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Transcript

with MFS's Lucy Davidson · Two in Twenty

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to another episode of Two in Twenty.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: My name is Twink Field.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: I am the host of these conversations with leaders in our industry who have a lot to share around their marketing careers.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And today we are talking to Lucy Davidson.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: She is the co-lead of the global marketing team at MFS, and we talk about everything from her early career, getting into marketing, as well as how now she coordinates global integrated campaigns, as well as touching on the 100-year history of MFS.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: Lots in there, so over to my conversation with her.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_01: Lucy, welcome.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: It is great to have the time to talk to you today.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Ahead of jumping into some questions, maybe you could just give everybody a bit of a flavor of your career, an overview of what you've done and the steps of your career, and then we'll get into some questions.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, happy to.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I spent quite a few years within public relations and communications working in agencies and in-house, worked for Deutsche Bank for a while, and then into Leg Mason and Barclays and State Street.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's when I made the kind of transition into marketing, which was interesting because I didn't think that was the path for me.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I was very hesitant towards making that move from a kind of media PR comms background into more of a focused marketing role.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, when I look back, I'm really glad that I did it.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really glad that the manager I had at the time encouraged me to do it.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's opened up a lot more doors and um a little bit scary at the time because I really didn't know what I was doing.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think you know there's lots of transferable skills, and if you know your industry and you know your clients, then you can make the move.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting, why do you think you were hesitant?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I was sort of conscious of people maybe going through their careers and listening and thinking about maybe how they broaden or change track or what have you.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: What were the factors that made you hesitant?
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think I didn't fully appreciate everything that went on within the marketing team.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So even though we partnered and we worked together on campaigns and content, um, I didn't really understand all of the nuts and bolts.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so from the outside, I thought, oh, I don't want to do brochures and fact sheets, that's not for me.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then when I started to get onto the bonnet and, you know, kind of move closer to the team and moved into that role, I realized there was a whole lot more in there.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And actually it was really interesting and exciting.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, from the outside, it looked like it was kind of brochures, webinars, and fact sheets.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: And then to some people, I think still in our organizations, they still look in from the outside and think it's still that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that education is still going on, sadly, that you know, marketing can be that strategic.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think has been this kind of biggest adaptation that you've had to do, either kind of going through seniority levels or between the different businesses that you mentioned, like culturally, or even just that kind of more expanded kind of marketing role?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think have been the kind of biggest changes that you've had to kind of adapt to?
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: The biggest change for me, and this has happened twice now, is going from peer to manager.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that is really challenging.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when you are part of the team and suddenly you're now leading the team, that really kind of redefines some of those relationships.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Some people are much more open to it than others.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: How do you then lead the team and maybe let go of some of the day-to-day work that you used to be so involved with and proud of to allow others to do that?
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, realizing now that your role is not to, you know, deliver on the work and trust in other people to do that.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think that's probably the been the toughest move.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: It has happened twice now, so I have a little bit of experience when it happens.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I think the the learning for me has been to approach that with just honesty and openness and empathy, and just have really honest conversations with those people in the team.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's definitely been the biggest shift.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Change in industries and roles and things, I think I feel like had been easier, but that move from peer to manager is definitely um.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Something I was told once was about having a career where you're sort of T-shaped, because I think you know, when you're going through your career and you're being you're kind of a specialist that kind of is going deep and sort of through that sort of vertical, and then when you become that manager, you need to be more of the horizont across all the different specialisms and trying to get used to the fact that you're not necessarily the expert in all the things that you need to bring together to be a really good manager.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I was teeing up the next question in my mind, which is I think you're responsible for kind of integrated global campaigns at MFS.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess part of that is like you need to really make sure everybody is bringing their expertise in their deep verticals, and you're kind of across the top of that, bringing that all together.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: So I just wonder what are your principles and priorities for how you really drive and deliver those global campaigns?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because it I think it can be a real challenge in the organizations.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's a good question.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: I I think there's a couple of things in here.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Recognising that you're not the expert in all of the different functions is one to get on top of early because you want to play the role with all the teams, but actually, I've never been a designer, I've never sat within a creative team, I might lead creative teams, but I don't have that deep expertise.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I think pulling together that campaign team quickly and having the right people at the table, recognising that everybody's bringing their expertise to the table and then allowing them to do that, I think is really important.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: So the collaborative kind of approach with that group and making sure that those people feel accountable and responsible for delivery on their own kind of functions.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think as well with the global campaigns, and this has definitely changed over time, I've moved from you know where we used to be to where we are now, is that yes, having that one big message or that one big idea is great, but and you want consistency, however, you've got to make sure that resonates across the different markets.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: So a one size fits all doesn't really exist.
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so how do you take that big idea and then translate it across different regions or different audiences?
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: And that's really tough.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, the the global to local can be really hard.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: But I think if you have the right people at the table to the beginning at the beginning from the global team and the local um teams, then you will get there.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing I would say about the global campaigns that people underappreciate is that it is never perfect, and you've got to be really nimble and adapt quickly when things aren't working.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's really hard because everybody wants their work to be amazing and everything to go really well, and you almost need the kind of pre-mortem on what are the things that could go wrong.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: Italian translation doesn't make sense, so you're back at you know, back reworking that, or the landing page in Spain, you know, doesn't function properly.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: So I just think the adaptability, but I think when you have the right people at the table to execute, then it can go well.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it's sort of there's a culture requirement there, isn't there, about sort of how to make sure that you're adapting and sort of making sure you're clear on what the signals are that mean either you need to change something or or you kind of leave it in market because there's always a sort of what do we make sure we protect and let work through versus what do we continue to iterate, and it can be to your point like being super clear before you even start what the right you know what the signals are for doing either of those things.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: We have so much data now trying to kind of synthesize on on which data is going to be important and which you know we're gonna ignore.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, exactly.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, maybe just on that, the playing back of these types of campaigns and demonstrating the impact and um the importance of it.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: How do you how are you presenting and what are you presenting to your different stakeholders to show the meaningful influence of those campaigns?
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because again, it can be you know depends on on who you're engaging with as to kind of what you're showing and surfacing, presumably, depending on the stakeholder.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I have spent quite a lot of time thinking and talking about this recently because uh the shift from the kind of marketing, I'm gonna say kind of vality metrics um needs to happen.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: When I look back, some of the things that we were measuring really weren't connected to the business objectives, they were really kind of marketing metrics.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: So the kind of evolution I think we're going through now is simplifying those KPIs and those metrics, those data points, and making sure that those data points are absolutely as tight as possible to those kind of measurable like business outcomes that we're trying to get after with the work we do.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you can't have kind of marketing metrics here and then business things over here, and you know, sometimes they meet and sometimes they don't.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's where marketing teams can fall down in demonstrating the impact of their work.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that alignment um with the business, whether that's around growth or retention, um, is really important.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_00: And where where do these things kind of come together?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: So lots of thought and work being done there because I think that we have in the past been a little bit misaligned, and it's time to just bring everything together.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: So there's really shared KPIs now between all of the teams.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so real alignment on what's meaningful and that kind of commercial resonance.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, amazing.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: Could you give us an example?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm conscious of um your hundred years history and the big campaign that just you know, for MFS, it's just been a big exercise across the business.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: It'd be lovely to kind of hear how that was worked through, and and I'm just conscious of also to your point around a really global campaign, but maybe the kind of the hundred years history is better known and understood in the US market, and then how does that then really translate in terms of heritage to other regions and other markets?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you find that that balance?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, the 100 years was a really big campaign for us, which started, I think the conversation actually started in 22, um, because we knew there was going to be a lot of work rolling into 2024, which was the actual 100 years anniversary.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, in the US, 100 years is quite a substantial amount of time.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, we invented the mutual fund in 1924, but when you come out of the US into some of the European private banks and other places, 100 years isn't actually that meaningful.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: So the question we asked ourselves is okay, this isn't really um, you know, a big number when you get outside the US 100 years, but what does 100 years of investing mean?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Active management, access to public markets for our clients.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And the kind of so what for us was around the lessons that we'd learned over those hundred years.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, what lessons had we learned as a firm, whether it's through world wars or the Great Depression or many different kinds of geopolitical crises and market cycles that we bring to work every day now and apply for clients and our investors and how we're continuing to learn.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it was less about the we're 100 years old and you know that's great.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's what have we learned over the hundred years by being that kind of pioneer in the industry and how are we kind of applying that now for clients?
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a it was a great year.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_00: We had really good activities with client engagement and also with employees, kind of bringing a lot of pride in the firm and connecting employees globally.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a really busy year, tons of stuff going on.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: We had like our largest client event, we had like our most engaged content, definitely a blur, like lots of fun.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: And also what was really good is that um the team spent a lot of time pulling together a kind of archive of the history of MFS.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it sounds like to your point, you know, you kind of made it resonant with different markets, but also different audiences based on sort of what those lessons were and how that kind of was relatable to the kind of different clients you were engaging with in different regions.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I don't know that everybody always does that level of tailoring to get the kind of the results.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: So what does I don't imagine you're you've got a break.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's um what does sort of year 101 look like in terms of your priorities and what's next?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, what's on the on the roadmap for for you guys and what you're thinking about?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, probably similar to what other firms are thinking about is the big kind of question mark around AI and what role that plays in the kind of future of the marketing group.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: What we're trying to do actually is not go down the wild goose chase of AI for the sake of AI.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: We want to make sure that we have our priorities and then we think about where AI can enable what we're trying to do as a group.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: So whether that's around personalization or you know, increased productivity, where might AI enable that and play a role?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then really trying to look at the use cases behind that, what the impact might be, and how we can measure the success of that.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So very conscious that there's a lot of things being thrown at the teams.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I think taking them not a step back, but having a more structured approach to this, I think will move us faster to where we want to be.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: So when I think about AI, I think about it in like three buckets within the teams.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think about the technology and tools, but then you really need to have the process behind that to make sure it works.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously the people, do the people have the right training?
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: Are they being empowered?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: And um, do they know how to use it?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: So we're trying to think about that as a big initiative for next year and kind of build that roadmap, um, you know, small wins out the gate and then maybe bigger projects and kind of linked into that is something that is not necessarily new, but definitely ongoing around our kind of digital fluency.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: So bringing that digital first mindset.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we're in a relationship business and that hasn't changed.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: But how do we continue the relationship when there isn't somebody, you know, a salesperson or um an RM in the room?
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, how do you continue that relationship through some of the digital outreach and digital touch points to kind of reinforce that trust and relationship that's been built on a kind of one-to-one basis?
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, two things there, um, big things, um, on top of obviously everything else that we do, but I think really important.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: I think the landscape for marketing is changing and making sure that we are kind of not ahead of that, but that we are really thinking about it intentionally and thinking about how we bring it into the group um to help us be um better and more productive and and actually just more focused on what our clients need as well.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Super interesting because on the AI front, certainly some of the findings we've seen across the kind of global asset management community is that maybe the kind of the smaller players are obviously less kind of hindered by kind of big processes and that potentially, and able to be a bit more agile and experimental in lots of areas where they're kind of putting it in into practice.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: But to your point, kind of some of the kind of bigger business of real intentionality about where it can do kind of a lift and almost seeing some of the impact of that earlier than the kind of their peers, because it's got that real focus as to where it can play a play a significant role and have a sort of supporting role to the team.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because I guess your point, you know, conscious of all the asks on the team, and um it seems to only multiply as to opposed to um reduce.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm just conscious of with a kind of long runway of marketing asks, you know, I think often we we know marketing departments or kind of marketing heads find it really hard to say no to the different requirements from the business so they don't look like a a blocker.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: But do you see AI as part of the solution for being able to deliver across all of the all of the different requirements being asked of marketing?
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And how do you how do you manage that plethora of of requirements that only seem to grow?
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they definitely don't shrink.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um I do see I do see AI and the technology and tools we have as an enabler towards kind of achieving some of the goals that we have with the business.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I think partnership across the different functions that we work with, whether it's enablement or technology or product, and how we all kind of embrace some of the tools and technology to help us partner together to be um, you know, whether it's more efficient in the content creation process, because obviously there's multiple partners in there.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I do see that as a key part of it.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think going back to the kind of prioritization and the amount of kind of requests, I think having like the shared goals and shared roadmaps and shared priorities has to be um it's even more important now than I think it was, you know, a few years ago.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: And but back to your point, there's always things that come in.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so trying to have that maybe that 80-20 rule of 80% of the work is laddering up to our kind of objectives and you know, strategy, but you won't be able to get rid of that 20% which does come in and it's still really important.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's just a given if you're in marketing.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you're right.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_01: You can't be um can't anticipate everything, you know.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's uh it's a good good way of looking at it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so one thing, one question that we're asking everybody on this podcast and going forward is you know, what does success look like for marketing in financial services?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what would your view on that be?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think I said this before, really what we kind of sell in um financial services is trust.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we have products and and various other kind of um funds and things, but really at the end of the day, somebody, whether it's an institutional investor or an advisor or an end client, is trusting you to do what you said.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think success in marketing is how we reinforce that trust and credibility um at the very highest level.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then obviously as you come down the funnel, I think really driving engagement with our clients, but not engagement for the sake of it.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be qualified engagement, it really needs to be the audience, whether it's clients or prospects that um are most important to us, and looking at that kind of qualified engagement.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then one of the most important things that I see now is just absolutely critical is how marketing is helping to drive those business outcomes.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So if that's growth or retention, what role did marketing play in there?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I know it's you know notoriously quite difficult in our industry to be as you know cut and dry as if we were in, you know, fast-moving consumer gods, you know, somebody clicks and buys the toothpaste.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we we don't have a um have that clarity, but I do think that some of the work around modelling and some of the kind of attribution models and things that people are working on now is helping us get a little bit more direction on that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the more we can show the role that marketing plays um towards those business outcomes, you know, the the more credible the work that we do is.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And and we know it plays a role, but we need those data points to reinforce that.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: Brilliant.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: So build trust, drive engagement, and deliver the outcomes.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: Feel like the kind of key key things there.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_01: We're kind of coming to near the end, and I'm conscious always to try and finish with a final hurrah around tips and ideas for people.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Would you have any for listeners around you know how they think about their careers?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: I so I joined a career workshop about a week ago, so I was asked the same question, so I'm very well prepared for this one.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: So the first thing I'd say is be curious and stay curious.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think um asking questions and continuous learning will get you the experience faster than getting the experience.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that is critical in all walks of life, in all industries, whatever you're doing.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_00: I think build really genuine relationships.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: The network that you build throughout your career is as important as the skills that you have.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And um there are people now that I met really early on in my career, and we're all really genuine our roles, and now we're all in different places across the industry and still have those relationships.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I don't mean go to every conference and you know meet a thousand people.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's just genuine connections and relationships will kind of stand you well.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the third thing I'll say is just keep a sense of humour, be able to laugh at yourself and just bring that kind of positivity into the into the various situations you'll find yourself in.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that will not only stand you well, but I think people you know will will want to partner and work with you as well if you can just bring um bring bring a bring a little joke into the meeting because um there are there is stress, things are busy, um, and if you can just bring that positive mindset in, then um then you'll you'll do fine.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing, really succinct and clear.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Lucy.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's been really lovely chatting.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: I was thinking about how when we started to get to know each other, it's probably over a decade, most certainly over a decade ago now, and so maybe hopefully also living your advice as well in terms of us staying, you know, friends and kind of contact through through the industry.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: And so thank you so much for giving me your time today and everybody your your thoughts and experience.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: Lovely to talk to you.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.