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She Moved to Jamaica With 5 Suitcases & No Plan — And Built the Caribbean's Only Sourdough Bakery · Babes, how did you get here

• 0:00
  Because I would see it as the place in the beginning, there'd be a hype and a love for it.
• 0:03
  But then I'd be like, ah, I wonder if it's going to be like sustained.
• 0:07
  So they literally broke our doors when we opened.
• 0:09
  What do you mean?
• 0:10
  I did a lot of marketing, so I started with 5,000 followers on Facebook.
• 0:13
  Okay.
• 0:13
  So the day we opened, there was a lineup.
• 0:15
  Okay.
• 0:16
  And they literally broke our doors when I was at the fixed doors.
• 0:20
  Except we had never cash, we didn't have a proper, it was just, it was lovely.
• 0:24
  Honestly, like to look back at it, you can just laugh and smile
• 0:28
  because it was so intense, we never expected so many people.
• 0:31
  Right.
• 0:31
  But like my husband, I don't think my husband picked his head up.
• 0:35
  And then like we hadn't trained everyone for bags, and so they didn't know how to wrap things.
• 0:39
  So we had these papers from France at Patrika, and so you're supposed to wrap the bag up.
• 0:43
  I knew it was like, get it out.
• 0:44
  And so no, it was just words.
• 0:47
  And then the girls were trying to serve too, and they were, no, really the kids were awesome.
• 0:52
  So it was crazy.
• 0:54
  Welcome to a life elsewhere.
• 0:57
  A podcast that impacts what it's really like to walk away from everything you know
• 1:01
  and begin again in a new country.
• 1:03
  I'm April Jackson, and in each episode I speak with bold souls
• 1:07
  who have traded in comfort for the unknown in pursuit of a different kind of life.
• 1:12
  Today I'm speaking with Eleni.
• 1:13
  10 years ago on the hilltops of Jamaica, captivated by the views.
• 1:17
  She knew that she couldn't go back.
• 1:19
  Just months later, her, her husband, and their three kids
• 1:23
  walk away from a successful construction business to chase a dream that they never planned for.
• 1:28
  A year after that, they find themselves opening the Caribbean's only sourdough bakery in Kingston.
• 1:34
  No experience, no road map, just a vision, and the courage to begin.
• 1:40
  Angel April!
• 1:43
  No, so tell me, you live in Kingston Jamaica.
• 1:46
  You are from Canada.
• 1:48
  Talk me through how you got here.
• 1:50
  I love coconuts.
• 1:52
  That's it.
• 1:53
  There's lots of other places with coconuts, babes, there's Thailand, there's Indonesia.
• 1:57
  The fair don't wear socks with their sandals.
• 1:59
  Did you make them wear socks with their sandals?
• 2:00
  They do.
• 2:01
  Have you not seen the windshield washers?
• 2:02
  They're just trying to be American.
• 2:03
  I thought that was an American thing.
• 2:05
  No.
• 2:06
  Socks and sandals.
• 2:07
  Yes.
• 2:08
  You want to wear socks and sandals?
• 2:09
  I do.
• 2:10
  That's why I feel like socks and sandals.
• 2:11
  Because sometimes your toes get cold with the breeze.
• 2:13
  But you want the flexibility of, you know, feeling free and not being spiteful.
• 2:18
  Normally.
• 2:19
  We can't be friends with socks.
• 2:20
  I hate socks and sandals.
• 2:22
  Like, I didn't know that about you.
• 2:25
  I don't know how I feel.
• 2:26
  I'm sorry.
• 2:27
  Well, I'm glad that you don't have socks and sandals now.
• 2:29
  No, no.
• 2:30
  I just stopped for you.
• 2:31
  So coconuts, socks and sandals, anything else?
• 2:34
  Whether, definitely.
• 2:36
  Okay.
• 2:37
  The weather is kind of harsh in Canada.
• 2:40
  The winters are cold and warm.
• 2:41
  Yeah.
• 2:42
  But it came down to a visit to Jamaica with my family.
• 2:45
  So I have a husband and four kids.
• 2:47
  One was born here.
• 2:48
  So we were vacationing with three kids.
• 2:50
  Okay.
• 2:51
  And we were in Montego Bay in the health.
• 2:53
  We're looking at this most exquisite view.
• 2:55
  And I'm just like, wow.
• 2:57
  And when my husband, I think, he was on this side of me.
• 3:00
  And I'm just like, I think we're doing life wrong.
• 3:04
  And nothing was wrong with our life.
• 3:05
  We had a great company.
• 3:06
  And we were growing every year.
• 3:08
  And things were great.
• 3:10
  But there was something about this view.
• 3:12
  And this, like, why can't I enjoy this at least weekly?
• 3:17
  Like, you know, like, you don't necessarily live there.
• 3:19
  But you can drive there.
• 3:21
  And so I just, we were doing life wrong, I thought.
• 3:24
  And then we went home.
• 3:26
  And then we came back to Jamaica to see, can we live here?
• 3:30
  So we came to Kingston.
• 3:32
  What is the city like?
• 3:33
  What kind of, because, you know, a Caribbean island has a lot of misconceptions.
• 3:37
  And you don't know a lot.
• 3:38
  So you don't really know, can I live there?
• 3:40
  Can I live there, you know?
• 3:42
  I'm somewhat close to what I'm used to.
• 3:45
  Or is it going to be something completely different?
• 3:47
  Can I still have a business?
• 3:49
  Can I have a business in a field I'm familiar with?
• 4:12
  Okay.
• 4:13
  And your business in Canada at this time is?
• 4:15
  Roads and sewers.
• 4:16
  Okay.
• 4:17
  Waterproofing foundations, jacking up buildings,
• 4:20
  putting extended parking garages underneath.
• 4:22
  Okay.
• 4:23
  So I did the books for my husband's business.
• 4:24
  Right.
• 4:25
  And I did not do any construction.
• 4:26
  I don't think I did.
• 4:28
  And were you thinking at that time that you'd be able to do a similar business here?
• 4:32
  We thought we would be doing construction when we moved to Jamaica.
• 4:34
  Okay.
• 4:35
  Because that's what we knew.
• 4:36
  And I should say we, because, again, I didn't do it.
• 4:38
  But that's what we thought we would end up doing.
• 4:40
  There was a lot of building going on.
• 4:42
  Right.
• 4:43
  When we came to the city, Kingston is a big city.
• 4:45
  It has a lot to offer.
• 4:46
  It has lots of different nationalities.
• 4:48
  And you're like, hey, yeah, you can definitely live here.
• 4:50
  There's a lot going on.
• 4:51
  There's a lot you can do.
• 4:52
  Was that your first time in Kingston?
• 4:53
  It was.
• 4:54
  Okay.
• 4:55
  And that was on our second trip.
• 4:56
  Okay.
• 4:57
  So you come to Kingston.
• 4:58
  You feel like this is city life, not just vacation by the beach.
• 5:01
  And we could potentially open a business here.
• 5:03
  Yeah.
• 5:04
  My husband, I set up some meetings with some construction company.
• 5:07
  Okay.
• 5:09
  We thought we would be going into.
• 5:10
  Right.
• 5:11
  Because that's what we knew.
• 5:12
  Right.
• 5:13
  And then we went home.
• 5:14
  And, you know, I didn't hear much about it.
• 5:16
  And one September, my husband turned around and goes, fuck it.
• 5:20
  Let's move.
• 5:21
  And I was like, oh!
• 5:22
  I thought I was going to die in Icebox!
• 5:26
  And what distance are we talking from the Kingston trip to the Let's Move?
• 5:30
  One was beginning of April.
• 5:32
  Sorry, one was beginning of August.
• 5:34
  And then that was beginning of September.
• 5:37
  Four weeks.
• 5:38
  Okay.
• 5:39
  And then we decided that he would come and find us a house in October.
• 5:45
  Of the same year.
• 5:46
  Of the same year.
• 5:47
  Okay.
• 5:48
  We put all of the equipment for sale.
• 5:49
  We donated everything in our home.
• 5:51
  Right.
• 5:52
  Luckily we were renting a home.
• 5:53
  Okay.
• 5:54
  So that was easy.
• 5:55
  We moved with five kids.
• 5:56
  Five suitcases.
• 5:57
  Right.
• 5:58
  Three kids.
• 5:59
  So family five.
• 6:00
  We each had one suitcase.
• 6:01
  And we just moved.
• 6:02
  We had no friends in Jamaica.
• 6:03
  We had no job.
• 6:04
  And you just got on the plane.
• 6:06
  We just got on the plane one way ticket.
• 6:08
  Two minutes.
• 6:09
  Sorry, two minutes.
• 6:10
  Two months from the time that you visited Kingston.
• 6:12
  We're on a plane.
• 6:13
  No, because October he came to get a house.
• 6:15
  Sorry, December 15th we moved.
• 6:17
  That you moved.
• 6:18
  Okay, cool.
• 6:19
  So he has the house.
• 6:20
  You're renting a house.
• 6:21
  And then he's the rest of the family.
• 6:22
  Come over.
• 6:23
  I don't know.
• 6:24
  He came back.
• 6:25
  He closed off the entire business.
• 6:26
  Because we had excavators.
• 6:27
  All kinds of trucks.
• 6:28
  All kinds of equipment.
• 6:29
  So he wound that up.
• 6:30
  So he closed that down.
• 6:31
  And then we moved December.
• 6:33
  With no job.
• 6:34
  No job.
• 6:35
  No business ready.
• 6:36
  Nope, nothing.
• 6:37
  No friends.
• 6:38
  Really?
• 6:39
  Yep.
• 6:40
  Before we continue, make sure that you join our community by clicking the link below.
• 6:44
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• 6:48
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• 6:49
  Even recommend guests.
• 6:51
  I really cannot wait for you to help me shape where this podcast goes.
• 6:56
  So first trip to Kingston.
• 6:58
  August.
• 6:59
  October.
• 7:00
  Husband comes back.
• 7:01
  Find somewhere to live.
• 7:02
  Wrap up the business.
• 7:03
  December.
• 7:04
  The whole family moves with five suitcases.
• 7:06
  If you're wrong, do you want me to correct you?
• 7:09
  Yes.
• 7:10
  Okay.
• 7:11
  So the first time we came to Jamaica was on vacation.
• 7:13
  Okay.
• 7:14
  And here before.
• 7:15
  And we went to St. James in the low bay.
• 7:16
  We went to Kingston.
• 7:17
  Okay.
• 7:18
  The following year we came back.
• 7:19
  And we came to Kingston to see, hey, can we actually live here?
• 7:22
  Sure.
• 7:23
  Then when in September, he was like, let's move.
• 7:25
  Yep.
• 7:26
  And we decided to move.
• 7:27
  He came in October.
• 7:28
  Yeah.
• 7:29
  Found looked at schools.
• 7:30
  Found a house.
• 7:31
  Came home.
• 7:32
  We left the rest of the company, closed it all off.
• 7:34
  And we moved to December.
• 7:35
  Amazing.
• 7:36
  Is this the first time you and your family have moved to another country?
• 7:39
  My husband and I moved to the US.
• 7:42
  Okay.
• 7:43
  But that job didn't work out and we came back to Canada.
• 7:45
  Okay.
• 7:46
  So permanently, yes.
• 7:47
  Cool.
• 7:48
  And when you briefly moved to the US, did you have kids at the time?
• 7:50
  I was pregnant with the first one.
• 7:51
  Okay.
• 7:52
  Okay, cool.
• 7:53
  So this is the first big move with family.
• 7:54
  Yes.
• 7:55
  Very big move.
• 7:56
  And for me, I grew up in Montreal my whole life.
• 7:58
  So I had not lived anywhere else.
• 7:59
  Really?
• 8:00
  I had the age that this was the time.
• 8:02
  From when I was small and we'd be vacationing in the Caribbean,
• 8:05
  I just didn't understand why we lived in the snow.
• 8:07
  So for me, I just understand there's flowers here all year long.
• 8:12
  Why do we go back to the snow?
• 8:15
  And for your husband, was it a similar thing?
• 8:17
  Well, he was born in Siberia.
• 8:18
  Okay.
• 8:19
  Then he moved to Moscow.
• 8:20
  He used to know.
• 8:21
  Then he moved to Montreal.
• 8:22
  Right.
• 8:23
  But when he first came to Jamaica, he didn't realize how warm the sea would be.
• 8:27
  Okay.
• 8:29
  And so wonderful it was.
• 8:30
  So that was a big surprise to him.
• 8:31
  Oh my goodness.
• 8:32
  How old are your kids at this point when you moved?
• 8:34
  When I moved, I had a nine-year-old, an eight-year-old, and a five-year-old.
• 8:39
  Okay.
• 8:40
  And so when we were explaining to them that we're now moving to Jamaica,
• 8:43
  what is the vibe?
• 8:44
  I think they were overwhelmed and they didn't understand.
• 8:47
  They just kind of went, okay.
• 8:48
  Right.
• 8:49
  And then it was a very long process.
• 8:51
  Not in time, but for them to pick through what they want to take.
• 8:56
  But we only moved with a suitcase.
• 8:58
  So you had to fit your life, your whole room, to one suitcase.
• 9:02
  I think that was difficult for them.
• 9:04
  How was it for you?
• 9:05
  Half of my suitcase was a Doc McStuffins Playmobil that my daughter wanted.
• 9:10
  So I didn't even bring pants or socks.
• 9:13
  Okay.
• 9:14
  I thought it was warmer than it was.
• 9:16
  And in fact, in December, in Kingston, it's quite cool.
• 9:20
  And I had no warm clothes because I was just happy to move.
• 9:25
  And I bought a lot of warm clothes.
• 9:28
  Cool.
• 9:29
  Which I had once I liked to.
• 9:33
  You arrived in Jamaica and you said you don't have friends at the time.
• 9:37
  It was all brand new.
• 9:39
  Were you still really on that excited energy or when you got here?
• 9:43
  But do you ever want to fuck what the hell about you?
• 9:46
  I'm still on that excited energy.
• 9:48
  Really?
• 9:49
  I loved Jamaica.
• 9:51
  So there was no point where you're like, have I made the right decision?
• 9:54
  No.
• 9:55
  No.
• 9:56
  You didn't have friends that you left behind that you missed.
• 9:58
  I still love them.
• 9:59
  Okay.
• 10:00
  So you were just like, this is where I'm supposed to be.
• 10:02
  Once my grandmother died, there was nothing holding me personally.
• 10:05
  Okay.
• 10:06
  That went to a show.
• 10:07
  Okay.
• 10:08
  So you were cool with the decision and you was the right one.
• 10:11
  Did you have one for the same?
• 10:12
  I think so.
• 10:13
  Okay.
• 10:14
  That was interesting.
• 10:15
  I think maybe he was a bit more stressed.
• 10:17
  A bit more easy going.
• 10:19
  Show more optimistic.
• 10:20
  Okay.
• 10:21
  I think he stresses out a little bit more.
• 10:23
  But I don't know.
• 10:24
  There's always hard moments.
• 10:25
  Right.
• 10:26
  Like when we opened up our business, everyone thought we were going to fail.
• 10:29
  Okay.
• 10:30
  People literally laughed out loud and ridiculed us.
• 10:32
  Okay.
• 10:33
  So take me back.
• 10:34
  You get him.
• 10:35
  You think you're going to be in construction.
• 10:36
  So we need a car.
• 10:38
  Right.
• 10:39
  So we're looking in the newspapers for cars.
• 10:41
  And we're looking at different cars because we have this rental car for a week.
• 10:43
  Right.
• 10:44
  And we buy a car from a Canadian man who owns a construction company.
• 10:48
  Okay.
• 10:49
  And his wife is selling the car.
• 10:51
  Oh.
• 10:52
  So she finds out where Canadian and construction, well, he's a construction worker.
• 10:55
  And this man had a big development where he was building low income housing.
• 10:59
  Okay.
• 11:00
  And so my husband worked there for a couple of months.
• 11:02
  He was offered a job like as we bought the car.
• 11:04
  So.
• 11:05
  And he worked there for a couple of months.
• 11:06
  He was responsible for about 120-inch makings.
• 11:08
  Okay.
• 11:09
  He learned parts very, very quickly.
• 11:10
  Okay.
• 11:11
  Much quicker than I did.
• 11:12
  Like driving my kids to school and he's like on a site.
• 11:15
  That didn't work out so well.
• 11:17
  Okay.
• 11:18
  And then we're like, okay, now we need to work.
• 11:20
  Like we have a finite amount of money that will run out.
• 11:23
  So what do we do?
• 11:25
  Right.
• 11:26
  And I think it was maybe January 4th or 5th.
• 11:29
  A new friend we made brought us to the plaza where we're now.
• 11:31
  Okay.
• 11:32
  First of my screen.
• 11:33
  Okay.
• 11:34
  Because we're next to an ice cream shop.
• 11:35
  And we're like, wow, this plaza is so busy.
• 11:38
  Why is this shop empty?
• 11:39
  And then we're like, okay, maybe we can open up something.
• 11:42
  Okay.
• 11:43
  I cook really well.
• 11:44
  Maybe not as well as you.
• 11:45
  But I do cook really well.
• 11:46
  I'm not a chef.
• 11:48
  I'm just cook well.
• 11:49
  I say the same thing.
• 11:50
  I'm not a chef.
• 11:51
  I cook and people pay for it.
• 11:52
  Yeah.
• 11:53
  You've done a little bit more than me.
• 11:55
  I guess.
• 11:56
  But so we don't think you may be in a time restaurant or a bakery.
• 12:00
  Okay.
• 12:01
  But we didn't know anything about baking.
• 12:03
  And we were just missing the bakery experience, the fresh bread,
• 12:06
  the sourdough bread especially.
• 12:08
  And so our neighbor in Montreal was brought in from France
• 12:12
  to develop certain flour for the biggest bakery.
• 12:15
  And so he was our friend.
• 12:16
  And I was like, okay, if I can reach him.
• 12:18
  Sure.
• 12:19
  Maybe then he can help us and guide us.
• 12:20
  And it's hilarious because I had his ex-wife on Facebook.
• 12:24
  And I reached out to her.
• 12:26
  Right?
• 12:27
  And I go, hey.
• 12:28
  My girlie, you know, can I find Patrick?
• 12:31
  So maybe Kate shares number.
• 12:33
  Radio silence.
• 12:34
  Oh.
• 12:35
  And I'm really frustrated because she's posting.
• 12:37
  So you've seen my message.
• 12:39
  So you're online.
• 12:40
  It's not like if this is a dormant account.
• 12:42
  Sure.
• 12:43
  And I go to my husband.
• 12:44
  I'm like, I don't know how to get through her.
• 12:45
  Because I don't have to.
• 12:46
  She goes, offer her 75 euros.
• 12:48
  Or either she'll be insulted and give you the number.
• 12:51
  Or she's going to take the money and give you the number.
• 12:53
  Tell me she didn't take the money.
• 12:54
  She didn't take the money.
• 12:55
  But I got the answer within 30 minutes of service.
• 12:57
  Literally.
• 12:58
  Literally.
• 13:00
  And I was like, okay, well done.
• 13:02
  So we got the number.
• 13:03
  We call Patrick.
• 13:04
  Hi.
• 13:05
  How are you?
• 13:06
  Where? To make a what?
• 13:07
  And he was like, and we sent him all the money we had left.
• 13:11
  Okay.
• 13:12
  I thought it was your bread drink.
• 13:14
  He is.
• 13:15
  But he put together our entire bakery in France.
• 13:16
  Okay.
• 13:17
  He went shopping for us.
• 13:18
  Okay.
• 13:19
  So he picked up everything in France.
• 13:20
  He got huge equipment from Italy.
• 13:21
  He put it all together.
• 13:22
  Put it into a container and shipped it to us.
• 13:24
  Okay.
• 13:25
  Because we also didn't really know what we needed.
• 13:27
  But by this point, if we have a concrete plan.
• 13:30
  No.
• 13:31
  We're opening up a bakery.
• 13:32
  So we're just sending the money to our bread drink.
• 13:34
  And he's sending us everything we need.
• 13:35
  Okay.
• 13:36
  Take a bakery in a box.
• 13:37
  Right.
• 13:38
  But we still don't know that it's a bakery.
• 13:40
  No.
• 13:41
  Cool.
• 13:42
  So we decided to hire a pastry chef and a baker.
• 13:45
  Okay.
• 13:46
  I feel responsible for the bad hiring of the baker.
• 13:51
  Okay.
• 13:52
  Because I did the interviews.
• 13:54
  My husband let me leave that.
• 13:56
  Right.
• 13:57
  Which I appreciated.
• 13:58
  Right.
• 13:59
  But I did not make a good choice.
• 14:00
  How do we find this baker?
• 14:01
  It's like Craigslist for bakers in France.
• 14:04
  I knew what I was going to be.
• 14:06
  That was going to be a good idea.
• 14:07
  But Patrick was like, this is where bakers get jobs.
• 14:10
  Oh, did they?
• 14:11
  But it's like France.
• 14:12
  Right.
• 14:13
  And then international.
• 14:14
  International.
• 14:15
  Right.
• 14:16
  And I think the people looking to leave.
• 14:18
  I think that's where Craigslist comes from.
• 14:19
  They're the rejects.
• 14:20
  Yes.
• 14:21
  So you got a baker reject from France.
• 14:25
  But you thought they did your French.
• 14:27
  And you know how it's sweet and working.
• 14:29
  Okay.
• 14:30
  And then he had a family.
• 14:31
  And it cost us so much.
• 14:32
  Really sweetened to Jamaica.
• 14:34
  Oh.
• 14:35
  And he really, because neither of us were bakers,
• 14:37
  he said what I wanted to hear and maybe believe that he could do it.
• 14:41
  Okay.
• 14:42
  So he scammed you.
• 14:43
  I guess so.
• 14:44
  That seems so mean.
• 14:45
  He scammed you.
• 14:46
  Yeah.
• 14:47
  So his family comes from Sweden.
• 14:49
  Yeah.
• 14:50
  To Jamaica with him.
• 14:51
  He has kids.
• 14:52
  Yeah.
• 14:53
  Two kids.
• 14:54
  I set them up in schools.
• 14:55
  And it's really hard in first form because of testing and stuff.
• 14:57
  And I go, I really, I don't think anyone else goes abroad to work.
• 15:01
  The business does so much for the children.
• 15:03
  But because it was our lives.
• 15:05
  Sure.
• 15:06
  And you treat people the way you want to be treated.
• 15:08
  Sure.
• 15:09
  So I guess I didn't know any different.
• 15:10
  Why didn't it work out?
• 15:11
  I think he was a drug addict.
• 15:13
  Cool.
• 15:14
  I think that didn't work for the bread.
• 15:17
  It didn't work talking to other employees.
• 15:19
  Okay.
• 15:20
  Maybe it would have worked for the bread.
• 15:21
  I can't speak for the bread.
• 15:22
  But I can tell you that a very, very nice Jamaican who is a assistant baker,
• 15:26
  who is always jovial and smiling.
• 15:28
  He calls us one day.
• 15:29
  Very stressed out.
• 15:30
  And I was just like, my husband was just like, no.
• 15:34
  And we drove straight to the bakery.
• 15:35
  And my husband fired the baker.
• 15:37
  Okay.
• 15:38
  But now it's six weeks in.
• 15:40
  Sorry.
• 15:41
  Six weeks after opening.
• 15:42
  Yes.
• 15:43
  We have fired the baker.
• 15:44
  The baker.
• 15:45
  And we also brought in a pastry chef.
• 15:47
  And he lasted about 18 months.
• 15:49
  Okay.
• 15:50
  And the pastry chef.
• 15:51
  My husband looks at the pastry chef.
• 15:52
  And he goes, you know, you had a bakery, right?
• 15:54
  He goes, yeah.
• 15:55
  And he goes, you know how to make bread.
• 15:56
  And the pastry chef is like enough.
• 15:57
  And he's like, can you just, you know, help me hour until we replace?
• 15:59
  Sure.
• 16:00
  This man.
• 16:01
  But we realize that if we don't know how to make the bread.
• 16:04
  You always keep happening.
• 16:05
  Yeah.
• 16:06
  And my husband started a very, very, very difficult and strenuous journey of becoming a sourdough specialist
• 16:12
  but in a Caribbean climate.
• 16:14
  Sure.
• 16:15
  So any expertise that is known is not for this climate.
• 16:18
  They don't know how this sourdough will behave in this climate.
• 16:20
  Right.
• 16:21
  So there was no one really to reach out to.
• 16:22
  And when you say that they don't know how it will behave, explain that to me.
• 16:26
  So sourdough is a bacteria that's alive.
• 16:28
  Okay.
• 16:29
  Right now we're breathing lactobacillus.
• 16:30
  Right.
• 16:31
  And that, I think there's like an extra long nature.
• 16:33
  Sure.
• 16:34
  Let's go with lactobacillus.
• 16:35
  Yes.
• 16:36
  And if you put flour and water, it makes that bacteria really help happy because it likes to eat gluten.
• 16:39
  Yep.
• 16:40
  And needs to drink water.
• 16:41
  Right.
• 16:42
  So it's just one of those things that works really well in nature.
• 16:45
  Yeah.
• 16:46
  And so I really wanted a sourdough specialist.
• 16:49
  Okay.
• 16:50
  And this man said he was a sourdough specialist.
• 16:52
  Right.
• 16:53
  And he came, even the people from the flour mill came because he kept putting down Jamaican flour.
• 16:57
  And we didn't know better.
• 16:58
  And the people from the Jamaican flour mills was very, very nice.
• 17:00
  And they came and tried to meet with him.
• 17:02
  Sure.
• 17:03
  They didn't understand what he was saying.
• 17:04
  But kind of translate.
• 17:05
  But like, it kind of sounds like fuckery.
• 17:08
  But like, you're supposed to be the expert.
• 17:10
  Sure.
• 17:11
  And then it was very an awkward moment.
• 17:13
  Right.
• 17:14
  But so when my husband fired him, it was like, okay, for breeze, the pastry chef, can you help me out?
• 17:19
  Right.
• 17:20
  And then we realized that no, we need to do this.
• 17:22
  So then I went to the internet and found a sourdough specialist on Craigslist.
• 17:26
  No, no, I got a little bit smaller.
• 17:28
  Cool.
• 17:29
  On Instagram.
• 17:30
  Okay.
• 17:31
  And she posts and she's a sourdough maniac.
• 17:33
  Yeah.
• 17:34
  And her husband was ill and she couldn't come down.
• 17:35
  Okay.
• 17:36
  And in the nine or ten months that she didn't come down, my husband really guessed and tested and tried and learned and did it.
• 17:45
  Every year is a sourdough specialist.
• 17:47
  I will bring him anywhere around the world to compete against anyone.
• 17:51
  Sure.
• 17:52
  He can make pancakes, croissants.
• 17:53
  It doesn't matter what you want.
• 17:54
  Right.
• 17:55
  He'll make it.
• 17:56
  Amazing.
• 17:57
  And why sourdough different for the consumer?
• 17:59
  It feeds the bacteria in your large intestine and makes it something palatable for your body.
• 18:04
  Okay.
• 18:05
  So for hundreds of years people survived off bread.
• 18:07
  Right.
• 18:08
  And now everyone's gluten intolerant and makes people sick.
• 18:10
  Right.
• 18:11
  But the way bread is made today and the chemicals that is put into these recipes makes it so that it's glue-like in your large intestine.
• 18:17
  Okay.
• 18:18
  So it's not just gluten intolerant.
• 18:20
  It's not really real food anymore.
• 18:22
  Hmm.
• 18:23
  It's come back to a food-like product.
• 18:24
  Right.
• 18:25
  And so sourdough is just great.
• 18:27
  Because it's good.
• 18:28
  My whole wheat sourdough is 100% whole wheat, 100% sourdough.
• 18:32
  I help people with rheumatoid arthritis and get reduced inflammation in their bodies.
• 18:36
  Okay.
• 18:37
  And I've helped two people with your stomach ulcers.
• 18:39
  Do you think that your consumer...
• 18:43
  My question is, the average Jamaican wouldn't know necessarily sourdough before you turn up on the scene.
• 18:48
  When you opened your business, was there any resistance?
• 18:52
  Was there any like?
• 18:54
  Because presumably you were offering a premium product.
• 18:58
  How did you navigate that in terms of the buy-in from your consumer?
• 19:02
  Or did you just open up and everybody is like, oh, this is a foreign team.
• 19:05
  And sometimes you open up something that is foreign and everybody loves it.
• 19:09
  So everyone thought we were going to close our best clients for like, we bought all your bread the first week
• 19:13
  and put it in our freezer because we thought you were going to leave.
• 19:16
  So many of my best clients, they were like, damn, suck up now.
• 19:21
  So many of them, no really, they thought we were just going to go out of business.
• 19:24
  Why?
• 19:25
  Jamaica is not an easy place.
• 19:27
  Jamaica takes their food very seriously.
• 19:31
  They care very much about consistency.
• 19:34
  While it might be a new product, their taste buds are on point.
• 19:38
  Sure.
• 19:39
  You cannot fool a Jamaican into telling them that this is good.
• 19:42
  This is what it's like abroad.
• 19:44
  A lot of care is like abroad.
• 19:46
  This does not work here.
• 19:48
  So there was a lot of growing pains because my husband had never baked a muffin when he started this.
• 19:54
  He's an expert in sitting in an excavator and jacking up your apartment building.
• 19:58
  Sure.
• 19:59
  So the skill set is vastly different.
• 20:01
  That's why if you look in our bakery, we have like putty knives,
• 20:04
  because that's what he uses to clean up flour.
• 20:06
  Okay.
• 20:07
  Because these are the tools that he's used to.
• 20:10
  So it's funny, you'll see traces of construction throughout.
• 20:13
  And then where the plugs are, it's so brilliant,
• 20:16
  because everything has been designed really, really well.
• 20:18
  Okay.
• 20:19
  Not like my first one.
• 20:20
  Oh, sorry.
• 20:21
  No, because you need plugs in counters.
• 20:23
  And I do.
• 20:24
  And poles, yeah.
• 20:25
  So at least for that, we were covered in terms of building.
• 20:29
  But when he took over, he started his sourdough and her name is Sylvie.
• 20:34
  Okay.
• 20:35
  She's almost 10 years old.
• 20:36
  She is fully Jamaican.
• 20:37
  And when sourdough Mania brought her sourdough, which is called Roodle,
• 20:41
  does everyone name their sourdough?
• 20:43
  I think so.
• 20:44
  Okay.
• 20:45
  And Roodle was not as strong as Sylvie.
• 20:47
  Okay.
• 20:48
  I think because the, so back to your question of why is it different for sourdough and Jamaica?
• 20:51
  Yeah.
• 20:52
  Climate, the rate at which bacteria doubles.
• 20:55
  Humidity.
• 20:56
  All of these things factor in and every day it changes.
• 20:59
  Okay.
• 21:00
  So you don't have like a long cold winter or every day, it's going to be dry and cold.
• 21:02
  Sure.
• 21:03
  Every day, if it rains, the humidity is completely different.
• 21:06
  And that affects the dry for a couple days.
• 21:08
  If we have a Sahara dusk, everything.
• 21:11
  Sure.
• 21:12
  Plus our regular temperature fluctuations.
• 21:14
  So it was really very hard to learn what do you have to do when the bacteria behaves like this.
• 21:19
  Okay.
• 21:20
  If then, if then, if then, and the, if and then we're not done for the Caribbean.
• 21:25
  Right.
• 21:26
  When we called other bakeries in the Caribbean and they had sourdough, it was all yeast bread
• 21:30
  with, and this was before, it may be different now.
• 21:33
  Sure.
• 21:34
  But it was all yeast bread with sourdough in it for flavor.
• 21:36
  Not 100% sourdough bread.
• 21:38
  Okay.
• 21:39
  Why, so you said you're accustomed to what you were going to close?
• 21:42
  Yes.
• 21:43
  Why?
• 21:44
  I think there's a sharp learning curve when employing Jamaicans.
• 21:48
  Because there's a cultural clash.
• 21:50
  Okay.
• 21:51
  So the way I might speak to you may offend you.
• 21:53
  Where I'm being polite and vice versa.
• 21:55
  Oh, just because we do things differently.
• 21:57
  Right.
• 21:58
  The word hush in Jamaica means don't worry, it's going to be okay.
• 22:01
  I hate when people say hush.
• 22:02
  But in Canada, it means shut the fuck up.
• 22:04
  Right.
• 22:05
  So that was received.
• 22:06
  Coming to Jamaica, when the first time someone said hushed my kid, I was like, no, no, no, no.
• 22:10
  I'm reading into this wrong.
• 22:11
  There's no way this very nice woman would say that.
• 22:13
  Just told my little child off.
• 22:16
  For me, when people say hush, the thing it makes me think of the most is when my help was combing my hair.
• 22:19
  And you're like, and she's that hush man.
• 22:21
  I'm like, yeah, that's part of it.
• 22:23
  Everything is going to be okay.
• 22:25
  So things like that.
• 22:26
  Also, Jamaicans have a term for something that I think is present in all human cultures.
• 22:32
  But I love that there's a term for it in Jamaica and it's bad mind.
• 22:36
  Right.
• 22:37
  And for people that don't know what bad mind means, how would you describe it?
• 22:42
  How would I describe bad mind?
• 22:45
  Jealousy that makes you retaliate against someone who doesn't deserve it for a new reason.
• 22:51
  Sure.
• 22:52
  That's good.
• 22:53
  I think that's so when you have people doing well in a workspace, you will have other people that will cause problems.
• 23:01
  Sure.
• 23:02
  Attitudes, snickers, you know, shenanigans.
• 23:06
  So these shenanigans are not welcome.
• 23:09
  Sure.
• 23:10
  This is not a type of environment that you want.
• 23:12
  So one, learning to identify the shenanigans from jokes.
• 23:14
  Right.
• 23:15
  Because Jamaicans run jokes.
• 23:16
  They can be loud.
• 23:17
  They can be funny.
• 23:18
  So being able to understand the nuances.
• 23:20
  And sometimes I still miss it.
• 23:22
  Mm-hmm.
• 23:23
  And to understand that, okay, she's joking.
• 23:25
  She is exhibiting bad mind.
• 23:27
  Sure.
• 23:28
  Because if everyone has bad mind, good people will stay.
• 23:31
  Right.
• 23:32
  And we went through employees like underwear.
• 23:37
  Really hired and fired more people than I can count.
• 23:40
  That's really interesting because when I went to England to start my business, I was coming from the perspective of my dad's business.
• 23:46
  And there are people working for my dad that have been there longer than I've been alive.
• 23:49
  But that's the thing.
• 23:50
  Because it started.
• 23:51
  But his first couple years, did you ever ask him how that was?
• 23:54
  Now that we're having this conversation, I feel like I need to, right?
• 23:56
  Because I just have this point of reference.
• 23:57
  So my dad every Friday would get a crate of oranges.
• 24:00
  He loved oranges.
• 24:01
  And he'd sit at the top floor of the office and he'd just peel.
• 24:04
  And everybody knows, if you want to arrange, just come into the orange, right?
• 24:07
  And it was his way of, I guess, he doesn't like titles like CEO and stuff.
• 24:11
  So it's his way of just reminding everyone that my door is open.
• 24:15
  This is like a family business.
• 24:16
  It's really sweet.
• 24:17
  He's very lovely.
• 24:18
  But I thought that as long as you treat people well, you would automatically create that culture.
• 24:24
  And in the UK, that doesn't matter.
• 24:27
  Like, it doesn't matter at all.
• 24:29
  I mean, I've had like my head chef for like six and a half years, but that's rare in hospitality.
• 24:33
  And so it's really interesting to understand that it's a growing, you're saying that in the beginning, you're just like going through.
• 24:41
  Sorry for trouble, but also I am not of this culture.
• 24:44
  So when I started interviewing people, I also wasn't sure what to look for.
• 24:47
  But so if you seemed generally decent, why can't I try you?
• 24:52
  Sure.
• 24:53
  And then sometimes I speak funny.
• 24:54
  People are nervous sometimes.
• 24:56
  But you won't be nervous necessarily working.
• 24:58
  Sure.
• 24:59
  Because you're nervous, and I'm sure most of the jobs are for customer service.
• 25:04
  But I'm still going to try you.
• 25:06
  And you can maybe be a dishwasher if you can't do the right.
• 25:09
  So I tried a lot of people.
• 25:11
  Yeah.
• 25:12
  Maybe today I wouldn't have tried understanding culture a little bit better.
• 25:16
  What do you look for today?
• 25:17
  Someone who's not a suitcase.
• 25:19
  Someone goes from job to job.
• 25:22
  Okay.
• 25:23
  People who have worked places for a couple of years here or a couple of years there because you get a lot of people.
• 25:28
  And it's six months, three months, six months.
• 25:30
  And it's all the contract ended.
• 25:32
  But no one ever renews your contract.
• 25:34
  Right.
• 25:35
  Right.
• 25:36
  But I was like, oh well, let's give you a try before.
• 25:38
  Sure.
• 25:39
  And so, the sound's nice.
• 25:41
  It's just annoying.
• 25:49
  And you're ready?
• 25:51
  Funny because you're lovely.
• 25:54
  And you can like stop people and you won't get faced, right?
• 25:56
  Because you'll know that it's because of the thing.
• 25:58
  But like you stop from someone else who's talking to them.
• 26:00
  I think it's because of them.
• 26:03
  I turned out someone made a sex shock and said he was going to bring me a pencil for my birthday.
• 26:07
  And I thought he meant a real pencil.
• 26:09
  And then my friend was like, no, you idiot.
• 26:11
  He's talking about his dick.
• 26:12
  Oh, yeah.
• 26:13
  So I missed things.
• 26:19
  No, definitely.
• 26:21
  You didn't mean a pencil to write with.
• 26:23
  100%.
• 26:24
  Can you just remind me where I was?
• 26:25
  Sorry.
• 26:26
  We were at the plot way.
• 26:27
  You were telling me what you look for now.
• 26:28
  So not people just jumping around.
• 26:30
  So now, definitely looking for people who have had jobs for not necessarily large mountainous.
• 26:38
  But a couple years, one of our most famous and I say famous because she is known from one end to the island to the other.
• 26:46
  There's not a place I go in Jamaica where someone does not say my barista who makes coffee.
• 26:51
  She's the one.
• 26:52
  Everybody's angel.
• 26:53
  And in her interview, she was shy because she's just not an outspoken person.
• 26:58
  Sure.
• 26:59
  So if I was looking for someone with my personality only, I would have just, but I gave a chance to someone who was not an extrovert.
• 27:09
  And she has been one of the most beautiful souls in the bakery.
• 27:13
  Because she's one of the people who helped shift us away from bad mind.
• 27:17
  One good person, two good people.
• 27:19
  Sure.
• 27:20
  Three good people.
• 27:21
  Ooh, bad person doesn't want to be around.
• 27:23
  Good people.
• 27:24
  Yep.
• 27:25
  And so eventually that shift happened naturally and it was one good person at a time.
• 27:29
  And there's a few good people we lost along the way.
• 27:31
  Okay.
• 27:32
  Because the other energy wasn't right.
• 27:34
  And my husband was also at this moment baking and figuring things out.
• 27:39
  Sure.
• 27:40
  So there's a lot going on.
• 27:41
  Yeah.
• 27:42
  It's not just like he's totally his son.
• 27:43
  Sure.
• 27:44
  So at this point you're just trying to keep it balanced.
• 27:47
  Keep it balanced.
• 27:48
  And not kind of, yeah.
• 27:50
  I mean hospitality in any sense can be crazy.
• 27:53
  And I think people only understand hospitality when you've been in hospitality.
• 27:57
  Would you say that managing people is the biggest challenge in opening up the business here?
• 28:02
  I would say managing people, yes, but when you get your people here,
• 28:07
  you get your people here, which is where your dad's business, I think,
• 28:11
  your experiences with your dad's business comes in.
• 28:14
  Yeah.
• 28:15
  Because I have people that have started as janitors who are pastry chefs,
• 28:19
  sales staff, as pastry chef, people have potential in Jamaica.
• 28:23
  Jamaicans are talented.
• 28:25
  So if you find people who are motivated, coupled with that talent, you're good.
• 28:30
  You're great.
• 28:31
  That was my next question.
• 28:32
  We got rid of all of them.
• 28:33
  I don't want any.
• 28:34
  None!
• 28:35
  Please, please leave me in Jamaica.
• 28:38
  I'm happy here.
• 28:39
  I don't want to point at any fingers in countries, but we are good here.
• 28:46
  Do you find that you have to do a lot of training?
• 28:49
  Because obviously what you're doing is quite specialist.
• 28:51
  When you're hiring people, do you hire just basically character and have to teach them everything you want them to know?
• 28:55
  Exactly.
• 28:57
  You need to kind of have the want to work and the desire to learn.
• 29:03
  And if you have the ability to work, you may have more of an entry level position.
• 29:08
  But if you are capable, you can learn and be trained in so many areas.
• 29:14
  One of my new chef assistants is 18 years old and started as the dishwasher.
• 29:20
  But I've never seen the back so organized and so clean.
• 29:25
  So this shows me that you have a huge amount of potential.
• 29:28
  I can't leave you by the sink.
• 29:30
  The guy running my kitchen, he started out as a KP kitchen portal washing dishes.
• 29:34
  And I got him, I always say fresh off the boat, he'd just come from Nigeria.
• 29:38
  And basically he was doing temp work and people were really shitted to him wherever he went.
• 29:42
  And so he does a fill-in shift for me because someone's not turned up for work, but he did a better.
• 29:46
  And it was just because that was nice to him.
• 29:48
  You literally just treated him with respect.
• 29:50
  And his loyalty was with me forever.
• 29:53
  And I taught him everything he knew and he was running my kitchen.
• 29:56
  And before, like six months before, he had no idea anything.
• 30:00
  For bakers, we have found it and I say we, my husband, trained all the bakers.
• 30:05
  He has found it very difficult to take someone who's already a baker.
• 30:08
  Because the way they do things are so different.
• 30:11
  And they're very much stuck in the way they want to do things.
• 30:14
  That's why fellow watch chefs, that they don't want to learn how to make your bread.
• 30:19
  And they're like, well, why are you doing it like this?
• 30:21
  And you're like, well, this is how we get the bread that people want.
• 30:25
  But so we tend to find just, because it's very physical.
• 30:29
  So not that there's, it's not open to women, but yet to find a woman who can hold that much weight over her head.
• 30:34
  Sure.
• 30:35
  Because you have to load the bread.
• 30:37
  It's really heavy.
• 30:39
  But the guys are really great.
• 30:42
  When you came, obviously you are white Canadians coming to Jamaica and then you're employing, you're employing Jamaicans.
• 30:49
  How was that experience? Did you feel that there was some resistance?
• 30:53
  Was there any resentment from Jamaican people?
• 30:56
  Well, there's one woman that wrote an article on the national newspaper who insinuated I was racist.
• 31:02
  Okay, what did you do?
• 31:04
  I didn't give her a vanilla latte.
• 31:06
  What do you mean?
• 31:07
  Like, I don't even know. It's like the weirdest thing.
• 31:10
  I was in the kitchen that day.
• 31:11
  Right.
• 31:12
  And she didn't get her vanilla latte.
• 31:14
  And a prominent Jamaican man.
• 31:17
  I think had dumped her recently.
• 31:19
  Okay.
• 31:20
  And someone else knocked her up.
• 31:21
  So she was fragile.
• 31:22
  So I think the hormones having been pregnant, maybe that's what got the best of her.
• 31:26
  Right.
• 31:27
  But I'm not racist.
• 31:29
  Okay.
• 31:30
  I invited her to come ask my staff when I wasn't there.
• 31:33
  Because Jamaicans are truthful.
• 31:34
  But I'm not telling you the truth.
• 31:36
  Especially if the boss isn't there.
• 31:38
  So I invited her.
• 31:41
  I'm rough in the kitchen.
• 31:42
  I cannot tell you that if you put me in the kitchen, I'm soft and bubbly.
• 31:46
  Because the food needs to come out.
• 31:48
  But it has to be good.
• 31:49
  Like, there's no time.
• 31:51
  It's no.
• 31:53
  So the kitchen is probably not the nicest version of me, you guess.
• 31:57
  Sure.
• 31:58
  I've grown a lot.
• 31:59
  But still, it's a stressful, stressful place.
• 32:03
  So she could have observed you in that.
• 32:05
  Maybe she saw me being allowed.
• 32:07
  And I'm already loud.
• 32:08
  So if I'm stressed out, I'm probably really loud.
• 32:11
  Right.
• 32:12
  And if there's a mistake, I'm probably loud and the bakery's open.
• 32:16
  So I can see how it can come across.
• 32:18
  But I think before making such huge allegations, one might want to speak to the person
• 32:23
  who believes is the victim.
• 32:25
  Sure.
• 32:26
  And there wasn't.
• 32:27
  So when it was blasted on social media.
• 32:29
  Oh, it was blasted on social media.
• 32:30
  I had been invited her to speak to the staff, which she didn't take kindly to.
• 32:34
  Oh.
• 32:35
  And then she...
• 32:36
  I mentioned she's not black.
• 32:37
  Also, she's not black.
• 32:38
  No, no, no.
• 32:39
  So the lady who says you're racist, is it black?
• 32:41
  No.
• 32:42
  But she is just fighting for the people that didn't need...
• 32:45
  I need...
• 32:46
  Okay, you'd have to ask her that.
• 32:47
  Cool.
• 32:48
  Yeah.
• 32:49
  Did she come when you invited her to come?
• 32:50
  I don't think so.
• 32:51
  Because then she went to the observer to write the article.
• 32:54
  Oh.
• 32:55
  Okay.
• 32:56
  So then they wrote the lady who owns the coffee shop that sells bread.
• 32:59
  So not my name, but there's no one else that fits that criteria on the other.
• 33:04
  And how people like me shouldn't be allowed here to take advantage and exploit Jamaicans.
• 33:09
  Okay.
• 33:10
  I wholeheartedly disagree.
• 33:12
  Right.
• 33:13
  My helper wanted to go jump her.
• 33:15
  No, because she's been treated really terribly.
• 33:17
  Oh, man.
• 33:18
  And I don't know.
• 33:20
  My helper's like my mother.
• 33:21
  I'm so fortunate.
• 33:22
  What's the health of the last?
• 33:23
  People that don't know.
• 33:24
  Oh, a housekeeper.
• 33:25
  Right.
• 33:26
  Someone has like adopted me and has helped me survive my life.
• 33:29
  Sure.
• 33:30
  And has helped me with my children.
• 33:31
  And has helped me balance children and work, which was missing before and my children suffered.
• 33:35
  Okay.
• 33:36
  So when you just came to Jamaica, you didn't automatically get to help them?
• 33:40
  No.
• 33:41
  Okay.
• 33:42
  Do you have help in in Montreal?
• 33:43
  Yes, but the hourly wage is more expensive.
• 33:46
  Okay.
• 33:47
  So it's less available.
• 33:49
  Okay.
• 33:50
  But it was hard because there's also again a lot of cultural differences in people.
• 33:55
  And depending on what class you come from and what you have access to in your life,
• 34:00
  you make clean and different ways.
• 34:02
  Okay.
• 34:03
  For example, I had one lady that came in and she used my tide to clean the kitchen.
• 34:08
  Okay.
• 34:09
  As in tide for the clothes.
• 34:10
  To clean the kitchen.
• 34:11
  Okay.
• 34:12
  And it's not because she was not intelligent.
• 34:14
  It's because she didn't know.
• 34:16
  Right.
• 34:17
  And the products she was used to seeing weren't there.
• 34:19
  Okay.
• 34:20
  And this was her trying to do the best she can.
• 34:21
  Sure.
• 34:22
  So there's moments where I may misunderstand you.
• 34:26
  Right.
• 34:27
  But it's only because I don't understand everything is new to me.
• 34:30
  Right.
• 34:31
  And I have a lot to learn.
• 34:32
  Right.
• 34:33
  So no, we did not get a helper right away.
• 34:35
  We went through different helpers.
• 34:36
  Right.
• 34:37
  Trying to find a good fit.
• 34:38
  Right.
• 34:39
  And let me tell you, I'll pick up Glenna because G-Mama is...
• 34:44
  So you've opened your business.
• 34:46
  You don't have a helper.
• 34:47
  How are you managing your kids in the business?
• 34:49
  Luckily for me, I have great kids and a very responsible older daughter.
• 34:53
  Okay.
• 34:54
  And a quite responsible second daughter.
• 34:56
  Sure.
• 34:57
  And then at this point, there was a little brother who caused a lot of stress.
• 35:00
  You know what?
• 35:01
  He's very active.
• 35:02
  He's a doll, but he's especially at five.
• 35:04
  He was a handful.
• 35:05
  Right.
• 35:06
  And so my kids had to sacrifice a lot as well.
• 35:08
  Okay.
• 35:09
  When you say sacrifice, what did they look like for a child?
• 35:11
  That looks like not having your parents home all the time.
• 35:13
  Okay.
• 35:14
  Is your mother picks you up, drives you home, but doesn't necessarily stay with you.
• 35:17
  But then nine and eight.
• 35:19
  Well, we didn't open up the bakery right away.
• 35:21
  Okay.
• 35:22
  So my oldest turned 10 soon after we moved.
• 35:24
  By it.
• 35:25
  And then we opened up the bakery the year later, kind of.
• 35:27
  Okay.
• 35:28
  So there was some time.
• 35:29
  But come at 11 years old and you can start baking.
• 35:31
  Sure.
• 35:32
  And if not, they spent every afternoon at the bakery.
• 35:34
  Did they like that?
• 35:35
  I think maybe at the beginning, they liked the idea of a bakery.
• 35:39
  Sure.
• 35:40
  Because it was always a treat when we were in Montreal.
• 35:42
  Right.
• 35:43
  But I think they learned first hand what it takes to start a business from scratch.
• 35:47
  And I don't think they appreciated having to live through it.
• 35:51
  Sure.
• 35:52
  But they learned a lot and it helped form their lovely characters, I think.
• 35:57
  Do you think they'd take the bakery over?
• 36:01
  I think because of the bakery, we've been fortunate enough to meet such interesting people like I've gotten a chance to meet you.
• 36:07
  So because of that, I think they would always take the bakery.
• 36:11
  Okay.
• 36:12
  Because, let's say, one of my daughters would never have found this beautiful piano teacher and this beautiful cello teacher.
• 36:19
  Okay.
• 36:20
  My world would have not come into contact with their world.
• 36:22
  Sure.
• 36:23
  So they're just...
• 36:24
  So the bakery has become a hub for interesting people.
• 36:29
  In a way that some people might say a cocktail bar becomes like the hub.
• 36:32
  I would like to think so.
• 36:33
  Yeah.
• 36:34
  It's like a cheers.
• 36:35
  People will tell me it's their happy place.
• 36:36
  It's funny.
• 36:37
  The first time I ever went to your bakery, clearly many years ago, for ever met you.
• 36:40
  The thing that struck me the most was when I opened the door and the AC was blazing.
• 36:44
  Oh.
• 36:45
  That was the thing.
• 36:46
  Because I'd been to bakeries before and they're hot.
• 36:48
  And you can't do proper fattisserie when it's hot.
• 36:51
  Oh, you are right.
• 36:52
  And I was like, these people mean business because you are spending a lot of money on that electricity.
• 36:55
  It is not called enough for the fattisserie.
• 36:57
  Really?
• 36:58
  It is not for me.
• 36:59
  Did pastry chef, if she had it?
• 37:00
  Because remember, we did not know what we were doing.
• 37:05
  So the Frenchman, Patrick, was like, oh, it's all the rage in France.
• 37:09
  Open bakeries.
• 37:10
  Okay.
• 37:11
  So we're like, okay.
• 37:12
  Open bakery.
• 37:13
  Here we go.
• 37:15
  So we left it open, but understanding the temperature you needed for proper questions and chocolate.
• 37:20
  Okay.
• 37:21
  And it's very, very difficult.
• 37:23
  How do you manage that when there will be a close space for my pastry chef?
• 37:30
  Well, not exactly the quality of her products will go up without having to do anything differently.
• 37:34
  Right.
• 37:35
  We do the best we can.
• 37:36
  Sure.
• 37:37
  We do the pastries when the bakery closes.
• 37:40
  Sure.
• 37:41
  When no one's baking and we try to bring the temperature down to 19 degrees.
• 37:44
  Oh, yeah.
• 37:45
  We try our best.
• 37:46
  Yeah.
• 37:47
  It is difficult.
• 37:48
  Yeah.
• 37:49
  So I love that you said that, but it's still...
• 37:50
  Not good enough.
• 37:51
  A struggle.
• 37:52
  Like, it's a real struggle.
• 37:53
  When it's time to do the Christmas logs and they're all covered in chocolate with chocolate.
• 37:58
  And that's why we don't do more chocolate.
• 38:00
  Right.
• 38:01
  Because it's so different.
• 38:02
  And you don't realize how difficult it is to not get your butter to melt into your flour layers as you're sheeting your stuff.
• 38:08
  Yeah.
• 38:09
  So our stuff is really, really great.
• 38:13
  But if we could change just a bit of construction for my pastry chef,
• 38:17
  or something that would get better without her having to do anything different.
• 38:20
  What's the thing people buy the most?
• 38:22
  Cossons.
• 38:24
  Okay.
• 38:26
  French people will hate this, but my most popular sandwich is on a croissant.
• 38:30
  Oh, really?
• 38:31
  Yes, because you don't eat sandwiches on croissants in me.
• 38:33
  Right.
• 38:34
  No, yeah.
• 38:35
  Blast for me.
• 38:36
  So we do ham, egg and cheese.
• 38:37
  I think that's our number one seller.
• 38:38
  Okay.
• 38:41
  So you open your baked cream.
• 38:43
  In the beginning, I'm guessing, for my own experience.
• 38:45
  It's a bit rough.
• 38:46
  Oh.
• 38:47
  Right.
• 38:48
  Rough.
• 38:49
  This is nine years old.
• 38:50
  Then I get pregnant.
• 38:51
  After opening.
• 38:52
  Yes.
• 38:53
  Because I'm a brilliant genius.
• 38:55
  Okay.
• 38:56
  How long into opening?
• 38:57
  Are we pregnant?
• 38:58
  Are we open September?
• 39:00
  Yep.
• 39:01
  I had the baby the following December.
• 39:03
  So my family area.
• 39:04
  I was pregnant.
• 39:05
  I was pregnant.
• 39:06
  Okay.
• 39:07
  So at this point, are you quite hands-on as a bakery?
• 39:12
  Or more than every day.
• 39:13
  Okay.
• 39:14
  You're there.
• 39:15
  Everyone.
• 39:16
  The kids.
• 39:17
  Everyone's there every day.
• 39:18
  Everyone is there all the time.
• 39:19
  We live at the baked cream.
• 39:20
  Yes.
• 39:21
  Which is funny because.
• 39:22
  So I get pregnant during COVID, which is great because there's a lockdown.
• 39:25
  We reopen and one day I'm on the pass.
• 39:28
  I'm plating my beautiful food.
• 39:30
  And I see red.
• 39:32
  It's like.
• 39:33
  Where is this?
• 39:34
  I'm literally looking.
• 39:35
  Where is this red coming from?
• 39:36
  Only to realize my nose is bleeding on people's food at the past.
• 39:40
  Because you're pregnant, heavily pregnant.
• 39:42
  And like, you're nose.
• 39:43
  It's probably thing.
• 39:44
  Nose bleeds.
• 39:45
  I was like, oh.
• 39:46
  And so I'm literally holding my face.
• 39:48
  And then someone has to come in and take over the bus.
• 39:51
  I say that to say, when you're pregnant and you're running a business.
• 39:55
  It's not the best combo.
• 39:57
  I'm your feeder swollen, like extra swollen.
• 40:02
  One day I had, because my muscles, as my abs were expanding,
• 40:06
  there was just a lot of pain.
• 40:08
  And they didn't know if my placenta had come off the wall of my uterus.
• 40:11
  Okay.
• 40:12
  So I had to go for X-rays.
• 40:13
  Yeah.
• 40:14
  I pulled my abdominals.
• 40:15
  Okay.
• 40:16
  The baby was born on Monday.
• 40:17
  Because back then we were closed on Monday.
• 40:19
  Okay.
• 40:20
  So I was induced Monday morning.
• 40:21
  Right.
• 40:22
  So the baby could be born on Monday.
• 40:23
  And my husband could go back to work on Tuesday.
• 40:24
  Okay.
• 40:25
  And then the baby was born on Monday.
• 40:27
  And then I went back to work on Friday.
• 40:28
  To a 13-hour shift with my newborn.
• 40:32
  It was really sad.
• 40:33
  Because my husband, from my husband to call me.
• 40:36
  And I have a small baby and tell me he needs my help.
• 40:39
  Okay.
• 40:40
  He must really show up.
• 40:41
  Sure.
• 40:42
  When I was pregnant with my first daughter, my husband had three jobs.
• 40:44
  And I had none.
• 40:45
  Okay.
• 40:46
  So when he gives the coin, he calls.
• 40:47
  And he's like, you have to come.
• 40:48
  I need help.
• 40:49
  I cannot.
• 40:50
  He was baking.
• 40:51
  He was baking.
• 40:52
  Because he was baking and making coffees at the same time.
• 40:54
  Okay.
• 40:55
  And you can't have someone to get the coffee.
• 40:57
  But there was no coffee culture.
• 40:59
  This was before Starbucks and Jamaica.
• 41:01
  Okay.
• 41:02
  So you can't just hire a barista.
• 41:03
  Yep.
• 41:04
  And we couldn't find someone long enough to train properly, to stay.
• 41:07
  Take over.
• 41:08
  Right.
• 41:09
  So, weeks in.
• 41:10
  Because being pregnant and working is not your best combo.
• 41:15
  So, so a fine and fine.
• 41:17
  But we're making coffees.
• 41:18
  And he goes, I need help.
• 41:19
  No, but he needs to bake.
• 41:20
  But you need to take care of the bread.
• 41:21
  Because it's sourdough.
• 41:22
  Right.
• 41:23
  But you have to stop to make coffees for people.
• 41:24
  Right.
• 41:25
  So he was just running back and forth.
• 41:26
  And it was really, honestly, my heart broke when I got there.
• 41:29
  Yep.
• 41:30
  And the cashier said coffee order and he came running.
• 41:32
  And his hands were filled with flour.
• 41:35
  I was just like, I'm not just like, just bake.
• 41:39
  Okay.
• 41:40
  And then we took over the coffee station.
• 41:42
  She slept underneath the counter.
• 41:45
  And she slept on the freezer behind the cash.
• 41:49
  Okay.
• 41:50
  And someone who owns a mattress company was like, she's sleeping on that blanket on the floor
• 41:56
  and made her a little mattress that day under the counter.
• 41:59
  No, really, people were lovely.
• 42:01
  Someone walks in one day and she's like, she needs a walker.
• 42:03
  And the next day someone walks in and is like, I was asked to deliver the walker.
• 42:08
  You know, I have the loveliest clients.
• 42:11
  And there was also, this is awful.
• 42:15
  I am friends with one person at the State Department, a US State Department.
• 42:19
  Sure.
• 42:20
  He came back to visit.
• 42:21
  And someone he had worked with before, because you know, it's all these shifts.
• 42:24
  Sure.
• 42:25
  So he sees someone.
• 42:26
  And they're at the bakery and he doesn't, this man I don't know, doesn't know that I'm friends.
• 42:30
  Okay.
• 42:31
  And he asks the owner there.
• 42:34
  And my friend's like, oh man, she just left.
• 42:37
  He's like, oh, we used to have a WhatsApp group about her breasts.
• 42:42
  And my friend goes, excuse me?
• 42:44
  And he goes, yeah, one of us would go to check if she was breastfeeding.
• 42:48
  And she was breastfeeding.
• 42:49
  He messaged the breast of us and all go for a call.
• 42:52
  Shut up.
• 42:53
  So I had men gawking at my breasts.
• 42:56
  Was breastfeeding?
• 42:58
  Yes.
• 42:59
  I did crack jokes for the people who are lactose intolerant, like natural milk.
• 43:03
  No one ever took it.
• 43:05
  Wow.
• 43:08
  Like, people are actually mad.
• 43:11
  No, I thought that was kind of gross.
• 43:13
  And I didn't realize it was happening.
• 43:14
  I had no idea.
• 43:15
  So I only found out about this last year.
• 43:17
  Okay.
• 43:18
  Baby seven now.
• 43:20
  That you had a WhatsApp group about my breasts.
• 43:23
  And talk about your nosebleed.
• 43:25
  You're serving people and then the discharge of the nose.
• 43:27
  And you got like, yeah, bull's eyes around your boobs.
• 43:30
  Oh my God.
• 43:31
  Yeah.
• 43:32
  It's a good thing I'm not embarrassed easily.
• 43:34
  Do you resent the bakery at all?
• 43:36
  No.
• 43:37
  In terms of that experience of motherhood?
• 43:38
  No.
• 43:39
  If I had been better organized, if I had done things differently, I could have avoided that.
• 43:43
  I feel like I wasn't prepared well enough and I couldn't have anticipated with trying to learn everything that we had talked about already.
• 43:52
  There was just so much on that plate that I could have added something.
• 43:55
  I didn't realize how to in time to be prepared.
• 44:00
  Okay.
• 44:01
  I guess I'm still trying to understand how we go from construction to bakery.
• 44:04
  Why didn't you stay in construction?
• 44:06
  Well, because I wanted bread.
• 44:08
  Okay.
• 44:09
  Like, and I figured if it was a problem for me, it must be a problem for all the people.
• 44:13
  And I heard that the more absolute members of our society, when they were in Miami, because they go back and forth.
• 44:19
  Right.
• 44:20
  Which is, bring home bread and put in their freezers.
• 44:21
  Okay.
• 44:22
  So now they don't have to because they just come to you.
• 44:23
  And I have better bread than those places.
• 44:26
  And now they don't have to stock up in the freezer because nine years later you're still here.
• 44:29
  Fresh.
• 44:30
  And I'm not close.
• 44:31
  There you go.
• 44:32
  But so many people thought we'd be close.
• 44:34
  Like, good clients of ours.
• 44:36
  Like, I love.
• 44:38
  And then I'm just wondering, in terms of your social life and really like fitting into the culture of Jamaica,
• 44:44
  because it sounds like you'll at work all the time, except for the Monday.
• 44:48
  But then we're open every day now.
• 44:50
  Okay, great.
• 44:51
  So we're at work all day every day.
• 44:53
  How do you feel that that affected your ability to become a part of like a Jamaican community?
• 45:00
  Or do you even feel a part of a Jamaican community?
• 45:02
  Maybe don't.
• 45:03
  I feel very much part of the Kingstonian community.
• 45:06
  Okay.
• 45:07
  Because the bakery has really kind of found its groove.
• 45:09
  Right.
• 45:10
  And we've done things for the community.
• 45:11
  We've done charity events for the community.
• 45:13
  So I think we are a part of the community.
• 45:15
  Right.
• 45:16
  Personally, I think I built my own community because I'm a bit of an oddball.
• 45:20
  Right.
• 45:21
  So I don't think I belong to a group of friends.
• 45:23
  Sure.
• 45:24
  But I have very interesting friends.
• 45:25
  Even though the Kingston is very clikky.
• 45:27
  I didn't grow up here.
• 45:29
  Yeah.
• 45:30
  I think I could see it.
• 45:31
  Okay.
• 45:32
  When I look at some of my clients and maybe how they interact.
• 45:35
  But we have big communal tables.
• 45:37
  People still sit together.
• 45:38
  Sure.
• 45:39
  Sometimes it's weird for people at first and they're like, where am I supposed to sit?
• 45:42
  And where are you buying?
• 45:44
  So you don't feel like it prevented you from...
• 45:46
  Maybe because it's a social business as well.
• 45:48
  Like people are coming.
• 45:49
  Very social.
• 45:50
  Yeah.
• 45:51
  I've gotten a chance to meet really interesting people.
• 45:53
  What's your favourite customer story?
• 45:56
  When the woman came up to me and said, when I use the vibrator,
• 46:00
  I don't like it inside.
• 46:03
  And I looked at her and I was just like, try the top.
• 46:08
  I should have said try the other hole.
• 46:10
  But I wasn't expecting the question.
• 46:13
  Okay.
• 46:14
  Solving people's problems not just with bread.
• 46:17
  That one was pretty weird.
• 46:18
  And once I was breastfeeding, I'm going to demonstrate because it's kind of weird.
• 46:22
  And this, I'm sorry.
• 46:23
  I'm going to take this.
• 46:24
  So we have these little circular tables before the big tables.
• 46:27
  And I'm here and I'm breastfeeding my baby.
• 46:30
  And there's a couple here.
• 46:31
  Right.
• 46:32
  And I'm talking to them.
• 46:33
  Right.
• 46:34
  And then the woman looks at me and goes, you're everything I would have wanted in a man.
• 46:38
  Oh.
• 46:39
  And I went, oh.
• 46:41
  And I just turned to her husband who was much more normal.
• 46:45
  And just continued talking with him.
• 46:47
  So I said, while breastfeeding,
• 46:49
  you're everything that she wanted in a man.
• 46:51
  Yes.
• 46:52
  Okay.
• 46:53
  Yes, yes, yes.
• 46:54
  Cool.
• 46:55
  Yes, yes.
• 46:56
  I have nothing else to add.
• 46:57
  You know what Taylor is?
• 46:58
  I asked you what's your lovely customer story and you told me about her.
• 47:00
  The craziest one?
• 47:01
  What is your worst customer story?
• 47:04
  Well, the one that wrote about me in the newspaper was very cool.
• 47:11
  Sure.
• 47:12
  There's this crazy woman, Chris Smith, who came in and wanted to order a lot of things,
• 47:17
  but then didn't want to put a deposit.
• 47:18
  Right.
• 47:19
  And then we have caddies with like straws and oysters and napkins and salt and pepper.
• 47:23
  She just smacked one off right before the door.
• 47:27
  And it just went flying and it broke and we're just like, okay.
• 47:31
  I don't think you were coming to pay for your stuff.
• 47:34
  Like, I don't understand.
• 47:35
  Like, this is how you felt about the deposit.
• 47:37
  I was like the 23rd.
• 47:38
  She wanted it for the 24th.
• 47:40
  But she didn't want to pay the deposit.
• 47:42
  That's the that one.
• 47:43
  That one was pretty good.
• 47:45
  And where do you see Lenny's in 10-15 years?
• 47:48
  I'd love to add dinner.
• 47:49
  Oh really?
• 47:50
  It's just working.
• 47:51
  It's trained for space.
• 47:52
  I have so many ideas.
• 47:53
  Okay.
• 47:54
  And would it be along the Italian lines that you kind of spoke about before?
• 47:57
  What are the Italian lines?
• 47:58
  You said that when you saw the space, you were thinking Italian food.
• 48:01
  Oh!
• 48:02
  When you think of it.
• 48:03
  Maybe not.
• 48:04
  I think kind of like my kids say we feed Kingston what they grew up eating as children.
• 48:09
  Okay.
• 48:10
  I think a lot of those things.
• 48:11
  Which is fun stuff I want to share with you.
• 48:13
  Okay.
• 48:14
  Cool.
• 48:15
  Top secret.
• 48:16
  For when.
• 48:17
  Look it for you later.
• 48:18
  Off camera.
• 48:19
  There.
• 48:20
  And I am a vegetarian so they'd be a happy amount of vegetarian offerings.
• 48:24
  Cool.
• 48:26
  Oh sorry.
• 48:27
  He said sorry.
• 48:28
  I heard you sorry.
• 48:29
  Yeah.
• 48:30
  We all heard you.
• 48:31
  Yeah.
• 48:32
  I guess my question about having such a unique business, right?
• 48:36
  Because there are other bakeries in Jamaica but your offering is clearly unique to the landscape.
• 48:40
  Do you think that has helped you like hold your peace of the pie?
• 48:47
  I think we found a little niche that no one knew needed to be serviced.
• 48:51
  Yeah.
• 48:53
  To be honest if you told me they idea like let's say I was your friend when you arrived in Canada
• 48:57
  and you told me this what you want to do.
• 48:59
  I would just think it's not sustainable.
• 49:01
  No one thinks it is.
• 49:02
  And I think I have an understanding of my market different to people who have grown up here.
• 49:07
  Yeah.
• 49:08
  Because I would see it as the place that in the beginning there would be a hype and a love for it.
• 49:13
  But then I'd be like I wonder if it's going to be like sustained.
• 49:16
  So they literally broke our doors when we opened.
• 49:18
  What do you mean?
• 49:19
  I did a lot of marketing so I started with 5,000 followers on Facebook.
• 49:22
  Okay.
• 49:23
  So the day we opened there was a lineup.
• 49:25
  Okay.
• 49:26
  And they literally broke our doors.
• 49:27
  That was not to fix the doors.
• 49:29
  Except we had never cash.
• 49:30
  We didn't have a problem.
• 49:31
  It was just it was lovely.
• 49:34
  Honestly like to look back at it you can just laugh and smile because it was so intense.
• 49:38
  We never expected so many people.
• 49:40
  Right.
• 49:41
  But like my husband I don't think my husband picked his head up.
• 49:44
  And then like we hadn't trained everyone for bags and so they didn't know how to wrap things.
• 49:48
  So we had these papers from France at Patrick and so you're supposed to wrap the bag it up.
• 49:52
  And you would as I get it out.
• 49:54
  And so no it was just where it is.
• 49:56
  And then the girls were trying to serve too.
• 49:58
  No really the kids were awesome.
• 50:01
  So it was crazy.
• 50:04
  So I think the market was underserved.
• 50:08
  Okay.
• 50:09
  And I think the market is still underserved.
• 50:11
  So because people begged me to go to Moby.
• 50:13
  People begged me to go to Moby.
• 50:14
  I mean not to go to RG.
• 50:15
  Yeah.
• 50:16
  People begged me to go to the grill.
• 50:17
  People want me in Portland but it's still a bit quieter in Portland.
• 50:20
  Sure.
• 50:21
  So it's not the same kind of like we need you.
• 50:22
  We need you.
• 50:23
  Yeah.
• 50:24
  But people have offered to partner with me because they live in Cayman to open this in Cayman.
• 50:28
  People love the bakery and I'm so grateful for it.
• 50:32
  Are you thinking that that's something that you would do?
• 50:35
  No.
• 50:36
  Oh okay.
• 50:37
  Why?
• 50:38
  It's a lot of work.
• 50:39
  Like we have a really lovely lovely place but we put a lot of time into it.
• 50:45
  It runs well.
• 50:46
  It's consistent.
• 50:47
  And before you can go do something else it would have to run perfectly on its own I think.
• 50:53
  Is that ever possible in hospitality?
• 50:55
  I don't think so to be honest.
• 50:57
  Yeah.
• 50:58
  I learned that if my team are doing 70% without me.
• 51:01
  Luckily I think that actually in London the standard is quite low in terms of for example customer service.
• 51:06
  And that warmth that is natural is the Jamaican in terms of really caring for people.
• 51:11
  And I was like if they hit 70% of what I want then we're in a good place.
• 51:16
  Right?
• 51:17
  And I had to kind of just get comfortable with that.
• 51:19
  And so I wonder if there's anything like really perfect in the space of hospitality.
• 51:24
  But is there anything perfect in a human?
• 51:26
  Yeah, true.
• 51:27
  So humans are...
• 51:28
  Wow.
• 51:29
  So you would never have lots of a learning?
• 51:31
  No.
• 51:32
  No, no.
• 51:33
  Really?
• 51:34
  Can I say that maybe when I open one up somewhere else may...
• 51:38
  Sure.
• 51:39
  No, absolutely not.
• 51:40
  Okay.
• 51:41
  But see foolishly when I first opened I was like a Lenny's all over the earth.
• 51:45
  No, okay.
• 51:46
  But we also thought people would take our bread and add it to their menus and do stuff with it.
• 51:51
  Okay.
• 51:52
  And they don't really, they stick with what they know and what they'd been using before we had opened.
• 51:56
  Cool.
• 51:57
  Pre-COVID there was a restaurant in Portmore that was doing breakfast and that was buying large volumes of stuff.
• 52:03
  But since COVID I'm not sure what happened to that restaurant.
• 52:06
  So people are trying.
• 52:08
  I definitely think there's a lot that can be done.
• 52:10
  She makes love food.
• 52:11
  They love exploring.
• 52:12
  They love going out.
• 52:14
  They're curious about food.
• 52:16
  So I think there's lots, lots, lots that can be done.
• 52:19
  Did you miss anything else food wise other than bread?
• 52:23
  When you just came?
• 52:24
  Maple syrup?
• 52:26
  I feel like that's now Canadian's thing.
• 52:29
  Maple syrup.
• 52:30
  Especially if you're from Quebec.
• 52:32
  Because it's just...
• 52:33
  I need to give this from God.
• 52:35
  I need this maple syrup.
• 52:36
  You want the dark one?
• 52:37
  Okay.
• 52:38
  Nothing.
• 52:39
  All the way.
• 52:40
  Anything else other than maple syrup?
• 52:42
  Food wise?
• 52:43
  Do you sell maple syrup at the bakery?
• 52:45
  I do not.
• 52:46
  It's not pancakes.
• 52:47
  It's like a side of maple syrup.
• 52:48
  Okay.
• 52:49
  But now we're like cans.
• 52:50
  Food wise?
• 52:51
  What do I miss?
• 52:53
  Which make us the best Indian food?
• 52:56
  I have ever tasted it.
• 52:58
  I had...
• 53:00
  I would eat a decent amount of Indian food,
• 53:02
  which was multicultural.
• 53:04
  I'd like to say our food is great.
• 53:06
  Our Indian food is pretty solid,
• 53:08
  but Jamaica...
• 53:09
  What makes it so special?
• 53:11
  I think the Indians that have opened up the Indian restaurants here
• 53:14
  have stayed true to the way things are made
• 53:17
  and the chefs that they bring in from India.
• 53:19
  Okay.
• 53:20
  I know that tamarind and saffron
• 53:24
  have very, very high quality ingredients.
• 53:27
  Okay.
• 53:28
  I've spoken to the owner.
• 53:29
  They use a lot of the same suppliers we do.
• 53:30
  But you're very, very comfortable eating there.
• 53:32
  But...
• 53:33
  So...
• 53:34
  And then the Indians tell me that
• 53:35
  this is really good Indian food.
• 53:37
  So when I think it is,
• 53:38
  and the people who have grown up in India are telling me
• 53:41
  this is great Indian food,
• 53:42
  it's really great Indian food.
• 53:44
  The Jamaican food here is great.
• 53:46
  Ital food is lots of fun.
• 53:49
  What's ital?
• 53:50
  Ital is no sugar,
• 53:51
  no meat,
• 53:52
  no eggs,
• 53:53
  no salt,
• 53:54
  no anything.
• 53:55
  I add salt to my food though.
• 53:57
  I do add salt to my food.
• 53:59
  But the way Rasta's eat just from the ground,
• 54:01
  and it's great.
• 54:02
  And this is based on no scientific evidence,
• 54:05
  but only observations inside moved here.
• 54:07
  Sure.
• 54:08
  I think the traditional Jamaican diet
• 54:10
  is one of the best in the world.
• 54:11
  And they did that whole series, you know,
• 54:13
  the blue zone.
• 54:14
  Yeah.
• 54:15
  And I think Jamaica should have been included
• 54:17
  because everyone has a grandma who's a hundred five years old.
• 54:20
  Right.
• 54:21
  Or an auntie.
• 54:22
  Yeah.
• 54:23
  And if you eat like them,
• 54:25
  it's very different than how the youth of Jamaica eat today.
• 54:28
  Sure.
• 54:30
  But if you go back to how Jamaicans ate traditionally,
• 54:33
  I believe it's one of the best diets,
• 54:35
  because there's so much,
• 54:37
  what Jamaicans call food,
• 54:38
  which is Yann,
• 54:39
  green bananas,
• 54:40
  so much things grown from the earth,
• 54:43
  and then vegetables,
• 54:44
  and then it's small amounts of meat,
• 54:46
  it's small amounts of fish.
• 54:47
  And people have this idea that
• 54:49
  in Jamaica we just eat meat.
• 54:51
  I think it's just because jerk chicken is so amazing,
• 54:54
  that that's what's popular.
• 54:55
  Sure.
• 54:56
  I think it's just because it's so...
• 54:58
  Yeah.
• 54:59
  Is there anything that when you had that vision,
• 55:02
  when you looked beyond and you were like,
• 55:04
  I think we're doing life wrong?
• 55:05
  Is there anything that you were expecting
• 55:07
  that didn't happen when you arrived?
• 55:09
  I was expecting less white people.
• 55:11
  You were expecting less white people.
• 55:13
  Oh really?
• 55:14
  I was shocked to see how many white Jamaicans there were.
• 55:16
  Oh really?
• 55:17
  Because when you travel in the country,
• 55:18
  yet there's less white Jamaicans.
• 55:20
  Sure.
• 55:21
  So not that I hadn't seen any.
• 55:22
  Right.
• 55:23
  I just wasn't expecting that many.
• 55:24
  That many.
• 55:25
  And so many Jamaicans.
• 55:27
  Chinese Jamaicans.
• 55:28
  Yes.
• 55:29
  And then so many Indian Jamaicans too.
• 55:30
  Right.
• 55:31
  You have this...
• 55:32
  I had a preconceived notion that you're going to
• 55:34
  a place in the Caribbean and Trinidad has the Indian people.
• 55:37
  And Jamaica has the black people.
• 55:38
  Oh right.
• 55:39
  But Jamaica is a hard part of everything.
• 55:41
  Let me tell you.
• 55:42
  That's really funny.
• 55:43
  And most people don't realize.
• 55:46
  No.
• 55:47
  Yeah.
• 55:48
  And then so I remember a Jamaican friend of mine,
• 55:50
  who was like, wait till we go to the grocery store
• 55:52
  and you'd see the Chinese bread,
• 55:53
  but he can't speak English because he's only learned
• 55:55
  Patoa.
• 55:56
  Yes.
• 55:57
  And so that's fun.
• 55:58
  That's fun.
• 55:59
  My friend visited me from New York when I was in school.
• 56:01
  And she saw a man, Mr. Chin.
• 56:03
  And she was just...
• 56:04
  I was like, babe, stop staring.
• 56:06
  She's like, but how does he speak like that?
• 56:08
  I was like, yeah.
• 56:09
  She had no idea.
• 56:10
  Because it's really fun.
• 56:11
  They learned Patoa.
• 56:12
  Yeah.
• 56:13
  Because Patoa is very much its own language.
• 56:15
  Yeah.
• 56:16
  But that's crazy.
• 56:17
  And then lifestyle.
• 56:18
  Would you say that you live a better lifestyle here
• 56:21
  than kind of?
• 56:22
  Are they equal?
• 56:23
  So by lifestyle, can you be more specific?
• 56:26
  Things I do your way of life.
• 56:29
  My way of life is more conducive to Jamaica.
• 56:32
  Okay.
• 56:33
  So while I may have more access to museums,
• 56:36
  structured parks for my children that are not old and questionable.
• 56:40
  Yeah.
• 56:41
  So there's things.
• 56:42
  There's infrastructure that might be more comfortable.
• 56:46
  Sure.
• 56:47
  And I think my life style and I think my frequency
• 56:50
  drives much better in this island.
• 56:52
  Because people are nicer.
• 56:54
  Jamaicans are human.
• 56:55
  Right.
• 56:56
  And I use this and I'm so sorry to use this example
• 57:00
  because it's really silly.
• 57:01
  But I find it to be very accurate.
• 57:03
  Sure.
• 57:04
  If you start in front of a Jamaican, they don't judge you.
• 57:07
  Right.
• 57:08
  And it's silly.
• 57:09
  Because the Jamaican knows everyone parts.
• 57:12
  And maybe it's like this.
• 57:14
  If you are with people and you happen to fart in Canada,
• 57:17
  they look at you like you don't fart.
• 57:19
  Sure.
• 57:20
  People don't fart.
• 57:21
  And it's a really silly example.
• 57:24
  But there's some level of humanity and community here.
• 57:27
  That is very beautiful.
• 57:29
  And did you know that in that little trip to Kingston,
• 57:32
  did you already feel that or was that something you've learned
• 57:34
  over time being here?
• 57:35
  The humanity I think I saw when we drove across the island.
• 57:39
  Okay.
• 57:40
  And my son was car sick and we stopped by the side of the road
• 57:42
  in Germany.
• 57:43
  And my son's just puking on the end of someone's driveway
• 57:47
  and they had come out to get water out of a well.
• 57:50
  And this mom looks up at me and she was just a mom.
• 57:53
  And she looked at me and I was like, you all right?
• 57:55
  And I'm like, we're all right.
• 57:56
  And she went back and doing what she was.
• 57:58
  And yeah, no, I get goosebumps.
• 58:00
  Because that moment in at least North America
• 58:02
  would have been...
• 58:03
  Get off my fucking lawn!
• 58:04
  Okay.
• 58:05
  What the hell are you doing?
• 58:06
  You're kids puking on my lawn!
• 58:07
  It would have been a completely different introduction.
• 58:09
  And it was, you're all right?
• 58:11
  All right.
• 58:12
  It was really cool.
• 58:13
  So for me, and I'm very hired, it's very nice.
• 58:17
  That, like, looking out for each other thing
• 58:20
  is something I miss the most.
• 58:21
  So I even get on the plane here with my twins.
• 58:23
  And the lady beside us automatically put to my seatbelt on.
• 58:26
  I think I've never met this woman.
• 58:28
  I don't know her.
• 58:29
  She didn't even look up.
• 58:30
  Asked if I needed anything.
• 58:31
  She automatically just went into anti-mode.
• 58:33
  And I text my family.
• 58:34
  I was like, I'm on a plane to Jamaica.
• 58:36
  Like, that's it.
• 58:37
  We've already got there.
• 58:38
  Jamaica.
• 58:39
  Made my kids, I think, the level of humanity deeper.
• 58:44
  I think it also made them cooler.
• 58:45
  Because Jamaicans tend to be just naturally very warm.
• 58:48
  Like, I'm kind of awkward and stuff.
• 58:50
  Jamaicans are cool, man.
• 58:52
  Did you have any concerns in terms of education and bringing your kids, you know,
• 58:56
  as a parent, you think, where are your children going to thrive?
• 58:59
  When you were deciding to come to Jamaica,
• 59:01
  were you concerned that perhaps it might not be the best environment for them?
• 59:04
  So while I really didn't look at the high schools,
• 59:06
  I found good elementary schools.
• 59:08
  So it seemed to be from a broad, good elementary schools.
• 59:11
  There are international schools and schools that do like IB programs.
• 59:15
  But I was moving to Jamaica.
• 59:17
  I was not coming to Jamaica, you know, on a contract and everything.
• 59:20
  And I think my husband and I both agreed that was important for them to understand Jamaica.
• 59:24
  And you felt that if they went to an international school, they'd been a bubble.
• 59:28
  Well, first of all, they wanted to charge me a lot more money than I was going to be.
• 59:31
  And so I was on the phone with the lady.
• 59:33
  And I was like, well, that's too much money.
• 59:35
  And she kept talking.
• 59:36
  And I was like, I don't want to waste your time.
• 59:38
  Because my kids are not coming to your school.
• 59:42
  But so when he had come in October, he went to a few schools.
• 59:45
  And he really liked Monoprop.
• 59:47
  Okay. And it was close to where we, the house he found.
• 59:49
  But so we just tested them and assessed them at Monoprop.
• 59:53
  And I think that decision is really interesting from the perspective that most white people
• 59:57
  that come from foreign, that come to Jamaica,
• 1:00:00
  their children are going to the American school or they're going to Hillel.
• 1:00:03
  And I guess I'm interested where you concern that your children would feel like they're left out.
• 1:00:10
  Or would they be ostracized or any negativity towards the fact that they were coming from Canada to Jamaica.
• 1:00:16
  And as you put it like to experience a certain version of Jamaica.
• 1:00:21
  I think if we had been moving to a country that spoke only English and didn't have a second language.
• 1:00:28
  Oh, okay.
• 1:00:29
  That's why.
• 1:00:30
  Yeah.
• 1:00:31
  It would be different because they could have assimilated even easily through language.
• 1:00:33
  Sure.
• 1:00:34
  But Jamaica has a distinctive language.
• 1:00:36
  Okay.
• 1:00:37
  And while it's not taught in a curriculum or formally in school, it is very much an entire language.
• 1:00:42
  Yeah.
• 1:00:43
  And I don't think you can live and find a community if you don't at least attempt to learn this language.
• 1:00:54
  And being put into a school where you have Jamaicans who read and write English at an exceptionally high level,
• 1:01:01
  like I'm not, but who in school yard are going to speak like they do when they're playing with their cousins.
• 1:01:07
  Sure.
• 1:01:08
  It's not like, okay, I go to one of the other schools and I'm the only Jamaican here.
• 1:01:12
  So I'm always speaking English with everyone because, well, you're from this country.
• 1:01:16
  You don't even speak English yet.
• 1:01:19
  So, and I think they were able to make better friends because there's no turnover of students.
• 1:01:24
  But from abroad.
• 1:01:25
  Right.
• 1:01:26
  It's not like making your dad's here for a year and then you get placements where or your diplomat and you get placements.
• 1:01:30
  So you get to make, I think, better friendships.
• 1:01:32
  Okay.
• 1:01:33
  But in terms of school, you might be surprised to find out that my son was homeschooled for a few years.
• 1:01:40
  Okay.
• 1:01:41
  And then it was time for him to go to high school.
• 1:01:43
  Right.
• 1:01:44
  And because he hadn't done PEP, which is the new GSAT, which is great.
• 1:01:46
  I didn't know.
• 1:01:47
  No, I feel old.
• 1:01:48
  So for people who don't know in grade six in Jamaica, you do testing and then the government puts you in school.
• 1:01:54
  So no longer GSAT.
• 1:01:55
  It's PEP now.
• 1:01:56
  Okay.
• 1:01:57
  And it's starting grade three at grade four and it's really stressful for three years instead of one.
• 1:02:00
  Okay.
• 1:02:01
  But so my son went to hell for a term.
• 1:02:04
  Right.
• 1:02:05
  And it was not a school for us.
• 1:02:07
  Really?
• 1:02:08
  Why?
• 1:02:09
  Especially considering I went there.
• 1:02:11
  Why?
• 1:02:12
  Well, I think it has changed a lot.
• 1:02:13
  Yeah.
• 1:02:14
  And I think, for me, what shocked me is my son did no work in science class.
• 1:02:20
  And then I got an email asking if you'd like to make up a science class assignment to which I ignored the email.
• 1:02:30
  But my son still got a 40 percent.
• 1:02:33
  But he did zero work.
• 1:02:36
  And I don't understand.
• 1:02:38
  Did we ever find out?
• 1:02:39
  Because if you go to work and I go to work and I do zero work, then you get zero things.
• 1:02:43
  I don't get 40.
• 1:02:44
  Right.
• 1:02:45
  And so they had a lacrosse team and they didn't have a lacrosse team and he really loved playing lacrosse.
• 1:02:53
  Okay.
• 1:02:54
  So we switched into Kingston College.
• 1:02:55
  Casey had a lacrosse team?
• 1:02:56
  Yes.
• 1:02:57
  Oh.
• 1:02:58
  So does George's?
• 1:02:59
  Okay.
• 1:03:00
  So does Calabar?
• 1:03:02
  So does St. Hughes, the girl's school?
• 1:03:06
  Okay.
• 1:03:07
  So to both Wilmer schools?
• 1:03:08
  Okay.
• 1:03:09
  Yeah.
• 1:03:10
  And why did you choose Casey?
• 1:03:11
  Well, he was being trained by the football trainer.
• 1:03:15
  And so we had reached out to him to see if we could be put into contact with the lacrosse coach.
• 1:03:19
  Okay.
• 1:03:20
  To see if he could just train with them because there was nothing going on at all.
• 1:03:23
  And the coach was like, as long as there's no team, you know, I don't see why not.
• 1:03:27
  Sure.
• 1:03:28
  And then they stepped on him.
• 1:03:30
  He was young.
• 1:03:31
  He was some little schmuck they didn't know who he was and they really put him to the ringer.
• 1:03:34
  Oh really?
• 1:03:35
  And they accepted him.
• 1:03:36
  Like he earned his place on that team, right?
• 1:03:38
  And he wanted to go to Casey.
• 1:03:39
  Okay.
• 1:03:40
  So for the January term, we applied for Kingston College and they accepted him.
• 1:03:45
  And it was a culture shock from my son.
• 1:03:49
  So your son at this point, he's been homeschooled?
• 1:03:52
  Well, he went to school a little bit in Canada.
• 1:03:54
  Yep.
• 1:03:55
  Then he went to Monoprop for a time.
• 1:03:56
  Right.
• 1:03:57
  Then a little bit of creative kids.
• 1:03:58
  Right.
• 1:03:59
  And then through COVID, I homeschooled him.
• 1:04:00
  Home schooled.
• 1:04:01
  And then we do a little bit of low.
• 1:04:02
  And then we get to Casey.
• 1:04:03
  Yeah.
• 1:04:04
  And that becomes a culture shock.
• 1:04:05
  Well, he was the only white boy for 2000 black boys.
• 1:04:08
  Okay.
• 1:04:09
  There was one albino kid he told me.
• 1:04:11
  Which is not white boys.
• 1:04:12
  No, okay.
• 1:04:13
  No.
• 1:04:14
  And they beat him every single day.
• 1:04:16
  Physically.
• 1:04:17
  They beat him.
• 1:04:18
  But my son.
• 1:04:19
  Really?
• 1:04:20
  It's not.
• 1:04:21
  And he fought back.
• 1:04:22
  And made his friends.
• 1:04:23
  But they beat him every single day.
• 1:04:25
  How long did he stay at Casey?
• 1:04:27
  For two years.
• 1:04:28
  Getting beaten?
• 1:04:29
  No, no, no.
• 1:04:30
  No.
• 1:04:31
  Like he had friends on the cross teams.
• 1:04:33
  Okay.
• 1:04:34
  Then like one day the lacrosse kid showed up and was like,
• 1:04:36
  Who said they're going to box back on?
• 1:04:37
  And some kids like, not me, but I'm going to box back him.
• 1:04:39
  And that kid just boxed that.
• 1:04:40
  So the lacrosse kid just, he was a six-former.
• 1:04:43
  Just boxed that kid.
• 1:04:44
  And you got a little better.
• 1:04:45
  And then he made friends.
• 1:04:46
  And he would get a lot better.
• 1:04:47
  Okay.
• 1:04:48
  So then he'd at least have his group of friends.
• 1:04:50
  Right.
• 1:04:51
  And then so it was more regular bullying.
• 1:04:52
  It wasn't just targeted.
• 1:04:54
  Yeah.
• 1:04:55
  Okay.
• 1:04:56
  But he didn't finish at Casey.
• 1:04:57
  No, I sent him because his grades were not very good.
• 1:05:01
  Okay.
• 1:05:02
  I sent him to school in Canada.
• 1:05:03
  Okay.
• 1:05:04
  And so he's that kind of enough in the children's school.
• 1:05:06
  School in school.
• 1:05:07
  Okay, cool.
• 1:05:08
  And is he happy about the decisions going to be going to school?
• 1:05:11
  I think he appreciates the easier, it's easier for him to learn because he's not used to being in a class with 40 kids.
• 1:05:22
  Okay.
• 1:05:23
  And it was difficult.
• 1:05:24
  So you can succeed at Casey.
• 1:05:25
  But he doesn't have the focus.
• 1:05:27
  It was hard for him.
• 1:05:28
  Sure.
• 1:05:29
  So I think academically he made on a roll.
• 1:05:32
  So I think he's doing today's his birthday.
• 1:05:35
  Oh, really?
• 1:05:37
  So I think he's doing very well.
• 1:05:39
  Sure.
• 1:05:40
  They canceled his lacrosse season.
• 1:05:42
  So I switched him to another school.
• 1:05:44
  Okay.
• 1:05:45
  Because that wasn't nice.
• 1:05:46
  Right.
• 1:05:47
  And he was there to play lacrosse.
• 1:05:48
  Right.
• 1:05:49
  But I think he's happy to be there.
• 1:05:52
  But he really misses his friends at Casey.
• 1:05:55
  Really?
• 1:05:56
  And when he comes home, he still sees them.
• 1:05:57
  He still goes to lacrosse practice.
• 1:05:58
  He still went to the finals.
• 1:05:59
  And he's still in the picture with the lacrosse team.
• 1:06:01
  It's true.
• 1:06:02
  And he tries to carry back equipment to get to the team.
• 1:06:05
  That's really sweet.
• 1:06:06
  Yeah.
• 1:06:07
  Do you think he feels Jamaican?
• 1:06:08
  Or do you think he identifies as Canadian?
• 1:06:11
  I know you can't speak for him, but I'm interested.
• 1:06:13
  And he's not here.
• 1:06:14
  I don't think you remember as much about Canada at all.
• 1:06:16
  Oh, really?
• 1:06:17
  Yes.
• 1:06:18
  And after Casey, his password really solidified his password.
• 1:06:22
  I feel like his password is much better than mine.
• 1:06:24
  Wow.
• 1:06:25
  If you close your eyes, I don't know if you'd guess he wasn't born here.
• 1:06:28
  Oh, really?
• 1:06:29
  Well, really, sometimes he'll come out with things at the bakery
• 1:06:32
  and the staff are just like shocked at what has come out of his mouth.
• 1:06:36
  And I'm like, can you, what does that mean?
• 1:06:38
  No, because I like his expressions.
• 1:06:40
  I've never even heard of it.
• 1:06:42
  Right.
• 1:06:43
  So I would think Jamaican, OK.
• 1:06:45
  But at least now he's living in Canada a little bit.
• 1:06:47
  So maybe a little bit more.
• 1:06:49
  He loves hockey.
• 1:06:50
  OK.
• 1:06:51
  So he's really identifying with that ice hockey.
• 1:06:53
  Yes, culture.
• 1:06:54
  Culture.
• 1:06:55
  Yes.
• 1:06:56
  That's really interesting.
• 1:06:57
  And you're a littleist.
• 1:06:58
  Yeah, my wash belly.
• 1:06:59
  Your wash belly is born here.
• 1:07:01
  You know, wash belly is the last baby after a break.
• 1:07:04
  Yeah.
• 1:07:05
  And so she's born here.
• 1:07:07
  She goes to Mona.
• 1:07:09
  I know she's only seven.
• 1:07:10
  So I tried an alternative school.
• 1:07:12
  OK.
• 1:07:13
  What's an alternative school?
• 1:07:14
  I'm one that spends a lot of time outside.
• 1:07:16
  OK.
• 1:07:17
  One that has less homework.
• 1:07:18
  Right.
• 1:07:19
  More like hippy-dippy.
• 1:07:20
  Right.
• 1:07:21
  Because Mona's great.
• 1:07:22
  But Mona's intense.
• 1:07:23
  From day one.
• 1:07:24
  OK.
• 1:07:25
  She's like, you know, like she's four.
• 1:07:27
  And I don't even send my kids to school usually when they're four.
• 1:07:29
  But all the other kids are at school.
• 1:07:30
  So there's going to play with you.
• 1:07:31
  So I was like, OK, I'm going to send her school.
• 1:07:34
  And I found the school so nice, hippy-dippy.
• 1:07:37
  Yay.
• 1:07:38
  And it was great for like preschool.
• 1:07:40
  Right.
• 1:07:41
  But once we got to elementary school, it lacked.
• 1:07:45
  And it was not well developed.
• 1:07:46
  OK.
• 1:07:47
  I think the program should stay at a preschool level.
• 1:07:50
  Yeah.
• 1:07:51
  Because it's really wonderful to preschool level.
• 1:07:53
  And then it just doesn't step up.
• 1:07:54
  And so my daughter was actually.
• 1:07:56
  Her teacher was quite a bully.
• 1:07:58
  Oh, worse than my son was bullied.
• 1:08:00
  Because the teachers were never a bully to my son.
• 1:08:02
  Sure.
• 1:08:03
  It was other students.
• 1:08:04
  But this teacher in my daughter's class would say things.
• 1:08:06
  And there was only four kids in the class.
• 1:08:08
  OK.
• 1:08:09
  Say things like ignore Tessa today.
• 1:08:12
  And I couldn't understand why.
• 1:08:14
  And then my daughter started rolling on the floor and screaming at school.
• 1:08:16
  It behaved right and never seen.
• 1:08:18
  And then one day when she told me that we were in the car.
• 1:08:21
  And I was like, we switched locations.
• 1:08:23
  You know, the preschool is so great.
• 1:08:25
  I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt.
• 1:08:27
  And really, the principal just didn't want to hear me.
• 1:08:31
  And quit blaming my child.
• 1:08:33
  And when I switched to Ramona that has so much more work.
• 1:08:36
  Sure.
• 1:08:37
  There were no behavioral issues.
• 1:08:38
  OK.
• 1:08:39
  So it's clearly her environment.
• 1:08:41
  Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  So I love Mona.
• 1:08:44
  And the new principal has brought down the class sizes.
• 1:08:49
  She's expanded the terrain.
• 1:08:55
  It expanded the one?
• 1:08:56
  The terrain.
• 1:08:57
  What's this called?
• 1:08:58
  It's the plate.
• 1:09:00
  No.
• 1:09:01
  Not just the whole campus.
• 1:09:04
  It's a teche.
• 1:09:05
  A teche.
• 1:09:06
  Like the law.
• 1:09:07
  So she's expanded the campus.
• 1:09:12
  She's brought down the class size.
• 1:09:14
  OK.
• 1:09:15
  It's really great.
• 1:09:17
  So she's thriving now.
• 1:09:18
  Super happy.
• 1:09:19
  I'm super, super happy.
• 1:09:20
  I know it's too soon for high school chat for her.
• 1:09:23
  But what do you think can happen?
• 1:09:24
  So my daughters that went to high school here got pulled out during COVID.
• 1:09:31
  But really like the school they were at.
• 1:09:33
  OK.
• 1:09:34
  It was a campaign.
• 1:09:35
  It's very, very high performing.
• 1:09:36
  I went to campus.
• 1:09:37
  It's very, very difficult to get into.
• 1:09:39
  It's difficult to maintain good grades.
• 1:09:41
  They placed kids in Ivy League left in the center.
• 1:09:43
  The reason I went to campus was because I was told it was the best school in Jamaica.
• 1:09:46
  The results just came in and they beat Immaculate.
• 1:09:49
  Don't they always know?
• 1:09:51
  I think so.
• 1:09:52
  It's always changing.
• 1:09:53
  It's like Casey and Calibar at Champs.
• 1:09:55
  Casey always wins.
• 1:09:56
  I don't worry about that.
• 1:09:57
  They don't always win.
• 1:09:58
  My cousin is from Calibar.
• 1:09:59
  You can't say that out loud.
• 1:10:00
  Fortis.
• 1:10:01
  I'll give you the first time I turn up to Champs.
• 1:10:03
  I'm wearing head to toe purple.
• 1:10:04
  Oh, good.
• 1:10:05
  Like head to toe.
• 1:10:06
  Not thinking.
• 1:10:07
  I think I look cute.
• 1:10:08
  I'm calling this like a bag of purple cousin to sound you.
• 1:10:10
  No, but I'm not joking.
• 1:10:11
  I get to him.
• 1:10:12
  All like smiley smiley.
• 1:10:14
  And the whole crew just looked at me.
• 1:10:17
  Where ya go?
• 1:10:18
  I was like.
• 1:10:19
  Sorry?
• 1:10:20
  And it didn't even occur to me until the men all took their t-shirts off.
• 1:10:24
  I was like, pick one.
• 1:10:25
  Just dashing them at me.
• 1:10:26
  Pick one.
• 1:10:27
  I was like, oh.
• 1:10:28
  Oh no, it's shit.
• 1:10:29
  Champs, serious.
• 1:10:30
  My cousin who is married to him.
• 1:10:32
  We were going to wear purple for the bridesmaid dresses.
• 1:10:35
  We were in forest green for your wedding.
• 1:10:39
  It's so deep.
• 1:10:41
  It is deep.
• 1:10:42
  Like our whole family bleeds purple.
• 1:10:43
  Really?
• 1:10:44
  My son bought me for Valentine's Day purple spandex.
• 1:10:47
  No.
• 1:10:48
  Like leggings with a matching purple.
• 1:10:50
  Like it's just purple, like bright purple.
• 1:10:53
  Oh my god.
• 1:10:54
  But at Mona, we're in purple house.
• 1:10:55
  So I have the sickest purple outfit to wear.
• 1:10:58
  So you're ready.
• 1:10:59
  Oh my god.
• 1:11:00
  Yeah.
• 1:11:01
  Yeah, the color flex is real.
• 1:11:02
  The people running the equipment during this interview.
• 1:11:06
  Uh-huh.
• 1:11:07
  Don't like Casey so much that every time we say purple,
• 1:11:10
  they are nodding.
• 1:11:11
  That's how deep it goes.
• 1:11:13
  We should turn the camera.
• 1:11:16
  I didn't know they were having many hearts at times.
• 1:11:19
  Are you a JC boy?
• 1:11:21
  Oh no.
• 1:11:22
  He doesn't do blue ladies and gentlemen.
• 1:11:24
  Calibar?
• 1:11:25
  Worldlers.
• 1:11:26
  Georgians.
• 1:11:27
  Oh, Georgians.
• 1:11:28
  My principal at hit element to Georgians.
• 1:11:30
  Or he was a principal at Georgians too.
• 1:11:32
  Where do you support?
• 1:11:33
  I'm fine.
• 1:11:34
  What's your color?
• 1:11:36
  John?
• 1:11:37
  3.
• 1:11:38
  Calibar.
• 1:11:39
  Hydelle.
• 1:11:40
  Oh, Excel.
• 1:11:41
  You don't count.
• 1:11:42
  Excel sure also has a lacrosse team.
• 1:11:43
  Oh, really?
• 1:11:44
  I never knew lacrosse was a big thing.
• 1:11:45
  It's been about 10 years or five years?
• 1:11:47
  I don't know.
• 1:11:48
  Okay.
• 1:11:49
  Six years.
• 1:11:50
  Oh man.
• 1:11:51
  That may be enough.
• 1:11:52
  But Casey wins like almost every year.
• 1:11:53
  Except that one time, Georgians won.
• 1:11:55
  But Casey won this year.
• 1:11:57
  So I still see that you're alliance.
• 1:11:58
  It's alliance.
• 1:11:59
  Oh yeah, we love.
• 1:12:00
  Casey's a really cool place.
• 1:12:01
  Staying still really good values in the boys.
• 1:12:02
  Okay.
• 1:12:03
  Culturally, I think my son learned a lot.
• 1:12:05
  It helped him grow.
• 1:12:06
  I only have lovely, lovely things to say.
• 1:12:08
  Just academically.
• 1:12:09
  Sure.
• 1:12:10
  It was not a place that he was going to be able to do well at all.
• 1:12:14
  Like his average was like a 67.
• 1:12:16
  Okay.
• 1:12:17
  It was really bad.
• 1:12:18
  And now he's going to be able to do well at all.
• 1:12:21
  Like his average was like a 67.
• 1:12:25
  Okay.
• 1:12:26
  That was really bad.
• 1:12:27
  And my husband made a joke because he got a 29% on something.
• 1:12:31
  And my husband said, you should be able to mix up expiration dates with your marks.
• 1:12:35
  But in a different environment, he made honor roll.
• 1:12:38
  That's crazy, right?
• 1:12:39
  And when I switched him schools, his grades were so good in the same sentence.
• 1:12:44
  They wrote, do to Beckham's academic excellence, he doesn't need to take the testing.
• 1:12:49
  And I was like, I almost grew my eye.
• 1:12:51
  I was like, that's crazy.
• 1:12:55
  That's super proud of him.
• 1:12:57
  Super proud of him.
• 1:12:58
  Do you think you're closer to your son?
• 1:13:00
  No, I think I miss him more because he's at points.
• 1:13:03
  Okay.
• 1:13:04
  Like I don't think I'm closer to them.
• 1:13:06
  I always tell them I love whoever's causing the least trouble at this time.
• 1:13:09
  At the time.
• 1:13:10
  That's what I love the most.
• 1:13:12
  Oh, that's really sweet.
• 1:13:13
  I'm my dad's favorite.
• 1:13:14
  Oh, all the time.
• 1:13:15
  Are you the baby?
• 1:13:16
  Yeah, but I'm also, I'm the most like him.
• 1:13:19
  I've also lived with him more than my siblings.
• 1:13:22
  But my way of thinking is heavily, heavily influenced by my dad.
• 1:13:26
  I learnt, like, as you get to adulthood, that being the favorite, when you're younger,
• 1:13:32
  what feels like you're being challenged the most and feels most unfair,
• 1:13:36
  is symptomatic of being the favorite, if that makes sense.
• 1:13:38
  Like the expectations are higher.
• 1:13:40
  Or higher.
• 1:13:41
  Which at the time, it just felt like you're being unfair.
• 1:13:43
  Which are siblings, say that they're the favorite?
• 1:13:45
  No, everybody knows I'm the favorite.
• 1:13:46
  As in everybody, people that work with him, people that are his customers,
• 1:13:50
  it is public knowledge that I'm the favorite.
• 1:13:53
  I think one kid might say they think the other one's the favorite.
• 1:13:56
  I used to think my sister was the favorite.
• 1:13:58
  But yeah.
• 1:14:00
  At any moment, there's one that's helping you more than the other.
• 1:14:03
  The life is busy, so you may have a moment now.
• 1:14:05
  And the next week, you're in another moment.
• 1:14:07
  Sure.
• 1:14:08
  So I think it's too fluid to say that.
• 1:14:10
  And I like them all very, very much.
• 1:14:12
  So when you decided that you're coming to Jamaica and you have your friends in Canada
• 1:14:16
  and you tell them this is what I'm doing, what is the reaction?
• 1:14:19
  There's two reactions.
• 1:14:21
  Oh my god, you're moving to Jamaica.
• 1:14:24
  Oh my god, you're doing it.
• 1:14:26
  There's the two reactions.
• 1:14:28
  Very different.
• 1:14:29
  No, it's the people who are scared of life.
• 1:14:31
  And the people are like, oh my god, you're doing it.
• 1:14:33
  But when I talk to my friend now and like the craziness of the world,
• 1:14:36
  she says that so many of her friends back home
• 1:14:38
  are like, have exit strategies to run in places.
• 1:14:41
  Okay.
• 1:14:42
  Because they don't know what the future looks like.
• 1:14:44
  They don't know what the economy looks like.
• 1:14:46
  Okay.
• 1:14:47
  And they don't feel very comfortable.
• 1:14:48
  Have any of your friends visited you here?
• 1:14:50
  Many of my friends have visited me here.
• 1:14:52
  What were their impressions pre-visit versus post-visit?
• 1:14:57
  I don't think they expected to be as developed as it was.
• 1:15:00
  Okay.
• 1:15:01
  I think they expected more sand bar.
• 1:15:02
  Right.
• 1:15:05
  One of my friends has traveled a lot.
• 1:15:08
  And I think she kind of, she also has a lot of friends in the Caribbean community.
• 1:15:11
  So I think she got kind of what she was expecting.
• 1:15:13
  Yeah.
• 1:15:14
  I had one girl visiting from South Africa.
• 1:15:17
  And this is terrible.
• 1:15:18
  Oh.
• 1:15:19
  But she's not my close friend.
• 1:15:20
  Okay.
• 1:15:21
  You were friends in high school.
• 1:15:22
  Right.
• 1:15:23
  And I was just nice.
• 1:15:24
  I'm a friendly and I was nice to her.
• 1:15:25
  And she said, she made this message on Facebook.
• 1:15:27
  And it was like, you know, it was really nice being able to do something.
• 1:15:31
  And I was like, oh, if you want.
• 1:15:32
  It seemed like she was in a hard place.
• 1:15:33
  So I come to Jamaica.
• 1:15:34
  Jamaica's cream.
• 1:15:35
  You come to Jamaica.
• 1:15:36
  Heels everyone.
• 1:15:37
  Right.
• 1:15:38
  I shouldn't have done that.
• 1:15:39
  Okay.
• 1:15:40
  And my friends told me to stop inviting people to my house after that.
• 1:15:42
  What did she do?
• 1:15:43
  She sat at my bakery with another white Jamaican
• 1:15:45
  and talked about reverse racism.
• 1:15:47
  While my big black American friend was like, please tell me more.
• 1:15:53
  He couldn't understand what these two absolute white women were talking about.
• 1:15:58
  And that was kind of appalling for me because they have the misconception for that
• 1:16:05
  because you have to wait at a government office.
• 1:16:08
  You are being targeted.
• 1:16:10
  Okay.
• 1:16:11
  She was saying government workers and a lower class workers would target them
• 1:16:16
  because they're white.
• 1:16:17
  But so they started talking about reverse racism.
• 1:16:20
  I'd say that was probably the most type uncomfortable.
• 1:16:23
  The friend that you went to high school with.
• 1:16:24
  It's in South Africa.
• 1:16:25
  Oh.
• 1:16:26
  She was only in Montreal.
• 1:16:28
  Oh.
• 1:16:29
  She was only in Montreal like her high school years.
• 1:16:31
  So she's South Africa.
• 1:16:32
  Yes.
• 1:16:33
  Okay.
• 1:16:34
  And it was very weird for me because as a white person, I have not encountered that.
• 1:16:38
  And where I've gone probably because it doesn't exist.
• 1:16:40
  Oh, okay.
• 1:16:41
  I didn't think it did because it's not something that was on my radar.
• 1:16:44
  So I'm sorry.
• 1:16:45
  I heard these white bitches.
• 1:16:47
  I was shocked.
• 1:16:48
  I was embarrassed.
• 1:16:49
  Right.
• 1:16:50
  Like the man that he was, my friend was meeting with this woman.
• 1:16:53
  And then I was there.
• 1:16:54
  And he, I think, was angry.
• 1:16:56
  Okay.
• 1:16:57
  Because he's a big black man from America.
• 1:16:58
  Right.
• 1:16:59
  And I can only imagine the types of racism she has encountered in his life.
• 1:17:03
  Right.
• 1:17:04
  You know, mid fifties.
• 1:17:05
  Right.
• 1:17:06
  And I'm just embarrassed because you're with me.
• 1:17:08
  Right.
• 1:17:09
  And I was just like, it's time for you to go home.
• 1:17:10
  It's going home.
• 1:17:11
  It's going home.
• 1:17:12
  And that's when he was like, you need to stop letting people stay at your house.
• 1:17:15
  Wow.
• 1:17:16
  But otherwise, otherwise my friends are lovely.
• 1:17:19
  And they had good impressions.
• 1:17:21
  Some of my friends are scared to come.
• 1:17:23
  Okay.
• 1:17:24
  I think because of what you see on the news.
• 1:17:25
  Right.
• 1:17:26
  And I find it ridiculous because they go to Florida.
• 1:17:28
  Right.
• 1:17:29
  And Jamaica doesn't have any Florida men.
• 1:17:31
  What does that mean?
• 1:17:33
  You know.
• 1:17:34
  Okay.
• 1:17:35
  Take any date.
• 1:17:36
  Right.
• 1:17:37
  And add Florida men to it.
• 1:17:38
  Right.
• 1:17:39
  So June 10th.
• 1:17:40
  But 2024.
• 1:17:41
  Florida men.
• 1:17:42
  And it always starts.
• 1:17:43
  Florida men does something crazy.
• 1:17:45
  Like, sales with alligator and gets beaten.
• 1:17:48
  Right.
• 1:17:49
  So you have this thing.
• 1:17:50
  So like, you go to the States.
• 1:17:52
  Crazy things happen in the States.
• 1:17:53
  I never had to send my kids to school and fear that they'd be shot in Jamaica.
• 1:17:56
  Sure.
• 1:17:57
  There's no fear of school shooting.
• 1:17:59
  So there's a lot of respect for children.
• 1:18:02
  Like, don't get me wrong.
• 1:18:03
  Everywhere has horror stories.
• 1:18:04
  But that's not the average.
• 1:18:05
  That's not the norm.
• 1:18:07
  So people who are willing to visit the States.
• 1:18:09
  They still wouldn't be willing to come.
• 1:18:11
  And to me, I'm much more worried going to the States.
• 1:18:14
  We have coronation market.
• 1:18:16
  People are, you know, on edge about coronation market.
• 1:18:21
  So yeah, sometimes bad things happen at coronation market.
• 1:18:24
  There are sometimes shootings at coronation market.
• 1:18:26
  Sure.
• 1:18:27
  But I've gone every Thursday for years.
• 1:18:30
  You go to a coronation market.
• 1:18:31
  I can go together.
• 1:18:32
  Check you out, please.
• 1:18:33
  And it's a beautiful place.
• 1:18:35
  It's probably one of my favorite places in Jamaica because it's so human.
• 1:18:38
  Right.
• 1:18:39
  Back to that sense of humanity.
• 1:18:40
  You can stand there and just see humanity.
• 1:18:44
  To me, it almost had its core.
• 1:18:45
  No one's pretending.
• 1:18:46
  Are they still giving you foreign prices at coronation market?
• 1:18:49
  No, they know me.
• 1:18:50
  We were past that.
• 1:18:51
  We passed it.
• 1:18:52
  Unless it's new vendors.
• 1:18:54
  Past that.
• 1:18:55
  And my husband's always been very good at negotiating.
• 1:18:57
  So he never accepted those prices.
• 1:18:59
  So that's funny.
• 1:19:00
  But it's also funny to me when people, I don't know about you,
• 1:19:03
  but people go to foreign countries and they get upset.
• 1:19:07
  If someone asks for more money, then you would have a local.
• 1:19:10
  And I always say, but you have the choice.
• 1:19:13
  Why would that make you angry?
• 1:19:15
  And you compare what you think is reasonable.
• 1:19:17
  Or you choose to walk away.
• 1:19:18
  But I've spoken to people.
• 1:19:19
  And they take real, like, umbridge to this idea that they've been charged more.
• 1:19:23
  We were in South Africa and you go to Boulder Beach where the penguins are.
• 1:19:29
  And they have a foreign price.
• 1:19:31
  And they have a local price.
• 1:19:32
  And there are certain other African countries that are in the local price.
• 1:19:36
  And to me, I don't see an issue with that, right?
• 1:19:39
  No, I don't either.
• 1:19:40
  In Jamaica, if you go to the park, so the big tourist places.
• 1:19:43
  So you always have a local price.
• 1:19:44
  Yeah.
• 1:19:45
  Yeah, I think people just sometimes look for things to be angry about.
• 1:19:49
  Carons are going to carry on.
• 1:19:51
  Do you feel like Jamaica is home?
• 1:19:53
  Absolutely.
• 1:19:54
  Will it always be?
• 1:19:55
  Yes.
• 1:19:56
  I can never leave this island for the rest of my life and I'll die happy.
• 1:19:59
  Really?
• 1:20:00
  Why?
• 1:20:01
  What more can I want?
• 1:20:03
  How does this island not fulfill every need and practically every want I have,
• 1:20:07
  other than maple syrup?
• 1:20:09
  Imported.
• 1:20:10
  Things come.
• 1:20:11
  We have boats and planes.
• 1:20:13
  What do you think it's the thing about, you've clearly travelled other places.
• 1:20:17
  But what is it about Jamaica that makes it the place that you want to call home?
• 1:20:21
  I think I have found the best friendships in Jamaica.
• 1:20:23
  Really?
• 1:20:24
  Absolutely.
• 1:20:25
  Miss out on the unity between black women.
• 1:20:28
  And it's something I've had the privilege of being included in.
• 1:20:33
  I got into a car accident and the woman prayed for me.
• 1:20:37
  This doesn't happen anywhere else.
• 1:20:39
  Sure.
• 1:20:40
  It was my fault.
• 1:20:41
  I would stop sign.
• 1:20:42
  Okay.
• 1:20:43
  And it wasn't a big, I just bumped her bumper.
• 1:20:44
  Sure.
• 1:20:45
  It was my fault.
• 1:20:46
  Right.
• 1:20:47
  Because I was driving somewhere I wasn't used to.
• 1:20:48
  Sure.
• 1:20:49
  And it goes straight.
• 1:20:50
  You think I'd have the right away now.
• 1:20:51
  Right.
• 1:20:52
  But the curvy road has the right away.
• 1:20:53
  Like I didn't know.
• 1:20:54
  Sure.
• 1:20:55
  And if I...
• 1:20:56
  One centimeter ahead and I wouldn't have bumped her car.
• 1:20:58
  Sure.
• 1:20:59
  But I did.
• 1:21:00
  And this woman came out and prayed for me.
• 1:21:01
  The sense of community, the amount of love that is given.
• 1:21:06
  I've not seen anywhere.
• 1:21:07
  I've seen wonderful things in other places.
• 1:21:10
  But I think Jamaica vibrates at a very special and very high frequency.
• 1:21:17
  And if you just give a little bit of thanks, take a step back and vibe with the island.
• 1:21:23
  It gives you everything you could ever possibly imagine and want.
• 1:21:26
  So there's no point in your journey that you reconsidered that move.
• 1:21:31
  Do you think that everyone, like I always say, a bit like Jamaican culture in a sense that we kind of live on the extremes?
• 1:21:40
  You know, when we're super positive, we're super positive, when we really don't like something, we really don't like something.
• 1:21:44
  We don't do middle ground.
• 1:21:46
  I always say that Jamaica is not for everyone.
• 1:21:48
  It is not being at the bakery and seeing people come in.
• 1:21:51
  You see people that can't adjust to this way of life.
• 1:21:54
  Again, so frustrated with something as simple as putting a container.
• 1:21:58
  I've seen a Canadian man who came here with his Vietnamese wife.
• 1:22:03
  Lose his shit.
• 1:22:05
  He left videos warning expats never to come to Jamaica before he boarded the plane on TikTok.
• 1:22:11
  Why?
• 1:22:12
  Because it ruined him.
• 1:22:14
  In what way?
• 1:22:15
  It's really hard to quantify and put into words.
• 1:22:18
  Sure.
• 1:22:19
  It's you come here and you're used to doing things, let's say, at this beat.
• 1:22:26
  Right.
• 1:22:27
  You can go a little faster.
• 1:22:29
  Sure. You can go a little slower.
• 1:22:31
  But your whole life, you and your nervous system has always worked between this, whatever this is, moves a little bit.
• 1:22:38
  But when things work like this, and you're taking these roads and this is our destination.
• 1:22:46
  You're used to always, you're coming here.
• 1:22:49
  But in Jamaica, you're going to go here.
• 1:22:51
  Right.
• 1:22:52
  It's going to take time.
• 1:22:53
  You're going to do some loops.
• 1:22:54
  But you're going to end up somewhere much greater.
• 1:22:56
  Okay.
• 1:22:57
  You have to have faith and gratitude and the surrender to that.
• 1:23:01
  And it will bring you places that you can't even imagine.
• 1:23:04
  But if you can't, that you die.
• 1:23:08
  And not, like, actually die, but your love of life and all your good aspects that you have to give
• 1:23:15
  are robbed of you because you cannot function like this.
• 1:23:20
  A British woman came.
• 1:23:22
  Then we lasted a couple weeks.
• 1:23:24
  Literally weeks.
• 1:23:25
  Literally weeks.
• 1:23:26
  I saw her husband coming in every day.
• 1:23:28
  She had a job.
• 1:23:29
  And then he was like, well, leaving.
• 1:23:30
  She just, she can't do it.
• 1:23:31
  Oh, wow.
• 1:23:32
  So I've seen, you know, and in between.
• 1:23:34
  So I think that woman and that man from Canada were on the extreme.
• 1:23:37
  Yeah.
• 1:23:38
  No, because the phone and they never come here.
• 1:23:42
  Then you have me being like, okay, bye, we don't want you here.
• 1:23:45
  We good.
• 1:23:47
  Do you feel ownership over like a sense of protection of Jamaican culture?
• 1:23:53
  Or do you always feel like an outsider?
• 1:23:57
  I don't feel like I need to protect Jamaican culture because it's not mine to protect.
• 1:24:01
  Okay.
• 1:24:02
  I feel much more, I feel much stronger about protecting Jamaica's lands.
• 1:24:09
  Okay.
• 1:24:10
  And what does that mean?
• 1:24:11
  That means I don't think we want to find oil in Jamaica.
• 1:24:15
  I think that the box site industry, while I'm sure it does a lot of good things, I'm really
• 1:24:20
  not an economist, so I can't speak it for all the benefits that I might have on that.
• 1:24:24
  And isn't good for the people that live in these communities because there's radioactive chemicals
• 1:24:29
  that are natural in the ground.
• 1:24:32
  And they're not a problem.
• 1:24:34
  But once you start digging them up, they come out.
• 1:24:36
  And I just imagine that there are health problems associated with certain industries.
• 1:24:41
  And I think that our beaches should be our own and they should all be given to hotels.
• 1:24:46
  And there's not a lot of beaches that we can go to.
• 1:24:49
  And I think Jamaicans deserve the beaches.
• 1:24:52
  They're theirs, they're not for the hotels.
• 1:24:54
  Sure.
• 1:24:55
  And I understand tourists are important and this is a whole big thing, but I think there's a compromise
• 1:24:59
  where Jamaicans can still have beaches.
• 1:25:01
  Sure.
• 1:25:02
  And tourists can still have beaches.
• 1:25:03
  Yeah.
• 1:25:04
  So culture, I think I'm happy to be part of the culture and be accepted in the culture,
• 1:25:11
  but I don't think it's mine to defend as it's not mine firsthand.
• 1:25:15
  Cool.
• 1:25:16
  And what if I get it wrong?
• 1:25:17
  Like that girl who's defending, I don't know what.
• 1:25:19
  Like I don't want to be like that.
• 1:25:21
  Sure.
• 1:25:22
  And I guess in my mind, how do you think your life would be different if you had not moved to Jamaica?
• 1:25:29
  Well, I said my kids would be less human and less cool.
• 1:25:32
  Yeah.
• 1:25:33
  That's the way awesome.
• 1:25:34
  But definitely my children would have not found the things that they love, I think as much.
• 1:25:44
  I think they would have ended up in different activities because of what they had access to.
• 1:25:48
  But as in they would have had access to more or one of my daughters is a musician.
• 1:25:53
  And while she may have ended up a musician still in that path, she was pushed into the traveling team for football.
• 1:26:00
  And she was, could it football?
• 1:26:02
  And so it seemed that at that moment her life was going to kind of be very sporting.
• 1:26:06
  Okay.
• 1:26:07
  Which in fact it turned out to be very artsy.
• 1:26:09
  Right.
• 1:26:10
  So they were on certain paths of things that they liked.
• 1:26:13
  Right.
• 1:26:14
  But because those things didn't necessarily, they weren't an option when we moved here.
• 1:26:18
  Sure.
• 1:26:19
  And they found other things which I think they're much more passionate about.
• 1:26:21
  Okay.
• 1:26:22
  So for us it worked.
• 1:26:23
  It can also be the opposite when you move and it could have negative impacts.
• 1:26:26
  Yeah.
• 1:26:27
  But I think we all moved excited for the adventure and ready to embrace more sunny, fun life.
• 1:26:36
  Like less gray and miserable.
• 1:26:38
  And so in Canada we're very polite.
• 1:26:41
  So people will be very polite to you.
• 1:26:43
  But your neighbor really doesn't care about you.
• 1:26:45
  Right.
• 1:26:46
  And it comes back to your child and the woman next to you just helping you with her seatbelt.
• 1:26:51
  Yeah.
• 1:26:52
  You just help people.
• 1:26:53
  Yeah.
• 1:26:54
  And that's really beautiful in Jamaica.
• 1:26:56
  Okay, my quick five questions.
• 1:26:59
  Juicy or tasty patty.
• 1:27:01
  Neither.
• 1:27:02
  You don't have patty zero?
• 1:27:04
  I don't eat patties.
• 1:27:05
  I'm a vegetarian.
• 1:27:06
  There's a Kalaloo patty.
• 1:27:09
  I'm sure someone has an acupathy.
• 1:27:11
  Okay.
• 1:27:12
  So patties for me.
• 1:27:13
  Yeah.
• 1:27:14
  Okay.
• 1:27:15
  Vegan, vegetarian, veganly cafe or something.
• 1:27:18
  And see more of Old Hope Road.
• 1:27:20
  They have good patties.
• 1:27:21
  What?
• 1:27:22
  This woman, does the spot flower crust?
• 1:27:24
  What?
• 1:27:25
  I think those are the patties.
• 1:27:26
  I want to taste one.
• 1:27:27
  Not a really good.
• 1:27:28
  They're really good.
• 1:27:29
  Vegan patties, but really?
• 1:27:30
  No, those are the only ones.
• 1:27:31
  There's a lot of other people that make yates.
• 1:27:32
  I didn't.
• 1:27:33
  What's a yatee?
• 1:27:34
  Bad vegetarian patties.
• 1:27:36
  Or not.
• 1:27:37
  Okay.
• 1:27:38
  So we need to try a good one.
• 1:27:41
  Okay.
• 1:27:42
  Cool.
• 1:27:43
  I'll take your word for it.
• 1:27:44
  I want to jumpkins really good too.
• 1:27:46
  Well, I can't tell you any meat questions.
• 1:27:48
  Because I was at Korgo to our oxil.
• 1:27:50
  But you've had Korgo with an oxil.
• 1:27:52
  I have.
• 1:27:53
  I appreciate it.
• 1:27:54
  You're not trimming it.
• 1:27:55
  No, no.
• 1:27:56
  Did you ever like, do you miss meat?
• 1:27:57
  It's all like random.
• 1:27:58
  No.
• 1:27:59
  You don't miss meat ever.
• 1:28:00
  Do you find being a vegetarian challenging in Jamaica?
• 1:28:05
  Okay.
• 1:28:06
  So when I can cook for myself, no.
• 1:28:08
  Okay.
• 1:28:09
  When I have to go out and eat.
• 1:28:12
  And it's not Indian, it can be very challenging.
• 1:28:15
  Why is it challenging?
• 1:28:17
  Um, chicken's love chicken.
• 1:28:19
  There's chicken in everything.
• 1:28:22
  There.
• 1:28:23
  There's lots of food.
• 1:28:24
  Also, they also love seafood.
• 1:28:25
  So there's a lot of seafood options.
• 1:28:27
  Right.
• 1:28:28
  But I don't need fish or seafood.
• 1:28:29
  Right.
• 1:28:30
  Okay.
• 1:28:31
  So in terms of options and availability.
• 1:28:32
  So if there's a cool eye-tale shop, black river has a great eye-tale shop.
• 1:28:35
  Okay.
• 1:28:36
  Yes.
• 1:28:37
  Cool.
• 1:28:38
  So you have to find specific pockets.
• 1:28:39
  Yes.
• 1:28:40
  Okay.
• 1:28:41
  I won't answer about meat.
• 1:28:42
  I will ask you.
• 1:28:43
  Well, I know the answer now.
• 1:28:44
  Because you said you love coconut water.
• 1:28:45
  But I was going to ask you coconut water or canned juice.
• 1:28:47
  Coconut water.
• 1:28:48
  Yeah.
• 1:28:49
  Every time.
• 1:28:50
  Every time.
• 1:28:51
  And if you want the best Portland jelly.
• 1:28:52
  You go in front of the market.
• 1:28:53
  You find Arlene.
• 1:28:54
  Oh.
• 1:28:55
  She has the best jelly.
• 1:28:56
  Big of Arlene.
• 1:28:57
  Yeah man.
• 1:28:58
  And the best jelly.
• 1:28:59
  I'm going to put it on once on this.
• 1:29:00
  I'm going to check out Arlene.
• 1:29:01
  I'll bring it to Arlene.
• 1:29:02
  You can have a little shot of Arlene.
• 1:29:04
  Deeper for a yum or cassava.
• 1:29:06
  Yum.
• 1:29:07
  Yellow yum.
• 1:29:08
  Really?
• 1:29:09
  I'm a yellow yum snob.
• 1:29:10
  Don't you bring me that.
• 1:29:11
  I'm white yum.
• 1:29:12
  I love cassava more than yum.
• 1:29:13
  But maybe no one's cooked good cassava for me.
• 1:29:15
  I mean, it's just cassava.
• 1:29:17
  I prefer it.
• 1:29:18
  I prefer it.
• 1:29:19
  I prefer it.
• 1:29:20
  Yeah.
• 1:29:21
  Oh lord.
• 1:29:22
  Sorry, they're eggnog.
• 1:29:23
  I don't know what eggnog is.
• 1:29:24
  You not have eggnog.
• 1:29:25
  Yeah, but what is it?
• 1:29:26
  Yeah.
• 1:29:27
  I mean, don't you like it?
• 1:29:28
  A pastry king of eggs.
• 1:29:29
  No, thank you.
• 1:29:30
  No, I'm sorry.
• 1:29:31
  Do you like sorrow?
• 1:29:32
  Do you like sorrow?
• 1:29:33
  We do sorrow pickled onions on our avocado toast at the beginning.
• 1:29:35
  Really?
• 1:29:36
  I want some of that.
• 1:29:37
  That's pretty.
• 1:29:38
  Very pretty.
• 1:29:39
  Are there things that you've put on your menu that are influenced by, as you say this?
• 1:29:43
  Absolutely.
• 1:29:44
  Yardy mash.
• 1:29:45
  What's Yardy mash?
• 1:29:46
  Aki.
• 1:29:47
  I use Aki instead of eggs.
• 1:29:51
  Okay.
• 1:29:52
  So it's like an egg scramble.
• 1:29:53
  Okay.
• 1:29:54
  But with Aki.
• 1:29:55
  Oh, fun.
• 1:29:56
  Anything else?
• 1:29:57
  Yes, we have an avocado toast.
• 1:29:58
  With the sour pickled onions.
• 1:29:59
  With the sour pickled onions.
• 1:30:00
  I want these sour pickled onions.
• 1:30:01
  We do the sausage sandwich.
• 1:30:04
  Okay.
• 1:30:05
  And it is from a Polish priest in St. Elizabeth, who makes his sausages artisanally by hand.
• 1:30:10
  There's a Polish priest.
• 1:30:12
  Yes, living in...
• 1:30:13
  A lot of people call him Father Mark, but his proper Polish name is Father Mark.
• 1:30:17
  Who's living in St. Elizabeth?
• 1:30:19
  Yes.
• 1:30:20
  Making sausages.
• 1:30:21
  Yes.
• 1:30:22
  Cool.
• 1:30:23
  Yeah.
• 1:30:24
  Cool.
• 1:30:25
  So we use his sausages, so that's pretty cool.
• 1:30:26
  Amazing.
• 1:30:27
  It's going to be.
• 1:30:28
  But a lot of things are things you can't get everywhere else.
• 1:30:32
  Okay.
• 1:30:33
  So it's a hard part of a lot of Jamaican ingredients.
• 1:30:35
  It's like I do beetwood salad.
• 1:30:36
  Okay.
• 1:30:37
  Everyone drinks their beets in Jamaican.
• 1:30:38
  I really need their beets.
• 1:30:39
  Yeah.
• 1:30:40
  So.
• 1:30:41
  Very cool.
• 1:30:42
  Cool.
• 1:30:43
  Thank you for me, baby.
• 1:30:44
  Thanks, baby.