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Can Brian Flores Contain Caleb Williams? Bears - Vikings Week 2 Preview · Da Windy City Sports Podcast

0:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome to the Wendy city podcast presented by fans cited that is Alex Shapiro, I am Ken of Davis and we're fortunate enough to be joined by someone we always enjoy talking to and that is Matthew Collier from the purple insider follow him at Matthew Collier Matthew.
0:15
[SPEAKER_02]: How are you doing today?
0:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'm doing okay.
0:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's confusion over who's going to play quarterback for the Minnesota Vikings.
0:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm actually quite used to this situation over the last couple of years, but, you know, the start to the season was fascinating and week one across the entire NFL.
0:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have all the answers to the rest of the season now, right?
0:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Or at least that's the way we treat it as analysts.
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a...
0:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a long season though.
0:42
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm glad though.
0:43
[SPEAKER_01]: We're finally here because after nine months of off season, I was very ready for real football.
0:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We've got to talk about that come back and the crazy game against the Packers to lead things off.
0:55
[SPEAKER_00]: My NFC North Chat has just been absolutely lit.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Pretty much from the end of that game to now.
1:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It's still going.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But we got to talk about the quarterback situation.
1:05
[SPEAKER_00]: You let off with it and it is crazy.
1:08
[SPEAKER_00]: So I got a two two part of for you to
1:11
[SPEAKER_00]: is Carson wants the guy for the foreseeable future.
1:14
[SPEAKER_00]: What is going on there?
1:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then what is the plan for JJ McCarthy now?
1:21
[SPEAKER_01]: No, Carson Wentz is not the guy.
1:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Carson Wentz is a totally fine quality backup quarterback.
1:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I would put him in the top 10 backup quarterbacks in the NFL.
1:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But this is a guy who has not been a starting quarterback in the NFL since 2022.
1:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And when he was, he got benched by Washington.
1:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And then last year he played five games for the Vikings.
1:44
[SPEAKER_01]: He went two and three and was okay.
1:47
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... that ended really tough because he had this injury he was trying to play through when they got blown out by the chargers but in the first four games he gave you exactly what you would ever hope for from a backup quarterback which is a two and two record where there was some good there was some bad and you survived it and it didn't ruin your entire season they found other ways to ruin the entire season the rest of the way but they did not do it during Carson wences time he got the ball to Justin Jefferson
2:13
[SPEAKER_01]: It was all right.
2:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And last week, what your hope is is if you're starting quarterback, it's hurt in the middle of a game that that game is not completely lost because you can bring in a backup quarterback.
2:25
[SPEAKER_01]: But the questions about whether he could play well enough to be the starter long term.
2:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, if you want to go eight nine and miss the playoffs, then sure that would be a fine idea.
2:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that their expectations are higher than that.
2:39
[SPEAKER_01]: And I know that people are not high, just in general, across the board on Kyler Murray.
2:45
[SPEAKER_01]: But in the last time he was starting quarterback in 2024, if you're using PFF metrics, he was, which I know you guys are very fond of it the moment, but if you're using those, he was the 12th best quarterback in the league.
2:56
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're using ESPN's QBR, he was the crack the top 10.
3:00
[SPEAKER_01]: In 2024 with a bad Arizona team that he just had a very good season when for 4,300 ish total yards between rushing and passing like if he does things like that if he is in the middle of the league I mean even if you look at the athletics quarterback tears which have routinely put him in the top 12 to 15 quarterbacks if he's there
3:21
[SPEAKER_01]: With the rest of this team with Brian Flores is defense, with Justin Jefferson and the weapons they have, they can be a very serious NFC North team.
3:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think that's possible if you have Carson Wences, you're starting quarterback because it's going to be one week.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's fine.
3:36
[SPEAKER_01]: The next week, it's pretty bad.
3:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Then even the idea that he could make it through an entire season with how old he is, the amount of mileage on his body, like that's just not even a discussion.
3:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And with, you know, somebody like JJ McCarthy, he's just out of the conversation entirely.
3:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like he got every opportunity and training camp, Kevin O'Connell gave him a ton of first team reps, which you usually don't see for any backup quarterback.
4:02
[SPEAKER_01]: He was developed as much as the possibly that the team could do over the last two, three years now.
4:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And it hasn't worked out.
4:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess I would make the comparison to somebody like Justin Fields where there was always,
4:15
[SPEAKER_01]: just a little bit here there, and the fans would really, really want the guy to succeed and really try to like speak it into existence.
4:22
[SPEAKER_01]: But unfortunately, accuracy and timing and vision, those things, they're only, I don't know, 25 guys in the world who can do it.
4:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And as of right now, JJ McCarthy is not one of them.
4:35
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's why Carson Wentz was the backup quarterback.
4:38
[SPEAKER_01]: But I mean, this is still Kyler's show as soon as he's healthy.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Matthew, we were only dealing with the future on this episode.
4:45
[SPEAKER_02]: We're we're looking this way.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: We're not looking back.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You got me with the justice, but look, you know, trigger line.
4:51
[SPEAKER_02]: It's you, you're leading right me right where I want to go.
4:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And you just basically said that a Kyla Murray is Kyla Murray, this team would be good, but that's not just the reason they brought him in.
5:00
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys have a clear coach that is a designated quarterback whisperer, basically.
5:05
[SPEAKER_02]: And what is the true expectation that if you take a player that's been a top 12 player that hasn't put it all together with these physical attributes that Kyla Murray has, what's the expectation if you give him to a head coach and Kevin O'Connell that can basically coach up anyone to be a decent or a really good starter in NFL?
5:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, not anyone, but some people.
5:26
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I'm not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not.
5:29
[SPEAKER_01]: As JJ McCarthy showed us, not anyone, but when it comes to Kyle and Murray, the interesting thing about him is the more I was researching his time in Arizona and him as a player.
5:41
[SPEAKER_01]: He has had these stretches where if you just Google a certain date and Kyler Murray MVP, his name will come up with articles with all sorts of statistical evidence and how he's played as team is one sixth or last date and everything else, it's the sustainability of that has been a problem.
5:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And you can't blame it all on, well, just the Arizona franchise, but I do think that when you compare the franchises Arizona and Minnesota, what they have and what type of supporting cast you can give Kyler Murray, most recently, he really didn't have weapons that were very good.
6:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, Marvin Harrison, Junior, maybe a guy who turns a corner at some point.
6:20
[SPEAKER_01]: but was not performing in the same way that you would have expected based on the hype and his draft status when he came out of college, nowhere close.
6:28
[SPEAKER_01]: So Murray really had to just lean on Tramig Bride, who's awesome and is a star.
6:33
[SPEAKER_01]: But in terms of their defense, they were 31st from 2023 to last year.
6:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, so you're dealing with playing from behind all the time, having to play hero, not really getting the benefit of playing with leads or leaning on your defense or playing it safe at times.
6:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that that was a very difficult position for Kyla Murray to be in.
6:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's these realities of what he was dealing with, also Cliff Kingsbury, you know, I think that.
6:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Kingsbury took a similar approach to what the bears did in Caleb Williams first year where it was like, well, let's sort of, you know, meld his college offense with his NFL offense and as you guys saw, that doesn't work.
7:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This is the NFL.
7:14
[SPEAKER_01]: The Ben Johnson's approach is the one that Kyle and Murray needed years ago, which is no dude.
7:18
[SPEAKER_01]: You're going to learn all of this and I'm going to yell at you a lot, but on the other side, it's going to be scary.
7:23
[SPEAKER_01]: That is not something that Murray had until Drew Petzing and Jonathan Gannon showed up there in 2023 and then had to learn that on the fly.
7:32
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that with Kevin O'Connell, this is clearly an NFL offense.
7:37
[SPEAKER_01]: It has all the things, all the motions, and all the formations, and all the checks, and changes, and everything else.
7:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And throughout training camp, we saw Kyler do a very good job of getting all that down.
7:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Managing all of that at the line of scrimmage and not having operational issues and not having issues of not wearing knowing where to throw the ball or who's supposed to be where He looked very locked in.
8:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That's why it sucks so much for him that he comes out and gets hurt on the 12th or 11th play of the game Because we just didn't get any sort of sample size so far now the injury doesn't look like it's gonna be long-term
8:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So everything is still out in front of Kyla Murray, but it was the worst possible way to have his time in Minnesota, start after he had such a good training camp that looked like it was setting up for him to have a good season, but now we're still in this position of not really knowing where this is going to go.
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, let's start with a page of defense because in recent memory, you know, you think Minnesota Vikings, I at least think defense.
8:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I think Brian Flores guys, um, one of if not the best defensive coordinator in the league.
8:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I guess Spaggs has a saying that as well, uh, the pressure packages are outrageous bear's fans know what to expect with Brian Flores and the blitzing.
8:54
[SPEAKER_00]: But I'm just curious over the off season for fans were catching up.
8:57
[SPEAKER_00]: It's early in the year just week two.
8:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Um,
9:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Are there any tweaks, any wrinkles, new players, new things with this defense that that Ferris fans might not be ready for or might not be expecting?
9:09
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, for this game, there is the issue of the safety position because normally Ferris fans would be used to Harrison Smith being a Hall of Fame caliber player and being someone who absolutely terrifies the other team every week.
9:23
[SPEAKER_01]: where we only saw him in a handful of snaps because he came back after training camp only a week before the season started so even for him to get out there at all soft air and Donald couldn't even go to Australia and here's Harrison Smith out there playing.
9:39
[SPEAKER_01]: No, but I mean, that obviously he wasn't going to play the entire game, and I think the same will go for this game, and no one tell Aaron Donald, I said he's soft.
9:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm just kidding Aaron Donald, but when it comes to Harrison Smith's role, he has always been sort of the commander of that defense, the main guy who's dealing in all the communication and
10:00
[SPEAKER_01]: and all the deception of Bryan Flores is defense.
10:03
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a match made in absolute heaven for a guy who wants to deceive as much as possible, with a guy who is as good at it as any player has been in the last 25 years in the NFL.
10:14
[SPEAKER_01]: So without him playing a full snap load, we saw some miscommunications, we saw some big plays from Jordan Love, and that's where
10:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb Williams, Luther Bird in, you know, coast of the lovelin, like these guys who can create downfield, Roman Dunes, I had that great catch last week.
10:29
[SPEAKER_01]: Like these guys can create downfield and Caleb Williams has the ability under Dores to create extra time.
10:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you're safety position is down a man, and even then, like Harrison Smith just coming back so even when he's in on the field,
10:43
[SPEAKER_01]: there's some questions there.
10:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the one weakness that would be different from years past where I think that they've been just as good or even better is then we expected for sure was against the run last week where the you guys know like this will determine a lot about how Chicago's offense succeeds or fails against Minnesota.
11:02
[SPEAKER_01]: But there's some young players they've developed.
11:04
[SPEAKER_01]: Levi Drake Rodriguez, time-groom Dawkins, who are totally unknown in the NFL, who had great games against the Green Bay Packers.
11:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been working them in behind the scenes, developing them, and they are so key to this run game.
11:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I also think the defense is a little bit deeper than it's been in the past.
11:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other thing, too, is the last time you saw Dallas Turner, he had kind of a breakout game against Chicago,
11:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But last week it was a breakout breakout game.
11:30
[SPEAKER_01]: It was like super star level stuff that gets six quarter back hits, nine quarter back pressures.
11:36
[SPEAKER_01]: He was everywhere in that game.
11:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And if he does that again against Chicago, it could be an issue for Caleb Williams, because he might be quick enough to chase him down sometimes.
11:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, I want to stick with Taylor, but you mentioned his performance under Duresh.
11:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You look at last week's game, and of course, when you mentioned Blanfore as you're thinking, exotic, blitzin' and all that.
11:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But now you're talking about a quarterback who's always kind of shown that off-schedule he can perform well, but now he's kind of doing it behind under center.
12:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Expectations as far as we'll try to keep him inside or where they try to blitz him and let Caleb do what he does when he's doing bootlegs and naked wackers.
12:13
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's so interesting because Caleb Williams commanded the offense when I watched the game back last week.
12:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I was
12:20
[SPEAKER_01]: This is scary for the rest of the NFL if this guy's really commanding an offense because if you have a quarterback whose main thing is just I'm going to drop back scramble all over the place and Kyler's been this in the past and early in his career.
12:32
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a lot of variance that comes along with that.
12:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Like sometimes it works and it's amazing and sometimes it's horrible.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's still doing it, but he's also running the offense on time getting everybody lined up getting the snap off.
12:45
[SPEAKER_01]: throwing the ball where he's supposed to throw it.
12:47
[SPEAKER_01]: If he's doing all that and is doing the other stuff at a super high level.
12:51
[SPEAKER_01]: And the crazy part is the amount of sacks that he does not take anymore.
12:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Like the first year, I thought, well, if this guy's gonna get sacks 70 times a year, he's not gonna last and there's probably a limited upside.
13:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And then he cuts that in more than half, manage the pocket really well at times when he is throwing in rhythm and then makes special plays when it's called upon.
13:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, all that stuff is really, really good.
13:14
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so for Brian Flores, I think that the answer is going to be to try to push the gas pedal down because an interesting step from their game last year, week 11 was that Williams was not pressured that much.
13:26
[SPEAKER_01]: It was only like 40% of the time.
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But on those pressure dropbacks, he only completed two passes on 15 pressure dropbacks.
13:34
[SPEAKER_01]: He will throw the ball away a lot of times, which is smart on his point.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: But if you're the defense, you love that.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They're great.
13:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Run around for a while and throw the ball away.
13:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's perfectly fine.
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And he can be a little, you know, scatter shot at times with the accuracy when he's doing that.
13:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think what they're going to try to do is just speed him up as much as they can.
13:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, can try to contain him.
13:54
[SPEAKER_01]: He'll probably run for 50 yards at some point.
13:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
13:57
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're trying to contain him.
13:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think mostly, though, it's just put him under duress as much as possible.
14:02
[SPEAKER_01]: Make him make great throws over and over.
14:05
[SPEAKER_01]: That's exactly what they did to Jordan love.
14:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Who's not the same as Williams, but they have
14:10
[SPEAKER_01]: in common that they can throw off the back foot.
14:12
[SPEAKER_01]: They could be running to their left and make a great throw.
14:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Early in the game, Jordan love hit a couple of big plays, but that didn't matter at all to Brian Flores.
14:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So he just kept, you know, bringing the heat, bringing the heat, bringing the heat, and eventually, you know, Jordan love cracked under the pressure and have the strip sack have the interception.
14:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think you're trying to look for the same thing against Caleb Williams.
14:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I love the fact that you said Jordan Love is an exactly like Caleb coming from inside of the vision and makes us feel good here in Chicago because our QB situation has been trash forever basically I put that out that won't just take shots will let's be honest where we're coming from when we're sorry for jumping ahead of you out so I just want to say this while we're talking about Caleb division and league and it's way too early Matthew but from the outside where does Caleb break you for you in the division and in the league.
14:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, I think that as of right now, you would probably have him.
15:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we're to try to rank him against Jared Goff, because like, I mean, I don't know what you guys say.
15:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Jared Goff is awesome, but I also know that if Jared Goff is pressured at all, he turns into a baby giraffe when he's trying to scramble away.
15:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And he spikes balls and stuff.
15:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But he's in rhythm.
15:19
[SPEAKER_01]: He's the best.
15:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's...
15:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a bad comparison, but like we were talking before about ring culture and stuff.
15:27
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like in a different world Jared Goff is just like Tom Brady, where it's like on point all the time with the accuracy, the execution, but a few pressure and like you can get to him.
15:36
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've always thought very, very highly of Jared Goff.
15:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And with Jordan Love, there's sort of
15:44
[SPEAKER_01]: This is another weird comparison because it's sort of like a Kirk Cousinsy nature to him where like he is paid very highly so it's difficult for the team to really like get a lot of free agents and do a lot of stuff with their salary cap and he is really really good.
16:00
[SPEAKER_01]: but leaves a little bit to be desired at certain times.
16:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you're like, well, what do you do with a guy like that?
16:07
[SPEAKER_01]: Because of course, 90% of teams would love to have Jordan love on their team, but he just seems to leave you, including last week, feeling like,
16:17
[SPEAKER_01]: one or two more plays there and it could have been different.
16:19
[SPEAKER_01]: That was the sort of the Kirk experience for years with Caleb Williams the way this is going it almost feels like in one of those disaster movies where the volcano has not yet exploded but some guys looking at a computer going sir you've got to see this.
16:36
[SPEAKER_01]: I've got all the metrics.
16:37
[SPEAKER_01]: They're off the charts and they're like, I don't know man, like biking spams.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I don't know.
16:40
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if that volcano is going to explode, but it feels like the volcano is about to explode.
16:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And by the end of the year, Caleb Williams could be a top five quarterback in the entire NFL.
16:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think one performance against the Carolina Panthers makes that.
16:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, but I think that it's it is really trending that way if he can just be a little more consistent with the accuracy and timing on things.
17:02
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
17:03
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that.
17:04
[SPEAKER_00]: The volcano is about to erupt metaphor.
17:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's wonderful.
17:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to touch more on the weapons.
17:10
[SPEAKER_00]: We were talking about Kyler Murray and this host of weapons.
17:14
[SPEAKER_00]: One guy in particular, Jordan Addison, who the first two years of his career.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this guy looked like he was going to be an absolute superstar next to Justin Jefferson.
17:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously has this suspension to begin last season.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And it feels like since he came back from this suspension, he has simply not been the same player.
17:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know quarterback play
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: plays a role in that last year, but last week he was also kind of invisible for lack of a better word.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So I guess my question is like, what's going on with Jordan Addison this tale of two seasons with him?
17:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it can be totally so tough to figure out sometimes you guys know this really well if you have bad quarterback play like are your receivers good or not I thought Curtis Conway was elite, but you know, they just didn't always have the guy to get him the football right, but I mean, my first favorite player the silver right.
18:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's Conway my first favorite player.
18:04
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're not always going to have the biggest, you know, 120 receptions like Herman Moore over there if you don't have the quarterback play.
18:12
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that that's been a lot of it for Jordan Addison is last year everyone's stats were down.
18:18
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you look at TJ Hawkinson and all the fantasy people are so ticked because he used to be a guy that they would draft and then last year he has a poor season Jefferson barely squeaks it out to a thousand yards, which is insane.
18:30
[SPEAKER_01]: because he averages 14 or 1500 yards per season for his career and on the last week of the year, they're force feeding him the ball just to get him over a thousand.
18:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's how ridiculous last season was with the quarterback play.
18:43
[SPEAKER_01]: I can't remember seeing too many things like it.
18:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm less familiar than you guys are with that level of quarterback play.
18:49
[SPEAKER_01]: But, I mean, when it comes to this season, that's one of the reasons that you go get Kyler Murray is the belief in players like Jefferson, Addison Hawkinson, and then they add Joanne Jennings as well, that these guys talent, if you get a quarterback who can even just distribute the whole play point guard thing, that all of them will come right back to life.
19:10
[SPEAKER_01]: The problem for Jordan Addison last week was there were two separate times where he was
19:17
[SPEAKER_01]: and Tark Carson went through it to him and just flat out missed the pass.
19:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, just whether it was timing or I don't know on that route, whether you turn left or right or didn't really time out with your break or whatever.
19:29
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing about Carson also is that he throws the ball super, super hard.
19:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's not a lot of margin for error there.
19:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not like adjustments can really be made.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like if this doesn't hit you like a spear in the center of the chest, it's going to be hard to catch.
19:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that was part of it.
19:45
[SPEAKER_01]: And then there were two or three other times watching the tape back, where you like, Addison should be the right nope.
19:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, they just threw it to Jefferson or the tight end, because he hadn't practiced at all.
19:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I think that Jordan Addison's talent is still very, very much there.
19:58
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw all through training camp with Kyla Murray.
20:01
[SPEAKER_01]: He worked out with Murray in Texas throughout the off season, like the arrow should be up.
20:06
[SPEAKER_01]: But when there's question marks at quarterback and your head coach is having to run the football down two scores because you just don't really even know how many plays you could put on Carson Wentz's shoulders, it's going to do some damage to everybody's fantasy stats.
20:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, we'll get back to the game, but I wanna go to the other guy in that wide receiver room.
20:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wanna ask you about Justin Jefferson because you've taken about bringing in Kyle and Murray and part of the reasons doing that is that sooner or later and probably sooner, Justin Jefferson's gonna say, I wanna be with the Hall of Fame or close to Hall of Fame quarterback because right now, and to me, healthy, I want him as my number one, where I was even elite.
20:43
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, it's image marches, and I'm usually more of a Justin Jefferson guy than the dramatic marches guy, right?
20:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, also, Jamal Chase has to take us on the other side of them.
20:51
[SPEAKER_02]: Not saying taking away from Jamal Chase, but your thoughts, Matthew, on how long Justin Jefferson can operate with not having a proble type of quarterback under center.
21:01
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been a bubbling conversation here.
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that we're sort of not there yet at that discussion, but it's not too far off in the distance, depending on how things go this year, because if you look at the
21:17
[SPEAKER_01]: his contract is set up to do a new deal after this season.
21:22
[SPEAKER_01]: This is kind of how all these mega contracts work where there are really three year deals that will say five.
21:27
[SPEAKER_01]: But when you get to the fourth year of it, the salary cap hit goes through the roof.
21:32
[SPEAKER_01]: So your idea is to renegotiate, get another extension, bring that cap hit down for another three years and hack the salary cap again.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
21:40
[SPEAKER_01]: That's what you're trying to do.
21:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But if the player does not want to do that extension with you, then your left looking around going now our salary cap is completely screwed because he's got a $50 million cap hit or whatever, right?
21:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's kind of the spot that they're in with Jefferson.
21:57
[SPEAKER_01]: That's where the player gets some of the power to dictate, like, do I want out or not?
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's why I think we've seen an increase in the number of star players that get traded these days is because of the way the contracts are set up.
22:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Also Joe Burrow's contract is set up the same way so that's worth watching as well, but I think if you're just in Jefferson and this year goes badly and you're barely getting to a thousand yards again, which I mean.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: is possible.
22:25
[SPEAKER_01]: It's hard to see it being worse than it was last year, but let's say that's the case and they missed the playoffs.
22:31
[SPEAKER_01]: They go seven and ten.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think that's a very real possibility that Justin Jefferson could say, why should I sign an extension with you when we don't know what we're doing at quarterback?
22:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the head coach, I think is very, very good and his culture is great, but how many playoff wins, right?
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, usually head coaches do not
22:48
[SPEAKER_01]: get in a man, if they go 7 and 10, I don't know if Kevin O'Connell is coaching the team in 2027, like how many head coaches get five years with no playoff wins, regardless of what they've done in the regular season, regardless of how many people like them, like that's the, you know, it's not fairly when it comes to that, but like results are always going to dictate what owners do at the end of the day.
23:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're talking about quarterback changes, coaches changes, they've already fired the general manager, it's going to feel like
23:18
[SPEAKER_01]: for him and I don't know how you could say oh yeah let me sign up and be locked in for another five years of this but after week one you know they're one and all and he had a really good weekend so like I don't think we need to be there yet but there are scenarios where that's a very real discussion after this season.
23:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Could anyone in the fan base or Alex real quick, could anyone in a fan base kind of want desire and think about where the team is at right now talking about what Kevin O'Connell hasn't necessarily achieved and thinks about what Justin Jefferson can get for you and think you know what I love Justin Jefferson but at this point where we're at, it particularly we talk about maybe when we get in the court quarterback derby and a draft and upcoming years because that's been an issue, even if you kept Kevin O'Connell because he still is, you may not get another coaches as good as Kevin O'Connell, what comes to quarterback.
24:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there thoughts about using Justin Jefferson to acquire more assets rather than spinning that money on them right now?
24:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I call that front office brain where people just get way to like Madden brained offseason type of thing.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: There is no universe.
24:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, where you want Justin Jefferson playing for another franchise effort.
24:22
[SPEAKER_01]: Like what you want is Justin to be Larry Fitzgerald, where he's there
24:30
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe it only pops up once that you get a chance to go to a Super Bowl or something, but you want him there when that happens.
24:36
[SPEAKER_01]: There is nothing more valuable in the NFL than an unstoppable wide receiver.
24:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's unfortunate that the Vikings have had such a poor quarterback play that they haven't been able to remind everyone of that.
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But
24:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, there's plenty of Vikings bears games where they had Kirk Cousins or Sam Darnold where it's pretty obvious that even when Justin Jefferson is not getting the football.
24:57
[SPEAKER_01]: If you think of the 2024 game, there's three guys trying to cover him for the entire game.
25:02
[SPEAKER_01]: And here's Jordan Addison with big plays and TJ Hawkinson with big plays.
25:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And there's a magnetism to him that draws defenses.
25:10
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes everybody better in theory.
25:12
[SPEAKER_01]: It should make the run game better.
25:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if they had good running backs, that would probably be the case.
25:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Like it's that's the thing about Jefferson's career though is that a lot of it was spent with a very good quarterback, but not necessarily great teams.
25:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I think if they had had great teams around Kirk cousins, they would have competed for a Super Bowl and then, you know, cousins goes and by 2024 they've built a great team.
25:35
[SPEAKER_01]: but there's this uncertainty of quarterback because they miss the forest through the trees with Sam Darnold.
25:40
[SPEAKER_01]: They focused too much on two games that went horribly wrong that by the way, 50 other players played or whatever, 40, how many are active on game day?
25:49
[SPEAKER_01]: 46 other guys played other than Sam Darnold and there's also some guys who got out coached, I think, by other teams in those games, but they looked at it and said, no, no, that's not good enough for us, the guy who got
26:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Jefferson to 1500 yards and one-fourteen games and all that.
26:05
[SPEAKER_01]: No, no, we can do better.
26:07
[SPEAKER_01]: And nothing is blown up in a team's face more than that.
26:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I think truly it is the worst front office move ever made in the NFL in all of football history.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Vikings owned that before with Hershey Walker and that trade, but I think they own it now.
26:22
[SPEAKER_01]: to let go a Super Bowl winning quarterback and then have your guy that you let him go for be QB3 the next season is an atrocity and if that ends up having ripple effects on O'Connell and I mean it's not Jefferson's fault he didn't make that decision but it's already had ripple effects with the front office and if
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It does with O'Connell, then so be it because everyone involved with that decision has to wear that forever.
26:46
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're Jefferson, like you know about that, too, right?
26:50
[SPEAKER_01]: Like Jefferson also is aware that the best quarterback ever for him is Sam Darnold with this big giant arm who can fit it into any window and they took it away from him.
26:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So if that ends up existing there and goes that way, it'll all be traced back to that one decision.
27:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Justin Jefferson, probably looking at Jackson Smith and Jigba with a lot of envy.
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
27:12
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's a player of the year, right?
27:13
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, it was mutton.
27:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
27:15
[SPEAKER_01]: But that's the thing about that decision in particular.
27:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was a little bit of that meme where the guy is taking out his sword and everyone's coming at him, right, with bringing back Sam Barnhill, because what I just couldn't get over is how many quarterbacks get drafted and then end up working out to be star quarterbacks.
27:34
[SPEAKER_01]: And if you go through it, I mean, super star quarterbacks.
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: It's probably about 25%.
27:41
[SPEAKER_01]: that get drafted in the top 10.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: And then when you go to even average or good quarterbacks, it's probably 50%.
27:48
[SPEAKER_01]: What do we think happens to the other 50%.
27:50
[SPEAKER_01]: They end up out of the league, they end up as backups, they end up as blame-gabbert or something, and you know, sometimes they kick around and become Ryan Tanahill or Gino Smith who are just kind of guys in the league.
28:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Like there was always a coin flip chance no matter how much you like the guy that it just wasn't going to work out versus someone who had just shown you that they were the best fit for Jefferson.
28:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So that one is is just going to live there forever.
28:14
[SPEAKER_01]: incredible big words worst moves in franchise history uh oh now franchise history I think it's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's that's
28:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the rookie completely fails, they miss the playoffs, he's totally benched and the other guy wins the Super Bowl.
28:42
[SPEAKER_01]: Find one that's worse, like any trade, any signing.
28:45
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, draft pick doesn't really count because, yeah, okay, you know, drafting Ryan Lee for whatever, but that's not really like a, I mean, anyone would have done that at the time.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, you don't know that exactly.
28:56
[SPEAKER_01]: We saw Sam Darnold play football for an entire year and they still decided no way and then he goes and wins a Super Bowl and played amazing in the NFC championship against the team.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You just can't write this stuff against the team against the team that they said he couldn't beat because he saw ghosts and then he beats them.
29:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
29:15
[SPEAKER_01]: It is quite the challenge.
29:16
[SPEAKER_00]: It is quite the challenge people in the comments.
29:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Let us know if there's any worse.
29:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I got one.
29:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I got one.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I got one.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I got one.
29:24
[SPEAKER_02]: I got one.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
29:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think I think perhaps maybe you'll give me some props with this one.
29:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I would say.
29:32
[SPEAKER_02]: that Jerry Jones running Jimmy Johnson out of the building when they had Stin when they and they still went and one another rang with him with the college head coach.
29:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Think about what the coppers would have been one with that team if they left Jimmy.
29:46
[SPEAKER_02]: But think about if he just let Jimmy just grow and be the general manager at one point.
29:50
[SPEAKER_02]: this how ahead of the game Jimmy Johnson was and it goes back to your Hershey Walker, so these goes yeah still goes back to the Vikings and her to walk, but I think that could be I think if you think about fumbling something, for example, since the Cowboys haven't been had been nothing really without Jimmy Johnson as far as you can.
30:07
[SPEAKER_02]: You really took them serious as a super book.
30:09
[SPEAKER_02]: They've had chances, Roma was really good.
30:11
[SPEAKER_02]: That is really good, but if you would let, and I know you know, because we were talking about the Buffalo Bills, and this is for anybody outside of student just too young.
30:18
[SPEAKER_02]: This is before free agency, all right?
30:21
[SPEAKER_02]: So people were snacking the debt players.
30:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It was free agency opened up during Dallas's run.
30:26
[SPEAKER_02]: People went and snatched Jimmy's deft up because how well Jimmy Johnson was drafting players, all right?
30:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's just, Jimmy Johnson was something else.
30:34
[SPEAKER_02]: You, everyone, if you didn't,
30:36
[SPEAKER_01]: of the chart and they use it for years so I'll just throw Jimmy onto the table Matthew that's I think that's a good nomination the only thing is that Barry Switzer still want a super ball right still got another one now they could have maybe one more into the future if they had kept Jimmy but the Vikings have
30:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I think you're right, I can't hear you.
30:58
[SPEAKER_02]: There you go.
30:59
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
31:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's bring it back.
31:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's bring it back to Sunday's game.
31:04
[SPEAKER_00]: You gave us a script for the Vikings to win.
31:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Bottle up that run game with the young guys.
31:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Pressure the heck out of Caleb Williams and hopes he cracks and limit the explosive plays with Harrison Smith.
31:17
[SPEAKER_00]: kind of in between and and also we're hoping Kyler Murray clears the concussion protocol and he plays because he's better than Carson went.
31:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So we got all the script, but now I'm going to ask you how do you think the script will actually play out what happens on Sunday at noon.
31:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been really going back a fourth on this in part because you know, not knowing who the starting quarterback is as we're recording this, it makes it a lot harder to figure out.
31:42
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a, there's a, there's a part of me that wants to lean a little bit toward the Vikings here only because of how atrocious Chicago's ability to pressure the quarterback is and if you look at Carson when he's had a clean pocket over his career and even just as a Minnesota Viking he has been a above average or average, very solid good quarterback when he is kept clean.
32:06
[SPEAKER_01]: when he is not kept clean, it goes really, really badly.
32:09
[SPEAKER_01]: But Chicago couldn't pressure Bryce Young.
32:12
[SPEAKER_01]: He threw the ball over the yard, and I think Bryce is probably getting better, but I don't think he's that much better.
32:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And the Vikings weapons, like the issues with injuries in the secondary for Chicago.
32:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that that even's the playing field quite a bit for how good I think Caleb Williams is and is going to be the other thing too that might even in a little bit is it sounds like it's going to be sloppy sounds like it's going to be wet rainy, you know, which could be maybe a little bit of an issue for.
32:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that terrifies you the most is Caleb Williams running 700 miles an hour past you, does that slow down that a little bit does it slow down the run game a little bit when it's sloppy and soldier field always has perfect flawless grass out there, but you know if it gets a little rainy it might not.
32:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I've I've always felt like this is going to be close like I look at the two games from last year and I think exact same script like exact same just like kind of knock down drag out back and forth for the entire game.
33:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't necessarily expect like a 21 point out burst for the Vikings in a fourth quarter like week one but definitely expected to be coming down to final plays again just based on how strong these teams are in certain areas and their weaknesses in certain areas.
33:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I mean, I think I want to lean, I always split the NFC North just for my game picking transparency, so it's trying to decide like which one I think they're going to win.
33:32
[SPEAKER_01]: For some reason, Kevin O'Connell has been great at Soldier Field, which was not the case for any coach for the Vikings before him, just ask Chad Hutchinson who won a game against them once upon a time.
33:42
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think I'm
33:47
[SPEAKER_01]: 21, 24 Vikings win with Will Riker in the rain from 57 or something.
33:52
[SPEAKER_01]: That's, that's what that game kind of feels like.
33:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Incredible.
33:56
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you, so Briar floor has really pitched the game that we don't pitch a game this Sunday for to keep the bears in the 20s.
34:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, I'm not even saying it like because we, we actually don't know how this offense is going to really shake out.
34:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't think that first game is going to be an anomaly, but it,
34:12
[SPEAKER_02]: 59 points is, come on now, let's be serious.
34:15
[SPEAKER_02]: My last question for you is, and again, this isn't, I know this is a Chicago show, so it seems like I'm trying to angle it for Chicago, but that's not what I'm asking.
34:22
[SPEAKER_02]: How do you think this division's gonna shake out?
34:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Because there's so many questions like, for all of all, for all three of us, like, and I don't wanna really say boogeyman, but like, is the Detroit run over over, I mean, that Campbell, I think we all think he's a great motivator, but them not having been Johnson is really come back,
34:40
[SPEAKER_02]: To ruin them.
34:41
[SPEAKER_02]: It seems like and again, I think Detroit could go on a run.
34:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, like what you say about Jericho off.
34:46
[SPEAKER_02]: I used to always take shots of Jericho off one.
34:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Let me be very open and transparent because I would always say I have to see Jericho off of Ben Johnson gone.
34:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't think this is a Jared golf thing.
34:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I think everything you said about Jared golf is correct.
34:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Jared golf on platform is one of the better top quarterbacks in the league on platform.
35:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Watch out all right like that man can execute that offense.
35:08
[SPEAKER_02]: But then you look at you mentioned Jordan love and the fact that is just can't get right a little bit all the way.
35:14
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the quarterback situation with the bike is in again, and I'm also saying it's because we don't know who to hell the Vikings are in a way.
35:20
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm saying this is a frightening thing like.
35:23
[SPEAKER_02]: To look, office of defense, those are two madmen.
35:26
[SPEAKER_02]: When you talk about play color, I'm madmen that you have a hate coach as your defense coordinator.
35:31
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, like that's what you have.
35:33
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a hate coach as your defense coordinator.
35:34
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, I'm sorry, your thoughts Matthew are on what you think could perhaps take place in the NFC North this season.
35:41
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, before the show, you threatened me and said I had to say great things about the bear.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've been trying to do that all show.
35:46
[SPEAKER_01]: And now you're no such thing happened.
35:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, so what's interesting about this division going into the season, my thought was when we're talking about could the Vikings win the division, even though they have the most uncertainty of quarterback and the thought process for why they could is that they're the only team in the division with a defense and
36:06
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, we all like to be right about our opinions and take victory laps.
36:11
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, I think I could take what already.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: He like that.
36:13
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, here's Detroit.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Can't stop Tyler Chuck.
36:16
[SPEAKER_01]: It's completely run out of Buffalo.
36:18
[SPEAKER_01]: And Chicago's allowing, you know, the number of points to Bryce Young.
36:22
[SPEAKER_01]: It's very hard for me to see with the actual people.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: the personnel of the front seven in Chicago, like how is that getting way better and with green bay until they get Mike Parsons back, but they also might fall out of it too far to catch up by the time they do without Josh Jacobs.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: They can't run the football.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: They have no offensive line.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Their coach seems to be freaking out.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So the door is open for the Vikings and they are the only one that's going to have a top 10 defense.
36:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's pretty much a guarantee.
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's your cheat code of how you can get to the top of the division.
36:54
[SPEAKER_01]: It would require Kyler Murray coming back and being very good though.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think you're going through this division and this schedule just, oh, well, you have the 26 best quarterback play in the league, but Brian Flores got you there.
37:07
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're that good on defense to be able to do the Trent deal for thing or her, you know, the Rex Grossman, you know, bears thing.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're that good to be able to just dominate on defense all the way.
37:18
[SPEAKER_01]: So that has to happen.
37:19
[SPEAKER_01]: And we have no idea what that's really going to look like when Kyler comes back.
37:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I also think that the bears, though I think Bryan Forers, will give them some problems.
37:27
[SPEAKER_01]: This weekend specifically, have the potential to have a top five offense in the entire league and wouldn't surprise me at all if they ended up with top three.
37:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think Buffalo is probably going to be number one in scoring after what we've seen, but if there, you know, I wouldn't be surprised if Chicago is right up there.
37:44
[SPEAKER_01]: So
37:46
[SPEAKER_01]: After one week going into week two, knowing absolutely nothing about how this is all going to play out, my sense would be that the Vikings and the bears are going to be the ones that are kind of scratching and clawing to get to the top of the division throughout because Chicago, if Caleb Williams doesn't play hero for a week will lose a game and you'll be like, well, how did we lose to team X?
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that's because you couldn't pressure their quarterback and then Williams had one bad day or something.
38:13
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think for the Vikings, it's going to be good defense every week and erratic quarterback play.
38:18
[SPEAKER_01]: But if Murray gets into a groove with his weapons, then they are maybe the most complete roster.
38:25
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, what irony, right?
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Like,
38:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Caleb Williams, why didn't you just demand that trade to Minnesota?
38:30
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand it.
38:31
[SPEAKER_01]: That Seth Wicker-Sham reported it.
38:33
[SPEAKER_01]: Everything would have been so much different.
38:35
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think the Vikings from top to bottom total roster-wise have the most complete team and the biggest questions according to back.
38:42
[SPEAKER_01]: So typical Vikings irony, I think.
38:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you again to Matthew Coler from Purple Insider for the Vikings knowledge.
38:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm not Vikings hype, a little bit surprised.
38:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Good folks of Minnesota are on their team, but hey, it makes sense.
39:00
[SPEAKER_00]: The lions are down.
39:01
[SPEAKER_00]: The packers are down.
39:03
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian Flores is really good.
39:05
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, they've still got Justin Jefferson.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And if they figure the quarterback thing out, uh, could be good.
39:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I kind of understand where he's coming from.
39:14
[SPEAKER_00]: If you were listening to that and you're thinking, you know what, you're right, the bears run defense isn't that good.
39:18
[SPEAKER_00]: They made Chuba Hubbard look good.
39:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe Aaron Jones is going to find his way.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to sprinkle a little prop on Aaron Jones.
39:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to sprinkle something on Justin Jefferson.
39:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And all of that, I want to sprinkle some Minnesota defense sacks because of the blitz.
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40:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And thank you again for listening to the Windy City podcast presented by fancited for Kenneth Davis.
40:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I am Alex Shapiro.
40:58
[SPEAKER_00]: We will see you after Sunday's game against the Vikings.