Latest / The Elevator Careers Podcast / How IoT is Transforming Elevator Maintenance: Good Service and Maintaining Margins | Chris Short

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How IoT is Transforming Elevator Maintenance: Good Service and Maintaining Margins | Chris Short · The Elevator Careers Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a certain pride also that mechanics have with the equipment they take care of.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud of it.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_01: But when you reduce mechanics' ability to maintain equipment, you don't just erode the customer relationship.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: You erode the pride and tradition of that mechanic.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not what this industry was built on, and that's not how this industry remains strong.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_01: I say you can restore it both and maintain margin and grow out at the same time.
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, and welcome to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the Allred Group.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_00: I am your host, Matt Allred.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: In this podcast, we talk to the people whose lives and careers are dedicated to the vertical transportation industry, to inform and share lessons learned, building upon the foundation of those who have gone before to inspire the next generation of elevator careers.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_00: Today our guest is Chris Short, a leader and visionary in the elevator industry.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: Chris has been in the industry for 20 years and has led pioneering efforts to use IoT technology to improve elevator service and efficiency while also increasing margin.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Recently, Chris co-wrote and delivered a presentation at the International Elevator and Escalator Symposium entitled Targeted Elevator Maintenance: Leveraging IoT.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: Achieving the trifecta of labor efficiency, profitability, and customer satisfaction.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_00: Join us now as we talk with Chris and explore these areas that are so critical to the success and growth of elevator contractors now and into the future.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, welcome to the show.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Matt, thank you for having me.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: It's a pleasure.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: My thoughts exactly.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited to have you.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's always, always a pleasure to talk to you, and I'm excited to dig in today.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: I know that you uh and Rob Wirth just recently presented a paper at the IEEE conference down in uh the Bahamas, which sounds like a blast.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_00: Sounds like a fun point.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: It was great, great opportunity.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was it was all work, believe me.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the uh the the paper is titled Targeted Elevator Maintenance Leveraging IoT, achieving the trifecta of labor efficiency, profitability, and customer satisfaction.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: And I just want to dig into to some of these key points because as I was reading it, uh there's a lot here.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of lot of opportunity.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously, from what I understand, you've you've already done this.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so you're really trying to take some of this magic that you've created and and share it with the world, which I think is awesome.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I appreciate the opportunity again to be able to discuss it.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's it is a passion point for me because when I entered the industry about 20 years ago, um I found that the method that uh the companies uh I had previously worked for were employing were from a preventative maintenance perspective, the mechanic led the way that the elevators were serviced, the communication with the customer.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not downplaying any of it.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think it actually created a nice bond between uh the field mechanics and the customers, it created that loyalty.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um, however, if you're looking to scale and grow your business, um, you need to have some elements of uh of control in them in order to say to understand what work's being done in what manner it's being done, and how you can improve that on the customer's behalf.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: The second uh challenge that I found uh working on the independent side was that when we go up against the larger uh international companies that uh price their maintenance portfolio or programs along the same lines, the level of service they were providing their customers versus the level of service I wanted to be able to provide our customers.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there had to be a way of still being able to do what we promised to do in the agreement while maintaining margin.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of saying, well, uh mechanic, you're not going to um uh perform preventative maintenance on this elevator for the next two months, you can go every quarter.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: How could we still maintain a monthly presence and take care of the equipment?
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: We were ensuring under a full maintenance agreement, uh, and still keep our margin level with the same cost pressures as a larger company.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_01: So instead of reducing labor, reducing presence, I wanted to take the approach of how do we increase it?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_01: How do we maintain that level of service?
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: Frankly, um in my own personal life, if uh if there's somebody coming to take care of my air conditioning units in my home or my my furnace or whatever, I expect them to do what the what needs to be done on the equipment that I'm paying for them to maintain.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: I just don't want them here uh because it broke and now I have no choice but to replace it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's a disservice to a customer that you are uh getting into an agreement with a preventative maintenance program.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where it stemmed from.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, it's it's beautiful.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I like I say I was I was um I was just impressed with with kind of the thought that you've put into it and and the practice and and really dialing it in so that it it works, like you say, it's it's been proven.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And um, and you talked a little bit about this, but let's go ahead and just dive into the current state of elevator maintenance.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about the kind of the discretionary nature, the head mechanic kind of leads the charge.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me a little bit more about current state.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, let's start off with the phrase that uh that that can irritate some people, but there's a lot of truth in it.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot improve what you cannot measure.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So if the state of elevator maintenance in a lot of independent companies is to uh hand over the mechanic work tickets and say, uh, here's your maintenance for the month, and uh we'll see you when you're finished.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Nine times out of ten, by the end of the month, it'll be finished.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's magic how that happens every month.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but is what's being done on the equipment, how is that being tracked?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also, how are you better able to communicate with your customer when there's a need uh that they need to be aware of in a proactive manner versus a reactive?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: So commonly we find ourselves in reactive mode.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's now shut down.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: The customer is in need of service to be performed, repair to be performed, but they're at the deficit.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: They're at the point now where they're feeling um cornered.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: They have to make a choice, whether that may be something that's outside the agreement.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now they've got to come up with money they didn't budget for.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that creates now an adversarial relationship between contractor and customer.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_01: So that's also not controllable from a business and a scaling perspective.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_01: How can you uh still provide the proper service to the equipment that's specified to the equipment?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And another challenge is look, we deal with elevator equipment that has a controller uh made by brand X and the door operators, brand Y, and the buttons or another company.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got this myriad of equipment uh mixtures that all work together, but all of those different types of equipment require different amounts of attention to be paid for them on the preventative maintenance side.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_01: But now you've got a portfolio of a thousand or so elevators.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how do you write a specific maintenance program uh for those elevators?
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: And when you look at that from the 30,000 foot level, you would say that is very complicated.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: How do you do that?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and still maintain a margin as a for-profit uh company.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what what I realized was that you could look at these from a time management perspective, what the mechanic does uh within reason for a certain amount of time that correlates to the contract.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So the could so what the customer's buying, they're expecting.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now the mechanic is performing based on what the customer understands they bought, what's included, what's not.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: The equipment itself is getting maintained specifically and noted, okay, in a database for tracking purposes, uh, so that further communication can be related back to the activities done.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And overall, you're providing the service that you promised the customer.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: You're trying to stop those surprises and get us out of in the elevator uh business and the service business, we're always we were always in a very reactive mode.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: And reactive mode causes employee burnout, it causes all these other things that can to satisfy customers.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: Increase downtime.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I you know, you point out several, you know, deficiencies.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and one being, how do you how do you improve it?
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like you you talked about that earlier, you know, if you don't really know what you have, kind of.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's there's people much smarter than I that actually solved this problem 15 years ago.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and so looking at the concepts of those, and and you know, the elevator industry from a technologies perspective have have not been the early adapters of what the next step is going to be from a technology and IoT perspective.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and also we also don't want to, as independent uh organizations, we also don't want to rely on technology to be our uh our connection to the customer, right?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_01: So what we want to do is have that more transparent um communication with the customer so they understand what they buy, the service they're receiving.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And then when things do go upside down, when equipment fails, because equipment does, uh it's a much more informed um discussion with the customer versus a uh they have to make a decision, they're not happy about it, and we don't feel great about having to having to do it, but that's not the situation we're in.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there is a way to, there is a way to model a preventative maintenance department uh in an elevator company's portfolio that addresses the key needs of the elevator from a perfect preventative maintenance perspective based on what the customer is willing uh to to agree to in a in a contract.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well the nice thing about that is once once they've agreed, you know, they they have I guess they're more visibility.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: They don't feel as blind.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh sometimes I feel like that, you know, going to the dentist, right?
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_00: Do I really have a cavity?
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: Do I really I don't know.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: I can't.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_01: You're not a dentist, of course.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: Of course.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I also feel that there's an educational piece for the customer that um the independents have struggled, I think, over the years to message uh appropriately.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: And frankly, because they've been busy building their companies and providing service, but it doesn't mean it's any less important.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_01: The the the thought process was well, if I have a full maintenance contract as your customer, elevator contractor, if it breaks, you fix it.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, how many times have we run across customers that the contractors have said, yes, it's broken, but it's not our responsibility?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: And the customer then says, But it says here in writing it is.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's a certain scenario under paragraph 5a uh section three that says, well, this is why it's not.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So the other side, so that also now puts all the liability on the contractor for equipment failure.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that's an uneven relationship.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: So if that relationship is that way, it can never be fully satisfied.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Elevator contractor can never make out what the margin they're trying to achieve as a for-profit business and growing their company, and the customer will never be able to say, well, it's all taken care of when it truly isn't.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so, yeah, it it sounds like it's uh you know, and and maybe that's the way some companies like to compete with each other.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, we're just gonna go cheaper, cheaper, you know, but but kind of taking on the risk that, hey, if the generator goes out, we're we're really toast on this contract.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Right, right.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, I think it's actually okay if a customer says, I want the cheapest offering you can give me.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: That's perfectly fine.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: As long as it's perfectly, it's it's appropriately stated what the contractor owes under the agreement and the customer understands that's what they're buying.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: But you can't falsely promise that equipment is going to be covered when in essence there's ways of getting around that if an incident occurs, and we all know that that's happened.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_01: While at the same time, if we're not putting in place a preventative maintenance program that can actually take care of the equipment, well then the equipment's going to fail at some point anyway.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's not being taken care of appropriately.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: So again, the challenge was how do we, how do we, as an independent elevator organization, properly take care of the specific type of equipment that a customer has installed in their facility?
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: How do we write a maintenance program for that that does not take us getting to uh the my the minutiae of going back to the 25-year history that you can't figure out anyway of what's been done to that elevator?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: How do you take it from today?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: Day one, I walk in, here's your elevator, here's your operating environment.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: How do we create a maintenance proposal for you that'll share the liability of the equipment and the age of it, right?
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: In a way the customer finds fair.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do task-based specific maintenance items on that equipment based on the type of elevator it is, age, et cetera.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_01: And then also, how do we provide confidence back to the customer that what they're paying for, they're actually receiving, and we can achieve that through IoT.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you talk a little bit about, you know, in in this article, the the need for change with the evolving landscape of the elevator industry, changes in the economy, shifts in the workforce necessitate a new approach to elevator maintenance and and kind of you know tackling all these items because it I think to your point, it you know, the world is changing and there are a lot of uncertainties.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so how can we, you know, put our best foot forward there out there and and have an agreement that we can feel good about, that they can feel good about, that we can execute on and still make a margin and they can still be happy about, right?
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Is it even possible?
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it absolutely is.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: It absolutely is.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But and and I one thing that I found that I became rather passionate about that I didn't realize was was such a need in our industry, and it may be like this in other industries, but for me, this was my awakening, is the need for business structure or infrastructure to be set up before any of this can be tackled.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: Now, this is not overly complex, but it's vital.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: Without the uh without a company being structured appropriately, not just for who fills the title uh in a company, but really who does what?
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: How does accountability uh with employees be achieved?
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how do we uh resolve and bring up issues at to the appropriate level they're supposed to be brought up?
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you're the president of a company, do you need to know uh that the coffee maker is not working in the break room?
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, unless you're trying to get coffee, probably not.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_01: There should be something set up that deals with those issues so that the appropriate people can act their wage and solve those problems.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing that any company, regardless of size, needs to have in place is a business infrastructure.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: One that I'm very commonly familiar with is the entrepreneurial operating system or EOS.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: It's a worldwide program that's taught.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um and uh just implementing the the theories behind that uh type of operating system allows the company to be more uh structured and formal in the way that it addresses the business it wants to provide.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Gotcha.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and and yeah, you talk a lot about the the business operating system.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And um I was kind of intrigued, you know, something as simple as a vision, a vision statement.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: And defining what it is, what is it that we're we're setting out to do?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um can be a big deal.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, I I remember hearing somebody say that it's kind of like you know, you saying, Hey, hey, we're gonna go on a trip.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Great, where are we going?
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we're just gonna go on a trip.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, okay.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, where are we gonna go?
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_00: Without a vision, it's like we're just going.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_00: We're just going.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if I'm a five million dollar company today and I want to be a$10 million company, how am I going to get there?
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_01: The desire to do it is great, but it's that's not what gets you there.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's putting a plan in place that allows for everyone involved in the process to know what the steps are, but they're also looking at the long-range vision, long-range vision.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's a three-year goal, a seven-year goal, who, whatever.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: But if it's stated and then it's explained to the folks that you work with, and then it's followed by all, that's a key EOS term.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: The cliche of let's all row in the same way is just that.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: But if nobody understands why they're in the boat or what an or is supposed to do, it doesn't really matter.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or where the boat's gonna go, right?
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Where's our destiny?
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_00: It it's really hard to get behind it and and put some effort into it.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't know where I'm, you know, I'm are we gonna do this for a week, for a month, for a year.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to hard to get behind that.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly correct.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, so uh vision, you know, is on the top of this list.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: People, of course, making sure you have the right people in the right spots.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and a lot of people um that have smaller companies or uh on the independent side, you know, they the every company in its evolution hits a ceiling of where they've grown as much as they can grow, and they need to figure out how they're gonna break through that ceiling to get to the next level, whatever that is.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: And people are such an important component of that.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, the vision is shared by all.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's stated, people know what it is.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, that shouldn't be scary as a leader of a company to be able to say in five years I want to be here, in 10 years I want to be here.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: That doesn't always mean that's where you're gonna end up.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, life is gonna be what it's gonna be, business is gonna go where it's gonna go, but that puts it out there for people to be able to look at, right, and focus on.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Now, when it comes to people, um, everybody has a special skill set that they and they only possess, right?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's every every human being on the planet has that.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: However, as you're scaling your company, you need to keep an eye on who can help move those that needle and push that person up to the next rung.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not always the people that you have in place.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now, those people may transition to other things within your company.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes they may decide this isn't for them or not the way they want it to go anymore.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not advocating for if you want to move to the to the next level, okay, nice knowing you group of people, and here's the new group of people at all.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: But you do need to assign the special talents that people have and what's been given them uh in order to help you uh move that specific side of the company.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of companies that start off, um start off with very well-intentioned leaders of companies.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe their skill set is good that they're great mechanics and now they want to become uh a business leader.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but maybe their best talent is that they're great mechanics.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe they're not necessarily uh the leader and understand a PL fully and all of those things.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's always okay.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you do have to have people in place that will help you.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: If you put try to put everything on your shoulders and do it all of yourselves, learn this from doing it too.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you only get to a certain point before there's burnout or or there's lack loss of that vision and and people start to to become less effective.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think to your point, you know, I I think burnout comes partly as I've seen it in my life, right?
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: When when I'm trying to do some work that that maybe I'm just not cut out to do, right?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I I've seen people move, hey, let's promote so-and-so.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's the best salesperson, let's make him the the general manager.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he hates being a general manager, he doesn't like the spreadsheets in the in the people management.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_00: He really wants to sell, and that's where he thrives, and that's where he's he's doing great.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: So uh promotion that direction is not gonna serve him, it's not gonna serve the company.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, through the EOS model to to your point, um, it it has tools in there called people analyzers.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you're the leadership team can look at the the staff of folks that they have and say, uh and in their own minds, rate them to say, okay, yes, this person is great at this core value of our company as an example, and this person exemplifies it, this person uh maybe is challenged a bit by it.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_01: And you can look at just by doing that to say, okay, if I'm looking at these people objectively and where their natural talents are, and then I look and I put them into an accountability chart or an org chart, DOS teaches accountability chart first.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um is that where they really should be?
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and a good leader is able to be able to go to a person who works for them or works with them and say, look, I think you may excel here.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: I know you've been here for the past 20 years, but why don't we why don't we try this?
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And here's the reasons why.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: And you may see them uh flourish.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and having the the courage to have the the hard conversation about, hey, I know you want this title, but I don't think that's the right role for you.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and how do you navigate that conversation when when somebody well I'm I'm entitled because I was uh I showed up before him, so I should have that job.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever the case may be.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um exactly right.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_00: So you you know, you talked a little bit about uh data, we won't dig into each of these, but data uh issues you brought up, you know, how how do you bring the issue up to the appropriate level so it can get resolved?
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: So many times in my past, um, and this is regardless of fancy titles, but every issue can rise up to the wrong person.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: If if the if there's not a method in place for it to be resolved on the level um that it should be resolved in, can be resolved in.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: And what EOS does and and other business um operating systems do is if you're running it through your entire company, it allows for issues to be raised by people.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um let's say it's it's the finance group and they're running uh their their weekly EOS meeting.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: And in that group, one member of the finance team brings up an issue.
• 21:04
  SPEAKER_01: And during that meeting, it's discussed, and the finance team as a whole says, you know what, we this isn't on our this isn't in our realm of being able to make the decision for how this should go.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: We need to escalate this up.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_01: Then EOS allows for that issue to remain visible as it goes up to the next level, right?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it does get lost.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of times we're thinking we got this, we got to deal with this, this, and this.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you don't write them down, document them, or have a process for how they're resolved, they typically get forgotten or kicked kicked around for months.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: On the opposite side of that, an issue that is brought up in the in my explanation of a finance team, this is the issue we're coming across.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: This fun the finance team discusses it as a group and it's resolved.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Well, then it still has traction, right?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: It gets but it gets us resolved on the appropriate level.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what's really really important for functionality of a company to be able to keep performing and moving forward.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, well, and it sounds like you know, you you have to.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Take a step back from your own business.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I hear people talking about being in the business.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm turning the wrench versus being working on the business and taking a bigger view and saying, oh, well, that's not even the right bolt or not even the right tie.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_00: Might have not even have the right part going on, you know, if I'm too much in the weeds sometimes.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, sure.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: But I think based on volume uh uh of business and where the business is at, sometimes as something starts, that is the that person is both the thinker of where the the business is going to go and the way they see it moving, and the doer.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but at some point you're exactly right.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You need to separate the fact of, you know, this happens in in leadership too.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Managers versus leaders are two different things, right?
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: So you have to be be able to extrapolate yourself out of the uh day-to-day in order to see the bigger view, because without that bigger view, the vision gets cloudy.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_01: When the vision gets cloudy, everything else starts to slow down.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and and maybe it's only for a day, or maybe it's for a weekend, or maybe it's for a a three-day thing every every quarter where, you know, hey, let me let me step out of the weeds and and you know, are we are we guiding the ship in the right the direction I want it to go?
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And if not, you know, let's make these changes.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: So EOS teaches this, and that's why I loved it so much.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, when I first came across it and implemented it, it kept everything so simple.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: So EOS states that you must go uh do what's called an accountability chart every six months.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: That means the leadership team goes off site where they can talk privately and openly, and they talk about, okay, in the next six months, our goals are this.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about the people that we have, the positions we have in our company and the way that we are structured.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: Can we achieve those goals under this, under the current state?
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the answer may be yes.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: But it forces you to, on a routine basis, revisit that.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you don't, again, you'll start to you'll start to go off track or or or or um or sway from the goal.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: In the same token that EOS teaches um companies to run their businesses on 90-day segments.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: That does not mean that you're running the financials and your budgets every 90 days and hoping you make your year, because you still have your year goals, three, five, 10 years.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: But what you're learning, what you're doing in the it by putting into bite-sized chunks of 90 days, you're moving the business ahead in increments while staying accountable to the people uh that you answer to that are watching what you've promised to do.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it creates traction by doing that.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about that, if everybody's doing that on every level of the company, think of the traction you're starting to get and moving forward.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if I if I'm not mistaken, I think the the book itself on US is called traction, right?
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because the idea is of hey, actually moving down the field versus just wandering back and forth.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: And and without kind of those 90-day snapshots, well, how do I even know if I moved it forward?
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I'm just you know, wandering about, going in circles.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: In the same vein, though, if in the US world they're called rocks, if I commit as an employee that within the next 90 days I'm going to achieve the X, whatever X is.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_01: Every week, as I'm meeting with my my team that I'm part of, I've committed to that team that in 90 days I'm going to do whatever this is.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now every week I've got to tell them, Am I on track or am I off track?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Very simple.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yes or no?
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if it's no, and I say, Well, I just haven't gotten to it, and we're eight weeks into the quarter, my team should challenge me and say, Look, you promised.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: So it's a way of holding each other accountable here so that traction actually occurs.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and even asking, hey, what's going on, right?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Is there something we can do to support you?
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: Because you know, we're all in this together, we're in the same boat.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: So um no, thank you.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for for kind of digging into that.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you had mentioned a um data-driven maintenance program, which is kind of from from your paper, it looks like that's kind of the next step.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Once you have developed a functioning business operating system and and you're kind of ticking along, you're you're actually making traction, um, you know, making uh the direction you want to go.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that kind of a next step then?
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Is a data-driven maintenance program?
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And this way can it can look like it's it's confusing and challenging.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because again, if you look at a portfolio of a thousand elevators under preventative maintenance of all types of contract, oil and grease, full maintenance, maybe just um uh time and materials, it could be all different types of contracts with all different types of equipment in all different types of environments.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's typically the portfolio you're gonna see uh in a lot of a lot of companies.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: So how do you um how do you adequately provide the service that you're contracted to with your customer base?
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you're doing it the traditional way, I don't think you'd have an answer for me because you would say, Well, my mechanics there every month.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's it's which the which is important because routine of that human being being in front of that piece of equipment every month is gonna create uh that that person knowing what needs to be done every month.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can look at and say, look, we're still gonna give you time while you're there to do what you believe is necessary to do the equipment.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_01: But in this month, we're also gonna want you to focus on these five tasks.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_01: And here's your timeline for doing that.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's a different way of looking at this here.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now, people have said to me, Well, mechanics have always led preventative maintenance in our industry.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: How would you get them to change the way they do things?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: And my response is it actually helps the customer more, enhances the equipment via uh operational uh reliability more if we're able to actually structure this to ensure certain things are being done.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: How many times has a customer come back and said, uh, the authority having jurisdiction was just in, they just did a survey of my equipment for the year, and they found the following four violations.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_01: Why weren't these done?
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: I have a contract with you.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: And the contractor says, Well, geez, we're there every month.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not an okay answer.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_01: Your contract with somebody to provide a service, and saying I don't know, or we'll take care of it next time still is not the right level of service to somebody you're promising something to.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, especially you know what the answers they're looking for, right?
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you you you're not it's not a surprise when an inspector shows up and says, hey, X, Y, and Z aren't done.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying you you you've got the same codes he does, right?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So you could have checked X, Y, and Z and you would know.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: But the truth is we're not we're not operating from we're meaning independents, are not we're meaning companies, are not uh most of the time taking the time to have a very robust database of the customer's equipment that we're even servicing, right?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're doing this with a um, and still the way we've been doing it for 20 years or more.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And where I'm recommending we move is that we look at saying, okay, this is the equipment, this is the type of elevator is, this is the vintage, this is the the um the operating environment.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_01: And if we look at a customer and say, uh, Mr.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Miss Customer, this is what you have, and this is what maintenance program we believe best fits the use of the elevator in its current operating condition, its current age, and then we make contract choices based on that analysis.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't come up with this, Matt.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh John Kosak came up with this in the late 2000s with the MCP.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: This has been around for a while.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_01: It's a matter of how do we adopt it into uh the everyday use.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_01: Now, I want to caution and say that you can't just come with a task-based maintenance program and expect it to be commercially viable.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to be able to think about how you can incorporate those principles into what the market will bear and what a customer will pay.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, so in other words, there's some some thought, some planning, some some discretion.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_00: Some, you know, you you you wouldn't necessarily apply the same tasks to a 50-year-old machine that you did that one do the one that was modernized last week.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Correct.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_00: Is that fair to say?
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: But correct.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_01: But you also, you know, the way it's being done now in many cases is here's our offering, full maintenance, oil and grease.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Which would you prefer?
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's not doing a service either.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_01: So my opinion is yes, this is a this doesn't make the sale any more difficult to a customer.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, I think it's a breath of fresh air for you to be able to go to a customer who's already been through nine times out of 10, poor service delivery, I'll just put it that way, and say, look, I care enough as your service provider to have looked at this to be able to say, this is your current situation and this is what I can offer you.
• 31:05
  SPEAKER_01: And by the way, if we follow this program, your reliability is going to go up.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: Your issues will be addressed more proactively, if not communicated more appropriately.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, what we're trying to do is get a better relationship with the customer so that when the uh-oh does happen, you know, we're we're not near predictive maintenance yet on any level.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: And we hear a lot of buzzwords about IoT and about AI that float around the world.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_01: In the elevator space, the ability to utilize those things based on the myriad of equipment that we have put together in elevator systems.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Look, if I have a Honda, I've got a Honda, it's got all Honda parts in it.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_01: I could take it to Honda to be serviced.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_01: I can also take it to another provider to be serviced as well.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: But it's all Honda parts.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: Elevator systems aren't made up like that.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: They're typically, like I said in the beginning of this, they're all sorts of different things.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: So this is not by no means perfection, but it's a step ahead to be able to garner the customer's trust to you know increase the stickiness of that customer because you're being honest with them.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And and develop the relationship so that when you do need to move to, okay, and here's your capital planner for mod that we need to discuss in the next two to three years, them to be more less um uh surprised and less upset that it has to be done because they've been kind of brought along to understand it has to be.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's the aim of the independence.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: They want to have that relationship with their customers.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: And it sounds like, I mean, and you speak to this a little bit, you know, you would have to go out and actually survey and and know what kind of equipment we're talking about, and then say, hey, here are the things that need to happen, and here are the things we're we're willing to agree to.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: This is what you agree to that you're responsible for, here's what we're responsible for.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, instead of feels like a fresh air, uh a breath of fresh air, I would think the the customers would also like that because I think I don't think they have a lot of visibility into what what their equipment needs.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: Not that they want to be experts, but if it if it's if they're completely blind, well then they're gonna want to question everything, right?
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Why are you charging me again?
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: I already paid you something.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why is this, you know.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yes.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I started my career in North Carolina um selling maintenance contracts and repair.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, going to a customer and doing a survey was common.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_01: We would do it on a piece of paper.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: And typically, this is you know, 15, 20 years ago, but typically you that piece of paper never, nothing ever happened to it after you'd done the survey.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_01: You'd gone back to your office, you created the proposal, you've done the steps to to sign a customer.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: What I'm recommending is that we take that survey that's always been done, whether it was an ops person or a salesperson doing it, but we use that as the as the as the catalyst for where we start our relationship with the customer, actually using that data.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't believe that that's being done anywhere by any company on a scaled uh uh level.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_01: But again, truthfully, I don't want I don't want an adversarial relationship with a customer that I'm providing service to uh at all.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: But if I I can put little things in place that improve that and that create more of those connection points, I think that I'm providing a good service that right now I may be charging the same as my competition, but going down the road, if that service level is that good, I'll be able to charge more for it.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and you talk about contract revision, and and it sounds like you know, if if the contract's written, like you say, oil and grease or old coverage, you know, it would need to be a new contract and say, hey, we're not gonna play the the either-or game anymore.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: We're we're a different kind of provider.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: We and here's how we go to go to market.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_01: And yes, and by the way, customers are still gonna say no to that, even though it's the best idea since sliced bread.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: We're you know, you're not gonna fit the mold of every customer.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's okay, right?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_01: There are certain customers who get fired by contractors and and they just don't fit the mold, and and that that is all right.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: But what confidence a salesperson can walk into a customer's office and say, Yes, I understand you've had experiences in the past with brand X and and yes, this is the way a lot of the industry does it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: And here's here's our differentiator.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is what makes us different, and and then actually being able to prove that, I think that's a that's a it's a game changer.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and the fact that you've proven it out, you know, means you know, you've walked this path, you've you've done this work.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_00: So let's let's talk a little bit about the um the IoT for validating and monitoring.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I've you know, I've I've been to to some of the conferences and I hear people talk about you know different uh AI and you know different tools that are possibilities, but I think what you're talking more about is is actually a solution, a a way to, you know, that they can be implemented now and bring great value.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: So as as you know, when we presented down in the Bahamas for IES, um I partnered with Rob Wirth at Liftai to present.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_01: The reason being is I actually connected with him in 2019.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: This is an interesting story.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh when I became president uh of the of my last opportunity, um, this is a decade or so ago, um I I needed uh a type of mentorship in my professional growth.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew I did.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: And the elevator space being as unique as it was, um, I wanted to speak with other people that were running elevator companies.
• 36:33
  SPEAKER_01: And one day I cold called uh a gentleman named Sean Madden, uh, who ran Madden Elevator up in Louisville, Kentucky, and started talking to him about the way he ran his business.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_01: And uh frankly, it was because of the maintenance issue.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to know how I can improve our maintenance way back then.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: And that led to uh an introduction to Rob Wirth over at Lyft AI.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_01: And at the time, this was 2019 now.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_01: In the time, um, I was interested in something very I consider today to be amateurish, but what I wanted was the ability for a customer that was under service with my company to be able to look on their cell phone and see their elevators' health operation in the same way that I could turn my thermostat down downstairs right now if I want to, right?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: But what that has evolved to is is the Internet of Things and AI and the ability to connect elevators on a single platform, I believe is the next step in the technology uh revolution in the elevator industry.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: And what do I mean by that?
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_01: What's the where's there why is there value there?
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if we've got our company structured so that we're providing the service and we're able to provide the service we are promising to our customers.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're running a data-driven maintenance program based on the equipment that's specific to the to the customer, what more benefit can we have than to have an IoT device that's confirming all of that is happening?
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so I go to the customer and I say, this is our service offering.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we can provide to you based on the equipment that's installed in your building.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then I say, okay, uh, and in order to even kind of put my my money where my mouth is, this the IoT solution will provide the feedback loop that says, yes, based on the operation that we said we were selling to you, or the maintenance we were selling to you based on your operation.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is the operation that's occurring, and here we are fulfilling the terms of our agreement.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_01: So the customer now has transparency in in um in what they're purchasing from the contractor.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_01: Now, that also has to be done in a scaled manner.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_01: You have to be able to scale it.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: And therefore, yes, there's many devices out there that connect to the controller that take all of the controller fault codes and uh that people, again, much smarter than I have to look at and understand what they mean.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not there yet, technology-wise, and I don't believe the industry's there yet.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but this is a start to be able to start to accumulate data, to understand operations, uh, operations of components, and to see where that data leads us to in the next phase of technology in the space.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: So help me, you know, just being a being even you know a step removed.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I obviously haven't uh worked on elevators, but let's say I'm a customer, IoT devices on there.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is is what you're describing like a weekly email with with health information, or is it more of like a here's an infographic that shows that of your 16, you know, uh elevators, you know, these these three are green and this one's yellow and this one's red.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Or just curious, what was that look like?
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_01: So the answer is yes.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_01: Um that it can be customized.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: And then liftai is already doing this uh for their customer portfolio uh that he's been growing.
• 39:49
  SPEAKER_01: And just that simplistic information of how many trips, of how many landings an elevator serves?
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, think about this when you talk about data-driven uh maintenance.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_01: If I send my mechanic, even let's forget about the tasks that have to be done on the visits.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: How much more efficient is my mechanic going to be if he goes to a building and he knows that the ninth floor is the most traveled to floor in that elevator?
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so now where's he gonna focus his maintenance?
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: Because we all know doors are 85% typically of all of our trouble calls.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: So where's he gonna start to focus his maintenance?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, the the the data's telling him you're gonna go to floor nine because that's the one that's hit all the time.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe you won't go to floor four, but three times a year.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a way of starting to specify the maintenance we're providing to the elevator based on the operation, it's already performing daily.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_01: But that's juxtaposed to here's your ticket, go do maintenance.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and yeah, if you don't know right what where where to look or where it's you know most likely going to break down, then uh there's probably you know it goes right to kind of service hour tracking and and you know efficiencies because if it takes you an hour just to figure out that it was floor four, well then that's huge.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's an hour, right?
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_01: But and let's be clear AI, IoT, all of those things in the elevator space right now, without business principles and practices put in place with them, are not the solution.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_01: So there's not one solution that says, well, if you put the look, companies have already tried this where they're putting devices on elevators, large companies, devices on elevators and then reducing FaceTime to the customer, right?
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: Because well, the device didn't say there's a failure, so we don't have to go for maintenance.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_01: What I think is you do that the exact opposite way.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, you use the device to bring more maintenance, more opportunity to the customer.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the better way to do it.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and I think in that case, the the customer, I think they would be willing to pay more to know more, right?
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: If you're if you've got the data to to support that, hey, this actually needs more service rather than less service, we're not just going to put a device on it and walk away and hope and pray it never never hits our, you know, sends us a text or whatever it does when it breaks.
• 42:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but I think the customers would say, Oh, now I can understand why I need to pay a little bit more because of all this, you know, data you're showing me.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_01: It it creates value, right?
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: You cannot argue, you can't argue numeric, uh, you can't not argue numbers.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_01: But I'll also say this that for many years people have tried different types of contracts, whether they be trip contracts or meter contracts.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: And what I'm recommending, and it's from the industry, okay, this is not company specific, this is for the entire industry, that we can move towards an improvement of service while maintaining margin and cementing our relationship with the customer in the areas that most independents are specializing in, which is that niche relationship with the customer.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, I've got just a few questions as as we wrap up.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the big questions that comes to mind, I mean, obviously, this trifecta is beautiful and you know, customer satisfaction and and margins and everything.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how have you seen this in uh affect employees?
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: And especially if I'm the chief mechanic and I'm used to just kind of doing what I want to do, what does that look like?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so that's a challenge.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I and uh uh uh someone approached me when I discussed this with them about three years ago and said, How do you get your mechanics to do this?
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And my question back was, Well, what do you mean?
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is what we do.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_01: So, and that's a very simplistic way of saying if you've built the culture in your company appropriately, or you're in in process of building the culture based on vision, based on sharing knowledge.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: I believe in sharing a lot of financial um information with employees, okay, appropriately.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: But look, they're all in the same game.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: You know, an employee in the elevator industry is not an order taker, is not just doing a functional job.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: They're providing a service.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a different level of employment.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: So you want them involved and ingrained in it.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: If you can develop a culture.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: That allows that information to travel up and down, you're not afraid of sharing it.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: That when change occurs or you ask for change, it's met with less resistance because you can explain it and people have trust in you as leadership.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I made that sound really easy.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: It does, it does take a while to establish all that stuff.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: But those are the those are the tenets of it.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm sure it does.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: I I think uh just hearing you say that though, I mean, obviously there's a there's a way, there's a process.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's not the first thing you do is go and tell chief mechanic that hey, you can't do it anyway.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: You you gotta you have to build the structure, build the culture, build the vision, uh, and then start marching in the same direction.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then it then it seems to make more sense when we say, Oh, hey, and we're gonna do this.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, because now there's buy-in.
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, certainly you could go to the chief mechanic and say, This is what you're doing, and you can therefore look to how to replace them the next day.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so what would you say are the biggest hurdles to actually making this happen?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of pushback, what kind of pain points?
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Aside from the if the culture piece isn't in place, um, then that's a major hurdle.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: You need that buy-in of, like I was talking before, of your employees top to bottom, of why.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then to put it in place and take remove the fear and the potential threat is the second thing.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: They'll see it working, say, wait a minute, this isn't change for the sake of um somebody uh, I'm using finance again, but somebody in the finance office benefiting, uh, and that's the only reason we're doing this.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that the second biggest challenge is the integrity of the data that's within the company.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, a lot of companies have spent a lot of time uh providing service.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the amount of work that goes into modernization is incredible for the amount for the margin return.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's incredible.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you look at where companies have been focusing, it's on task-driven uh activities.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: So, therefore, if you want to go make a change, as I said in the beginning of this, you cannot measure what you don't, or you cannot improve what you don't measure.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have accurate data.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_01: And that can be just as simple as starting to understand how many hydraulic elevators you have versus traction in your portfolio, how many uh oil and grease versus how many fall maintenance.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's very simplistic, but you've got to build some sort of data and it's got to be accurate.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: If it's not, then the programs will not succeed to uh maintain or raise the margin in the way that you'd like them to.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: And you'll lose a little bit of faith in your employees because you're giving them information that is dubious and they can question.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_01: Data would probably be the second after culture uh that would be a challenge for implementing something like this.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, thank you.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_00: So, Chris, last question I want to ask you is um let's say I'm a five to ten million dollar elevator service contractor, where would I even start?
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_00: What would be kind of the first step?
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I thought about this a lot um uh because I've been in that position before and thought those same things and hit ceilings where you know it didn't matter how hard I worked and it didn't matter how much I was enthusiastic or I cared about um the the the next steps and growth of the organization.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um I had to have team buy-in.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that was not by getting a meeting together and say, hey, team, this is where we're going.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_01: Rahrah, let's go.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_01: It has to start with the building blocks of the company.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've got to have a vision and something in writing and in place that says, this is what we look like today, this is where I want to look like in a year, three years, five years.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_01: Again, that that may not occur in the way you write it down, but without at least thinking about it, doesn't give you a platform for a vision to be explained to people.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: So or be executed for that matter.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: Or to be executed, but you can absolutely not move forward in this until you've got buy-in from the people that will do the work with you.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_01: That's the first thing.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, from there, once you've started to get buy-in, and these things can work uh in conjunction with each other, then looking at your maintenance portfolio, looking at the characteristics of what type of equipment I have, what type of uh what uh age, what type of environments I service more than others, then you can start to do a little bit of data collection that formulates, okay, now I know what I have.
• 48:07
  SPEAKER_01: Let me think about plans I can put in place to start to dial into specifics.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_01: Once you've done that, that's very basic stuff and it takes a couple of months to put together.
• 48:16
  SPEAKER_01: But once you've done that and you've understood now how to start directing maintenance, this is all about maintenance labor, by the way.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's the most uh expensive uh part of our of our day-to-day business, right?
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I want to know that if I've got a maintenance mechanic who's gonna work 160 hours for me per month, I want to know what I should be able to derive from that effort.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if that maintenance mechanic is putting in 130 hours to maintenance, truly, because of the program I've written, what am I doing with those other 30 hours?
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: All right, am I just I'm not sending them home because I want to keep them as an employee, all right?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I needed him to be doing work, uh him or her to be doing work that either adds to value somehow.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe I'm taking those 30 hours because now I know I have them available and I'm putting them onto a second part of a repair team.
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a buildable work, and now I'm pushing the repair yield up.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, more profit there too, right?
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_01: Now you're starting to change the business mix of your company.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_01: And and things change completely when you start to do that from a profitability perspective.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Keep in mind, and I want everybody to hear this very clearly.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about reducing time on maintenance.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is not about removing the elevator mechanic from the site.
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_01: This is about enhancing it, but also giving clarity to the customer on what they have bought and what they should expect.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: And as you do so maintaining and building your margin, right?
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the exactly right.
• 49:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it is a win-win.
• 49:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but it is a departure on the way that we typically and normally have done things for the past couple of decades.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I don't see how we move forward as an industry uh without you know getting more black eyes for poor maintenance.
• 50:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's you know, look, uh there's a stigma out there of uh of elevator service providers because of the way customers have been treated.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and look, there's a certain pride also that mechanics have with the equipment they take care of.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: They're proud of it.
• 50:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: But when you reduce mechanics' ability to maintain equipment, you don't just erode the customer relationship.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: You erode the pride and tradition of that mechanic.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not what this industry was built on, and that's not how this industry remains strong.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: I say you can restore it both and maintain margin and grow it at the same time.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: Chris, thank you so much for being here.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate you being willing to be on today and share some of your insights.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_01: My pleasure, Matt.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for having me.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: It was an honor.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for listening to the Elevator Careers Podcast, sponsored by the All Red Group, a leader in elevator industry recruiting.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: You can check us out online at elevatorcareers.net.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_00: Please subscribe, and until next time, stay safe.