Latest / Regina UNSCRIPTED / How the Rosary Helped Me Overcome Pornography | In Conversation with Joshua Charles (Eternal Christendom)

Transcript

How the Rosary Helped Me Overcome Pornography | In Conversation with Joshua Charles (Eternal Christendom) · Regina UNSCRIPTED

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: For a long time, like many men, I was addicted to pornography.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not proud of these things, obviously, I'm ashamed.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: But my pastor, who's also a convert from Protestantism, as I was coming into the church, he said, pray a daily rosary and that'll go away.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was very, very confident.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so starting January 1st, 2019, so about seven months or so, six and a half months before I came to the church.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: So essentially every day I've said a daily rosary.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: The sins have gone away.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: The sins have gone away.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I never, ever in a million years thought that would be possible.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_01: Hello and welcome to Regina Unscripted.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Catherine Bennett.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm Mark Lambert.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: And joining us this evening is our friend Joshua Charles, founder, and and I've forgotten I was going to say King.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Come on, founder and president.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: President.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: President.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's hilarious.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: Of eternal Christendom.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Joshua.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: You guys are two of my favorites across the pond, so it's great to be with you guys, especially on the on the new show.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's lovely of you to say so.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, thanks for being here.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: And we thought there will be a few people watching who who for them it may be their first first introduction to you.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh can you just give us a little background to your journey into the Catholic Church?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because you were uh Protestant before, what, was it 10 years ago?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Almost, yeah, it's it's crazy how fast it's gone.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: I started reading the The Fathers uh about nine years ago, and I came into the church in 2019, so July 13th, 2019.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_00: So it's been almost it's been over seven years now.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_00: So it went it went fast.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: But no, um, I basically break up my conversion into three phases.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: The first one was pre-church fathers, second one was church fathers leading to coming into the church, and the third one is the current one, which is ongoing and hopefully a daily conversion and staying faithful to the end, right?
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that uh, you know, as I say now, um, you know, as a Protestant, it's like, well, do you think I'm saved and am I saved and whatnot?
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now as a Catholic, I say, uh, I hope I am, but uh, I'm really ultimately and finally saved when our Lord Jesus Christ hopefully says to me, Well done, good and faithful servant.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's when I'm that's when I'm saved, definitively.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the first phase was essentially growing up in a um, I'd say largely non-denominational Protestant household.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: We um just kind of went wherever they took the Bible seriously, believed it was God's word, uh, weren't messing with moral issues like abortion and marriage, and where they had good community.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: We weren't particularly dogmatic beyond that, but I always loved the Bible.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: And frankly, I think the extent to which I love the Bible was a grace from God.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: It was, it was definitely more than most kids.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: It was the most in my family.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: So studied it all the time, was really into apologetics, read a lot of theology and whatnot.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but this first phase, it took, you know, probably 20 years or so.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: But I basically was realizing more and more, I wasn't thinking of it as a problem with Protestantism, but I was realizing that a lot of what I was learning didn't seem to be matching up with the Bible, whether it be, you know, faith alone, for example.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: If Paul really meant faith alone, we're saved by faith alone.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: There were various Protestant theologies that were very um, you know, common around me.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Once saved, always saved.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's the Calvinist version, which is perseverance of the saints, which is a bit deeper, I guess, but it's it's a functionally the same.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_00: And it just wasn't making sense.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It just wasn't making sense.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, also, just questions about how do we get this book?
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_00: How do we get this Bible?
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then another big issue was, you know, I'm very, very thankful for two great gifts I received as a Protestant.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_00: I always like to emphasize this because, you know, my comments about Protestantism should be always taken as precisely that a comment about an ism, not individual Protestants, many of whom I love and are dear friends and are still mentors of mine.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and many of them have become Catholic uh over the last almost nine, almost nine years now.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um, but uh but the key issue was uh I'm sorry, the two great gifts were belief that truth is real, it's absolute, it's not a matter of personal opinion, and two, that the Bible is God's word, inspired, inerrant, etc.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: So those two beliefs ultimately took me to the Catholic Church.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize it as clearly at the time, but looking back, I can see the pathway because I ran into a coherence problem.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if truth is real and the same for everybody, and if the Bible is God's word, um, and the final element was Jesus was very clear.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you love me, you'll obey my commandments.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to know what those commandments were, but I kept running into good faith, uh, virtuous, and educated people, living and dead, uh, among Protestants who were disagreeing about basically everything under the sun.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, you could find big groups largely agreeing on this or that, but they're disagreeing about the sacraments, how the churches govern, can you lose your salvation, all sorts of moral issues, particularly with marriage, divorce, remarriage, et cetera.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: So what's true?
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having good, uh virtuous, good faith, and educated people disagreeing about these things.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, as a young man, uh, we'll talk about the rosary a bit later.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think the rosary is one of the great weapons to fight impurity.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: So as a young man, you ask about issues related to impurity, and I was getting different answers from, again, very respected people on what when you're a man in your 20s in this era of history are kind of daily bread and butter issues.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're running into how do I love our Lord Jesus Christ when he says, if you love me, you'll obey my commandments.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm getting all sorts of different versions of what those commandments actually are.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: So this actually led me to, as a good Protestant, look at the Bible and be like, well, how did they resolve doctrinal disputes in the Bible?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, short version is it looked very Catholic.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't think of it at the time that way, but they had the Council of Jerusalem.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: And at the Council of Jerusalem, not only the apostles, but the presbyters they had begun to appoint gave a final decision on the circumcision.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have to follow the Mosaic law to become Catholic issue?
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I thought at the time just Christian.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: And uh they said no.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: And but the basis of their decision, I think it's Acts 15, 28, said it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: So they spoke with God's authority and their own.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and there's all sorts of papal implications.
• 6:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's all sorts of church fathers that talk about this.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't find that out till later.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: But I kept thinking to myself, we don't have a church that does that.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I read it very carefully because I thought, well, these are just the apostles.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's so it's, you know, they've got special authority, power, whatever.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't just the apostles, it was presbyters they had already begun to appoint.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: So, so think about the significance of this.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: You've got apostles who our Lord Jesus Christ ordained himself, right?
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so their authority is obvious.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then you've got these other guys that were not directly ordained by our Lord Jesus Christ.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: We would say they were, in a sense, through the sacrament of holy orders, but you know, they weren't personally ordained by our Lord Jesus Christ, and yet they are participating in this decision that appeals to their and God's authority.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then it was binding on all the churches, all the local churches.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Acts 16 is very clear when they deliver the letter of the council to all the churches, it was it was to be observed, right?
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was to be obeyed.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, in short, you know, studying the Council of Jerusalem, again, I wasn't going in a Catholic direction.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't even thinking Catholic Protestant at this point, but it really showed me, wow, not only do we not have churches that do this, we deny in principle that there is a church that can do this.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I was not, I was, I was too dumb, I guess, to put it all together at that point.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_00: But that really, really laid the groundwork for later discoveries because it got to the point where I continued to believe in the Trinity, but I kind of toward the end was like, like, why do I have to believe in the Trinity?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: I believe scripture teaches it, but it seems like there are good faith, educated people who kind of disagree.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, like what, you know, there were a lot of people quoting all sorts of scripture.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_00: There, I mean, the Arians had a whole list of Bible verses that on the surface kind of seem to make sense.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the father is greater than I, for example, when Jesus says this.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so, anyway, so when I dive into the fathers, uh, I start that in in uh June of 2017 after graduating law school.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I was at the Museum of the Bible at the time.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: I was not looking for the Catholic Church.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: I was basically thinking I would find a bunch of Christians just like me, uh, but more of them being martyred and like finding inspiring stories of martyrdom and whatnot.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and I found the Catholic Church.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's the extremely short version.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, a lot of these books right behind me, these are the very books I was reading and continue to read almost every day.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: And so it's been about nine years.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be, it'll be 10 years next June of being in the Fathers basically every day.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_00: They're just saturated in scripture.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's totally and completely revolutionized my life.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, first in terms of recognizing the church, second in terms of coming into her, and then third, um, my spiritual life, my spiritual life.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_00: The fathers have just revolutionized um my approach to the spiritual life, my fervor, my zeal.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, these are men who took the faith deadly seriously.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, many of them were martyrs, uh, red and white, and um, and they have just so much to offer.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the extremely short version.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then, like I said, the third uh epoch of my conversion is to this day.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we can talk about the rosary elements of that as you will, but uh, but that's the that's the short version of the story.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, we'll come to the rosary in just a moment.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um you speak oftentimes about the changes in your life since becoming Catholic, but perhaps just recently in light of Jacob Reese Mogg's conversation with um Tucker Carlson, uh they covered the the uh bombing of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_01: You said that since becoming Catholic, you've rejected you thought this was a justifiable act, but you've since changed your mind.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know there are many things we could talk about that you've uh had a change of heart on, perhaps, but just because it's topical, what what what did you mean by that?
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: And um, why do you think that's why do you think you view that differently?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: Whew, that's a involved topic.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: What would be the short version?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um the short version, and I I used to defend it.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the short version is St.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Paul, uh, we must not do evil that good may come.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um I think you know, in Protestantism, there are a variety of versions of one saved, always saved.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: So you have this sort of moment where I guess by an act of intellection of belief, you enter into the divine economy and you can never be brought out of it.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's not every Protestant belief, but that's many Protestants.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: I would say the majority of Protestants today, low church Protestantism.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, well, that leads to all sorts of consequences in the moral order, uh, which is a huge topic we can't get into comprehensively.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but I would say that when I one of the things that most shocked me about the church fathers is they were absolutely unanimous on mortal sin.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: They were absolutely unanimous that Christians who are actually Christians, reborn, regenerate, have the Holy Spirit, can lose their salvation and can go to hell.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And so one of these planks of my Protestant beliefs, which I always struggle with because I was like, uh there's a lot in scripture that seems to indicate the opposite, but a lot of people I really love and respect believe this.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it blew this out of the water for me, just totally blew this out of the water.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: So, but this is very practical consequences.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: It means what what I essentially learned from the fathers and all the saints really is uh there's a great secret to never doing evil.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: A great, great secret.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: And by the way, I don't claim to be some Jedi knight on this.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm having to grow on this all the time.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: But there's a great, great secret, but it's a secret like nobody wants to know.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And the the secret is if you never want to do evil, the secret is be willing to suffer.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: Be willing to suffer.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_00: Rather, rather suffer up to death than sin, even venially.
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's like the standard of our Lord, that's what he calls us to with the cross.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I realized with the um with the nuking of Hiroshima Nagasaki was that all the arguments for it essentially amounted to, well, it it secured a better outcome.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it ignored an analysis of the event itself and what it actually was, which was the indiscriminate annihilation of an entire civilian population.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I think there are mitigating factors.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, there were a lot of leaflets dropped that, you know, informed civilians, whatever, but it was still targeting a civilian area and wiping out housing and infrastructure and all this stuff.
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was well beyond a military objective.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I haven't done a deep dive on every aspect of it, but essentially the church has been very, very clear about this.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think it mentions Hiroshima and Nagasaki by name in the catechism, but it does refer to the indiscriminate destruction of civilian areas being a grave evil, I believe.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and this was something I went back and forth with before converting with Ryan Anderson, who's a great Catholic scholar over here in America, has done amazing work on pro-life, LGBT, just he's a he's a wonderful, wonderful guy.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I went at it with him, and I I have since apologized to him and recanted essentially, but I've realized he was right.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, we can never do an evil act for any ostensible good.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you think for the consequences of doing the opposite of that, I don't think any of us would want to live, we don't we wouldn't want to bear the brunt of that kind of philosophy.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I understand that there are, well, we ended the war, and ending the war, yes, is a is a good thing, but at the cost of what?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: At the cost of what and by the way, I think the same standard applies to the firebombing of Tokyo, the firebomb of Dresden and Hamburg.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very, very scary the extent to which we became like the evils we were trying to exterminate.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying I think we were equal with Imperial Japan or the Nazis.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, so that that that was that's a short, I guess a short, short version um of that.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_02: Morally as well, Joshua.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: I think once you start to justify, you know, I can do that evil thing because, you know, I've I've worked out this justification for it, then almost anything becomes possible, doesn't it?
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yes if you follow it down that route of thinking.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think Fulton Sheen, well now blessed Fulton Sheen, I believe he made an observation that Hiroshima and Nagasaki laid the groundwork for abortion in the United States.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's that's really because it it it was premised on an indifference to human life.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um now the people who would support it would say, well, no, we supported the the life of the soldiers that would have been required to invade Japan and would have died or whatnot.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I understand that argument, but again, it it skips the key issue, which is it's like, well, we're skipping the first event to entirely focus on this second theoretical event.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, you can't do that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's still making like this first event an amoral bubble where you get to do what you want based on some supposed abstraction in the future.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it also, frankly, is very unimaginative as to what the possibilities may have been.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe we we maybe we could have blockaded Japan, just kept them bottled up and and like a hermit kingdom, like you know, North Korea's called that.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, fine, if you guys, we're not gonna kill a bunch of our soldiers to totally take over you guys, um, but we're just gonna blockade you and you're gonna stay isolated for until you're ready to join the civilized world again.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_00: That would have been an option as well.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_00: There would have, like, there's all sorts of options that could have been considered.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the issue of unconditional surrender, that's an interesting.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I have to think about that a bit more.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_00: I don't claim to have an answer, but that's also an interesting is that moral?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't know.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: And it's very, very interesting.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: We can get into all sorts of issues with this one, which I'm not saying we should, but it is interesting how with World War II, again, the Nazis were evil, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: The Imperial Japan was evil.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: These were evil, evil people.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um, uh, but so were the Soviets, and so were we in some regards.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying equally, but but um uh well the Soviets were, they were worse in some ways than the Nazis, absolutely worse.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's interesting how a lot of people today, in light of recent events, Gaza, other events, Iran, um, they don't appeal to natural law, they don't appeal to divine law nearly as much as they appeal to Allied conduct in World War II.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, folks, that's not the standard.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: That's not the standard.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just it's just interesting how World War II is so often used as a sort of um uh reorienting of the entire moral order uh with modern questions, which I I uh strongly object to.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think you're you're quite right.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Have you ever thought about debating Nick Fuentes?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm not much participatory.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_00: On what issue?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: On what issue?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, well, we'll we'll we'll uh I'm gonna move to the rosary.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_00: We'll distend from that, yeah.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there is there is a a a a possibly uh fruitful conversation you might have with him, but I don't think we'll Yeah, one of my friends without without telling me beforehand, I must say, suggested that it'd be the most interesting live stream in history.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll see.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_01: We'll be good.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll be good.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: So um watch watch this space.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um he thinks too highly of me, but yeah, I appreciate it.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Joshua, just uh before Mark gets into the the Pope, the papacy with you, um you mentioned the the rosary, and I know that you are uh producing videos, encouraging praying the rosary, and this is October, the month of the Holy Rosary, and reminding people of the importance and power of the rosary.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can you do oh by the way, I just want to say the Rosary Crusade is in London on the 17th of October.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Anyone watching in the UK, please try and get there.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's very important, this public witness for the reparation of sins against our lady.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: London, 17th of October.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: Little plug there.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: And support them if you can financially.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's the only way they can keep going.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: The rosary, Joshua.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um tell us about the power of the rosary in your own life and uh why you advocate for praying the rosary daily.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, gladly.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, the rosary's changed my life.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: The short version, I'll I'll keep it um G or PG rated.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you guys have those ratings in the UK, but but yeah, for a long time, like many men, I was addicted to pornography and the the um the behavior associated with that, you self-abuse, for example.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not proud of these things, obviously, I'm ashamed.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but my pastor, who's also a convert from Protestantism, he uh he said as I was coming into the church, he said, pray a daily rosary and that'll go away.
• 18:34
  SPEAKER_00: I was very, very confident.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, okay.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_00: And so starting January 1st, 2019, so about seven months or so, six and a half months before I came to the church, started praying a daily rosary.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: I've missed maybe like five days since then, but I've made up for it.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_00: But so essentially every day I've said a daily rosary.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_00: Those sins have gone away.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_00: The sins have gone away.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I never ever in a million years thought that would be possible.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ever.
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um I still will struggle with lust.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: I I've had close calls, but and I go to confession when that happens, but but I've never had those sins again so far.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I ascribe a lot, I mean I I go to mass a lot, so that definitely helps as well.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: But but before I was going to daily mass, I had just the rosary because I couldn't receive communion for the first six and a half months when I did that because I wasn't Catholic yet.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um, you know, nobody wants our Lord's disciples to be pure more than our lady, obviously Christ Himself, but beyond Christ, like no one wants purity more than our lady because she herself is all pure.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I am the Immaculate Conception.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I think when we um are grounding our mind and our hearts and contemplating the mysteries of the gospel, our Lord's life, um, and then we're asking the chief intercessor, the chief prayer intercessor of the messianic kingdom to pray for us before the king.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, the Roger includes plenty of prayers directly to Christ too, to you know, obviate, you know, some of the common Protestant objections.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's very powerful.
• 20:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's very powerful.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, I look back, um, there were several times in my life, especially in college, where I was definitely in mortal sin.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I lived in the Midwest for seven years, and so I'd be driving on highways, and I had at least two occasions where you know my car was just slipping on the ice, and you know, another car was slipping, and we were like coming right at you, came within a foot of each other, and it would have hit me right on the driver's side.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I I I would say at least twice I came very close to dying.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I personally have no doubt that our lady was praying for me because I I I would have gone to hell.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, barring some extraordinary grace, I would have gone to hell.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, gosh, there's so, so, so much to say.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess I would also say, um, many people ask me, um, well, I've got a kid or a family, a family member or a friend, whatever, who's fallen away from the faith or who I want to come to the faith.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what do I do?
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_00: They feel kind of desperate.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll say, Well, are you praying a daily rosary for them?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: 90% of the time, the answer is no.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm like, okay, uh, are you fasting for them?
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Because our Lord says some things are only some demons are only expelled by prayer and fasting.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_00: 99% of the time it's no.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's one other thing from the Church Fathers.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about, you know, there's obviously the whole apostolic succession, papacy, our lady, all Eucharist, all these things that kind of disprove Protestantism and its fundamentals.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but on the spiritual life, the fathers are very, very clear about prayer, fasting, and almsgiving.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: These are the three great weapons of the spiritual life.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: And we we desperately need to recover these as Catholics.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I will say recently, because I uh maybe you've seen me, I've talked more about the first Saturdays.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was uh a few months ago, I was deeply grieved, like literally the grace of tears, which I'm not a huge crier.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: I cry about things I'm grateful for more often these days, but I don't really cry.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Much out of sorrow, um, too much.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I I literally shed tears because I realized I've been I've consecrated my life to our lady.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I see a daily rose, I love our lady, but I have not taken the requests of Our Lady of Fatima as seriously as I should.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I have not been doing first Saturdays consistently at all.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt great grief.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: And so myself, along with a few close male friends out here, we are now doing every first Saturday.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: We we intend to keep doing it.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, Our Lady was very clear that the rosary has been given to help save souls.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I came into the church Saturday, July 13th, 2019.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: So exactly 102 years after the vision of hell that our lady gave to the children, and she said, this is uh hell where poor sinners go.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, I think in a later locution to Sister Lucia, that people fall into it because nobody's praying for them and doing penance for them.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, this is deadly serious business, not only for ourselves, but for others.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: So all I can say is that uh, I mean, I think the the one verse from scripture that really sums it up with Our Lady is you could say the fiat, there's all sorts of verses, but uh the one that really strikes me is when she says the Magnificat, my soul magnifies the Lord.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that's how amazing and pure and beautiful and wonderful Our Lady is.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: She is not about herself.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is one of the great misnomers I had as a Protestant.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, no, our Lady magnifies the Lord, and nobody has helped me love Jesus more, and I've got a whole lot more to grow in, but nobody, nobody, nobody has helped me love him like she has.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I'm saying.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_02: From a you know, I've done some work with the Baptists and stuff like that locally, and you know, from a Catholic perspective, one of the things about Mariology is that it it teaches us about Christology.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_02: If you look at the um, if you look at what what went on in the great councils, Ephesus particularly, you know, you find that when they wanted to understand uh a dimension of Christ's reality, that they they would do that through considering in the context of of the incarnation and the birth.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things I found with the Baptists was that they didn't have any incarnational theology.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, they like I've I've been in um a Bible study group with with Baptists, you know, long-standing Christians who, you know, were confused about where Jesus comes from, you know, that like they didn't believe that Jesus took flesh from Mary.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: Um that was impossible.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and I just couldn't, you know, I thought it was incredulous.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: So how do you how did you get over though?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like I'm as you're talking about the rosary, I'm thinking, well, hang on a minute, vain repetition, that's one that we get thrown at us a lot, isn't it?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know, sure.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and obviously, like the the idea of why don't you pray directly to Jesus?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_02: So there's three things there, Joshua.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: How would you answer?
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, very easily, actually.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is where I realized when I was converting, there were so many um things that I knew were common sense, and I applied elsewhere except when it came to the Catholic Church.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it this is one area.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_00: So uh vain repetition.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_00: Well, people often uh elide the two words.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually two words there.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: One's vain, one's repetition.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's vain repetition.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's an adjective, right?
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: One our our English language is thank you guys.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's wonderful.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's multi, it's multifaceted, it's probably the most uh it's probably the best language in the world as far as being precise.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so um it so our Lord doesn't uh prohibit repetition.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: If he did, by the way, he'd have to prohibit the angels and the seraphims and like half the psalms.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Holy, holy, holy, yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Psalm to song to yeah, exactly.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then the book of Apache.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: Why did he teach us the Our Father?
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so yeah, it's vain repetition.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so if if you're gonna if you're going to elide vain with repetition, then I guess the seraphim are out.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I guess Psalm 150 is out.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: I guess a lot of things in in scripture are out.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, we could talk about why the rosary is in vain.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be a whole other discussion.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: But anyway, that'd be the short answer there.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: On the directly to Jesus, um, again, uh if you're going to say you only pray directly to Jesus, then then you've you have undercut the very um request of other Christians to pray for you.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why ask other Christians to pray for you at all if you should only go directly to Jesus?
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why have them?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it doesn't make sense.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so, and when we ask our lady to pray for us, that's precisely what we're doing.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: We're asking another Christian to pray for us.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: She happens to be the most exalted and holiest of all Christians, which is precisely why, as James says, James, the prayers of a righteous man avail much, in this case, a righteous woman.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, so if a Christian admits the principle that Christians should pray for other Christians, and also non-Christians, St.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: Paul's very clear about this, right?
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: We pray for the rulers of the world, whatnot, um, then they then they must admit that it's okay to ask others to pray for us.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if they admit that, well, then the only remaining objection is, well, she's dead.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's really interesting as a Protestant, I don't know about you guys, as a Protestant, I was at all sorts of, you know, funeral type services, memory, you know, uh celebration of life.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_00: I hate that term, by the way.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's one of these modern idiotic terms that show we don't deal with suffering and and as what and death as we should.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, that'd be another discussion.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_00: But um, but I would always hear things like they are more alive than ever before, they're with Jesus now, and like, like I can't wait to join them.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, it's like, yeah, that's true.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, hopefully, hopefully, right?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's like, let's assume they're a saint.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's true.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: They're alive, they're with Jesus.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh how can you say that they're dead?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, but the moment we got to the Catholic church, like, nope, they're dead, and you're in necromancy.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, exactly.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, so again, it's just there, there were all these inconsistent.
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, absolutely.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, even like as an American, you know, I went to Mount Vernon in 2012, George Washington's home.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: And um I I longed for the first time.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_02: He was fighting.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yes.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I uh I long for the I long for the days of the tax rates of George III.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I said.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's all I'll say.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_00: They were the lowest taxes this continent has ever had.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, um, but I I went to Washington's home and I have a mentor who did a lot of great work for them.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so I had a behind-the-scenes tour, and I went to where his his mausoleum was or his sarcophagus, and you know, they opened it for us.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: We did a little ceremony, and I knelt down and like laid my hand on it.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I wouldn't do that now, you know.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was 20 2012.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I respect Washington in various ways, but you know, he's a free man.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, that'd be another discussion.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but the point is, is none of my Protestant friends objected.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: None of my Protestant friends objected to the to the respect and veneration I was showing to an actually dead man and his sarcophagus, which was notably not particularly Christian.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: But if I did that to the physical remains of a literal martyr of Jesus Christ, idolatry.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just so anyway, this is this is part of me realizing that there were so many prejudices I had I didn't even realize I had that had been built into me by, I would argue, you know, centuries of indoctrination and propaganda, propaganda.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, that that that's the short answer of what I would say to to some of those objections.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_02: It it fascinates me because like these are this is exactly my experience, is like that, you know, as you were saying, they're kind of the the way that I explained it was that they're traditions, you know, like ironically, we you know like Christians will talk like evangel uh um Christians will say like Baptists and those sorts of denominators will say that they rely on scripture alone, but they don't, they interpret scripture through their tradition, yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, when you start breaking it open with them, they they you know they get all confused and upset because it's just so obvious.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_02: Shall we turn to the Pope now then, Catherine?
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's do it.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: Who better than you?
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, so we're you know, we're a little way into the uh into this new papacy now.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's not been without its controversies, Joshua.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, but we are on the back of this amazing trip to France, which I hope the same, you know, I think we all felt extremely positive about it.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_02: Now, my way of looking at it has been very much that the difference between Pope Francis and Pope Leo is that Pope Francis inhabited the papacy.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: He was sort of trying to subvert the papacy and make it about Jorge Bergoglio.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was making the papacy into the man, whereas Leo seems to have, you know, been subsumed by the office of the papacy to a large extent.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: Now, whether, you know, we could argue about whether he's a content, I think he is a continuity pope, or the what at least the way that he's approaching the papacy is not to sort of, you know, clean out the Aegean stables.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, now, whether you argue about the merits of that or not, in a way it doesn't matter.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_02: What we saw in France was the power of the office and the ability that it has to stir the Holy Spirit and to encourage uh the French people to rise up and become Catholic again.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: It was quite extraordinary.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, what was your what's your take on it?
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I I agree.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: And just so people know, I'm not a uh ecclesiastical commentator.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I so I you guys are, and I think you guys are among the best.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you're there.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um I generally avoid it.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my my primary goal of the turnal Christian is to get people into these sources.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say, yeah, I um I have a great deal of affection for Pope Leo.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: I, yeah, I have seen some of the decisions, some of the appointments he's made, and some of those are concerning.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I was very encouraged by France, and I I agree with you.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: He uh, you know, um I I I said this at the time, I I kept it a little bit more quiet just because I try to stay in my lane in these things.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: Pope Francis made evangelism and apologetics very difficult.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and Pope Leo is not without some difficulties.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: There there are there are difficulties post-Vatican II that I think do remain to be resolved.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think we need to be very honest with people about that.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, I think he he seems to be a genuinely good man.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um I pray for him every day.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And uh yeah, I guess that's all I would really say.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it it was exciting to see the upsurge in France, uh, you know, as an uh the ability of the office, really, isn't it, to stir things up, you know.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like even like let's forget about talking about the con the controversies.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: To me, it really seemed like France came alive, you know.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: When you think about things like Lourdes, you know, when when he was in Lourdes, there you saw the best, the best side of the church, really, because it's the church in action, isn't it?
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's you know, like it's not just talking about the the value of life.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: He was there look like you know, holding up um severely disabled children.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: He had five down syndrome altar servers.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, he was really living the value of human life in a powerful way that people connect with.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, contrasted with the culture of death that's overtaking France, overtaking Canada.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God, I think the your guys' parliament just prevented uh assisted suicide bill, right?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so thank God for that.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: At least it's slowing things down a bit.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, no, absolutely.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean it really shows, you know, I think one of the great, you know, uh proofs of the papacy, not a not a sort of syllogistic proof, but a sort of inductive one, is the the power of the papal office.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: There's no office like it.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's no office that gathers more support.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean, who it was said that Stalin said, How many divisions does the Pope have?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, as it turns out, way more than Stalin.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_00: And as you're as you're kind of alluding to.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and so the other thing, the Pope had a number of very strident calls for conversion.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think at Lourdes, he had a, it was, if it was it at Lourdes, he had a homily that was that was really calling people to convert, which was really, really great.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: And you can tell he's Augustinian.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: He says so many things that are Augustinian.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_00: He's also called for more reverence in the liturgy.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the comments I made, one of the more controversial comments I made, was every time you see these papal liturgies, you see average Catholics really be much more reverent than we see in a lot of our local parishes, at least in our country.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I go to a TLM, so uh I go to a Nova Sordo for many dailies, but but a TLM most of the time, that's my main parish.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't have to worry about it, the TLM parish, but um, but we see a lot of irreverence and all sorts of things.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: But when the Pope's around, that goes away.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was kind of an indication that we can do a lot better.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, you know, even for myself, it's like, how do you behave when like a person you actually think matters is around?
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, oh, guess what?
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_00: When they leave, the guy that matters above everybody else, Jesus Christ, is still there.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: So, so why don't you behave, you know, as if he is there?
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_00: Because he is.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, so I I really think people should take the the reverence that we see in these papal liturgies, um, along with Pope Leo's calls to bring irreverence in the liturgy to an end.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I hope he takes more practical actions against that.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: But but one thing as a Catholic, um, I find such a relief.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: My um our primary disposition as Catholics, I know you guys agree with this fully, is to be humble.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And that means that if our leaders are doing things that are scandalous, sinful, whatever, we're within our rights to criticize that.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Canon law secures it.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, St.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Augustine, St.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Aquinas, they both talk about Galatians 2, where Paul confronts Peter directly with his scandalous behavior, not his teaching.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: He was he was refusing to eat with Gentile believers because he was fearful of the Jews.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that fear doesn't exist today, does it?
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so uh sorry, I had to say it.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but um, but but so that fraternal correction is a well-established reality in in Catholic theology.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_00: But it's you know what I've realized?
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: I've I'm very, very blessed with a lot of very close friends.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say the closest and best friendships, they do have this atmosphere in which fraternal correction can take place.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_00: But for the fraternal correction to be at its best can never be particularly zealous in the sense of like, I want to correct my friend, right?
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's like the exact opposite attitude you should have.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd say with a friend, all the more with the hierarchy.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and look, I I've been clear about my opinions.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're arguably in the worst period in history.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I have all sorts of opinions about that.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's not a matter of being like Pollyanish about these things.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no, there are there are some very, very serious issues.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, when the same people who are telling me they're worried about their friends and family, whatever not being in the church, but they're also telling me not praying a daily rosary, not fasting, whatever, but they're yapping, yapping, yapping on social media, it's like you've lost the plot.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: You've lost the plot.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think there's a particular, like Protestant really temptation when we're going through trials like this to remake the church in your own image?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, well, the church isn't doing what I want it to do, instead of, like you say, having that humble approach, which is like, well, what is God trying to teach me through this?
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: I'm really struggling, you know, I'm really struggling with this.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_02: But I know that God is in charge and I know He won't leave us orphans.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: So, what can I learn like sitting at the foot of the cross from this experience?
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think in many ways, the whole ideological basis of the modern world is it's this is one of my thoughts.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I could refine it a bit if I thought about it further.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: But having thought about it a bit, I think it's that if there's a if there's authority that's abused or not consented to, it can be rejected.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: That started with Protestantism, with the apostolic hierarchy.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_00: It then extended as Pope Adrian VI very clearly warned the imperial dead in 1523.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was admitting all these horrible things that had happened in Rome, how the prelates and the priests, many of them had fallen into grave sin, grave scandal.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_00: But he also warned about where Luther's principles would go.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, this is not just the overthrow of the apostolic hierarchy.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is the overthrow of the temporal power as well, which it has been.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: We saw with the French Revolution, the Masonic principles that have overtaken the whole world.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: And it's essentially, I'm not bound by anything I don't consent to.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: And this is a ludicrous principle.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Apply it to parents, apply it to even the government's rent.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, have I well apply it?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: How does that match St.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_00: Paul's words in Romans 13?
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: Under Nero, for goodness sakes.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, there are all sorts of exceptions.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: We this is a big topic, right?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: We can talk about legitimate resistances, whatever.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole modern project is based on the idea, not that I just get to resist or whatever, but that I get to usurp and literally destroy any authority I have I deem I have not consented to or I consider abusive.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say that's the basis of feminism, I'd say it's the basis of Protestantism, I'd say it's the basis of liberalism, uh, it's the basis of everything in the modern world.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it it's, I mean, I think in many ways it's kind of the the ideological basis of the trans ideology of like I didn't consent to this body, I feel differently, so I am going to choose something else.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: And so um this this did come spiritually from Protestantism.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: It really did.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally ignoring the ontological reality, isn't it?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's totally bypassing that.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: And just just interestingly, this morning I saw a little snippet of news.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if you saw this mark over here, of a man who's taking it might have been Germany, uh to court.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if he's taking the whole country, but I'm subpar everyone.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I've got, I don't know if you notice, I've got a streaming cold, I'm doing my best here, uh, for saying that he wants the church to take his record of his baptism off he wants he wants them to scrub it.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he's saying the church has no right to keep a record of his baptism because he now doesn't want to be baptized, so we need to just get rid of it.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And this this is actually going through the kind of you know the human rights Mark.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think maybe you might have yeah, you might have commented earlier.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_01: Weird, isn't it?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, exactly.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's like it's like it doesn't exist.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I can just rub it out with a rubber, it it that but that doesn't get rid of the reality, just like a man who dresses up as a woman doesn't get rid of the reality of what's given and we've received the dictatorship of relativism, isn't it?
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, but it becomes a hermeneutic, and I think that's what we we've seen in the church that uh is the thing that frightens me the most.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: It becomes the lens through which you then interpret every single action that goes on, and you end up with not giving anything a fair hearing, you just immediately see it through that hermeneutic, so it becomes that everything Leo says and does is a disaster, and that I think is dangerous for your soul, don't you think?
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, 100%.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I did want to mention one thing for a great, great patristic work that many people are not particularly familiar with, but it's astounding.
• 41:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not quite done with it yet, but it's very long.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's St.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Pope Gregory the Great's Moralia on Job.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: So his whole commentary on Job, it's like this long, like six inches, all the volumes together.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it's basically like Augustine's City of God plus confessions plus a bit more.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's how long it is.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And just to give you a sense of how good this is, uh St.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thomas Aquinas and his commentary on Job and the prologue basically says, Yeah, Gregory covered the spiritual reading of Job, so I'm not even going to touch it.
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_00: He covered it so well, I'm not even going to touch it.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_00: So when the when the angelic doctor says, Yeah, this guy covered it, I'm not even going to touch it.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, you know, it's good.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: But one of the points, um, Gregory essentially sees in Job a type of the church.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: And he sees in his friends and his wife, you know, who's his wife says, you know, curse God and die.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, he sees in them at various points types of heretics, schismatics, pagans, and demons, essentially, devils.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: And Job is the true church.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: Job is a sort of Christ figure.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: And there are many places where he points out, he literally says, I don't have the quote memorized, but I've posted before.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's, he says, essentially, heretics do not recognize the church in her suffering.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: It's very interesting.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: That's quite powerful, isn't it?
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_02: And quite quite relevant for the moment.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you referred to Baptists lacking in incarnational theology.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: Another thing that was interesting, I um I haven't read all of them, but Calvin's Institutes.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was curious because I was realizing, wow, Protestantism is lacking theology of the incarnation with respect to the church.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like scripture calls the church Christ's body, not his spirit.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if it's a body, it's visible.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like, so how does Protestant ecclesiology account for Christ's body being extended in the earth?
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: But um, out of curiosity, this is in my conversion phase, uh, I looked up the word incarnation in Calvin, Calvin's Institutes.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: It only appeared a very few times, very few times.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now he affirms it, of course, whatever, but he doesn't apply it to everything.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yes, this is part of the great secret.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I one of the things I'm passionate about, I really think we need to increase devotion to Saint John right now.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_00: Our Lady and Saint John.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think you guys know why, because he was the only apostle that stayed firm and with our lady at the cross.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's like I I I a thought experiment I frequently propose to people is imagine you were the apostles, you're heading into holy week, right?
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: You're still not getting what has to happen.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: You're still not getting it, which therefore for the grace of God go I.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: We we have all the best.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Benefits that they didn't have.
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_00: And you schedule a debate with the Pharisees about why your rabbi is the Messiah.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: But you schedule it for Holy Saturday.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: Let's say that's the day you scheduled it.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think you're gonna lose that debate.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_00: Because your rabbi's dead.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's looking very bad.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's gonna look very bad.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: So the point is I think that applies preeminently during the passion of the church, the persecution of Antichrist.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: But I think it applies anytime the church is suffering.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: And many fathers talk about this.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: St.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: Cyril of Jerusalem uh has a great quote.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't have it in front of me, but he essentially says that, yeah, all the heretics and the schismatics, you know, um, you know, you know, they they they rhetorically inveigh against the church when she's being persecuted and suffering and things are in chaos.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: But he essentially says, but you always have to wait because God will always vindicate the Catholic Church.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: He will always vindicate it.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: So um that's just part of the mystery of the church.
• 44:58
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like, think of how, if this is true, it is, but if it's true, think of the profound humility this must inculcate in us.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because so much of our modern life, particularly with images and video and whatever, it's a matter of self-aggrandizement and vanity.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like we feel so much better about ourselves if we appear better, right?
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like when God says, no, no, no, I call you to look horrible with me.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: I call you to be bloodied and beaten to a pulp with me.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_00: I call on you to be murdered unjustly with me.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I call you to be of ill repute, not good looking, esteemed lightly.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I call you to.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if that's what he calls us to with his him his person, then how much more his church on occasion.
• 45:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that's the the posture of mind and heart we should have in such circumstances, which again is not to say let's not talk about the details of some of these scandals.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we have to, right?
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to gaslight people.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to gaslight.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think Josh would be we try and we try and come at it from the like Catherine and I always try and come at it like we don't understand this.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like we're trained in theology.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_02: Like someone explain it to us because sometimes it seems like things happen in the church and there's no good reason for it.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really, you know, I think one of the powerful things, and we've had this confirmed to us from the from the hierarchy, you know, that yep, the the job we're doing is we're asking those questions and reflecting back sometimes to the heart to our bishops.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_02: This is what it looks like from the ground up, you know, and we're the ones, you know, us three who have committed our children's lives to this, we're the ones who put you know our livelihoods and everything on the line.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: So um, you know, would you think it'd be okay if I read?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: I I think this would be really apt if it if it's okay.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's a it's a bit of a longer quote, maybe three, three, four paragraphs, but it's from Saint Augustine.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_00: If it's it's about on this very issue, I think it's very every time I've shared it with people, it's been very powerful.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: So is that okay?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, dude.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So this is from his uh sermon 223, which was on the Vigil of Easter, and I've posted this on X many times.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so it's about a 1600-year-old sermon.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: So Saint Augustine, he helped me see the reality of this.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: He he would refer, he would be deeply grounded in biblical theology.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'll cover it super, super fast.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: He would talk about the church as the threshing floor.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_00: What this refers back to is the threshing floor that David purchased upon which he would eventually be built the Temple of Solomon.
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is the Temple Mount.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_00: And what happens on a threshing floor?
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: You take wheat and you crush it and you separate the actual wheat from the chaff, right?
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so he would basically say the church is that threshing floor.
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: So guess what?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: You're still gonna get crushed on occasion, but the but then uh going back to the Gospels, our Lord talks about this, the wheat and the chaff, and he says the wheat's gonna be collected and put in the barn, and the chaff's gonna be thrown into the everlasting fire.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So St.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: Augustine frequently makes a point: guess what?
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: The only place he's gonna be gaining gathering wheat from is on the threshing floor.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: So stay on the threshing floor.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_00: So here's this.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's just a bit of background on the quote.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: But here's the quote.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's very powerful again, Easter vigil.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: So he's saying this to new new Catholics.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: And there's another another Easter Vigil sermon where he essentially says, avoid bad Catholics, stick with good Catholics.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, so here's what he says.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: There are those who, though called believers, are not so.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_00: There are believers in whom the sacraments of Christ are subjected to abuse, persons who live in such a way that they themselves perish and ruin others.
• 48:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um they themselves perish by evil living.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_00: They destroy others, however, by giving the example of evil living.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Do not wish, my dearly beloved, to be associated with such as these.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: Seek the good, cleave to the good, be good.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_00: Do not be surprised at the large number of bad Christians who fill the church, who communicate at the altar.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: They can exist along with us in the church of this time, but they will not be able to remain in that assembly of saints which will be after the resurrection.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: For the church of this time, since it has good mixed with bad, is compared to a threshing floor where grain is mixed with chaff, but after the judgment it will have all good members without the evil.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: This threshing floor contains the harvest sown by the apostles, watered by subsequent good teachers down to the present times, somewhat bruised by the persecution of enemies, but with the remnant not yet purged by the final sifting.
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_00: Nevertheless, he will come, concerning whom you recited in the creed, then he will come to judge the living and the dead.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_00: And the gospel says, His winnowing fan is in his hand, and he will thoroughly clean out his threshing floor, and will gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff you will burn up with unquenchable fire.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let the old faithful members hear what I say, let him who is the grain rejoice in the tossing.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let him remain, let him not depart from the threshing floor, let him not, following his own judgment, try to free himself from the chaff, since he will not be able to remain on the threshing floor if he wishes to separate himself now from the chaff.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_00: Furthermore, when he comes Christ, who distinguishes without error, he will not raise to the granary what he has not found on the threshing floor.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever grains have now withdrawn from the threshing floor will then boast in vain about their stock.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_00: The barn will be filled and closed, fire will consume whatever has remained outside.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: Therefore, my dear brethren, let him who is good put up with the evil, let him who is bad imitate the good.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: On this threshing floor, in truth, grain can degenerate into chaff, mortal sin.
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_00: And on the other hand, grain can be restored from chaff, repentance.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: These changes take place daily, my brethren.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_00: This life is full of punishments and consolations.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_00: Daily those who seemed good do wrong and perish.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_00: And again those who seemed evil are converted and live.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_00: For God does not will the death of the sinner, but only that he be converted from his ways and live.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Final few sentences.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Hear me, O grains of wheat.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_00: Hear me, you who conform to my desires.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_00: Hear me, O grain.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: Do not be saddened by the intermixture of chaff.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: The evil will not be with you forever.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: To how great an extent does the chaff press upon you?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank God that it is not heavy.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: Only let us remain the wheat.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: Then, how abundant soever the chaff may be, it will not oppress us.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_02: Powerful stuff.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_02: And it's amazing how how relevant it is for today, isn't it?
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's you know, you can't do it.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_02: 1600 years ago.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_00: 1600 years ago.
• 51:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_00: I love sharing that stuff.
• 51:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's what that's what eternal Christians are all about, is like getting people into these sources because you you know, I call it a one-niner, Ecclesiastes 1-9.
• 51:42
  SPEAKER_00: I coined that term years and years ago.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: There's nothing new under the sun, and you really realize that, you know.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you guys for allowing me the time to share that.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's such a powerful quote.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I I literally shared it with some Catholics a few weeks ago in Texas who were kind of on the brink and were getting scandalized, and it just totally revolutionized.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_02: We upset them.
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Brilliant.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: They were just like, wow, wow.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, thank you guys for the allowance there.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Joshua.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: That's great.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's a great place to wrap it up, don't you, Catherine?
• 52:12
  unknown: Yeah.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Find a word there.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: Before we do, you um you mentioned eternal Christendom.
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_01: Perhaps you could just point people to your channel and your work and let them know how that might be able to support you.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: EternalChristendom.com.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_00: We're a nonprofit, so you got a tax deduction in the U.S.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_00: Although we have patrons on all the continents now.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: It's been pretty crazy, all over Europe, South America, Africa, some in Asia.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's been it's been crazy.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_00: Wonders of the internet, as you guys know.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_00: So the goal is to cultivate Saints and Statesman through the great tradition of Christendom.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have a weekly podcast.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_00: We've got well over a million words of written content on the website that we're adding to all the time.
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, again, diving into the stuff, trying to prove the faith.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: Some people have joked that I'm the receipts guy, so I bring the receipts from the fathers, you know, ongoing research and stuff.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: We're also, I can't go into the details right now, but we're building a very significant platform uh right now.
• 53:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we're in the testing phase to hopefully house the writings of the fathers in a very comprehensive, very beautiful way.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, because of the faithful monthly support in particular of patrons, uh, we have been able to do that behind the scenes.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm hoping we're trying to do it right, right?
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_00: If you, as a mentor of mine said, if you don't have the time to do it right, you certainly don't have the time to do it wrong.
• 53:22
  SPEAKER_00: So, so we're trying to do it right.
• 53:24
  SPEAKER_00: So, but that's what we're working on.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm, you know, there's so many conversions happening.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know about you guys, but basically every conversion from non-Catholic Christianity to the church um involves the church fathers, almost everyone I've seen.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: And so to make these things far, far, far more available, including stuff that's not been translated.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: Anyway, I wish I could go into it.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be for another time.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're also under priestly authority.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: So uh our board unanimously voted uh if there's anything I'm doing or we're saying or or whatever publicly, uh, we will abide by this priest's decision.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_00: He's in good standing, uh, one of the holiest men, if not the holiest man I know.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: So that's the gist.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you guys.
• 53:59
  SPEAKER_02: Brilliant.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's great to have you on.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: Appreciate it.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's really wonderful.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_01: So do support what a wonderful project Eternal Christendom is.
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: And we'll leave it there for now.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: But thank you to Joshua for joining us.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you to all of you for watching and tuning again for our next interview.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: God bless.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Bye bye.