roguelike nature really the rand
• 36:55
  rng and the drafting
• 36:57
  helped you stumble upon things versus if you're just put into
• 37:01
  like a puzzle box you
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_01: you kind of could just stare at something for forever and it kind of
• 37:08
  scoped the the play um nicely it can it can hard stop you more
• 37:14
  abruptly than than
• 37:15
  what this game could do because there is hope that you might
• 37:18
  stumble on a new room
• 37:19
  or even better your progression like with the science room and
• 37:24
  fixing your
• 37:24
  allowance or getting a cool coat check or like even combining
• 37:30
  an item and then
• 37:30
  SPEAKER_00: putting that in the coat check
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like even when a run felt lost when going to 46,
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_00: you were like,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: no,
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can,
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: I can salvage something here.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can, there's something I can do.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I could just YOLO it and try some things.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like,
• 37:45
  I think that's why it's good that the game hopefully ends
• 37:48
  around like the eight to
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: 12 hour mark,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: I think,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_01: or maybe like eight to 16,
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_01: eight to 20 hour mark,
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: because I,
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: I do think once you start,
• 37:58
  once you've learned like 40 rooms and you're every option that
• 38:02
  you're being shown
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_01: as a room,
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: well,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: it,
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_01: that if then you're like,
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: you need to move on kind of thing.
• 38:11
  Like you either need to be new game plus,
• 38:12
  or you need to be progressing towards the end game.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_01: because yeah,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_01: I never,
• 38:17
  the novelty of finding new rooms and connecting existing rooms
• 38:21
  did not wear off for
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_01: me.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: So my pacing was quite good.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: I might just add on... I do agree with all of that.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: I would just add maybe some more in-game hints.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: Give me some more nuanced Alzara hints or more accessible library books.
• 38:42
  Even just telling me something that might not necessarily be
• 38:44
  relevant to getting to
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_00: 46 versus,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: listen,
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: this is for three puzzles down the road,
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_00: or like three...
• 38:52
  you know yeah i feel like it's like maybe you needed less hints
• 38:56
  uh because like
• 38:57
  yeah i feel like you needed like to not know how many puzzles
• 39:02
  there were um yeah
• 39:04
  because i think for me i was like um i always had line of sight
• 39:09
  on getting like
• 39:12
  right around the time i was just enjoying myself unlocking
• 39:16
  things exploring new
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: rooms solving small puzzles and then i stumbled upon the secret garden
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: looked up what to do in the secret garden.
• 39:25
  And then all of a sudden I had my North star antechamber and I
• 39:29
  didn't have to,
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't care about a single puzzle after that.
• 39:32
  And then like all the puzzles after you get in the basement are
• 39:36
  very doable.
• 39:37
  Like the laundry,
• 39:38
  like cart puzzles,
• 39:40
  the rotating the doors to get to the right.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: areas like you don't need.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: I just was enjoying all of that, which was really nice.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad there wasn't this like final boss puzzle.
• 39:51
  So I think for me being able to like tunnel vision really
• 39:55
  helped me like versus if
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I got more hints to go solve puzzles I didn't care about.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: I might have like been annoyed.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I agree.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um,
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: yeah,
• 40:06
  I think a lot of my frustration honestly even came with the
• 40:09
  physicality of,
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_00: I have the controller sticks in my hand.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's something that is either new or a new data point.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'd have to put the controller down.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I did this with a journal.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: And,
• 40:20
  and I had to take out my pen and I have to make sure I reclick
• 40:24
  my pen so I don't
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: marker my couch,
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_00: but it felt very disruptive at times.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: And with how, uh,
• 40:32
  dedicated i was to trying to do it i do think that started to
• 40:35
  wear on me after six
• 40:36
  to eight hours totally yeah i took notes on my phone i took i
• 40:41
  did not take nearly
• 40:42
  the notes that you took um i did my notes were honestly more of
• 40:46
  my notes were for
• 40:48
  this podcast than puzzles too like i i really i i kind of was
• 40:53
  like if a puzzle is
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_01: so hard
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_01: that I'm binging this game and I can't remember what I need to know.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care about that puzzle.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: I was like,
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm trying to think of like,
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: like all the puzzles that helped me beat the game,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: whether they be the pump room or the,
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_01: the end game or the puzzle boxes or the darts or the like,
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't really need to solve any of the meta puzzles to get to room 46.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:25
  this might be and I agree and I think I was doing it for what I
• 41:30
  would consider the
• 41:31
  lore in some points I'm telling you I was in the library when
• 41:36
  you checked books out
• 41:37
  dude I was writing down when people were checking the books out
• 41:40
  and I was trying to
• 41:41
  compare it to the overall timeline I was like the lore is part
• 41:44
  of the puzzle I know
• 41:45
  it boss like just let me keep cooking and the answer was I'm
• 41:49
  sure it does help but
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not trying to build a wiki that's what I was trying to do
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_01: The lore is not part of the puzzle.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I watched... I want to send it to you.
• 42:01
  There's an amazing 15-minute story and lore of Blueprints
• 42:06
  YouTube video that
• 42:08
  i really enjoyed like because i i got hints of all these things
• 42:12
  but basically all
• 42:13
  those things that you're talking about the dates who's checking
• 42:15
  things out there is
• 42:17
  like a history of orindia which is like the continent there's a
• 42:22
  history of the
• 42:23
  sinclair family which goes back generations and then there's
• 42:27
  like what happened to
• 42:29
  your mom um and your mom's mom and all of that is really really
• 42:36
  interesting but
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: but not at all necessary to get to room 46 or even tangentially related.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like it is a puzzle to unlock.
• 42:45
  And another thing that people who want to explore every aspect
• 42:48
  of this game can
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_01: really enjoy,
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah,
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: not necessary at all for the,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_01: that's,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean,
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: that's what I wanted to try to do.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: And if I got, if I could, it was continued to,
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: I got more drip feed of it or I don't know.
• 43:02
  There was just a breaking point for me where I was like,
• 43:04
  I can't do this anymore.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Kudos to the people who can.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't really enjoy learning story and lore through
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: Not even just puzzle, but item descriptions, dates.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to write the 20-minute lore in my head.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_01: I want to read it or I want it be shown to be in a cutscene.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: Personally,
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_01: it's kind of like...
• 43:34
  Remember when you sent me that 100-page dissertation on the
• 43:38
  Bloodborne lore?
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: It is...
• 43:40
  the same thing like yeah it's all there it's all really
• 43:45
  fascinating it's all
• 43:46
  amazing world building and contextuals and this game is
• 43:50
  brilliant on so many levels
• 43:52
  the puzzles the design the lore the the jazz music the like the
• 43:58
  way in which all of
• 43:59
  those things thematically fit the puzzles themselves but that
• 44:04
  was just an aspect
• 44:05
  that i was like i'm gonna get it from a youtube video from from
• 44:08
  like the jump yeah
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I'm looking forward to the YouTube video you sent me.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I did in my head because I in the same way in my AAA games,
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: I also don't want to learn through the 10,000 notes that you'll just find
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: throughout the world.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: But I was like in this game where you're supposed to take it slow,
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: have a book,
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: really be the detective.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, let me give this a fair shake.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And for six to 10 hours, you had me.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then whether it be a combination of trying to get to 46,
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: not understanding that I didn't need every door to get to 46,
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: all those other things that I think I just burned myself out.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: The lore is really cool.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to hear your thoughts on the lore video.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: The other video that I watched,
• 44:49
  I only watched like two real videos that I think were worth
• 44:52
  sharing and putting in
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_01: the show notes.
• 44:53
  The other is the developer reacts to an 11 minute speed run of
• 44:57
  the game,
• 44:58
  which is amazing.
• 45:00
  IGN does this series where they have developers react to speed
• 45:03
  runs of their games.
• 45:05
  And the developers talk the whole time about like what the
• 45:09
  player is doing,
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: how they're bypassing things,
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: like
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this is like a no glitch speed run.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: So,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: yeah,
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: the person beat it in 11 minutes and the,
• 45:19
  the way that they have broken this game down to these finite
• 45:23
  parts is like so cool.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: And then just to hear the developers voice,
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_01: like really talk about what these rooms were supposed to be and,
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: and why this puzzle works the way it does was,
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: was really good as well.
• 45:36
  All in the context of watching someone beat this game in 11
• 45:39
  minutes from like
• 45:41
  day one um it's amazing it's sick yeah actually amazing
• 45:45
  especially because it's
• 45:46
  also an rng game so it's like yes i wonder what toggles got
• 45:49
  pulled or like what
• 45:50
  cues the speed runner had was like oh this is it this is my 11
• 45:54
  minute off shaving
• 45:55
  two minutes off of my 14 minute yeah and it shows how flexible
• 46:00
  the the runner is
• 46:02
  and the the depth of knowledge they have and the win conditions
• 46:06
  um because they uh
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: There is RNG, but there's a lot you can do to maximize the RNG.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, I like that.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a really cool video.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I do have because you've seen the lore video.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_00: I have my interpretation.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you want to listen to that and you just be like, oh, Lord, Patrick.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: Totally close.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: Totally.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: This would be very cool.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: So this is everything that I got from my context clues,
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_00: from my notes,
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: reading the five envelopes that I got.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Ultimately, yeah.
• 46:38
  the well at first a part of me was like is this a time travel
• 46:41
  game because I was
• 46:42
  tracking dates and I was like some of these dates aren't
• 46:45
  matching up turns out I
• 46:46
  chose the wrong date which is why because opening one of the
• 46:50
  dates or one of the
• 46:51
  envelopes requires you to open that time safe in the shelter
• 46:54
  and you had to know
• 46:54
  the current date and the game note in very few places tells you
• 46:58
  what the current
• 46:58
  date is and so I was doing math I was like it tells you the
• 47:02
  current date all the
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_00: time it is done in a few places
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not in the main menu or anything.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the current date.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's the day of your run.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 47:14
  Because I was like,
• 47:15
  yeah,
• 47:15
  the pantry tells you like there's 50% off on day 20 and 21.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: No, you're right.
• 47:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's not that's not November 3rd or whatever day it actually is.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: But anyways, basically it is the story of.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: An activist mother who had to be hidden by her well-to-do uncle,
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: who was very entrained or embedded in this authoritarian royal family.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: And basically, he hid her in this ever-changing room.
• 47:46
  And then the mother escaped north,
• 47:50
  but then went south across the lake to hide.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's kind of all I really had.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: And basically,
• 47:58
  the uncle kind of deals with the fallout between family members
• 48:01
  thinking that you
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: don't care about your daughter or thank you for your cooperation.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: He got blackmailed at one point by...
• 48:10
  some people and then the way I envisioned the game or what I
• 48:14
  hope the ending
• 48:14
  because I there was a note and then some context clues that I
• 48:18
  read in like a book
• 48:19
  where there is this pub that is open two days a week Wednesdays
• 48:23
  and Fridays and
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: that it's open to the public and a part of me was like maybe if you like
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: got the RNG, right.
• 48:32
  The game would like filter you out into this pub on Wednesday
• 48:37
  and you could like meet your mom.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like, that would be the true ending.
• 48:41
  But,
• 48:41
  um,
• 48:42
  yeah,
• 48:42
  that's,
• 48:43
  that's all the context clues that I got from my notes.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously there's more to it with the Sinclair and Epson family.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I don't know much about grandma Mary's mom.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so, but I did learn a little bit about Simon and,
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what you got,
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think you nailed,
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_01: which I didn't pick up any of that,
• 49:02
  but basically that your mom wasn't hiding in this very crazy
• 49:07
  room and she was
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_01: building these like,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: um,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, machinations.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that,
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_01: correct,
• 49:15
  there is a fascist authoritarian regime that your mom was
• 49:22
  rebelling ahead of the
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: resistance of.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that she is on the run, you nailed all of that.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: As far as the game says, you don't know what happened to your mom.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: You never meet her again.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know if she's alive or dead.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_01: That is never answered.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_01: That we know of.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's definitely behind a puzzle.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: True, true.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah,
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think that what is in the game,
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_01: which you didn't mention there,
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: is the history of Orindia,
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: which is the fantasy continent that this game takes place on.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: And basically...
• 50:01
  there were like there's multiple major cities and then it's
• 50:05
  kind of like ancient
• 50:06
  Greece it kind of reminds me of and basically these cities have
• 50:09
  like these warring
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: factions and then at some point in time like
• 50:16
  the city that either you're part of the Royal family from is
• 50:20
  either like overrun or
• 50:22
  there's a civil war or some sort of Q coup and the like
• 50:27
  political authoritarian
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_01: regime takes over.
• 50:31
  But there's like the other thing that it goes into is the many
• 50:35
  generate the family
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_01: tree of the Sinclair family goes back like five or six generations.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_01: There's actually quite... I'm going to watch this video again tonight.
• 50:47
  There's a lot of big personalities in this family and the way
• 50:50
  that they factor into
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: the history of the continent is quite interesting.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_01: Lady Clara Epson is...
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: your mother's mother, and she was exiled.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: So after four decades since the war,
• 51:08
  your great-grandfather and mother gave birth and continued the
• 51:17
  bloodline in exile
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: and
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: And then your mom,
• 51:21
  something happened on the continent because I watched this
• 51:24
  video a couple of weeks
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: ago,
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_01: but your mom returned to like society.
• 51:30
  Either there was some sort of like reunion or the,
• 51:35
  the war ended or whatever.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And she was a, I guess a writer who was like a journalist.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_01: And she would kind of,
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_01: She kept getting censored by the government,
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_01: and then she was writing kids' books that would get censored.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then eventually she just kept going deeper into the rebellion,
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_01: and then she became part of the rebellion.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, like, the game... Oh, that's the thing, is the...
• 52:10
  she stole the crown jewels crown yeah kind of which is really
• 52:15
  fun like in the
• 52:15
  context of the the louvre uh theft a few months ago um but
• 52:20
  basically and then she
• 52:21
  as like a sign of resistance she replaced the red jewels with
• 52:25
  the blue jewels um
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: and basically people don't really know what happened to the crown like
• 52:32
  they never found her but basically she had to go into hiding
• 52:34
  after the theft um and
• 52:37
  then someone else found out about this and blackmailed Sinclair
• 52:41
  your uncle um but
• 52:43
  then they were clearly like sympathetic um they didn't want to
• 52:47
  out out stir the pot
• 52:49
  too much yeah yeah but basically there's just so much cool
• 52:52
  symbolism of like you
• 52:55
  getting this crown at the end of the game or I don't even know
• 52:58
  if you do get it um
• 53:00
  I can't remember,
• 53:01
  but basically you are the blue prince because one,
• 53:05
  you're your mother's heir.
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: You are literally a prince, part of the royal family.
• 53:11
  But you finding it is you learning your family's history and
• 53:18
  your mother's...
• 53:20
  cause and then you reaching the room is you literally like
• 53:25
  crowning yourself with
• 53:26
  the blue crown that your mother stole as like symbolism of the
• 53:30
  resistance and
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: you're
• 53:33
  understanding and then you're like coming of age it's like it's
• 53:36
  all the lore does
• 53:39
  enhance the game it's not just a story in the game it like
• 53:43
  contextualizes the
• 53:44
  estate it contextualizes the puzzles it contextualizes your
• 53:47
  goal it contextualizes
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_01: what happened to your mom um so
• 53:51
  and yeah so like i i didn't just watch it and i was like oh
• 53:55
  that was really
• 53:56
  interesting and like a cool story i was like oh like that's why
• 54:00
  the like the
• 54:01
  underground was built for this reason and that it was hidden
• 54:04
  for these reasons so
• 54:06
  that like investigators couldn't just come and like like burn
• 54:10
  the place down the
• 54:11
  place over yeah and like all this cool stuff um basically is is
• 54:16
  all in there yeah
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_00: excellent
• 54:19
  that's amazing i am i think i definitely picked up on a lot of
• 54:22
  that a part of me
• 54:23
  was like honestly one of the biggest windows was like the the
• 54:26
  blue because i
• 54:27
  remember i read the sigil book or sigil book and it had some of
• 54:31
  the countries in
• 54:32
  there yeah and i know some of the symbols represent colors of
• 54:36
  different countries
• 54:38
  and i'm now i like quickly thumb through my notes i'm like
• 54:40
  which one was blue and
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_00: is that the one that i'm like the
• 54:43
  era yeah even like the blue memos the blue memos are true the
• 54:47
  red memos are lies
• 54:49
  that's pretty good the red rooms have negative effects um
• 54:53
  there's like quite a lot
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: there um and yeah like you can't miss like
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_01: the overtones of like your mother and the,
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: why she went on the run and the authoritarian regime,
• 55:06
  but it didn't feel like I was part of that story as much until
• 55:11
  I read the,
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: or until I watched that,
• 55:14
  SPEAKER_01: that story explainer.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me,
• 55:18
  I felt a little part of it because you can rent your mom's
• 55:22
  books in the library.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like,
• 55:25
  I know I'm sacrificing like understanding how the pump room
• 55:28
  works or the volume of,
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: how to draft rooms.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like,
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: After you learn your mom's pen name, you're like, oh, mom wrote that.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: I have it in my notes.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, mom wrote this book.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's cool because she had a pen name.
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then as I read it, I was like, oh, this has a greater meaning.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was so simple and I was like,
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: I not wasted a whole resource,
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: but you basically waste two days,
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: one checking out the book and two reading it.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, no, this means something.
• 55:56
  And I didn't necessarily know what yet,
• 55:59
  but I did like that the game makes you feel that.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, very authentic.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think one of the final questions I have,
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: did RNG improve or detract from your experience?
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: We talked about that a little bit.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: I thought it was a good thing.
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like I wasn't angry that the game had RNG.
• 56:18
  And then finally,
• 56:19
  how does this compare to your favorite puzzle games of all
• 56:21
  time?
• 56:23
  it's it's tough we don't have a lot yeah and it's i agree
• 56:26
  portal is a good one i
• 56:28
  know it's kind of trite but um in terms of your enjoyment of
• 56:32
  this game and like
• 56:34
  whether you recommend it and where you're really glad with your
• 56:35
  time with it like
• 56:37
  would you care to rate it on a scale of 10 just to get a sense
• 56:41
  of like or you don't
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_01: have to but like did you like this game
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, it was... Okay.
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is it number two?
• 56:55
  I was so fresh off of Claire Obscura,
• 56:59
  and I'm like,
• 56:59
  that's such a biased game.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm like, is this game really number two?
• 57:03
  SPEAKER_00: It was a good game.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was a unique game.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: There wasn't enough...
• 57:08
  because I play single-player action games,
• 57:11
  there wasn't enough oomph for me.
• 57:13
  Nor was there enough charm to lead back to the original
• 57:16
  question of what's your
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_00: favorite puzzle game.
• 57:18
  I did just love how charming Portal was,
• 57:22
  how funny it was,
• 57:23
  how cute when you would die.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_00: This felt very serious, albeit slow sometimes.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_00: And then the sourness of when I had to cheat does feel...
• 57:36
  poor like me cheating in a crossword puzzle where i've lost the
• 57:39
  point of doing the
• 57:40
  crossword puzzle yeah yeah i that's all super valid if it made
• 57:47
  we didn't really do
• 57:48
  our favorite games of last year would it make your top 10 games
• 57:51
  of last year
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe at the back half for sure.
• 57:57
  That study to learning how the words on the 9x5 worked,
• 58:04
  that was like,
• 58:04
  this is special.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if I had gotten three or four of those at a routine pace,
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would have been like,
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: absolutely.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: But I do think I was either too dumb or too impatient or too...
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_00: obsessed with taking notes,
• 58:18
  SPEAKER_00: which I thought the notes needed to make those things happen naturally.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's like the first thing they tell you kind of thing.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 58:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think I enjoyed it a lot more than you.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think I would have it like a 9 out of 10,
• 58:31
  and I would say it's my second favorite puzzle game of all time
• 58:34
  after The Portals.
• 58:37
  I really liked it a lot more than The Witness,
• 58:39
  and I really liked The Witness.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: I really like...
• 58:44
  The first six to eight hours I would characterize as just a
• 58:49
  game mechanic and designer's dream.
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_01: I was really just enthralled by the drafting mechanic,
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: the rooms themselves,
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_01: how they all each had their own individual mechanics.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_01: I really liked the...
• 59:08
  like how fresh of a game it felt like i was like i've never
• 59:11
  played anything like
• 59:12
  this like nothing i really was enjoying how fresh it was
• 59:16
  feeling because i really
• 59:17
  just didn't know what was around the corner and then the final
• 59:20
  four hours um
• 59:22
  they really did crescendo quite quickly after i started looking
• 59:25
  a couple things up
• 59:27
  um and like that final run where i made it to the the bottom
• 59:32
  solved all of those
• 59:32
  puzzles and made it to the room and then got the cut scene it
• 59:38
  was a crescendo and a
• 59:40
  wave of just like one like satisfaction for having reached room
• 59:45
  46 in this game
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: that uh
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_01: without this game club,
• 59:50
  I don't think I would have ever played this game and not just
• 59:54
  been stressed and
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_01: just wanted to go play like,
• 59:57
  teamfight tactics are just something like less mentally taxing
• 1:00:00
  i felt such
• 1:00:01
  satisfaction i felt like it was so cool like i felt like i
• 1:00:05
  earned it um and i
• 1:00:07
  really like i i liked the lore i just like um as a singular
• 1:00:13
  experience where i did
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: get to feel smart and i did i couldn't believe that they crafted the
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_01: this arc that got me to that point of getting into the room.
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so yeah, I, I really, I really loved it.
• 1:00:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um,
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: so yeah,
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_01: that was my,
• 1:00:31
  SPEAKER_01: my feeling at the,
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_01: I had like nothing but like glowing appreciation after I finished.
• 1:00:36
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't have all the frustration.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's good.
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's really good.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: And any world, I guess, did anything like,
• 1:00:47
  For the true final ending or the extra puzzles,
• 1:00:50
  does any of that interest you?
• 1:00:52
  Even like seeing someone else solve them or like what is at the
• 1:00:55
  end of all those puzzles?
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Is it more lore?
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good point because I...
• 1:01:00
  I could see there was a new game plus I could see that there
• 1:01:03
  was so much clearly
• 1:01:04
  just from this conversation that I did not see or understand
• 1:01:08
  and I was like nope
• 1:01:09
  like I'm gonna end on a high it was so yes it was so obvious
• 1:01:13
  that it was only
• 1:01:14
  downhill from there to me that I did get to like walk away on a
• 1:01:18
  high um no I I
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_01: agree like I'm not that gamer I'm not that person that um
• 1:01:24
  Like my coworker was saying that their,
• 1:01:26
  their partner like spent like 40 hours in this game.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, and they loved every second of it.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, Nope.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: Like I saw my, I saw my little tiny puzzles.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I cheated.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I still felt, I still felt smart.
• 1:01:39
  I'm like,
• 1:01:40
  I'm not going to open my,
• 1:01:41
  I'm not going to open my heart to this game.
• 1:01:45
  Um,
• 1:01:45
  it was,
• 1:01:46
  it was the experience that I,
• 1:01:48
  I felt like,
• 1:01:49
  I guess that you could say like,
• 1:01:50
  I
• 1:01:51
  SPEAKER_01: I saw and appreciated why some people had it as their number one,
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: uh,
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_01: or whether one of their favorite games of all time.
• 1:01:58
  SPEAKER_01: And like,
• 1:01:59
  I think that only a game like this could elicit that much
• 1:02:03
  passion and I could see
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: the roots of that passion.
• 1:02:07
  And I felt so happy for having appreciated it,
• 1:02:10
  even if it wasn't my experience.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was, it was all just like very cool.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I just think, um,
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the luck in which I stumbled upon beating the game,
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: I felt not really luck,
• 1:02:25
  SPEAKER_01: but like lack of distraction.
• 1:02:28
  I did not feel like it was an overly obtuse puzzle game,
• 1:02:33
  which was my biggest fear going in.
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: But based on your experience and other people's experience,
• 1:02:38
  I feel very fortunate that it did not become an overly obtuse
• 1:02:42
  puzzle game for me.
• 1:02:44
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's great.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_00: Eloquently said,
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: and I do,
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm happy for you that you naturally were like,
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: okay,
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: let me try to brute force this greenhouse or a secret garden approach.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then for it to work, it's just like beautiful hours of RNG.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I could have had a horrible time.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_00: You could have had a horrible time.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think I love that for you and not an ironic way,
• 1:03:05
  SPEAKER_00: but like,
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_00: that is the kind of thing where it's like,
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: man,
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_00: I got to try this.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: I know the strategy is going to work.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: And boom, when it does, that is chef's kiss.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: I got so lucky.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: It worked too quickly.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:19
  Well,
• 1:03:20
  anything else that you wanted to ask or add before I have to
• 1:03:23
  pee so bad?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that's good.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_00: I think, unfortunately, the lavatory is like the worst room in the game.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you got to go draft that.
• 1:03:34
  There were some rooms like that where I was like,
• 1:03:37
  is there really nothing to this room?
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:40
  I was like,
• 1:03:41
  is this room...
• 1:03:42
  When you draft this,
• 1:03:43
  is this literally just nothing?
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I was so annoyed.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: The early book games say sometimes drafting those early is good,
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: so you don't draft them in the back half.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_01: Which they talk a lot about in the speedrun.
• 1:03:56
  I'd never played like that,
• 1:03:58
  and you're supposed to draft all the dead ends early.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was just the whole time,
• 1:04:03
  SPEAKER_01: the whole game,
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_01: just drafting to avoid dead ends most of the time,
• 1:04:07
  SPEAKER_01: unless it was the key room or...
• 1:04:10
  the closet something a dead end that i wanted not just a dead
• 1:04:13
  end for the sake of
• 1:04:14
  drafting a dead end yeah i will say to your point about not to
• 1:04:18
  continue because you
• 1:04:19
  clearly gotta be but um a i did like that because we talked
• 1:04:24
  about this in ball pit
• 1:04:25
  where the in-game didn't give me as many hints or like ways to
• 1:04:30
  get to all the stuff
• 1:04:30
  like that was in the game it does tell you somewhere in one of
• 1:04:33
  the volumes like
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_00: draft draft the red ones early and
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, that's that's good.
• 1:04:37
  That's really good that both the intention of the designer and
• 1:04:41
  yes,
• 1:04:41
  you had to work for it.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_00: But like that's knowledge worth working for.
• 1:04:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I do appreciate that it could be all contained in the game.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_00: Man, if I just just like.
• 1:04:51
  clear obscure i need a difficulty accessibility meter for
• 1:04:54
  puzzles because it's so
• 1:04:56
  hard that's why like i don't think like i doubt we're gonna
• 1:05:00
  pick a puzzle game the
• 1:05:01
  rest of the year for our game because like neither of us are
• 1:05:04
  like both of us
• 1:05:06
  there's a 90 chance that we'll get burned and like this game i
• 1:05:10
  was very grateful
• 1:05:11
  that i did not get burned but puzzle games are painful and you
• 1:05:15
  got to be the right
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: kind of person yeah for sure
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_01: I did not like any of the bedrooms.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was like, oh, it's just like, oh, it's so boring.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: I made my spare bedroom is that which is awful.
• 1:05:27
  I was like,
• 1:05:28
  I didn't know what I was doing at the time,
• 1:05:29
  but yeah,
• 1:05:30
  it's fine.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_01: The floppy disk upgrades were a neat mechanic.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of mechanics in this game.
• 1:05:36
  There's so many mechanics,
• 1:05:37
  the items,
• 1:05:38
  the did you ever get into like combining the items?
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: A little bit.
• 1:05:41
  SPEAKER_00: I combined like two items.
• 1:05:43
  SPEAKER_00: I did like at the end or like in the library, you could get
• 1:05:46
  in the top room or up the small staircase,
• 1:05:49
  you could see all of the things that you had done.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was basically like a highlight reel of everything you've done.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_00: And like all your contraptions,
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: you looking at the stars,
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_00: the stars were a fun mechanic.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: There are a lot of fun mechanics.
• 1:06:02
  And as you really got to familiarize yourself,
• 1:06:04
  you were just like,
• 1:06:05
  oh,
• 1:06:05
  sweet.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like we had mentioned earlier,
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: if the room isn't,
• 1:06:08
  SPEAKER_00: if the run isn't going well,
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: let me go collect constellations.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: Let me go check out a book.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_00: Let me go grind money.
• 1:06:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because I unlocked one of the other rooms and a coat check.
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I can buy an expensive item and then store it for the next run.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_00: All those kind of stuff.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: He fits so much into it.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's so many cool... None of the mechanics, to me, felt... Wasted.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: Unwasted, yeah.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_01: Did you ever buy anything in the showroom?
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_00: I bought one item, I think, where it was like you can keep...
• 1:06:37
  SPEAKER_00: like two or three items to the next day or something like that.
• 1:06:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think that all of those stuff in there costs,
• 1:06:43
  like I never had more than like 14 gold the whole time I played
• 1:06:46
  this game.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's very rare conditions that you could.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:50
  SPEAKER_01: I never got into like some of those like econ mechanics.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'm going to go pee.
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: Looking forward to Promise Mascot Agency.
• 1:07:01
  And then,
• 1:07:02
  yeah,
• 1:07:02
  looking forward to chatting with you soon about the lore video
• 1:07:07
  and the speedrun.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: Excellent.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:07:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks so much, Ben, for having me.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I got.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another book club, game club, and the books.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Take care.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_01: Bye.
• 1:07:22
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: Much love.