Latest / Behind The Village Podcast / Redefining Success as a Creative And a Parent | Anne Douris

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Redefining Success as a Creative And a Parent | Anne Douris · Behind The Village Podcast

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You're listening to the Behind the Village podcast,
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where we invite you to join us on a journey to
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understand how to live a life worth living. Our
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guest today is the multifaceted Anne Duras. Not
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only is she a mom of a toddler, but she has her
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own production company that specializes in animation,
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a large chunk of that being title design and
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credit design. She's done fully animated pieces
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for things like music videos. She has a background
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in set design for Kids TV. She also does some
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work in show development and concept artwork
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for new shows being pitched. I wanted to know
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how she got into so many interesting things.
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And not only that, but how she balances it all.
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For me, my history has always just been like
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saying yes to a lot of things because you never
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really know where those things are going to lead.
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So I have a really varied work history just because
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it's like, okay, I've got some downtime. I'll
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do this thing. And then, you know, like I took
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an art department job on a kid's show and then
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that like led me down an entirely new career
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path. So that's kind of my approach to everything
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is variety. That's really cool. Yeah. I relate
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a lot on that because I have been pretty much
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the same way in that I just say yes to a lot
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of things and see where it takes me. Because
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of that, I have like a very wide experience right
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on my field of work. But that also makes it a
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really challenging concept of being able to keep
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up with everything that I have learned or all
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these different avenues or opportunities that
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are coming up is like, should I take this on?
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But there's another opportunity from this other
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thing that I have done that is also possible.
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You know, like, how do you have balanced that
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concept? Well, I think this will probably be
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something we talk about quite a lot, which is
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learning how to say no. And that's been a big,
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like, especially since having my kid, it's been
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a big shift of being like, okay, I really need
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to be more decisive. And because I used to work
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12 hours a day and I, you know, I would just
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make it all work no matter how many projects
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I had on the go at once. Now it's like there
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are much clearer limits. So like my kid comes
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home and I basically can't do anything else.
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So trying to determine. you know, what's not
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only going to pay the bills, but bring me more
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towards my actual goals and not just like, not
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just going to be fun and interesting. I try to
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do things that are fun, but sometimes I don't
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have that luxury anymore. But it's really hard
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to have a clear picture of what your real goals
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are. That's an ongoing moving target, right?
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What changed for Anne over the course of her
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career? Life happens. some of it out of our control.
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Did her perspective change or shift in recent
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years? COVID did have an impact on my workflow
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quite a bit. It was amazing. I got into this
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space where I had so much time on my hands and
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I was getting really back to my fundamentals
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with art and music too because I'm a musician.
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But when you just are working only and aren't
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seeing your friends and aren't going on trips
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and aren't doing anything, it really became clear
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to me. that I needed more to my life than work.
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I can keep cramming the work in, but I was feeling
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increasingly less fulfilled by it. So before
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I had my kid, I kind of did reach that point
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where I was like, okay, this is only going to
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be able to ever fulfill so much of my life. And
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I started to prioritize things differently in
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the years approaching having my kid. Yeah. So
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you, I guess, Would you say that before having
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a kid or before reaching that stage, your life,
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it sounded like it was pretty much just like
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work, go to bed and then go do it all over again?
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Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, I was working on right
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before COVID hit. I was working on like set or
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just like 12 hour days. And then I had like other
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gigs that I was kind of trying to squeeze in
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around it. So really, literally was like work,
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sleep. And when I had my kid, like, well, it
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kind of started to shift because even when I
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was pregnant, I couldn't I just couldn't work
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the same way. Like, I literally couldn't sit
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at this table. So it was like I had to start
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peeling back and like taking more personal time.
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And but it really shifted my attitude towards
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my work. Like, I still love what I do, but I
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don't it doesn't have the obviously with a kid,
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it doesn't have the top. priority place anymore
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but like it's quite a bit lower down in the things
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that i truly care about now um and part of that's
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also just getting older i suppose i'm just a
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little a little wiser and have more responsibilities
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did you feel that that was a hard transition
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because i know for people that work a lot and
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i consider uh, myself probably as one of them.
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My father has always been like that as well,
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that just, you know, you work as much as you
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can or you work for as long as you can, but you
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reach a point where it's like, okay, this is
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enough. Like this is too much. Like this is not,
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this is not working. This is not fulfilling,
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et cetera. And when you're trying to slow down,
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it feels like it, I don't know, it almost feels
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like there is a part of you that has this guilt
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of like, Am I just like giving up? Like I should
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be I should keep pushing because I think that's
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kind of what the world is trying to tell us or
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trying to always kind of instill in us that you
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should always growth at all costs. And slowing
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down feels like I am, I don't know, not good
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enough. I certainly know what you're talking
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about. The big struggle there. for me anyway,
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was learning how to extricate myself, my value
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of myself from my success in my job. Because
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I always just really tied those things together.
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As long as I was doing well with work, I was
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a good person and I had value. And realizing
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that it's like, oh, like I got to learn how to
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live with myself even if I'm not performing.
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You know what I mean? And that's not an easy
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task, you know, to... to learn to like yourself
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based on, you know, unconditionally essentially.
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Yeah. And then a part of that though, was also
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as I got older, having increased sort of class
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consciousness and realizing that it's like, there's
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all this value on productivity for very clear
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reasons that are not really for us personally.
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You know what I mean? And just being like, oh,
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right. Like I was like a, you know, I was a good
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student. I always like had to like have the best
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grades. I was really like that kind of kid. And
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to me, like. I just funneled right into that
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work mindset of like, do well at work, you're
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doing good. And like realizing that it's like,
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oh, that's my time in life is being extracted
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away from me for someone else's benefit. What
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about after having her kid? How has she stayed
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sane and managed to run a business and parent?
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Ultimately, you can't really control other people's
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production pipelines. So sometimes everybody
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suddenly needs you at once. And it is crazy.
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You know, I definitely have have spreads of weeks
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where it's just like I can't live this way. But
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that being said, it's like I live that way for
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eight hours and then I'm completely off for the
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rest of the day. You know, I really try to like
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have a hard out. Maybe after my kid goes to bed,
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I might get a little bit more work done. you
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know, having really clear boundaries is important
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to me. And like, I don't answer emails after
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a certain time of day. Like it's just, you kind
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of have to just be that person who puts those
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walls up and then people learn to respect them.
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I think a lot of artists come from a sort of
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starvation mindset where it's just like, oh,
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there's an opportunity. I have to take it right
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now. And that bleeds into the way that we operate
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our businesses where it's like, got to stay 100
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% on top of it because I might never get this
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back. Or at least being self -employed, that's
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often the feeling that it is. You have to be
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1000 % present for your client or else they could
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move on. But realistically, that's not really
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what happens. They hire you because they want
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you to do something, not because you're like...
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immediately available at all times um so kind
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of learning that i always think about that like
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uh that jurassic park moment with the the guy
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who plays newman is like see nobody cares you
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know what i mean exactly nobody cares like it's
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not like not everybody is is being this molecular
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about every single thing that you do right yeah
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and uh yeah so i try to just have a bit more
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of a relaxed attitude now yeah How does, I guess,
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the idea of, because I know self -care is always
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a big topic, but how do you try and not only
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maintain that balance between parenting and work
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life, but how do you fit time for yourself to
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make sure that you're taking care of yourself?
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Yeah, I mean, it's not always easy, but I do
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try to like give myself grace. Like, you know,
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today's a Monday. I'm the most tired on a Monday
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morning. after being with the kid all weekend,
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right? So usually Monday mornings, it's like,
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I'll have my shower after my kid leaves. I like
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work pretty slowly. I like tidy up, you know,
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this is the thing about working at home, right?
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Is that my office is also where all this chaos
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just occurred. So it's like being like, this
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is just a part of the workflow is also like,
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if you think about yourself, I mean, you are
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your business. Like I'm the main driving force
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behind my business. It's like, this is a part
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of doing business is taking, making sure that
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I can function. So that lens helps. But more
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practical things like, I mean, I've got a dog.
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I take her for a walk every day. That is immensely
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helpful. It's so frustrating. But like the solution
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to so many of your problems is just a little
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bit of exercise. It's like it's so annoying that
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that's the answer. But it often is. And yeah,
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I'm like, you know, therapy. I've got acupuncture
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later today. All these little things that just
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you try to. keep your stress managed and and
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you know not not ever let it not let things boil
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over but it's it's not easy balance is such a
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big part of it right because i feel like i get
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i'm the same way where i'm like okay i'm gonna
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run every day that's me now i'm gonna be a runner
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and it's like and like for the summer like i
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ran every other day and i was like i'm amazing
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i run now and it's like one thing changes in
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my schedule i'm like i don't run anymore that's
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it it's it's i try to find this balance of like
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do what feels good like If your body is telling
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you like you need to rest right now, then you
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try to take it easy. Not always trying to like
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force yourself into things, but then that balance
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of like, but know when you really need to push
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yourself out of your comfort zone. And I'm very
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much in a phase of my life with a toddler where
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I'm just kind of rolling with things. Like there's
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only so many grand plans that I can really reasonably
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have right now. So it's like trying to listen
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to your body is a big part of that. This is a
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bit of an aside. But I'm going to throw a book
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recommendation into the mix here, which is, I
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don't know if you guys know it, it's called 4
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,000 Weeks. And I can't remember the name of
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the author offhand, but 4 ,000 Weeks. I've heard
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the book though. Yeah, it's the average lifespan
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of a human being. And so this book is really
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about like, you know, we can talk a lot about
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big plans and like huge potential and making
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like the most effective use of all of your time.
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But it's really about like understanding your
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limitations. recognizing that you just don't
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have that much time really and trying to choose
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things that point you towards things you really
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care about and not you know the whole massive
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things we're told we should care about but you
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know so like we have these limitations around
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what we're able to do in a day now like the amount
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of resources you have are just fewer you have
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fewer hours to achieve these things one really
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positive change that i found from having a kid
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in having this new schedule is that I'm much
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more decisive. Like with work, it's like, I'm
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like clear, like I'm so much more clear about
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what I need and what I want and what I want to
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do. Like I found that my relationships with my
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clients has kind of been streamlined because
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it's just like, no, this is going to go this
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way. This is it. I made the decision. I've got,
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I've taken on a more authoritarial tone and it's
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just like, it's helped me become much more clear
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sighted about what I'm trying to do. Does that
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make sense? Like it's, it's. forced me into this
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position of not being able to waffle and be wishy
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-washy and take too long to make creative decisions.
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Do you struggle with guilt? Like guilt with like
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work and guilt with parenting? Because I do.
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Like when I'm working too much and I'm like,
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nah, I'm not paying enough attention, you know.
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Gosh, I'm a really firm believer that guilt is
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just not a useful emotion. I come from a household
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where guilt was like the currency. That's like
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we're a passive -aggressive bunch. It really
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is hard to get out of your system. But it doesn't
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really have a function for us. You can feel guilty,
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but it doesn't get you any closer to anything.
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It doesn't make anything better. So whenever
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I have feelings of remorse or guilt like that,
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I really try to put them aside. I spend a lot
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of time with my kid. I do like I'm with them
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all weekend. I'm with them for dinner. I'm with
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them in the morning. Like I sometimes I feel
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bad about the fact that he has to spend eight
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hours at daycare every day and that I'm not there.
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But he also likes to be out in the world and
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he's like he's my kid and I don't own him, though.
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Like it's like he's got to have his life and
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he's on his own journey. So and I'm here, you
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know, keeping the lights on. And like, you know,
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like it's like there's a division of things that
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need to happen. And as much as I. like sometimes
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feel a little like queasy about how much he has
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to spend with another parent figure. It's this
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is just the way that it has to function. Like
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there's no I don't really see the alternative.
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So I don't let that stuff get to me too much.
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No, I was just interested because that's just
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something that I sometimes struggle with where
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it's like, oh, I'm you know, I didn't see much
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of my kids today and they're kind of asking for
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me or whatever. And then it's like, did I not
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give? enough of myself to them or am i taking
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too much for me as a individual you know like
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i feel like you can very confidently say that
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you're not taking too much for yourself as a
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parent i don't think that that happens very often
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this is true um i i understand what you mean
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i like every day is a mixture of these emotions
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right and every day is a little different but
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again i think it's really trying to acknowledge
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that you do the best that you can and So much
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is asked of us as parents now more than ever,
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like having to have two incomes to maintain a
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household. Like, you know, I didn't make that
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decision for the cost of living to be so high.
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No, two jobs minimum. Like most people each have
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a job and then side hustles. Exactly, right?
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Just to get by, like not even to get ahead. Yeah,
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absolutely. So, I mean, and then you pay for
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child, like we're in the... thick of paying for
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child care right now that's like rent basically
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like so it's what i used to pay for rent in toronto
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on top of our mortgage you know so it's like
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you know you have to make these choices i know
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some parents uh they'll make the decision because
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i mean you're in some cases you end up just sort
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of breaking even right it's like i work all day
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and make almost the same amount as what i paid
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to daycare or whatever i'm not really in that
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phase of my life right now thankfully but it
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is like you make these balanced decisions and
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you're essentially just keeping yourself in the
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game That's more what it is than anything else.
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It's not about getting ahead and making a ton
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of money while your kid's in care. It's like
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I need my career to be preserved for when he's
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in school. Like I can't just like sit out. It's
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such a publish or perish culture for the arts,
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right? Like you need to be making stuff and present
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in people's faces or else the work doesn't keep
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coming. A really interesting perspective from
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Anne regarding her approach to balancing parenting
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and work. How does the supportive community come
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into the picture? You know, we talk about decisions
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that you have to make to make things work. Like
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we moved to Orillia before we had our kid. And
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being here where my family is, it's like basically
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allows us to have jobs. it was such a hard choice
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because there's so much work in the city. And
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like, I basically had to give up working on set
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when I moved here. Cause it's like, I'm not going
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to drive to the city for 12 hour day. Like I
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did it for a while, but it's like, it's just,
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it's not sustainable. Can't definitely can't
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do it with a kid. So like I had to sort of change
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the way that I worked in order to be closer to
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my family. And so we do have those supports.
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If we lived in the city, maybe we'd have more
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work, but we'd have way less. flexibility and
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help we'd be paying so much more for like babysitters
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and additional child care so it's like it's really
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a give and take in terms of like how you make
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these things kind of dovetail together it's like
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sometimes you have to let go of certain opportunities
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in order to get the help you need to sustain
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the ones hopefully that matter to you a little
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bit more there's such an individualization of
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our culture now like we're all putting these
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little silos and you're just especially you know
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you work at home on top of that it's like you're
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just like in your little silo all day long and
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On top of that, we've got this brain drain to
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the cities where it's like all the work is in
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the cities. People just have to go there. So
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you get people having to make these decisions
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to move away from their communities and their
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families. When you have kids, family is just
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so huge. It's such a big part of making it work.
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And also for my kid's sake, I want him to be,
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it's not just the help that they gave me. I also
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want him to have this experience of being around
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extended family. We kind of found ourselves in
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this position of having an incredible community
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of just neighbors. And we're really social people.
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Like Nick and I, we really can't walk down the
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street and not talk to you if we see you. So
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building that community has been a huge thing
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for us, too. I found that leaving the city has
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really changed the way that I exist in the world
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in that way. Community crops up in surprising
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places. When I was pregnant, my friend took me
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along to a prenatal yoga class, which is like,
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I'm not a yoga person. don't like workout classes
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i'm just not really that kind of person who goes
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to like a physic fitness class of any kind um
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but i went because she pulled me along and this
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class ended up being like this huge thing for
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me like all of these mothers all babies during
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the same time we have like a postpartum group
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that we all were a part of and it was like we
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now have a whatsapp chat that's been going on
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for like almost three years and like we all see
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each other at like special times of the year
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and it's like there's this group we've created
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out of this and these are now these are like
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my friends and it's like it's really allowed
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me to meet more families in this town and like
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have more of a community but it's like you've
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got to take that first step to go to that place
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you don't really want to go like it's just you
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have to go you have to go do things you have
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to get out of the house and i think it's really
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hard for young people now because it Being on
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a smartphone gives you this illusion of things
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just like you can have it all, but you don't
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have to get out of your chair. It's like the
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community's all there, the connection's all there,
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but it's all so low stakes. Like you can just
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leave something at any time and there's no real
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repercussions. It's like physically being present
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is just so important for your mental health and
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for your connection to community. Like it just,
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you have to go, like gotta go out. Go to the
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thing and then talk to people. You have to actually
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just like get out of your comfort zone and talk
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to people. I think the low stakes is a really
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interesting point. And that's something I've
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flagged even for myself a little bit is I'll
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think, oh, I really want to do this thing. But
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it's like, oh, this commitment's going to I'm
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not going to be able to back out if I decide
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I'm. kind of over it partway through, you know,
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and it's just like, it's easier now to just not,
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or like you said, to not push yourself out of
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that comfort zone or to stay at home and be like,
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it's easier if I just don't go. No. And it's
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such a thing. I think it's for our generation.
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Like, I know like the joy of bailing is such
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a thing for people our age, I think. And it's
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like, it kind of got a little bit, yeah, it got
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like a little too acceptable. I think, I think
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we made it, we gave people too much of a pass
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to bail. like it's like they're no it's like
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it's actually you're not supposed to do that
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like when you need to when you need to do it
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and you really need to do it and like you're
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like your friends are supposed to get there and
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everyone's kind of like I don't really want to
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do this then that's you know whatever but I do
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really really really believe that even when you
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don't want to show up you got to show up um because
20:16
that's the only way you're going to get any of
20:17
the benefits of these things uh and and like
20:20
you know for example ODAC like I was on the board
20:22
for about a year and like I did eventually have
20:24
to step back because it was like my work is too
20:26
crazy I've got a toddler like I can't really
20:28
i can't over commit to it like i just i there's
20:31
no more i can give and it's like that was fine
20:33
i still kept all those friends you know what
20:35
i mean like it's like it's not like you're going
20:37
to prison like you can you when you go to join
20:40
these clubs you can still leave like but the
20:44
important thing is that you like make connections
20:46
and meet people and find find your group you
20:48
know yeah The joy of bailing. That's too real.
20:54
It is wonderful. It's the best feeling in the
20:57
world. But, you know, moderation, right? Yes.
21:00
I think, you know, Nick and I both come from
21:03
this background of being in Toronto in like an
21:05
intense indie scene. And like often I'll have
21:07
kids like younger creatives approaching me for
21:10
like work advice. And the only real thing that
21:14
I can ever advise to anybody is like you need
21:16
to get out and find your people. the all of my
21:20
career every opportunity I've ever had has come
21:22
from like the most humble beginnings of like
21:24
going to shows and meeting people in bands and
21:26
like deciding to make music videos together and
21:29
like making silly short films and stuff like
21:31
that like it's like it all starts with being
21:34
in person and there's no real I don't think there's
21:36
really a workaround for that like I think you
21:38
really just have to like get out there and and
21:42
find people and do and you know make silly things
21:50
Anne is right. At the end of the day, connections
21:53
with people will become some of the most important
21:55
parts of our journey, both personally and professionally.
21:59
Find those people that can help you make silly
22:01
things. Thank you for listening to the entire
22:07
episode. All the links and info you heard in
22:09
this conversation will be featured in the show
22:11
notes on our website. If you'd like to know more
22:13
about anything we mentioned in this episode,
22:15
make sure to check villagermagazine .ca slash
22:18
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22:33
I'll see you next time.