Latest / The Karen Kenney Show / ARE YOU AN ILLUMINATOR OR A DIMINISHER?

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ARE YOU AN ILLUMINATOR OR A DIMINISHER? · The Karen Kenney Show

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Unknown: It's the Karen Kenney show.
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Hey, you guys! Welcome to the Karen Kenney Show. I'm super
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duper excited to be here with you today, and I swear I'm gonna
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do my best.
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I'm already worried about too many side quests. I'm already
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worried that I'm gonna be like over here telling a story and
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then being like, and I'm back, but I'm gonna do my best to stay
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on topic. There's a reason why. There's a lot of aspects to the
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thing that I want to talk about today,
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and how how I kind of feel the story. One of the stories that
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I'm gonna kick off with today basically matches.
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Basically matches the sweatshirt I'm wearing. The feeling so I
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have on one of my batsy head sweatshirts, and all it says on
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it for words, it just says "heck,
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like "heck. And there's a picture of little little cat
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batsy head, oh, with his legs and his arms sticking out in
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front of him, just kind of like defeated, sitting on the ground,
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like defeated,
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like, oh heck, you know what I mean. So let's just dive into
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this. You might have seen the title, right? Are you an
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illuminator or are you a diminisher? And we're going to
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get into all of that.
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But let me start by telling you a little bit of a story. And
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this is going to be, you know, sometimes memoirists. You know,
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we do we do seek people who write like real stories, true
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stories, right? Nonfiction work. We really do try to,
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you know, tell tell the truth, meaning factual, emotional
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truth, or whatever. And sometimes, though, when we're
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creating a character or telling a story, sometimes people will
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take what I call like a conglomeration. They'll they'll
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they'll pull from different characters and stuff, so that
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that person on one level may not be able to be distinguished.
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Like they they can't necessarily maybe see themselves and sue
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you.
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But sometimes it like this trait or characteristic exists in many
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people, and they're just proving a point about the thing. Okay,
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stay with me.
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Buckle up. Okay, so this has happened to me more times than I
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can't account. Happens to me all the fucking time. This has been
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my experience. Now you may or may not relate to this. My sense
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is that some of you out there, some of you out there, are going
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to give me a double amen hands because you know what I'm
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talking about,
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and some of you might learn from this conversation. Some of you
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might feel a little like, ooh, ooh, yeah, ooh, I do that
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sometimes. Some of you are going to be like, I'm awesome at this,
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like whatever. And I always want to say at the beginning, you
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know, there's always like, come on, let's use our common sense.
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We're all adults. There's exceptions to every rule. There
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are nuances to everything. So take what works, take what
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applies, and like leave the rest. Okay.
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So
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I'm gonna kind of say a couple. I've been in a couple of
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experiences lately when I've been
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at a place or in a room with people,
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and sometimes these are people that I have never ever met
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before, and sometimes they are people I have known my whole
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life,
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and I will have not have if I've never met you before. Of course,
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I haven't been in the room with you before, or in the space, or
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the event with you before.
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But there are times when I am in a room or a place or a
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situation, an event with people I've known my whole life,
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and there's something that happens, and we've talked about
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this before, right? About how
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I say sometimes familiarity breeds contempt, where it is
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that the people closest to you, it could be family members, it
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could be friends, your coworkers, whatever people who
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see you all the time or whatever?
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They lose. They don't have a lot of. Sometimes they lose respect
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for you, or they don't truly see you. They diminish you in some
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way.
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They're not curious about you anymore. They kind of have
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decided who you are, and they put you in a box, and they don't
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ever try to update the contents of that box. They're just happy
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to kind of label you this thing and leave you there. It's their
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loss. P.S. By the way, if somebody's doing that to you,
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they like to just keep things how how things were, keep it
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familiar, never update the system, never have to grow or do
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some critical thinking or whatever. But I find it
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fascinating, fascinating that you can be in a room with people
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who you've known your whole life, who you haven't seen in
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over a year. Sometimes you just see them occasionally, and that
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you can be with them for over 90 minutes plus, and they will
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never ask you a single question about yourself.
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They don't ask you how you're doing. They don't ask you how
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your your partner, your sweetie is. They don't ask you about if
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you have children, perhaps, or your furry kids. They don't ask
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you about your job, your life, your hat, your dreams, your
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mind, what's going on inside of you, how you feel, anything new
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going on, anything you're excited about. Tell me about
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your work. Tell me about something.
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Like I'm talking zip zero milch nada nothing, nothing. It never
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occurs to these people to check in on you, to ask about you, to
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be like a shred, just a shred of curiosity. So this has happened
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to me. This happens to me a lot Now, one
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of the things that I am most is curious. I am curious about
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people. I'm fascinated by people. I'm always going to be
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like I shouldn't say always. I'm sure there are some occasions
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when I choose to just not be inquisitive. But if I'm not
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being inquisitive, P.S. P.S. If you know me and I'm not being
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inquisitive, there's a reason for that.
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Probably I have made a conscious choice, I have made a decision,
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right? But by and large, I'm wicked curious about people, and
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I ask a lot of follow-up questions, and I say things like
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tell me more, or why did you, or how come, or what do you think,
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or what's that about, or oh my God, right? I get very
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enthusiastic and very curious about people, and it's not so
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much that I expect everybody to be like me and to have that same
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level of curiosity or whatever, but when you have like 00,
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curiosity. about the people around you. I just don't even
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know what to do with that,
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and I don't. I'm about to take my first side quest. I don't
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just see this happening like to me, quote unquote. I'm not that
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special. It happens to a lot of us a lot of the time, but I also
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see this lack of curiosity in couples and people who have been
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together for a really long time. And if you've ever had, like you
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know, back in the day when like grandparents are that age, the
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as they would say boomers or whatever. But that generation of
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people, you know, a lot of them really didn't get divorced, so
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they just stayed together, even though they just could not stand
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one another, and any time the other one would start to talk,
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the other one would like roll their eyes so hard in the back
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of their head that I thought they're gonna get stuck there.
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Like just you could just see you could just see the contempt, and
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a lot of times when you spend long periods of time with
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people, again whether it's a sibling, a partner, a wife, a
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husband, whoever, coworker, whatever it is,
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we start to make assumptions about them that we already know
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who they are, we already know what they think, we already
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assume that we know how they're going to respond, what they're
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going to feel, what they're going to like or not like,
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whatever. And that choice to not see them with fresh eyes, to
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never update the system to never ask questions to never get under
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the under, you know. And I saw a video recently.
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Recently, I saw it like in the last 24 hours, and I found this
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fascinating. And it was a really lovely video, meaning what the
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son was trying to do. But the son did the post, and he was
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saying that he was out with his mom. He had taken; they were out
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to get some food, and when they came out of the restaurant, all
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these people were milling around because they were on their way
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to go see Bruno Maz. All right, in concert,
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and his mother somehow his he found out in that moment, that
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very moment, that his mother was a huge Bruno Mars fan, and that
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she knew all of his songs, and that she loved him, and so what?
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And so on the spot, he bought a ticket. It bought tickets, and
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he told her on the spot he was going to take her to the show.
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And she's in the street, and she's like crying. She's so
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happy. Now, of course, that's like the main focus of the
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video. But what I found fascinating is that his mother
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could be such a huge fan, and he had no idea. And I'm thinking,
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how do you not know? And I guarantee you, a lot of people
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will say, well, maybe his mother never told him. And I'm like,
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let me tell you something about mothers,
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right? Or, or a lot of times, women in general. It's like we
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are not known because we are often invisible,
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right? We are not known because, like, when I think about how
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many pictures I'm not in because I'm the one capturing the
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moment, I'm the one who is thinking about other people's
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needs and what other people will want, and I'm like, I should
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take a picture for them of this or whatever. A lot of times,
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nobody thinks to ask the mom what she needs, what she wants,
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who she was before she became a mother and became like you know,
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do you know what I'm saying? Like doubling men hands, if you
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know what I'm talking about. So,
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people don't ask; they don't think to ask, and that are the
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that is like the qualities of being a diminisher, and we're
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going to get into that right now.
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So that that was one of like so I've had my own personal
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experiences with this. You know, I told you I was recently
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watching my friend's business, and all not all day long, but
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all throughout the day, different people would come in,
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and I would end up talking to these people for like two hours,
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right? But one.
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One of the things I recognized and realized once again is that
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I do like 95, 97% of the asking questions, engaging, wanting,
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and you know why I do it because number one, I genuinely care
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about people. I'm wicked curious, and I like connecting
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with people. And I'm like, if this person is standing in front
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of me and they're coming into this place, whatever it is, it
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could be a place of business or whatever, and they're clearly
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coming in for a reason. And I want to get to know who they
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are. Like I'm like, so like, oh, you're an artist, or you're
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this, or you're that, and I love to ask them, like, you know,
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what were you like? And if you ever see me on my podcast
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interviewing people. Like I genuinely like love getting like
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under the under and like understanding where a person
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comes from and what they feel and what they think. And I know
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I'm not alone. I have my friends. I wouldn't be friends
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with certain. I would not be friends with people who are not
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curious? Well, maybe I'm friendly with them, but I will
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not spend time with people who do not have these qualities. And
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we're going to get into this because I think it's really
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important. So,
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um, to go along with all of this, I'm going to try to stay
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on track, right? So you guys know I said, and like I always
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tell you guys how I have bookcases all over the house,
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and I have a bookcase in my bathroom, and I keep a lot of
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times books in there that I've already read that I want to just
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kind of peruse through,
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that I want to remember, like to to look something up, but
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whatever. So there's a book, one of the books that I have in
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there. I love this book. I'm going to hold it up for you
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right now. This is from David Brooks. It's called "How to Know
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a Person, and the subtitle
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is "The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply Seen.
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Ah, I love this so much. Okay, David Brooks, "How to Know a
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Person: The Art of Seeing Others Deeply and Being Deeply seen,
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and in this book, David talks about these two different ways.
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I will call them ways of being in the world. We could label
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them as these are this group of people and that group of people.
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I think we all have the potential to be either one of
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these groups, right? But I think of it more these descriptions as
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ways of being in the world, and we can always change that. Once
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we get a little clarity and a little awareness, and we start
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to realize, like, oh yeah, like I sometimes have these
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qualities, and I would like to feel more connected to people. I
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would like to have deeper relationships. I really
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desperately want to be seen, and also want to see others with a
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level of depth
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and care, you know. And it's really interesting too. Here's
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another little side quest.
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As part of my DSP, my daily spiritual practice, for a
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gazillion years now, I don't know. It's been a wicked long
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time. I mean, I was hello. I was raised a Catholic kid, right? So
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you guys know my my love of Saint Francis and Saint Francis
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of Assisi. He is the patron saints of animals, the patron
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saints of the environment,
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and he used to go out into the woods and commune with the birds
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and the animals, and he would preach to them and talk to them
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and really commune with them, you know. And so his prayer at
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the end of his prayer, and I'm telling you this because
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part of me has learned over all of these years
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of seeing people. I am in the business of seeing people. I it
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is who I am as a curious person and caring about people and
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stuff like that. But a lot of people are not like this. But
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also, I have trained myself to try to be this way, because
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trust me, we all have a selfish streak in us. We all have had
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times when we have put so much focus on ourselves and our own
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needs, and us, us, us, and me, me, me, and I, I, I. You know
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what I'm saying?
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So this, you know, the prayer of Saint Francis, at the end, it
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says, "Grant that I may not so much seek to be consoled as to
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console, to be understood as to understand, to be loved as to
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love. For it's in giving that we receive; it's in pardoning that
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we are pardoned. Right? And it goes on, but those lines talking
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about like may I not so much I'll break it down you know
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casually may not so much walk around so much worried about
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what I'm getting,
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right? This is a prayer about starting to train our mind. This
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is how I see it: train our mind, break up those patterns of the
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ego, break up the patterns of I'm the most important or
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interesting thing in the room, and really learning to to not
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ask what can I get, but what can I give, right? Who am I being?
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So for 30 plus, I mean, easily, you know, it's more. I mean,
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more than that, 40. However long I've loved St. Francis, I've had
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this prayer in my heart, and I repeat it every day. Sometimes
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several times a day.
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When I feel myself getting a little,
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when I feel myself getting a little whiny, I remind myself of
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this.
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Okay, but the reason why I'm telling you this is, I really
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feel that prayer is illuminated. Also, the essence, the heartbeat
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of that prayer is is illuminated in this book, How to Know a
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Person. So I'm going to tell you something. Let me just read this
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because I think this is so good. This is David Brooks speaking.
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He says, "In every crowd there are diminishes and there are
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illuminators. Diminishes make people feel small and unseen.
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They see other people as things to be used, not as persons to be
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befriended. They stereotype and ignore, and they are so involved
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with themselves that other people are just not on their
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radar screen. You're not even on the radar. In some ways, you
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can't even take it personally because they probably don't see
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anybody. They're so self-involved, and I can think
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of I can think of several people, but one in particular
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online a.
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I can't even call people influences. It just makes me
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want to stab myself in the eye with this pen right now.
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But you can tell when somebody's going through a phase when they
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are like hyper, like self focus and self. They feel really self
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important by just the quality of whatever they're talking about
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and how they're talking about it just gets a little extra weird,
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you know. And I'm always just like, "Oh man, God blesses me.
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Like God bless.
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Okay, now
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here's how we want to be.
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Maybe, perhaps. I know this is how I want to be. I should speak
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for myself, not tell you who you want to be. But illuminators,
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David Brooks says. On the other hand, illuminators have a
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persistent curiosity about other people. They have been trained
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or have trained themselves in the craft of understanding
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others, and they know what to look for and how to ask the
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right questions at the right time. And they shine. Oh, I love
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this sentence. I love this sentence. They shine the
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brightness of their care on people and make them feel
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bigger, deeper, respected, lit up.
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Oh my God, you guys! And I have no doubt you've experienced
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this. I have no doubt that you have met somebody who totally
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put their focus and their interest on you. And I'm not
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talking when like a narcissist just love bombs you. Although I
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sure I'm sure you have experienced that feeling.
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But you know when somebody fully is present and fully turns their
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attention on you, and I say it all the time that one of the
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greatest ways that we show love is to pay attention.
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And what a good illuminator does is they shine their light on
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you, and they're so present. And just their presence of listening
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to you, and looking at you, and asking the right questions at
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the right time in the right way, and being genuine-that's just
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it. It's not. This is not some performative thing. This is
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genuineness. Like this is like this is who I am. Like I do care
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about you. I do want to connect with you? I do think that you
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know you you that I respect you, and I want to learn more about
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you and understand you. You know Maya Angelou used to talk about
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this that like people aren't going to remember necessarily
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like what you did, but they are going to remember how you made
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them feel. They're going to remember how they felt in your
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presence, and a diminisher, man. Can a diminisher just like knock
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you down? Can a diminisher? It's not even that they knock you
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down. You're just fucking invisible. They just don't even
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see you. And I can always tell when I've been in the presence
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of diminishes because I walk out and I think, why did I just
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spend my time doing that? Like I walk away not feeling nurtured,
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not feeling nourished, not feeling connected, not feeling,
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and I'm not saying. Let's be clear. I'm not saying every
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single friggin' conversation has to be some deep, deep, deep,
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deep, deep thing. But I can tell when I'm in the presence of
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somebody who actually gives a shit about me, somebody who
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actually cares about me, somebody who actually wants to
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know me or know me better, you know what I mean. I'm sure you,
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you too, right? I have no doubt that you know what I'm talking
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about. When when you are with a diminisher, a diminisher is
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almost always way more involved in their own business, their own
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drama, their own stuff, their own story, and they do not
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engage. They don't invite engagement. They don't. They're
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not looking for a deeper connection. They're not looking
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to have a deeper conversation. Everything just kind of stays
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servicey unless they're going on and on and on and on about
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themselves. You know what I mean? So there's a difference
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here. When when you're in somebody's presence, you know
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what it's like to be in the presence of somebody who like
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stokes your fire, right? They they they they turn up the
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light. They turn up your light, and then there are the people
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who kind of like suck suck the light. They don't even they
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don't even acknowledge. I mean, they might acknowledge you like
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hey hi whatever, but there's no energy, no effort, no enthusiasm
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in your direction. You know what I mean? So I.
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I think it's really important, and I wanted to share some of
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the qualities. First of all, let me tell you a wicked funny
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story,
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because
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if you're ever out in public, I know, I know, at some point,
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probably all of us have been bad witness to this this experience,
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right?
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This is so it's not funny, but it did make me laugh.
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Okay, so David Brooks tells this story about how one time he's at
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a oh, why is my why I'm not talking to you, Siri, my stupid
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watch.
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So one time he's at a bar, and he's watching. He's like,
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there's a couple, and apparently, right, they're on
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their first date, and the guy he says is just like droning on and
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on and
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on about himself while staring at a spot on the wall. This is
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I'm quoting David Brooks now, while staring at a spot on the
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wall above about six feet over his date's head, and he goes and
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as his monolog,
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because it's clearly a monolog. He's just talking at this date.
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He's not. He's not doing dialog. He's not doing conversation. He
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is just monologuing his way. He says, as his monolog hits its
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10th minute, I sense that she was silently praying
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that she might spontaneously combust. So at least this date
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could be over.
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He says, "I felt the sudden urge to grab the guy by the nose and
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scream for the love of God just once. Ask her a question.
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Oh, he says, "I think this impulse of mine was justified,
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but I'm not proud of it. But look, samezies man, samezies. So
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often I see people,
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you know, communicating or lack of communication. And if you
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grow up in a family where people are just not good communicators,
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it can be so painful if you are a communicator, you know.
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And
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sometimes that lack of communication,
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it happens. because people aren't taught. It wasn't modeled
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for them when they were younger. You know, I consider myself very
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curious. Now, the level or depth that I ask questions, some
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people from old school might say that's nosy. Oh, you're being
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nosy. I'm like, I don't think asking people about themselves
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is being nosy. And if I ever ask a question that's too personal.
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I trust that the other person would be able to say I don't
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feel comfortable answering that. And I always say that to my
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guests. Hey, if I bring something up that you don't want
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to talk about, you can say pass. You can say next. You can. You
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don't have to answer it. You know, I trust adults to be
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adulting and to be able to say,
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yeah, I'm not comfortable answering that or whatever. I
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think it's so important,
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but to not even ask, right? To show no genuine curiosity in
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another person-that to me is just like, oh my god, it's
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painful and it's boring, and I'm not interested, and I don't want
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to waste time, you know. And I've had girlfriends who have
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told me that you know some of their other friendships have
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ended because the person that they would go to spend time
23:02
with, they'd be together for like three hours, and it would
23:05
be in the last minute or at all that the other person would
23:08
realize, oh, I didn't even ask you about yourself, or like, how
23:11
are you doing, or like, whatever, you know. We've all
23:14
been there. We've all experienced it. And in fairness,
23:17
there have been times maybe,
23:20
you know, when you're going through something in your own
23:22
life, when you become super focused, you become hyper self
23:26
focused. I know this happens a lot when there's a lot of trauma
23:31
in young ages, right? I've talked about this before. You
23:35
know when you're too busy, or I shouldn't even say too busy,
23:38
when you're really focused on just trying to survive, and how
23:42
like your next, whether it's your next meal or a roof over
23:44
your head or money or whatever the thing is, when you're in a
23:47
health crisis, a relationship crisis, a financial crisis, a
23:51
crisis of whatever, it can be really hard to remember to take
23:56
that interoception, that focus on what's going on inside of me,
23:59
and putting it out there and and looking around you, you know,
24:03
it's not it's not always easy. But let me give you some
24:07
examples of what
24:10
David Brooks calls the
24:13
qualities of people who are diminishes. And now look, if you
24:18
notice some of these things in yourself,
24:21
please don't. I want to say, don't feel bad, but do something
24:26
about it. That's the fastest way that I change something. You
24:30
know, if there's something that has been going on that I'm like,
24:34
oh, I don't feel great about this, or I don't feel great
24:36
about myself because of this. One of the fastest ways I help
24:40
to get rid of that feeling, that sensation, is I do something
24:43
about it. I take a little action. I make an effort. I do
24:46
my best to change. Okay,
24:49
and he says this. He says,
24:53
what what a lot of diminishes also do is they kind of like do
24:57
an instant size up of people. They look at.
25:00
Somebody they make assumptions and they assume they know who
25:02
this person is, so they're not even going to bother asking
25:05
because they've already come in with this "I already know" type
25:08
of attitude. Okay, but here's here's some of the other things.
25:12
I love this. Listen to the. I mean, I don't love it, but I
25:15
appreciate this deeply. Meaning, listen to what he says. He says
25:18
the number one reason that people don't see others like
25:21
truly see another person is that they're too self-centered to
25:25
try. I can't see you because I'm all about myself. Let me tell
25:31
you my opinion. Let me entertain you with this story about
25:36
myself. And so many people aren't able to step outside of
25:40
themselves, right? They they have their own points of views,
25:43
and like that's it. And it's egotism. This is what he's
25:46
calling it. Number one, egotism. They're just simply not curious
25:49
about other people.
25:51
You've heard me talk about this ad nauseum. If you've been in a
25:54
yoga class with me for any amount of time, if you've
25:57
mentored with me, or I coached you at some point in any
26:00
capacity, you have heard me say
26:03
some of the best qualities of being a student, whether that's
26:07
a yoga student, whether that's a student who's trying
26:10
to, you know, deepen their relationship to themselves, to
26:12
know themselves better, to understand their relationship
26:14
with the divine, the world around them, whatever. The
26:16
number one quality for me is curiosity,
26:20
and you just can't make other people be curious.
26:24
Either you're curious or you're not. I don't know what to tell
26:26
you about that. And if you're not curious about other people,
26:30
you might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself, as
26:32
they say.
26:35
Okay, egotism. Another one is anxiety. I found this
26:38
fascinating.
26:40
So the number two reason
26:43
that people don't see others is that they have so much noise
26:47
inside their own head. So guys, you have so much chatter going
26:51
on about yourself and what you're doing and what you're
26:53
scared and what you're looking out for and the anxiety or
26:55
whatever that you're feeling that you can't even bother to
26:57
know or gather what's going on in other people's heads,
27:02
and so you're constantly thinking, right? Especially
27:05
imagine you have social anxiety,
27:07
and all you're thinking about is, do they like me? Did I say
27:10
that stupid thing? Oh my God, why did I say that? Oh my God,
27:12
this is this, this is this, right? It's like, how am I
27:14
coming across? I don't think this person likes me. What am I
27:17
going to say next? So fear is the enemy of open communication,
27:22
he says.
27:24
And little side quest here. I heard this quote. I don't know
27:27
who said it. I wish I did. I'm gonna Google it later.
27:32
But I once heard this quote. I like to give credit, you know
27:35
me. But I once heard this quote that basically said the biggest,
27:38
the biggest mistake in communication is making the
27:42
assumption that communication has happened.
27:46
I love that. Let me say that again. Like one of the biggest
27:48
flaws of communication or assumptions of communication is
27:51
like, or the problems with communication, meaning two
27:54
people connecting, communicating back forth, is the assumption
27:57
that communication has happened. Meaning, so often we'll say,
28:00
"But I told you, I told them, yeah. But did you follow up to
28:04
make sure that they understood what you said and what you meant
28:07
and how you said it? You know what I mean. And a lot of times,
28:10
people don't
28:13
want to put the time and energy into truly building solid
28:18
foundations in relationships. They're just like, well, you
28:21
should know I didn't mean it that way. You should whatever
28:24
you heard me, or I told you, or I sent the text. I'm like, yeah,
28:27
but you made the assumption that the other person actually got
28:30
it, that they understood you, that they knew what you meant,
28:33
that they got your tone of voice, that they understood how
28:35
important it was, right? And this is where different tools of
28:38
like mirroring,
28:40
you know, reflecting back, saying, "When you said this, did
28:43
you mean this, etc. Right? Okay.
28:46
Another one, another thing that diminishes you-it's naive
28:50
realism. So, people in the grip of naive realism-they're so
28:54
locked into their own perspective. David Brooks says
28:57
that they can't appreciate that other people might have other
29:00
really different perspectives. So when you're the kind of
29:03
person that just thinks like, "Oh, how I see things is how it
29:06
actually is, and how everybody thinks, you know.
29:11
Oh, this is a funny story. He says, "Here's an example. So
29:14
there's this old story about a man by a river, and there's a
29:16
woman standing on the other shore, the opposite shore to
29:19
him, and she says she yells out to him, "How do I get to the
29:22
other side of the river? And he yells back, "You are on the
29:25
other side of the river, because all he can think of is that his
29:28
side of the river is the side of the river, right? So I think
29:31
that's kind of funny.
29:33
Another thing that
29:36
that diminishes do is they have the lesser minds problem. I'll
29:41
sum this up quickly. It says this leads to the perception
29:43
that I'm much more complicated than you,
29:47
and that I'm deeper or more interesting or more subtle, and
29:50
I'm more high-minded, right? So we think of ourselves as like
29:53
kind of being like really special or whatever. Oh my God,
29:57
we think of ourselves as being better than others, right?
30:00
And then there's a few more of these, but I'll just do one
30:03
more. Oh, I'll do two more. Right. So objectivism. So
30:07
objectivism is when people.
30:11
How do I say this? They observe behavior. They observe behavior
30:15
and they collect data on people. And then to me, this is a way of
30:19
saying like you start to make assumptions about groups of
30:21
people, which tells me you stop looking at the individual. So
30:25
you're just like, oh, he's part of that group. He or she,
30:27
whatever they must be this way. It's like no individual people,
30:31
right? You want to be able to,
30:34
you know, be curious about not just labeling people and
30:37
sticking them in a group and then stop seeing them at all
30:40
because people do this all the time.
30:43
Essentialism is when you're quick to use stereotypes and you
30:46
categorize big, big groups of people. That's kind of simple.
30:49
But I love this one. Right, this is the last
30:52
one. Another proclivity of a diminisher is the static
30:56
mindset.
30:58
Oh my god, this is what I'm talking about. You know how on
31:01
the show I talk about so often when people try to put you in a
31:05
box. I talked about this at the beginning of this episode.
31:08
People put you in a box, they label you, and then they never
31:10
update the system. That's what he's talking about. He says some
31:13
people form a certain conception of you,
31:17
one that might have been largely accurate at one point. Right?
31:21
Trust me, people who I grew up with, right? I might still be
31:26
similar or the same in some ways, but I am really different.
31:30
But if you're not willing to know me now, even from five
31:34
friggin five minutes ago, sometimes rather than five years
31:37
ago, 15 years ago, 25 years ago, if don't assume that you know me
31:42
if you haven't had a conversation with me in a really
31:44
long time because you don't know me. What you have is some old
31:47
version of me that you like to keep wrong or
31:52
good, bad, either other, right? But you should get to know the
31:55
updated version of me.
31:56
Okay, he says some people have a certain conception of you, and
32:00
then you grew up and you changed profoundly, but those people
32:03
never updated their models to see you now for who you really
32:06
are. And you you'll see this no doubt if when you ever go to be
32:11
around your family of origin, if you have one, immediately these
32:15
roles tend to click right back into place. People make
32:19
assumptions. People say things about you, you know. And I had
32:22
to say to somebody the other day, "You don't know me.
32:26
I said, "You don't know me, and you don't look on me favorably
32:29
or highly, and you don't respect me. Like this isn't going to
32:32
work because you don't know me, and you've never bothered to get
32:36
to know me. And that's the thing that happens sometimes: is
32:39
people think they know you when they really don't, and you can't
32:42
do much about that.
32:44
So here's the thing.
32:46
Let's talk about illuminators now. I think illuminating
32:49
illumination is where it's at, and these are the people who
32:52
have a deep reverence for the individuality of other people,
32:56
and they want to see other people. They want to create a
32:59
space where the other person feels like they can be
33:02
themselves, they have a certain amount of safety, right? I
33:04
always say we can't determine if a space or another person is
33:08
safe for that other person. They and their nervous system have to
33:11
decide for themselves. But we
33:14
do, we try to do our best to like really see people, to
33:16
really listen, to lean in. That's another thing. Like lean
33:20
in when somebody is talking, like really be present.
33:23
I have met people throughout my life, and I just think when I
33:26
walk away, like holy shit, they are such a good listener. They
33:29
don't interrupt. I'm always working on getting better at not
33:32
interrupting, right? Sometimes in my enthusiasm, I can do that,
33:36
and I'm always like apologizing for it. But I'm getting better
33:40
and better, better as I get older, but I'll probably be
33:42
working on it till the day I die. But I shouldn't say that.
33:46
But hopefully, I won't be. But I'm really trying to get better
33:49
at not interrupting, especially when I get wicked excited.
33:54
So,
33:55
so illuminators, right? We're really good at wanting to see
33:59
people, love people, illuminate, like literally turn the light on
34:03
them and be like, "I see you. Like tell me more. Like who are
34:06
you? All this stuff. So illuminators,
34:10
they have think. This is who I think of as an illuminator. If
34:13
you think of mr. Rogers, okay, one of the reasons why I love
34:17
mr. Rogers is he knew how to pay full and close attention. He
34:23
knew how to be with whoever was right in front of him. He wasn't
34:28
distracted by what was going on around him. If you were in front
34:31
of him, it was as if you were the most important person in the
34:33
world. Now there are millions of us across the world who never
34:37
got to see him in person or meet him in person, but his
34:40
illumination was so strong, his light could shine on us. Even
34:44
when we sat in front of the TV at home, it was like even like
34:47
the glow of the TV light hitting us was like the glow of Mister
34:51
Rogers' love, like full force coming through the tube. You
34:54
know, so Mister Rogers is a wicked good example of that, and
34:59
I think a more.
35:00
Modern example of that is like I try to think about like TV shows
35:04
I watch or characters that I've seen whether or read about in a
35:08
book or whatever. But I have seen Ted Lasso, right? So the
35:14
new season is out. We're watching Ted Lasso, and I think
35:17
one of the things that Ted Lasso does, the character, of course,
35:20
Jason Sanikas. What one of the things he really does well with
35:22
his players, who he's coaching, is he really, really listens,
35:27
and he tries to understand where they're coming from, and he even
35:31
does it with his friend Coach Beard. Right, Beard will say
35:33
something, and sometimes he'll say something back to like just
35:36
to make sure that like they're on the same language. Now, a lot
35:38
of times their communication style is they're already letting
35:41
the other one know, like they snap at each other and they
35:43
point. They do these things where they point, like bingo,
35:45
like you got it, you're on it. So they're constantly letting
35:48
each other know
35:49
that they hit the mark, that they're getting it. But his
35:52
quality of listening is really fantastic, and
35:56
excuse me, he's a really great example of that as well.
35:59
And so let's run down some of the qualities that David Brooks
36:03
talks about. That is,
36:05
he says when you're practicing illuminationism, you're offering
36:09
a gaze that says, "I want to get to know you and be known by you.
36:12
How beautiful is that? And he says, you know. So here's
36:16
another thing. Here's another thing that illuminators do.
36:19
So I talk about this a lot with new yoga teachers, or when I've
36:23
been brought in to to do a workshop with with yoga
36:26
teachers, and I I do a workshop called "Seeing Through You Know
36:29
a Teacher's Eyes, right? Like, what what does it mean to see
36:32
through a teacher's eyes? And I will often tell them, you know,
36:35
the class starts way before the class actually officially
36:38
begins. You know, the the class begins, the the connection
36:42
begins the moment somebody comes through the front door, and
36:45
there's I'm not going to go through the list because many of
36:47
you are not yoga teachers, but I can tell you that right away,
36:51
right away, how somebody experiences you greeting them,
36:57
that's going to make a world of difference because some people
37:00
will look at you with warmth in their eyes, illumination, a
37:03
smile. They turn their gaze to you, and they make you feel
37:06
welcome and seen and happy that you're there. And other people
37:09
like act wicked annoyed, like you're interrupting them
37:11
somehow, like you're being a pain in their ass, like you
37:13
shouldn't be there or whatever. And look, I understand, right? I
37:17
want to be very clear. There are times when maybe you're trying
37:20
to set up, or you're running a little behind, or something's
37:23
going on, and there are people sometimes who come way early for
37:27
class, and you're like, I haven't even had a chance to
37:29
sweep the floor, whatever. So, like, I get it again, nuances,
37:33
but we all know what it's like to walk into a room and know
37:37
that somebody's genuinely happy to see us, right? So,
37:40
illuminators are really good at that.
37:43
Okay, and okay. So first of all, we we illuminators what one of
37:47
the things they they lead with is tenderness, right?
37:51
Tenderness. Oh, and as I'm reading this too, he he mentions
37:56
he mentions mr. Rogers in his book,
37:59
and he also talks about Rembrandt, the painter, and how
38:02
he painted people's faces, and he says tenderness. He's talking
38:07
about he describes the way that he used to to paint people.
38:11
He said he painted even the plainest faces in such a
38:14
remarkable way. It was the way that it was the way that
38:17
Rembrandt saw people that made his artwork so great,
38:23
but there's a quote in here from Nobel Prize, the Nobel Prize
38:27
novelist Olga Tokerzuk, Tokerzak, and she says,
38:32
"Tenderness is deep emotional concern about another being.
38:36
Isn't that great? Soft, kind, gentle, loving. It's so
38:40
beautiful, and the other qualities are receptivity. These
38:44
are qualities of illuminators. Receptivity, right? Your ability
38:48
to open yourself up to the experience of another person. I
38:51
think of this as like saying, "Do I know what it's like to be
38:54
in another person's shoes? Can I imagine, like, ask the question
38:58
to yourself, 'How would I feel if I was on this receiving end.
39:01
How would I feel if I were in their shoes? Receptivity, right
39:05
here you go. Active curiosity.
39:08
Active curiosity. He says, David Brooks says you want to have an
39:13
explorer's hat.
39:15
I cannot double a man hands this enough times, right? You want to
39:20
train yourself in the at of seeing others. You want to ask
39:25
questions. You want to lean in. You want to be present. You want
39:28
to pay attention. You want to reflect back that you're hearing
39:32
them. Oh my God!
39:34
And then he says, "Affection is another one, right? Affection.
39:39
It's so Important.
39:42
Oh gosh. Okay. The other thing is so affection, and then
39:46
another one is generosity, right? Your generosity of
39:50
spirit, your generosity of presence, your generosity of
39:53
attention, your generosity of love. I always say to my yoga
39:56
students, don't be don't be stingy with your breath. Don't.
40:00
Be stingy with your love, right? Be generous. Be generous, and
40:04
then having a holistic attitude. David Brooks says a great way to
40:10
miss see people is to see only a piece of them.
40:16
Oh my God! Look, you guys, being an illuminator
40:20
is something that
40:22
it's like an ideal, right? It's an ideal, and the reality of it
40:26
is is that we might not all nail it every single time. Okay,
40:30
we're not gonna not nail it. All this conversation
40:35
is, right, is reflecting on my own experiences of the past few
40:38
weeks, but just over time in general, and just really
40:41
noticing the world around me and noticing the quality of people's
40:44
interactions and recognizing that we can be, we can do and be
40:50
better. We can be better listeners. We can be better
40:54
witnesses. Right. We can be better at this whole being human
40:59
thing, and so much of what this podcast is about is just that,
41:05
right? It's like just showing up and trying to be the best
41:09
versions of ourselves that we can be. And I'm not talking
41:12
about looks maxing and having a fucking you know 90 minute
41:17
morning ritual where you. I'm I'm just talking about
41:22
knowing ourselves well enough to know how we're showing up on the
41:25
planet and being curious enough about other people, like who are
41:29
you being, and is who you say you want to be in alignment with
41:33
your actions and your choices? Are you showing up as the love
41:36
that you are?
41:38
And we're not always going to get it right. You know what I'm
41:41
saying. We're not always going to get it right, but I do
41:44
believe we all have the capacity to be illuminators. We have all
41:48
no doubt. We have all all no doubt dimmed other people's
41:51
lights by being a diminisher at some point in our life, and if
41:55
we're aware of it, hopefully we've apologized. Maybe the time
41:58
might, like they say, you know, you can't always make amends
42:00
because it won't be appropriate, or it might do more harm to try
42:03
to do that. But
42:06
this is just a little love letter from my heart to yours to
42:08
encourage you to be better listeners, to be better seers,
42:13
to be better illuminators, and maybe we can start to try to
42:19
embody some of these qualities more, and and integrate them a
42:24
little bit more to incorporate them a little bit more in our
42:28
life, in our work, in our relationships, with the way that
42:31
we talk with family members or friends or new people that we've
42:34
never met before. You know, we want to embody the skills of
42:39
illumination. You know, and the Course of Miracles is a line
42:43
that says, "You are the light of the world, and we are each of
42:47
us. Each of us are illuminated. We are each the light of the
42:49
world,
42:51
and it is a powerful thing, and it can be an incredibly healing
42:56
thing when you turn your light on another human being and you
43:00
lean in, and you really listen, and you really love them.
43:03
You're going to have deeper, deeper conversations. You're
43:06
going to have more meaningful experiences. You're going to
43:08
have
43:11
a greater depth of of care.
43:14
And again, I go back to Saint Francis, right? To be loved, not
43:18
to worry so much about about being loved as to love, you know
43:23
that's the thing. Is asking ourselves like like what's the
43:26
quality of my attention right now? What's the quality of my
43:29
presence?
43:31
And lighting another person up with the light of your love is a
43:34
beautiful thing. You know what? Honestly, it's also wicked fun.
43:38
It's also wicked fun,
43:40
and it's also important, I would say,
43:43
to have a person at least, or a couple of persons, friends in
43:48
your life, who truly see you. You know, I I have a couple of
43:52
friends. my My circle is very small. The people who
43:57
I'm in,
43:59
I would say, consistent contact with, like you know, my friends.
44:04
We do see each other, and we celebrate each other, and we
44:07
support each other, and we're not afraid to shout each other
44:10
out. I don't feel like I get less when I celebrate them or
44:14
shout out them, or you know, get wicked excited for them or
44:17
enthusiastic for them when something goes well.
44:20
And there are some people that
44:23
just are pretty stingy with their light, and they want it
44:26
all in themselves. And sometimes, sadly, they don't
44:28
even know that they do it. They don't even know that they have a
44:31
hard time illuminating others.
44:34
And a lot of times, sometimes it's a performance. It's not
44:38
really real, and we all get to learn, right, in our own way, in
44:41
our own time about those relationships, and hopefully you
44:43
won't have to learn too harshly.
44:46
But you guys, thank you so much. If you can still hear the sound
44:49
of my voice, thank you so so much for being here with me and
44:52
for listening and for hanging out. I appreciate you more than
44:55
you know.
44:57
And even though I know, like it's kind of weird, right? Like
44:59
I sit up in my.
45:00
Office like a little weirdo, just kind of like talking in a
45:02
screen. But I really do imagine when I'm doing these. Like I
45:06
always say, like oh, I'm just a little weirdo talking to myself.
45:09
Yes, but
45:11
I'm really talking to you. Like I literally, in my mind's eye
45:14
and in my hat, imagine like you when Thursday comes and you
45:18
either go to YouTube or you go to Apple or my website or a
45:21
Spotify or however you listen to this thing, right? And I imagine
45:25
like my sound of my voice coming into your ears, and it's like,
45:28
oh, we're together, like we're hanging out, and it really does
45:31
mean a lot to me that you take time out of your day and your
45:34
life, which I'm sure is busy and full, to spend a little time
45:38
together means the world to me. So remember, when if you want to
45:41
get this sent right to your email inbox every Thursday
45:45
morning, you can just go to karenkeney.com/signup.
45:48
Get on my email list. I try not to over email. I really just let
45:52
you guys know what I'm up to when I'm having workshops, when
45:55
I have openings for yoga class or Thai yoga massage, whatever
45:59
shenanigans I'm getting up to.
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Just try to let you know. So that's it. So just thank you for
46:05
being here. Wherever you go, wherever you go, may you leave
46:09
the animals and the plants and the trees and the rivers and the
46:14
rocks and all the critters, just like all like this, the whole
46:17
environment and the people, the people that you come into
46:21
contact with, that you conversate with, that you're
46:24
trying to connect and communicate with, and yourself,
46:28
just try to leave it all better. Leave everybody better than how
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you first found them. Wherever you go, may your presence, may
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your energy, may your attitude, may your love, may your
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curiosity, may the quality of your questions, may your
46:43
illumination, be a blessing. Bye.
46:48
Hey, thanks so much for listening to the show. I really
46:51
love spending some time together. Now, if you dig the
46:54
show or know someone that could benefit from this episode,
46:58
please share it with them and help me to spread the good word
47:01
and the love. And if you want to be in the know about all of my
47:05
upcoming shenanigans, head on over to karenkenney.com/signup
47:11
and join my list. It'll be wicked fun to stay in touch.
47:15
Bye.