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Nora Veblen - Wildwood Music Therapy · Look Who's Talking

0:00
Hey. You are listening to Look Who's Talking.
0:18
I am Cameron Minter. I am only the lonely co
0:22
-host. But the host of the hour is Jessica Coffey
0:27
Dickerson. See, you was gearing to cut me off
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again. You need to wait for your last name now.
0:32
Stop it. My new last name? Yes, yes. Jessica
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Coffey Dickerson. What's going on? Thank you.
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Yes. I thought we were just co -hosts. I didn't
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think I was the host. No, you're the host. Oh,
0:43
good. That just sounds like more responsibility.
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It is. It is. That's why if you're not here,
0:49
we don't record. Boom. Hey. Cam. I know. I know.
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What's been going on with you? Let's see. What's
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been going on? I don't know, Cam. We have too
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much time in between, so I don't know what I've
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said last. But guess what? What? Working 9 to
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5. Dolly's gone. She's gone. You know, one thing
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I didn't know about Dolly was that she was like
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a producer, right? She has an awesome TV show
1:26
that came. I don't even, I think it came on regular
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TV where it was the girl with the. many coats
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of color or something like that oh hold up so
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when she was from from when she was a little
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girl that was fantastic honey when i tell you
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i'll watch that yes it's really really good it
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was really telling about her life and how poor
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they were but they want it for nothing right
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it's really good but i'm looking like what's
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next you know she could have yeah that could
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have been a series oh i think so too you know
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what and i think I mean, I know most of the songs
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that, you know, everybody else know. But I love
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the movies that she was. Absolutely. She was.
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Steel Magnolia. Come on. Yes. She was a great
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actress, too. I think so, too. So, yeah. We're
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going to miss O'Dolly. We are. But 80 years old.
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Come on, man. She lived a life. She did. Yeah,
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she lived a life. Someone needs to be doing her
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memoirs. Me and my mom were talking about it.
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What is she, 70? Well, should I tell her? Well,
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she's 72. She don't listen to the show. Oh, I'm
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going to tell her. But she was like, yes, honey,
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because Dolly was up there. I said, mama, you
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not far behind. You talking about her? You not
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far behind, sis. Yeah. But no. She was amazing.
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I remember her coming to Lexington for the Imagination
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Library book tour. And Jonas, our Disabilities
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and Mental Health lead, he's from Tennessee and
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in love with Dolly. Oh, wow. He went to that
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and he came back with a Dolly cutout. Oh, really?
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Like life -size. I see. I see. Yeah. Because
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it's in our office. Okay. I was going to say,
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I saw that. And I took her around and people
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started taking pictures with her. Wow. Yeah.
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That's. What? That's just a little crazy. I mean,
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we have a little bit of fun. Just a little bit
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of fun. Now, talking with you, I found out something.
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And I'm still shocked that there's so much that
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I don't know about you. But apparently. You was
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in a band. I was. I played the trombone. Oh,
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really? Yes. Did you play it well? I got one
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chair one time. Oh, okay. Was this before the
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season or during the season? Cam, it probably
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was in the summer when it didn't count. Right.
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But don't get me wrong. I didn't stay there long.
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Right. Oh. I did not stay there long. Band was
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an easy A, you know? It's not like I like band
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because that was my last class. And at the end
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of the day, I'm like, as long as I make it through
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this, I'm done. I get to go to cheerleading practice.
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That was me. Cheerleading? Yes. How are you going
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to be in the band and a cheerleader? I was. I
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mean, we didn't practice until after school,
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but it was me and a few more girls where we were
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in band and cheerleaders. So football games,
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we didn't get halftime. We had to go on the field
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and, yeah, do that. So one time, one year, they
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put me in the pit. So I played the xylophone.
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The xylophone wasn't working for me, so I ended
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up playing the cymbals. Baby, I tore them cymbals
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up, okay? I played the cymbals and the chimes.
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It was real easy because they discovered, hmm,
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Jessica can't play her instrument and march.
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Oh, how was this discovered? Because I was just
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marching, holding my trombone. You get one or
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the other. You're not going to get both at the
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same time. So that's how I ended up in the pit.
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But then during marching band, I kid you not,
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during marching band, I did color guard. So the
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flag and the baton, I mean the rifle. They gave
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you a rifle? Yes, they did. But my senior year,
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you know senior year, you really done. You just
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there. You checked out. I don't know what competition
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we were. I didn't know where I was going. When
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I tell you, I was probably the reason why they
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got low scores. Because, you know, you're supposed
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to follow. This is your number. We're making
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a heart. This is where you go. I was all over
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that field. I was. Oh, my goodness. I was just.
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Trying to. So, yeah. So you could have got a
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scholarship both ways. No, I could not. I could
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not have. I could not have gotten a scholarship
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for bands. No. And you know what? I used to hate.
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Someone wants to challenge you for your chair.
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Oh, yeah. And there was several times. You probably
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got mad. No, I didn't get mad. I said, they can
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have it. And I got up and I switched. I'm not
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playing you. Cause guess what? I know I didn't
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practice at home. I didn't practice at home.
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So I mean, how did my parents think I will be
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successful in band when I guess they were just
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throwing everything. No, I practice at home.
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My dad will be like, shut up. Like, yeah. What
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am I supposed to do? Wow. Well, that's interesting.
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Hey, so I need to see your band. picture. I know
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you got it. I know you got it. I don't know if
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I know that to anybody. Right. I want to see
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it. Anyway, I think it is now time for a Coffie
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Break. I don't know. You make me mad, Kim. How
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do I make you mad going over your history? That's
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your history. All right. So for today's Coffie
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Break, I want to say, the longer you stay on
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the wrong train, the more expensive it is to
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get home. What you got to say about that? You
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preaching there. The longer you stay on the wrong
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train, the more expensive. You know, that is
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so true because in life, we, oh, I hated that.
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Little high school kids are expected to pick
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their career for their life. Yeah. What do you
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want to be when you grow up? Right. And then
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you go down this train. You're trying to force
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yourself this way and it ain't working. And then
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your passion is speaking out. I'm preaching myself.
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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went business management
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until they told me that I had to work third shift
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at Target. You know, so. But. That was not my
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passion. And my passion began to speak out in
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my work and my supervisor was like, yeah, that's
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a great design. But what about these files? Yeah.
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You know what I'm saying? But you know what?
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And thinking of that part of life, how long or
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how hard is it to get connected to like your
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purpose or what you want to do? Because so many
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people, I mean, go for a very, very long time.
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And even now, like. you you still think oh how
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can I grow how can I reinvent myself or whatever
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the case may be yeah it's but to me it's not
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a heart it's it's what you're passionate about
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yeah it's what you want to do when you wouldn't
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even get paid that's what you got to tap into
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and that's how these kids oh that's how these
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kids are without experience without knowledge
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without whatever they're tapping into their passions
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and they're making thousands and thousands of
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dollars as kids so playing with slime on social
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media I mean you know what I'm saying there's
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six figure kids just playing with slime on social
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media that says a little bit more about us as
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a people but what we would be so interested in.
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Watch a kid open gifts that you don't have. It's
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good in that that child is learning, oh, being
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an entrepreneur. Right. That part. It's bad in
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that we're sitting on the screen watching someone
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else play. Yeah. You could be playing outside
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too. But, you know. But I can't say nothing because
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sometimes I watch slime with my bonus baby. But
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I ask questions. I'm like, so why is this interesting
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to you? And it's the sounds. It's the colors.
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And I'm like, so let's go make some slime. How
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about that? You're that one. Yeah, you're brave
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until it gets in your carpet. Okay. We've got
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a wonderful show. And it's in my carpet right
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now. It's pink. Hot. Hot about it, too. It's
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probably got glitter. Who we got on today's show?
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Okay, so today's show is exciting, at least to
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me, because I think I know about music therapy,
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but I don't think that I do. I pray she gives
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you a lesson. I pray. Yes, I'm scared about the
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lesson, though, because, yeah, it might not be
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what I thought. She's too nice. She's just going
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to let you run. But with Wildwood Music Therapy,
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we have Miss Nora, and I'm going to mess up your
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last name again. Veblen. Veblen. um with us to
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talk about music therapy so nor are we going
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to be singing on the mic today We can if we want
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to. Welcome to the show. We're so glad you're
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here. Welcome to the show. And I know that you've
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been in and out of our classrooms before playing
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music with the kids or them creating their own.
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So if you could tell us a little bit about, like,
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can you define music therapy for us and tell
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us a little bit about how you got into music
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therapy? Sure. I also started in band. and the
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marching band face off face off she gonna win
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you can have it yes have it please be my guest
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um and I loved I loved band I thought I wanted
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to be a music teacher and I started out doing
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that um but what i found i really liked the most
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about my band experience was the other stuff
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the social piece the mentorship from my director
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and just the chance to nourish other parts of
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a young person's life through music so in music
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therapy A music therapist specializes in creating
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musical experiences to help people work on other
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things, growth, development, at any age. So we
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work with young kids. There's music therapists
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in the NICU. Oh, wow. Yeah. So like, for example,
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babies in the NICU are really sensitive to sound
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and light and all the sounds that are happening
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in the NICU, which makes it harder for them to.
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get the rest that they need for healing. So music
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therapy, there's specific techniques to help
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them acclimate to that environment so they don't
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startle so much, they get more rest, they're
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more relaxed, and it helps them go home sooner
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from the NICU. So tying back to the Coffie Break,
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what did you do in your education? Which way
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did you go? In terms of did I follow my passion?
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Yes. I would say yes, yeah. Good. Yes. And I
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was lucky too. Yeah, my family. grew up with
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musicians and they understood that desire to
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go into music too. I never imagined myself as
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an entrepreneur that I do own a business now,
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but that's kind of secondary. It allows me, being
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the business owner allows me to do the other
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things that I love to do. So, you know, starting
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at the NICU, moving all the way through end of
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life, some people are familiar with music therapy
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because of, um music therapy and dementia care
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and you may have seen folks with dementia who
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can still sing and still remember lyrics or maybe
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they can still play the piano and part of that
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is because music is stored all over the brain
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not just on the right side or you know right
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right side of the brain left side it's all over
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it's stored with your emotions and memories from
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your childhood and your whole life so we use
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that same connection to music across the lifespan
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with the work we do with our kids as well. Nice.
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That's fantastic. You know, we're going to talk
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about it a little bit more because there are
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songs that play like from my childhood that instantly
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bring back memories or feelings. And I'm like,
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ah, there's something connected to this music
15:23
thing. All right. All right. We're going to take
15:26
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16:52
You are listening to Look Who's Talking. And
16:55
before the break, we're talking with Noor Veblen.
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And we were talking about, I brought up about
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music bringing up different emotions or tied
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to a traumatic time or even a good time in your
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life. And it's like stored away and just hearing
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it instantly brings it back. Is that... That's
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therapy, right? Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's
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something we're aware of both for the way it
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can benefit people, but also, like you said,
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you have to be aware of harm it can cause if
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it's tied to a traumatic memory or something,
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a really tough time. We might avoid that, or
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we might use that song to try to process what
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happened and talk through, and music can be a
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really safe way to... feel and express emotions
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that might feel uncomfortable just talking about
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or, you know. So is it a cognitive thing when
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you hear a certain song and it just makes you
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feel happy? Like, is that like, I don't know.
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Because the one song that no matter where I am,
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if I'm having a bad day and it plays, I'm like,
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good. And it's doing the butt. Because you associate
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good memories. That's like family reunion. But
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I also look at too, like when I was in college
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and I was getting ready to go to a party. And
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I was trying to pregame. And I'm like, I'm not
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playing, you know, because I like a lot of music.
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But there were certain songs that I wanted to
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play during that time as opposed to other music.
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So it did influence me, you know. Shot, shot,
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shot, shot. Right. Well, I don't know. Not that
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one. Not that one. But yeah, yeah. Something
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like that, you know. Or think about when before
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football, basketball games, it's the music that
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gets the crowd hype. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I mean,
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there's so many brain things going on. Physically
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in your brain, it's stored very close to emotion
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and memory. So you hear a song, you might picture
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something in your life. If it's a good memory,
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that feeling comes back to you. So that can make
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you feel good. Music also triggers. I thought
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you meant. I was going to say, yeah. Maybe I
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don't know the words because I have a bad memory.
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Oh, no, no. No, that's just the Lord speaking.
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Right. So how can we use, you know, music therapy
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with our kiddos? Sure. I was going to say, so
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in what we do at the Child Development Center
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groups isn't strictly music therapy in the whole
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classroom. setting we are doing more of a developmental
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music class but through that music therapy lens
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yeah um we do offer music therapy for young kids
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but it's a little more involved the therapeutic
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process so um here in the developmental centers
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um we're using all those ways music affects your
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brain but kids um a lot of kids do have certain
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songs that they like but at a certain age you've
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probably seen they don't even need to have specific
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memories of songs to just love music. Kids respond
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so well to melody. It captures their attention.
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It makes them want to move. You probably learned
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your ABCs through a song. And the lesson seems
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to stick more through music as opposed to lecture.
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Yeah, yeah. literally using more of your brain
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it's using all the places where um the language
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is processed but also where music is in the brain
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and yeah and the rhythm and all that stuff that
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makes you want to dance um it's kind of getting
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your whole body involved in learning right so
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what about when it when it does come to music
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therapy at what point Or how would you identify
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if a child needed music therapy? And then how
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would you identify whether it's working, if that
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makes sense? Sure. So I would say any child who
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maybe doesn't seem to be needing their developmental
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milestones at the rate that you would expect.
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A child who's been through something traumatic
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and may have a lot of emotions that they need
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to process. has a lot of stress, or a child who
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has a certain diagnosis, if you want to just
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try to help them kind of get ahead and get prepared
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for the next preschool class or prepared for
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kindergarten, kind of like early intervention.
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And what a music therapist does is like an assessment.
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So we look at a lot of things, their cognition.
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their communication how they speak language they
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know do they understand how they socialize with
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other kids right how they manage their emotions
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and their movement and so you would create or
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figure out activities to do all of those things
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and just keep track of how well they're doing
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and make it more and more difficult to kind of
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push them along the path but That's great. You
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know, there are so many, and I think COVID opened,
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I hate always talking about COVID, but I think
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COVID opened up opportunities for people to,
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you know, reinvent themselves, create different
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things. And in my opinion, my very small opinion,
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a lot of people went into teaching their kids
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through music during the COVID. It also is a
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place where our children are vulnerable to not
23:16
get what they need. Right. So I know that you
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have a list of things or list of people that
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you suggest to help teach our children through
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music, different things. Oh, sure. Like different
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artists. Yes. Yeah. I would have to. look at
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my notes to know all of those folks but um yeah
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but there's tons of great um tons of great artists
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somebody that a lot of us uses miss rachel yeah
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miss rachel um and i just recently started using
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miss rachel tunes but A lot of kids watched her
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at home and probably during COVID. And so they
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recognize the songs when we do them in the classes.
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But then we'll change it a little bit so that
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it's something new that they don't recognize.
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They have to follow along or to help move them
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in a different way. There's another music therapist
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called Stephanie Level, Music for Kiddos, who
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we really like. She writes her songs for music
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therapy goals, especially emotional regulation
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and recognizing your feelings, which is really
24:33
important to start, even very young, just learning
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what those words are and learning what your face
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looks like. So is a music therapist someone who...
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has the background of therapy and is musically
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inclined or would they major in music and i don't
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know it's actually its own uh degree program
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so yeah you do we take classes in music um kind
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of like uh like music educators would um how
25:07
to play instruments and um music theory and all
25:10
that stuff. But then also how music affects the
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brain and development and some about anatomy
25:19
and some about psychology and all different types
25:25
of development, aging, the medical setting. So
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do you bring in musical instruments and all of
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that? Yes, yeah, yeah. Oh. Yeah, when we're in
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a class, we... Lots of handheld stuff, maracas,
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we might do drums, also a lot of visuals, stuffed
25:45
animals, maybe parachutes, scarves, all kinds
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of things. Oh, nice. So what would you tell a
25:53
parent that, like, how can they incorporate this
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at home? Music is a great way to... Navigate
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transitions. That's usually my first piece of
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advice. Kids have such a hard time stopping what
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they love doing to do the next thing. But when
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I was in kindergarten and I heard, it's clean
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up time, I knew what was next. Yes, exactly.
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It kind of gets them ready. It might take the
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whole song or you might have to sing it a couple
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of times before it really sinks in. Okay, I'm
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ready to clean up. I love that transition because
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I don't work in the Head Start classrooms, but
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I'm in a Head Start building. And when I walk
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around and I hear that, it's nap time. Everybody
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go to sleep. It's nap time. It's rest time. Okay,
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whatever. Rest time. It's quiet and it sets the
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tone. And I wonder. is is you know they have
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structure here is it is it making it at home
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and so that's that's the question that what some
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because you know and i'm one of them the kids
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here do more things here than they do at home
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and then we figure out you know my wife's famous
27:20
cutting up you know little sausage or whatever
27:23
for my grandson and they already doing that in
27:26
class he's pouring milk you know yeah yeah those
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things so the structure that they learn here
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is something that i believe could help taking
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it home yeah absolutely also it can make it hopefully
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it makes it easier on the parents too if you
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have a song and i've got some resources that
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i think will be online like a cleanup song now
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it's kind of a game and it's not on the parent
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so much to be telling the child what to do we're
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doing it together the the song is making it more
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fun um and we can send these resources out thank
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you for bringing these because this is great
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um to our family so that they can um have something
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to refer to Because, you know, I would have got
28:17
a karaoke machine. It's time to wake up. Thank
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you. I wanted to say to you all, we were talking
28:25
about singing and playing your instruments earlier.
28:28
You do not have to be a good singer or a musician
28:31
at all to use music with your kids. I knew she
28:34
was going to do that. I knew it. You're going
28:37
to open up a can of worms. They do not care.
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Right. They just like it that it's you. And what
28:44
I love so much is I'll go in the classrooms and
28:49
like they'll make up a song, like straight make
28:54
up a song. And it's that is. for me, expanding
29:00
their minds, using their imagination. And I absolutely
29:04
love that. And I think, I don't even know if
29:08
I was on mic when I said, my dad would be like,
29:11
shut up. Yes, you were. But, you know, and I'm
29:15
one that I want children to be able to expand
29:19
their personalities. And I just feel like. Music
29:23
is a way to do that. Music is almost everywhere
29:26
we go. You go out to a restaurant, you'll hear
29:29
music. You go to church, you hear music. You
29:31
go in the classroom, there is a song to let you
29:35
know we're about to clean up. So music is part
29:39
of our daily lives. And then as kids get older,
29:44
like they're teenagers, it's a huge part of forming
29:48
their identity. And kids at that age especially
29:51
really identify with their favorite music. It's
29:53
like really a part of who they are. Yeah, we
29:56
carry it our whole lives. My granddaughter just
30:00
was introduced to Michael Jackson. And we were
30:04
really upset because she knew his birthday, not
30:06
only his birthday. But the hour that he was born
30:10
and she doesn't know hours about that. She's
30:15
actually met you. Exactly. Actually met me. So
30:18
how can our families learn more about you and
30:24
the things that you do and, you know, try to
30:27
be able to get some help? Sure. Well, I've. provided
30:32
some resources that will be up on the website
30:35
with the podcast. You can also check out Wildwood
30:39
Music Therapy. We have an Instagram page or give
30:43
us a call and check out our website. We'd be
30:45
happy to share more information about how you
30:48
can use music or get involved with making music
30:51
with your kids. That is awesome. That is awesome.
30:55
Jessica. Yes. You want to sing us out? No, I
31:00
don't. Neither one of us do. Norah, it was so
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great having you on. Yes, thank you. I think
31:09
this is beneficial to our families and we'll
31:12
make sure to get those resources out. Great.
31:14
Thank you so much. Thank you. All right. You've
31:17
been listening to Look Who's Talking.