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Killer Tries to Outsmart Cops with Mountain Dew · Murder Files Unsealed

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Speaker 1: I want to set a scene for you and we
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Speaker 1: need to just, you know, drop right into the middle
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Speaker 1: of it.
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Speaker 2: Okay, let's hear it.
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Speaker 1: So it is 3 a.m. in Daytona Beach, Florida.
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Speaker 2: Right.
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Speaker 1: The neon strip is completely quiet. The humidity is super thick,
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Speaker 1: like the kind that just hangs in the air long
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Speaker 1: after the sun goes down.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, that classic Florida summer night.
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Speaker 1: Exactly. And walking down the middle of this totally deserted
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Speaker 1: street is a woman.
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Speaker 2: Just by herself.
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Speaker 1: Completely by herself. She's barefoot. She is incredibly thin, and
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Speaker 1: she has this medical walking cast on one of her legs.
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Speaker 2: That's unusual enough at three in the morning.
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Speaker 1: Right, but the part that really stops you cold is
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Speaker 1: what she's holding. In one hand, she is gripping a hammer.
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Speaker 2: Oh, wow.
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Speaker 1: And in the other hand, she has a steak knife,
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Speaker 1: and both of them are just covered in blood.
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Speaker 2: I mean, that is the absolute definition of a waking
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Speaker 2: nightmare for anyone to stumble across.
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Speaker 1: Truly.
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Speaker 2: You have a person wandering the streets... armed, completely detached
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Speaker 2: from whatever typical reality is happening at that hour, just
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Speaker 2: carrying the immediate aftermath of extreme violence.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And it gets worse because just five blocks away
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Speaker 1: from where she is aimlessly walking, emergency responders are pulling
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Speaker 1: up to a house.
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Speaker 2: Five blocks. That's really close.
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Speaker 1: Super close. Smoke is pouring out of the second floor windows.
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Speaker 1: So firefighters force their way inside, pushing through this intense
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Speaker 1: heat to find the source of the fire.
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Speaker 2: Which is standard procedure for them. Right.
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Speaker 1: But they find something else entirely. Lying on the floor
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Speaker 1: of a burning bedroom is a 79-year-old man. Oh, man.
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Speaker 1: He has been stabbed multiple times. He has severe blunt
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Speaker 1: force trauma. And, you know, he is actively bleeding out.
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Speaker 2: So you immediately have two highly volatile, incredibly dangerous scenes
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Speaker 2: completely separated by geography. Right. But inextricably linked by this
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Speaker 2: timeline that is just rapidly collapsing. Exactly.
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Speaker 1: Exactly. But here is the bizarre twist. And this is
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Speaker 1: the detail that is going to completely derail any expectation
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Speaker 1: you might have about where this deep dive is going.
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Speaker 2: I'm ready.
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Speaker 1: Within three hours of that tragic discovery in the burning house,
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Speaker 1: that barefoot woman wandering the strip, who is obviously the
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Speaker 1: prime suspect, is going to be sitting in the back
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Speaker 1: of a police cruiser. And she is going to take
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Speaker 1: a giant can of Diet Mountain Dew. pop it open,
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Speaker 1: and pour it entirely over her own head and body.
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Speaker 2: Which is just wild to even picture.
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Speaker 1: It is, and the reason why is even crazier. She
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Speaker 1: does this because she is fully, genuinely convinced that this
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Speaker 1: specific diet soda will dissolve her DNA on a molecular level.
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Speaker 2: Like it's some sort of acid?
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Speaker 1: Yeah, she thinks it'll just hide the truth of what
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Speaker 1: she's done.
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Speaker 2: You know, it sounds absurd, right? Almost like a piece
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Speaker 2: of dark, surrealist comedy.
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Speaker 1: Seriously.
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Speaker 2: But that single desperate act with a carbonated beverage actually
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Speaker 2: becomes the fulcrum of an incredibly dense legal battle. It
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Speaker 2: forces the justice system to answer a nearly impossible question
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Speaker 2: about human consciousness and, well, intent.
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Speaker 1: Right. So welcome to this deep dive. Today we are
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Speaker 1: walking you through a stack of really intense source material.
3:01
Speaker 2: Very intense.
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Speaker 1: We've got actual police body cam transcripts, raw crime scene
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Speaker 1: investigation reports, and this deeply disturbing interrogation room transcript. All
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Speaker 1: of this surrounds the murder of a 79-year-old man named
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Speaker 1: Michael Sarasoli, who went by Mike at the hands of
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Speaker 1: his roommate, Nicole Max.
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Speaker 2: And our mission here today isn't just recounting a timeline,
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Speaker 2: you know. We are really looking at the collision of
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Speaker 2: forensic myths, specialized cognitive police tactics, and honestly, the devastating
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Speaker 2: tragedy of a mind shattered by untreated trauma.
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Speaker 1: Okay, let's unpack this. Because to understand how we get
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Speaker 1: to a suspect pouring soda on herself in a squad car...
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Speaker 1: We have to look at the environment she left behind. Right.
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Speaker 2: We have to look at that house. And we have
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Speaker 2: to view it through the eyes of the first people
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Speaker 2: who crossed the threshold, which in this specific case were
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Speaker 2: not homicide detectives.
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Speaker 1: They were firefighters.
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Speaker 2: Exactly. And that distinction changes everything about how this crime
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Speaker 2: scene was preserved or, well, how it wasn't preserved more accurately.
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Speaker 1: Because the 911 call didn't mention an assault or a
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Speaker 1: murder at all, right? It was literally just a fire alarm. Right.
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Speaker 2: So when the fire engine pulls up, There are no
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Speaker 2: police units there yet. There's no yellow crime scene tape.
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Speaker 2: There's no cautious, methodical entry by guys in booties and gloves.
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Speaker 1: They just see smoke and they make entry.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, because the tactical reality of a firefighter entering what
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Speaker 2: we call an IDLH environment.
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Speaker 1: IDLH, what does that stand for?
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Speaker 2: Oh, it stands for Immediately Dangerous to Life or Health.
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Speaker 1: Gotcha.
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Speaker 2: That environment is entirely counter to forensic investigation. I mean,
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Speaker 2: think about the physics of a house fire. The thermal
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Speaker 2: layers bank down from the ceiling. Visibility is zero. The
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Speaker 2: sound is absolutely deafening.
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Speaker 1: Right. They aren't looking for clues.
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Speaker 2: Not at all. Firefighters aren't walking upright looking for, you know,
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Speaker 2: blood spatter. They are crawling beneath the smoke layer, dragging
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Speaker 2: heavy hoses, swinging axes, wearing bulky turnout gear that completely
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Speaker 2: restricts their tactile sensation.
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Speaker 1: I read the transcript of the firefighter's account from the source.
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Speaker 1: And he talks about pushing up the stairwell to the
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Speaker 1: second floor.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And immediately to his left, there is a pile of
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Speaker 1: clothes and a mattress that have been set on fire.
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Speaker 1: It's actively burning. But right there, perilously close to the flames,
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Speaker 1: they find Mike.
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Speaker 2: And this is where the mission completely overtakes the preservation
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Speaker 2: of evidence.
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Speaker 1: Because they have to save him.
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Speaker 2: Exactly. If a homicide detective walks into a room and
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Speaker 2: sees a body, their job is to freeze time. Nothing moves.
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Speaker 2: The angle of the victim's arm... The dust on the floor,
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Speaker 2: the position of a knocked over chair, it's all data
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Speaker 2: to them. Right.
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Speaker 1: They document everything before they touch it.
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Speaker 2: But a firefighter's prime directive is extraction. At that exact moment,
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Speaker 2: they have no idea if Mike is dead or just
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Speaker 2: incapacitated by smoke inhalation.
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Speaker 1: The firefighter notes that Mike has a blanket partially pulled
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Speaker 1: over him, but his head is exposed. And even in
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Speaker 1: the heavy smoke, under the beam of his flashlight... The
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Speaker 1: responder sees blood pooling around Mike's head on the floorboards.
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Speaker 2: Which introduces a massive variable right away. Did this 79-year-old
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Speaker 2: man try to escape the fire, fall, and sustain a
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Speaker 2: massive head injury?
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Speaker 1: Or was the fire set specifically to hide the fact
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Speaker 1: that he was already bleeding? Right.
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Speaker 2: But the firefighter can't stop to ponder that. They execute
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Speaker 2: the rescue. They physically drag Mike out of the burning room,
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Speaker 2: down the stairs, and out to the front yard where
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Speaker 2: a paramedic named Terry takes over.
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Speaker 1: It's out on the lawn, away from the smoke. that
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Speaker 1: the reality of the situation actually hits the paramedics.
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Speaker 2: Because they can finally see him clearly.
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Speaker 1: Exactly. Terry begins the medical assessment and immediately realizes they
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Speaker 1: aren't just dealing with smoke inhalation or a bad fall.
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Speaker 1: Mike has five distinct stab wounds.
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Speaker 2: Five. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: And he has severe blunt force trauma to his head
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Speaker 1: and body. Plus, back upstairs near where he was found,
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Speaker 1: firefighters discover a toppled gasoline can.
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Speaker 2: So the physics of the scene now tell a very specific,
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Speaker 2: grim story. Stabbing is an intimate, high-effort crime. Blunt force
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Speaker 2: trauma requires a lot of exertion.
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Speaker 1: It's exhausting work, essentially.
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Speaker 2: Extremely. So following that up by pouring accelerant and setting
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Speaker 2: a fire is a frantic attempt to erase the narrative.
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Speaker 2: Whoever did this wanted the house, the body, and all
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Speaker 2: the evidence completely destroyed.
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Speaker 1: But they failed. The timeline is actually what trips up
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Speaker 1: the arsonist here.
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Speaker 2: The timing was incredibly close.
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Speaker 1: First responders note that rigor mortis hasn't even begun to
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Speaker 1: set in. Mike's body temperature hasn't dropped significantly relative to
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Speaker 1: the ambient heat. Detectives eventually pinned the time of death
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Speaker 1: to an incredibly tight window.
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Speaker 2: Like how tight?
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Speaker 1: Somewhere between 1.10 a.m.
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Speaker 2: And 1.40 a.m.
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Speaker 1: Wow, so the.
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Speaker 2: Flames were fresh.
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Speaker 1: Very.
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Speaker 2: If that fire had burned for even another 20 minutes,
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Speaker 2: the structural collapse of the roof would have buried the evidence,
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Speaker 2: and the extreme heat would have degraded the blood evidence
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Speaker 2: and potentially the stab wounds themselves.
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Speaker 1: Which means the police would have been starting from absolute zero?
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Speaker 2: Exactly. They would be reconstructing Mike's financials, pulling his phone records,
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Speaker 2: looking for enemies. A manhunt could have taken months.
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Speaker 1: Instead, it took minutes, and they didn't even have to
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Speaker 1: look for her.
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Speaker 2: It's almost like a glitch in a video game, you know?
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Speaker 1: Yes, that's the perfect analogy. The police are gearing up
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Speaker 1: for this massive, complex arson homicide mystery, and the answer
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Speaker 1: literally just walks in front of their headlights holding the
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Speaker 1: murder weapons.
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Speaker 2: The sheer statistical improbability of that is staggering. A patrol
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Speaker 2: officer happens to be driving near a local business called
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Speaker 2: Crystals on Mason Avenue, which is about five blocks from
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Speaker 2: the chaos of the fire, and he just spots her.
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Speaker 1: And let's be clear, even without a murder radioed in,
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Speaker 1: her appearance screams probable cause for a stop.
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Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
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Speaker 1: It's the middle of the night. She is emaciated. She
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Speaker 1: is wearing barely any clothing. She has a medical boot
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Speaker 1: on her foot. And as soon as the cruiser's headlights
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Speaker 1: hit her, she tries to just like speed walk away.
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Speaker 2: Right. Trying to act casual but failing.
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Speaker 1: So the officer hits the lights. She turns around and
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Speaker 1: she clumsily drops everything she is holding right onto the pavement.
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Speaker 2: A hammer, an open folding knife, bags of prescription pills,
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Speaker 2: a bag of men's clothing, all of it just clattering
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Speaker 2: onto the street.
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Speaker 1: And she has visible fresh blood smeared all over her
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Speaker 1: medical cast. The officer, trying to figure out what the
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Speaker 1: heck he's looking at, asks if she needs an ambulance
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Speaker 1: because of the blood.
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Speaker 2: And what does she say?
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Speaker 1: She just looks down with her leg and casually says,
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Speaker 1: that's mine too.
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Speaker 2: What's fascinating here is the officer's immediate reaction, because it
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Speaker 2: is a master class in what forensic investigators call forensic hygiene.
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Speaker 1: Forensic hygiene, right. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: The moment that hammer and knife hit the ground, the
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Speaker 2: entire integrity of a future murder trial is on the line,
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Speaker 2: even though the officer doesn't even know there's a murder yet.
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Speaker 1: Right. He's just responding to a weird person on the street.
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Speaker 1: So explain the mechanics of that. I know cross-contamination is bad,
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Speaker 1: but how bad can it really be on a paved
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Speaker 1: street at 3 a.m.? It can be catastrophic. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: You have to consider locard's exchange principle which is really
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Speaker 2: the foundational theory of forensic science which is what exactly
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Speaker 2: it states that every contact leaves a trace okay so
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Speaker 2: the officer immediately begins putting on gloves and bagging the
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Speaker 2: items but crucially he bags every single item individually the
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Speaker 2: knife goes in one plastic bag the hammer goes in
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Speaker 2: a completely separate bag the clothes go in another.
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Speaker 1: Because if you just scoop them all up into one
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Speaker 1: big evidence bag... The.
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Speaker 2: Defense attorney would have the case thrown out before it
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Speaker 2: even reached a jury.
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Speaker 1: Wow, really? Just from that?
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Speaker 2: Oh, yeah. Imagine the victim's DNA is only on the knife.
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Speaker 2: But in a single bag, the knife rubs against the hammer.
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Speaker 2: The blood transfers. The hammer tests positive for the victim's DNA.
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Speaker 1: Ah, good stuff.
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Speaker 2: The defense will stand up in court and say, you know,
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Speaker 2: the police contaminated the evidence. The hammer wasn't used in
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Speaker 2: the crime. The police merely rubbed it against the actual
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Speaker 2: weapon in their own evidence bag. You can't trust anything
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Speaker 2: they processed.
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Speaker 1: That makes total sense. So by isolating each item the
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Speaker 1: second it leaves her possession, the officer is basically building
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Speaker 1: an impenetrable wall around the physical evidence.
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Speaker 2: Exactly. And the items themselves are bizarre.
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Speaker 1: Totally bizarre. She drops a pair of shorts. And when asked,
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Speaker 1: she claims the pants she's wearing are hers, but the
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Speaker 1: shorts belong to someone else. There's a lighter in the pocket.
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Speaker 1: And when the officer asks about the bloody hammer... She
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Speaker 1: just shrugs.
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Speaker 2: Just shrugs.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, she literally says, I found some in the closet.
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Speaker 1: She acts as if strolling through Daytona Beach barefoot with
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Speaker 1: a bloody knife and a hammer is the most mundane
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Speaker 1: thing in the world.
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Speaker 2: That flat effect, that lack of appropriate emotional response to
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Speaker 2: a really high-stress situation, it signals to the officers that
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Speaker 2: they are dealing with a deeply unpredictable psychology.
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Speaker 1: Right.
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Speaker 2: And it forces a massive tactical shift. They have the
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Speaker 2: weapons secured. They have the suspect detained. Now, they have
11:49
Speaker 2: to figure out how to get a clearly erratic woman
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Speaker 2: to connect herself to a burning house five blocks away.
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Speaker 1: Which means we move from physical forensic hygiene to psychological maneuvering.
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Speaker 1: The street interrogation begins. And reading the transcript of how
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Speaker 1: this officer, who is identified as Joey, handles it, it
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Speaker 1: is fascinating. He completely abandons the aggressive TV cop routine.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a calculated deployment of conversational interviewing.
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Speaker 1: He walks up and just plays the friendly guy he has.
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Speaker 1: You're doing all right tonight. Have you eaten anything? You
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Speaker 1: got a drunk? He introduces himself simply as Joey.
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Speaker 2: Very disarming.
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Speaker 1: Super disarming. He asks where she's from. She says Michigan.
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Speaker 1: And Joey doesn't skip a beat. He says he used
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Speaker 1: to work in Kalamazoo, Michigan. Suddenly, they're standing on the
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Speaker 1: street corner, bonding over how much they both hate the
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Speaker 1: freezing winters up north and how she moved down to
12:37
Speaker 1: Florida for the palm trees.
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Speaker 2: There is a deep neurobiological reason why law enforcement uses
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Speaker 2: this soft approach, especially with agitated suspects.
12:46
Speaker 1: Because yelling wouldn't work.
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Speaker 2: Exactly. When a person feels threatened, their amygdala, which is
12:52
Speaker 2: the fear center of the brain, basically hijacks their processing.
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Speaker 2: They become hypervigilant. They either shut down completely and refuse
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Speaker 2: to speak, or they rigidly stick to a pre-rehearsed, very
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Speaker 2: short lie.
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Speaker 1: Right. Their defenses are dialed to 11.
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Speaker 2: Exactly. But when Joey acts like an old friend from
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Speaker 2: the Midwest, when he lowers the stakes of the conversation
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Speaker 2: to weather patterns, He's actively trying to downregulate her nervous system.
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Speaker 1: Make her feel safe. Right.
13:20
Speaker 2: When a suspect relaxes, their cognitive defenses drop. They start
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Speaker 2: talking freely. And when someone is talking freely and improvising,
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Speaker 2: they make mistakes. They offer up tangential information that they
13:31
Speaker 2: otherwise would have guarded with their life.
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Speaker 1: It also bypasses the Miranda requirement at that specific moment,
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Speaker 1: doesn't it? Like, she isn't technically under arrest for a
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Speaker 1: homicide yet. She is just a person of interest being
13:42
Speaker 1: detained for carrying weapons.
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Speaker 2: Correct. The threshold for a custodial interrogation hasn't fully been
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Speaker 2: crossed in a way that requires him to read her
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Speaker 2: rights before asking casual questions about her night. He's creating
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Speaker 2: a comfortable space, and she steps right into it, pouring
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Speaker 2: out this completely tragic, chaotic life story.
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Speaker 1: The source transcript paints a really devastating picture. Nicole Max
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Speaker 1: is 35 years old. She tells Joey she's from Pontiac, Michigan.
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Speaker 1: She reveals she lost her mother when she was in
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Speaker 1: her early 20s.
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Speaker 2: That's incredibly tough.
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Speaker 1: Yeah. And her father, who she describes as her main
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Speaker 1: support system, died from severe addiction issues. She talks about
14:19
Speaker 1: being the caretaker for four dying family members before she
14:23
Speaker 1: finally left for Florida.
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Speaker 2: You are looking at the compounding architecture of severe trauma
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Speaker 2: right there.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: Unprocessed grief, systemic family addiction, the stress of caregiving, all
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Speaker 2: piling on top of a very fragile psyche.
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Speaker 1: And it shattered her stability entirely. She admits she has
14:39
Speaker 1: been chronically homeless for four or five years. And the
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Speaker 1: timeline of her night gets even more chaotic. She tells
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Speaker 1: Joey she just came from Halifax Health Medical Center, the
14:48
Speaker 1: local hospital, because she suffered a massive panic attack while
14:51
Speaker 1: walking on a treadmill at a gym.
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Speaker 2: So we know her nervous system was already redlining hours
14:56
Speaker 2: before the fire even started.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
14:57
Speaker 2: But the conversation takes an even darker turn when Joey
15:00
Speaker 2: notices her arms.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, he sees marks on her arms, scars. He gently
15:05
Speaker 1: asks about them. And Nicole doesn't hide it at all.
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Speaker 1: She openly admits they are self-harm scars from what she
15:11
Speaker 1: calls psychological problems.
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Speaker 2: And her explanation for them is chilling.
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Speaker 1: Very. She tells the officer, someone told me to do
15:18
Speaker 1: that to myself and I did it. Joey asks who
15:21
Speaker 1: told her that. Her response, there's some people in my head.
15:24
Speaker 2: That isn't a figure of speech. She is clearly and
15:26
Speaker 2: calmly articulating active auditory hallucinations to a police officer on
15:30
Speaker 2: the street. It is a massive red flag that her
15:33
Speaker 2: grip on reality is currently fractured.
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Speaker 1: So Joey is standing there with a woman who is bleeding, armed,
15:40
Speaker 1: bonding over Michigan weather, And calmly explaining the voices in
15:44
Speaker 1: her head. But Joey has a job to do. He
15:47
Speaker 1: has the rapport built. Now he has to spring the trap.
15:50
Speaker 1: He has to connect her to Mike.
15:52
Speaker 2: And he does it by deploying a technique known as
15:54
Speaker 2: cognitive overload.
15:55
Speaker 1: Here's where it gets really interesting. Joey pulls out a
15:58
Speaker 1: photograph of the victim, Mike Sarasoli. He holds it up
16:02
Speaker 1: to Nicole and says, tell me if this person looks familiar.
16:05
Speaker 1: I want to break down what happens in the next
16:06
Speaker 1: 30 seconds because her story completely collapses on itself.
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Speaker 2: Let's hear it.
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Speaker 1: First, she looks at the photo and immediately says, I
16:13
Speaker 1: don't know anybody. Hell no.
16:15
Speaker 2: A complete denial.
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Speaker 1: Literally a second later, she pivots. She says, I know
16:20
Speaker 1: a couple Mikes. I was with him or by him.
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Speaker 1: I lived with him. Wow. Joey immediately pushes back. He says, wait,
16:26
Speaker 1: you just told me you were homeless for four years.
16:29
Speaker 1: So she flips a third time. She backpedals and says,
16:31
Speaker 1: I don't know him. Well, he looks like the other Mike.
16:34
Speaker 2: So she's spiraling.
16:35
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Joey presses her on the contradiction again. Finally,
16:39
Speaker 1: the fourth version. She admits, he's my roommate. And then
16:43
Speaker 1: she adds this completely bizarre detail, claiming Mike just brought
16:48
Speaker 1: her a breakfast burger from a racetrack gas station to
16:52
Speaker 1: the hospital.
16:52
Speaker 2: From total stranger to former roommate to mistaken identity to
16:57
Speaker 2: current roommate who brings her sandwiches, all in 30 seconds.
17:01
Speaker 1: But I have to stop here and challenge this tactic, honestly.
17:03
Speaker 2: Okay, go ahead.
17:04
Speaker 1: If I'm sitting on a jury and I watch a
17:06
Speaker 1: body cam video of a woman who just admitted she
17:08
Speaker 1: hears voices... And she gives four different answers in 30
17:11
Speaker 1: seconds about a photograph. How does a prosecutor actually use that?
17:16
Speaker 2: It seems contradictory, right? Yeah.
17:18
Speaker 1: A defense attorney would just laugh and say, look at her.
17:20
Speaker 1: She's hallucinating. None of this is a calculated lie. She's
17:23
Speaker 1: just profoundly unwell. Does a messy, delusional contradiction like this
17:28
Speaker 1: actually hold legal weight for a conviction?
17:30
Speaker 2: It holds immense legal weight. And the mechanics of why
17:33
Speaker 2: are fascinating. It comes down to how the brain manages
17:36
Speaker 2: working memory. When police use cognitive overload... They aren't expecting
17:40
Speaker 2: a clean cinematic confession.
17:42
Speaker 1: Like they don't expect her to say, I did it.
17:44
Speaker 2: Exactly. They aren't expecting her to break down crying and say, yes,
17:48
Speaker 2: I stabbed him. They are forcing her brain to process
17:52
Speaker 2: too many variables at once.
17:54
Speaker 1: Like overloading a computer's RAM.
17:56
Speaker 2: Precisely like that. Telling the truth is cognitively easy. You
18:00
Speaker 2: just recall a memory. Telling a lie requires massive computational power.
18:06
Speaker 2: You have to invent a false narrative, hold it in
18:08
Speaker 2: your working memory, Monitor the officer's face to see if
18:11
Speaker 2: he believes you. Remember the facts of the actual truth
18:14
Speaker 2: so you don't accidentally reveal them. And adapt your lie
18:17
Speaker 2: in real time when challenged.
18:18
Speaker 1: So when Joey hits her with the photo, her RAM
18:21
Speaker 1: just maxes out.
18:22
Speaker 2: Yes. The structure of her deception collapses entirely. Now, to
18:25
Speaker 2: your point about the defense attorney arguing she's just unwell,
18:28
Speaker 2: if we connect this to the bigger picture, here is
18:31
Speaker 2: how the prosecutor defeats that argument. The prosecutor points to
18:34
Speaker 2: the sequence. First, she said, I don't know him. Then
18:37
Speaker 2: she admitted she lived with him. The prosecutor tells the jury,
18:41
Speaker 2: if she was completely detached from reality, if she was
18:44
Speaker 2: just babbling randomly, why did her first instinct lean toward
18:48
Speaker 2: distancing herself from the victim?
18:50
Speaker 1: Oh, wow.
18:51
Speaker 2: The fact that she attempted to lie about knowing him
18:54
Speaker 2: proves she possessed a consciousness of guilt.
18:57
Speaker 1: Ah, even through the haze of the hallucinations, her brain recognized,
19:01
Speaker 1: you know, I am in trouble. I need to hide
19:03
Speaker 1: my connection to that specific man.
19:05
Speaker 2: Exactly.
19:06
Speaker 1: Right.
19:06
Speaker 2: Even a poorly executed lie proves intent to deceive. It
19:11
Speaker 2: establishes that part of her mind understood that what happened
19:14
Speaker 2: in that house was wrong and needed to be hidden.
19:17
Speaker 1: That makes perfect sense. And you can actually see that
19:19
Speaker 1: self-preservation instinct kick in because caught in this web of
19:23
Speaker 1: rapid fire contradictions, Nicole realizes she is losing. She abruptly
19:28
Speaker 1: stops talking and demands a lawyer.
19:30
Speaker 2: Which legally halts the street interrogation immediately. The police can
19:33
Speaker 2: no longer ask her questions about the crime.
19:35
Speaker 1: Which means it's time to transport her to the station.
19:39
Speaker 1: And this transition from the street to the squad car
19:42
Speaker 1: triggers one of the most unbelievable forensic countermeasures I have
19:46
Speaker 1: ever heard of in true crime.
19:47
Speaker 2: It is a moment of pure desperate absurdity.
19:50
Speaker 1: The officers walk her over to the transport vehicle. The
19:53
Speaker 1: officer actually notes on the audio, almost protectively, that it's
19:57
Speaker 1: a brand new cruiser. It only has 600 miles on it.
20:00
Speaker 2: Which is such a deeply human, bureaucratic detail in the
20:04
Speaker 2: middle of a homicide investigation. He just doesn't want his
20:06
Speaker 2: new car ruined.
20:07
Speaker 1: Right. But Nicole refuses to get in. She throws up
20:11
Speaker 1: every roadblock imaginable. She complains her toes hurt. She points
20:15
Speaker 1: under the car and claims the AC is leaking. She
20:17
Speaker 1: says she can't breathe. She says the molded plastic seats
20:20
Speaker 1: in the back are going to hurt her back.
20:22
Speaker 2: It is a classic delay tactic. Claustrophobia and panic set
20:26
Speaker 2: in when the abstract concept of being detained becomes the
20:30
Speaker 2: physical reality of being locked in a metal cage.
20:32
Speaker 1: The police need her in the car, obviously, but they
20:35
Speaker 1: don't want to use physical force if they don't have to.
20:38
Speaker 1: So they resort to a negotiation tactic that sounds like
20:40
Speaker 1: something you'd use on a toddler.
20:42
Speaker 2: They do.
20:42
Speaker 1: They bribe her. With a giant can of Diet Mountain Dew.
20:46
Speaker 2: Just so weird.
20:47
Speaker 1: The officer literally says to his partner, if I give
20:49
Speaker 1: her a Diet Mountain Dew, she'll sit in my car.
20:52
Speaker 1: He hands it to her and says, finish your drink
20:54
Speaker 1: and we gotta go.
20:55
Speaker 2: She accepts the term. She takes the can. She gets
20:57
Speaker 2: in the back of the cruiser. The door shuts. But
21:00
Speaker 2: she doesn't drink it.
21:01
Speaker 1: Right. With the interior camera rolling, Nicole pops the tab
21:05
Speaker 1: on this giant can of Diet Mountain Dew. raises it
21:09
Speaker 1: over her head, and proceeds to pour the entire thing
21:12
Speaker 1: all over her hair, her face, and her body.
21:15
Speaker 2: Incredible.
21:15
Speaker 1: The officers in the front are completely stunned. One of
21:18
Speaker 1: them yells back, are you freaking doing that stuff on purpose?
21:21
Speaker 2: And to understand the why here, we have to dig
21:23
Speaker 2: into the weirdest corner of true crime junk science.
21:26
Speaker 1: Right, because this wasn't a random act of madness, right?
21:30
Speaker 1: It was a calculated, albeit deeply misguided, forensic countermeasure based
21:35
Speaker 1: on an urban legend.
21:36
Speaker 2: So explain the legend. Where does this even come from? Well,
21:39
Speaker 2: in certain circles, especially among communities that have frequent adversarial
21:43
Speaker 2: interactions with the justice system, rumors spread about how to
21:46
Speaker 2: beat forensic science. Around this time, a rumor circulated partially
21:51
Speaker 2: fueled by misinterpreted high school chemistry and viral internet nonsense,
21:55
Speaker 2: that a specific chemical makeup, a sweetener in Mountain Dew,
21:59
Speaker 2: could degrade or dissolve human DNA.
22:01
Speaker 1: So she is sitting there, literally covered in Mike's blood,
22:04
Speaker 1: and she thinks the soda is going to act like
22:06
Speaker 1: an invisibility cloak against the crime lab.
22:08
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
22:09
Speaker 1: Let's break down the actual biology here. Does a carbonated
22:13
Speaker 1: diet soda do anything to DNA?
22:15
Speaker 2: Absolutely nothing. The source material is unequivocal. relying on forensic
22:19
Speaker 2: experts who shut this down instantly. Let's look at the mechanics.
22:23
Speaker 2: DNA is a highly stable molecule. The genetic information is
22:27
Speaker 2: protected by a strong sugar-phosphate backbone linked by phosphodiester bonds.
22:31
Speaker 2: It takes severe chemical interference like high-concentration bleach, intense UV radiation,
22:36
Speaker 2: or extreme prolonged heat to break those bonds.
22:39
Speaker 1: And diamantindu is what, citric acid and aspartame?
22:42
Speaker 2: Exactly. It's a weak acid, mostly water, artificial sweeteners, and carbonation.
22:47
Speaker 2: Pouring it over dried blood on skin or clothing might
22:51
Speaker 2: smear the evidence. It might make the swab sticky and
22:54
Speaker 2: annoying for the lab tech to process, but it is
22:57
Speaker 2: fundamentally incapable of denaturing the DNA molecule. The genetic profile
23:02
Speaker 2: of the victim would remain perfectly intact, just slightly citrus-scented.
23:06
Speaker 2: The science is complete junk.
23:08
Speaker 1: But, and this is where the legal reality splits from
23:11
Speaker 1: the scientific reality, it doesn't actually matter that the science
23:14
Speaker 1: is junk.
23:14
Speaker 2: Not at all. In the eyes of the law, the
23:16
Speaker 2: efficacy of the method is irrelevant. It is the intent
23:19
Speaker 2: behind the action that matters.
23:21
Speaker 1: Because at that exact moment in the squad car, the
23:23
Speaker 1: police couldn't arrest her for murder yet. They suspected it,
23:26
Speaker 1: but they didn't have the DNA match from the knife.
23:29
Speaker 1: But the second she poured that soda on herself to
23:31
Speaker 1: wash away evidence, she handed them a golden ticket.
23:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, she really did.
23:35
Speaker 1: They immediately charged her with tampering with physical evidence and
23:38
Speaker 1: resisting arrest without violence.
23:40
Speaker 2: It's a brilliant tactical pivot by the police. Those charges
23:44
Speaker 2: are undeniable. They are literally on video. It gives the
23:48
Speaker 2: police the legal authority to hold her in custody for
23:51
Speaker 2: days or weeks while the crime lab takes its time
23:53
Speaker 2: processing the real evidence from the bloody knife and the hammer.
23:57
Speaker 2: But the implications stretch far beyond the immediate arrest.
24:00
Speaker 1: I mean, imagine sitting on the jury for this case
24:03
Speaker 1: a year later. The prosecution puts that squad car video
24:06
Speaker 1: on the screen. The prosecutor says, look at this woman.
24:09
Speaker 1: She is a calculating criminal. She was aware of forensic science.
24:12
Speaker 1: She had researched methods to destroy genetic material. She manipulated
24:16
Speaker 1: the police into giving her the tools she needed, and
24:18
Speaker 1: she executed a deliberate cover-up.
24:21
Speaker 2: It paints a picture of a cold, rational mind trying
24:23
Speaker 2: to outsmart the system. But then imagine the defense attorney's rebuttal.
24:28
Speaker 2: Ladies and gentlemen, my client poured a sticky diet soda
24:31
Speaker 2: on her own head because the voices in her mind
24:34
Speaker 2: told her it would make her invisible. Does this look
24:36
Speaker 2: like a criminal mastermind? Or does this look like a desperate,
24:40
Speaker 2: fundamentally broken person acting on an absurd delusion because her
24:43
Speaker 2: grip on reality is non-existent?
24:45
Speaker 1: It is the ultimate Rorschach test for criminal intent. Does
24:49
Speaker 1: the physical act of attempting a cover-up prove you are sane,
24:52
Speaker 1: even if the method of your cover-up is inherently insane?
24:56
Speaker 2: That tension is the central paradox of this case. And
24:59
Speaker 2: that tension only escalates when the squad car finally arrives
25:02
Speaker 2: at the police station.
25:03
Speaker 1: Right, because her attempt to wash away the evidence fails.
25:06
Speaker 1: She is brought into the station, placed in a holding room,
25:09
Speaker 1: and she is left entirely alone.
25:11
Speaker 2: Which, again, is a standard, highly effective investigative tactic.
25:15
Speaker 1: To just leave them there.
25:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, the room is bugged, the cameras are rolling. You
25:19
Speaker 2: leave a suspect alone in a quiet room to see
25:21
Speaker 2: what their baseline behavior is when the performative pressure of
25:25
Speaker 2: an interrogator is removed. Do they put their head down
25:28
Speaker 2: and sleep? Do they pace anxiously?
25:31
Speaker 1: In Nicole's case, the isolation reveals the true depth of
25:33
Speaker 1: her psychosis. Left alone, she doesn't sit quietly. She begins
25:38
Speaker 1: having full animated conversations with unseen entities.
25:41
Speaker 2: And they're very specific conversations.
25:43
Speaker 1: Very. She complains to the empty room that she is
25:46
Speaker 1: only in custody because someone named Shiista was getting ready
25:49
Speaker 1: to kill her, burn her, and chop her up.
25:51
Speaker 2: It's a terrifying window into her internal reality. She is
25:55
Speaker 2: actively constructing a violent, paranoid delusion where she is the
25:59
Speaker 2: hunted victim of a phantom assassin. The auditory and visual
26:04
Speaker 2: hallucinations are entirely real to her in that room.
26:07
Speaker 1: She is yelling at the walls about the pain from
26:09
Speaker 1: her handcuffs, too. The chaos in her mind is literally
26:12
Speaker 1: spilling out into the physical space. And eventually, the door
26:16
Speaker 1: opens and a new investigator steps in. Enter Detective Dave. Right.
26:22
Speaker 2: Detective Dave recognizes that the aggressive, rapid-fire approach that Joey
26:26
Speaker 2: used on the street isn't going to work in this
26:28
Speaker 2: sterile room. He takes an entirely different tack.
26:31
Speaker 1: He plays the ultimate accommodating host. He walks in calm, polite.
26:36
Speaker 1: He actually brings her a cup of coffee.
26:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting.
26:38
Speaker 1: The transcript notes this specifically because in standard jail processing,
26:42
Speaker 1: giving a suspect a hot beverage is against the rules.
26:44
Speaker 2: Right, because it can be used as a weapon against
26:46
Speaker 2: the officers.
26:47
Speaker 1: Exactly. But Dave makes an exception. He gets her coffee.
26:50
Speaker 1: He gets her napkins. He is trying to create a civilized,
26:53
Speaker 1: comfortable oasis in the middle of her chaotic night.
26:56
Speaker 2: It's de-escalation. He knows she invoked her right to counsel
27:00
Speaker 2: on the street. He is hoping that a change of scenery,
27:04
Speaker 2: a new face, and a gesture of goodwill might reset
27:08
Speaker 2: the dynamic and get her to wave that right.
27:11
Speaker 1: But before he can ask her a single question about
27:13
Speaker 1: Mike or the fire, he has to navigate the most
27:16
Speaker 1: famous legal hurdle in American law enforcement, which is the
27:19
Speaker 1: Miranda warning.
27:21
Speaker 2: Everyone knows it from TV.
27:22
Speaker 1: Right. You have the right to remain silent. But watching
27:25
Speaker 1: Dave try to get Nicole to comprehend these rights is
27:28
Speaker 1: a surreal, frustrating masterclass in the limits of legal language.
27:32
Speaker 2: Because the reading of Miranda Rights is usually just a
27:35
Speaker 2: 30-second formality. But with a mind as fragmented as Nicole's,
27:39
Speaker 2: every single sentence hits an abstraction barrier.
27:42
Speaker 1: Dave starts with the classic line, you know, You have
27:44
Speaker 1: the right to remain silent, and anything you say can
27:46
Speaker 1: be used as evidence against you. Nicole stops him immediately.
27:50
Speaker 1: She takes the statement entirely literally. She looks at him
27:53
Speaker 1: and says, I'm not going to agree with that because
27:54
Speaker 1: I don't know what evidence is being used against me.
27:56
Speaker 2: She fundamentally lacks the abstract reasoning required to project into
28:00
Speaker 2: the future. She doesn't understand that evidence in this specific
28:04
Speaker 2: context refers to the words she might speak in the
28:07
Speaker 2: next hour. She believes he is asking her to sign
28:11
Speaker 2: off on physical evidence like the knife or the hammer.
28:14
Speaker 2: which she claims to know nothing about.
28:16
Speaker 1: It's like asking someone to agree to the terms of
28:18
Speaker 1: service for a software they haven't downloaded yet, and they
28:21
Speaker 1: refuse because they haven't seen the code.
28:23
Speaker 2: Good analogy.
28:24
Speaker 1: So Dave tries to adapt. He realizes the legal jargon
28:27
Speaker 1: isn't working, so he tries analogies. He says, say right now,
28:31
Speaker 1: if you were to tell me that you killed JFK,
28:33
Speaker 1: that could be used.
28:34
Speaker 2: An extreme hypothetical to prove a point.
28:36
Speaker 1: But Nicole just stares at him and dismisses it, saying
28:39
Speaker 1: she would never say anything like that. She misses the
28:41
Speaker 1: point entirely. So Dave dials the analogy down to something
28:45
Speaker 1: way more mundane. He says, or if you said you
28:48
Speaker 1: stole a candy bar from Wawa.
28:50
Speaker 2: And her response to the candy bar analogy is the
28:52
Speaker 2: most revealing moment of the entire interrogation.
28:55
Speaker 1: She looks at him and says, I'm not a crazy person,
28:58
Speaker 1: so I don't see that happening.
28:59
Speaker 2: The irony is breathtaking.
29:00
Speaker 1: It is staggering. I mean, she is sitting in an
29:03
Speaker 1: interrogation room, her clothes soaked in Diet Mountain Dew, having
29:07
Speaker 1: just been talking to an invisible demon named Shiista. accused
29:10
Speaker 1: of happening a 79 year old man to death and
29:13
Speaker 1: setting his house on fire. But she draws the line
29:16
Speaker 1: of crazy at stealing a candy bar from a convenience store.
29:19
Speaker 2: It demonstrates a complete fundamental disconnect from the gravity of
29:23
Speaker 2: her reality. Her internal moral compass and logical framework are
29:28
Speaker 2: entirely scrambled.
29:29
Speaker 1: So what does this all mean? The law requires that
29:32
Speaker 1: a waiver of Miranda rights must be knowing, intelligent and voluntary.
29:36
Speaker 2: Right.
29:37
Speaker 1: If she thinks the concept of evidence is equivalent to
29:39
Speaker 1: a stolen Wawa candy bar, is she truly capable of
29:42
Speaker 1: making an intelligent waiver of her constitutional rights?
29:45
Speaker 2: This raises an important question, and it's a debate that
29:48
Speaker 2: haunts legal scholars and ethicists. How do you apply a rigid,
29:52
Speaker 2: logic-based legal framework to a mind that is fundamentally detached
29:56
Speaker 2: from logic?
29:57
Speaker 1: You really can't, can you?
29:58
Speaker 2: It's very difficult. Police are trained to navigate this gray area, though.
30:03
Speaker 2: They are allowed to explain why someone is being detained,
30:06
Speaker 2: hoping the shock of the reality will clarify the situation
30:09
Speaker 2: and prompt a waiver.
30:11
Speaker 1: So Dave finally drops the bomb. He stops at the
30:13
Speaker 1: analogies and tells her point blank. The gentleman you live with, Michael,
30:17
Speaker 1: he was murdered.
30:19
Speaker 2: He's hoping for a reaction. A denial, a tear, a
30:22
Speaker 2: slip of the tongue.
30:23
Speaker 1: But Nicole holds firm. Her delusions about Shiista and the
30:26
Speaker 1: candy bars might be swirling, but her primal self-preservation instinct
30:31
Speaker 1: regarding the police remains incredibly intact. She repeatedly states that
30:36
Speaker 1: she doesn't want to talk, she doesn't understand what's going on,
30:39
Speaker 1: and she explicitly demands an attorney.
30:41
Speaker 2: Which is the ultimate conversational kill switch. She successfully shuts
30:45
Speaker 2: down the interrogation.
30:46
Speaker 1: She drinks the last of the coffee Dave brought her
30:48
Speaker 1: and it's over. She is booked into the jail solely
30:51
Speaker 1: on the charges of evidence tampering and resisting arrest. The
30:54
Speaker 1: murder charge basically hangs in the air waiting for the
30:57
Speaker 1: forensic science to catch up with the street reality.
31:00
Speaker 2: And that transition moves us away from the chaotic minute-by-minute
31:04
Speaker 2: timeline of the night and into the long, complex, and
31:07
Speaker 2: grinding machinery of the legal aftermath.
31:10
Speaker 1: Nicole was held on those lesser charges for over a week.
31:13
Speaker 1: It wasn't until July 28th that the crime lab returned
31:16
Speaker 1: the definitive results. The DNA pulled from the handle of
31:20
Speaker 1: the bloody steak knife found in Mike's bedroom was an
31:23
Speaker 1: official match to Nicole's. She was the one holding the weapon.
31:27
Speaker 2: And on August 5th, they officially charged her with murder.
31:30
Speaker 2: And interestingly, the source notes that between the initial incident
31:34
Speaker 2: and her official arrest for murder, she had dyed her
31:36
Speaker 2: hair dark.
31:37
Speaker 1: Wait, really? While in custody or out on bail?
31:40
Speaker 2: It appears she attempted to alter her appearance while out,
31:43
Speaker 2: which the prosecution immediately flags as yet another conscious attempt
31:46
Speaker 2: to evade law enforcement. More consciousness of guilt.
31:50
Speaker 1: But before we get deep into the legal gridlock of
31:52
Speaker 1: her defense, we need to pause. We have spent an
31:54
Speaker 1: hour dissecting Nicole's chaotic mind, but we need to center
31:58
Speaker 1: the victim here. Who was Mike Sarasoli?
32:01
Speaker 2: It is vital to remember that he wasn't just a
32:03
Speaker 2: prop in a true crime story. He was a 79-year-old
32:07
Speaker 2: human being who met an unimaginably brutal end.
32:11
Speaker 1: The details about Mike are just heartbreaking. He was an
32:14
Speaker 1: Army veteran. A neighbor named Melam Farhad told reporters that
32:18
Speaker 1: Mike had served in Desert Storm. He was a contractor
32:21
Speaker 1: by trade. But he had also experienced severe hardship. Mike
32:25
Speaker 1: knew what it meant to struggle, having experienced homelessness himself
32:28
Speaker 1: at times in his life. Right.
32:29
Speaker 2: A friend had helped him secure the house on the
32:31
Speaker 2: corner where he eventually lived and where he died. He
32:34
Speaker 2: finally had stability.
32:36
Speaker 1: Neighbors described him as incredibly quiet and generous. They said,
32:39
Speaker 1: sometimes he sits on the porch, just sit down, relax,
32:42
Speaker 1: and that's it. And his landlord confirmed to the police
32:45
Speaker 1: that Mike's relationship with Nicole was strictly platonic. He knew
32:49
Speaker 1: she was struggling, he knew she was homeless, and he
32:51
Speaker 1: was just providing a place for her to stay. She
32:54
Speaker 1: was just his tenant.
32:55
Speaker 2: He offered shelter to a woman who had nowhere else
32:57
Speaker 2: to go, and that generosity placed him directly in the
33:00
Speaker 2: path of her lethal psychosis.
33:02
Speaker 1: So the case goes to the courts and immediately hits
33:05
Speaker 1: a massive wall. Nicole's defense team looks at the body
33:09
Speaker 1: cam footage, they look at her psychiatric history, the self-harm,
33:14
Speaker 1: the hallucinations, and they argue she is not mentally competent
33:17
Speaker 1: to aid in her own defense.
33:18
Speaker 2: And we should clarify the legal mechanics here. Competency to
33:21
Speaker 2: stand trial is entirely different from an insanity plea.
33:25
Speaker 1: How so?
33:25
Speaker 2: An insanity plea looks backward at the night of the crime, asking,
33:29
Speaker 2: did she know right from wrong at the time of
33:31
Speaker 2: the murder? Competency looks at the present moment, asking, right now, today,
33:36
Speaker 2: does the defendant understand the charges against them? And can
33:39
Speaker 2: they meaningfully assist their lawyer in preparing a defense?
33:42
Speaker 1: And if the answer is no, the gears of justice
33:44
Speaker 1: stop entirely.
33:45
Speaker 2: Exactly. You cannot try someone who doesn't understand the trial.
33:48
Speaker 1: And for Nicole, this process takes years. The murder happened
33:52
Speaker 1: in the summer, and it isn't until December of 2023
33:55
Speaker 1: years later that she is finally found mentally competent to
33:58
Speaker 1: stand trial. She undergoes extensive psychiatric treatment, likely heavy medication,
34:04
Speaker 1: to stabilize her mind just enough to sit in a
34:06
Speaker 1: courtroom and comprehend the proceedings.
34:08
Speaker 2: And once she is deemed competent, the defense prepares to
34:11
Speaker 2: explain the why. How did this happen?
34:14
Speaker 1: The expert testimony from the defense psychiatrist is harrowing. It
34:19
Speaker 1: traces the etiology of her delusions. The psychiatrist details that
34:22
Speaker 1: Nicole had been subjected to horrific, unthinkable abuse by almost
34:26
Speaker 1: every single male she had encountered since she was a teenager.
34:29
Speaker 2: A lifetime of severe, compounding trauma fundamentally rewires the brain's
34:35
Speaker 2: threat detection system. The amygdala becomes hyperreactive. The brain starts
34:39
Speaker 2: perceiving lethal threats where none exist.
34:42
Speaker 1: On the night of the murder, she was entirely off
34:44
Speaker 1: her medication. Her mind, already fragile, snapped into a severe
34:48
Speaker 1: paranoid delusion. The psychiatrist testified that she genuinely believed Mike,
34:53
Speaker 1: the quiet 79-year-old veteran who gave her a room, was
34:56
Speaker 1: drugging her with chloroform and hurting her at night while
34:59
Speaker 1: she slept.
34:59
Speaker 2: And the delusion was incredibly specific, too. She believed he
35:03
Speaker 2: wasn't doing this alone, but was acting on the orders
35:05
Speaker 2: of a local outlaw motorcycle gang.
35:07
Speaker 1: Which, amazingly, neighbors had confirmed to the police that Nicole
35:10
Speaker 1: actually did have peripheral ties to in her past.
35:13
Speaker 2: That is the hallmark of a complex delusion. The brain
35:17
Speaker 2: takes a fragment of actual reality, a past association with
35:20
Speaker 2: a biker gang, and weaves it into a terrifying, immediate,
35:25
Speaker 2: encompassing conspiracy. The voices in her head, the ones she
35:29
Speaker 2: told Officer Joey about on the street, were explicitly telling
35:32
Speaker 2: her that Mike was going to kill her and that
35:34
Speaker 2: she had to kill him first to escape.
35:36
Speaker 1: This is where I think the body cam footage is
35:38
Speaker 1: so crucial, because it's easy for the public to hear
35:41
Speaker 1: a defense team claim in court the voices told her
35:44
Speaker 1: to do it and just dismiss it as a convenient,
35:46
Speaker 1: made-up excuse to avoid prison.
35:48
Speaker 2: Right. People get cynical about that.
35:50
Speaker 1: But when you look at the tape, the self-harm scars
35:53
Speaker 1: she openly showed the cop, the panic attack at the
35:55
Speaker 1: hospital hours before, her yelling at the invisible sheista in
35:59
Speaker 1: the empty interrogation room, the groundwork for this exact specific psychosis,
36:03
Speaker 1: was documented on tape by the police hours after the murder.
36:07
Speaker 1: It wasn't invented by a slick defense attorney years later.
36:10
Speaker 1: It was her absolute lived reality that night.
36:12
Speaker 2: That is the profound tragedy of this case. The threat
36:15
Speaker 2: she perceived was entirely fabricated by her illness, but her
36:18
Speaker 2: terror was 100% real. She reacted with lethal force against
36:22
Speaker 2: a phantom threat, and a real, innocent man lost his
36:26
Speaker 2: life because of it.
36:27
Speaker 1: So how does a judge balance that scale? How do
36:29
Speaker 1: you weigh the brutal murder of a generous veteran... against
36:33
Speaker 1: a mind completely shattered by lifelong abuse and documented severe psychosis.
36:37
Speaker 2: The resolution avoids a jury trial altogether. Nicole accepts a
36:41
Speaker 2: plea deal. She pleads no contest to second-degree murder, arson
36:44
Speaker 2: of a dwelling, evidence tampering, and resisting with violence.
36:48
Speaker 1: And the judge's sentencing reflects that agonizing, nearly impossible balance.
36:52
Speaker 1: She receives 35 years in prison. But here is the
36:55
Speaker 1: critical part to understand about the legal mechanics. 35 years
36:58
Speaker 1: was the absolute minimum sentence possible under the strict legal
37:02
Speaker 1: guidelines for those combined charges. The judge could not legally
37:05
Speaker 1: give her less.
37:06
Speaker 2: The judge explicitly acknowledged the nuance in the tragedy on
37:09
Speaker 2: the record. The judge stated that in the strict legal
37:12
Speaker 2: sense of mens rea, Nicole knew what she was doing.
37:15
Speaker 2: She knew how to swing a hammer. She knew she
37:17
Speaker 2: was setting a fire to cover it up.
37:19
Speaker 1: Right.
37:20
Speaker 2: But the judge also explicitly stated, but for her mental health,
37:23
Speaker 2: this would not have happened.
37:25
Speaker 1: The court acknowledged her horrendous upbringing, the abuse she suffered,
37:28
Speaker 1: the systemic failures that left her homeless and unmedicated. The
37:33
Speaker 1: system recognized that society failed her long before she failed society,
37:37
Speaker 1: even as it locked her away for the next three
37:39
Speaker 1: and a half decades. She was credited with 562 days
37:43
Speaker 1: of time already served, but she will likely spend the
37:45
Speaker 1: vast majority, if not the entirety, of the rest of
37:48
Speaker 1: her life in a prison cell.
37:50
Speaker 2: It is a profoundly somber conclusion. The justice system requires
37:54
Speaker 2: accountability for the loss of Michael Sarasoli, and it extracted it.
37:58
Speaker 2: But it also, in its own rigid bureaucratic way, attempted
38:02
Speaker 2: to acknowledge the brokenness of the perpetrator.
38:04
Speaker 1: It is a case where there is no victory, only
38:07
Speaker 1: varying degrees of loss. We examined a tragedy where a horrific,
38:11
Speaker 1: violent act collided with bizarre internet forensic rumors, resulting in
38:15
Speaker 1: the loss of a kind man who had simply opened
38:17
Speaker 1: his home to someone struggling. We saw the mechanics of
38:21
Speaker 1: how police use cognitive overload to trap a suspect's working
38:23
Speaker 1: memory in lies. And we saw how our justice system
38:27
Speaker 1: agonizes over processing defendants whose minds have been entirely shattered.
38:31
Speaker 2: It forces us to look incredibly closely at the fragile,
38:34
Speaker 2: permeable line between criminal culpability and severe mental illness.
38:38
Speaker 1: And that brings me to a final thought I want
38:40
Speaker 1: to leave you with. Think about the Mountain Dew. Think
38:42
Speaker 1: about that image of Nicole pouring a giant can of
38:45
Speaker 1: diet soda over her head in the back of that
38:47
Speaker 1: pristine police cruiser.
38:48
Speaker 2: It's hard to forget.
38:49
Speaker 1: On one hand, that single sticky act was used by
38:53
Speaker 1: the legal system as definitive proof of intent. It was
38:56
Speaker 1: the linchpin used to prove she possessed the presence of
38:59
Speaker 1: mind to try and cover up a crime, proving she
39:02
Speaker 1: knew right from wrong. But on the other hand, genuinely
39:05
Speaker 1: believing that a can of diet citrus soda is going
39:08
Speaker 1: to magically dissolve your DNA on a molecular level is
39:11
Speaker 1: deeply fundamentally irrational.
39:13
Speaker 2: Completely illogical.
39:14
Speaker 1: It leaves us with a haunting question about the mechanics
39:17
Speaker 1: of our justice system. When a person's actions are driven
39:20
Speaker 1: by sheer documented delusion, where exactly do we draw the
39:24
Speaker 1: line between a calculated criminal cover-up and the desperate, illogical
39:29
Speaker 1: flailing of a mind? that is entirely detached from reality?
39:32
Speaker 2: It's a question without an easy answer and one the
39:34
Speaker 2: courts will struggle with forever.
39:36
Speaker 1: And it's one we'll have to keep asking. Thank you
39:37
Speaker 1: for joining us on this deep dive.