Latest / Go Long Podcast / Real Football: Jalen Hurts flops, Josh Allen YOLOs, Packers’ reckoning & requiem for Terry Fontenot’s Falcons build

Transcript

Real Football: Jalen Hurts flops, Josh Allen YOLOs, Packers’ reckoning & requiem for Terry Fontenot’s Falcons build · Go Long Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Jim, I've got a problem on my hands.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_01: This is the song currently stuck in my brain.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot extract it from the brain.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to hit play.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I want your initial reaction when you hear the
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: haunting melody from the 1980s.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's so good.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: It's, yeah.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, do you know the lyrics that begin this song?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_02: The lyrics, no, but it takes, go ahead.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know the lyrics, but know the song.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_02: Go ahead.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to tell you where it takes me to.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: Into the Night, Betty Mardone's, God Rest His Soul.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I believe he died during COVID.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: I went down a rabbit hole.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think he settled in Syracuse, actually.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: The most insane song.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's one of those songs I've heard my whole life, right?
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: That soft rock and love song.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's right out of Yacht Rock.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: Like a Yacht Rock kind of jam.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it popped up on an Instagram reel.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: People were making fun of it.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's insane.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: Listen to the first lyrics.
• 1:48
  [music]
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: She's just 16 years old.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: Leave her alone, they said.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then,
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: so the reel that I saw,
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: it's like the guy at the front door, the dad of the girl turning him away.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought they were just like over the top.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, well, I wonder what the real music video looks like.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: The real music video is even crazier.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: You've got like this sleazy dude with the greasy hair walking down the sidewalk.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: And the dad answers the door and says, she is only 16 years old.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: Leave her alone.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then what does Benny do?
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Goes around the house and he's peering through the window at the 16-year-old.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: Just insane.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like this was a,
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know,
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: a number whatever song for however many weeks that's just been stitched
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: in our brains for years.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: Man.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is it crazy?
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: There was a whole genre in the 80s, I feel like.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Statutory rock was a thing back in the 80s.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: I cannot imagine how this happened.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: So when I hear that, it's funny you say that because I don't know the lyrics.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, my reaction, that was crazy.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_02: But it takes me back to I just felt like I was sitting in the back seat,
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_02: parents' car, going somewhere again.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know,
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: and it's the same repetitive song after song after song and never listened to it
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_02: because it was just,
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_02: you know how like song, it just becomes a white noise basically.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: 80s music to me is white noise.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm saying.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: It was just accepted as normal at the time.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: I wasn't listening to the lyrics, yeah, but I wasn't even listening.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: And music video, I wouldn't have seen it maybe back then.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_02: I don't know, but Tyler, that's ridiculous.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_02: Just batshit crazy.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: We like to pine for the good old days often here on Real Football when it comes to football.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_01: And, oh, life was better in the 90s and the 80s.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe life wasn't better.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_01: If this is a normal song with those kind of lyrics,
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think he was 34 years old when he authored this track as well.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, 34-year-old creeping on the 16-year-old.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's, like, a ton of songs like that.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: Doesn't Bruce Springsteen have one?
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, hey, baby girl, is your daddy home?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's all sorts of popular songs that we just,
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, didn't think anything of back then.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't around.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe you were.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Did anybody, like, point out that this is insane in the moment?
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: I hope so.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there's, like, a lone wolf somewhere.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_01: Benny, what are you doing?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody's got to sit down with Benny.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Benny, this is a bad idea.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do this.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not a – so I'm not an 80s guy.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I said, I was a kid.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, whatever, I would have been 10 – Mid-80s, I'm 10 years old.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not an 80s music guy.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: No, 70s music, you can give me that all day long.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: I'll listen to that all day long.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_02: 80s, to your point, creepy, whatever it is, there's always a creepy just music vibe.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_02: The dancing was off.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like everything was just off when you see the videos.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's insane.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_01: By the end of it, He's on a magic carpet ride with her making out.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: So there's nothing left up to imagination with Benny into the night.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_01: He takes her into the night.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I guess he circumnavigated the parenting at the 16-year-old's home.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Just a shame.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't really know where I was going with this.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes there's a song stuck in your head and you hope to play it a few times
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: and it'll filter out of your head eventually.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: You could have given me,
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_02: as we talk about in gambling,
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: you could have given me a million guesses how we were going to lead
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: the show off today.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: And it would not have been with that song.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: I would have lost a lot of money.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: No, it took me down.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: I tell you, that had me in tears laughing.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's hard to believe that there was even...
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm looking at the album cover.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's so creepy.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's just like, he's in a dark alley.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: The greasy hair is blowing in the wind.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, the hair was off.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: What's the name of this album?
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: The album is called Never Run, Never Hide.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_01: So through hell or high water, he is going to commit a crime here.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, sometimes life has gotten better over times.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's probably good that if an artist tried to pull this off today,
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: it would not be executed in the production meeting.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: Well...
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_02: I can't even imagine.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it goes back to any show we watch.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_02: You could go back to any of the sitcoms that were on, 70s, 80s.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_02: Married with Children, a show I watched growing up.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_02: I shouldn't probably have been watching it, but that show doesn't even get made now.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_02: Awful.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, funny, but awful.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: That's the thing, too.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to go back in time and Judge the people that lived in that time,
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: in that moment, today, in 2026.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Most of the time, I think that is...
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: It's a little unfair with a lot of examples in life.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_01: But in this case, this is bad any year, any era.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: I don't care if it's the 1800s.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: It's awful.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry about that.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: And yet, the jingle...
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is pretty good.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: And it gets stuck in your head.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: I can see it in your head for sure.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_01: I need some new music, everyone.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: Help me out here.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: I got a little Treaty Oak revival on the Spotify.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: Great band.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Ian Noe has a new album out.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: He's fantastic.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_01: Usually I go the Texas country route.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I got to escape the 80s, get the hell out of there, and get back to my comfort zone.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: The kids, what we're really into, speaking of genres or decades, 1950s music.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Now that does age really well.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we love playing the 50s music in the basement for our dance parties of late.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: A little Mr. Postman.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: What a good song.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, love songs have changed too.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like you have in the 50s, you know, a nice lady discussing her love interest.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: Mr. Postman, tell me I have a letter in the mail.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Please help me out here, Mr. Postman, to...
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_01: Cardi B and WAP and a different way to go about it today.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So times have changed there.
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps not for the better, one could say.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: This is Real Football.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's Jim Monis.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Tyler Dunne.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is always a hell of a lot of fun.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: A lot happening.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Four weeks into this NFL season, the Monis report has been great.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you read that.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: Ex-NFL scout with the Eagles,
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: Saints, director of personnel with the Bills, now working in the UFL.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: What a pleasure always to have Jim here on the pod.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_01: So that's live for you all.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: I've got a two-part series on Matt LaFleur live,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: discussing the state of affairs for this team, this coach at this time.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: Tried to chat with everybody I could inside of 1265 Lombardi.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, all corners of the building, players, personnel, front office.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: Coaches, it's year eight for Matt LaFleur.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: And what we're going to get into this moment for him,
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: really this week,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: you could say this game against the Chicago Bears at Lambeau Field against
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: a backup quarterback, get it done.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_01: This might be his most important game in the regular season as head coach in eight years.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Their season could take a hard turn left or right with how this goes down.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_01: You could beat the Bears at home.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_01: Reclaim a little street cred in the NFC North as Ben Johnson punks you left and right.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Publicly, Matt LaFleur has taken that high road or tried to.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: He wants the performance on the field to speak for itself.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we'll see because the Bears are bringing in a powerhouse Russian attack.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_01: Holy hell.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: What that line has working is it might not matter what defense is across the line of scrimmage.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see how Green Bay can hold up there.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: I got to think they just Just pack the box and try to force Bayesian to throw
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: the ball down the field if you're Green Bay.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_01: That might not even stop the run, but
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: they still have Jordan Love.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: They still have some weapons, and they're at home.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: And do you have a quick thought there before we continue to preview the show?
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I have a quick thought on that game.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's professional football.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: And Green Bay, Jordan Love is an MVP candidate.
• 10:53
  SPEAKER_02: You and I have broke him down every way we could as far as is he for real or not.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: He's good.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_02: He's for real.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_02: And it's time for him, too.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: Don't lose to a backup quarterback.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's that simple.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody step up, make plays.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's professional football.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you're missing two legit players, running back and pass rusher.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_02: Get over it now.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_02: It's time to step up.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_02: The Bears are favored in Lambeau.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: First time since 2006,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: I heard.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Which was Mike McCarthy's first game as head coach, I believe.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: Also the season...
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Chicago went to the Super Bowl.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thinking back.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: No notes here.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: I want to say they blanked them at Lambeau Field that day.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to tell you who they beat in the NFC Championship that year.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: New Orleans Saints?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Not the NFC.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it was the NFC.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: In Chicago.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: We did not think we were going that year.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a successful year.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: However, that ended for the Saints, right?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: It started with Steve Gleason.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: They just had the 20-year reunion.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's funny.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's right.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_02: Man, that was, yeah.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll touch
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: on that.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: I want to get Jim's thoughts on all things Matt LaFleur.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you've got the front office perspective.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: Brian Gutekunst has been there a long time, and there's always that debate when things go south.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the head coach's fault?
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is it the GM's fault?
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: And you know what?
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_01: That's why in part two of this series – I spent a lot of time relitigating
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_01: that 21-3 meltdown to the Chicago Bears in the wild card game because I think
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: that game is a microcosm of the team and the coach.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: And you can spin that game,
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_01: that absolute calamity for the Green Bay Packers on par with any of
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: the great playoff collapses we've seen this century.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_01: You can really look at it through so many different prisms and talk to a One coach
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_01: in particular, that week of the loss.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I wanted the wounds to be fresh, and he was kind enough to have a very long conversation.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_01: This probably talked for an hour,
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: breaking down play to play to play,
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: what we saw, what we didn't see, who was at fault.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Really approached it with a sober mind that was a little emotional
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: because they had it in their grips.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's player error.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: There's confidence.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching malpractice and there's a lack of a killer instinct.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And you've heard from Javon Bullard here at Go Long on the need to get that.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of Javon Bullard,
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_01: this is a good week to kind of reprise his comments when we sat down
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: in Milledgeville, Georgia in March.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: So that's two months after the loss to the Bears.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what Javon Bullard had to say when we got dinner back in his hometown and
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: that game came up.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, damn, I hate Chicago.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's like real hate.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stand Chicago.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the hell it is.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the team.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like the coach.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like shit about Chicago except for their food.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: I do love their food.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: But other than that, man, damn Chicago.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then I wrote,
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_01: once the Bears 31-27 comeback was complete,
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: Ben Johnson tossed a grenade onto the rivalry inside the winner's locker room.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: The Bears head coach shouted, F the Packers, F them.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, Bullard loved this fire.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: When it's time to get back to work, he might even say something to Matt LaFleur.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's time for his own coach to pop off.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, don't let him try to shit on you like that.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: I don't like that.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_01: No, every game is not the same.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: He wants vengeance.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is not unhinged rage.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: And he hopes the Bears hear everything he has to say.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: And now he's got his shot.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_01: He is one of the healthy Packers in this game.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And look, you win this game.
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: You think at some point you get Micah Parsons back?
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Things can get back on track for Green Bay.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Of course,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: the last time we saw them at home,
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: they're getting booed relentlessly by their own fans in a 35-14 loss to Atlanta.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll get into that game.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_01: And of course, we've got to talk Buffalo, a team that Jim is intimately familiar with.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, their first loss, and it was sloppy, lethargic.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: You had your MVP quarterback, Just make an absolute boneheaded mistake.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of had all of the greatness in Josh Allen and then all of the old,
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_01: what in the hell are you doing, Josh Allen, in the same play.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: They ran a little TE stunt, New England did.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: There's a free runner right in his face.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was Ian Eagle, even in the moment.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, oh my God, how did he escape?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: But then he just chucks it up in the double coverage and throws a pick
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: when you needed two first downs.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where it gets interesting because Joe Brady doesn't want to Neuter his quarterback.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't want to put those thoughts in his head.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do this.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't do that.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: He wants Josh Allen in full.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's going to be collateral damage even now.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: The side of 30 with this kind of quarterback.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And then, of course, there's all sorts of issues on defense.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then finally, I know we are going to talk Jalen Hurts and the Philadelphia Eagles.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps we will write their obituary for this 2026 NFL season.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right here ahead of week five.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Are you prepared to do that, Jim?
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Are you done with the Eagles?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_01: Is it time for Nick Sirianni and co to plan their January vacations?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a wrap.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_02: It's so hard to think that it's...
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_02: The windows close so fast.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_02: We could do that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_02: Because I'm thinking Detroit, too.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_02: Like, windows shut quick.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of dead money.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they really...
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Inked a lot of contracts.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: You think those chickens will come home to roost salary cap-wise.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: Where do you want to start?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: Well, let's do Philly quick because we don't have to.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_02: So to me,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: and it just strikes me as this with Hertz,
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_02: that I compared him to Tim Tebow, and I'm saying that in a complimentary way.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: Where he is championship level,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: leader, tough, everything you want to represent you at quarterback.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: He's just not a pure passing quarterback, bottom line.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_02: And he beats you differently.
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_02: He beats you with his legs.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: Tebow did it Florida.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_02: It was a straight system.
• 17:21
  SPEAKER_02: The other thing that Florida had was a bunch of NFL pro bowlers around Tebow.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And guess who else had a bunch of NFL Pro Bowlers around Hurts?
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: That Philadelphia Eagles team.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_02: Stacked.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: Loaded.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: It's not anymore.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_02: That simple.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's not, and you're seeing the results.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_02: Almost like Brady leaving Belichick.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: You kind of see where, sometimes you just see how it works.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_02: And see kind of who really was the,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_02: the heart, or,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: really who is the franchise, quote-unquote, You know, is Hurts really the guy?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_02: Is he the catalyst, the reason the Philadelphia Eagles were winning?
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_02: Or are they a loaded team with, you know, a hell of a tough system quarterback?
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_01: You called it last year.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think we did a whole podcast dedicated to the same exact topic.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's how you describe Jalen Hurts.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: He is a system quarterback.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: You need to use his legs.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: You need to embrace the between the tackles,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: running inside zone stuff, make him part of your rushing attack.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_01: Don't ask him to be this pocket passer that is going to throw 40 plus times.
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_01: And there really isn't a comp for him in the NFL because he won a Super Bowl.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And in the Super Bowl he lost, he was the best player on the field.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: Played great.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: Tebow was, I mean, he played, he had great college football games.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: You can have great games.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_02: It just doesn't mean you're a great passer.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_02: You could still have a great game.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he was dreadful.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_01: Their offense was dreadful.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I had it at the tip of my tongue.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_01: I've got to pull up the numbers from this game for Philadelphia because it's absurd.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: He was 12 of 27, 93 yards.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_01: 3.4 yards per attempt.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_01: Had the two touchdowns.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: Was sacked four times.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: 78.2 rating.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Just ran for 18 yards.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: No Saquon Barkley, so now you're leaning on Tank, Bigsby, Will Shipley.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they can pick up one of your old running backs.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who did you have back in your scouting days?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Corral, Buckhalter, Dorsey, Levins.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: I think he caught Levins post Packers, right?
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_02: Deuce Staley, of course.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I was Deuce, Buckhalter, Westbrook.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_01: Our recent podcast guest,
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: Brian Westbrook.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: Brian Westbrook and Correll Buckholder.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: That is, man,
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: that's hard to believe you could have those three on a team, to be honest with you.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_02: Anyway.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: You know who's a little ahead of his time, too?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I know we're all Ricky Waters should be in the Hall of Fame.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: Love Ricky Waters.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: But what about the back in between?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Charlie Garner was a pretty good back.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: So tough.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: Good call.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_02: You can catch the ball, too.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_02: Good call.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Agree.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they're not walking through that door for the Eagles.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: So he's going to
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: have to throw.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to have to throw.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And he can't consistently.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: Jeffrey Simmons was right.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: The Titans D tackle.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: He said their plan ahead of that Titans Eagles game was to make Jalen Hurts play quarterback.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He beat the Titans.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: He was proud of it.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And Simmons went up to him during his postgame interview with Fox or whoever was doing the game.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: And they hugged and they, you know, hugged it out.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_01: But sometimes a player says the quiet part out loud and they're right.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_02: I just always think of A.J.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: Brown.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just don't feel like I've never met a number one receiver that would ever leave
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: a quarterback that he thought could get him the ball.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_02: We could almost leave it at that.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we all know receivers aren't going anywhere if they believe in the quarterback.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly, right?
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: Leave it right there.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_01: If A.J.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: Brown, when he's healthy...
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Top ten, perhaps top five wide receiver is reading books on the sideline.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: There's clearly dysfunction behind the scenes.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Regardless of what the Eagles communications arm emailed me this offseason
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: when I referenced it in an Andrew McCuba article.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't all peaches and cream, Philly, in that locker room.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: If A.J.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: Brown wants out,
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: that tells you a lot about the quarterback you're paying,
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: what, 50, 55 million a year.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: And they're still paying.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, then Lane Johnson retires, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: This week.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: Your best lineman.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a blow.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: Jeff Stoutland ain't walking through that door.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a blow.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: What they do have working for them, though,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: Jameis Winston and J.J. McCarthy are the quarterbacks of the 3-1 New York Giants.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: I love the way you describe that game in your column, Jim.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: Jacoby Brissett and Jameis Winston.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_02: Five picks.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_02: Just a beautiful... Oh, yeah.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was beautiful.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_02: It was five picks.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: Just a beautiful line.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Who is it here?
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_02: You know how much I love games like that.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that is like right up... That's right up our alley.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: Brissette versus Winston delivered.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_01: They combined for five interceptions, 18 yards rushing, and obviously 60 points.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's it.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: Fireworks.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_02: You knew it was going to be 60 points.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_02: Jameis...
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: I cannot get over how I think about him because Mariota is playing a lot right now too.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_02: He plays and gets hurt.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's almost a guarantee.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then the Baklava bomber came in.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_02: I heard that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't coin that.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody called the third string quarterback for Washington, the Greek, the Baklava bomber.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: But what was the game we were talking about?
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no, Jameis, Winston and Mariota, that draft.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: We weren't going to take a quarterback.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was with the Bills at the time because we weren't in the quarterback market.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: They were the top two.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: We didn't really care for either one of them, to be honest.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if we really dug in, it was going to – they were – Winston wasn't my style at all.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he could throw.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: But other than that, he was just a straight – same way.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's always been the same.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: High maintenance.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: He plays the game like he is almost as a person.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Not saying that like he's a bad person.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's wild.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: He's a lot.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: He's dramatic.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: There's turnovers.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_02: There's comedy.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't take things.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: Whatever.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's just a lot.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_02: That's not what you want at your quarterback.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mariota was almost too much the other way.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_02: You have to have a little bark in you.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I need a little dog.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: I need a little something in my quarterback.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I get it, man.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: I know you're laid back,
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_02: but And then because his game is good, like Mariota, you still see it in him.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: He comes in and always does a great job, but he always gets hurt.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's always been like that.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_02: I always think of Glass Joe from the old Mike Tyson knockout Nintendo, if you're old enough.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Mariota,
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_02: he almost has that look to him,
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_02: like Glass Joe, just fragile, like you're going to touch him.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_02: But they're both playing right now.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_02: They're both playing.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_02: Like, it's crazy how right now they're both, I know.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: These teams don't have to draft a quarterback first overall.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's always this, if you don't have one, you've got to draft one.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: You just have to do it.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_01: Tennessee, they didn't have to draft Cam Ward.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he still has a shot.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a strong arm, but they're on to a second coach.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: They haven't won a game this year.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: Just because you don't have a quarterback and you possess the first overall pick,
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: that's where it pays for And if you've got red flags,
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: like you just pointed out, be aware of those red flags.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: Do something else.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: Trade out of the pick.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: Draft somebody else.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_01: Because when you select that player, you're in.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're pot committed, right?
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: You're all in.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: It better work or everybody's going to get fired.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: It just seems like if you're first overall, it doesn't even matter.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see what Mendoza is.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: He hasn't played it down.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: He hasn't played.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_02: But it goes that whole distraction thing, the maintenance.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's the same thing I was thinking with Anthony Richardson, where you have to be on the field.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be heard.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: You have to take things seriously.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_02: You can't be turning the ball.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a profession.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's not arm strength.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's not college stats.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: There's so much that goes into it, and that's why the Bradys –
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: We always talk about who are the greatest talents.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's why the greatest quarterbacks weren't necessarily the greatest physical talented players.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: The Joe Montanas, the Tom Brady's, the Peyton Manning's.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_02: Those guys aren't physically gifted players.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_02: They're gifted with their everything else.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_02: How they attack you,
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_02: how they know what coverage you are,
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_02: how accurate they are, how tough they are, their movement in the pocket.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: All that skill, that's quarterbacking.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, we joke around all the time how I say,
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_02: you know, I wouldn't, but at the end of the day, those are the best quarterbacks.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they have that rare stuff that you can't find inside of them.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And Hertz has, oh, go ahead.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, I was just going to add, you can wait.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: There are GMs and teams.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_01: One that you worked with and Terry Fontenot with the Atlanta Falcons where he,
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't rush the quarterback thing, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're trying to make it work with Mariota.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the quarterbacks they tried to get by with,
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: Desmond Ritter, Matt Ryan before that, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of went through the gamut.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually,
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: do first sign Kirk Cousins to the big money,
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: then draft Michael Penix Jr. Penix suffers another injury, and they're fired.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_01: Fontenot's fired.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_01: Raheem Morris is fired.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: You watch the Falcons now.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: They clearly have talent.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_02: There's good football players.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of good football players.
• 27:24
  SPEAKER_01: They lost Jalen Walker, their first-round pick, to an injury.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: James Pierre is going through all of his off-field stuff, obviously.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think A.J.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: Terrell was out of that game.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_01: Even then, they have depth to pound the Packers, pound the Saints.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe Pendix is good.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a strong arm.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the GM's sitting at home watching it.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: The head coach is sitting at home watching it.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what the moral of the story is.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin Stefanski is brilliant when it comes to run game design.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_01: The stuff they're doing with Bajon Robinson, the best back in the game, arguably is special.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Drake London, but they draft, he did draft all these guys.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: Drake London, Bajon Robinson.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Now granted the pits one backfired, but defensively they've drafted.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the Billy Bowman Jr.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's tough, man.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you were the GM of a team, how would you navigate it?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Jim?
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like how, Cause you can't force it.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like they didn't want to force it at quarterback.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I wrote about this in the CJ Stroud story ahead of the season and how it's do
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: or die for him.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: I had sources tell me like in the Falcons meeting with him,
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: like CJ Stroud is like, no, I'm going number one overall.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_01: He was convinced.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_01: And the head coach, Arthur Smith kind of broke it to him and said, no, you're not.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to like Carolina's taken Bryce young.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he knew that because he, And I believe Bryce Young and Nick Saban all had the same agent.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was all decided.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: And CJ just couldn't believe it.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, well, we really like you.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: We'll try to trade up and get you potentially.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_01: And that didn't happen.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe they loved him, but they just couldn't get to him.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess my question for you, Jim, you're running an NFL team.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: You're building a roster.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: How do you go about this thing?
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_01: You know what you want in a quarterback, but you don't know where you're going to be picking.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know how that player is going to be available.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, we're talking about Atlanta,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_02: and it's almost like,
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_02: did they need to get rid of Terry Fontenot,
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_02: or did they need to get rid of the head coach?
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're telling me that the plan was to have Kirk Cousins come in,
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: draft Penix,
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_02: whether or not you like Penix or not,
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_02: they did and believed in him, but that's still showing a plan.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, Cousins comes in, let's get Cousins on the field, let Penix grow.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: But they didn't get to carry it out.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_02: Because we're seeing,
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_02: we are seeing Penix, you know, developed a little bit with talent around him.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_02: I'm still a little, I mean, a lot more to go with Penix, obviously.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: But when you see the other players on Atlanta, it's tough, man.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_02: The NFL is tough business.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: There was some good draft picks that maybe Raheem Morris wasn't the,
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: you know, maybe he wasn't the guy to get Kirk Cousins and Penix and all that right.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I don't know enough about that.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: But, To think that, I can promise you Terry Fontenot was watching that game smiling.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good, I mean, that's a good feeling.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_02: The whole, everybody's talking about the players you drafted.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: In an atmosphere that was unbelievable.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's the loudest stadium in all of football.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_01: 20 years after Steve Gleason's blocked punt, Steve Gleason is in the house.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: Drew Brees is in the house.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sitting in my living room watching this, and it's deafening.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a different pitch of noise.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_01: You got all the voodoo stuff down there in New Orleans.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's the ultimate home field advantage.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: And Atlanta went in there and curb stomped the Saints.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was, what was the final?
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: 45-24.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: Man, 205 yards on the ground.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Pennix was solid, 15-20, 223 and a touch.
• 31:07
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see how the season plays out.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like we've been hyping up the Atlanta Falcons.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: I have, like the last three years.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh, they can build a bully.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: I've talked to Chris Lindstrom at length.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: They've got this great offensive line.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's finally coming to fruition, maybe, with the previous GM's picks.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_01: But that's it.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Coaching, it's got to be synced up.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about it all the time.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Hell, I'm not blowing smoke to a co-host, but look at Jim Monas' drafts with Doug Whaley.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_01: You guys nailed some mid to late round picks.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: You found,
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: you found some talent,
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_01: a lot of which I want to say are still in the league up until recently even.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it goes, no, you're right.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_02: Everything has to, everything has to be aligned.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's, but it is good to see, you know, you do, it's a business.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_02: It happens, you know, firings happen.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_02: You got, it's who you know, who likes you.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: But man, I think that,
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_02: Well, to think if Terry Fontenot wants to be a GM again,
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: I would think he should be on the interview list.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Agreed.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_01: He's, I wrote about it last year.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you guys want to check out the story, I just love how he's bold.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: He identifies a player that he really,
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: really wants and gets that player, regardless of charts, convention.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_01: We can argue the value he He knew exactly what he wanted at the top of drafts,
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: at the bottom of drafts.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, Penix will be a very fascinating player to watch.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: He's strong arm.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's amazing.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: It really, no, it always has been this way.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: No mobility there, obviously.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_01: But with that running game, you can feed off of that running game.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to have opportunities.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: Agree, agree.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: It can get shaky with Penix.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_02: But the toughness has always been there with him.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: I have watched him.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like he's, for some reason, I feel like he's 40 years old.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: I don't even know what his actual age is.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_02: But I remember watching him at the University of Indiana.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I used to, you know, you'd gamble on a game, Indiana.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of those 12 noon games in the Big Ten.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_02: And you're like, wait a second.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_02: What did I get myself into betting against Indiana today?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: Who the hell is this quarterback whipping the ball around?
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I didn't know what I was getting into.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, and then the journey begins.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it goes, it's almost like we always talk about the Penix, there's a journey.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, he, like you say, he whips it around, but the other team's going to have chances.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Not that he's not, that he doesn't see it, but.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry to interrupt you, Jim.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: No, no, no.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: If Michael Penix is good, if he, Delivers in his winning games.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_01: Terry Fontenot should be a GM.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: Here's what he said.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, we empower our scouts as when we sat down in his office last year.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: We empower our coaches.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: We empower our analytics.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_01: We want to have a lot of smart people that are working really hard
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: and are confident enough to not worry about the perception or the outside.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_01: We know it wasn't popular to take Michael Penix last year,
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_01: but we spent all the time on it, and we had faith and belief in this building.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: The confidence in our building,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: our people,
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_01: and the process that we go through,
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_01: we can ignore that outside and do everything we can that we believe is going
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_01: to get us to that championship that we're seeking.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_01: And then goes on and on about why he loves Penix so much.
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_01: He called him a foxhole quarterback.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: If we had that level of belief,
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_01: if we believe this guy was a special franchise quarterback
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: and we don't take him last year and we're sitting here right now,
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: how does that feel?
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: We see him somewhere else and say we had a chance.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: Then he got hurt and they couldn't see it through.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pivot.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pivot.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: The Buffalo Bills, Joe Brady, his first loss as head coach to the New England Patriots.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_01: What is your takeaway?
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: We weren't able to do our aftermath pod afterwards.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: You lost your voice, I'm guessing, because you're screaming.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: You might have lost a bet or two, Jim.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: Is that right?
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: No, no.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_02: I don't do that.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_02: I called those Friday Night Lights football game.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_02: I called those games on Friday,
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: and then Then Saturday night,
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: let's just say I was out at some places that were loud.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_02: So you had to speak loud.
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_02: So I had two consecutive nights of, and the voice went, the voice went.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_01: What are your thoughts?
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: So thoughts are, there's a mix of, I am the number one Josh Allen's greatest whatever I know.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_02: But he does have to take accountability at this.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: Again, we've had these talks before with him, and you and I have always talked.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: You and I are big Brett Favre fans,
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_02: and that comparison,
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: if it's out there with him and Favre,
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it's a little different, but I get it.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_02: At some point, it has to stop.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: You can't just say, oh, man, he's taking chances.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: He's taking chances.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: No, that has to stop.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I feel like he still is okay with that.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_02: Like Josh is still, I think he's aware of it.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_02: He was before when this happened.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: We've had this talk two years ago,
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like it was, that he was turning the ball over too much, too much.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's funny how there's a certain head coach sitting around laughing right now.
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sean McDermott, we'll talk about that in a second.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm pretty sure Sean McDermott had these talks with him before, a couple years ago.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: But we need you to.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the, that's the, The fine line of are we going to rein him in, which you're not.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_02: And I don't think Sean McDermott wanted to rein him in,
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: but you need to be aware at some point that it's not always somebody else.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_02: These are your plays.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_02: You can hold on to the ball longer in some of those situations.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: We can talk about that.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_02: But the real problem for me,
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: and it's going to stay this way,
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: is I'm pretty sure when the Buffalo Bills,
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_02: when Josh Allen left the field, pretty sure they had the lead
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like that happens a lot, that the Bills have the lead when Josh Allen leaves the field.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: Whose fault is it if you're not winning the game then?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's not the guy that's the quarterback.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's the defense.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_02: And here we go, Tyler, the weekly stats.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: Points per play, 20th.
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_02: Quarterback rating, other team, 26.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: Third down percentage, 20th.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a real defense.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_02: That's not a playoff defense even.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: Not close to Super Bowl.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I think we know that.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, they play hard up front, and they're still having some impact.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: There's still some freak plays going on up front,
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: but it's not translating to what you need,
• 38:11
  SPEAKER_02: and that is keeping points off the board, yards off the board.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_02: Patriots left points on the board in that game.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: They left points on the board.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_02: So that, to me, until that gets cleaned up, and now we're on to the Rams, good luck.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Puka Nakua, Devontae Adams, Zay Flowers, Justin Jefferson.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a murderer's row
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: of wide receivers watching this Maxwell Hairston tape licking their chops.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: Hairston was awful.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: This was a game from hell for him right to the end.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_01: God, I've watched it a million times to not understand in that moment.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_01: The Patriots, it goes third and ten.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: May just does this.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: Lollygagging, easy does it.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, little play action rollout.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's Hunter Henry.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_01: For you to not relentlessly just throw your body at the tight end's legs
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_01: and cut them down because they're not going to...
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: Are they going to go for it on fourth and two deep in their own end?
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: They got to punt it.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_02: I don't care what coach you are.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're punting.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: To not sacrifice that and just kind of dance around the pile.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: It was awful.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_01: It kind of reminded me...
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm laughing.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: God bless her.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_01: Ella playing a little summer soccer for the first time.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: And she's just very hesitant, right?
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: Just kind of going along with the amiibo from one net to the other.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: If she makes contact with the ball, it's kind of an accident.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_02: Maxwell Harrison was just kind of along for the ride on that
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_01: play.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: I know you're not drafting him for his physicality, obviously.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was outside of your...
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Your size, speed, requirements that they've had.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we applauded the draft pick for them kind of thinking outside of the box.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: You've got all these quick chief receivers that work in the slot and move horizontally.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: And you do need a non-Kyer Elam who can stick with these guys.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not giving up on Maxwell Harrison.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_01: I give him a lot of credit.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_01: He showed up for reporters Monday because he blew him off on Sunday.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Players never talk on Monday.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: Seem to own his mistakes on the field, off the field, all of that.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's troubling.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I'd feel more confident in Davidson Ignosen than Harrison at this point.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Benford was having his own struggles, but you need him back from the toe.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Do you call Tredavious White?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get to Josh Allen.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_01: Don't worry.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: But number one, it's corner.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: Finding bodies out there who can hang with these receivers, I think.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you on this.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: The secondary in general, Hairston is small and world-class speed, okay?
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: But he's tight.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: And he's not right now.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: If you're going to be small, you better be sticky.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: And when we drafted Ron Darby with the Bills, he was a smaller-ish corner.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: But he was a little, you know, he was stock.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: He was built pretty well.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_02: But he was, you know, like 5'10", 5'11", right under.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_02: But he could cover.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: You couldn't get away from him.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_02: He was so quick, so explosive.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: He didn't have elite ball skills or else he would have been first round.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_02: Harrison doesn't either.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's the problem.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: So right now with Harrison, all I see is speed.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not translating to anything.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Igbenson?
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's a great point.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_01: You know another name that pops to mind?
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_01: Ahmad Carroll.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_01: Remember him in Green Bay, first round pick?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Good one.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: All speed.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: Good one.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good call.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Couldn't really make plays on the ball.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: Good recall by you.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's where he was.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_01: He might have had a fumble recovery against the Rams in 04,
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: but I remember him just being a blink of an eye and he was gone.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's to the extreme.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_01: You would assume Harrison's better than Ahmad Carroll,
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_01: but you've got to have a calling card, right?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Something to you.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_02: And the Ohio State coroner.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: Is physical, but he is a tad slow.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you can see it.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: He's going to be a tad slow, but he's a physical bigger corner, so that's okay.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: And you love the way he plays.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_02: Benford hasn't played well for two years.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: Safeties are awful.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_02: Let's call it what it is.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_02: I've said that about Bishop last year.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: He lucked into some stuff.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Not the guy.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: Linebackers.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: Really?
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're down on Cole Bishop?
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was down on Cole Bishop.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: I told you last year, the whole pod, I never was a Bishop guy.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: He's a linebacker.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't have a true position.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: He's too tall.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_02: He's not a safety.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're just racist, Jim.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_01: You don't like whites in safety, clearly.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_02: Gets exposed.
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's just not a
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: fit right now.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's just not fits right.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's not lining up.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_02: The D-line's playing hard.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they are reckless playing hard.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, they're fighting.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: The rest of that defense, oof.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's kind of like the strength of the defense just flipped.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sean McDermott's defenses, he couldn't really do much with all these top picks on the D-line.
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: But on the back end, Jordan Poyer, Micah Hyde, basically had this telepathic connection.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_01: They knew where each other were going to be in this scheme.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: They were able to limit big plays, keep it all in front of them, all of that.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_01: But they just weren't getting relentless pressure where Jim Leonard's scheme,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: it's generated that.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_01: Deion Walker's a freak.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: Dwayne Carter's played well.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: Bradley Chubb had a nice battle with Will Campbell in this game.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: But, yeah,
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: you've got holes in the secondary,
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_01: and I don't really know how you fix this on the fly.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_01: They're bringing in guys on their practice squad.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: You can do that.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's patchwork time.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: There's some players' auditions.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Yep, patchwork time.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: We've all been there in personnel departments.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: You just start bringing it.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's your jersey swapping, basically.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're just trying to hit on something.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: They're all kind of the same, though.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: You're just jersey swapping.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: It is so important.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: Pass rushers, that's everything.
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you have to have two great communicators on defense, linebacker safety.
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_02: They have to be great communicators.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_02: Those are the great defenses I've always been a part of.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_02: We had Vilma and Darren Sharper and Roman Harper with the Saints.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, what else do you want?
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's with Drew Brees at quarterback.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: See what I'm saying?
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_02: That's Super Bowl level.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_02: This is some Mickey Mouse stuff going on right now in defense, linebacker safeties.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_02: These guys aren't.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_02: The D-line's giving them everything they've got, but they're getting exposed on the back end.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_02: Those rankings are what they are.
• 44:59
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not making it up.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: Those are in the 20s, mid-20s.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think you just have to embrace the feast or famine philosophy.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: You brought it up before they played one game.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: You're going to be giving up plays.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: That's what you're going to be in.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to have games where you give up 300 yards passing.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_01: You just hope you create two or three turnovers.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, that's a great point.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe Jim Leonard just has to lean harder into that with how he calls a game.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have to go full Brian Flores inventing stuff on the fly
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: and vacating receivers and backs, whatever.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to take chances.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_01: And the good thing is you do have Josh Allen on the other side.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: My one thought on Josh Allen is I love the Brett Favre comparison
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: because we saw it right to the end in January of these playoff games.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't something that he just fixed.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, we did this years ago, though.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, to the extreme, you had the sixth interception game against the Rams.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, the fourth and 26 game,
• 46:08
  SPEAKER_01: you stopped the Eagles on fourth and 26 or you just – Run the ball
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: if you're Mike Sherman to Amon Green or Najee Davenport on fourth and one.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_01: Either way, it went to overtime and Favre threw a terrible interception in that game.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think he had four picks in the wild card against the Vikings the year after that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Then they hire Mike McCarthy.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: They go 13-3 in year two with him.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_01: You're hosting the NFC Championship game.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: They get to overtime.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Corey Webster interception.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: Gets traded to the Jets, tears his bicep when they're 8-3, and then he gets to the Vikings.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he's unbelievable.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_01: That might have been the best year of his career, whatever the numbers tell you.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_01: For Favre to do at, was he 38, 39?
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_01: Then what happened?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: They played your Saints at the Superdome.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_01: I say it all the time.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: And he throws it across his body to Tracy Porter.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it's tough,
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_01: though, because then on the flip side, all of the best Brett Favre moments, he's...
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: He's gunslinging, for the lack of a better term, right?
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: He is just taking chances.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_01: And Josh Allen told me this offseason he's not going to change the way he plays.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: Shouldn't.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_01: He wants to play football, play quarterback this way as long as he possibly can.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I love that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a great thing.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: If you try to be a lesser version of yourself and throttle down,
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_01: you're not going to get to a Super Bowl.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to win it.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that we talked about it last week, right?
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: There have been times,
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: seasons past, where he's maybe a handoff machine for a little bit too long.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_01: So Joe Brady's in a tough position because he wants to unleash his quarterback
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: in ways and empower his quarterback.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't view his quarterback as a quote-unquote burden like the previous head coach did.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Not my words.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_01: People high up in that building.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: That relationship.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't great.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_01: This relationship is.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: So I get Joe Brady not just going up to the microphone and mother effing Josh Allen
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: for a boneheaded mistake.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like what's that going to accomplish?
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_01: But look, behind the scenes, he's going to get on him.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about this exact scenario.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, there's going to be times on the sideline where we're going to yell at each other.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of times we don't agree.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't change how we feel about one another.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_01: We both set a level of accountability to one another.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: There's a standard of how it should look.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: As long as we both can take the blame and we're not pointing the fingers
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_01: at one another, we're good to go.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_01: I've made bad calls.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: He's made right.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've made calls.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: He's gotten to the wrong play.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: He'll own it.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_01: I own it.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we move on to the next play.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_01: Brady has said repeatedly at press conferences,
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_01: right or wrong, maybe he should Call players out.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: He's just, he's not going to do it.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: He doesn't see the benefit in publicly reprimanding his players.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Zero, zero.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: Conversely, Mike Vrabel was criticizing Drake May on WEEI radio last week.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's different ways to go about it.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's not Brady.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: I do think though,
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: behind the scenes,
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: that even though he's 36, Allen's 30, there's not this big age, big age gap.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's going to just let Josh Allen get away with murder.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to correct this stuff.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: But what does it accomplish to stand at the microphone through gritted teeth
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: and shit on your quarterback who keeps everybody employed and is
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: the most important athlete in Buffalo sports history, arguably?
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_02: No doubt.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, they're a contender year and year out because of Josh Allen.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, that was an awful mistake.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_01: He made a dude miss.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_01: He chucked it deep, maybe in his head.
• 49:51
  SPEAKER_01: He thought it was a Keon Coleman was open.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: Are we allowed to say his name on this podcast?
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think so.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: After that game, we can,
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: we can talk about Keon Coleman,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: but yeah, I don't think that Joe Brady, I think he's correct in this.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see him, you know, putting Josh Allen in detention and one bills drive for that mistake.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_01: And making him right on a chalkboard,
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: I will not throw it into double coverage 20 times in a row.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_01: That is not the way they're going to run business.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's right.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think if you're going to win in January, you need Josh Allen in full.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_01: And that's the collateral damage, what you saw at the end of the Patriots game.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to happen.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_02: No, as well said, nothing needs to change with Josh Allen.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Once again, like we said, just hone it in again.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_02: Just be aware.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Be aware.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that's all you have to do with the talent.
• 50:47
  SPEAKER_02: But he's not an issue.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Now, Keon Coleman, this is what we talked about, a jump ball receiver.
• 50:55
  SPEAKER_02: You can draft a jump.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_02: We always said this.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_02: It was not his fault where he was drafted.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_02: So now, don't worry about once he's on your team, don't worry about where he was drafted.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_02: Figure out how to use him to his talents.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_02: I'm going to give you a great example of this with the Saints when I worked there.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: A player that I was scouted in the Southeast, Robert Meacham from Tennessee.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_02: We took it in the first round.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_02: His route running and hands, to be honest with you, weren't what we thought.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_02: They were a step off.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: They were just, he needed more work.
• 51:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was just a step off.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_02: And he never was natural running routes and just strong hands.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: I give him about an eight and a half out of 10.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_02: But what he was, was he was big and he was fast.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_02: And a playmaker.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_02: Dominated the SEC.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_02: So Coach Payton was like, the heck, let's just use him.
• 51:45
  SPEAKER_02: We're going to take the top off.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_02: So the year we won the Super Bowl,
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_02: if you look, who led our teams in touchdowns that year was Robert Meacham.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's my point.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_02: Once he's on your team, don't worry about it.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_02: Use him to his talents.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_02: Now, that ball he went, Keon Coleman went and tipped and went and got, that was special.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was a big boy.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_02: That was awesome.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_02: Like, that was just great concentration, his body control, everything.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_02: So, hey, just use him to his skill.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Don't ask him to be a route runner.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_02: Don't ask him to try to do things in space.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_02: Let him be a big man.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_01: I can't believe the Kansas City Chiefs let the Bills get their hands on Keon Coleman
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_01: and Dwayne Carter.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: How do they allow that to happen?
• 52:31
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that was a narrative.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: Pet peeve of mine when I'm not railing against Benny Mardone songs from the 1980s.
• 53:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think Jim Nance was on the call, right?
• 53:07
  SPEAKER_01: The same Jim Nance who's giving out his tie to basketball players
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: after their championship games.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: Wasn't that the guy for Villanova who gave him his tie?
• 53:16
  SPEAKER_01: Some of these guys are self-righteous.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a break.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: So in the moment, Jim Nance is, oh, no, turn the camera away.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: Don't show that.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was something like that.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Look, if viewers want to watch it, just let the viewers watch it.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: If they see it and they don't like what they see, the viewer can walk into
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_01: the other room.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: This need as the play-by-play man to serve as the ultimate arbiter of the entire broadcast.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_01: We're watching football.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: We know there's going to be injuries.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_01: Hell, it seems like every other game,
• 53:51
  SPEAKER_01: somebody's getting taken off on a stretcher, ambulances, concussions.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_01: And players will even tell you those compound fractures,
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_01: they don't They don't hurt nearly as much as it seems when it's a clean break.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's never happened to me, so I guess I can't speak from experience.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: But there are injuries that hurt.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like Tony Pollard.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: We sat down in Nashville.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: That happened to him in a playoff game.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_01: It was a hip drop tackle.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's when they put the rule in after this.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was Jimmy Ward for San Francisco, and he was with Dallas at the time.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's ugly, right?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: Like the bone breaks.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: But then he had like just a high ankle sprain a year or two later.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: He said that shit hurt a lot more than the compound fracture.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_01: So come on, Jim, Nance, don't tell us what we can and can't see.
• 54:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me make that decision.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: No, I'm with you on that.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I've heard that before too.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: It never happened to me either.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_02: But I've heard that from other,
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_02: if it went to a clean break or however they say it, it almost doesn't.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_02: He looks at it.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_02: He knew something was wrong, but it's like he looked down and had to see it to understand.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, he was going to get up to celebrate, or he tried to.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it was Creed Humphrey.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: One of his teammates came over to help him and celebrate, and he points down at his ankle.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: The teammate just turns away.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: It isn't pretty to look at.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_01: I will admit that, but let's...
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_01: Can we just be honest about – I mean, the thing is the NFL can't be honest with itself.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_01: I freaking love Chris Nowinski, you know, at the Boston University CTE Center.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_01: Talked to him a bunch.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's at the forefront of all things, CTE, concussions.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_01: He was on Pablo Torres' podcast, Pablo Finds Out, and they were talking about the Guardian Caps.
• 55:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I love – you know, he's looked at studies.
• 55:50
  SPEAKER_01: He knows this stuff better than anybody.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_01: And called it virtue signaling.
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_01: It really doesn't do much.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like vindication because I can't get chapter one of League of Denial out of my head.
• 56:03
  SPEAKER_01: Where the analogy of a woodpecker.
• 56:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's so true.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like a woodpecker can bang its head against a tree because the way its brain is in
• 56:13
  SPEAKER_01: the skull, it can withstand that pounding.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_01: Like nature, evolution, Darwinism, whatever.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_01: Science.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_03: Mm-hmm.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_01: The brain is inside the skull.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_01: The helmet over top of it all isn't going to stop it from doing this.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to jiggle around.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: So we can put these Martian-like guardian caps on,
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: and these companies can make all sorts of money,
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: and the NFL can feel good about itself and say, oh,
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: we're doing this and we're doing that,
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_01: when at the end of the day, it's really not doing much at all.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_02: I saw that Pablo.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't listen to that one yet.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to listen to that.
• 56:52
  SPEAKER_02: I was hoping,
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_02: I was kind of hoping, I mean,
• 56:54
  SPEAKER_02: I know what I was going to talk about,
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_02: but I was hoping that it did do good, but it doesn't surprise me.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_02: It's sport is violent.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_02: What else do you want to say?
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_02: We've talked about it forever.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_02: Just own it.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's Chris's point.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_02: Just own it.
• 57:11
  SPEAKER_01: Just own it.
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like Chris Nowinski is out there leading the war against football.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'll say it again.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: He loves football.
• 57:19
  SPEAKER_01: We all love football.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: Let's be honest with what we are watching.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_02: Vince McMahon, this thing.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_02: Let these guys roid up,
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_02: pump up,
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_02: whatever you need to do to perform and look like an entertainer
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_02: because that's what you're doing.
• 57:36
  SPEAKER_02: You're entertaining and whatever you need to take to get your body right
• 57:39
  SPEAKER_02: and do whatever you need to do to get through this.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_02: It is a violent, crazy sport.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_02: Just like pro wrestling.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: Can I make a suggestion for you and Doug Whaley and Russ Brandon and the whole UFL gang?
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't you implement that for 2027?
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Just make steroids legal.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_01: Let's see where the UFL goes with this all.
• 58:01
  SPEAKER_01: Test driver.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do people even hear about
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_02: steroids anymore?
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_02: I don't feel like.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_01: Final thoughts on the bills, though.
• 58:12
  SPEAKER_01: They're going out to L.A. Monday night.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_01: Underdogs.
• 58:15
  SPEAKER_01: Very rarely.
• 58:17
  SPEAKER_01: Very rarely.
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: Are the Buffalo Bills underdogs with Josh Allen at quarterback.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_01: But very rarely do they have back-to-back clunkers.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_01: I think the offense is going to be humming on that fast track.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_01: There's no such thing as a Rams home field advantage.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_01: No DJ Moore would be difficult.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_02: They got to get
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: Cook going.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think Cook had like 18 yards rushing deep into the second half, it seemed.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: It took him a while.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't know.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: I think the offense bounces back.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think they win.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: What was the DJ more?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_02: I forgot to ask you that.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_02: What is his injury?
• 58:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what are they saying?
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_02: Is it like just, oh, you don't have to.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't know if you knew.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's okay.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: It's so early.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's not the stinger from before.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 59:02
  SPEAKER_02: Shoulder.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: Shoulder.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_02: But so he's like, is it dated?
• 59:05
  SPEAKER_02: He's just, he, yeah, they don't know yet.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_02: Cause I do feel like that's a
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_01: record in this.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like he's, I feel like he's pretty key.
• 59:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um, because I, yeah.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: When he's been healthy, he's been legit.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_02: That's been Josh's guy, no doubt.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_02: But you're right.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_02: I think the Bills come out offensively.
• 59:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be a heavy dose.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_02: We're definitely going to be a heavy dose of Kincaid.
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_01: He can't go through a game with one target.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: They've got to get hit the ball.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_01: 100% agree.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_02: And they know that.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_02: So we'll see that.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: No, I agree.
• 59:41
  SPEAKER_02: It's going to be a firework game.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: Stafford can't move.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_02: Bills pass rush is what they do best.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_02: So maybe the defense can get some plays, but.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's a firework game, like we said.
• 59:51
  SPEAKER_02: This is what the Bills are going to be in.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_02: Fourth quarter shootouts.
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's a difficult way to make a living.
• 1:00:02
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point, there isn't a savior around the corner.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like you're Green Bay and you've got Micah Parsons coming back at some point.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_01: Even the Lions, I mean, their defense has been an abomination.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, you get Brian Branch, Kirby Joseph, you would assume.
• 1:00:19
  SPEAKER_01: That they help.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_01: The Bills are who they are defensively, so what would you do on defense, Jim?
• 1:00:27
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a player off the street, or is there something schematically?
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just a matter of going down swinging every game?
• 1:00:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm being a little...
• 1:00:40
  SPEAKER_02: These players are...
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_02: I'm maybe a little harsh on players, but these guys are good football players.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean...
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_02: You have to keep working with them,
• 1:00:48
  SPEAKER_02: keep trying to get the most out of them because you've invested in them.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_02: They are the best that's out there.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you might find something right now coming in to help you,
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_02: but I doubt a huge difference maker.
• 1:00:59
  SPEAKER_02: The linebackers, I'm hard on them because they're little, but they play hard.
• 1:01:04
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they had a good game against the Chargers.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_02: They showed up.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_02: They showed up.
• 1:01:08
  SPEAKER_01: The defense won that game.
• 1:01:12
  SPEAKER_01: Benford might not be a scheme fit,
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_01: but he's a legitimate starting quarterback in the NFL who can make plays.
• 1:01:19
  SPEAKER_02: He's a good player now.
• 1:01:20
  SPEAKER_02: He's not a difference maker.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_01: Igbunosin, I like his fight.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_02: I like his fight, too.
• 1:01:27
  SPEAKER_02: I like the way he looks.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: My question, really, more than anything, is with Hairston.
• 1:01:34
  SPEAKER_02: He's replaceable, though.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: He's a first-round pick.
• 1:01:38
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not saying they didn't whiff on, but he's giving you nothing, so he's replaceable.
• 1:01:43
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_02: Whoever you put in is going to do the same.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_02: He's done nothing.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_02: Bad pick.
• 1:01:49
  SPEAKER_02: But you can find somebody for a player that's giving you nothing.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_02: Just anybody will be an upgrade.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if it's worth a deadline move, one of these teams that's spiraling if they trade.
• 1:02:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good call.
• 1:02:06
  SPEAKER_01: You don't want to go full Saul Skarner.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_01: That hasn't really worked out for Indianapolis, so you got to be careful.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yikes.
• 1:02:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: I know we didn't get into the Packers too much,
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_01: but at the time, Bob Pod with McGinn, we previewed everything Packers-Bears.
• 1:02:24
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a thought on Matt LaFleur, where they're at, into Packers-Bears, though.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_02: You covered it, but I was last year.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm not that fire guy, but last year after that loss, that was your grounds.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_02: I thought they should have done it.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_02: Here you are.
• 1:02:41
  SPEAKER_02: So once again, though, you're not stuck with him.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's a hard decision.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like,
• 1:02:48
  SPEAKER_02: and you guys probably know,
• 1:02:49
  SPEAKER_02: you may have talked about Green Bay,
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: the structure, I would think GM, Goody, I think he's fine, right?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_02: He's not going anywhere.
• 1:02:59
  SPEAKER_01: They all report to Ed Policy separately.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: All separate, okay.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Head coach Matt LaFleur, contract guy Russ Ball.
• 1:03:06
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so Policy could do a complete if he wanted to, but that won't happen.
• 1:03:11
  SPEAKER_02: They have too much talent.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: Details of their contracts have been really kept under wraps too.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: Too much talent.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_01: There's coaches on staff who have no clue really what LaFleur's deal is.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: So what does that mean?
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: You
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: know what?
• 1:03:25
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, These teams make so much money.
• 1:03:30
  SPEAKER_01: If their season goes off the rails and you've got whatever it is,
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: a half billion shareholders pissed off.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Remember, it's different in Green Bay.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't have an owner.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_02: True.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: And that's a great thing.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_01: You can exact patience where other teams are impatient.
• 1:03:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's how Aaron Rodgers...
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Love.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_01: Aaron Rodgers sits for three years, and then Jordan Love sits for three years.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't happen anywhere else, as Andrew Brandt said on the pod.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_01: It only happens in Green Bay because you don't have an owner.
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_01: And like Andrew Brandt said, he had full autonomy on his contracts.
• 1:04:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody would tell him he was doing a good job or a bad job for any contract.
• 1:04:08
  SPEAKER_01: He'd do whatever he wanted.
• 1:04:09
  SPEAKER_01: The GM does what he wants.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_01: The coach does what he wants.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's great.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_01: So where does that force of pressure come from?
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from the fans.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_01: In Green Bay more than any market,
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_01: those boos on Thursday night against the Falcons,
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: it had to have had older generations of Packer fans thinking of the dark ages,
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_01: pre-92,
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: what life was like between Lombardi and Holmgren,
• 1:04:37
  SPEAKER_01: 29 years of just wandering aimlessly.
• 1:04:43
  SPEAKER_01: This game, it's going to boomerang the Packers one direction or the other.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a ton of injuries.
• 1:04:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's no excuse.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to figure it out.
• 1:04:53
  SPEAKER_01: They figured out the offensive line against Tampa Bay, right?
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: It looked better.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: It looks competent.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've got the bears.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got Ben Johnson swaggering in.
• 1:05:03
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, 17 points though against Tampa 17.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_01: I mean 17.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_01: No, I gotcha.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's all.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm with you.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like they are, it's, they are so beat up and that is not an excuse.
• 1:05:19
  SPEAKER_02: Um, But at this point,
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_02: with the lack of the two of their two big dogs in Jacobs and Parsons,
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it adds up.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_02: Certainly adds up.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_02: But I agree.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_02: This is their statement type game this season.
• 1:05:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like the Bears are going to get a Jordan Love Super Bowl type effort, I would think.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: Who do you like in that game?
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Who do you like in that game?
• 1:05:45
  SPEAKER_02: Chicago Green Bay.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: I'll get to that.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'll filibuster my way there.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you called that Rams game.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_02: You felt good about the Bills beating the Rams.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I can't see two losses in a row for this quarterback.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_01: The thing with Matt LaFleur,
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_01: even his critics in the building will say he's brilliant with X's and O's and
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_01: the way he can diagram plays, design route concepts, his development of Jordan Love.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Shanahan Tree, McVay, Cutting Edge.
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Go back and watch the wild card game.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: It is the perfect microcosm for all things Matt LaFleur.
• 1:06:29
  SPEAKER_01: They get this 21-3 lead.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_01: Really should have been 28-3.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: That play, the deep shot to Christian Watson up the right sideline was a little overthrown.
• 1:06:38
  SPEAKER_01: He also had Jaden Reed open over the middle.
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: Matthew Golden cooked his corner back on the other side.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of good there.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: And you could even argue the fact that he's such a hard ass on his assistants is a good thing.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_01: It does work for some teams.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_01: Not exactly the best workplace environment.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: I talked to these assistants myself.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_01: He can create problems maybe where problems don't exist.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_01: But you can make the argument that that Harden's a team and Callis is a team.
• 1:07:07
  SPEAKER_01: And post Rodgers into Jordan Love,
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: he took that similar approach with his players
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: because you don't know what you don't know.
• 1:07:13
  SPEAKER_01: He got a bunch of 22, 23, 24-year-olds.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: He could harden them.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_01: He could get on them in a way he couldn't.
• 1:07:20
  SPEAKER_01: Rodgers and Devontae Adams and Mercedes Lewis and Aaron Jones, those guys.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yet something's missing.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it goes back to last season.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_01: They lost so many games.
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_01: Five games when they had a nine-plus point lead.
• 1:07:37
  SPEAKER_01: Two or three games when they didn't even punt.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: If you were to take the Browns' loss,
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: They had a 99% chance of winning that when they were up by 10 late.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: The Bears won when they were up 16-6 late, and then they gave up the onside kick.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: And then the Bears playoff game, and then the Vikings game in week one.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: Our good buddy Rob Reichel, former co-worker of the Journal Sentinel, he crunched the numbers.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_01: For a team to lose all those games where the percentages were at different moments,
• 1:08:07
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was 99%, 96%, 99%, 90%, whatever analytics you're looking at.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: The odds of losing all four of those games is one in 2.5 million.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly,
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: it's worse than that because the math doesn't take into account whatever part is
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: in these guys' brains of, oh, shit, here we go again in the fourth quarter.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the human element of this all.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: There's something broken psychologically where a play goes wrong.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: You don't get the fourth and one against Minnesota,
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: and then it snowballs, and you give up 29 answered points.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or even the Atlanta game.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: They missed a fourth down and then they gave up the long drive.
• 1:08:47
  SPEAKER_01: There's something off and it leads back to coaching.
• 1:08:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the person that has their fingerprints all over the operation.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_01: So in this two-part series,
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_01: if people want to check it out, that's kind of at the heart of it all.
• 1:08:59
  SPEAKER_01: Figuring out why is this happening, right?
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_01: How does this happen?
• 1:09:04
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's not math.
• 1:09:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's not science.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know what it is.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's something between the ears.
• 1:09:10
  SPEAKER_01: There's something in a guy's chest.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think they're, my opinion, I think they are drafting the right kind of player.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I pin more of the blame on the head coach.
• 1:09:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that Brian Kutikens is looking for nasty dudes, tough,
• 1:09:25
  SPEAKER_01: tough-ass dudes like Evan Williams,
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: Javon Bullard,
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: Edger Cooper,
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_01: who's out with an Achilles now,
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_01: Devontae Wyatt,
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: Sean Ryan over on the other side of the ball, Tucker Craft at tight end.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_01: You've got some physically tough, mentally tough specimens.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_01: But coaching, coaching can be soft.
• 1:09:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you're telling your guys, look, let the other team screw up.
• 1:09:48
  SPEAKER_01: If they two-hand shove your quarterback in the head, don't do anything.
• 1:09:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't get a 15-yard penalty.
• 1:09:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's why I talked to TJ Lang for this.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, F that.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_01: You need to send a message because Ben Johnson and the Bears,
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: these other teams, they're going to see that on film.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to know if you bully the Packers, they're not going to stand up.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_01: That's coaching.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a massive moment for Matt LaFleur.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_01: Who do I think will win?
• 1:10:14
  SPEAKER_01: I agree with Bob.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_01: He called it a pick-em.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you stop this Bears rushing attack, but Green Bay's at home.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: They've got their backs against the wall in a sense, and they get the pressure.
• 1:10:27
  SPEAKER_01: They're pissed off with how last season ended.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to count for something.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_01: I like love against that secondary.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_01: the Bears haven't faced a passer This season,
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_01: like Jordan Love,
• 1:10:41
  SPEAKER_01: since Bryce Young and the opener, and Bryce Young had himself a day.
• 1:10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it comes down to the wire.
• 1:10:48
  SPEAKER_01: I know it's a cop-out, but I think it's another last drive game.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_01: All three last year were last drive games.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's not a cop-out.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_02: Not that.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good game for Green Bay to kind of,
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_02: to your point,
• 1:11:04
  SPEAKER_02: if Love is the right quarterback, This defense is beatable for Chicago.
• 1:11:10
  SPEAKER_02: They played well this year, but we know that they are susceptible.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's a game you have to
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: win against a backup quarterback.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you on that.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_01: You can't lose to Tyson Bajan at home if you're Green Bay.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you on that.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: All that.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_02: LaFleur, Jordan Love, step up, beat the backup quarterback.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_02: Agree.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_01: Which they couldn't against Carson Wentz.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_01: And they nearly lost to UDFA rookie Jalen Daniels.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we shall see.
• 1:11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be a fun week of football start to finish.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much,
• 1:11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Jim Onis, for an hour plus here of some good football talk and into the night.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_01: Damn it, I shouldn't have brought it up.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_01: Now it's going to get stuck in my head again.
• 1:11:55
  SPEAKER_01: Catch you next time.
• 1:12:10
  [music]