Latest / Skin Anarchy / Kate Talbot, Social Media Marketing Expert, Author, and former FORBES Women Contributor

Transcript

Kate Talbot, Social Media Marketing Expert, Author, and former FORBES Women Contributor · Skin Anarchy

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, so I hope you're loving the episode of Kate.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: She's truly a master in her craft, and um her class will be held uh today, November 4th.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I wanted to pop in and say we are about to hold an amazing panel about clean beauty and what it means.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_01: This is a topic that I have been wanting to talk about probably since the first day that I started Scooter Turkey.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh really about um you know talking about not only the word clean beauty, but what it means to consumers, brands, entrepreneurs, um, what it means in terms of things like venture capital funding and you know um just funding in general that brands receive.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so for the special, I'm going to be moderating a panel of guests, and um they the brands that are being represented are Olica, um, Pipette, and Terasana.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: And so we have three panelists that are coming on the show from each of those brands, and it's gonna be a really great conversation.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love if you guys join in um and listen to it.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to be posting it here as an episode, and also um, you know, doing a lot of commentary around it in my reels for Speaker Anarchy.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be putting out some YouTube content, but I think this is a discussion that I want everyone to really listen into and give your feedback.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think you know, I know I'm gonna learn a lot.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're all gonna learn a lot, and it's so important now more than ever, to really shine a light on this and figure out what it means and you know what what it means for all of us, whether we're on the consuming side or you know, the business side or the funding side, anything we really need to know.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, stay tuned.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be called The Dirty Truth about Clean Brands, and I can't wait to host it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, look forward to that, guys.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be coming out November 6th on the podcast, and I hope you'll tune in.
• 2:04
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• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Hi guys, so right before the interview, I wanted to uh give a huge shout out.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: Kate is an amazing strategist, and she is holding a free masterclass for all those small business uh entrepreneurs out there who really want to utilize social media to get your name out there and really, you know, amp up your game.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: So her masterclass, the first one is today, and the next one is November 4th.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm going to link everything in our bio.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you go check it out.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: We are also about to send out a little mini newsletter to tell you all about it, and I really hope you guys sign up for her masterclass if it's not already filled up.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: But just wanted to preface the episode with this and stay tuned.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you'll really like this one.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: So welcome to the show, Kate.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited you're here.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so excited to be here.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I would love to get started because I want to know all about your career.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know that you um previously wrote for Forbes and you were really heavy into the writing um journalism aspect.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I would love for you to tell us like how um all that came to be and then how you decided to go in another route.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in love writing, that's always been a passion of mine, whether it's business writing, um, entrepreneurial stories, whatever it is, just being able to put pen to paper or keyboard to finger, whatever you want to call it.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_02: I truly love it.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's a spiritual passion of mine.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: So um I am based in San Francisco, so in the world of Silicon Valley.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've been able to utilize my writing in so many different fashions.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: But um, with my journey in the editorial space, it truly happened working for a startup that was based, this is 2014, and we were the first one to do influencer marketing and social media selling.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: So I started my editorial journey writing for a social media examiner and super focused in on Snapchat and Instagram, kind of the first one to write about how to use it for business.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And that kind of forlayed into getting a uh contract with Forbes, um, which I started writing from December 2017 until this past month, and just an incredible opportunity to learn about female entrepreneurs.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, again, I wrote for Forbes Woman, um, highlight them, learn about new trends, hear what's happening in any truly any space, and just be able to share those stories that can have impact on others.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, I love that.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: That is so like for me, that's so special because I feel like um, you know, women don't get highlighted enough as is.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So, like I'm I'm sure that was really interesting, right?
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: In terms of like meeting new people and stuff.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, definitely.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, for sure, meeting new people was one of the best parts of this whole journey because being able to write and share people's stories and elevate, um, you know, not just that typical um woman that's always been represented in the media, but you know, obviously now we're in such a different world with body positivity, diversity, gender, equity, all the wonderful things out there, and being able to tell those stories that's just been such a passion of mine and being able to elevate uh stories that haven't been told yet.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: And that's a great point that you made.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, you know, the redundancy of like, I guess, motivational stories out there were, you know, it was like a serious like stagnation for a long time.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know like growing up, it was like very hard for me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know, like just finding um stories or like just editorial pieces about women of color or like women, you know, from South Asia or like I don't know, like in medicine, you know, it was just it was hard.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I I hear what you're saying.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: So what made you go solo then?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know that you now have this uh totally different direction in your career.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like what really led you to that?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I I as I said, I was uh working like hardcore at startups.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: Before that, I ran social media at Virgin America.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so for the last seven years, I've had my own company where I have written for Forbes and social media examiner and I actually wrote a book, but I've also been able to do marketing consulting as well, um, to work a lot with venture capital firms, a lot in the investment space where people are investing in women and people of color, and then just really fun opportunities along the way.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_02: So, yeah, going solo, I'm just such a big fan of.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, what I write about it, and who I've talked to also inspires me because they've taken huge leaps and huge risks, and I'm a big fan of those.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I mean that that must be really cool.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, you know, I want to know more about that, Kate, because I really don't understand like the world of like freelance writing and like just you know what I mean?
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_01: Because like I have so many, like the guests that I've invited on before, like I've invited on editors, and a lot of them end up going into this direction of like, well, we don't really want to work for one publication anymore.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we want to work, we want to write what we want to write, and and they go in this route.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, how does that work?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you have to start a company to do that?
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: Or is that like how what is the whole like business aspect of all that?
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you do not have to start a company to do that, you just have to have a big vision.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_02: Um, as a freelance writer, I mean, you really want to have a good pitch about yourself and the value that you bring.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: As I mentioned, I had done social media at Virgin America, so that was a super easy way with having a huge brand on my resume to be able to start writing for social media examiner.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_02: And I kind of saw Social Media Examiner as my stepping stone to then write for Forbes or Engadget or other kind of um freelance writing opportunities that I did, but truly getting that foot in the door with having a great pitch about yourself, what the value you bring, and your ability to access um entrepreneurs or insights that uh the publication would really love to have.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_02: So really it's just having a big bold goal and um putting yourself out there and being okay with rejection, but also being able to utilize the opportunities that come your way and just truly capitalize on them.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: No, I can I can totally understand that.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, so what is your what was your favorite?
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you were like starting off as like an official like you know, uh writer and editorial, what was like what like your niche?
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like what was your interest?
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, when I started off, it was really interesting.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_02: As I had mentioned, I wrote about Snapchat and that was 2014, 2015.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_02: And gosh, I was 30 years old.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so, you know, even that was old for Snapchat because all these uh, you know, managers and agencies were trying to figure out what the heck Snapchat is.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_02: Again, like what people feel about TikTok right now, um, seven years later.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: But that was truly my niche because I was able to utilize like my background um with understanding like the business side of social media as well as like these new technologies and what that looked like, and how um kind of those you know, managers who are, you know, maybe 30s, 40s, or 50s could utilize these technologies in a cool way.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so um Snapchat was truly my niche.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote all about it again.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_02: I wrote a book about it.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_02: It was called O Snap, you can use Snapchat for Business, and that really um was able to catapult my career in a lot of different um levels, and I think that led to Forbes.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I will say, like my niche at Forbes was uh female entrepreneurship and how social media was able to catapult or like to amplify their brands, like utilizing these digital tools.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_02: So it was really awesome being able to interview so many incredible women utilizing, you know, whether it was Snapchat, TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, whatever it was, like understanding how the digital tools and the communities that they bring together are able to um kind of put a new a new spin on business.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel lucky that I've been able to grow in the career was starting with something like a Snapchat to then share bigger stories.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that was really interesting to me how um women are able to utilize social media better than, in my opinion, better than men to be able to share their stories and to be able to grow communities.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and also, you know, I just want to say like you really kind of, I mean, you know, you're a front runner and setting the stage for so many young women right now that are like making this as a career for themselves, you know.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I I was talking to my um like one of my colleagues the other day, and we were talking about how like being on social media and being an influencer or some sort of you know expert or like a life coach, like it's a full-fledged career now for women, and it's a beautiful thing because a lot of the women are like you know, full-time moms, and they have like all this other stuff going on.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really cool that they're able to now utilize like you know social media platforms and and make money, and and that's uh a legit gig, you know?
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_01: It works totally, yeah.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_02: I'm 100% for it, and just really this idea like you could be a stay-at-home mom and have income coming in, or you um I even have a course that I'm launching next week.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's all about how to pick yourself to the press as a solopreneur.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So this is really aligned with it.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_02: But the same thing, it's like how can you utilize what's in front of you, the tools that you have, and the confidence that women have that they can share their own stories, whether that's about you know acne scars or um gaining weight, losing weight, stuff that they talk to their girlfriends about, but they can um amplify now with understanding the digital tools in 2021 and and beyond.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I actually want to ask you like, what was the learning curve for like for you when you were like trying to like figure out all these different social platforms?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what was that hard for you, or was it something that you just like you were doing anyways as a hobby, or like how did that work?
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Because I feel like social media is like a new app comes out and it's just like YOLO, dude.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's like you have to figure it out, and then on top of it to become an expert, you know what I mean?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's a huge feat.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, yeah.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I've always I always go back to like I was one of the first colleges to get on the facebook.com.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: So like yeah, I'm a big fan of calling it the facebook.com, even what, 25 years later or something like that.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, I know I know what you mean.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: When that came out and it was like college only, we all felt so special.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: We were like, oh my gosh, we have a we have a college email address.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_02: Like we can like in general, social media always came naturally because it was just part of like growing up, you know, like how the youth now can do TikTok so easily.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I will say I look at it from two different perspectives when I write about it.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, um, from the Snapchat angle, when I when I focus on that, like how brands are utilizing it.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_02: So I really focused on brands that were thinking outside the box.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I would spend a lot of time just honestly like scrolling and and watching content from them, as well as like, how can I utilize my own Snapchat?
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I've never wanted to be an influencer, so that's not my background, but like, how can I utilize that um to you know grow my own audience, to understand who's influential in the space, to connect and grow too?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um, especially with Snapchat, and I know that was a couple of years back, but what was really interesting to me, and and my thesis was all that stories and authenticity was going to be the next big thing, which it did happen with Instagram and you know all the other platforms, but the ability to connect with people on a level where it would go away in 10 seconds.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: So there wasn't that pressure, there wasn't that anxiety.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like that is such another thing that's pertinent to young women is that there's so much anxiety and so much around body image and all this other stuff that we put on ourselves.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: So if there's a channel or an avenue where you can just be yourself and just feel like you're talking to your friends or have it disappear, like that kind of dissipates.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, no, I completely agree.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that, you know, especially when it comes to like, you know, you bring up body image.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: Like I was, um, I was just thinking about this the other day, and I was thinking about how that is such a like a broad term these days because I feel like every day when I get on Instagram or like the reels or you know, TikTok, everyone's got their own opinion of like what body image is supposed to be.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, you know, it gives this like I guess this more open-minded approach to the youth, right?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like you see so many different perspectives of people talking about what it means to be positive about your body or like positive about yourself.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's you know, that's one of the most powerful things about social media.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really love that that's where you started.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I really love that because that is really, you know, in today's day and age, like that's it's the real foundation of storytelling, and it's the foundation of, you know, really connecting, you know, globally connecting.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I I love that.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I want to actually ask you a little bit more about your book, though.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's a really cool thing that you wrote a book about it.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: How was that?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was a fun process.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, my mentor, he's a venture capitalist here in Silicon Valley, and he's like, You need to write a book.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Okay, whatever you say, I'll do.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: I'm pretty easy.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so I but I knew I had to do it fast.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually wrote it in I think three months.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_02: And again, kind of going back to what I said prior about the brands.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I utilized my network.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: So I had case studies from Airbnb, Stanford, Virgin America, I'm trying to think off the top of my shop style, um uh Sundance.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I tried to look at the different silos like film, beauty, um, travel, all that, and share what their strategies were and how um a small business owner or an entrepreneur could utilize them in their own right as well.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um that's what I did.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, as I'm putting my course together um right now and understanding what happened when I wrote that book, it's really interesting.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've been able to fly all over the world.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_02: I speak, I spoke to the president of Sony Latin America and taught him about digital marketing.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_02: And one fun thing I got to do is I was a Snapchat expert witness for this huge court case in New York.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So I think, you know, I'm putting together this course.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: I'm just thinking, what are the opportunities that you have once you say yes to things and once you put that pen to paper and do something?
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: It's really neat to see what can come of it because I think we're so used to being in our own little worlds, and then when you write or you put yourself out in the world um in a personal brand or whatever it is, it's so cool to see like what can happen.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: So um I recommend anybody taking to take a big leap like that.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, and I love how you like really just like honed in on this.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is huge, dude.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I mean, honestly, sorry, I keep saying dude, but I I say it a lot.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_01: So excuse me, but I like it is huge because it's it's at the end of the day, you know, as millennials and millennial women, like we were the least like uh what do you call it, guided generation when it came to technology.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like no one held our we we had no idea what the hell was coming out and like what it was.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And like, you know, I I remember like having a gateway computer desktop as like my first desktop, and there was like that weird disc.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't even a floppy, and like, you know, it was just like this huge, um, you know, very rapid progression in the technology space.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, like keeping up with that by itself is a feat, and then to become an expert, I mean, that's phenomenal.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_01: So wow, I'm very impressed.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like, yeah, you know, you're definitely like a go-to person for anything social media, then yeah.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: And I one thing I want to add with that, I love what you said about the millennial woman, and that again was my um beat at Forbes, is also that like we didn't have, like, for example, my dad was a lawyer, and then my brother became a lawyer, and they're like, Ray, you're a lawyer.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, my parents have no idea what I do, and they still don't get it.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so, like, like one day my dad was like, Wow, you uploaded a photo of a turkey during Thanksgiving onto my wall.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: Like, thank you so much.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, Oh my god, the things that I've done is like under access.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I think it's also neat for all these millennial women who are almost, you know, groundbreaking in that world too, in the sense that we didn't have, you know, to look up to anybody.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: We just charted our own path.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, and and then you don't get that validity, you know.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I see my parents be so proud of my brother, and I'm like, okay, guys, like I'm doing cool things here too, you know, but they just don't get it.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, we are literally twin flames, dude.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: We are literally twin flames.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I same.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and are you sure you don't have Indian parents?
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's exactly what it sounds like.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like my family, like literally, I mean, it's seriously, and and you know, that culture of like never congratulating women or like very seldom congratulating women for our achievements in the millennial generation.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_01: That was that was a whole culture, it still is, you know, even though we're growing into this era like new phase of you know women entrepreneurship and support women more and female positivity, it's like we still like the millennial generation of women, we are still very hard on ourselves and we're very hard on each other, I feel like, you know, it's it's just the culture because we grew up in it.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I I really, you know, yeah, and I think that that hardness that we put on ourselves can also help us achieve.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, even though it is kind of a negative um in society, but it's also can be a positive.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: So that's what I think is also cool um to see, as well as like the level that we want to rise up for the opportunities that we do have um relative to what our parents might have had, it's really neat.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_02: So it is cool that we can push ourselves hard as well, even though there is that um overarching um as what you mentioned.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and it's uh it's a lot of it's a lot of drive.
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's a lot of drive that comes with um the kind of upbringing I think that most millennial women that are you know very career driven.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like we we have this like crazy.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: I saw this quote, like I think you would love this quote.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: It was something like, I'm not crazy, or something.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it was something weird.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was like, I'm not crazy, I'm just batshit positive, or something like, or or passionate, sorry.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like the most awesome quote because I was like, Yeah, that's definitely defining a lot of the really successful women I know that you know that are in the same age group.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, so I I agree with you.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: And now I want to actually I want to move on and I want to um ask you because I know that it must be a very um interesting role to play to help businesses scale, right?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: With social media.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like it must be so interesting to work with different types of businesses.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, what is something that you like?
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: What's the process that you go through?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you have a process that you like kind of apply every time, or is it just, you know, whatever comes, you like kind of take it from there?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's the latter.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you know, when I have client outreach that want to work together and they say, Do you know, do you have a pricing sheet or do you have this or that?
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: I really just can't give them like a cookie size cutter that fits all because it doesn't.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's for each company, what their needs are, what their goals are, and how much they want to work together, um, whether that's like a full-time capacity or you know, writing tweets once a week or whatever it is.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's really understanding what their goals are, which platform makes most sense for them, and then how to best, you know, understand their brand voice, their messaging, all that jazz that goes under brand, and then be able to utilize that within the social media space.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_02: So again, like what's really fun is that I get to work really closely with each kind of company.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: company or brand or startup or investor that I work with to understand what their goals are and make it happen.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I also I have some you know questions because I like there's so many people, you know, I feel like right now everyone is in this like phase of having you have at least one social media account.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and you and you do judge yourself, I think sometimes on views and you judge people judge themselves on likes and you know all that kind of stuff.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like what is like can you give some advice to people listening in on that?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: Because honestly I think that's a that's a giant problem these days for the youth because they they really do judge themselves based on oh how many people like my post and how many people viewed my post like you know instead of thinking about like what am I putting out there?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_02: Totally yeah I mean I think that's just gonna be a never ending problem within the world of social media just because the way that these platforms created that virality like the viral loop or that oxycotton like excitement or oxytocin excitement you get when you get a like so there's so many things that are just placed within social media.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_02: For myself I feel like I always say like I'm in the world but I'm not of the world like I I'm in it because I you know have to do all this stuff for my brand and my business but I'm not like of it where I get encapsulated like I need to get followers or this or that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe just trying to have that distance with like the beauty of the creation is way more fun than the engagement and like really focus in on like you know a be present like when you're somewhere like don't you know don't miss out on a beautiful sunset because you're trying to get the perfect gram.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: And then B like just remember who your true friends are and just having fun with that actual creation because that at the core of all this stuff is like where the beauty and that lies it's not in like all the likes and I think we've seen with Instagram testing you know taking away the likes or or showing it differently like there needs to be a switch in that but um I don't think that's gonna happen anytime soon.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah yeah and also like hashtags I want to get your opinion on too if you don't mind because I don't understand them.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not gonna lie I really don't follow hashtags I don't know if anyone else is like me maybe I'm just weird but but like I don't follow hashtags like I don't like click on it and say save or anything.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like I you know when do you know when that started like when did that come out in social media like the whole hashtag this hashtag like when was that always around or did you kind of see the evolution of it?
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well I think it started with this guy Chris Messina from Twitter.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I love I mean hashtags were so impactful within the Twitterverse because that's where like the trending topics happen and that's how you can really understand what's going on like I utilize the hashtags on Twitter a lot like with shows like I'm like real housewives or you know only murders in the building and so then you can like really utilize that within Twitter to read.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm a big fan of that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Now Instagram is a whole different story and I know everybody obsesses over it.
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's like how many hashtags you put in and all that stuff they say to do 30 and you do like big niche ones small niche ones and again I don't know who actually looks at the hashtags but um I know I've gotten sales just off of including hashtags within my posts.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_02: So I always do it but I don't put too much credence in it.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_02: I think just creating a great content itself will will have more impact.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now what do you think like kind of defines like in an umbrella way like good content if you were to give someone advice like what do you think like good content is like or what it takes.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I definitely think you have to think about like how people connect just in general so like always having great like your face in it or like a good smile and sometimes you know I get caught up in this too where I'm like oh my arm looks so good.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: Of course everybody's gonna like it because my arm but my smile's not as good so it's like understanding how people actually look at a photo from like a uh just a genuine emotional connection is really important.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um the closest that's why selfies do so well.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: But then also you know authenticity vulnerability those are two key factors that everybody likes everybody connects to um I'm not the biggest fan of these but you know everybody does well when they take off their makeup and they say like this is me you know barefaced or whatever.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: People really like when people kind of take the you know the imperfection of life is something that people really enjoy.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think nowadays too like getting a you know like photo dumps right like before it was a curated photo that people face tune and people still face tune I just think you can totally see it.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: But like the photo Me too oh my gosh yes thank you yes thank you for saying that I can totally tell by the way I have any times on FaceTunes I lit okay I literally I've tell you the story I literally commented on this girl's post I didn't even say anything mean okay I was like I was like well um I can't see your pores because she was like her caption was daily daily skin look and I'm like I I can't see your pores dude like I can't as she got so upset like she messaged me DM'd me went on a rant she was like I think you're just insecure and you don't like yourself and I'm like no I'm really not I just like I really couldn't see your pores so I I know that people take it very seriously and I know that you know when you call them out on like face tuning or like you know using all these different filter apps and stuff people get very very sensitive about that.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah I I just wanted to like add that little blur bin because it's definitely an issue especially on Instagram.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I like in that story too I'm a huge fan of taking accountability and not just say somebody's a hater because it's like we've been in this world long enough to understand that people aren't haters.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: They just want the accountability of that influencer that they're looking at you know people look at content nowadays they we've we've had social for so long that they understand what these influencers are doing or or people in the space.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: So the more that you're authentic about things the better because the BS factor is really high right now.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no it's really high and also like I want to get your opinion on this because literally I made a post like on my personal account the other day and I I really want your opinion because I okay so we talked about body positivity right and I and I'm all about that like I really am.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm all about loving yourself loving your features loving everything you see about yourself and like if you want to put that on social media cool go ahead you know especially like when it comes to like for example skincare right the whole podcast about skincare so I can use that as an example people love posting their skin transformations and all that that's great but when it comes to body positivity I really don't think you need to be naked on every post that you put up and like I put that I made a post about that and I was like I I feel like that when you're being so like you're putting so much exposure out there it's like there's it's like too much.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a fine line you know what I mean in in terms of like are you really promoting body positivity or are you um creating another like you know I guess I idealistic view of how we should be looking at our bodies you know and I think and somebody wrote an article about this.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's what really kind of um ignited this idea for me.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to know what you think about that like all the all the nudes on Facebook or all the nudes on Instagram or semi-nudes.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I think body positivity I don't know if it was the article from the Dr.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_02: Sarah Gottfried I found it really interesting.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know if it was that one but like what's I mean that's a whole different story I want to be going to but um yeah I mean I think in general again back to like the BS factor if somebody just like does something that is like apparent for their own narcissism but then adds like body positive like again people are like we get it you know so I think that you just have to be authentic like people really have seen it all nowadays.
• 29:43
  SPEAKER_02: So you posting some sexy selfie or sexy bikini shot and then having like one little pooch of fat on your butt and be like I'm so body positive.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like no and you're like okay we get it you know I feel so empowered oh my god it took me so much to post this like dude yeah like you look like you're a model for like you know a magazine cover like please stop yeah yeah so I think sometimes those terms can be like weaponized in a way and so I yeah I just I think there's great movements coming out in these from you know social media that weren't around when we were younger and I think it's wonderful but I think if you're authentic to the movement as opposed to using it for your own narcissism or so your own you know likes or engagement then you know time to reflect on yourself.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know and that that's a really good point.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_01: And it actually you know this is another topic I I really want to discuss with you and get your viewpoint because I really feel like these days a movement quote unquote is like almost like another marketing thing.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think it's become a thing for marketing because like I'm sorry but like the movement of I don't know some some movement right and then everyone's doing it and it's becoming this like like this whole thing that everyone's now thinking about that no one was thinking about before you know and it's just like I feel like a lot of people and companies or you know promoters are using these like you know words and just kind of reeling people into thinking about things.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you feel about that like the whole movement thing you know or hashtags that go viral because it you know some movement is going on I mean I feel very passionately that this is the wrong direction.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_02: And the way that I saw this happen was with Israel and Palestine that happened maybe I don't know three to four months ago maybe and you know they create these caricature carousels that kind of take a very complex international relations uh issue and just put it into cute little Instagram captions and then people decide which is the right side to be on from Instagram and I think that there needs to be a bigger reflection point or understanding or all these other things than just reposting because it's the right thing to do.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no I totally agree with you and I know exactly what you're talking about.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's I had a problem with that too and also um you know for me it was um more so like you know I guess lately but in the last year or two it's been this weird every new month there's like um stop this race is hate it's like why don't we just stop racism in general like can we just talk about that?
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like can that be the movement?
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like no racism.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's like I of course I don't want Asian hate to happen.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_01: Of course I don't want hate against black people of course I don't want hate against you know Indian people and Pakistani people and whatever whatever whatever I don't want hate against any people but like stop using these like like micro like these little populations and like further I you know I guess uh marginalizing and segmenting people right and their views like it's be it's like causing I think in my opinion at least it's creating this like um you know more segregation of people and more you know like just clicks you know racial clicks and it I hate that I really hate that and that's the part of social media that I really you know for me it's very hard to really wrap my head around yeah it's I think it's just like cancel culture and Gen Z and the rise of identity politics but I think that it's interesting you know all like this is just a side note like I was um Sarah Blakely who's obviously an incredible entrepreneur she just sold Spanx for like 1.2 billion and I was watching the video she gave everybody in her company two first class tickets$10,000 and um what was super exciting what was super interesting is that I was reading all the comments and I was like wait nobody's just like great job there's something always to be said like where are the men in the company where is this and that and so it's like the comments of social media are even more interesting in creating another kind of interaction um in the whole ecosystem.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no that's really interesting you said that because I was just reading an article about like how to get more like TikTok exposure because like we are now start trying to be on TikToks concur anarchy is and like I was reading an article and literally um the author of that article said you don't want to tell people um like you want to lead them to like this like uh question mark so that the comments blow up and people go crazy in the comments and I'm sitting there thinking like that's kind of a bad thing.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're basically saying like start an argument in my comments because I need you to like do that so that I can get more views.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like this is so bad.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: This is not good.
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I think to the earlier question of what does good and I I worked for Kiva after I went to business school because I was really into impact investment and social venture capital.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: And like I skyrocketed their social because it was all like feel good quotes and this was like 2012.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that was like pretty like revolutionary then which is now so basic but like it was just like these happy quotes from like Gandhi or you know a happy story.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like that kind of stuff and it that does well on TikTok too but I think you know if you can make authentic happy stories or something that uplifts people really crave that and they want that they don't want this divisiveness.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know people are exhausted by divisiveness um especially with social media you go on Facebook and all this stuff with you know the COVID and everything else.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I think yes going back to one of your questions like what makes good content just have people feel good when they look at it and feel happy and a nice story with it.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think we're really craving that because there's so much bad in the world.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: So if you can just read something that's very happy like even this um one that was trending yesterday on Twitter about these black dads in Louisiana and they're like almost like the police at the school but they like come in and do like dad jokes and there's no fighting anymore.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like what a great breath of fresh air you know like we are with so much so like bring positivity and I will say this too as somebody who's been in the space for a really long time you can go viral off of like nastiness or whatever you want or being you know um out there in your opinions or anything you want you can go viral.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: That's not hard but it's like what's your long-term game I always say that to clients like where do you want to be think about that not just like the likes for the first you know for a spike of your name out there.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: I love that you said that because I was literally going to ask you I was like you know what is the difference um for a social media campaign being 10 minutes of fame versus true like you know longevity and like you know creating a name for yourself and you know having this like uh you know this this uh rapport with your with your you know uh followers so what is the what do you think really sets those things apart in terms of like the brands you've worked with like you know what's the what's the actual question sorry so okay yeah sorry let me repeat it so like uh basically like you know um there's a lot of there's a lot of accounts that have like their 10 minutes of fame right on social media like they do something crazy and it just blows up and then everyone's like oh my gosh versus other people who have like consistency right and they're and like you know they're making a name for themselves and it takes them longer but like you know I want to know your opinion about that like what that really takes because like you know for me I see a lot of accounts that are that that fall into that category of their 10 minutes of fame here it is you know it's like three videos go viral or something they'll do crazy things or whatnot.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: So what what do you think is like the best you know approach to that and and you know I just want your advice on it.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I would probably talk about my client that I've been with is um low Tony he is a CNBC contributor as well as he hosted CNBC the other week so that um shows his team made it longer than 10 minutes of fame but um he really came about in the writing space during Black Lives Matter because he's a black venture capitalist and there's really not many in the space.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And so he's able to create a really amazing article that we help put I helped put together called I'm a VC but still a black man in America.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: So that like super went viral and it wasn't like we just stopped there.
• 38:02
  SPEAKER_02: We really thought about how can we have that messaging like throughout and I think that kind of goes back to your ideas like the campaigns of what's 10 minutes and what's longer is like okay you have a great piece of content that goes viral people get to know you they see your name but like how do you continue that and I think that goes with like getting great partnerships like we did webinars on the topic or you know doing an ask me anything like taking um and then of course you got tons of press and that's why he's on CNBC all the time but that really shows like you can just have one great piece of content but then like utilize that going forward and forward and hopefully that viral piece of content you originally have has some kind of social impact because that's how people connect with you long term or even like um I think you probably know like Deepica like she's a great example of that.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: She has a viral video with the um the lipstick under her eyes and yes she did incredible with that but instead of just sitting there and be like cool I had a great video like she created a whole freaking community that led to a brand you know and that leads to a movement.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: And so I think if you have that it's like a really good combination of like a viral moment plus social impact plus building community and where you're kind of that influencer or thought leader plus consistency and like both low and ICND because well they're constantly you know creating content and making people feel part of their community.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_02: So um value may like it's so cool.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's so cool that you brought up DP God because honestly I I posted on her um like one of her posts just the other day and I was like listen as an Indian woman I'm telling you like you are one of the only real Indian women I've seen on social media.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm genuinely I told her I like I literally was like trust me those of us who are real we see real you know and she's like one of the most real content creators like in terms of just my own demographic like that I can relate with like realistically relate with you know what I mean so it's like I I completely see what you're saying with her because she's like her content is a great example I think to you know in general it's like she stays true to who she is and she's still coming out with like really cool stuff that everyone can relate with and I and I find that to be very very um rare in social media.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: You know there's not a lot of accounts that I can say I you know they're my go-to accounts I I watch them every day but hers is definitely one of them you know so I I agree with everything you said.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah and I always in my course I I bring her up because I talk about your founder story and what's your why and I feel like she's an incredible example of what's your why and so whenever I bring up her I feel like so many people who follow her are so impassioned because people just want to see you know influencers or thought leaders like show them themselves and she I think she has done a fabulous job with that but she can also get dolled up and do incredible stuff as well but she can also do business stuff and sell her merch and sell her product line.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it's really neat to see the evolution of the influencer as well and so like where you can come from there of like you're just not creating content for content's sake.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_01: You're just taking it to the next level yeah absolutely absolutely I hope everyone listening I hope you're taking notes because this is like the best information I've ever heard about social media obviously uh Kate is the expert so I hope you're taking notes because I definitely am I'm taking mental notes I I do want to ask you though Kate one more question I have because I'm very very um I I really don't know anything about this is the idea of this whole um you know social marketing thing now you know where Instagram has Instagram ads Facebook has Facebook ads etc etc so how does that really work I mean is it something that um is worth uh investing in for like microinfluencers or just smaller uh companies or do you think that it's uh you know we should go another route yeah I mean paid advertising is great in a lot of ways Facebook and Instagram are a little bit tough right now because they're um focusing on this iOS 14 change it's a little bit harder for small businesses but um I use Pinterest ads actually to build up my email list.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully you'll you'll put my email list information in there because I've gone from zero to 5,000 people using Pinterest ads and I have like 10 cents a clip.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_02: So even if you can don't do well on Facebook or Instagram there's other kind of ad platforms that you can use.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah I definitely think like a great combination within the social media marketing world of adding paid to your strategy.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: And again that's a much longer conversation but especially with organic reach going down paid is truly a way to get you know yourself in front of people you don't know have them buy into your product or join your mailing list or whatever your call to action is but I definitely am a big fan of it.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_02: I just think that it is a little bit hard right now for small businesses and so just be smart about how you want to be spending your money because I'm also a small business owner and I I understand the pain of spending a thousand dollars on a Facebook ad and not having good results.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and TikTok by the way charges like$15 for like two days of like promotion it's like nuts like their rates are crazy.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and that's a great point is to go on to as I said with Pinterest Pinterest was good for me because my audience is female entrepreneurs millennials but go find where your audience is if it's Snapchat Snapchat ads are cheap too TikTok as well so like go where you think your audience is you don't just have to do the Facebook Instagram suite yeah yeah I love that well you know Kate I want to ask you what's next for you I mean you are so talented you have done so much in your career I mean honestly wait till you guys read her bio it is phenomenal you know even more so than what we discussed here and you know I just want to ask you what's next what's your big next goal or vision or um if you want to tell us about that.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah I mean I think it's so awesome to do this podcast because I'm launching my course and it's all about how you as a small business owner entrepreneur whatnot I'm sorry wait I'm watching wait laugh say that again just say that loud so yeah so um what is the overall vision um going forward from here?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah definitely so I'm super excited to be on this podcast right now talking about my editorial journey because I'm gonna take those insights plus my own brand strategy as a PR consultant and launching my course on the Pitch Perfect program all about how to help small business owners early stage entrepreneurs investors be able to build their own brands using my uh being able to master the media and get press for themselves so super excited about that launching that in the next week or two.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully if this airs after that um you can sign up for my newsletter.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_01: I just am really into this online marketing space and truly connecting and writing to people and just being able to connect on a one-to-one basis is just really really oh my gosh you're gonna have to send me all that information because I want to do like a mini newsletter for you to all of our email people email list because like most of the people that follow us are small business owners and I feel like that this is perfect.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_01: They could really learn from you.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah I I'm gonna like after this I'm definitely gonna bug you for information about that because I want everyone listening like genuinely like if there's one person you should go to for advice it's Kate like honestly if you couldn't tell after this episode.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_01: So um yeah that I would love to like I would love that to send that out to my email list.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah wow thank you so much Kate this has been so cool I love talking to you you are so just insightful and brilliant and I love what you've done in the in in the social media space and yeah I would love to have you back anytime if you ever have the time.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah no I love it it's so good chatting with you.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like definitely vibing about this whole millennial female overpress executor of content and I like just I you know whenever I do podcasts I always want to make sure like please anybody out there listening like feel free to connect with me on any channel I just love hearing people's stories connecting with them and hopefully we can learn from one another so thank you so much.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah and I will tag everything uh you guys everyone listening I will tag uh Kate's personal uh accounts on this uh art for this podcast episode so definitely definitely go check out her page and stay tuned for that newsletter coming out because I'm definitely sending it out and if you haven't signed up for our email list make sure you sign up so you get it but thank you Kate this has been wonderful and I can't wait for part two awesome hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 46:42
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• 46:50
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• 46:56
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• 47:06
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• 47:12
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• 47:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you