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The Long Kiss Goodnight · Citizen Frame

0:16
Oh, shit! That hurt. Shit!
0:22
I know. That's why I distracted you first.
0:26
Same principle as deflowering virgins. What? What?
0:30
Read it in this Harold Robbins book. Guy bites her in the air,
0:34
distracts from the pain. Ever try that?
0:36
No, no, I sock him in the jaw and yell, pop goes the weasel.
0:40
Who the fuck are you? Name's Charlie.
0:43
The spy. Nice to meet you.
0:43
Music.
0:55
Hey, everybody, welcome back. It's a sweet, sweet Christmas episode podcast, The Citizen Frame.
1:00
Today's film is another action-packed excitement, but I think a lot is classic.
1:06
I do think people enjoy it who do remember it, but I think it kind of got lost in the shuffle.
1:11
Yeah. And this is where I want to talk about the man tonight, which is Rene Harlan.
1:17
We have discussed him in the past with our Nightmare on Elm Street retrospective,
1:22
where he directed Nightmare 4, I believe, The Dream Master. Yes, he did.
1:27
Now, I'm a big fan of Rene Harlan's stuff. He's back kind of making resurgence
1:32
with that new Strangers trilogy he's doing right now.
1:35
And hopefully he'll get some more bites on those successes.
1:41
So the man is credited with some wonderful stuff.
1:45
Die Hard 2, Cliffhanger, Deep Blue Sea, which is my personal favorite,
1:50
and the very, very missed timing of Cutthroat Island. And,
1:58
Then he put together with Shane Black, Shane Black. Lethal Weapon.
2:02
Time the same surges as Rene Harlan.
2:04
Shane Black started off with the Monster Squad. He's a screenwriter mainly and
2:08
a part-time actor, which he's in Predator as well.
2:12
But he did screenwrote Monster Squad, Lethal Weapon, the wonderful,
2:17
wonderful last Boy Scout, last action hero.
2:20
And then he's directed Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, The Nice Guys, Iron Man 3.
2:25
They're both good TVs, and I like both of them. reddy harlan i do like and i
2:30
do like some of his films but yeah some of his stuff not so much i actually
2:34
i have to say i like i quite like him as a person he comes across like a good guy.
2:39
But yeah die hard too definitely cliffhanger it's very entertaining so yeah
2:44
i think they would probably be as two best for me anyway as exorcist film didn't
2:50
set the world on fire well that's i I won't get into that we talked about.
2:55
That wasn't his fault. He didn't direct most of it.
2:57
He had to go in, and he actually had to put the stuff in that work.
3:00
There's two versions of it. So that's the way I'm looking at it.
3:03
Yeah, oh, no, there was all sorts of studio interference.
3:05
And then there was actually a second version of the same film by Paul Schrader
3:10
released as well, Exorcist Dominion.
3:13
No, that was the original version. Yes, then, yeah. Yeah, that's right.
3:16
Then they said, this is terribly boring.
3:19
We need, so they put Rene Harlan's punch in it, And that's the version I actually
3:23
kind of enjoy. Exorcist at the beginning.
3:25
Yes, I know what you're saying, but I don't think that type of punch belongs
3:29
in an Exorcist film. But that's a separate podcast.
3:32
Yeah, yeah. So Long Kiss Goodnight, yeah, so you had Rene Harlan,
3:37
and he kind of faded a bit because he had a couple big duds.
3:40
Cuthbert Island really hurt him, and it's unfortunate because just a few years
3:44
later, we'd get Pirates of the Caribbean.
3:46
It's almost the same concept with the Long Kiss Goodnight. Long Kiss Goodnight
3:50
was not a big hit for him because he was married to Jeanne Davis when he made
3:54
those two films, Cuthbert Island and Long Kiss Goodnight.
3:59
The leading woman, action film. She was hot from Thelma and Louise.
4:04
I kind of like that. I like the fact he was doing something like this.
4:07
I also like the fact Long Kiss Goodnight, just like Cutler Island,
4:11
came out just at the wrong time.
4:14
People weren't ready for this kind of action spy assassin.
4:17
A few years later, we get the Bourne franchise rebirth. We get Salt with Angela and Jolie coming out.
4:23
And these are all hits. and just like Cutthroat Island just missed the boat, pardon the pun.
4:30
When Pirates came out a couple years after that and they're both excellent films,
4:34
Long Kiss Goodnight and Cutthroat Island and I know they've got their cult value.
4:40
But sometimes cult value doesn't bring back the director's talent and you lose
4:45
the studio and doesn't have faith in that director.
4:48
So that's what's happened I kind of think with Rene and now
4:51
he's doing a lot of B stuff and C stuff and so he
4:54
but he's he works hard and a lot of stuff i don't like because
4:57
there's no budgets and he's filming outside of big studios he's
5:00
going to you know europe to film a lot of his stuff and kudos for him wanting
5:04
to keep working but hopefully this little resurgence he's doing might bring
5:08
some of them back and shane black's always been around yeah yeah all the subject
5:12
of shane black as a born identity i think he pretty much admitted that he did
5:17
borrow elements for you know,
5:20
from the original novels for the long kiss good night,
5:23
you know, with the whole secret agent, you know, amnesia type thing.
5:27
Yeah. No, I mean, what he's really good with, Shane Black, he's liked,
5:35
he's got Tarantino started later, but Shane Black, what he does is you can tell he's a fan boy.
5:42
Monster Squad's a perfect example. But Lethal Weapon, he probably looked at
5:47
48 Hours, which I think is the original buddy cop movie, but people kind of forget about it.
5:52
And then lethal weapon though, just boom, put it on the map.
5:56
And, but what he does well is that, and we'll definitely talk about a long kiss,
6:01
good night is there's a very serious tone in his films.
6:07
Mel Gibson was suicide. We'll talk about long kiss, good night here in a second
6:11
with his, her daughter and stuff like that.
6:14
See, he uses very serious tones, but he gets away with some very funny sequences
6:20
relating to those dangerous tones.
6:23
Mel Gibson's Suicide is a perfect example. Suicidal Martin Riggs. Yeah. And he...
6:30
But he winks at the audience, the over-the-top action. These guys are in no way getting out of this.
6:35
Well, they'll get out of it somehow. Well, that's why I think he gets away with
6:38
it, due to the tone, you know what
6:41
I mean? And it's not even so much about getting away with it, you know?
6:44
It's about, you know, the delivery where it's, yes, there's heavy themes being
6:48
discussed and stuff, but at the same time, you know what I mean,
6:52
you're sort of along with the ride too, so it doesn't get too bogged down and,
6:57
frankly, depressing, you know?
6:59
Yeah it's not i think what
7:02
lethal weapon did and i say
7:04
that before die hard because lethal weapon did come on first is lethal
7:09
weight paved the way to keep our 80s g's without calling it 80s g's because
7:16
it's smarter it's it's it's smarter in the writing it's smarter in the acting
7:20
there not to don't disrespect for our chuck norris's and our commandos and cobras but.
7:26
These are a lot more sophisticated actions.
7:30
Well, they're more rounded characters as well, but I would say as well that
7:33
the performers as well, especially with Lethal Weapon, you had Mel Gibson and
7:38
Danny Glover, they really brought it to life as well and made it even more memorable.
7:42
No disrespect to the likes of Chuck Norris and such, but yeah,
7:46
you know, it's a good combination with those films, you know,
7:50
between the quirky writing and the dialogue, but also done by people like Mel
7:56
Gibson and Danny Glover who can really sell it and do those sort of crazy quirky characters well,
8:01
Now, we're going to jump in here to Long Kiss Goodnight. Again, very simple.
8:06
It's got the main characters are Samantha slash Charlie, Mitch,
8:10
Timothy, Nathan, Luke, One-Eyed Jack, Hal, Caitlin, and Perkins.
8:14
Those are your main characters played by Ginny Davis, Samuel Jackson,
8:18
Craig Pierco, who very hams it up very well.
8:22
Plays Dick really good. Brian Cox, who I always like to see.
8:25
David Morse kind of played that villain in the 90s and the early 2000s.
8:33
So the film, what I like about the film, the first 25 minutes is just a massive
8:41
data dump, but they do it so well.
8:45
In just a few moments, you'll find out that Samantha lives in small town, USA.
8:50
She's a ma, she's a teacher, a very Itch of a Wonderful Life town.
8:54
Small town of Martichana. Santa Claus. Yeah, she's playing Santa's Mrs.
8:59
Claus in the parade. You find out eight years ago, she woke up on the beach,
9:05
and she was two months pregnant with Caitlin, who is her eight-year-old daughter as of now.
9:10
But you get the sandwich before making Christmas cookies and just this,
9:14
you know, lovable, likable, happy family.
9:19
I'm the sort of moronic boyfriend who's like a nice guy,
9:24
but he's like kind of moronic as well you know the boyfriend and yeah he's dork
9:28
pointless actually i wanted him bumped off but anyway yeah.
9:36
But at the same time, then we're introduced to Mitch. Mitch is pretty much a scam artist. Yeah.
9:42
He's a private eye, but he's pretty much just blackmailing what he catches.
9:46
We find out that she hired him back to track back who she is.
9:52
She's hired all these different detectives.
9:54
Then we find out that they found something in 1987. There was a file on her.
9:59
They have found it. So let's contact her now so we can let her know we might find out who she is.
10:04
Then we find out there's a guy in a prison with
10:07
one eye jack who was he's watching the prison parade i don't know how he's watching
10:11
the parade in the prison pretty convenient he sees that it's her it's it's it's
10:17
a girl he breaks out to go get revenge on her we then we just it's a massive
10:22
data dump and it's done like 20 minutes or something like that exactly but it's so smooth,
10:27
i did i did sort of laugh where when basically you know she's basically her
10:33
former life she was this cold-blooded psycho, you know, took no nonsense.
10:37
And it turns out she's from Belfast! You know?
10:42
So I did laugh at that.
10:44
That would be great if she had, when she comes out of her amnesia,
10:48
when she's, you know, in the water, and she goes, top of the morning to you, lass.
10:52
Yeah, well, that's not a Belfast accent, that's more like Dublin,
10:55
but Belfast would be I don't know, go fuck.
10:57
Everybody's mean, mate, what the fuck are you talking about?
10:59
I lock your bollocks in. You know, that would have been more Belfast.
11:02
Now then that'll be an odd transition for her to become Charlie with using subtitles
11:08
oh yeah well exactly yeah it wouldn't work yeah stick with Darby O'Gillan the little people maybe.
11:16
Yeah, so here's those little subtle moments when she's driving the drunk guy
11:19
home. She gets a car accident and breaks the deer's neck. Yep.
11:23
And then she passes out. And this was where she starts having these flashbacks.
11:27
I do think it's funny. She has these flashbacks, and they're like very dream-esque
11:31
flashbacks, and it's kind of haunting. Like with herself in the car.
11:35
It reminded me of Freddy Krueger when, you know, like Renee Harlan,
11:40
you know, waking at his old dream master days because the
11:43
sequence are very dreamlike and the charlie character
11:46
that she sees in the mirror in her dreams is very
11:49
got a very horror kind of tone to her
11:52
very freddy it doesn't feel it actually
11:55
feels out of place for an 80s 90s thriller
11:58
if you know what i mean whereas you wouldn't have got scenes like
12:01
this in something like lethal weapon or
12:05
maybe con or die hard or whatever so it
12:08
does feel well you're not because you got to realize her her
12:12
whole thing is she's in a dreamlike state pretty much right now and she
12:16
is having these visions because of what's just happened in the action is it's
12:21
you know not you know knocked your box a bit so well her brain not the other
12:26
box sorry but sorry what do you mean stephan glue or something.
12:37
This is actually a very so far this has actually been a very sort of i'm sensible
12:42
podcast by us what you're saying something and then you just threw that in what
12:46
the fuck i didn't mean it was just i do because you know people go what do you
12:51
mean by box so i had a fraud and slip as it's known.
12:58
Uh we'll blame you on that one so thanks uh so
13:02
yeah but no you
13:06
wouldn't get that so you got to realize she's been that massive action get that
13:09
blood plop you know out of phase massive concussion whatever happened over there
13:13
and so it's it's knocked something loose there so that's why she's having these
13:18
images and it's going to be horror because the little happy, you know,
13:24
picket fences town that she's in right now is about to be taken away to pretty
13:29
much a violence killer, is what she is.
13:32
And that is why you can get away with a slightly horror tone to her's images.
13:41
But I would say for this type of story, this type of spy thriller,
13:46
born identity type thriller, i prefer it
13:49
handled a bit more seriously as opposed
13:53
to having it mixed up with a
13:56
90s action film and i think that's probably what jars the most with me for this
14:02
film but you know but there's only it's only one scene yes i know that there
14:06
but i mean for the story overall with her being the secret agent waking up out
14:10
of a coma basically you know where amnesia goes away and she discovers which is a secret agent.
14:14
I prefer these types of spy thrillers to be much more serious in tone,
14:19
but that's just me. That's a personal preference.
14:21
But we just talked about why Shane Black works. Yeah.
14:27
And what die hard, lethal weapon, 48 hours.
14:31
It's that elements of comedy that could, that allow this film to get away with
14:36
some of the serious tones. It does have.
14:38
But now you're saying you're like, you don't like, no, no, I'm just saying,
14:40
I don't think it fits well with this type of spy.
14:43
It works well with a buddy cop film or, you know, or something like that.
14:47
Well, it technically is a buddy cop film. Yeah, it is. And it isn't.
14:49
It's more to me, it's more of a, a nineties action film.
14:53
But with the whole sort of spy thriller elements, you know what the problem was?
14:58
See, in my mind when I was watching this, I was subconsciously comparing it to The Bourne Identity.
15:04
Also started with Brian Cox, actually. Actually, Brian Cox popping up probably
15:08
made it even worse for me.
15:10
So that was a sort of issue in my head.
15:14
But that's not this movie's fault. Pardon?
15:17
It's not that movie's fault, though. I know. I just said that.
15:20
It's me subconsciously. Okay, but you know Bourne came out later.
15:22
Yes, I know. Not the Richard Chamberlain one back in the 80s.
15:24
You're talking about Matt Damon. I'm talking about Matt Damon ones,
15:27
yeah. Yeah, but that wasn't produced yet.
15:30
I know, but I'm talking about it. That's not fair to this film. I know that.
15:33
I'm agreeing, and I'm saying that that's on me through watching this through
15:39
the podcast tonight. So, yeah. All right.
15:42
All right. But it's got elements of her transition kind of nicely.
15:47
The vegetable scene is kind of fun. Yeah. You know, it's got this playful banter.
15:51
She's playing with her kids. and she realizes she can fucking cut onions and shit.
15:54
She must be a chef. And then the music's all playful.
15:58
And then all of a sudden she takes the knife and whips it and hits the picture.
16:02
And all of a sudden the music tone stops.
16:06
She should have just. And Hal's face is like, oh fuck.
16:09
Yeah, she should have just knifed her, threw a knife through his skull,
16:12
got rid of him, the dumb ass boyfriend. But anyway.
16:16
Wow, you're a sick fuck. No, no, that would have added more to this.
16:19
I would have took her more serious.
16:22
As a cold-blooded killer. And then made a one-liner.
16:26
A one-liner, a body-cut one-liner would have really worked there.
16:29
That's what chefs do, dickhead.
16:32
So we got Timothy, who's the big bad guy here, played Greg Bierko,
16:37
and he was the one hired by the cabinet, I think they're called or something
16:42
like that. I can't remember what they're called here. I got it in my notes.
16:45
Yeah, they're basically like a sort of ex-files type government within the government type thing.
16:50
Yeah. And Timothy was a hired gun with one-eyed Jack, who we met there in prison.
16:56
They have found out that Charlie Baltimore is still alive and you need to finish
17:02
the job because Timothy was the one to do the job.
17:04
But we find out he's called the other guy.
17:07
He has the other henchman do it. And the reason he's called one-eyed Jack is
17:10
because Charlie gives him the one eye.
17:12
Yeah. He's actually the worst. Well, I mean, all of the henchmen here are terrible,
17:16
but he's particularly bad, you know?
17:19
And it's a thing, I know it's a cliche and I know that the plot has to be forwarded but you know,
17:25
the henchmen here are worse than Stormtroopers in Star Wars at being bad shots
17:30
or their guns jamming or stuff like that and it does niggle me but these things
17:36
still go on in films these days I get that what happens but they do niggle me Alright.
17:43
But one guy is particularly bad He happens to Die Hard 2 I know, I know,
17:48
I'm just saying, you're nitpicking at something that's been,
17:51
we all know, is cliché in the business.
17:54
I know. I've just said that. But you never bring it up in other films.
17:58
I know, but it's I know what it is. I know I figured it out.
18:02
Figured it out. Why? You're sexist.
18:04
What? You're a sexist pig. What's that got to do with sexism?
18:09
Because there's a lead role as a woman.
18:11
Actually, right, nothing to do with sexism, but I would say that Gina Davis
18:16
doesn't overall sell it to me as the sort of badass secret agent and cold-blooded killer.
18:24
None to do with her being a woman. Because she's a woman. Nope.
18:28
None to do with her being a woman.
18:29
If this was John Travolta, you'd be like, oh yeah, I saw that. That's brilliant.
18:34
Apart from Pulp Fiction, I'm not a fan of basically, well, maybe face-off,
18:38
I'm not really a fan of any of John Travolta's. Well, Carrie,
18:41
I like him, Carrie, actually.
18:44
And Blowout. Oh, Blowout's a piece of shit. Well, Blowout, sorry,
18:46
Blowout, sorry. Sarah Fever is a piece of shit.
18:49
What about Look Who's Talking 2? That's a classic. That's a classic.
18:53
No, I don't think... Geena Davis is great in some roles, especially the remake
18:58
of The Fly with Cronenberg.
19:00
Of course that's the role you're going to pick because it's Cronenberg.
19:04
She's not an action star to me. Nah, I disagree with that.
19:08
Nah, I saw a hint of it with Delma and Louise. And then this is awesome.
19:13
Delma and Louise isn't really an action film, though. It has its elements,
19:17
but yeah, it's not, yes, it's not an action, but there's elements of it there.
19:21
So you can see this direction, why she would go in this direction.
19:25
But my point is, after the sexist comment you made, I completely disagree with
19:32
you because she's playing it suddenly.
19:35
She's not going to, you want her to go from, she's a school mom,
19:38
she's got a kid, blah, blah.
19:40
Don't interrupt. Why do you interrupt you when I'm trying to give you a fucking
19:43
explanation? great go ahead,
19:46
I mean, you sexists are just always interrupting people.
19:53
Especially women. There he is.
19:57
Go ahead. Stop trying to mansplain to me. You know what I mean?
20:01
Talking over me and then mansplaining to me.
20:04
You know who says that? You know who says stuff like that? Sexist. Sexist.
20:10
Right, go ahead. You were mansplaining. Go ahead. she
20:14
has to play it going from a hee hee hee
20:17
happy go lucky mom teacher to a
20:20
violent serial killer pretty much an assassin alright but you want her to come
20:26
out of the water when she's being tortured as the fucking joker from fucking
20:30
batman and you want her to go yeah that's not the way it is she's a subtle cold
20:36
bloody killer that's the character and the reason she was.
20:40
And the reason, actually, she was going to be killed by the team is because she didn't want to do...
20:48
Operation Honeymoon? Operation Honeymoon, if I'm not mistaken.
20:52
Yes, I believe so, yes. Yeah, pretty much.
20:54
So she's not... You're not going to get the over-the-top lunacy of Gary Oldman
21:03
or Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction to this character.
21:08
I wasn't looking at that. I was looking intensity and you don't really get it
21:12
here, especially later on whenever she goes full on Charlie and she dies of
21:16
hers, blonde and stuff you know, I just,
21:19
maybe it was the mood I was in watching it, I don't know but I just wasn't,
21:23
I just didn't buy it, I'm sorry I can't help it you know what I mean?
21:26
That's fine, no I mean that's fine you know who is by far the best written character
21:30
oh Samuel Jackson by far by far, yes yeah, he's got the best,
21:36
we talk about arcs a lot this and he's shown he has them.
21:40
The film talking about when she's chopping up the vegetables and then you see
21:44
her, the way she talks to her kid when the ice skating, they do a nice job of
21:48
planting the seed a little bit with elements that are going to be peppered back in later,
21:52
especially the ice skating seed, which I really enjoy the action scene that is coming up.
21:56
But she doesn't realize when her kid fell, she says, suck it up.
22:01
You know, life is full of blah, blah. Life's tough, yeah.
22:04
Life's tough. Life is pain. Get used to it, kid. You won't fall again. Life from Belfast.
22:12
So but it turns out she did have a broken wrist but those kind of things are just,
22:18
you know and it's done quickly and you kind of get that she's trying to she's
22:24
starting to remember or her old persona is trying to come out and they do that
22:30
well and i do and i and i think that's,
22:33
where you're kind of you wanted more i do think you want a little more.
22:38
Intensity yeah yeah maybe it may maybe but
22:42
i think we get enough of that with with timothy's
22:46
character so i don't think we need because he does it
22:49
way over the top i don't think we need two of them on there but she says some
22:52
shit to him and and what she does to samuel jackson she does say some stuff
22:57
that is you know way outside the character of what we just you know get in the
23:02
well there's also to be fair there's also the scene where she literally kicks
23:06
him out of the car because he's no more used to her.
23:09
But then she realizes she does need him for something, so she goes back and picks him up.
23:12
So she does treat him like shit. But that's my point. That's you don't need it to be spoonfed you.
23:19
I'm not going to spoonfed. I kind of do. I think you do. No,
23:23
no. I'm looking at more intensity and more drama. You know what I mean?
23:27
That's not drama? The way she treats him? It is a bit.
23:30
You know, that's a very good scene, particularly the scenes with Samuel L.
23:34
Jackson. Well, that's all the scenes.
23:36
Yeah i know but i just i don't know i think it's
23:39
down to genie davis's performance i just didn't i just
23:42
i find it hard to buy her as as a covert secret agent who's woken up from years
23:48
of amnesia i just think there would be more trauma there i wanted more gritty
23:52
intensity you know well you would think that you would think that but the way
23:57
they bring her out i like now i like the scene where, you know,
24:02
the one-eyed Jack shows up and they're fighting.
24:05
And that's a fun scene to watch, actually.
24:08
And I just love the way she breaks his skull and then breaks his neck.
24:13
Fuck, it's awesome. Well, he deserves it because he's such a fucking idiot, you know?
24:17
And, you know, he's like the useless henchman, so he deserved it, you know?
24:22
And then Hal sees the whole thing. He's like, okay.
24:25
And then it cuts to, we're going to find out what's going on here. Yeah.
24:29
Can he get her out? Can we get her out of the house, please?
24:34
So that's when Samuel comes along and he basically, it becomes almost like a
24:38
road movie actually in part. It is.
24:41
This is the lethal weapon, the 48 hours.
24:44
This is the buddy cop movie, right? But one's a spy, one's in a cop or an ex-cop. Yeah.
24:52
I would say, I think Brian Cox's character and Brian Cox is wasted here.
24:57
I would have liked to have seen more of him. No, we've got too many cooks in
25:00
the kitchen. and I like the fact he's introducing Kill.
25:05
Jason Bourne did that quite a bit. They did that with Paddy Constantine in the
25:08
beginning of, I think it was Bourne.
25:10
It is good for the sort of dramatic side of things.
25:14
You know? Yeah, and you get... I like Brian Cox. And it's decent to get an actor
25:18
of Brian Cox's caliber, knowing he's only going to be in it for one or two scenes,
25:22
and they're going to kill you off as a surprise.
25:25
They started doing that. The drowning torture scene with David Morse is,
25:31
even though it is a bit cliched where they're escaping a bit too quick,
25:34
but it is actually overall very well done.
25:36
I love that scene because remember he plants, Brian Cox plants a seed in the car to Mitch.
25:43
Yeah, I carry three sidearms, one on my leg, one on my house and one between
25:47
my legs because no man wants to feel another man's dick.
25:51
So that's where she remembers that conversation. The writing is very Shane Black.
25:58
He plants a seed for of these little things to come back and to bite a certain
26:02
character in the ass is pretty much how it works.
26:05
And the torture scene is pretty nice. I do like, this is Hollywood cliche,
26:10
and I love it because, you know, but it goes beginning when we're talking about
26:15
how you kind of get out of these things.
26:17
Yeah, it's too easy. The body's right next to her and underneath the water.
26:20
Yeah, exactly. Way too convenient. And also the cliche of instead of just killing Samuel L.
26:27
Jackson, they decide to keep him alive for whatever reason, just so the plot can be forwarded.
26:33
Yes there is a lot of cliches going on but you
26:36
know what even in stuff like i know why i've been talking recently
26:39
about you know how great the penguin is stuff like this
26:42
happens in the penguin there's always people getting kidnapped by
26:44
their rivals and escaping too easily so these things are
26:48
tried and tested cliches let's just say well it has to happen and then you got
26:52
you've got timothy talking to luke they're going listen man she's a badass we
26:57
want her gone you know what i'm saying yeah no problem so i'm actually going
27:01
to take the my other bad guys and myself away.
27:06
And you are going to be by yourself with her now yeah yeah
27:09
or instead of going through the whole convoluted torture water
27:13
scene just shooting her in the head and be done with it you
27:16
know what i mean you know it's but yes
27:19
the plot has to be forwarded of course uh but
27:22
i do like it i do like the whole scene as she's it's well being
27:25
dipped as she's being dipped in the water it's fucking phrasing so
27:28
now she's starting to come of you know
27:31
full well you can see her lips going blue and stuff and you know you can see
27:35
her her face is white and stuff so it's very it's well done yeah but it's also
27:40
yes he's but that's also why her character is coming full forward now yeah and
27:45
and then the final dip uh right no not before the final right before the final dip.
27:51
She pretty much tells him, I'm going to fucking kill you now because now she's turned.
27:56
And then, and then where she's dipping her in the water, he just,
27:59
she just gives him a grin.
28:00
Yeah. Almost like a joker kind of grin. And then she knows right away to get the gun.
28:05
Cause he, she's full character now and comes out and blows his fucking head off. It's awesome.
28:11
Okay. Yeah. And then that's when basically her and Samuel L.
28:14
Jackson continue their road trip and she then becomes full on Charlie.
28:18
So she does. And I do her blonde.
28:21
Yeah, she looked hot in the blonde.
28:24
I wasn't really convinced. In terms of, well, I mean, you know,
28:27
you're accusing me of sexist. I wasn't really convinced.
28:29
You're accusing me of being sexist, but you said, yeah, but she looked hot,
28:32
but she was blonde. You know what I mean?
28:34
But all I've said is I wasn't convinced that she was a badass secret agent killer.
28:40
Even when she dies, you're her blonde, you know?
28:43
Oh, come on. When she walks up to Samuel Jackson and rips off the badge,
28:47
she rips that band-aid off him, the badge off him. and he's in pain and he goes, why did you do that?
28:52
He goes, it's the same principle as deflowering virgins.
28:56
But this guy has a theory, if you bite them in the ear, it distracts them from the pain.
29:01
And then she goes, have you ever tried that? And he goes, no,
29:06
I just sucked them in the jaw and said, pop goes the weasel.
29:10
Yeah, well I mean, Samuel L. Jackson, you know what I mean?
29:13
He could be reading from the telephone group and he would make it sound great.
29:17
But you know he is the best in this by far but I'm sorry I've said it before
29:23
I just can't buy Geena Davis in this type of role I just can't yeah.
29:30
There's a word for that, but that's cool. That's cool. If she had a penis, it would be acceptable.
29:36
If she had a penis, you'd be like, yeah. Not at all. There have been loads of
29:39
female action stars, which I'm a big fan of. Give me one.
29:43
Uma Thurman as the bride in Kill Bill. There you go, off the top of my head.
29:48
I would say, I mean, obviously you can go back to Sarah Connor and stuff.
29:51
There are the sort of cliched ones, the ones that are way out of the door.
29:56
Angela Bassett from Strange Days. Jamie Lee Curtis from Halloween.
30:00
Adrian Bobo from The Fog. You've got Ripley.
30:03
I can keep going, man. I can keep going. But they're like Jamie Lee Curtis on
30:07
Halloween and stuff. They aren't really action stars.
30:09
Oh, my God. You're saying Jamie Lee can act?
30:13
Halloween's not an action film. You just said Jamie Lee can't act.
30:18
No, she can't. Wow. It's not an action role. That's what I'm saying.
30:23
It's not an action film. It's a fucking horror film. Meeting roles for films. True lies.
30:29
You're saying she's terrible in True Lies I haven't watched that in a while
30:32
to be fair oh my god you hate Jimmy Lee Curtis no I like Jimmy Lee Curtis,
30:37
which is not a spy action thriller star part from True Lies I would have to
30:42
watch that again though to be fair True Lies that's a pretty big one yeah I
30:45
know it is but I would have to watch it again that's what I'm saying you know,
30:49
yeah you're the sexist pig you're the one you're the sexist not at all not at all so I do like.
30:59
I'm trying to figure out where the location of the house was so when she goes
31:03
back to the house she tells about that case 227 the case that has all the money
31:06
and passports in it that she's planning to run away with yeah so she wants to
31:11
go get but she has to get from the charm,
31:14
You know, that she gave her kid. Yes. That's the key. Yeah. Yeah, the kid is key.
31:20
And then the bad guys show up, and then he's, Mitch is driving through the streets
31:25
of a small town in the car chase, which works, actually.
31:29
It's nice. There's a small town, and there's actually cars they're trying to
31:32
maneuver away from. It's not empty streets.
31:34
But they, but she can't get to him in time, so she's got to put the skates on
31:39
and skate across the lake. So I'm trying to figure out how big this fucking lake is.
31:43
Yeah. And she's skating, she's skating, and she obviously blows.
31:47
She aims for the tire and then takes them all out.
31:50
There's something about that scene I really enjoy as much as it's over the top.
31:55
It's kind of like the sequence with when they go to that City Hall building
32:01
when they first meet and they try to plan. I was thinking that.
32:05
The issues I have with these types of scenes, yes, they're over the top,
32:09
it's not with Geena Davis, actually. it's with the absolutely rubbish henchmen,
32:13
you know, who are just basically No, no, these guys are Yeah, they are bad.
32:20
None of them hits them. But I do like when they throw the grenade.
32:26
No, I'm not a grenade expert, okay, by any means.
32:29
But it was a pretty big, it was a small grenade, right? And so when it goes
32:34
off, the whole building is like napalm.
32:37
And then they jump out the window, which I do like. because again
32:41
it shows they have to do it because they want to show how cool
32:44
she is under pressure and she shoots the
32:47
glass and then the ice below her it's a
32:50
good scene though but yeah it is i
32:53
would have liked to have had i would have liked to have for the film to have
32:57
had more scenes with her and the main bad guy who is basically the father of
33:04
her child as it's revealed you know because that scene where she reveals to
33:08
him is actually very well done and very dramatic later on.
33:12
I'd like to have seen more scenes with those two because was actually very strong
33:17
and some of the strongest stuff of the film.
33:19
Yeah, but I don't think you needed it because he's a sociopath so there wasn't
33:24
much to go with on that one.
33:26
I wanted him to redeem himself seriously in terms of... How?
33:30
Because he's realized he has a daughter. That would have been a good arc.
33:34
That would have been the stupidest fucking movie ever. No, I'm not talking about...
33:40
Oh you know what no no i'm talking about before he dies
33:43
like you know because obviously he has to die we all know
33:46
that there but he has like one final glimmer of
33:49
humanity or somewhere he does in that scene and you
33:52
missed it yeah no i did i did you did
33:54
not you missed it i caught it yes but i want to like more i wasn't
33:57
going to redeem himself like by um sort of
34:00
like with his final act before he dies because we all know that
34:03
he has to be bumped off for him to like do something like
34:06
i don't know like kill the other bad guy
34:09
you know the guy who was sort of like who had employed him
34:12
you know i mean this undercover government thing that
34:15
we're looking to create you know a basically a terrorist
34:18
attack you know so they get blackmail congress so maybe
34:21
something like that you know just a little sort of glimpse i'm not talking about
34:24
a food redemption and to go away and live together okay okay it was it's your
34:28
yeah it wouldn't be stupid as hell if they did that because that's not what
34:32
i'm talking about like when he when he kidnaps caitlin and the woman and the
34:35
sheriff sees him doing it and he puts a knife to the woman's kids and he goes,
34:40
you say one word and you'll have about 2.4 children left.
34:45
He's actually quite good in the road.
34:47
Yeah, I like him. Spicey, he never really took off. He knew much. He's a lot of comedy.
34:53
He's a lot of comedy. Yeah, yeah. No, you can see that he sort of has a sort
34:59
of bit of a sort of knack for comedy as well.
35:01
The way he's sort of, you know, sort of hamming it up a bit.
35:05
I do. Yeah, we'll stick with him because he makes it. I mean,
35:10
the lines are so over the top.
35:12
So when he says, we're going to go to Niagara Falls, and then this is where
35:16
she remembers Operation Honeymoon. Yeah.
35:19
And he goes to her on the phone, you fuck with me.
35:23
I will blind the kid and shoot out her knees. Yeah.
35:29
He's a butt bastard. Yeah, yeah. It's so over the top, but he does it so straight.
35:34
Usually you can get like Gary Oldman. He'll jump out and just go,
35:36
you know, batshit crazy on you. Right. The best comedy is played straight.
35:41
Yeah. You know, he's very subtle at it. Very subtle and just reserved.
35:45
You know, now when I like the scene, we, you talk about having special moments in the film.
35:54
You do get them, but they're only a glimpse because we don't want that.
35:59
We want guns and killing.
36:01
And, but they do put it. There's a scene where she just realizes it's just not
36:06
Timothy and his team. It's a whole fucking army.
36:09
So she knows she's dead. And she turns to Miss to say goodbye.
36:14
Yeah. And she goes, they're going to say goodbye to me because they're going
36:19
to blow my head off. This is the last time you'll see me pretty.
36:23
But I think that kind of, now again, I'm probably giving the writer too much
36:27
credit, but I do like Shane Black. So I think there was a little double meaning in that comment.
36:34
I think what she meant was that A, either she's not going to make this and goodbye,
36:40
but the other one is she's no longer...
36:44
Our personality. She's no longer that person anymore. She wants to be Samantha.
36:49
Yeah. And that's why she says, I'm no longer going to be this pretty.
36:52
Yeah. So I think there's a couple of double meetings there.
36:56
But it was quick. A lot of people won't catch it.
36:59
And it's probably all sentence long, sentence long.
37:02
But that's where we talk about the Timothy scene coming up here.
37:06
So this is where it just goes balls to the wall crazy. The rest of this film
37:09
is balls to the wall fucking insane.
37:12
And I fucking love it.
37:15
Every moment of it. It's so stupid.
37:19
But I do like, this is what I do like. Just like Bruce Willis in Die Hard.
37:25
These guys aren't coming out clean and all, you know, I got to sweat. Ooh, I got to splinter.
37:32
These guys get their ass handed to them.
37:37
But you go with it. But you go with it. It is over the top and stupid,
37:40
but it is a big explosive 90s action finale. They even threw in a Tekken bomb, you know, why not?
37:49
Well, this is where I think the film plays. I mentioned in the beginning,
37:54
it plays with the cheese facto from the 80s, which Shane Black started with.
37:58
You got that lethal weapon as well.
38:01
So it keeps that 90s edge with some of the darker lines, kids involved now,
38:09
and troublesome backstory.
38:11
Story, but then you fucking just go to town at the end. You're like,
38:15
ah, fuck it. Let's just blow everything up.
38:17
Yeah. And that's what we get.
38:19
Now, little things like when Perkins, the head of this whole thing,
38:23
gives Caitlyn that doll, that doll comes back into place. Yeah.
38:28
The candle. The candle from the refrigerator thing?
38:31
Yeah. The candle, the matches. Yeah. That comes all back into play.
38:36
These little touches, they pepper it in the beginning of the film,
38:40
all come back into play now when they
38:45
she's trapped in the freezer right and
38:49
she tells timothy you're not going to kill your own kid well she doesn't
38:51
really say that she says look look in her eyes yeah she's yours or something
38:56
like that and so he grabs her and okay let me see this little bring bring that
39:03
little bitch over here it's like damn dude your daughter yeah i know and And he looks at her and for.
39:11
A fleeting second, he looks at her eyes and he says, fuck, she is my kid.
39:16
There was a moment right there of humility. I mean, a split second.
39:21
I know, I remember. Yep. And it is well done.
39:25
Gina Davis says, basically, you don't believe it's your daughter.
39:27
Basically, check out her eyes. She's got your eyes.
39:30
And that's when he looks into her eyes and he realizes it. Yes, yes.
39:34
That's the sort of stuff I was talking about earlier that I would have liked to have seen more of.
39:39
Why? We don't need it. because just
39:42
to give us more dramatic weight oh dear god
39:45
what do you want me cry as he's closing the door on
39:48
him you just want bombs and explosions
39:51
and grenades and henchmen that couldn't have had a fucking sitting duck far
39:55
enough but i was just looking for something with a bit more sort of weight on
39:59
top of all of that you're yeah you're i don't i don't you need a spoon fed or
40:04
something that's cool that's not at all no no you do you do you do don't worry
40:07
about it don't worry about it.
40:10
Sexist spoon-fed action film got it that's that's
40:13
got it you know this is the thing
40:16
with this here i don't i don't think it quite there's too
40:19
many stuff there's too much sort of stuff going on with the
40:22
script you know is it a body cop drama is it an action film
40:25
is it dramatic stuff yes yes you're explaining i
40:28
would like to i would like you're explaining you're
40:31
explaining lethal weapon right now you're explain let me finish you're explaining lethal
40:34
weapon and die hard right now yeah but i would like for
40:37
it to have been more focused on one yes it's
40:40
the same as sort of you know lethal weapon especially the first couple and
40:44
stuff but yeah i just i would
40:47
have liked more moments where you catch your breath and there's
40:50
a bit more of a dramatic sort of element
40:53
there is there's plenty of it especially with mitch and her when he
40:56
even tells her i don't like you i don't like this side of you what happened
40:59
uh like i want to burn the cookies i want
41:02
you know you know he like he even tells you that yeah you
41:06
get you get it then you get small little blimpses of it that's all you
41:08
need it's all you need but again that's cool you want
41:11
a hallmark moment you know and maybe i spoiled you with your dolly christmas
41:16
and dolly woods so maybe that's your problem maybe you're spoiled because you
41:20
i was looking proper drama not so no it's okay the explosions and stuff and
41:24
don't get me wrong i mean you know i like my sort of craziness as well you know
41:28
what i mean that's there's plenty of it you just didn't you just didn't see it.
41:32
Right, okay. You did it. Right. She wanted to get rid of the kid. She had an abortion.
41:37
She had, I mean, there's lots of fucking elements in it. What?
41:41
Lots of these elements in it. Oh, right.
41:44
What's when you're laughing? I know, but it's a deal. She got an easier.
41:47
She didn't realize what was going on.
41:48
But the character that she was didn't want the child. No, it's a deal with the
41:52
delivery of it. I noticed it.
41:55
Yeah, no, it's there, obviously, you know what I mean? You didn't know it was there.
41:59
Right, okay. fair enough but no no what i'm saying is to do with the delivery
42:03
it's not delivered as well here as the previous ones i mentioned,
42:07
Anyways, sorry about the sexist rant. Yeah, but you? No. She's hot when she's blonde.
42:18
Damn right. So when he leaves them in the locker, I do like the line when she
42:22
looks at him and goes, you're going to die screaming and I'm going to watch. I love that.
42:26
That's a good line. But so she's got that plan. You know, I won't go to details to get them out.
42:33
She just needs a little spark because that whole room is gasoline outside.
42:37
Literally a spark. Yeah. Yeah.
42:39
It's all she needs. But anyways, again, day to day dump, there's Tim going,
42:45
okay, Samuel, this guy's the luckiest bastard.
42:48
He sees me, he's the last person they're going to kill.
42:51
Yeah. So he goes, yeah, I'm going to give you a choice. Do you want to die by
42:56
knife or do you want to die by the gun?
42:59
And then as he's about to kill him, she sets off the explosion in his chair. How convenient.
43:06
That's the whole point of though he flies through yeah I know but there's also
43:12
you know parts where you know where the bad guys go well you're gonna die anyway
43:17
so I might as well tell you our dastardly plan that's.
43:22
Every cliche in every action film and I'll fucking take it it started with James
43:29
Bond yeah James Bond villain cliche exactly,
43:34
yeah so we meet again mr bond oh
43:39
my god so he's pretty much dead and pretty much she's pretty much dead she's
43:46
hanging on and she uh see the little kid caitlin runs into a little truck as
43:53
we know but this whole sequence where he's gonna sell again we talk about arcs All joking aside,
43:59
Samuel Jackson does have the best
44:00
because here's a guy who did steal bonds when he was a police officer.
44:04
He was in prison for four years, has tried to do a little better, but he really hasn't.
44:09
He's still a con man playing a PI.
44:12
His kid. Yeah, his kid. I've seen him with his kid.
44:17
And I like the part where when he goes to see his kid and she goes,
44:21
he goes, Daddy, I can't take the toys because they're probably stolen.
44:24
Mom would have one. And there's a moment there where you've really felt sorry for Samuel Jackson.
44:29
And the great thing about Samuel Jackson, the way he sells it is he doesn't
44:32
go off like a cliche. Oh, woman, why don't you take my, you know, blah, blah.
44:36
He understands why the mom won't take it. Well, but he can do subtlety. Yes.
44:40
Yeah. And that's part of the writing as well, of course. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
44:45
But I do like that she's got his back. She's doing on the snipering. Yeah.
44:52
And it is a sort of a buddy cop sort of, well, any sort of double act sort of
44:57
cliche, but it works. It does work well here.
44:59
Where at first, even when we go back to even romantic comedies,
45:03
you know, where at first they don't get along, they hate each other,
45:05
but then they grow to respect each other. And eventually they're a team, you know?
45:10
That's yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's fair enough. I, you know.
45:14
Hey god she's in the truck and this truck has to bomb so they want to cause
45:19
a fake terror explosion because they're not getting the funding they want so
45:23
they want to blackmail congress yeah yeah so,
45:28
it's actually quite eerie this actually in terms of i know this was released
45:32
in like 96 or 97 i think but what they're talking about you know there's talk
45:37
of you know faking attacks on the terrorist attacks on Twin Towers and stuff.
45:41
So it's quite- That did happen in 92.
45:43
Yes, I know that, but it just, you know, with it happening, obviously, again in 2001.
45:48
Yeah. I didn't, yeah, but it's just a film, so I'm not going to read beyond that. No, obviously.
45:55
So, yeah, so she gets in the fucking truck and the Blake Fruitt's been hit,
46:02
so it's all, you know, it's leaking out, and she's on a hill.
46:06
Yep. So she can't stop, and then she decides I'm just going to hit the fucking
46:10
wall and she's just suck my dick that's right that's the best line in the film
46:15
that's a good line that's a good line there are some really good one liners
46:18
in this actually but that's the best you know.
46:22
I do like the fight scene between her and Timothy. He's pretty much got her.
46:26
He's knifering her pretty good. This is where she's almost dying.
46:29
But then he falls. There's no way he survived this, but what the hell?
46:33
He falls, and he comes out of the water from the icy grave.
46:38
But you have to get the final scar, you know? We need that scream moment,
46:41
right? Isn't that what he says? The screaming moment?
46:43
The final sort of scar, yeah.
46:46
And then the daughter. The previously dead bad guy returns, you know?
46:50
I'm going to think of the daughter and she's the daughter's giving her life is pain mom life is pain,
46:58
by the way the young actors play the daughters terrible but I mean it's an 80s
47:03
and 90s you gotta expect that I don't think she was bad, I don't like kids but
47:07
she was alright, she didn't bother me I never rolled my eyes,
47:12
oh she's a kid I know, I know what I'm just saying,
47:16
I didn't buy that scene, let's just
47:19
say you know so as she's
47:22
dead her eyes are you know open but
47:25
she's dead clearly yes he's by this by
47:28
the power of her by the power of caitlin's love yep love saves the day and then
47:33
there's two minutes left here comes mitch who i thought was dead he comes he
47:40
comes crashing through well 18 he does an 18 moment where the car jumps through
47:44
i don't know like all like a truck or something yeah.
47:49
And and then here comes timothy he flies he
47:52
coming up with the helicopter i do like what she
47:55
when she sees one of the guys who had his gun hanging from
47:57
the christmas lights when he fell yes she cuts it grabs it from him and you
48:04
know obviously kills our boy yeah with like one second to go before the bomb
48:08
explodes that's good stuff and then she gets the money she kills a grasshopper at the end,
48:18
and mitch gets to go on larry king live to
48:21
spill the beans to bring down everybody yeah
48:25
but but he's but he's also then earns the respect of
48:27
his ex-wife and son you know that's right
48:30
that's the important thing yep exactly yeah i mean there is some good stuff
48:35
here overall i would say i'm on the fence i have to be honest i don't dislike
48:40
it you know it is what it is and there's some very good stuff here some incredibly
48:46
stupid stuff that did bug me so being honest on the fence.
48:51
I'm saying it from a non-sexist point of view I um oh go ahead you gonna mansplain
48:57
again to our female listeners,
49:02
you said it didn't work it's unfortunate I do think not all of it let me finish
49:07
please go ahead No, it's just you interrupt when I'm trying to give my review every time. What?
49:16
I hate like people. This is why it's Trevor there. I'm saying it right now.
49:22
Naughty. Oh dear God.
49:25
What? Anyways.
49:28
So, and all the elements work. It peppers in the little, the little Easter eggs
49:34
that are going to be coming back to you.
49:35
The, the, the, the action is fucking bullshit.
49:39
Crazy. It's actually quite subtle in the first three quarters.
49:43
And then obviously we go all batshit crazy at the end.
49:46
Which I kind of liked that. So it was kind of like a pop boiler with the action.
49:50
As she became more of her true self, the action got upgraded as she changed.
49:56
So I thought that was kind of cool because she wouldn't be as action crazy because
50:02
she wouldn't have that element in her mind yet.
50:04
So I liked the subtlety of that and how they handled the action.
50:08
I liked how they handled all the characters in general.
50:13
Nice little cameo, Brian Cox, David Morse. They all had a part, but the part had merit.
50:20
And it goes without saying Samuel Jackson does steal the movie,
50:24
and so does Greg Bierko, who plays Timothy.
50:28
But they all came there to do the job, and they've done it. And I haven't seen
50:31
this in a while. I'll pleasantly watch it again. So massive pass for Long Kiss Goodnight.
50:37
So there you go. We're going to wrap this one up. This is way too fucking long.
50:41
I'm going to edit some of this, and we're still going to be too long.
50:44
But you know what it was good opening we talked about cool people yeah harlan
50:52
shane black we got to reminisce about die hard and lethal weapon which we do
50:56
pretty much every podcast.
50:59
But it's all good fun all right listen thank you guys so that's it guys give
51:05
us a shout at citizen frame underscore podcast and instagram of course facebook
51:09
the new issue of phantasmgoria is out now.
51:13
Go get it locally here at Belfast at Forbidden Planet, and of course,
51:17
worldwide on Amazon. Yep.
51:22
That's all I've got. We're ending this one. Because Trevor's upset me.
51:26
And I apologize to all of our lady listeners.
51:29
We're a sexist rant. And Kieran's mansplaining to you. There you go.
51:34
Alright. All the best. Out of here.
51:39
Music.