Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre

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Friendly fishing trip turns bloody massacre · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. How does a fishing trip
0:16
Speaker 1: between three buddies end up in a bloody massacre, and
0:23
Speaker 1: not only that in an area with virtually zero crime rate?
0:35
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. I'm Nancy Grace. This is
0:45
Speaker 1: Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here at
0:48
Speaker 1: Fox Nation and Sirius XM one eleven take a listen
0:52
Speaker 1: to this. The parents of twenty seven year old Brandon Rollins,
0:55
Speaker 1: who was shot and left bloodied in the roadway in
0:59
Speaker 1: Polk County over the weekend. His father recalling his final
1:03
Speaker 1: moments because he got the phone call from his son
1:07
Speaker 1: not long after he was shot. Cyril Rawlins says the
1:11
Speaker 1: moment he realized his son was calling, he knew it
1:14
Speaker 1: was bad news. He don't never call my phone at
1:17
Speaker 1: all unless he have trouble or something would be going down.
1:21
Speaker 1: When he answered, his fears were realized. He said, help Daddy,
1:26
Speaker 1: Help Daddy. Cyril knew his twenty seven year old son,
1:29
Speaker 1: Brandon Rawlins, was out fishing on Lake Streety with two friends,
1:32
Speaker 1: twenty three year old Damian Tillman in thirty year old
1:35
Speaker 1: Kevin Springfield. He rushed to the scene where he found
1:38
Speaker 1: his son shot and bloodied in the roadway. Well, when
1:42
Speaker 1: I got there, I didn't have phone at all. I
1:45
Speaker 1: didn't know what to do. He was talking and all that.
1:51
Speaker 1: As a son, I got to leave you. I gotta
1:52
Speaker 1: go get some help. He was pretty bad. He was
1:56
Speaker 1: too bloody. Can you imagine a mother or a father's
2:00
Speaker 1: nightmare finding your son beaten, bloody, dying and you have
2:07
Speaker 1: to leave to go call for help. Dies. In the introim,
2:12
Speaker 1: that is part of the nightmare the parents of these
2:15
Speaker 1: three young men are going through. Who go out on
2:18
Speaker 1: an innocent fishing trip and end up dead. Our question
2:23
Speaker 1: is why with me an all star panel to break
2:26
Speaker 1: it down and put it back together again. Renowned attorney
2:30
Speaker 1: Laura Euretzian joining us from LA. High profile criminal defense attorney,
2:35
Speaker 1: New York Psychologists joining us Karen Start. You can find
2:39
Speaker 1: her at Karen Starting dot com. Karen Smith joining us
2:43
Speaker 1: from LA. Forensics expert and the star of any podcast
2:47
Speaker 1: Shattered Souls, the medical examiner for the entire state of Florida,
2:51
Speaker 1: doctor Tim Gallagher. But first to Ray Caputo, lead news
2:56
Speaker 1: anchor for w DBO, joining us out of Florida. Ray Kaputo,
3:01
Speaker 1: The first thing I want to figure out and establish
3:05
Speaker 1: is where is frost Proof Florida. Well, it's in Polk County.
3:11
Speaker 1: It's about an hour and a half south of Orlando.
3:13
Speaker 1: And if you look at it on a map, it's
3:15
Speaker 1: this neat little place. It's this town that it sits
3:19
Speaker 1: on a narrow strip of land between two lakes. It
3:21
Speaker 1: doesn't have a lot of residents. Everybody seems to know
3:24
Speaker 1: each other. The anti playbooking flag is flying out in
3:26
Speaker 1: front just a very idealistic place. Well, I don't know
3:29
Speaker 1: what you mean by that, because I got an American
3:32
Speaker 1: flag out in front of my house as well. Hold on,
3:35
Speaker 1: Ray Kaputo, while I respect your journalistic integrity, joining me
3:39
Speaker 1: right now is an expert on where is frost Proof
3:43
Speaker 1: Florida and what it's all about. They elected sheriff Schriff
3:46
Speaker 1: Grady Judd now joining me from Polk County, Florida. Sheriff,
3:50
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. We were just kicking
3:53
Speaker 1: round for everybody across the country listening right now that
3:56
Speaker 1: may not have heard a frost Proof Florida. Tell me
3:59
Speaker 1: about it, Nancy. It's God's country. It's at the south
4:03
Speaker 1: end of our county, which is two thousand square miles
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Speaker 1: our county is that is, we have over seven hundred
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Speaker 1: thousand people in the county, but Frostproof is at the
4:11
Speaker 1: far south end. And when you think about it, you
4:15
Speaker 1: think about the idealistic place you'd like to live, like
4:18
Speaker 1: the Mayberry. Well, Frostproof is Maybury. Everybody, Ray said, everybody
4:23
Speaker 1: knows everybody. So it was a total shot to the
4:28
Speaker 1: community when this horrific deed occurred, because there's nothing but
4:32
Speaker 1: good people, orange groves, cow pastures and small business. You know,
4:39
Speaker 1: Sheriff Grady jud You're reminded me so much of where
4:42
Speaker 1: I grew up, not really even in a city, unincorporated
4:47
Speaker 1: bib County in the middle literally the geographic middle of Georgia,
4:52
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure my parents wouldn't even lock the
4:57
Speaker 1: doors at night. We had four neighbors in total, and
5:02
Speaker 1: that was a place in a time where after school
5:05
Speaker 1: I could ride my bike until my mom or dad
5:09
Speaker 1: would blow the car horn in the distance right here
5:11
Speaker 1: the chimes and the church steeple, and that's what I
5:16
Speaker 1: would know it was time to go home because it
5:19
Speaker 1: was safe. There was no crime in that area. Basically
5:23
Speaker 1: out in the middle of nowhere some people would put it.
5:25
Speaker 1: But as you put it God's country, you know, Sheriff
5:28
Speaker 1: Grady Judd. A lot of questions have been asked about
5:31
Speaker 1: these three young men, Damien Tilman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins,
5:37
Speaker 1: who went out fishing at night? Now is that common
5:42
Speaker 1: in the Frostproof, Florida area. There's nothing more wholesome than
5:47
Speaker 1: three best friends fishing on Friday night near Frostproof, Florida.
5:53
Speaker 1: And it's called night fishing. They were catfishing, that's what
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Speaker 1: they were doing, and it's a favorite place that they
5:59
Speaker 1: go often. Well, you know, Sheriff, there's nothing better than
6:02
Speaker 1: a fried catfish unless you want to go with a
6:04
Speaker 1: fried mullet. You ever have that? I have, But I'd
6:07
Speaker 1: rather have smoked mullet and fried catfish. Now, I don't
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Speaker 1: know why I'm talking about fishing. Yes, I do know why, because,
6:16
Speaker 1: as you said, what's more wholesome than that. They're not
6:18
Speaker 1: out clubbing where everybody's drunk and doing a line of cocaine,
6:24
Speaker 1: getting in fights. They're not there. They're not out at
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Speaker 1: three am driving drunk. The three of them have been
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Speaker 1: friends for a long time and have gone night fishing,
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Speaker 1: and then somehow everything goes sideways and it turns literally
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Speaker 1: into a blood bath. Now a moment ago, you heard
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Speaker 1: our friend at Fox thirteen, Jennifer Holton. Now take a
6:49
Speaker 1: listen again to Fox thirteen. Cyril hopped back into his car,
6:54
Speaker 1: driving to a convenience store to call nine one one
6:57
Speaker 1: and then rush back to the scene. He says that
7:00
Speaker 1: when he heard his son's phone ringing inside of his truck,
7:03
Speaker 1: the sea we could it was covered on blood and
7:06
Speaker 1: I got the phone and it was his mom. I said, please, daddy,
7:15
Speaker 1: sound is gone. But all three men were dead before
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Speaker 1: EMS arrived. We still don't have arrest at this moment,
7:24
Speaker 1: Sheriff Judd saying Monday, investigators have received well over a
7:28
Speaker 1: hundred tips, but they're hoping now that an increased reward
7:31
Speaker 1: makes a difference. There's a reward of thirty thousand dollars
7:38
Speaker 1: at this moment in time, just for information that leads
7:43
Speaker 1: to the arrest of these horrific criminals, and arrest that
7:47
Speaker 1: Cyril says could bring justice for his family. That was
7:51
Speaker 1: my only son. I'll never have a grand another grandchild. Nothing,
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Speaker 1: my lfe is gone. Oh my stars. Karen Stark psychologists
8:02
Speaker 1: joining us from New York. When I heard the father
8:07
Speaker 1: speaking you knew my dad very well, Karen, from all
8:11
Speaker 1: the times we all visited together in New York. Something
8:16
Speaker 1: about his voice reminded me so much of my dad.
8:20
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine losing your child and being there
8:27
Speaker 1: trying to save your child, having to leave your child
8:30
Speaker 1: to go call for help, and calling your wife and
8:35
Speaker 1: saying our son is dying. I don't know how a
8:38
Speaker 1: parent would ever get over that. Well, Nancy, who won't
8:42
Speaker 1: get over that? I mean, just as we listen to
8:45
Speaker 1: it and you're hearing it, it's just so it's tragic,
8:49
Speaker 1: it really is, and that and you hear I mean,
8:53
Speaker 1: it's so clear that this was an untenable situation, that
8:58
Speaker 1: terrible Karen Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are
9:14
Speaker 1: talking about three young guys, great guys, three best friends.
9:20
Speaker 1: Think of your child and they're they're two best friends.
9:23
Speaker 1: I can name mine right now. I have to drag
9:27
Speaker 1: John David off of the computer at night where he
9:30
Speaker 1: and his two favorite little buddies are playing games online.
9:34
Speaker 1: They swim together, they fish together, they go bicycling together,
9:39
Speaker 1: they do everything together. Same with my daughter Lucy. She's
9:42
Speaker 1: got two little besties. And to think these guys grow up,
9:47
Speaker 1: they go fishing, and they all three end up dead.
9:52
Speaker 1: At what this father has got to live through. Take
9:56
Speaker 1: a listen to our friend, Sheriff Grady speaking. His father,
10:02
Speaker 1: who was home in bed asleep, heard the call from
10:05
Speaker 1: his son, knew where they were fishing, jumped up, got dressed,
10:10
Speaker 1: drove here immediately. He's about ten minutes away in the
10:13
Speaker 1: frost Proof community. When he arrived, he saw this horrific
10:19
Speaker 1: scene of where all these young men had been shot up.
10:24
Speaker 1: In Brandon's father's excitement to run to and help his son,
10:30
Speaker 1: he forgot his cell phone at home, So now he's
10:34
Speaker 1: out in the middle as you can see, of no
10:37
Speaker 1: place without any communications. So he hopped back in his
10:43
Speaker 1: vehicle and went to Sunray, which is on Highway twenty seven.
10:48
Speaker 1: Ran into the convenience store. They all know each other
10:51
Speaker 1: in this area. My son needs help. Seventeen year old
10:57
Speaker 1: young lady who is the daughter of the convenience store
11:01
Speaker 1: attendant at that time, jumps in the vehicle with Brandon's
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Speaker 1: father and they come back to the scene. You know,
11:08
Speaker 1: I want to go to you share of grad Eja,
11:09
Speaker 1: but I kind of ask Karen, start another question, Karen,
11:13
Speaker 1: what is it about? That fact that he gets all
11:17
Speaker 1: the way there and he's forgotten his cell phone. That's
11:19
Speaker 1: like a knife in my heart. It reminds me my uncle,
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Speaker 1: my mother's only sibling, had a heart attack early fifties
11:29
Speaker 1: and his wife, my aunt Shirley, was trying to race
11:32
Speaker 1: to the scene and her car broke down. She could
11:37
Speaker 1: not get the thing to start. She didn't get there
11:40
Speaker 1: in time to see my uncle. Just some twists, some
11:45
Speaker 1: odd twist of fate that makes a tragedy even more poignant.
11:51
Speaker 1: What is that There's got to be something in your
11:54
Speaker 1: psychological repertoire that will explain why that's just like a
11:57
Speaker 1: twist of the knife. Yeah, I'm thinking, Nancy, that it's
12:02
Speaker 1: like post traumatic stress because he will always relive that
12:08
Speaker 1: and think about the fact that what would have happened
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Speaker 1: if he had had his phone, if someone had been
12:14
Speaker 1: able to get there in time, and that I mean,
12:17
Speaker 1: there's a natural tendency when someone dies. I think everyone
12:21
Speaker 1: can relate to this where you start to think if
12:25
Speaker 1: I had done this, if I had done that, And
12:27
Speaker 1: of course you couldn't, but you start to think about that.
12:30
Speaker 1: But here's a real life situation where he's going to
12:35
Speaker 1: wonder if I had had my phone, would I have
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Speaker 1: saved my son? Guys, three best friends go night fishing
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Speaker 1: and all end up dead. To Sheriff Grady Judd, special
12:47
Speaker 1: guests joining us from Polk County, Florida, Sheriff Judd again,
12:51
Speaker 1: thank you for being with us in the midst of
12:53
Speaker 1: this investigation, taking time to be with us. We really
12:56
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So, Sheriff jud You're saying, this is kind
12:59
Speaker 1: of out in the middle of nowhere, and I mean
13:01
Speaker 1: that in a good way because that's the way I
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Speaker 1: grew up. So I'm trying to figure out the dad
13:09
Speaker 1: gets out there and what is it that he sees?
13:12
Speaker 1: What does he find out? And he was woken up
13:15
Speaker 1: in bed correct as his son calls him. Absolutely, his
13:19
Speaker 1: son called him, we think before the shooting occurred, and
13:24
Speaker 1: all his dad heard his help. So when his dad
13:28
Speaker 1: rushed to the scene because he knew where the lake
13:31
Speaker 1: was and where they normally fished. When he got there,
13:33
Speaker 1: the first thing he saw was his son on the
13:38
Speaker 1: ground shot and dying, and one of his buddies that
13:44
Speaker 1: was in the truck with him laying on the ground
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Speaker 1: on the other side with his feet propped up in
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Speaker 1: the truck dying and the third one that was shot, Damien.
13:54
Speaker 1: They threw him up into the bed of the truck
13:58
Speaker 1: for what reason we don't know. So he drives up
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Speaker 1: and he sees his son and two best friends in
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Speaker 1: life all shot down, massacred, shot multiple times. It was
14:11
Speaker 1: absolutely horrible. Guys were talking about the unusual and bizarre
14:17
Speaker 1: deaths of three best friends two Doctor Tim Gallagher, a
14:23
Speaker 1: medical examiner, State of Florida. I'm thinking about this dad
14:28
Speaker 1: and what he's going to go through the rest of
14:30
Speaker 1: his life based on the injuries his son suffered. Do
14:38
Speaker 1: you think if the dad had called fifteen minutes earlier,
14:42
Speaker 1: twenty minutes earlier for an ambulance, could he have been
14:46
Speaker 1: saved or was there no chance? Well, it's difficult to say, Nancy.
14:51
Speaker 1: It would depend on the extent of his wounds and
14:53
Speaker 1: the amount of times that he was shot. Of course,
14:59
Speaker 1: when the dad arrived, the sun was barely alive, you know,
15:03
Speaker 1: And as the sheriff stated, this is God's country and
15:07
Speaker 1: typically ambulances aren't immediately available in that area. So the
15:13
Speaker 1: time that ambulance would take to travel there and to
15:17
Speaker 1: stabilize him and to bring him to the hospital, most
15:21
Speaker 1: likely he would not have survived his injuries, and Sheriff
15:24
Speaker 1: d that's no offense to the local amts. There's just
15:28
Speaker 1: a lot of ground to cover and a sparsely populated area.
15:33
Speaker 1: I've only had the opportunity to be in a ambulance
15:39
Speaker 1: one time in Florida, and I went into early labor
15:45
Speaker 1: and I was way off on Saint George's Island and
15:50
Speaker 1: an EMT had to come all the way from Tallahassee.
15:54
Speaker 1: It took a long time to get there. But when
15:56
Speaker 1: he got there, he was a one eyed ambulance driver
15:59
Speaker 1: named Elvis. I'll never forget him, and thanks to him,
16:03
Speaker 1: the twins didn't come early and it saved their lives.
16:06
Speaker 1: So when we're saying it may have taken a while
16:09
Speaker 1: for the ambulance to get there, what were the injuries
16:14
Speaker 1: to Brandon Rawlin's Sheriff Judd, how many times had he
16:17
Speaker 1: been shot? Well, first and foremost. You know, you don't
16:22
Speaker 1: station ambulances out in the middle of the woods because
16:24
Speaker 1: there's no one there to service, so there's drive time.
16:27
Speaker 1: But when they arrived, Brandon had multiple gunshot wounds. And
16:33
Speaker 1: the doctor is exactly correct. I truly and I've done
16:38
Speaker 1: this forty eight years with a sheriff's office, and as
16:42
Speaker 1: a kid I worked on the ambulance. I truly believe
16:45
Speaker 1: had he sustained those injuries in the emergency room lobby,
16:51
Speaker 1: he still wouldn't survived the injuries. How he survived them
16:55
Speaker 1: long enough to have final words with his father is
16:58
Speaker 1: just miraculous to me. Guys, what makes this so bizarre
17:03
Speaker 1: is we are now learning a chance encounter at a
17:07
Speaker 1: local Dollar General may have set in action a course
17:13
Speaker 1: of events that ended into three murders of three young guys.
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Speaker 1: A chance encounter. Joining me, Raykaputo, doctor Gallagher, or Karen Smith,
17:25
Speaker 1: Karen Stark and La Euretsin from LA along with Sheriff
17:29
Speaker 1: Grady Judd. You know, Laura urets In, high profile criminal
17:33
Speaker 1: defense attorney in LA. Have you noticed, as I did
17:37
Speaker 1: when I was prosecuting and even now covering so many felonies,
17:42
Speaker 1: the smallest thing can tip off a series of events
17:47
Speaker 1: like dominos that you never put together. And here apparently
17:54
Speaker 1: a chance encounter at a Dollar General ended up in
17:58
Speaker 1: three murders. It's not that uncommon, Laura, exactly. I mean,
18:02
Speaker 1: we see that every day, not every single crime that
18:06
Speaker 1: happens is necessarily planned out to happen at a particular time.
18:12
Speaker 1: Specific incidents can trigger someone who's already volatile, who's got
18:16
Speaker 1: anger issued, or who's got a long rap sheet to
18:23
Speaker 1: explode and do something as horrific as we have now
18:27
Speaker 1: in frostpoof Florida Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What happened
18:46
Speaker 1: to these three innocent and unarmed guys. They're out fishing,
18:51
Speaker 1: next thing you know, they are dead, massacred. Take a
18:55
Speaker 1: listen to Sheriff Grady Judd, Polk County, Florida. What opened
19:00
Speaker 1: sheriff in that Dollar General? It was exceptionally bizarre. We
19:07
Speaker 1: went back to the Dollar General because we found a
19:09
Speaker 1: bag in Damien's vehicle where he'd shopped. We pulled the
19:15
Speaker 1: tape and Damien was standing in line to check out.
19:19
Speaker 1: Directly behind him as a guy that we'd learned that
19:22
Speaker 1: later is Tony Wiggins. Behind him is a guy called
19:26
Speaker 1: Robert Wiggins. They're brothers. Damien is actually having what appears
19:32
Speaker 1: to be an absolutely total civil conversation with Tony, who
19:37
Speaker 1: we know as TJ. Now keep in mind this small community,
19:40
Speaker 1: they know each other, they're all the same age, right,
19:44
Speaker 1: elementary school together. Civil conversation, no argument, nothing, as a
19:51
Speaker 1: matter of fact. That's backed up by w FLA news
19:53
Speaker 1: reporter Stacy da Silva. Listen, Sheriff, everybody wanted to know
19:58
Speaker 1: was this random or with these men targeted? The sheriff
20:01
Speaker 1: said today that a chance encounter at a Frostproof Dollar
20:05
Speaker 1: General led to a massacre. Three people are now in custody.
20:10
Speaker 1: They have solved the case. Sheriff Grady Judd offering answers
20:14
Speaker 1: about a doomed Polk County fishing trip. This is the
20:17
Speaker 1: guy who directly did the damage. His name's Tony Wiggins.
20:22
Speaker 1: He's an known ast TJ. The sheriff says. Friday night, Wiggins,
20:25
Speaker 1: his girlfriend Mary Whitmore, and his brother Robert went to
20:29
Speaker 1: this Dollar General in Frostproof. In front of them in
20:32
Speaker 1: line to check out was Damian Tilman, one of the victims.
20:35
Speaker 1: Video shows Tilman and Wiggins appearing to have a cordial conversation.
20:40
Speaker 1: Tilman mentions to the clerk, he's meeting up with Kevin
20:43
Speaker 1: Springfield to go fishing. Guys. That's exactly what the sheriff
20:47
Speaker 1: is telling us. And you, Sheriff Grady Judd, you were
20:50
Speaker 1: just telling us that these guys knew each other from
20:53
Speaker 1: high school. That's how far back they go. Absolutely, they
20:56
Speaker 1: were raised in the community together. So what happened in
21:00
Speaker 1: the line at Dollar General? When it's interesting? When Damien
21:06
Speaker 1: gets up to check out, of course he knows the
21:07
Speaker 1: guy who's the clerk. He tells the clerk, Hey, I'm
21:11
Speaker 1: going fishing. I'm going fishing with Kevin and I'm going
21:14
Speaker 1: fishing with Brandon. And they yet taught. They have small
21:18
Speaker 1: talk about well, good luck fishing, that sort of thing,
21:20
Speaker 1: and he exits the store, and then TJ checks out
21:27
Speaker 1: along with his brother Robert, and they exit the store.
21:33
Speaker 1: TJ asked Robert, who did Damian say he was going
21:37
Speaker 1: fishing with? He said Kevin. He said let's go to
21:41
Speaker 1: the lake. Right. He immediately directed his right merely. I
21:47
Speaker 1: don't get it. I don't get it, and I guess
21:49
Speaker 1: I need to shrink on this one too. How if
21:52
Speaker 1: someone came up to me and went, even a friend, hey,
21:56
Speaker 1: let's go to the lake and get these guys. Oh
21:59
Speaker 1: h no, what is it to you? Lawyer ut siena
22:04
Speaker 1: again high profile lawyer join him out of la How
22:07
Speaker 1: many times have you seen someone with no rap sheet
22:13
Speaker 1: go along with a cockamany half caught idea and they
22:21
Speaker 1: all end up going to jail something they would never
22:25
Speaker 1: have done on their own. We see it all the time.
22:28
Speaker 1: I mean, in this case, you've got Robert who's only
22:30
Speaker 1: got a misdemeanor from what I understand, and Mary Whittemore
22:35
Speaker 1: has nothing in her background, never been convicted of anything.
22:39
Speaker 1: And you start wondering, really how much the plan or
22:42
Speaker 1: what was coming. Did they really anticipate or see it's coming.
22:48
Speaker 1: They may just I mean, you never know what's going
22:50
Speaker 1: on in their minds. They're going along with Tony, who's
22:54
Speaker 1: probably leading the whole thing, knowing the kind of rap
22:58
Speaker 1: sheets and issues he's had or years. I'm shoots done
23:00
Speaker 1: an anger and shoot as well, and they end up
23:03
Speaker 1: at the scene. And from what we understand, Tony is
23:07
Speaker 1: the one doing all of it. He's the one who
23:09
Speaker 1: shoots the three men. He's the one arguing. Everything is
23:13
Speaker 1: done by Tony. If the rest are basically as far
23:17
Speaker 1: as the initial crime by killing the three best friends,
23:23
Speaker 1: it's Tony. The two others are basically watching two Sheriff
23:28
Speaker 1: Grady Judd Polk County, Florida, elected Sheriff Sheriff the law
23:34
Speaker 1: says that the law presumes you intend the natural consequences
23:39
Speaker 1: of your act. So when you get into the car
23:43
Speaker 1: with a guy saying I'm gonna go kill them, hamming
23:46
Speaker 1: my gun and your part and parcel of it, the
23:50
Speaker 1: law presumes you intend the natural consequences of that act.
23:54
Speaker 1: And I would tell jury's a million times, Sheriff. It's
23:57
Speaker 1: like I take a five pace of china and hold
23:59
Speaker 1: it up and it just throw it to the cement floor.
24:02
Speaker 1: The law presumes I intend to break it to shatter it.
24:07
Speaker 1: So when you go along with someone who's getting his
24:10
Speaker 1: gun and going for a revenge, the law presumes you
24:14
Speaker 1: and ten what's going to happen. And not only that, Sheriff.
24:17
Speaker 1: For instance, let's just say you and I go to
24:20
Speaker 1: a bank robbery and you just are the driver, and
24:23
Speaker 1: I go in and get a wild hair and start
24:25
Speaker 1: shooting the place up and kill a couple of people.
24:27
Speaker 1: You're on the hook murdo conspirator. I find it, you know,
24:32
Speaker 1: statistically from Mary Whitmore, to go along to be part
24:36
Speaker 1: of a mass murderer is very unusual statistically for a
24:39
Speaker 1: woman to do that. So what was the relationship between
24:43
Speaker 1: these three there at the dollar general who run into
24:48
Speaker 1: our guys going fishing? What were they to each other?
24:52
Speaker 1: Tony Wiggins, MJ. Whittemore and William Wiggins. Well, I know
24:56
Speaker 1: TJ and Robert Wiggins are brothers, age twenty six twenty one.
25:00
Speaker 1: Who's Mary Whitmore. Mary Whitmore is the girlfriend to TJ.
25:04
Speaker 1: And she bought the ammunition for him at a store
25:10
Speaker 1: up the road, as we say, in Polk County in
25:13
Speaker 1: Lake Wales, just a few days before because he's a
25:16
Speaker 1: convicted felon and he couldn't buy it. Oh, we also
25:19
Speaker 1: have lord to you. Ray Kaputo, Lead Knews anchor Orlando
25:24
Speaker 1: Morning News WDBO. Tell me about Tony Wiggins rap sheet.
25:29
Speaker 1: It must be pretty bad if he can't go buy
25:31
Speaker 1: any ammo. He puts his girlfriend up to it. What's
25:35
Speaker 1: his rap sheet? Gotta be some type of world record, Nancy.
25:38
Speaker 1: He starts at the tender age of twelve, and he's
25:41
Speaker 1: racked up two hundred and thirty felony convictions and as
25:45
Speaker 1: an adult, he spent more time in prison than he's
25:47
Speaker 1: spent as a freeman. He's a ticking time bomb and sadly,
25:51
Speaker 1: you know this last Friday night is when he exploded,
25:54
Speaker 1: killing three innocent young men. Sheriff jud what was he
25:57
Speaker 1: doing out walking free? To start with, he's been causing
26:00
Speaker 1: troubles twelve where most of his charges were his juveniles.
26:04
Speaker 1: And in the state of Florida, just like across the
26:07
Speaker 1: United States, our juvenile justice system has troubled discerning who
26:12
Speaker 1: were children committing mischief that's criminal, and who were prolific
26:19
Speaker 1: criminals as children, And between twelve and eighteen he was
26:23
Speaker 1: a prolific criminal. He would commit he may go to
26:28
Speaker 1: a string of home burglaries or car burglaries all at
26:32
Speaker 1: one time. When he picked up charges, he had two
26:35
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty charges, fifteen convictions, two trips to the
26:40
Speaker 1: county gil. He spent six of the last eight years
26:42
Speaker 1: of his life in prison. And when he did this,
26:46
Speaker 1: he was out on bond for breaking a guy's arm
26:50
Speaker 1: in a fight just in March of this year. He
26:54
Speaker 1: stays in trouble. The people in the community when they
26:57
Speaker 1: heard it, they didn't know about the murder, but who
27:01
Speaker 1: did the murder? But they kept saying, go look at TJ,
27:03
Speaker 1: Go look at TJ. Everybody in the community knows he's
27:07
Speaker 1: wild and he's hostile. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. Okay,
27:22
Speaker 1: so here's a guy that she'd never have been out.
27:24
Speaker 1: Two hundred and thirty arrest, fifteen convictions, and now three
27:30
Speaker 1: innocent guys are dead. Young guys, young twenty three years old,
27:37
Speaker 1: Damion Tillman, Kevin Springfield, Brandon Rollins, all dead over what
27:43
Speaker 1: Jackie play? Cut nine for me? Nine fifty six In
27:47
Speaker 1: the evening, Damien is checking out of the store with
27:55
Speaker 1: his product and cut a w FLA news reporter Stacy
27:59
Speaker 1: to Silva, listen to this. TJ tells Robert, who's driving,
28:04
Speaker 1: go to the lake. The sheriff says, the suspects show
28:06
Speaker 1: up on Lake Streety Road and see Tilman, Springfield and
28:09
Speaker 1: the third victim, Brandon Rawlins. He points the gun, Hey Kevin,
28:16
Speaker 1: and TJ says, where's my truck? Kevin goes, I don't
28:21
Speaker 1: know what you're talking about. Yeah you do, where's my truck?
28:25
Speaker 1: You sold the engine out of my truck, According to
28:28
Speaker 1: the sheriff, Wiggins then shoots and kills Tilman, Rawlins and Springfield.
28:33
Speaker 1: It's estimated and this is still under investigation. He shoots
28:37
Speaker 1: seen nine to ten times between the two of them.
28:41
Speaker 1: To you, Karen Smith's joining me, out of LA forensics
28:44
Speaker 1: expert hosts, shattered souls, nine to ten gunshot looms. It
28:52
Speaker 1: was so bloody. The dad who came to save his
28:57
Speaker 1: son couldn't even see the cell phone. Everything was covered
29:02
Speaker 1: in blood. How do you process a scene like that?
29:08
Speaker 1: This is a heartbreaking, first of all, and it's very
29:11
Speaker 1: complex for the crime scene detective. You have tire tracks,
29:15
Speaker 1: this is a muddy dirt road, you have shoeprints. You
29:18
Speaker 1: have two vehicles left at the scene. You have three bodies,
29:21
Speaker 1: you have multiple gunshot wounds, you have a lot of evidence.
29:24
Speaker 1: So this is a multi day scene. This is all
29:27
Speaker 1: hands on deck. This is every single fiber of your
29:31
Speaker 1: training and your education coming into play. You have to
29:34
Speaker 1: diagram it, you have to photograph it, you have to
29:36
Speaker 1: collect everything. And I would like to commend them the
29:39
Speaker 1: dollar General bag in that receipt. What a great find.
29:43
Speaker 1: That was the start of the timeline that the detectives
29:46
Speaker 1: needed to follow up. The end of the timeline was
29:49
Speaker 1: Brandon Rowland's phone call to his father. So you have
29:51
Speaker 1: a ten to fifteen minute timeline. The community kicked in
29:55
Speaker 1: gave the tips all of that evidence from the crime scene.
29:58
Speaker 1: It's going to play into this. I think they've got
30:00
Speaker 1: him dead to right, Nancy. As a fantastic case. Take
30:03
Speaker 1: a listen to Crime Onlines Dave Mack. When detectives located
30:08
Speaker 1: the suspects, they were living in a family compound of
30:10
Speaker 1: camper trailers not far from the murder scene. They were
30:13
Speaker 1: living off the grid with no running water, no electricity,
30:17
Speaker 1: using generators for power. T J. Wiggins and his girlfriend
30:20
Speaker 1: live in one of the travel trailers. His brother had another.
30:23
Speaker 1: With a search warrant, police found two SKS rifles, two
30:27
Speaker 1: Mossberg shotguns, and ammunition for both in a gun safe
30:31
Speaker 1: belonging to t. J. Wiggins. The ammunition found there, police say,
30:35
Speaker 1: was the same ammunition fired from the gun and the
30:37
Speaker 1: murders a Smith and Wesson handgun. Tracing the suspects movement
30:41
Speaker 1: after the killings, police say the three suspects drove to McDonald's,
30:45
Speaker 1: ordered ten double cheeseburgers, two mc chicken sandwiches, and then
30:49
Speaker 1: went home to eat. The next morning, Robert Wiggins took
30:52
Speaker 1: the truck he was driving to a car wash to
30:54
Speaker 1: get the road clay off. Okay, let me understand understand something.
30:58
Speaker 1: Share of Grady J. Polk County Florida special guests joining us.
31:02
Speaker 1: So after these three commit mass murder, they go out
31:09
Speaker 1: and pig out on McDonald's. Well, I guess you work
31:12
Speaker 1: up a hunger killing people like that. They drove directly
31:16
Speaker 1: small town, which is probably ten miles north of where
31:19
Speaker 1: they were, go through the drive through, order ten double
31:24
Speaker 1: cheeseburgers and two mc chickens. Did you hear me? Just crazy,
31:30
Speaker 1: and proceeded to have dinner, go home and eat. Karen
31:36
Speaker 1: start New York psychologists. When I would try violent crimes,
31:40
Speaker 1: which was every case I ever tried, you know, child molestation, murder,
31:45
Speaker 1: agasalt ag battery, I couldn't even eat. And I was
31:50
Speaker 1: just prosecuting the case. I mean, in the mornings before trial,
31:55
Speaker 1: I'd be so keyed up about the evidence. I have
31:58
Speaker 1: to watch the Little House on the Prairie before I
32:00
Speaker 1: could go in the court. Then once I started the evidence,
32:04
Speaker 1: there's no way I could eat. I just sit there
32:05
Speaker 1: at my counsel table while the jury went to launch
32:09
Speaker 1: because the evidence would be so upsetting. These people went
32:13
Speaker 1: and stuffed themselves on double cheese McDonald's. What what kind
32:19
Speaker 1: of mind is that? Like they can't remember the three
32:21
Speaker 1: guys they just murdered. It doesn't surprise me at all
32:25
Speaker 1: that who were talking about three people who really don't
32:29
Speaker 1: have any kind of feelings. They don't have a consens
32:32
Speaker 1: they have no compassion, no response to what they did.
32:37
Speaker 1: So it was an adventure and they worked up quite
32:41
Speaker 1: an appetite and that's why they were able to eat.
32:44
Speaker 1: And you would not be able to eat because you
32:47
Speaker 1: would be so upset, and they weren't upset at all.
32:51
Speaker 1: They were having a really good time. Karen Smith's LA
32:55
Speaker 1: forensics expert host Shattered Souls podcasts. Karen, you heard the
33:00
Speaker 1: type of weapons that were found in their their residence
33:04
Speaker 1: where they were living, quote off the grid, living off generators.
33:08
Speaker 1: You got mossbergs, you got SKS rifles. You heard what
33:12
Speaker 1: was used. What do you make of all the different
33:16
Speaker 1: guns these three had in their home. Well, first of all, TJ.
33:20
Speaker 1: Wiggins is a convicted felon, So there's another felony. Chalk
33:23
Speaker 1: that one up SKS that is a precursor to the
33:27
Speaker 1: AK forty seven holds the seven point six two rounds.
33:29
Speaker 1: That is a very powerful rifle, Mossberg shotgun. No more
33:33
Speaker 1: needs to be said about that. And then there's a handgun.
33:36
Speaker 1: I don't think that that has been recovered yet. However,
33:39
Speaker 1: they did find ammunition at this trailer that quote unquote
33:43
Speaker 1: matched what was at the theme. Now that means it's
33:45
Speaker 1: probably the same caliber in the same make, which is
33:47
Speaker 1: a Smith and Wesson. So that is really strong evidence
33:51
Speaker 1: against TJ. Wiggins and the other two, you know. Sheriff
33:53
Speaker 1: Grady Judd speaking as a victim of gun violence myself,
33:57
Speaker 1: I hate guns. I hate them. Now. I don't argue
34:01
Speaker 1: with the constitution. If you have a right to bear arms,
34:03
Speaker 1: have it. But Sheriff Judd, have you ever heard a rattlesnake?
34:09
Speaker 1: Have you ever heard one? Absolutely? You know there's something
34:13
Speaker 1: about that sound that he just gives me a chill,
34:17
Speaker 1: same thing rack and a shotgun. When you hear that,
34:23
Speaker 1: wherever you are, you freeze. Now, why does a guy
34:26
Speaker 1: like this with two hundred and thirty arrests have shotguns
34:31
Speaker 1: the precursor to AK forty seven for Beet's sake in
34:34
Speaker 1: his home. Why Well, because he likes guns and he
34:37
Speaker 1: doesn't follow the rules, which is more than evident. And
34:40
Speaker 1: when you're as mean and ugly to as many people,
34:44
Speaker 1: he's mean and ugly too. He feels that he's got
34:47
Speaker 1: to have firearms for self protection as my estimation, you know,
34:50
Speaker 1: to doctor Tim Gallagher, medical examiner for the State of Florida.
34:54
Speaker 1: Doctor Gallagher, you're now hearing that a handgun was used
34:57
Speaker 1: and that about ten rows that we know off we're fired.
35:02
Speaker 1: What does that do to the human body? Do you
35:05
Speaker 1: think these three victims felt pain. I'd have to believe
35:11
Speaker 1: that they did, especially knowing that you have a weapon
35:15
Speaker 1: like that pointed at you and the person behind it
35:17
Speaker 1: is ready to pull the trigger. Each victim was shot
35:20
Speaker 1: multiple times, and when a bullet goes through a body,
35:25
Speaker 1: it certainly hurts, you know, and I can't expect even
35:29
Speaker 1: in times of when the adrenaline is running and it's pumping,
35:34
Speaker 1: sometimes that may dull the pain a little bit. But
35:38
Speaker 1: by and large, when a bullet goes through your body
35:40
Speaker 1: and does the damage that it does, breaks the bones,
35:43
Speaker 1: rips to blood, vessels, perforates the organs, that incites a
35:47
Speaker 1: lot of pain. I was hoping that they would just
35:49
Speaker 1: go and shot, but I guess not to Shareff Grady
35:54
Speaker 1: jud Polk County, Florida elected sheriff Sheriff. I'm just sick
35:59
Speaker 1: about it. Just think about what these families are going through.
36:05
Speaker 1: How are the families today? I mean, see, we're all
36:08
Speaker 1: sick about it. I've done this job my entire adult life.
36:12
Speaker 1: I've been in law enforcement forty eight years and I've
36:17
Speaker 1: seen horrific scenes before. In this ranks right at the
36:19
Speaker 1: very top of all of the ones that I've seen,
36:23
Speaker 1: and I've seen a lot, but I can tell you
36:26
Speaker 1: the families totally wiped out. They're totally devastated. These are
36:30
Speaker 1: good people, but they're exceptionally poor people. In fact, they
36:36
Speaker 1: don't have enough money to bury their children, or didn't
36:40
Speaker 1: I ask on the air, ken a few people or
36:44
Speaker 1: can a lot of people give a few dollars? In
36:48
Speaker 1: less than twelve hours, we raised one hundred and fifty
36:51
Speaker 1: thousand dollars to bury these three people that die this
36:55
Speaker 1: senseless death. And these folks, you know, they have to
37:00
Speaker 1: buy clothes to go to a funeral. I mean, you're
37:02
Speaker 1: just really good, poor people, and it breaks my heart. Well,
37:06
Speaker 1: Sheriff Judd, coming from rural Middle Georgia, I know exactly
37:11
Speaker 1: the kind of fine people you're talking about. God bless
37:15
Speaker 1: their families. We wait as justice Unfoalds Nancy Grace crime
37:22
Speaker 1: story signing off, Goodbye friend,