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How a Red State City Fell in Love With Muslim Immigrants · Trumponomics

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  Speaker 1: America's post industrial rust belt is a landscape where you'd
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  Speaker 1: think Donald Trump's anti immigrant message struck a chord. But
• 0:09
  Speaker 1: all isn't as it seems. Even in Missouri, a state
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  Speaker 1: that went overwhelmingly for the President in November, we're talking
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  Speaker 1: about St. Louis and where a wave of immigrants from Bosnia,
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  Speaker 1: many of the Muslim have helped revitalize this economy. And
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  Speaker 1: it's not just St. Louis. The same things going on
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  Speaker 1: in once mighty manufacturing powerhouses such as Detroit, Cleveland, and
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  Speaker 1: even Lowell, Massachusetts. This week on Benchmark, we examine how
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  Speaker 1: the global economy came to Middle America and Middle America
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  Speaker 1: never looked back. I'm Daniel Moss, executive editor for Global
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  Speaker 1: Economics in New York. My co host this week is
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  Speaker 1: Michelle jam Risco and economics reporter for Bolenberg in Washington. Michelle,
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  Speaker 1: thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me, Michelle. This
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  Speaker 1: episode is based on reporting you and our colleague Eric
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  Speaker 1: Anglert did from St. Louis last month. Now, you found
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  Speaker 1: a few surprises when you went into the heartland. What's
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  Speaker 1: the genesis of the story and what surprised you the most? Well,
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  Speaker 1: you introduced it quite well on the political framework. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: you would think that in a red state, a very
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  Speaker 1: red state like Missouri, that the big city St. Louis
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  Speaker 1: would be a little pro Trumpet well as well at least,
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  Speaker 1: but um, really, this immigration issue did not strike a
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  Speaker 1: chord at all with the city. Um we found in St. Louis,
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  Speaker 1: people across all industries, um of advocacy, nonprofit business people,
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  Speaker 1: in the street. They were not only appreciative of the
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  Speaker 1: immigrant community and refugees, but they really clung to that
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  Speaker 1: community as a source of economic livelihood. I mean, this
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  Speaker 1: is an area that is in the heart of the
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  Speaker 1: spell that has a very um, you know, excruciating transition
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  Speaker 1: to services economy as as much of the country, and
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  Speaker 1: they just really did appreciate this immigrant community. And just
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  Speaker 1: so we're clear, when we talk about a deep red state,
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about the presidential level. Claire McCaskill was re
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  Speaker 1: elected in Roy Blunt had at one point what looked
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  Speaker 1: like a competitive race, and the governor contests there are
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  Speaker 1: sometimes competitive. We're talking about red at a presidential level,
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  Speaker 1: exactly exactly. And now, Michelle, we'll get to a guest,
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  Speaker 1: special guest in just a second. But did this trip
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  Speaker 1: also help highlight some of the nuances in this sort
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  Speaker 1: of you know, North South, red blue divide. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it feels from the reporting you've done and what our
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  Speaker 1: guest is about to say that it's no longer simply
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  Speaker 1: red state blue state. That's like so nineties, that's so
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  Speaker 1: class of ninety four ish. Really it's urban rural, and
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  Speaker 1: it's almost not even that it's in transition to urban
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  Speaker 1: suburban divides. Yes, it's definitely urban rural, urban suburban. And
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  Speaker 1: it's also national security versus economic which well I'm sure
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  Speaker 1: we'll get to as well, but in the urban versus
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  Speaker 1: suburban and rural, I mean in St. Louis, you see
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  Speaker 1: really the heart of the city going pretty overwhelmingly for Clinton, um,
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  Speaker 1: but you know, the surrounding county is going very much,
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  Speaker 1: you know, in an excess of sixty for for Trump,
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  Speaker 1: and much of the rest of the state going for
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  Speaker 1: Trump as well. So really a divide, and much of
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  Speaker 1: that played out in this issue on their feelings on immigration.
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  Speaker 1: And we have a special guest on the line. One
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  Speaker 1: of the business owners from St. Louis who came from
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  Speaker 1: Bosnia who was featured in the story, Sidik Cook, welcome
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  Speaker 1: to the show. Now you are the owner of a
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  Speaker 1: business called the Taft Street Bar. Tell us a bit
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  Speaker 1: about that. Well, Um, I opened this place in two
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  Speaker 1: thousand three and I've been opened every since before that.
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  Speaker 1: I have a small restaurants, small seafood restaurant, also in St.
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  Speaker 1: Louis city area, and I came in three as a
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  Speaker 1: refugee here in St. Louis. And tell us a little
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  Speaker 1: bit about your arrival in St. Louis and your first
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  Speaker 1: impressions of the city. Um, maybe not. Many people know
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  Speaker 1: that refugees don't exactly have a high choice of where
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  Speaker 1: they're there, placed by the State department. So what did
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  Speaker 1: you think of St. Louis when you were told that
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  Speaker 1: that's where you would arrive And what were your in
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  Speaker 1: first impressions when you got here. Well, I didn't know
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  Speaker 1: exactly where I'm going. I'm beginning. When I applied to
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  Speaker 1: come in the United States. Uh, I was coming from
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  Speaker 1: Belgrade and also I was in two concentration camp in
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  Speaker 1: hold by Serbians search. So we apply, me and my brother,
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  Speaker 1: we apply for the city on the river because we
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  Speaker 1: used to work on boats anyway, So we ended up
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  Speaker 1: in St. Louis, right after flawed came here. We with
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  Speaker 1: not much money. I didn't speak any English and I
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  Speaker 1: have a one hundred German marks, which was equal fifty
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  Speaker 1: U S. Dollars back then. So we came to International
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  Speaker 1: Institute and that was it, and we work our way up.
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  Speaker 1: I started working as a prep cook in one small
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  Speaker 1: Mexican restaurant. Of course I didn't speak any English and
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  Speaker 1: all recipes in Spanish. So welcome to United States City.
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  Speaker 1: It sounds like a classic immigrant story. I mean, I'm
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  Speaker 1: one myself, but I was certainly wasn't a refugee, and
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  Speaker 1: I certainly did not spend time in a concentration camp.
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  Speaker 1: Did your experiences prior to leaving Bosnia? Did that infuse
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  Speaker 1: you with a overwhelming drive to make it in the
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  Speaker 1: United States despite arriving with just a few German marks
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  Speaker 1: in the pocket. And it's interesting to hear say marks.
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  Speaker 1: I'm used to hearing euros, but it's a sign of
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  Speaker 1: the times that were then. Tell us about what went
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  Speaker 1: through your mind when you found out you were going
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  Speaker 1: to St. Louis, and did you have any sense of
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  Speaker 1: how you were going to make it and become the
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  Speaker 1: pillar of the community that you now are. Well back then,
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  Speaker 1: you know, you are looking to save your life, and
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  Speaker 1: I was. I was for about ten months in Belgrade
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  Speaker 1: and the country was they said no in the war.
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  Speaker 1: But they have a lot of police on the street.
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  Speaker 1: And you know, sometime I will get stopped when when
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  Speaker 1: when when I went to buy a bread? And sometimes
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  Speaker 1: I don't get arrested because they have a questions for me.
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  Speaker 1: But you know, when I finally get into programs to
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  Speaker 1: come in the United States, I I didn't think that
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  Speaker 1: it still happen, to be honest with you, because it
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  Speaker 1: was very hard before war to get into United States.
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  Speaker 1: And I never thought that I will I will be
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  Speaker 1: one of the people who will be living in United States.
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  Speaker 1: And you know what we know about United States back
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  Speaker 1: from the movies. We know about lights of the Hollywood
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  Speaker 1: and big cities. We didn't know anything about crime and poverty.
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  Speaker 1: And you know that some people experience slians here in
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  Speaker 1: United States, and uh, you know, not not everybody living
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  Speaker 1: in the weld that we taught that that that's what
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  Speaker 1: is all about America. But when we come here, I
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  Speaker 1: ended up in southside of St. Louis City, where was
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  Speaker 1: uh diversity, you have all kinds of people, Um Arabic
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  Speaker 1: uh and I was one of the first Bosnians who came,
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  Speaker 1: not first, but first dozen families that that came as
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  Speaker 1: an refuge here. So you know, we didn't know anybody.
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  Speaker 1: I didn't know anybody or anything about where I am
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  Speaker 1: and how to get anywhere. So you know, later on
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  Speaker 1: we started coming in international institutions, start learning English, and
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  Speaker 1: and and and way to behave in the United States
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  Speaker 1: because here is different than anywhere else, the type. And
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  Speaker 1: tell us about the business that you started. How did
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  Speaker 1: you get the money to start a business and then
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  Speaker 1: expand it? Well, I was I was on the beginning.
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  Speaker 1: I was studying as a as a prep cook and
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  Speaker 1: working my way up. And four years later that I
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  Speaker 1: become an active chef at Missouri Botan car Garden and
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  Speaker 1: money was much better. But still I didn't think that
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  Speaker 1: I will have money to open up, and I started
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  Speaker 1: going on a restaurant. Auctions are buying you stuff chair
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  Speaker 1: stables and things like that and storing that in a
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  Speaker 1: couple of garages that I that I've entered from the
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  Speaker 1: friends who worked for with me. And then when when
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  Speaker 1: company that I worked for didn't they go she the contract,
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  Speaker 1: I I was out of work and I would start
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  Speaker 1: looking for the place. Went in one place and and
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  Speaker 1: the woman that I tried to rent it from, she
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  Speaker 1: was really unreasonable and I didn't sign the contract. So
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  Speaker 1: I went on lunch with friends and I I talked
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  Speaker 1: to the owner and he said, well, I'm moving next door.
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  Speaker 1: I said, I was going to be here. He said, well,
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  Speaker 1: I don't know. So I asked him for the name
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  Speaker 1: of the property owner. He didn't give me. That I
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  Speaker 1: find out and I talked to the guy and I
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  Speaker 1: signed the list same day and start working and rehaving
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  Speaker 1: the property because it was in very bad shape money.
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  Speaker 1: I borrow some money from my family and I put
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  Speaker 1: money on my credit cards, which was really bad idea,
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  Speaker 1: but and I opened my first restaurant. I have three
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  Speaker 1: fifty bucks on my account and I have two card
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  Speaker 1: payments and house payments as well. At three fifty bucks,
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  Speaker 1: it was all my capital in the world, and I
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  Speaker 1: was behind, like over thirty three thousand. You know debt
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  Speaker 1: with family, which you know with bank you can make
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  Speaker 1: a payment, small payment, but you know when you meet
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  Speaker 1: your family you have to look them in eye, so
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  Speaker 1: you know you own the money. So you have to
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  Speaker 1: really work something out okay, So fast forward, Sedy, from
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  Speaker 1: that fairly tough start to where you are there. You're
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  Speaker 1: a pillar of the St. Louis community. I understand you're
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  Speaker 1: the head of the Bosnian Chamber of Commerce. Just briefly
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  Speaker 1: described the trajectory there well. As I said, I opened
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  Speaker 1: at that place in August of two thousands, and I
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  Speaker 1: wasn't involved in community work or anything like that. But
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  Speaker 1: you know, I was pretty decent work, and my my
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  Speaker 1: business was pretty decent. I I started growing and eyebought
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  Speaker 1: property where I am now with Taft restaurants, and I
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  Speaker 1: was trying to open catering in kitchen because my kitchen
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  Speaker 1: become too small for what I was doing. Anyway, I
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  Speaker 1: become a sick and things did not go as well
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  Speaker 1: as I thought. So city told me that I cannot
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  Speaker 1: open catered in kitchen. I have to open a restaurant
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  Speaker 1: and put a bill think in a shape where it
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  Speaker 1: was in the beginning of twenty essentially. So I did that,
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  Speaker 1: and I couldn't handle two restaurants. I sold the restaurant
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  Speaker 1: and grant. I opened one on a gray ways and staff,
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  Speaker 1: and then I started slowly but approaching to the to
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  Speaker 1: the community work where we start basting in Chamber of Commerce,
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  Speaker 1: and I was just a member back then, and you know,
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  Speaker 1: very soon we started getting idea about applying for the
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  Speaker 1: grant that we will later on get that grant and
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  Speaker 1: buy the building where we are now at fifty thirty
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  Speaker 1: nine Gray Ways, and described the contribution that the Bosnian
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  Speaker 1: community is making to the economic life of St. Louis.
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  Speaker 1: How many members do you have in the Bosnian Chamber
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  Speaker 1: of Commerce, how many residents of St. Lou are of
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  Speaker 1: Bosnian the saint and how does the city feel about you? Well,
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  Speaker 1: there is about forty three Bosnian businesses as a member
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  Speaker 1: of Bastian Chamber, and we have many American businesses who
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  Speaker 1: wants to make connections with with Bosnians as workers and
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  Speaker 1: as businesses. Uh. Bosnian people did a lot of good
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  Speaker 1: things in the city of St. Louis and later on
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  Speaker 1: in the county because our first step was city. So
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  Speaker 1: we still have a good amount of people in the city,
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  Speaker 1: but a majority now is in a St. Louis county
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  Speaker 1: must be South County, and they are still involved in
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  Speaker 1: um in in in a lot of different things. They
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  Speaker 1: actually wants to make UH. The neighborhoods either city or county,
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  Speaker 1: better place for their children, for community, for everything. That's
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  Speaker 1: that's one thing I wanted to get at to city
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  Speaker 1: because you know, the neighborhood that you're you and your
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  Speaker 1: Bosnian other Bosnian refugees settled in is Bevo neighborhood right
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  Speaker 1: in the city, and that was a place that a
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  Speaker 1: lot of people said was not so pleasant a place before.
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  Speaker 1: But once um, you all came in and had this
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  Speaker 1: kind of rehabilitative attitude, opened more businesses, more so than
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  Speaker 1: native born St. Louis AND's um and and really kind
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  Speaker 1: of got your got your hands dirty in the community. Um,
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  Speaker 1: it turned around a bit. Can you tell us about that?
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  Speaker 1: I mean, what was your sense of the community beforehand? Uh?
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  Speaker 1: I was a tenant in the place, second second floor
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  Speaker 1: of my restaurant back then. In I moved in and
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  Speaker 1: this was a horrible neighborhood. And uh in nine six
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  Speaker 1: there was a big wave of the Bosnians coming from
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  Speaker 1: from Germany and from Bosnia. So we start center settled
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  Speaker 1: up right here in the Viban neighborhood. We start buying property,
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  Speaker 1: fixing them up, and it was really blooming. And then uh,
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  Speaker 1: I will say, in two thousand to two, thousand three,
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  Speaker 1: they start moving out in account. But there's still a
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  Speaker 1: lot of Bosnians in the viable neighborhood and uh there
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  Speaker 1: is a many neighborhood organizations UH as well as Bosnian
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  Speaker 1: Chamber of Commerce and better Beeble. Now that we are
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  Speaker 1: working together lately b form uh SEED which is community
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  Speaker 1: improving district that is operating from forty seven Grave Ways
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  Speaker 1: to Christian Avenue. There is h one twenty seven property
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  Speaker 1: owners that we wore to raise ourselves taxes so we
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  Speaker 1: can pay for security, UH, beautification, cleaning and things like that.
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  Speaker 1: Now said, Missouri is a state that went heavily for
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  Speaker 1: Donald Trump last November. At various parts of the campaign
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  Speaker 1: preceding the election, issues of race and immigration were towards
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  Speaker 1: the forefront of our national narrative. What was going through
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  Speaker 1: your mind last year and last November? Well, you know, um,
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  Speaker 1: I hope I will not get misunderstood. There is a
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  Speaker 1: hate and mistreating and things like that. But a lot
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  Speaker 1: of people forget, not just in Missouri, United States of America.
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  Speaker 1: Where is their heritage coming from. Maybe maybe they were
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  Speaker 1: not refugee, but they are emigrants. Like cure and horror
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  Speaker 1: of the skin or heavily accent like mine is doesn't
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  Speaker 1: mean anything. Ah. People try to hurt you. Maybe they
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  Speaker 1: don't even think why. Ah. Fortunately, here in the city
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  Speaker 1: of St. Louis, picture is not bad. Picture is pretty good.
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  Speaker 1: And uh, neighbors tried to stick together and most of
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  Speaker 1: them appreciate what we did here in the past years.
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  Speaker 1: Having said all of that, is there a country you
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  Speaker 1: would have rather been resettled in. No, No, I didn't
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  Speaker 1: know anything about United States, and the United States definitely
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  Speaker 1: look different now and three when I come here. But
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  Speaker 1: if I have to choose, people don't understand what we
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  Speaker 1: have here. People be this is best country in the world.
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  Speaker 1: What is it you think we have here? Well, we
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  Speaker 1: have diversity, and uh we have most of the people
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  Speaker 1: in the United States they are really good, really nice people.
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  Speaker 1: And you have a bad apples in every basket, people
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  Speaker 1: who just either they are not educated or or they
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  Speaker 1: saw something on TV that some terrorists dead and all
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: people are not saying people from from Muslin community. They
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: are not all terrorists and they are not all bad.
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  Speaker 1: You know, terrorists terrorists. I don't want to have anything
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  Speaker 1: with them. But I am born and raised as a Muslid.
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  Speaker 1: You know, craziness. Uh, people who who who do something?
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  Speaker 1: I don't know what they're doing, and I doesn't socialize
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  Speaker 1: with them. I don't know any of them. I don't
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you know, but you know people usually some people put
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: in the same sock all of us. So are you
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: optimistic about immigrants and refugees in America in the future?
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: I am, I am. I have a meeting in the
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: Mayor's office a few days ago where are people from
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  Speaker 1: a few cities from the Greece came over here and
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: tried to bring some refugees from Greece to the to
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: the to the Saint Louis. So I don't know how
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: how it will work, but hopefully they will get through.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Well sidek Um, we're humbled by your story. There's a
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: lot more that we could say in this conversation, but
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: the show must go on. I want to thank you
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Well, thank you for having me. Well,
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: you know, Michelle, I read the story that you and
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: Eric wrote with some interest, and not just because I'm
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: your boss, but it seemed counterintuitive. But out I did
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  Speaker 1: not know that Siddiq had spent time in concentration camps
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: plural one would be bad enough right, right, Yeah. I
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: mean there's so much detail that this issue is so
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: complicated on a national level, even on state level. Once
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: you get down to the city and once you get
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: down to stories like Siddix, it is a lot more
• 22:19
  Speaker 1: interesting to dig into the detail and see, you know,
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: the color behind each anecdote that contributes to this I
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: was also very interested and frankly touched without hesitation, knowing
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  Speaker 1: what he knows now, he would never have picked any
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: other country. He said, people don't understand what we have here.
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  Speaker 1: What did you think about that? I was fascinating. Actually
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  Speaker 1: brought to mind another family we explored in the fall,
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  Speaker 1: the Syrian refugee family in Phoenix, that said much the same.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, they said, you know, things that the opposition
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  Speaker 1: would would just love to hear. You know, I'm so American,
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  Speaker 1: I feel American. I feel like I'm part of this economy.
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  Speaker 1: I want to give back, I want to contribute. And
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: that's much of what we heard from Saddik as well. He's,
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  Speaker 1: you know, as as you called him, a pillar in
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  Speaker 1: the community. He's he's leading a chamber of commerce, he's
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  Speaker 1: you know, very pro business. He's trying to reduce crime
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  Speaker 1: and uh, you know, reduce the blight in the community.
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  Speaker 1: So it's very much a part of the sort of
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  Speaker 1: American dream, American spirit that they've got. And yeah, as
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: you said, without hesitation, he says, no, I wouldn't want
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  Speaker 1: to be anywhere else. And you're going to keep reporting
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: on the role of immigrant communities and the economies of
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: the cities in which they are located. Yeah, I mean
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: there's a lot of stories to tell. I mean, we've
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: we've tackled a little bit of the rust Belt, especially
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: with this story. Um, Like I said, we went to
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Phoenix last fall. Um, there's a ton of places, fascinating
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: things going on across the country, especially when you get
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: into the local levels of you know, politics that might
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: be playing out in unusual ways, but also the economic
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: story being truly fascinating one. Um. We originally got into
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: this in part because, uh, you know, President Trump says
• 23:58
  Speaker 1: he wants to grow the economy three or three and
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: a half percent at least sometimes upwards of that figure,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: and economistart saying you can't do that unless you at
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: least keep immigration stable. And yet that's not part of
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: his message either. So at least in the short term,
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: we're gonna have some hurdles here, and we're looking at,
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: you know, how this affects people on a local level,
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: how it affects them on a state level, and then
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: eventually how it's going to affect a national economy. Well,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: we'll get you back on next time you published one
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: of those stories. Appreciate it. Benchmark will be back next
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: week and until then, you can find us in so
• 24:30
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• 24:34
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• 24:38
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• 24:41
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• 24:44
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• 24:46
  Speaker 1: You can follow me at moss Underscore, Echo and Michelle
• 24:50
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• 24:54
  Speaker 1: j A, m r I, s k O. Benchmark is
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: produced by Sarah Pattison ahead of Bloomberg. Podcast is Alec McCabe.
• 25:02
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. To see you next time.