Latest / Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast / “A Hideous Hermaphroditical Character”

Transcript

“A Hideous Hermaphroditical Character” · Plausibly Live - The Dave Bowman Show Podcast

0:00
History is strange, it's alien, and it won't give us what we
0:04
would like to have. Renewal by Anderson.
0:08
Bringing you our three of our Tuesday morning on this December
0:10
3rd of 2024 headline at billminute.com learning from
0:15
recent history. And we've done that for the last
0:17
couple of hours. Now we're going to go back a
0:20
little further because Tuesdays at 8:00 AM Dave Bowman is with
0:23
us with Dave does history. Dave, appreciate all the work
0:27
you put into this and look forward to what you've got for
0:29
us this morning, Sir. There are three things that
0:33
people say to me when they find out a little bit about me, when
0:37
they learn what I'm interested in and those kinds of things.
0:42
Usually it's deals with constitutional issues.
0:45
The first thing they tell me that is, is that if they had
0:48
been there in 1787, they would have done it differently.
0:53
And I always look at them and say, no, you wouldn't have, but
0:57
it's nice that you think that. The second thing they tell me is
1:02
that we've never been more divided.
1:04
Never. It's terrible, Bill.
1:07
We've never been so divided. And I always just kind of say,
1:11
you know what? Tell me you know nothing about
1:14
American history without telling me you don't know anything about
1:18
American history. The third thing they tell me,
1:20
and this is this is one of the more entertaining ones, is
1:24
politics has gotten so nasty. It's gotten it's gotten dirty.
1:30
It wasn't that long ago that we had a president who went on
1:32
radio to complain about the fact that other people were
1:36
complaining about him. Remember Bill Clinton on on the
1:40
on the airplane calling the radio station to complain about
1:42
Rush Limbaugh. Politics is so nasty.
1:47
Again, tell me you don't know anything about American history
1:52
without telling me. The election of 1800 stands as
1:57
one of the most transformative moments in American history.
2:02
In many cases, it is referred to as the Revolution of 1800.
2:08
It is going to mark the first peaceful transfer of power
2:11
between opposing political parties.
2:13
Now, we'd already had one where Adams took over from Washington,
2:17
but they belong to the same party.
2:19
This is the first time that we're going to have a party
2:23
shift and a transfer of party that power that way.
2:27
It's it's a milestone in our young Republic and our
2:30
experiment. The stakes are monumental. the
2:33
United States grappling with internal divisions, external
2:36
pressures. The outcome tests whether a
2:39
nation founded on the ideals of liberty and self government can
2:43
in fact navigate through the turbulence of partisan politics
2:47
without descending into chaos. Well, we're going to accomplish
2:51
one of those anyway. At the heart of the political
2:54
battle is Thomas Jefferson. Thomas Jefferson is the head of
2:58
the Democrat Republican Party. They are the Champions of states
3:02
rights and Aggregorian values. And of course, on the other side
3:06
is John Adams, the incumbent Federalist president who
3:10
prioritized centralized government and commercial
3:12
development. And their class is going to
3:14
symbolize a broader ideological rift within the country, one
3:20
between rural interests and urban growth.
3:24
And I would tell you as a complete aside, that has always
3:27
been the biggest division in our country, not race, not wealth.
3:33
It has always been rural versus urban.
3:36
There's also this question about alignment between France or
3:40
Britain and between fears of mob rule and concerns over
3:45
authoritarianism. Complicating the matter is the
3:49
vice presidential running mate of Jefferson, a guy by the name
3:52
of Aaron Burr. And Aaron Burr is one of those
3:55
characters in American history who, well, I, you can kind of
4:00
guess he's, he's, he's not everything he seems to be.
4:07
The election is going to unfold against the backdrop of fiercely
4:11
divided political climate. The Federalists under Adams have
4:15
alienated many people with a policy such as the Alien and
4:19
Sedition Act, a law which is still on our books, which is
4:23
seen as suppressing individual freedom.
4:26
Meanwhile, the Democrat Republicans, they're going to
4:28
energize their base with a vision of a more decentralized
4:32
people, central government and the passions and the strategy,
4:36
the campaign are going to lead to unprecedented events,
4:40
including, well, a tie in the Electoral College.
4:46
Remember that the 12th Amendment has not passed yet.
4:51
What do we do? This is going to reveal the
4:54
strengths and the fragilities of the nation's framework as
4:58
founded. And we pick it up in 60 seconds
5:02
right here on WMMB. Dave has laid out for us very
5:08
nicely the division in the country between urban and rural
5:12
areas and when these campaign goes went on Dave newspapers had
5:18
to be a big part of it. But speech giving as well.
5:21
How does a campaign play out in a situation like this?
5:25
Well, about like you would expect.
5:26
And again, we see the same urban, rural divide.
5:31
If you look at the map from the 262024 election, it's the exact
5:35
same divide. Always has been, always will be.
5:39
The the big issues in the 1800 campaign, which the newspapers
5:42
are going to pick up on, are deeply divisive.
5:49
The Federalist Party under John Adams is about centralized
5:53
government, centralized federal government.
5:55
They want a powerful central government.
5:58
And by the way, they want relationships closer with
6:01
Britain for the nation. Keep in mind, we just fought
6:08
Britain for the American Revolutionary War and we're 12
6:11
years away from fighting them again.
6:14
But Adams wants that closer relationship with them, the
6:17
Democrat Republicans under Jefferson and more about states
6:20
rights. And they want relationships with
6:23
France, not England, France, our ally during the war against
6:27
England. The problem is what's going on
6:30
in France right now, the French Revolution, while the terror
6:35
itself is winding down, the French Revolution is still this
6:40
chaotic, bizarre occurrence in which the French seem to have
6:47
collectively, what's the best phrase for it, gone cuckoo to
6:52
the point Bill where they're changing the color.
6:55
See, we think of the French Revolution is coming up with,
6:58
you know, not only chopping people's heads off, but, you
7:01
know, coming up with a metric system and stuff like that.
7:03
The French changed the calendar to a 10 day week with, you know,
7:08
12 hour days and did away with religion and all those kinds of
7:13
things. And this is stuff that makes
7:15
people uncomfortable unless you're of a very libertarian
7:18
bent, which of course Jefferson is.
7:22
The biggest issue, though, is something called the Alien and
7:24
Sedition Acts, which we've talked about before, along with
7:27
taxes and foreign policy. The Alien and Sedition Act was a
7:31
law that had been passed by the Federalist Congress under Adams
7:35
that essentially made it a Long story short, illegal to
7:39
criticize the government to the point where they were putting
7:44
people in jail in the United States of America, nine years
7:48
after passage of the 1st Amendment, they're putting
7:51
people in prison for criticizing the government.
7:56
Sound familiar? By the way, this law, portions
7:58
of it are still on the books. And portions of that law passed
8:03
in 1798 are the same law they're using to prosecute January 6
8:07
people. So it's still an issue even
8:11
today. The campaign becomes very bitter
8:17
again. Politics has become nasty these
8:20
days. No, politics isn't even close to
8:23
what it used to be. Newspapers today, I'm always be
8:27
amused by our arguments about newspapers and liberal media and
8:31
that kind of stuff. There was a time in this
8:33
country, bill, when every newspaper had a political bent.
8:36
That's what it was. It was there to present
8:39
political ideas that it's supported.
8:44
Newspaper for town? Exactly that.
8:45
Absolutely. It's the way it was.
8:48
I'm not clear on why people don't get that, but they don't
8:51
seem to. And it wasn't all that unusual
8:54
for newspapers to print articles critical of the other side.
8:59
And these articles, by the way, got very, very nasty.
9:06
There is a Democrat Republican paper that will print rumors
9:11
that John Adams wants to have his daughter marry one of the
9:16
sons of King George. Yes, that King George, King
9:21
George the Third, who's still around.
9:23
He wants his daughter to marry one of his sons, one of his
9:26
other lesser sons, to cement a more permanent relationship with
9:32
England, the way that old kings used to marry off their
9:34
daughters to to whatever. There are newspapers printing
9:38
ideas that John Adams wants to be the king of America, that
9:43
he's a monarchist. And of course, the flip side,
9:47
The Federalist Papers are printing articles about how
9:49
Jefferson, who not only is sleeping with one of his slaves,
9:55
is he's just like these French people.
9:58
He's crazy. He wants to get rid of God and
10:02
he wants to get rid of the calendar.
10:04
And if you put him in the presidency, it's going to
10:07
destroy us. I mean, look what it's done to
10:09
France. People's heads are going to be
10:11
cut off and that sort of thing. And this gets in the language of
10:15
the day. This gets very, very heated.
10:20
And it's, it's almost like we don't because we don't speak
10:26
that language that way. We don't understand how
10:29
vitriolic this is, vitriolic this is, but, but it really is.
10:34
The problem is that, of course, the popular vote means something
10:39
up to a point. We still have the Electoral
10:42
College. We don't have the 12th
10:44
Amendment. And so Jefferson is going to win
10:48
the election as the presidential candidate with Burris's vice
10:52
president. But that's not how we elect a
10:55
president. We elected an Electoral College
11:00
and we're about to find out doesn't quite work the way
11:03
people wanted to do because of, well, human nature.
11:09
A grumpy but peaceful transfer of power ahead of us today.
11:12
Dave does history right here on Bill Mick live.
11:15
Stay with us. Our weekly dive into history.
11:18
Jane Bowman joins us on Bill Mick Live Renewal.
11:23
By Anderson This our sponsor of the program.
11:25
Tell you more about them coming up in just a bit as we dig back
11:29
into the election of 1800 and a little different than what we
11:33
might have been expecting, Dave. Well, that's the thing about
11:38
politics is the more you think you know, the less you actually
11:43
know. So these newspapers are printing
11:47
these, these insults and again, people say to me all the time
11:52
politics has gotten nasty. You don't know nasty.
11:55
You really don't. I just want to give you 2 of the
11:57
insults that were printed. You ready?
11:59
I imagine this is going on all over the country.
12:02
One of the one of The Federalist Papers said that Jefferson is
12:05
quote, a mean spirited low lived fellow, the son of 1/2 breed
12:12
Indian squaw squired by a Virginia mulatto father, UN
12:16
quote. You imagine saying that about
12:22
somebody today. That would make him the
12:24
classical. No, not classical.
12:26
It would make him today's far left.
12:30
Meanwhile, the Democrat. Candidate for them, by the way.
12:33
Yeah. Meanwhile, the Democrat
12:35
Republican papers are saying of John Adams that he is, quote, a
12:39
repulsive pendant, UN quote. And you'll love this quote.
12:45
A hideous hermaphrodite hermaphrodorical character
12:51
hermaphroditical character UN quote that would have been a lot
12:58
better if I hadn't screwed it up, but you get the idea.
13:03
This is the kind of thing that's flying left and right.
13:06
And you could think those would have been out of bounds in that
13:08
society at the time. Your impression with.
13:11
The they were too. Prim and proper, they didn't do
13:13
that. You'd think, but again, it's a
13:17
misconception about our own history, Paula.
13:20
We've never been more divided and politics has gotten nasty.
13:24
Yeah, you want nasty, go go look at some of the elections of the
13:28
past and things that, you know, people wouldn't even think about
13:31
saying now. And they certainly wouldn't say
13:33
it as a flowery in his as flowery language.
13:38
Meanwhile, the election of 1800 goes on the the popular vote is
13:41
held, Jefferson wins. But this isn't how we elect a
13:46
president. We elect a president through the
13:48
Electoral College and under the initial system, this is before
13:54
the 12th amendment. The Electoral College voters
13:59
cast 2 votes, but they do not differentiate between President
14:05
and Vice President. You with me here?
14:09
Yes. So if you have a president
14:12
candidate and a vice president candidate and the electors go to
14:17
vote for this, what hat what do you have to do in order to make
14:20
sure that one of them becomes president you.
14:26
Have to make sure the electors are voting it correctly.
14:29
You have to make sure that one of the electors does not cast a
14:33
vote for the vice presidential candidate so that they don't end
14:37
up tied. Check.
14:40
Because under the rules now if they end up tied, it has to go
14:44
to the House, just like today. But you manipulate this so one
14:49
of the electors doesn't vote for Aaron Burr as president or just
14:53
vote for Aaron Burr, period, because you're not
14:55
differentiating between the two. You with me.
14:57
I know it's complex, but this is the way it works.
15:00
So of course, when they open the ballots on December 3rd, 1800
15:06
today, guess what happens? Apparently one of the electors
15:13
didn't get the word when they break down the vote.
15:20
Jefferson and Burr both have 73 votes.
15:24
Adams has 65. The others his his vice
15:27
presidential guy could pick me. They they get less, so they're
15:30
out. So we have a tie between the
15:32
presidential candidate and the vice presidential candidate.
15:36
And oh, by the way, Aaron Burr has a certain reputation amongst
15:42
the Federalists that Jefferson doesn't have.
15:48
So since we've screwed this up, now, what do we got to do?
15:54
Under the rules, we got to go to the House of the
15:56
Representatives, and you've got to have nine state delegations
16:00
support the president. Eight of the states are
16:04
controlled by Democrat Republicans, Jefferson's party.
16:08
Six of the states are controlled by the Federalists, so neither
16:12
has a majority. So how do you resolve this?
16:18
Well, you got to start voting. The problem is, of course,
16:24
people aren't getting the message.
16:27
And the problem is going to become very quickly apparent
16:30
that the federalist states do not like Jefferson.
16:33
They don't really like Aaron Burr, but they don't like him a
16:38
lot less than they don't like Jefferson.
16:40
And this thing is going to go on for days.
16:46
So now that the house has it and they're starting to, how
16:50
different is this procedure? Imagine this bill.
16:53
I I I don't know that you can even draw a comparison today.
16:58
But imagine if you will, Obama and Biden, both of whom wanted
17:04
to be president of the United States, correct.
17:09
Imagine if in the Electoral College, even though Obama wins
17:15
the popular vote, it ties. Now, you would expect Biden to
17:21
say, Oh, well, you know, one of you guys needs to vote for not
17:24
me, so that Obama wins and I become the vice president
17:28
because I have the second, the most votes.
17:30
That's what you would expect to have happen.
17:32
You would think yes. But.
17:34
They were taking them after all. Or were they?
17:38
If this situation has arisen, do you think Biden would be all
17:41
that excited about that? No.
17:44
Well, amazingly enough, neither is Aaron Burr now.
17:48
He's not actively going around going, you know, I'd really like
17:51
to be the president after all. But at the same time, he's not
17:56
discouraging people from voting for him saying, well, Jefferson
18:00
won, you should get vote for him, which raises a lot of
18:05
suspicions about Aaron Burr and his behavior.
18:10
There are 6 states, as I said, that are controlled by the by
18:15
the Federalist delegation and they don't like Jefferson at
18:19
all. They're they think he's crazy.
18:24
They don't really like Burr, but they think that if they if they
18:28
support him, maybe he'll be a little bit more helpful to them.
18:35
The lesser of two evils. The problem is, there's still 2
18:39
states out there that can't make up their minds.
18:41
Delaware and South Carolina are deadlocked.
18:43
If either one of those could get their stuff together, this would
18:47
all be over. But it doesn't happen.
18:52
They can't make up their minds. These other six states can't
18:56
resolve this. They can't say, well, Jefferson
18:59
should win. And so this goes on for 36
19:04
votes. Holy cow.
19:08
Remember all this nonsense about the voting for the for the House
19:11
Speaker? This is the president, folks. 36
19:16
votes over days without resolution.
19:23
Who's going to be president of the United States?
19:26
Who should be president? And how did we get to this point
19:29
where people can't, you know, follow their party's
19:32
instructions? And in the meantime, Aaron Burr
19:37
keeps kind of stirring things up a little bit by not being the
19:40
loyal patriot partyist that he should be.
19:44
And of course, that's going to lead to much more severe
19:47
consequences down the line. And we pick it up in moments
19:52
right here on WMMB Call. Bill at 321-768-1240 or use the
20:00
Talkback feature on the iHeartRadio app.
20:03
Dave Bowman bringing us Dave does history.
20:05
We'll get to your questions or comments coming up later in this
20:08
segment. Get yourself lined up now at
20:11
321-768-1240 as RENEWAL by Anderson brings you this hour of
20:15
the show. So we've got this thing in the
20:17
House of Representatives, Dave, we're tied between Thomas
20:21
Jefferson, Aaron Burr and John Adams.
20:24
Is he still in the mix at all at this point?
20:26
Or is he? Done.
20:27
No, Adams and Pinckney are out because they didn't get enough
20:31
votes. So it's it's Jefferson and Burr
20:34
with 73 votes each, and then you down to 65 for Adams.
20:39
Pinckney gets even less because, as it turns out, Federalists
20:42
know how to follow instructions. Democrat Republicans apparently
20:45
do not so, at any rate. Independent enough to say I
20:49
don't have to, yeah. A lot of this comes down to
20:54
questions about Aaron Burr and his his manipulation of the
20:59
process. You might say to yourself, look,
21:03
wouldn't, wouldn't Aaron Burr after the first vote, pull the
21:07
party aside, pull the the delegates aside and go, look,
21:11
Jefferson is the president, I'm the vice president.
21:17
Deal with it. But of course, you'd neither
21:20
state, neither party has the 9 requisite states.
21:22
Two states are abstaining. The other six are over there on
21:25
the Federalist side of it. And they're looking at it as if
21:28
we support Burr, he's not as radical as Jefferson is.
21:34
And we can, we can extract some concessions from him and we can,
21:40
you know, we can do some things that we wouldn't be able to do
21:43
with Jefferson. And instead of squelching that
21:47
kind of talk, Burr sort of encourages it by his lack of of
21:56
of countering it. In other words, he doesn't
22:00
necessarily say, yeah, I want to be president, but he doesn't not
22:05
say it. And this allows this to go on
22:08
for 36 votes. You mean a candidate who sees
22:13
the opportunity to be president suddenly decides this is not
22:17
about serving the country, it's about getting the top job?
22:22
I guess you could look at it that way.
22:23
When do we ever see this? How would the country be
22:28
different if Aaron Burr had become president in 1800 instead
22:32
of Thomas Jefferson? What would the relationship have
22:36
been between Jefferson and the the administration, given that
22:41
he actually won the popular vote and the election would how would
22:46
he have reacted to that? You know, years later from now,
22:49
we're going to see this, a similar thing happened where the
22:52
House gives the election to John Quincy Adams instead of Andrew
22:56
Jackson. And that's going to create a lot
22:59
of kerfuffle. Well, Ender and all this
23:01
Alexander Hamilton, who, of course, is distrustful of Aaron
23:06
Burr. And while not friendly with
23:09
Jefferson, remember that he and Jefferson have had some classic
23:12
battles while being in the cabinet for Washington.
23:15
They're on opposite sides. But he does not trust Aaron Burr
23:21
at all. And so he throws his reluctant
23:25
support behind Jefferson, which sort of influences things.
23:30
And eventually on the 36th ballot couple few days from now,
23:35
Delaware is going to change from abstaining to Jefferson and that
23:41
will help break the tie in Jefferson's favor.
23:44
Who will become the Jefferson goes on to become the president.
23:47
Burr becomes the vice president. And he is bitter as all get out
23:52
about this and he's got metaphorical axis to grind of
23:57
the people that that didn't support him and he's he's not
24:01
happy with them. Among them.
24:04
The probably the most prominent of those people, of course, is
24:07
Alexander Hamilton, who he's mad at because Hamilton said some
24:12
things during this this whole thing and this, this continues
24:17
to boil over until the Vice president of the United States,
24:22
Aaron Burr, challenges Hamilton to a duel and kills a man as the
24:28
vice president. Politics has never been so nasty
24:35
as today, right? Right.
24:37
Yeah. We've never been more divided.
24:41
He has to leave the country. And, of course, Jefferson will
24:43
end up choosing a different vice presidential candidate for the
24:46
18 O 4 election. In the meantime, the country
24:49
says, hey, this is crazy, this is stupid.
24:54
And while there's a a transfer of power between the Federalist
24:58
Party and the Democrat Republicans, and it's a peaceful
25:00
transfer, Jefferson will, in his inaugural address, say we're all
25:06
Republicans, we're all Federalists.
25:09
And as it turns out, Jefferson isn't quite the French radical
25:13
that people believe that he is, that the the Federalist believe
25:16
that he is. And in fact, it turns out that
25:18
he's more Hamiltonian than he is Jeffersonian is we're going to
25:21
find out when he buys Louisiana but forgets to tell Congress
25:26
until after the fact. He just, you know, writes the
25:28
check and says here, we'll, we'll take it, not a problem.
25:32
The country moves on. But we've decided that, hey,
25:35
this is a, this is kind of a bad way of doing this.
25:39
And the people who always say to me, you know, if I was there, I
25:42
would have done things differently.
25:44
Maybe one of the things we should have done differently was
25:46
this the initial setup for the Electoral College, this one,
25:50
this each elector casting two votes thing, they should have
25:54
been able to see that that wasn't going to work.
25:56
And in 18 O 4 June of 18 O 4, we passed the 12th Amendment, which
26:00
fixes that, at least for the time being.
26:03
And that prevents that from ever happening quite that way of get.
26:09
The election of 1800 proves to be a watershed moment.
26:12
It demonstrates the viability of a peaceful transfer of power
26:16
between politically divided nation.
26:20
It's this contentious battle. It tests our durability.
26:24
But it it will happen again. But time and time again, we will
26:29
switch back and forth between parties.
26:31
Despite bitter campaigns, constitutional crisis
26:35
precipitated by the Electoral College even in the year 2000,
26:40
the nation will emerge not just intact but stronger, with a
26:45
renewed commitment to the principles of government laid
26:47
out in our documents. The enduring lessons of this
26:51
election resonate deeply even today.
26:53
You see a lot of the same kind of things happening.
26:56
It reveals the inherent challenges of partisan politics,
26:59
deep ideological divides, and the difficulty of bridging
27:03
competing visions for the nation's nation's future.
27:07
Beyond its immediate impact, though, the election of 1800
27:10
shapes the presidency and party politics for generations.
27:13
You better start following instructions.
27:16
It solidifies the two party system, demonstrates the
27:20
political competition doesn't have to be causing instability
27:25
or violence, and Jefferson's eventual victory, framed as a
27:29
triumph for the will of the people as that, because we've
27:32
got to keep that in mind. Jefferson did win the popular
27:34
election. It established a precedent for
27:37
the peaceful resolution of political disputes.
27:40
And ultimately the Revolution of 1800, as it were, reaffirmed the
27:45
resilience of the constitutional process.
27:48
It offers us a powerful reminder that the strength of our nation
27:51
lies not in its perfection, but in its capacity to adapt and to
27:58
endure. You want in it's 321-768-1240.
28:03
We pick it up in 60 seconds on WMMB links to both Dave Bowman,
28:09
the Dave Bowman show and Dave does history hosted for you on
28:13
today's show page at billmc.com. So you can catch up with Dave in
28:16
the multiple podcasts he does there anytime.
28:18
The headline at billmc.com today learning from recent history and
28:23
let's get to your calls on the history Dave's been talking
28:25
about line one. You're up on Bill MC live.
28:27
Good morning. Good morning, Mario.
28:30
Cape Canaveral. You had mentioned, Dave, in the
28:34
beginning of, of your discussion, the, the, the
28:37
difference between or, or that there is a difference, there is
28:40
a difference between the rural people and their politics and
28:44
the, and the, and the city people.
28:47
And that's what I've noticed also over many, many decades.
28:52
And I'm, I'm wondering how, how the, the Electoral College plays
28:57
into that and how it played into that back in, you know, 1776,
29:01
you know, whatever, when they were, when they were creating
29:04
the, the Electoral College in the, in the Constitution and so
29:06
forth. Because they must have they,
29:09
they, they had to have seen that the rural people, and of course
29:12
we were mostly rural, were tended to be very different
29:16
politically than the city people anyway.
29:19
How is that playing out in today's in today's America?
29:22
Thanks, Mario. Go ahead, Dave.
29:24
Well, that's always been the biggest divide in our country
29:27
because of the differing and as it were, competing interests of
29:34
the urban versus the versus the rural during the constitutional
29:38
debates over the Electoral College course.
29:40
They didn't want a pure democracy.
29:43
They wanted a representative system.
29:45
And the Electoral College is designed to build a consensus.
29:48
You've got to win both of those systems.
29:52
And so where you really see this play out is during the
29:56
ratification debates. The urban areas are very
30:01
strongly pro Constitution because they see this as
30:05
beneficial to business and beneficial to the economy,
30:09
whereas the rural people aren't quite as on board with this.
30:13
They see a danger here of a centralized government becoming
30:17
too big, too powerful, too taxatious, and all the things
30:22
that really is the anti federalist will predict will
30:25
come to pass. And it's that argument in South
30:28
Carolina during the ratification debates, the the government of
30:33
South Carolina, the legislature intentionally does not allow the
30:38
rural areas access to the information for the for that
30:42
purpose to keep them from from being involved in the process.
30:46
It's, it's, it's a really bizarre story, but it's, it is
30:49
entertaining. It is that Line 2.
30:51
You're up on Bill Mick live. Good morning.
30:54
Good morning, Bill. Good morning, Dave.
30:56
Merry Christmas to y'all, Brody. You too, Brody.
30:58
What's up here? Hey Dave, every time you say
31:03
stay bright to me, I just, I just feel like you got your
31:07
nails on the top board and you're just sliding it down.
31:10
It just, it just kills me. I just I just want to know your
31:15
opinion on states rights. Do you think states right should
31:18
be hold more accountable than than even federal rights or
31:23
federal law? Whatever, that's all.
31:25
Thanks Brody. Well before you go there Brody,
31:29
what do you mean when you say still you already cut him off?
31:32
Yeah. Oh, sorry.
31:34
My question is always encounter to that, what do you mean when
31:37
you say states? Rats.
31:41
The problem is for me that the term states rights comes from 2
31:48
distinct periods in our our history.
31:51
The the Constitution is a federalist system.
31:55
In other words, states have certain rights reserved to them.
31:58
The people have rights reserved to them, the federal government
32:01
has rights reserved to them. But the term states rights
32:06
became an issue, of course during the secession crisis and
32:09
during the Civil War. Well, what state right was it
32:12
that they were arguing in favor of?
32:15
Not my words, their words. What did they say?
32:19
Was the state right that was being taken away from them?
32:22
Slavery. And during the Jim Crow era, you
32:26
had a very similar process. It's a term that I don't like.
32:28
I don't like the word states rights.
32:30
I prefer rights reserved to the states.
32:33
But that's a different subject for a different day.
32:36
And we're out of time. Dave, thank you.
32:37
We'll see you next week. See you then check out more
32:44
stories from History at davedoeshistory.org.