Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: OG Guest #4 Brenner Abbott-Harvard University

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BONUS: OG Guest #4 Brenner Abbott-Harvard University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Hey guys, as we roll through our OG series here, check us out
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every Thursday. Bonus episodes in starting
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August 29th, going through October 31st, we're rerunning,
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remixing the original 10, the top ten, the 1st 10 of Gill
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Connections podcast guest. And today we're on #4 OG #4
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we've got Brenner Abbott from Harvard University.
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So this was a fun day that I spent at Harvard where we did
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last week's OG guest, Mark Manjicati, and then we did to
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this week and then we did Cape Atobert part one, by the way,
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next week and this week, we're featuring Brenner Abbott.
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Sit down and learn about his really cool experience as a surf
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shop owner, how he got into coaching, coaching the pole.
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You're going to enjoy this. Super grateful.
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Thankful for Brenner's trust and being guest #4 OG Brenner.
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Here we go. Hey gang, thanks once again for
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joining us here at the Gala Athletics Connection Podcast
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where we bring you track coaches.
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From around the country and connect them to you.
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I'm your host, Mike Cunningham. It is my honor and privilege to
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bring you the stories of the men and women of track and field in
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the USA this week. Got a nice quick short one here.
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Didn't have a lot of time, time to talk with Mr. Brenner Abbott
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at Harvard University. I don't think I can say the hard
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are. I think I have to innately say.
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Harvard. So just get used to it, I guess,
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right. So Brenner Abbott is the pole
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vault coach at Harvard University.
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He was getting ready to host a big time meet here the very next
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day. So he was super busy, super
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blessed that he would spend the time and energy with us here.
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We really, for a shorter interview, really got into some
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really cool things in his background and what he has
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accomplished and how he got into coaching and in his business
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background, which I found, of course, just simply fascinating.
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So please help me welcome the great and powerful.
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Brenner Abbott. Awesome.
2:07
So you, Brenner, you told me you have an interesting career path.
2:10
Obviously you're at Harvard, that there isn't very many
2:13
institutions that are as interesting as this place.
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How long have you been here? I'm coming on my 9th year in
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January. Is that right?
2:22
Yeah. Yeah, I did not know that.
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So work backwards. Where'd you come from?
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So working backwards from here, I came from Northeastern.
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I was there between part time and full time for 12 years.
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That's here. So yeah, yeah, that's about two
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miles down the street. So my commute increased about 3
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1/2 minutes from my house, which.
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Oh, OK. Oh, you're going to say 3 1/2
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miles? I was going to say that could be
2:46
30 minutes. And traffic could be an hour and
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a half. Yeah, yeah.
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OK. So at Northeastern.
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Yep, NE from 1212. Years before that, I wasn't
2:57
really sure coaching was my thing, so I was actually offered
3:01
that that that job a couple times before I before I accepted
3:05
my original career path, I owned and operated 3 surf and skate
3:10
shops. So out of college I started my
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first one in Cape Cod. Yeah, this one before my senior
3:16
year at college, actually. So how did you?
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OK, so hold on. Let's let's work forward.
3:21
Sure. Where'd you go to college?
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Oh. It's the University of Maine.
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OK. And so did you.
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Are you from around here, the New England area or?
3:28
I grew up about two miles away from the start of the Boston
3:30
Marathon, so about 40 minutes southwest of Harvest Campus.
3:34
OK, so and then went to school in Maine.
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What school? University of Maine Orono, which
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is the the most beautiful campus that's always under snow, they
3:44
never get to see, but not. What?
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What did you major there? I was double major and a minor
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so I had a double major. Psychology.
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Sociology with a minor in philosophy.
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OK. And were you a track out?
3:57
I was, yeah. What'd you do?
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I was pole vault, javelin, decathlon.
4:03
Yeah. It was kind of a short career
4:04
due to injury. I had a pretty bad knee injury
4:06
in my in my sophomore year or so like.
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You're saying something very acute, so it's like something
4:12
happened, like did you? Yeah, yeah, unfortunate.
4:15
A fall and then the pole ball. That some money in a weird
4:19
direction. So is that right?
4:21
That's dislocation. But my knee, yeah, I came down
4:25
from the height and landed on my feet and crackle pop that was in
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oh man. And then my my competition
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career and kind of the beginning of what tenant ended up being a
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coaching career. I.
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Was to say is that what kind of so?
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What year was this year? Sophomore.
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This is my sophomore year. And then did that was kind of
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like, OK, I can't physically do anymore.
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So you started. Turning towards coaching, yeah.
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So they've cut me on on scholarship and they kind of
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brought me on more as kind of like a coach, kind of a team
4:55
mate that helped out. And it was kind of my
4:58
opportunity, I guess, to help out the team without, you know,
5:00
scoring points, which was fun. You know, at first, I didn't
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think I was going to enjoy the role.
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I want to be a part of the team. And I ended up actually liking
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teaching, you know, and obviously it was a long process
5:12
to learn the events and all that.
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But yeah, I guess it's kind of what led me to wanting to be a
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coach long term. I'd say.
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Did you think you were going to be a coach before that?
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Hell no. No, not at all.
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No, no. But your mom or dad wasn't a
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coach or anything like that. This is not even in cards.
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This is. Not in my genes, actually.
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If you told me I was going to be a full time coach 20 years ago,
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I probably laughed at you and probably punch you in the head.
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But yeah, no, it's kind of morphed to what it is today and
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I really like what I do. Interesting.
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So what did you think you were going to do?
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You know, I had no idea. I started off, I wanted to be a
5:45
sports psychologist, so I knew it was something, you know, in
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in the sporting realm. And as I got into it, I was kind
5:51
of like, yeah, maybe not, maybe not.
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So yeah, I started my first shop on the summer before my senior
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year. My family, they're pretty much
6:00
entrepreneurs, OK, So I thought it'd be a good idea.
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I grew up loving, you know, surfing and skating, right?
6:07
So. So you, you like, read like
6:09
Thrasher magazine? Oh, yeah, all that.
6:11
Yeah. California cheapskates was my
6:12
favorite. Yeah, I, I was, I was a wannabe
6:15
skater, so I loved it. I loved the culture.
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Had subscription at Thrasher magazine back in the day.
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Used to watch any time it was on TV and stuff like that.
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I just, I was never A, in a place that I lived where that
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was part of the culture either. And then B, when I finally did,
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I remember getting a Nash skateboard from Walmart or
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whatever and it was just absolutely terrible.
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That was my first board. It was a Nash Annihilator.
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Had a picture of a dragon on the.
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I was very boring. It just had the black non grip
6:48
surface and then literally on the bottom was just Nash.
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That's it was very. That's pretty boring.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's always so there was no
6:55
flair to it at all, which was probably good because I mean, I
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would have paid up for flair and just falling off of it and
7:02
everything. There you go.
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So you were a skater kid and surfer kids.
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Surfing is big here, surfing in the Gulf of Mexico and.
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Yeah, in the Northeast, it's actually good surf.
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Problem is the surf is during the hurricane season in the
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winter. So it's kind of like a cruel
7:16
joke when there's snow on the ground.
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There's the biggest way. So it's it's not, but yeah, no
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one is 1 is good in the Northeast.
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It's really good. So like southern islands, Cape
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and the islands, it's semi consistent.
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It's not like the West Coast or anything like that.
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But the best surf I've had in the continental US is actually
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in Maine or not. Yeah, in January.
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So it's cold to tell, but. Yeah, so like super wet suits
7:41
and all that stuff. Yeah, yeah.
7:44
I've never would never have thought of up here as a surf
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area. Yeah, most people don't now,
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unfortunately, with Cape Cod, with the sharks moving in, it's
7:52
like literally the last two times I've paddled out in Cape
7:55
Cod, we had called back in because of great whites.
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Is that? Right.
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Yeah, it's so legit. I never thought I'd say this.
8:00
It sounds like a joke, but. As I see, this is something I
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hear on the news. Not.
8:04
Experience it. Like I grew up surfing out in
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Wellfleet in Orleans in that area.
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And like you knew there's something in the water, like you
8:13
knew that there were sharks, but not whites.
8:15
So you see sand sharks and they're they're fish.
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They're not out to eat neither a whites.
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Problem is if a white takes a bite and pulls and it's going to
8:23
be a bad day have. You ever had any close calls?
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Oh, I've seen a lot of fins out there.
8:30
Nothing to the size of a great white or anything like that, but
8:34
there's a lot of seals in the water.
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When the seals start fleeting, like kind of flipping out and
8:38
making noise and jumping out of the water, you know something's
8:41
chasing so. And you know, sand sharks don't
8:44
chase seals. Seals are big animals.
8:46
So if the seals running, then something's big in the water,
8:49
so. That's interesting.
8:50
Starting three or four years ago, the SEAL started to act a
8:52
little bit differently and we're like, maybe something is out
8:55
here. And all of a sudden, I think it
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was like two years ago, they started, you know, reporting a
9:00
lot more sightings and some attacks.
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And now they just, you see a bunch of fans and they just
9:05
closed the beach. Down.
9:06
They shut it down, right? Yeah.
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So yeah, I think I'm ever seeing they had either was one shark or
9:11
a couple of sharks. They actually had tags on them
9:12
so they could see their migration and you could see them
9:15
coming into the coast more and more.
9:18
There's actually an app for it. I had it on my phone real what
9:21
it's called, but yeah that you can actually follow the
9:23
migration of all the sharks. So they give nicknames to the
9:25
sharks so you can see exactly where they're going.
9:28
There goes tiny so exactly so before killer before you get
9:31
into the water you know before when I used to go out there, we
9:34
used to check the ass like we don't see any tag sharks around
9:37
anyway and given all the. Sharks.
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Yeah, that's a good point, yeah. They don't.
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They don't line up. And I'm bored with tags, right?
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So it was kind of a kind of a crapshoot, but.
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Have you seen those drone videos where they're over the beach and
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you know people are out there just playing and frolicking in
9:53
their sharks? I try to avoid those.
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But yeah, it's amazing. It's it's yeah, they're they're
10:00
they don't want to eat us, you know, but you see those videos
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and they're sitting on your board waiting for the next wave
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to come here. Like I'm probably, you know,
10:09
somewhere near something that you're could eat me if you
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wanted to you. Have no idea if it's there and
10:14
you're not equipped to be in that water like it is.
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No, exactly. You are the foreign matter.
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Exactly. So if they if they if they want
10:24
to to to get you, they're going to get.
10:25
You absolutely, yeah. You're the underdog for sure.
10:28
You're probably not going to win that battle.
10:30
Yeah, right. So you opened up a skate and
10:35
surf shop. Interesting.
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So what? What does that entail?
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So I grew up spending a lot of my summers on the Cape and
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there's the Cape Cod bike path, which is 7 miles of, it's kind
10:48
of like a running trail on the Cape Cod Canal.
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And I got news that they're going to repave it.
10:55
And I grew up competitively skiing.
10:58
So in the summer we did a lot of rollerblading and kind of.
11:02
Ski Simulation. Yeah, OK, yeah, so we also
11:06
downhill, downhill racer ground. So the summer I spent a lot of
11:09
time on rollerblading before rollerblading was a thing.
11:11
It was more kind of like a hockey simulation, ski
11:14
simulation. And when rollerblading kind of
11:18
came on to the scene roughly in like the late 80s, early 90s,
11:22
all of a sudden it kind of blew up into fitness, into aggressive
11:27
rollerblading. So I'm like, you know what?
11:29
There's no skate or rollerblade shops anywhere near the the the
11:32
bike path. So my family helped me kind of
11:37
make a business plan and we want to open up a shop that allowed
11:42
people to buy rollerblades, buy skateboards, surfboards, because
11:46
that's where my heart was. I wasn't quite into the
11:48
rollerblades scene then, but yeah, at least the storefront
11:52
got all the permits needed. With my life savings, this
11:56
wasn't much Is more a big line of credit?
11:58
Yeah, sure. And yeah.
12:00
And you said senior year, you're 2122.
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I opened it the day of my 21st birthday.
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Wow. This is a whole other story.
12:07
But yeah, it's it's supposed to be a summertime thing.
12:11
But the end of the summer, we finished.
12:12
We have a projection. I'm like, you know what, You
12:14
know, I'm going to open this up next year.
12:16
We have a lease for the whole year because that's how leases
12:18
work. OK, let's see if you can make it
12:20
go, you know, the winner. So we did.
12:23
I had AGM running it. I was doing it remotely through
12:26
the phone and just before the Internet was really big, so.
12:29
Yeah. What year is this?
12:30
This is 1993. Yeah, there's no cell phones.
12:36
There's bad phones, so it looked like.
12:39
World. War Two person on the front
12:41
lines with this gigantic phone No, I didn't have one, but I
12:45
quickly purchased one is. That right.
12:46
So yeah. So I felt kind of like a jerk,
12:49
you know, being in class and like, you know, phone would
12:51
vibrate. Your brick.
12:53
Yeah, exactly. My bag would vibrate.
12:54
Have to go outside and take the call into 10%.
12:57
Costing like a dollar a. Minute, I know, but yeah, no,
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the holiday season, that alone pushed us through the winter and
13:04
graduated and yeah, I moved into, I was living on a boat,
13:10
actually, across from the shop, which is in downtown Buzzards
13:12
Bay. That's kind of cool.
13:13
Yeah. So I reinvested everything and
13:17
into that summer we at least the shop next to the original knock
13:20
down the wall from one big shop into that summer, I got another
13:26
storefront in Narragansett, RI and that was more surf and
13:29
apparel based. So we're doing board repairs,
13:34
all kinds of sales, We're actually teaching lessons, which
13:37
is just an excuse for guys like us to hang out in the water and
13:39
push people in the waves, essentially.
13:42
End of that summer, got approached by an investor who
13:45
wanted to open up and design the largest skate park in New
13:49
England. So.
13:51
And I said that I would, but I didn't want to get paid.
13:53
I want the rights to have a shop inside of the skate park.
13:57
So that led to shop #3 and yeah, it was an indoor skate park.
14:02
It was called 2 Pie so which means 360 for all you math
14:06
people. OK, Yeah, yeah, I'm in high
14:09
school, in College in Alabama. So right over.
14:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it was cool, it was it was a
14:13
lot of fun. And in the interim, I kind of
14:17
helped out with teaching some, some pull up clinics and OK kind
14:21
of staying in touch with with the sport just because that's
14:24
what I did. You know, now I was competing
14:26
and get to see old friends and old, old old competitors and but
14:32
I kind of stayed in touch with track, not on purpose, just
14:35
because hey, like, you know, every August I do this count.
14:37
Why not? You know, I have the time.
14:40
All right, so. And so how did are you out of
14:44
that shop business now? I am, yeah.
14:47
That lasted a while. It was, it was a lot of fun.
14:49
This great learning experience made some, some really good
14:51
money actually. But when you're, you know,
14:53
232425 year old kid with, you know, a bank note of 300 K every
14:58
year and you know it's paid itself off, you're just like,
15:01
you know, on the days off you're thinking.
15:03
Right. So a lot of my friends were
15:05
traveling and having fun and I was having fun doing what I was
15:08
doing. But it was, it was, it was a lot
15:12
between the three. I managed all three at the same
15:14
time. Didn't give you a lot of time,
15:15
right? Yeah, I'm always amazed at
15:17
people who own their own businesses and you know, are,
15:20
are not contract employee, you know, their, their, their own
15:23
people. Boy, that's yeah, that's a lot
15:25
of stress, a lot of pressure. There is no off time.
15:27
It's a 24/7. It's a labor love to, you know,
15:30
you start a shop and it's kind of like, can I do this?
15:33
You know, it's kind of like a a class of incoming freshman.
15:37
It's like a whole new set of challenges.
15:39
You know, it keeps it interesting.
15:41
It keeps it fun. But yeah, at the same time, you
15:43
know, 2425 years old, It's, it's a lot, you know, and, and I
15:47
loved it, but I am glad I moved. On all right, you said your
15:52
family were, it was kind of a family of entrepreneurs.
15:54
Yeah, so I was off from a very young age.
15:58
Find out what it is that you'd love to do and get good at it
16:01
enough that somebody's going to pay you to do it.
16:04
So I guess that was kind of not my mantra, but it was in the
16:08
back of my mind figuring out, you know, what it is I did want
16:11
to do after I decided that, hey, maybe I'm doing this my whole
16:15
life. It's a little bit too much.
16:17
Maybe I want some more time. So what did mom and Dad do that
16:21
That's a great philosophy. I mean that the opposite is the
16:24
parents who, you know, hey, you are going to go to Harvard or
16:26
what you know, and put all that stress and pressure on kids from
16:29
the get. Don't even let them make their
16:31
own decisions. Seem like your parents had a
16:32
very like hey find your path and then go do good at it.
16:36
Yeah, they're, they're amazing people.
16:38
They, yeah, they always kind of said, you know, don't do the
16:43
conventional thing. You know, life's short.
16:45
Do what makes you happy. But whatever it is, you do be
16:48
great at it, right? Yeah.
16:50
My mom and stepdad had a basically a a carpentry business
16:57
that led into construction business that led into an
17:00
airplane charter business that led into a corporate
17:05
construction business. So yeah, a little bit of
17:08
everything. And it's kind of cool.
17:09
We've had no money. It's having a lot of money.
17:11
It's having a little bit of money.
17:12
It's having a lot of money. It's having no money.
17:14
And I realized throughout that whole thing, like, money didn't
17:17
really matter. Happiness matter because, you
17:20
know, we've had boats and planes and we've had, you know, nothing
17:23
at all. And it's kind of cool to see the
17:26
money doesn't really affect happiness.
17:28
But I think that there's a middle ground in there somewhere
17:31
where money isn't isn't an issue and you have enough time to have
17:35
that happiness. I had to move to Vegas and play
17:39
poker for a living to learn that lesson.
17:41
When I coached, you know, I coached for 10 years, I was at 5
17:44
different institutions. The two goals were always, one
17:49
was to get to the SEC, which did that, but two was to make more
17:53
money. Every stop had to be more and
17:55
more money. I actually took a pay decrease
17:57
to kind of Mississippi State. But I thought, OK, if I'm in
17:59
Mississippi State, that'll catch me the next, whether it's a head
18:02
coach of a mid major or it's going to an LSU or Texas or or
18:05
whatever at that point. And then got completely out of
18:07
it and went to Vegas and played cards for a living.
18:09
And you know, it's again, it's a little bit like owning your own
18:12
business. There is no safety that it's you
18:13
and only you. And you know, there's a lot of
18:16
ups and downs on that. You know, there's one month I
18:18
thought I'd made the absolute best decision of my life.
18:20
I was going to be a millionaire. I made so much money that month.
18:23
And then the very next month I was like, Oh my God, I can't pay
18:25
my rent. So let me ask you what the
18:27
transition was like from coaching to doing something
18:29
totally different. Yeah.
18:31
You know, it's weird, I don't know, I assume a lot of coaches
18:35
are like this. You know, we're wrapped up in
18:38
our world of coaching that that becomes our main source of
18:43
friendship and companionship and and things like that.
18:46
So, you know, all of my friends and friends were coaches and
18:52
then I moved to Vegas and you know, there's no coaches out
18:55
there, you know, as far as you know, on the tables.
18:57
And so and then, you know, this was O five O 6.
19:00
So Internet was a thing, but not as big as it is now.
19:04
And phones were a thing, but again, not as you know, there
19:06
was no smartphone at that point. It was that was cool.
19:08
I think I had a razor that sounds pretty cool back.
19:10
Then I missed. That phone, I love it.
19:15
So yeah, it was different. You know, you lost touch on what
19:18
you did on a daily basis. And the hardest time was the
19:21
fall because at least during the spring, at least got to see Trek
19:24
meet results. So like, I catch up, you know,
19:27
great friend of mine is like my brother is Chris Baptista.
19:30
You're East Coast. He's West Coast.
19:31
You probably would know him. He's at Cal Poly slow now, but
19:34
he was at Fresno State and I remember making a trip into
19:37
California to go visit just so I could hang out of track practice
19:40
and to the meet that Bob Fraley, I think, was that coach like.
19:44
Bob Fraley. Yeah, he let me.
19:45
Yeah, right. Yeah.
19:46
You know that ball he. Pushed me into his pool when I
19:48
was 18 years old after his St. fault.
19:50
Is that right? Yeah, I'm still terrified of
19:53
that. He's amazing and I did deserve
19:55
to get pushed into the pool. As I say, how I performed at
19:57
that me in the pool. Awesome, he let me.
20:01
Yeah, I'm a nobody. I'm a professional poker player.
20:03
At that point, he's like, yeah, come on the bus, take you down.
20:06
I think we went to Kapolei Slope for me.
20:07
So it was just great to be back in track.
20:09
And but through that ride of the financial side of it and the
20:14
friends that I had through track and field, Houston Franks is not
20:18
LSU and stuff. You know, when it's time to get
20:21
back in the real world, like you knew who your real friends were
20:24
and you you learned what the real value of a dollar is.
20:26
It's actually not that much the the friendships and connections
20:29
that you make are invaluable compared to what it's true.
20:33
It happens to be in your bank. It's true the the community I
20:36
think in the sport is, is something that not a lot of
20:38
sports have. And I've I've travelled all over
20:41
the US and between coaching and competing, I can call somebody
20:46
up and always have a place to stay, you know, and I think that
20:51
I grew up as a vertical jumper. I competed as a primary pool
20:54
vaulter, especially in that event.
20:56
It just seems like the community, it's not you versed
20:59
now it's US versus gravity. You know, I think that forms a
21:03
special bond that a lot of events and a lot of sports don't
21:06
have. Right.
21:07
So it is an interesting event that you're up against the bar,
21:11
not really up against the other person.
21:12
It's almost like wherever we flush out 1st through 8th, so be
21:16
it, but we've got to all clear this bar.
21:19
When somebody clears the bar, they're competing as you're
21:21
genuinely happy. For absolutely, yeah.
21:23
I mean, it's, you know, the famous celebrations are in.
21:25
Polka when? A kid makes a big bar to win or
21:28
set a record in. The competitors rush him.
21:30
Yeah, I think it was Sam Kendricks when he set the
21:32
American record at at Drake, Chris Nielsen when he wanted at
21:37
Austin last year. I mean, all the kids, you know,
21:40
it's it's amazing. It really is.
21:41
It's different. You don't see that in any other
21:43
even high jump, which is a similar event.
21:45
You know it's a bar event. You don't see that in high jump.
21:48
I think, I think in the vaults, I think that fear is a big
21:52
factor. You know, I think that
21:53
adrenaline, I think that like, hey, this is getting up pretty
21:56
high and if we screw up, we might really get hurt.
21:59
That's a good point. People kind of like, I guess, I
22:02
guess not comfort, not the right word, but I think that when
22:06
people have the same fears, really battling that fear
22:09
together, it's not like fear's not, I think, and, you know, on
22:13
the forefront of a vaulter's mind, but it's definitely there.
22:15
And I think that that does form like a really tight knit bond.
22:21
It's really kind of hard to explain and put a ton of thought
22:23
into that, yeah. It's definitely the most element
22:25
of danger. I mean, there are definitely
22:28
other events that are more dangerous to others.
22:30
A hammer throw and Jablin can be dangerous to fans and officials
22:34
and spectators, what have you. But the pole vault is the most
22:40
internal, like, OK, I can get hurt if I do something wrong
22:44
here. Or even if you don't do
22:45
something, you know, there are other things that factors that
22:47
can happen. Headwinds come in at the very
22:51
end of your run. The wind switches in the middle
22:53
of the competition learners, we've all seen that of, I'd say
22:56
it 100. Times.
22:57
But we've seen it too many times, yeah.
23:00
So let's jump back the shops and yeah, you sold out of that
23:05
business, which is amazing. So how did you get it was
23:06
Northeastern your. First coaching job it was.
23:09
So how did you get into that and what made you decide, yeah, I
23:11
want to be a college coach? Actually, it was not.
23:13
I'm sorry, it was not. I keep on forgetting this part
23:16
of my life. My high school, Milford High
23:19
School, called up and said, hey, so you know your coach is
23:24
stepping down and we want to know if you can come and be.
23:27
This is. Your coach.
23:28
This is my coach, my high school coach.
23:30
He had Dennis Brain who was amazing.
23:32
He's no longer with us, unfortunately, but he was such a
23:35
good motivator, XS and OS. He he was a baseball player.
23:39
He was, you know, he didn't really know a lot about track.
23:41
And you know, when I started evolving, he was like, hey, so
23:43
you know, I don't know anything about this.
23:44
I think you're an FA nut from wanting to go upside down and
23:47
throw yourself through the air, but.
23:49
Whatever I can do, he's. Definitely right.
23:51
He's 1%. I say the same thing to my
23:53
athletes all the time. Yeah, he just, he just said
23:58
whatever I can do to help, let me know.
23:59
So. That's cool that he was
24:01
supportive of. It, it was great.
24:02
So I took upon myself to, to, to kind of learn the events that I
24:06
did in high school. I had no idea what I was doing.
24:08
How did you do that? I read a lot of books.
24:11
I watched a lot of videos now. How did you watch videos back
24:14
then? VHS, man, VHS.
24:18
Those little flip books, yeah. That's right.
24:21
So I wish there was the Internet back then.
24:22
Did. You get the videos, the VHS from
24:25
like USATF that would show like the trials and every athlete to
24:28
get those I remember. Those kind of yeah, yeah,
24:31
There's a couple other ones that, you know, my competitors
24:37
that have been doing it a long time.
24:38
I was a latecomer, he was a baseball player going.
24:40
I was going to start doing tracking somebody junior year,
24:42
OK, So to kind of like pick the brain of, you know, other people
24:45
from other schools and coach brain is like, hey, you know,
24:48
whatever I can do to help. And then OK, so here my last
24:51
foot comes down. Just tell me where that was all.
24:53
Right. I can do that.
24:55
But yeah, he encouraged me to to to learn.
24:59
That's awesome. My advance and coach Who?
25:01
Gaijin from Holy Cross, He's a legend.
25:07
He was a official on the track meet, my first ever track meet.
25:12
And so I remember he's like, hey, he's like, you know, do you
25:14
want to be a pole vaulter? I'm like, yeah, I like this.
25:18
It's a lot of fun. He said, well, if you want to be
25:20
good at it, beat me a Holy Cross next Tuesday at 3:00.
25:23
Is that right? Yeah.
25:24
And you're like, OK. So I'm like, OK, I guess we're
25:27
going to do this. So and he told me the most
25:30
important things. And I tell everybody that I give
25:32
him 100% full credit because if you want to be good at this
25:35
event or any other event, don't just do the event to be good at
25:38
it. Become a student of the event.
25:41
Figure out people. You know, what people are doing
25:43
that are better than you do that you're not doing.
25:47
So don't just try to go over bars.
25:48
Learn how to go over bars. Learn how to throw the job and
25:52
don't just try and throw it far. You're not going to get good
25:54
that way. At the time, I'm thinking like,
25:56
this guy's kind of crazy. 20 years later, I'm like, he
25:58
couldn't have been more right. And I tell my kids, if you want
26:00
to be good at something, learn how to do it.
26:03
Don't just you're crazy. Yeah.
26:06
I mean taking everybody does. I'm used to that at this point.
26:10
But yeah, so those were. Influencers, Obviously your high
26:12
school coach. My school coach a huge
26:14
influence. My parents were.
26:17
Also, they were on board. So yeah, they had that really
26:20
cool balance of, you know, not pushing me to do anything.
26:23
So hey, is that whatever you do, be great at it and let us know
26:26
how we can help. So they I went to my first ever
26:30
pole vault camp the summer before my senior year.
26:33
And then I was kind of like, there's a lot to this, but this
26:36
is. Complex that can open your eyes,
26:38
Yeah. Where was that at?
26:39
Is that Rhode Island? I was.
26:40
Wondering if it was Rhode Island?
26:42
University of Rhode Island. And I've actually been working
26:44
that camp ever since. So I was that annoying kid, that
26:47
annoying, you know, high school camper had asked 1,000,001
26:50
questions, literally 1,000,001 questions.
26:53
They probably wanted to kill me and now Bill Faulk.
26:57
Yeah. It was Bill Faulk.
27:00
Yeah. So he he and Mark Straderman,
27:02
who's another major influence, still is great guy.
27:07
They brought me on as a a senior counselor after I graduated and
27:14
I've been working there every year since -2 years.
27:17
Wow. And both was for the Harvard,
27:19
Yale versus Oxford Cambridge European Tour.
27:21
Yeah, I just learned about that. Yeah.
27:23
Never knew about that meeting. It's such a such a history.
27:26
Holy cow. Yeah.
27:27
So oldest running trackman, including the modern day
27:30
Olympics. Yeah, in history.
27:31
And the uniqueness of it and Harvard, Yale coming together
27:34
and then going over there and back and forth and.
27:36
Harvard, Yale can be friends. Yeah, that's that was amazing.
27:39
I just just learned. About for those two weeks, we're
27:41
friends. The other, you know, 50 weeks
27:43
Saturday, that's not so much. They're not.
27:46
They're they're great people, yeah.
27:47
So you take over Milford, your high school team.
27:52
Yeah. So first I was reluctant because
27:53
I was running the shops. I was kind of like, I don't have
27:55
a lot of time, but I do make my own hours and I really want to
27:58
give back and see if, you know, I can at least sit in until they
28:02
get more of a permanent person there.
28:05
So yeah, I coached that team for a year and I realized I just, I
28:09
can't, I can't do it. You can't do.
28:11
I can't. I couldn't run the businesses
28:13
and do that both. Right.
28:15
So I, I gave that up after it was actually two years, sorry.
28:21
And I was kind of like, you know what, I kind of reevaluated how
28:25
I'm spending my time. You know, I was kind of married
28:29
to the shops and it was a goal and they're all going really
28:32
well, which I was really proud of.
28:33
But at the expense of what? So I took a kind of step back
28:38
because if I can't carve out three hours a day, what am I
28:42
doing? You know, So the year before I
28:48
got a call from Northeastern, a kid that I coached, a local kid,
28:52
Wes Shaw, who's now a state policeman in New York.
28:55
Oh, wow, great, great story. But he, I was helping him out at
28:59
one of the camps that I taught, and he was the star of Walter.
29:02
He was the New England record holder scholarship back to the
29:05
Northeastern and they're trying to find a coach that can coach
29:10
the vertical Jones and, you know, some of the throws.
29:13
So coach Trumanhart called me up and said, hey, we're looking for
29:16
a coach. I was like, are you interested?
29:19
I'm like, well, I'm not a coach. I I was an athlete this hopping
29:23
on my high school team. I, you know, don't do this.
29:26
So thank you. Yeah, No, I'll help out when I
29:29
can. So I went in there every once in
29:33
a while to help out last and a couple other vaulters, and I at
29:36
this point sold the two shops in Rhode Island and consolidated
29:41
all the products in one big shop.
29:43
I got the shop on the other side of my original.
29:45
So I won big shop in Cape Cod and I was managing that
29:49
remotely. I was trying to kind of figure
29:51
out how to carve out more time for myself.
29:53
So I moved to Boston and after about a year just kind of
29:56
helping out, I'm like, you know what, You know, I was working
29:59
for Boston Sports Club part time doing some some managerial
30:03
business stuff for them. And I realized that I'm spending
30:07
90% of my mental energy figuring out how I can make these people
30:10
better at going over things and throwing things.
30:13
And you enjoyed. That I enjoyed it, yeah, at the
30:16
time when I was having this Awesome.
30:17
Like, man, money's great. No time, right?
30:21
So when you're making money, times really important.
30:23
Yeah. So I kind of put that in the
30:25
back burner and all of a sudden I had this time.
30:27
I'm like, Oh no, where'd the money go?
30:31
So I'm like, you know, there's got to be a balance in there.
30:35
Yeah. So the second year, I'm like,
30:37
you know what, I kind of like this.
30:38
I got the offer again. I'm like, I'll come on, but just
30:41
part time. I paid part time, OK?
30:43
So I went on more full time with Boston Sports Club.
30:46
I was managing the Boston area business out of their training
30:49
departments. And it kind of morphed into,
30:53
yeah, I really like this whole, you know, coaching thing, this
30:57
teaching thing. So it's kind of cool.
31:00
I realized early on that it wasn't about like the PRS, It
31:03
wasn't about the the, the championship, you know,
31:06
victories. It's kind of about like teaching
31:09
life lessons through the medium of track and field, OK, you
31:12
know, And I think that's why that ultimately ultimately led
31:15
me into Harvard rather than like an ICC or a packed time, right,
31:20
right. Those those are great schools,
31:21
don't get me wrong, But it's really cool to use track and
31:24
fields to teach life lessons. And the most important thing to
31:28
me is teaching people that they're capable of things that
31:33
they originally didn't think they were capable of.
31:36
The aha moment like Oh my God, I actually did that.
31:39
How much of that do you have here?
31:41
Stereotypically, you have athletes, student athletes come
31:45
in here that are already like, they've achieved a lot.
31:47
I mean, if you get into Harvard, I have to assume you have
31:50
achieved a lot in your life. I Yeah, it's just the
31:55
misconception I have of an, of a, of a Harvard.
31:57
But so how are you doing that with kids who already are at a
32:02
high level? I mean, they're athletic,
32:04
academically high level and athletically high level if
32:06
they're coming to school here. And I, I, I think the challenges
32:09
here and the students here are different than other schools.
32:14
So the kids that come here, obviously they're, they're
32:16
supremely hard working kids where they wouldn't be here.
32:19
You know, people just don't, don't have the brain power to
32:21
just flow through life and end up in a place like this.
32:25
I think that it's teaching them balance, how to balance their
32:30
time between their academic life, their personal life and
32:34
their athletic life. So my job at a place like this
32:38
and as an educator, I think, is to teach people how to find
32:41
their own individual balance. So it sounds kind of crazy.
32:46
When people come here, I'm like, listen, it's like, you know,
32:48
this is a great academic institution obviously, and my
32:52
goal isn't to get you down here as much as possible.
32:55
My goal is to figure out how much you can come down here
32:59
that's going to benefit you and benefit us.
33:02
So the way I look at it, there's three buckets that that students
33:06
draw from. There's the academics, their
33:09
athletics and their social life. And I think that everybody has
33:12
their own balance. You know, some people come here
33:14
and they want to put, you know, as much as possible into
33:17
athletics, also do really well, well in academics.
33:20
And if there's time for social life, there's time for social
33:23
life. And there's some people that
33:24
come here like, listen, it's like I am really, really focused
33:27
in academics, but I also want to be great.
33:30
So I think that there is those 3 buckets.
33:33
My goal. Each one has a different.
33:35
A different yeah, so let's. Just bucket how much in this
33:37
one? Yeah, it's not just 33 across,
33:39
it's. It's never 33.
33:41
You know, it'd be nice if it was, but usually people come in
33:45
here, it's like, you know, they want to be great at athletics
33:47
and they want to get a Harvard degree and they want to have a
33:49
lot of fun. So if you have 100 points of
33:52
energy is to it's figuring out, do I want to put, you know, 50
33:56
in the academic bucket, 30 and the athletic bucket and 20 in
33:59
the social life bucket. And it's, I don't think that
34:03
there's a right balance for across the board.
34:06
I don't think it should be 33%. I mean, some people would
34:09
benefit putting, you know, like let's say 30-40 in the remainder
34:14
and in the other. So my job and my goal is to help
34:17
people find their own individual balance.
34:19
And it's different for everybody.
34:21
How? Do you do that?
34:22
Is it learning more about the kid?
34:24
Is it? Yeah, force feeding sometimes.
34:27
It's, it's, it's mainly figuring out the kind of person they want
34:30
to be. You know, every, every first
34:33
year student I bring into the office, it has, you know, where
34:35
do you want to be at the end of this year in those three
34:39
buckets? Like what are your goals?
34:40
How about sophomore year, junior year, senior year and kind of
34:45
holding them accountable to that.
34:47
And given their 18 year old kids, they're going to change.
34:49
You know who you want to be at 18 isn't the same person that
34:51
you want to be at 22. Thank goodness.
34:53
So I know, right? I don't know where the hell I'd
34:56
be if if, if I wanted, you know, if we're not on that same track,
35:00
but. So you have these high
35:02
achievers, do they come to you? How many come to you with over
35:06
expectation, thinking that they could be 100% athletic, 100%
35:09
academic and 100% social? Because they're like, I've done
35:12
it all. I've always wanted everything
35:14
that I've done. I can do that here.
35:16
I'd say is that's going to last about two weeks.
35:21
Do you, but you have that a lot or I shouldn't say a lot, but do
35:23
you have kids that come in well? I'm, I'm very realistic in
35:26
managing expectations at a place like this.
35:30
You know, and the hard part about some of the people that do
35:32
come here is they're the best athlete on their team in high
35:34
school. They're the smartest kid in
35:35
their class in high school. You're not going to be right off
35:38
the bat anyway that the best kid on the team and the smartest kid
35:42
in your class. We have amazing people at this
35:44
school. So I think that in my recruiting
35:50
process, I'm very realistic in saying just that.
35:53
So you started from, yeah, the first phone call.
35:56
The first phone call, I'm very, I'm very real with the cousin.
35:59
This place isn't for everybody. This place is people that want
36:02
to be excellent in athletics and excellent in academics.
36:05
If those aren't your goals, I can help you find another school
36:09
because my, my goal in recruiting isn't to find people
36:12
to come to Harvard. I want to educate people as to
36:14
what this place is because it is hard to understand.
36:16
This is a very complex school. And then figure out if they're a
36:20
good fit for that. And there's a lot of people,
36:21
it's OK. It's like, you know, Europe,
36:23
you're a great, I'd love to work with you, but you should really
36:26
check out school B or C because that's a really, you know,
36:29
that's a better fit for you. So it's just come back to bite
36:33
me because those people go on to the schools and they're really
36:35
good. We have a hard time beating them
36:36
but. So you, you, it's interesting,
36:38
you draw a lot, whether it's consciously or subconsciously
36:43
for you on your prioritization of time and other activities.
36:49
You talked a lot about that when you own the businesses and
36:51
you're trying to coach and when you're in school and then
36:54
coaching because of the injury and things like that, how long
36:58
you've been here 9. Years going on 9.
37:00
You've been nine years in January.
37:01
How, how long did it take you to kind of get into that group here
37:04
at Harvard with that type of philosophy?
37:07
I'm still working on. Is that right?
37:09
Yeah, I'm still working on it. Yeah.
37:11
No, it's a work in progress. I mean, when I when I was, you
37:16
know, kind of searching for or kind of thinking about taking
37:20
the job here, I didn't really know what Harvard was, you know,
37:24
growing up in the area and we have all these preconceived
37:27
notions as to what the school. Is.
37:29
And it's not, it's not what people think it is at all.
37:33
It's, it's, it's a collection of really, really hard working
37:39
people. I think that especially growing
37:41
up in the area, you know, I thought it was a little bit blue
37:44
blood, a little bit Snooty. Privilege.
37:47
And a lot of privilege and I'll tell you, I, I, I would not work
37:51
well with our population. That's not me at all.
37:55
But I got to know some of these kids.
37:56
You know, I've had friends that coach here.
37:59
I used to work with two post grad decathletes that work part
38:03
time here, actually ended up being full time and through them
38:08
kind of coming over here, working with, with the coaches,
38:10
I met a lot of the kids and was like, holy cow, like I couldn't
38:14
be more wrong. You know, these kids are
38:16
unbelievable. And we had the whole spectrum of
38:20
kids here. We had people that grew up with
38:22
absolutely nothing. We've had some people that grew
38:25
up with, you know, the most amazing resources and everything
38:28
in between. And the cool thing is, is here
38:31
you can't tell which is which. So I think people conquer
38:34
knowing the stigma of this place carries network really hard to
38:37
not fall into that stereotype. And admissions does an amazing
38:41
job of betting some people that you do think are the
38:44
stereotypical Harvard kids, right?
38:46
So, yeah, this place is very, very misunderstood.
38:49
Yeah. It's really hard to explain why.
38:51
And so you come here and you actually meet the students.
38:53
Yeah, that is interesting. And I do seem to learn more
38:56
about Harvard outside of the, you know, what I've seen in
39:00
movies and and such and things like that.
39:02
And of course the stereotypes come first when you don't, when
39:07
you haven't been here. I remember I was in Boston for
39:09
the first time in my life ever about eight or nine years ago,
39:12
so close when you start here for a different convention.
39:15
And the one thing I wanted to do when I before I came home, I had
39:19
a little one year old, so I wanted to get a future Harvard
39:22
onesie. It was just, you know, that was
39:24
just the thing. I've been to every other
39:26
institutions in this country. I've never thought about getting
39:29
that for my kids. I was like, oh, osmosis, like
39:33
maybe he'll be there by onesie. Yeah, absolutely.
39:36
Well, hey, we just have a couple of minutes before you got to get
39:39
going because you're hosting a freaking meet this weekend,
39:41
tomorrow. Yeah, a unique one.
39:43
You're hosting some events here on Friday and some events over
39:46
at BU on Saturday, I guess. So we came up this year both
39:50
this idea before years ago. It's called the Crimson Elite
39:53
me. We want to have really high
39:54
level talent come to the Northeast because we have a
39:58
really good indoor track. Our speed, power areas that our
40:03
sprints, hurdles, throws, jumps, areas are in my opinion second
40:06
to none. Our Oval is is a good place to
40:08
train, but it's not quite the fastest Oval.
40:11
BU on the other hand, which is 5 minutes down the road, has
40:14
probably the fastest level in the nation in my opinion.
40:16
Yeah, I learned all about that on Monday, so.
40:18
Oh yeah, I'm sure, Gabe. Told me all about it.
40:20
Yeah. Oh, Gabe.
40:21
'S been there a while and it's great to have him back in
40:25
Boston, but we want to have top level talent come in to take
40:30
advantage of both venues. But obviously it'd be in two
40:33
different schools. We couldn't combine the meats.
40:35
So it's kind of an agreement that we sent out where
40:38
back-to-back Friday, Saturday Speed power talent competes here
40:42
and we have track events because you have to stay within the Ng
40:46
AA rules. How many events make illegal
40:48
meet? But it's kind of a not a rule,
40:52
but a suggestion where the top talent, the speed power events
40:57
compete here and then 200 not compete to be the following.
41:00
And it's worked out. We've got some great teams.
41:02
Is it the exact same teams? For the most part, we both
41:06
allow, like in in our case of Crimson Elite meet without the
41:09
top 16 entrance, primarily college, but someone's going to
41:13
push the pace in one of the events to help out the
41:17
collegiates. Then we accept that man.
41:19
So the high level long jumper, Kate Hall's coming in from Asus
41:22
to Long John, she's going to push the field.
41:24
She's from what, Maine? Yeah, yeah.
41:27
So, so we're doing the 16 lounge up.
41:29
We're super excited to host her. But yeah, I think the more
41:32
talent that we have come in, the more talent will attract.
41:34
And we're looking to get a high level meet in the Northeast.
41:37
That's awesome. So get teams all around you
41:39
talked about from Florida and Alabama and Florida, It's a
41:42
great place to be. Virginia and it.
41:44
Didn't snow so people no travel delays.
41:47
It didn't snow yet. It's New England, so that's
41:50
good. Look at your watch and it could
41:52
be 80° one day and then a couple hours later it'll be snowing and
41:56
sleeping. You know, you never know what
41:57
you're. Going to get.
41:57
That's it, man. Well, Brenner, thank you so
41:59
much, man. Appreciate your time.
42:00
Thank you very much. You know you sacrificed a lot of
42:03
time for me here because I know how busy you are.
42:05
My. Pleasure.
42:06
Appreciate you sharing your story man.
42:07
Thank you so much. Thank you.
42:10
Man, there is so much more to learn about this fascinating
42:14
individual. Really has done a lot in his
42:16
career in a short amount of time.
42:19
Probably doesn't get the do that he deserves.
42:22
What a fantastic coach who really you know there.
42:25
You can tell near the end as we started getting into the
42:28
priorities of his athletes, you know, their athletic and
42:32
academic and social life really has an understanding of the
42:36
individuality of the, of the individuals that he has on his
42:39
team there at Harvard University.
42:43
So again, can't say thanks enough for Mr. Brenner joining
42:46
us. Hey, and if you have made it
42:48
this far, I really appreciate you for joining us.
42:51
I hope you enjoyed connecting with Brenner as much as I did.
42:55
If you or someone you know would like to be a guest on the show,
42:58
contact me at HURDL egillathletics.com.
43:05
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43:08
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