Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #211: Brooke Rasnick-Elevate Athletic Recruiting

Transcript

#211: Brooke Rasnick-Elevate Athletic Recruiting · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  Track and field coach, the ones that point
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  people most every season. He's the voice of reason.
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  Speaking, the growth gotta prep for you carry the load.
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  Talk to the stove. For those of us, stay on the go
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  pop, the handle, staying in the zone.
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  What you packing for the role is more than one way to go taking
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  those tests. And you told it ain't practice
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  it before it became clear. You can't happen to you.
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  Listen with both ears, can't Mentor, without a mentor, kids
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  of experience, you can reinvent those kids.
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  Every plans got to stand and deliver in the price sacrifice,
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  can you give up Hugh its choice and to fight not to win or lose?
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  It's not a boy, but if I see, y'all can make more movies, not
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  about how to All about why you don't know what you're you know
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  who you are inside. Six, many ways to die.
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  She's not absorb. Your faults Finish Line.
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  The work ain't done. So we learn from the experts to.
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  Y'all got to put in the legwork Gil athletic shoes Network.
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  It's all about Connections put together for the profession to
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  every track coach could be blessed.
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  All right, here we go. Welcome back to kill Athletics
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  connections, podcast episode 211.
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  I'm quite amazed actually 211, you guys and gals are still out
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  there listening. So so I'm really impressed by
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  you. Because these are not easy to
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  listen to, we're going to be with today's guests.
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  I imagine we're probably gonna be five six hours today, easily.
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  I know there's enough topic here to go that far.
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  But in reality reality, we're probably going to be our hour
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  and a half hour. 45 will see help me welcome.
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  This is really interesting. You've already seen the name and
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  the always put the School named right after our guests, and
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  you've already seen Elevate athletic recruiting and you
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  might wonder athlete. Recruiting, you might wonder
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  what? I don't know that school.
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  What in the world is that we're going to find out today and more
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  help me welcome from Elevate athlete.
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  Recruiting the wise. The wonderful Miss Brooke,
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  razmig broke. How are you?
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  Great, great thanks, Mike, I appreciate you.
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  Having me on. Oh, I'm excited about this for
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  several reasons. First of all, I've known you for
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  quite a while and I've always been impressed just you as a
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  person. First of all, second of all,
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  every where you've gone amazing to me.
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  In performances. You're absolutely phenomenal
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  coach but now and we're going to we're not going to get into
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  this. I want to wait until the end.
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  You're going to listen to the end of this broadcast to get to
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  the unbelievable thing that she's doing now.
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  But what you're doing today is unique and I love uniqueness so
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  I'm really excited to dive into that when we get there as well.
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  I hope you're ready to spill the beans and let us know what's
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  going on. Is that cool today?
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  Yeah, I'm excited. Awesome.
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  Well Brooke, let's get in our way back machine here at some
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  Point, assuming you were an athlete.
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  I think I do know that you were an athlete, but at some point
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  somewhere the act of coaching had to switch in your head, it
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  had to go from something that was done to you Brooke.
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  Go run this lift this, throw this to oh, wait a minute.
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  Wait, I could be a coach like that.
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  Actually could be a career of mine.
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  Where does coaching for track-and-field?
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  Begin for you. Yeah, now that's a great.
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  Great question. So when I was a kid, I was a
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  Athlete I played all different sports.
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  I was, you know, softball played Little League, baseball
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  football, I wrestled basketball, like you name, it volleyball,
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  golf, tennis, anything that I could do as a kid, I was
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  involved with. And so going through high school
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  and kind of narrowing in on my sports, I played volleyball
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  basketball and actually softball my first two years of high
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  school. So I didn't even start tracked
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  on my junior year outdoor season.
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  I was from Kansas indoor. Like really wasn't a thing, you
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  know, back then. So and going to college, I
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  didn't really know what I wanted to major in.
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  I wasn't sure, but I loved Athletics.
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  And that's kind of was like, well maybe I could, I'd want to
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  be a coach and so if I want to be a coach, I got you get an
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  education degree. So I can teach have, you know,
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  my schedule set up so I can coach as well.
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  So I went to college, you know, with that kind of mindset and
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  have a math, education degree and kind of it's funny because
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  when I went to, when I went to college, I kind of I felt Like,
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  you know, High School age is like a really impactful age for
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  people. And so that's why I want to, you
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  know, coach high school or so I can make an impact and then and
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  then I got went to college and my college coach has had a
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  significant impact on my life and suddenly realizing, oh, wow,
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  like you can still change and, you know, there's there's a lot
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  of influence there. And so, you know, and had a
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  great experience at Wichita State and and then my college
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  coaches, did you know, seem like they really loved what they were
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  doing and Enjoyed their careers. And and that's kind of, when I
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  had the thought of maybe, I want to be a college coach.
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  So let's pause on College, because you, you did have some
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  pretty special coaches there at Wichita State.
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  And I wanted to make sure we touched on that.
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  But before that go back to high school, I didn't know.
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  I mean, you're so track to me. I mean, you know, like your DNA
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  is track and field, I am shocked, you only did track your
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  last two years, what you did softball, which is there in the
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  track season at The, you know, the state's I've been in what
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  made you switch and what events did you kind of pour into?
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  Yeah, so when I was in Middle School, my like in Middle
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  School, the only sport sport. There wasn't a spring was track
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  and field. So I did track in the spring and
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  Bobo it wasn't an event for URLs yet.
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  Then, but my high school coach knew that it was going to be a
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  sport and so he kind of pushed me to it.
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  My dad was a fool to her my brother pull bolted.
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  So I would go pull up with the boys at practice and they let me
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  compete at some of the meats. And but I was really big into
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  softball. That was probably my favorite
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  sport grown up but I'm a left-handed middle infielder.
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  So from a small town, I could manage that, you know, but why
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  okay, educate mine on softball brain.
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  Why is that a bad thing? I would always think of
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  left-handers have an advantage like when when I'd like
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  volleyball. So a left-hander volleyball like
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  it's hard to block them because you're always used to a
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  right-hander. So you said left and I thought
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  oh we them as mean you were really really special.
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  Like you could do some things but you said it almost like a -
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  yeah. So if you're playing second base
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  or shortstop, Make the throw to first, you have to turn your
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  body all the way around to make the throw.
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  So it's like, basically non-existent thing that goes on
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  how does help, but but I was from a small town.
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  So I, you know, I was one of the better athlete.
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  So I was always in those positions typically, but to be
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  able to compete against the college athletes, it was going
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  to be a little bit more challenge.
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  So so I kind of knew that my, you know, my career and
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  softballs probably to come to end of in high school anyways,
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  and my teammates from volleyball and basketball, they were Back
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  athletes in and then I had a guy that moved into town.
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  Travis Travis Wiese, that was a pole vaulter in college and he
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  knew that I messed around a little bit with in middle school
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  and he kind of encouraged me to come out for track and I was
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  like, the only returning starter on the softball team.
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  My junior year going into my junior year or track teams going
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  to be good had a chance on statement which we ended up
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  doing that. So I went out for track and ran
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  the four by one, the four by four and pull bolted.
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  And so that's kind of where it began.
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  I went, I still played softball that summer.
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  Not really. Knowing I kind of felt like I
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  was a wannabe track stir. You know, those kids were really
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  into it and I didn't had no idea who, you know, I'm used to it
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  softball. Were eating two hot dogs on the
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  line, The Dugout, you know, between games and and you know,
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  I'm Travis very different, so sit outside, you know.
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  And then I started getting letters in the mail really
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  recruiting letters after my junior year and then I thought
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  well maybe track is what kind of my route is.
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  I know I want to be at the highest level I can be at in
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  there. I was a little barrel and And
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  volleyball. So, I had some opportunities
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  there, but, you know, track was where I could go to Vision one
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  at now, but we have to educate our listeners as well.
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  Some of them already understand it.
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  They know exactly where I'm going to go with this question
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  because, you know, it's 2023 and Brooke.
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  You are a young person. I'm the old man here at 40
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  almost 47. If in a about a
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  month-and-a-half, I'm 47 years old and that's still young you
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  said that girls didn't even do pole vault There's a lot of
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  people listening right now, they're like, oh, wait a minute,
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  we always did pole vault, you know, although everybody what
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  are you talking about an 1/8 like, you know, I'm talking to
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  an 80 year old was like back in the 1910s we don't have women's
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  pole vault. No no you didn't have women's
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  pole vault as a high schooler. Yeah.
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  Just start my freshman year in high school is when it started
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  in the state of Kansas. What year was that thousand?
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  I graduated 2004. First 2000.
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  That was yesterday. Yesterday, 2000, and we were
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  just getting girls. Pull, that's crazy in my mind.
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  And today in 2023, that is crazy.
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  And we forget that women's pole, vault, women steeple and women's
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  Hammer at least on the Olympic level, you know, we don't have a
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  hammer almost at all in the states outside of, you know,
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  doesn't start really till college, but they weren't even
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  Olympic events until like, I think it's 96, 2000 and 2004, I
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  think is what they kind of all came in and separate thinking
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  Olympics. That's just like in that crazy.
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  I think about you and your career that you've had kind of
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  do you know if you think about that and think oh yeah I was
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  like one of the first Girls pole, vaulters in the state of
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  Kansas. That's lunacy to me.
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  That's crazy. Wow, so what was it about?
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  You mentioned coach Willie's came in, he had pulled wilted
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  and in college, He also mentioned your dad and brother
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  had vaulted. So you kind of had some DNA for
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  faulty, even though you weren't air quotes here allowed to
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  evolve, then it was something we were all multi-sport athletes.
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  You know, my dad was a Allstate noseguard, he wrestled in
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  college and, you know, my brother played Baseball.
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  So Jack was I really like small portion of FR athletic careers,
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  you know but but it kind of planted that seed you know and
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  got me interested in it. So thankful for that did you
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  like I'm trying to put I think representation matters right?
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  I think of the you know the little boys around the land that
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  saw Jeff Hartwig Vault and we're like oh my I want to do that and
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  you know today maybe they're watching.
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  Mondo there's some eight-year-old seeing Mondo
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  going wait a minute like that kid.
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  Like me, I could be that kid. I could jump 6 meter that kid's
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  gonna jump, seven meters one day, who knows?
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  How did you? I know dad and brother vaulted,
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  but you didn't really have any other girls or women to look at
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  maybe 60 degree level just like the only the only vaulter in the
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  world. Right.
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  I remember watching, I remember watching Stacey to rely on TV
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  when I was the young girl and I remember her having an interview
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  and saying like if you want to do this sport do it, you know,
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  so I remember that, you know, but but for me for the most Like
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  I was just used to being around the boys, like that's what I was
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  a huge tomboy. That was just, that was where I,
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  where I was comfortable. That's what I was a part of I
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  was really competitive kid and that's kind of what I cleaned on
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  to. So it was, it wasn't a big deal
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  to me to be one of the only girls doing it.
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  As I say sounds like it didn't matter there was other girls or
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  not it's like oh I want to do this.
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  I'm going to go do it. You're right yeah it's cool.
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  That's awesome. Well so you had some choices
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  you. There were very few girl
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  vaulters for colleges to make women vaulters.
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  Out there. So you had probably some
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  choices. Why did you select Wichita
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  State? Yeah.
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  So I wanted to be at the division one level, you know, I
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  finally found a try to be the best I can be like, I want to
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  competing against the best was kind of my mentality as a kid.
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  And, and that was my best opportunity to be honest.
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  Like, I, you know, I know if you know Kansas State Arkansas, you
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  know, would have been kind of my ideal scenario, but they were
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  interested in. Thankfully, Steve ramble, the
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  head coach Wichita, State, saw me competing.
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  At a regional meet, you know, and Kansas and as a junior.
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  So I was brand, you know, I've been posting, you know, maybe
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  two months of my life and he and he actually saw me and said, and
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  that looks like Jenny Ashcroft who was our football coaches
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  time and with whose, we obviously have a huge
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  resemblance of each other and so he, you know, came over and said
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  hi, which I don't think was legal at the time, but he bumped
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  into me, he bumped into me, you know, that's kind of how it
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  began. And, and I mean I had no
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  concept. How blessed I was that.
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  He saw me and that, that staff recruited me and who Janine
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  Aftershock was, I had because I was still holding out and like I
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  wanted to be at the highest level possible and hoping that
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  Kansas state was interested. Even though they weren't, you
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  know, and excited, I didn't commit until you know, the
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  spring of my senior year. So something tells me that's
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  going to come into play later. On, in our story today, I am
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  curious for we get fully into Wichita State, you went to the
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  state meet in Kansas, right? Right.
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  I've been there as well. I used to, I don't know if you
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  do this. Not, so I coached over at Neosho
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  County, Chanute Kansas for a year.
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  So I recruited and lived in Kansas and Kansas, there's a,
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  every state meet a special because that's the highest level
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  there is, you know, for for, you know, 99% of the kids run track.
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  That's the highest they're gonna ever get in most, don't even get
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  to the state meet. There's a few states that just
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  do it special. There's a culture around it and
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  Kansas is one of them. It's hosted right there at
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  Wichita State and it's like it That V, it's one of the highest
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  attended State meets as well. What was that?
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  Like, I can't even imagine walking in, and there's tens of
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  thousands of people there to watch you fall.
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  Talking about 40,000 people, they do, they have six divisions
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  in Kansas and the state needs, everyone's at the same place,
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  the same time. So it's just an electric
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  atmosphere, you know, so it's pretty pretty awesome.
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  To be part of that. I mean, 40,000 you probably for
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  quite some time. I'm in your career didn't either
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  performed or coach in front of 40,000.
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  They probably took you on me. That's, that's a special thing.
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  Our sport ever have it again, so maybe I don't know.
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  Yeah, it's pretty phenomenal, but they do there.
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  What is it? Why.
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  I mean, you have six classes. I get that.
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  So there's a lot of kids there so there for a lot of families
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  but still 40 that. I mean, I would have told you
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  that's the whole population of Kansas.
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  So I'm shocked that we could all get into one Stadium.
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  Well, what else is there to do? Kansas, but going to attract me,
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  you know, I live there. And that is true.
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  Very, very true. So you go to Wichita State, he
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  become a math major, which, you know, for guy from Alabama,
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  that's pretty you like a that's basically a PhD in Alabama.
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  We don't do math very well down there, but you've got you
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  mentioned, Steve rainbolt and you know, coach bolt is one of
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  the most unique and I mean that in all positive manners
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  friendliest, you know that you said that, you know, you guys
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  bumped into each other. Others, a junior and he just
• 15:03
  said hi. That's of course.
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  That, of course, he did. I mean, it's just, he can't help
• 15:05
  but say hi and never met. A stranger type of person.
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  Tell me about your college experience with him and you've
• 15:12
  had some other. There's other great people there
• 15:15
  at Wichita, State you mentioned Jenny.
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  I mean, I don't know that I knew she was there at the at the time
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  with you. That's another special person.
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  Tell me about some of the coaches and how did they, you
• 15:26
  know, change you from an 18 year old girl to a 23 year, old woman
• 15:29
  who's ready to go out and tackle the world Yeah, you know, that
• 15:32
  staff is pretty amazing and unique in the sense that like
• 15:36
  they're all still there basically.
• 15:38
  You know, so you've got John Henson door for throws coach
• 15:41
  Don. Why's he came when I was an
• 15:43
  athlete there, he's still there. How do you roast was on staff?
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  When I got there he had their jumps coach still there, they've
• 15:50
  had a couple transitions you know, the distance coach.
• 15:52
  And then Pat Wilson, who took over after Jenny, left after my
• 15:56
  sophomore year, he was still on staff and now he actually has
• 16:00
  brain cancer. So he's battling that That.
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  So but if that were to happen, I mean, for wrangled to keep that
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  staff together at the mid-major level, just shows you how
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  impressive he is, and how loyal they are to him.
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  And I mean, it's just a phenomenal situation there.
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  You know, because good? No, no, that's a good point that
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  you brought up there about because we've had conversations
• 16:21
  about coaches and how long that, you know, the tenure at a
• 16:25
  certain school. And honestly, we had a great
• 16:28
  conversation with boo schexnayder on the podcast.
• 16:30
  Talking about that, a little Glee.
• 16:32
  And he was very Pro that in the sense of if especially in the
• 16:35
  younger ages and stages of your career, if you have an
• 16:38
  opportunity to move on somewhere that's going to pay you more,
• 16:40
  take it because we don't pay our coaches enough and you're going
• 16:43
  to get to an agent stage one day where you want to retire and if
• 16:46
  you didn't do the right things and get paid the right steps
• 16:48
  along the way you aren't going to be able to retire.
• 16:51
  So he brought just a really unique perspective to that.
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  But you really brought that up about rainbow the and he is a
• 16:57
  special person and most because must be phenomenal person to
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  work for because yeah his His staff tenure is very strong.
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  Yeah, yeah. It's pretty crazy.
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  And a lot of that's, you know, it's him that, you know, the
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  three coaches. I just mentioned that have been
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  there for over 15 years. They were all his athletes, mmm,
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  John, John wise, and John Henson door for both his athletes at
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  Kent State when he was there. And then how do you roast was a
• 17:23
  shocker when she was an athlete, which is 8.
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  So yeah, now he just does a great job building relationships
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  and you know, is empowering powers.
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  Ball and makes them feel valuable and encourages them.
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  And, you know, you kind of feel like when you're on that guy you
• 17:37
  feel like you can conquer the world, you know how to do.
• 17:40
  Yeah I feel I can do everything except for golf like 100 holes
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  in a row or whatever he does for his birthday and of course he
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  does that mean that if anybody was going to do it it would be
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  bolt. Exactly exactly.
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  So we talked about this a little bit before we hit the record
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  button we were talking about representation, we're talking
• 17:58
  about women in coaching and women is athletes.
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  Now you got to which Fatah State and you had Ginny Ashcroft.
• 18:04
  Another just phenomenal human being shame on me for not having
• 18:07
  her on the podcast yet to date. We're going to, you know, I've
• 18:10
  gotta catch em all. So this is 200.
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  We're getting we're going to get there.
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  If you're gonna have a thousand someone has to be the thousandth
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  of guest. Okay, we're going to get there,
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  did that? I guess I'm asked this.
• 18:21
  Awkwardly did that mean anything to you?
• 18:23
  That's an awkward way of asking the question.
• 18:25
  I hope you maybe get the dressed up.
• 18:26
  Yeah, yeah. Now I think she just, you know,
• 18:30
  it's interesting because I think you know, we grow up in our
• 18:33
  environment and you have these biases, you know, and I had, I
• 18:37
  had great female to female coaches in high school, my
• 18:39
  volleyball, coach, and basketball coach for really
• 18:41
  influential and who I was and developing me as an athlete and
• 18:45
  as a person, and then going to Wichita State, and having Jenny
• 18:48
  Ashcroft, you know, pour into me for two years and and, but I
• 18:51
  think I still had a bias of Not knowing if female coaches were
• 18:58
  good at what they did because there just aren't many out
• 19:00
  there. You know, I mean, I remember
• 19:01
  being a young coach in at can't say I'd go to meet and if there
• 19:05
  was another female coach in my first thought, in my mind, as I
• 19:09
  don't know if they know what they're doing, you know?
• 19:11
  And here I am, I've had these people coaches, that were
• 19:14
  awesome, right? I'm a female coach tips and I'm
• 19:17
  arrogant, like, you know, that you grow up with, you know, no,
• 19:24
  they impact how you think about things, you know.
• 19:27
  And that's why, you know, having that representation talking
• 19:29
  about those things is important. You know?
• 19:32
  I mean, I hate that I had said that but that's the reality of
• 19:34
  it. Yeah.
• 19:36
  I was where I was at this outside even having those great,
• 19:39
  you know, influences, that directly impacted me.
• 19:41
  Yeah, well, you overcame it because I also thought I was
• 19:44
  better than every other coach and you see, I haven't coached
• 19:46
  in 18 years now. So they quickly taught me who
• 19:50
  really was the good coaches and I got out.
• 19:51
  So you've handle it much, much better.
• 19:55
  So you go through, did you do I know you vaulted?
• 19:57
  It Wichita State. Did you do any other events?
• 20:00
  I don't know if I thought of you as a multi for some reason.
• 20:02
  But that may be the javelin just because our conferences, but I
• 20:07
  really thought I was older, I wasn't able to do anything else.
• 20:10
  Yeah, I would love to be able time, but yeah, I could have
• 20:13
  seen that if that's it was like, I was like, I didn't have the
• 20:17
  talent to back it up. I love it.
• 20:19
  I love it. So what was the first step out
• 20:22
  of college? You get a math degree.
• 20:24
  You thought about coaching high school but you also have and I
• 20:27
  have said this exact same quote broke.
• 20:29
  So it's a little Eerie that you said the exact same quote.
• 20:32
  I did. If I want to be the best, I have
• 20:34
  to beat the best. That was my whole coaching
• 20:36
  career. I wanted to I was like, man, I
• 20:38
  want to be the best Sprint's hurdles jumps coach in the
• 20:41
  world. Well, then you better get to the
• 20:43
  SEC. And so my whole mission was to
• 20:45
  get there and then I got there, I was like, who, who is tough?
• 20:47
  Tough tough tough division. This is something I got out.
• 20:52
  So tells you what the hell? Tough I really So did you what
• 20:56
  was your first step? Did you go to Coach high school?
• 20:58
  Did you go straight into college coaching?
• 21:00
  Would you do? Well, I was super fortunate.
• 21:02
  So, Ashcroft went Oregon. Why I was an athlete and I had
• 21:07
  three more years of which 26 are registered to a year.
• 21:09
  And I kind of was like, hey I think college coaching might be
• 21:12
  what I want to do. I wanted to continue training at
• 21:16
  finished College jumping about 39 you know which at then was
• 21:19
  decent, you know? And so, Dance feel is out of
• 21:25
  Oregon and then still and he, you know, allowed me to be able
• 21:30
  to come out there and be a volunteer coach Ben when Anna
• 21:32
  was a head coach and continue to train.
• 21:35
  They had a really high level Poulter, most a gurgles who end
• 21:37
  up being a national champion on there, you know, and they, you
• 21:41
  know, wanted someone else to train with her as well and
• 21:44
  Jordan Orosco is on the team as well.
• 21:46
  She, you know, had to kind of battle some injuries, so it
• 21:48
  wasn't quite able to do everything that Melissa could so
• 21:51
  that kind of got my foot in the door of, hey, well, if you want
• 21:53
  to be called She come out here and train, you know, get put
• 21:57
  organ on your resume and that would be a great kind of step
• 22:01
  and kind of figure out. This is really what you want to
• 22:03
  do or not. What was your connection?
• 22:05
  There was Jenny because she went there.
• 22:07
  Yes, yes, it's people like an action.
• 22:09
  Yeah, so she went, she coach me that year and then actually
• 22:12
  before I even got there, Dan still left for the head coaching
• 22:15
  job at Northern Iowa and then Harry Marriott.
• 22:19
  He hired on that fall to coach Ashton Breanna multi-zone high
• 22:23
  jump. So So, that was huge.
• 22:25
  So I got to spend a whole year fall on Harry mayor around with
• 22:28
  a video camera and oh, wow. So you're on the team and so it
• 22:35
  was yeah, it was great. That's a great place to put a
• 22:38
  plug here. I just read Harry's book view
• 22:42
  from the passenger seat. I think is what he calls it.
• 22:45
  If you haven't read that, if if you're a multi coach it's a it's
• 22:49
  a requirement. You have to have it in your
• 22:50
  library. But honestly, to the point here
• 22:53
  with Tom of With Brooke talking about pole-vaulting, things like
• 22:55
  that. If you're a coach you just you
• 22:57
  have to read this book. Harry did a phenomenal job if
• 23:00
  you don't know who Harry Marius, I think this is where my old,
• 23:03
  man. You know, learn your history but
• 23:06
  he's also been on the podcast that we did a three parter with
• 23:09
  him because he's just so not. I mean you that doesn't surprise
• 23:11
  you broke, right? I mean, you know, Harry
• 23:12
  intimately now that I know that you thought around with a video
• 23:15
  camera, which that is gosh, you can't pay for that education,
• 23:17
  honestly. But go check out his book and
• 23:20
  get on Amazon. It's phenomenal.
• 23:22
  Well, well worth the the Reid, he's phenomenal and I'm a human
• 23:26
  being. So you go to Oregon.
• 23:28
  First of all, holy cow, what a special time, you know, Harry,
• 23:31
  and I have talked about this time of with the multis and with
• 23:34
  brie and Ashton but just everything else going on as
• 23:38
  well. It wasn't, I mean, Bree and
• 23:39
  Ashton got a lot of the pub for obvious reasons, but there are
• 23:42
  other great athletes other great coaches there as well.
• 23:46
  And you find yourself vaulting and following Harry and you know
• 23:51
  your old junior year old college coaches there.
• 23:54
  That had to be kind of a cool Time of Your Life.
• 23:58
  Yeah, it was, it was an awesome experience.
• 24:00
  I learned a lot and a lot. And then let me sit in on their
• 24:04
  weekly staff meeting. So, just being able to do that
• 24:06
  was great, you know, and, you know, obviously just being in
• 24:10
  that high-caliber atmosphere and the resources that they had and
• 24:15
  just how they operated, you know, and just, you know, Vince
• 24:18
  such a detailed person with a big picture mindset, you know,
• 24:24
  and Just seeing just what he how he processed things and thought
• 24:28
  through things. And but but it was you know it
• 24:31
  was they have a lot of stakeholders that organ, you
• 24:33
  know. So there's a lot of people to
• 24:34
  keep happy and that that program and so it was interesting just
• 24:37
  to kind of see those things as well and but yeah.
• 24:41
  But here I mean Harry was awesome.
• 24:43
  I mean I was it was, it was just and he's, you know, huge Mentor
• 24:47
  mind still and always, you know, if I have video of a kid on, you
• 24:51
  know, have an issue and shotput or something, I'll shoot off to
• 24:53
  him and he'll give me purse. Denver, you know, so it's been
• 24:57
  fun to keep in touch with him. My favorite thing about Harry,
• 25:01
  you know, his coaching is second to none.
• 25:02
  I mean, especially in the combined, which means like all
• 25:05
  of them, right? I mean, he's just unbelievable.
• 25:07
  He is one of the most humblest people humblest coaches I've
• 25:13
  ever met. When I first met him, I my
• 25:16
  former boss now. Retired Fred Dixon, who was on
• 25:18
  the 76th and on The A Team that didn't go, so was coached by
• 25:23
  Harry and he introduced me to hurry when he got to Oregon and
• 25:26
  everything. And you know the first time I
• 25:28
  met him, he very first time and he's like oh so you know how
• 25:31
  long you been a Gil? Would you do before?
• 25:33
  And as I go so that's college coach and Coach.
• 25:35
  It Mississippi. Stay.
• 25:36
  Oh, would you coach? I was like, yeah, I'm sprinting
• 25:37
  hurdles. Hurdles are my favorite.
• 25:39
  Hey, so when you're coaching hurlers, do you do did it to
• 25:41
  die? And what would you do?
• 25:42
  If this? And I'm like, hey, you tell me
• 25:46
  like you're the expert here and here's our, oh no, I want to
• 25:48
  know what you did and I saw him do that repeatedly with other
• 25:51
  Vault coaches, other shot, coaches other.
• 25:54
  Sprint coaches. He always there was always
• 25:57
  something for him to learn from someone else.
• 26:00
  It was amazing. There was never like, I think
• 26:03
  it's extreme, it's impossible to have zero ego but man, did he
• 26:08
  come close when it comes to coaching?
• 26:12
  I mean, I can only imagine even you as this fresh from college,
• 26:17
  you know, 13-9 voluntary. Probably like, hey, so how are
• 26:20
  you coach? How did you do?
• 26:21
  Did he ask you? I mean, it's kind of his thing.
• 26:24
  Yeah, he was crazy that way and you know, we were having a
• 26:29
  conversation once and he talked about, you know, he's like
• 26:31
  sometimes I'm in practice and I don't have the solution.
• 26:34
  Yes, Lee wants but I'll tell him.
• 26:36
  I'm going to figure it out and next, couple days, I'm gonna get
• 26:38
  back to you, you know. So here's this guy on the best
• 26:40
  coach in the world and to have that humbleness, like you said,
• 26:44
  tell me a fan. Hey, I don't know, but I'll
• 26:46
  figure it out. I think that was a huge lesson
• 26:49
  for me. You know, in Relentless.
• 26:51
  And finding out that answer, there's many many of his
• 26:53
  athletes who I've gotten three am emails because he had finally
• 26:57
  figured it out had come to him. All the experience of all the
• 27:00
  people he's talked to him at 2:30 in the morning he woke up
• 27:02
  would start writing and start emailing Relentless that man
• 27:06
  still is to this day. That's what I love about him.
• 27:08
  Man, gosh love him to death. So what now now you mentioned
• 27:13
  then love in. By the way, I'm good friends
• 27:15
  with vin have worked a lot with then when it Oregon and now at
• 27:18
  Virginia and other places but he is you I think you said it
• 27:23
  really well, you know. Attention to detail, like no
• 27:26
  one's business but always with the big picture in mind.
• 27:30
  That's really hard. Some of us think we can do both.
• 27:33
  Some of us are really attention to detail people and some of us
• 27:35
  are Big Picture People to do both at a high level.
• 27:38
  That's a rare person and then is one of those people.
• 27:42
  I can only imagine not having worked for then.
• 27:46
  As your sit in those meetings, like it might have been like a
• 27:50
  fork in the road of like, oh yeah.
• 27:53
  Mmm. Don't want to be.
• 27:54
  This is college coaching. Yeah, I can't handle this.
• 27:58
  This is not my forte or it may be.
• 28:00
  This is exactly the opposite. What happened to you is like oh
• 28:04
  oh, like this, like track is not just running in a circle.
• 28:07
  Like there's a lot that goes into it and obviously at Oregon
• 28:10
  a lot goes into it with all the events and things that they do,
• 28:14
  and of course, the athletes at cetera.
• 28:16
  How was that experience for you? As far as like, we did it in
• 28:19
  bold, in you, to be a track coach, a college track coach, or
• 28:22
  did you start thinking like, you know, saw Apollo school.
• 28:24
  Maybe I can go coach softball. Yeah, yeah.
• 28:27
  Now I definitely left, you know, excited about it, you know?
• 28:30
  And but there's also things, like I said, there's things that
• 28:33
  that, that level that are challenging, right?
• 28:35
  And there's signs that maybe the you don't feel like that the
• 28:38
  athletes best interest can always be taken care of because
• 28:41
  you have all these other things to shuffle and manage as well.
• 28:45
  So but I gave me perspective on that, you know, and watched how
• 28:48
  different coaches manage those things.
• 28:50
  Lance deal was on the staff out there too.
• 28:52
  So that was you know, to get to know.
• 28:54
  It was great. And so there was I've been like
• 28:57
  super blessed. The people that I've got to know
• 28:59
  on the journey that I've been on another Gil podcast Along, by
• 29:03
  the way, lansdale's been on the show to yeah, he was fun.
• 29:06
  Shocker. Yeah.
• 29:09
  So how did you deal with your Kansas kid?
• 29:13
  I'm assuming you're a small, small-town, Kansas kid, because
• 29:18
  that's all there is in Kansas and you go to Eugene, Oregon.
• 29:22
  You're a volunteer coach, you're jumping That's fun and all, but
• 29:25
  they're still like me. And I just did four years, five
• 29:27
  years of college. I've got a degree, like, I'd
• 29:30
  like to have a job. I'd like to get paid to do this.
• 29:33
  How are you adjusting to being away from home?
• 29:35
  Volunteer coaching. I know how that is.
• 29:37
  That's a, that's a tough, tough gig.
• 29:40
  Yeah, I know. It's interesting.
• 29:40
  Like I was, I was the kid that I went to college 30 minutes from
• 29:43
  my hometown, and I was homesick 30 minutes for my hometown.
• 29:47
  You know, like I struggled transitioning to college and I
• 29:51
  was really shy, very quiet. So be down with college and move
• 29:56
  across the country. It was a pretty big step and you
• 29:58
  know, like my growth and who I had me, come through college,
• 30:01
  you know. So but so it was it was fine.
• 30:04
  I was so wrapped up in what I was doing and I was tutoring
• 30:08
  math to try to make ends meet. I was working as a banquet
• 30:11
  server at the Hilton out there and, you know, so just trying to
• 30:16
  do whatever I could. And well, I mean, I was
• 30:17
  fortunate that I had. I graduated college without any
• 30:20
  student loans, I had help from family, I, you know, earned some
• 30:23
  scholarship Money as I was there and and if I hadn't done that
• 30:27
  and I would have went right into teaching, you know, I think
• 30:30
  that's something that we don't talk about enough is that, you
• 30:32
  know, the more / / Le G are financially, the easier it is to
• 30:35
  get into coaching, you know and not going to make money in the
• 30:39
  beginning and so I had enough Savings in my account to go out
• 30:42
  there and be fine kind of blowing through it and make you
• 30:45
  know make some money. I lived in an office of this
• 30:48
  house that, you know, five people, you know don't have a
• 30:51
  closet and, you know, just kind of made it work and I didn't.
• 30:54
  About money, you know, at the time at all, you know, it's just
• 30:56
  like, I'm just gonna survive this and I drain my account of
• 30:59
  doing my account and then I'll know if that's what I want to do
• 31:01
  with my life. But I was, but I always knew if
• 31:04
  things get bad, I have a place to go.
• 31:06
  I'm always gonna have food on my table, right?
• 31:08
  Like I was situation, so, you know, that's interesting,
• 31:11
  Brooke, you know, one of the things that I enjoy is the host
• 31:15
  here is in these two hundred-plus conversations that
• 31:18
  I've had over the past three to four years now, lots of great
• 31:22
  topics. Get brought up You know, I have
• 31:24
  strong opinion about things with track and field and I interview
• 31:27
  people with strong opinions about track and field, but
• 31:29
  they're still topics that come up on my.
• 31:31
  Oh, I never thought of that and you just said something that I
• 31:34
  have never thought about. I'm going to, I'm going to
• 31:37
  repeat it. You correct me where I misspoke
• 31:40
  in your, I don't want to speak for you here.
• 31:42
  You said we don't talk about this.
• 31:43
  A lot about the privilege of coaching track and field that
• 31:48
  the less debt that we have say. I'm really screwing up
• 31:51
  everything. You said, basically you're
• 31:52
  saying it's a lot easier. Easier to coach.
• 31:54
  If you come out of college with no debt or you have family
• 31:57
  backing, you things like that because a lot of opportunity to
• 32:00
  get into track is through volunteering mean you don't get
• 32:03
  paid that's an interesting topic about people getting into
• 32:08
  coaching track and field. Yeah, that's reality.
• 32:13
  Yeah. And I wonder if I've never
• 32:16
  thought about that, because I also came out of college with no
• 32:19
  student loan debt. I actually student coach.
• 32:22
  So, I had all my stuff paid for because I was coaching.
• 32:25
  I was, you think you weren't a good enough to have to lie to be
• 32:28
  a multi? I wasn't a good enough athlete.
• 32:29
  Okay, so I just charged with you, they say if you can't, you
• 32:33
  can't do you teach? Well, I was a pretty good
• 32:35
  teacher because I really couldn't do so.
• 32:38
  But yeah, I was even like I spent the year volunteering at
• 32:42
  organ and I went back home for the summer, trying to figure out
• 32:45
  Okay, what's my next step? Fine for jobs and I got offered
• 32:49
  a teaching job at my high school and that paid and I didn't I
• 32:54
  wasn't interested in it, but they talked me the interviewing.
• 32:57
  And I was like, I'll be good experience and you know to be a
• 32:59
  teacher in small-town Kansas, I was going to make forty two
• 33:02
  thousand dollars, fifteen years ago, you know.
• 33:07
  You'll be rich. Yeah was twenty four thousand
• 33:09
  dollars a year and I felt blessed that was my situation.
• 33:12
  Yep. And because tuition was free as
• 33:14
  a full-time employee. He was like a great GA position,
• 33:17
  you know. And so you know so even that
• 33:20
  right like it's almost double the pay to teach as in to go
• 33:24
  into coaching. All right?
• 33:26
  And we all talk about teachers don't make any money you know,
• 33:28
  right? Yeah.
• 33:29
  That's super I'm going to chew on that one for all that that
• 33:32
  really hit me broke. Honestly, I never thought about
• 33:35
  that aspect of because I'm a very much against volunteer
• 33:38
  coaches. I just damp and, you know, as a
• 33:41
  track coach Advocate as someone who advocates for track coaches
• 33:44
  and I want all of of us to get paid more.
• 33:46
  I want the guys and gals that, you know, get paid a ton, I
• 33:49
  won't name names. But, you know, they make a lot
• 33:51
  of money. I want them to make even more
• 33:53
  honestly, because I want the first year track coach to make a
• 33:57
  healthy little. I want them to be able to live
• 34:00
  it, not live, in a, an office with five other people, you
• 34:04
  know, I just, I'm just Horton, lie against volunteer coach and
• 34:07
  I understand why it is and why people do it.
• 34:09
  And, in today's world, I just want to abolish that by giving
• 34:13
  more paid positions and higher-paid positions Since out
• 34:16
  there. So I've never thought about,
• 34:18
  well, why are there so many volunteer positions out there?
• 34:21
  And why are, why are some people able to do that and other people
• 34:24
  aren't? And you put a whole new spin on
• 34:26
  that one. Broke that really that guy that
• 34:28
  hit me, that was really good. Okay, so how long were you at
• 34:32
  Oregon? And where'd you go next you
• 34:34
  obviously interviewed back home. What time did you go to?
• 34:37
  If you don't mind me asking in Kansas El Dorado.
• 34:39
  So right now. Well Dorado yeah.
• 34:41
  Yeah. But Boulder County College.
• 34:43
  Yeah, yeah. Okay.
• 34:43
  That's how I knew but Eldorado. Yeah.
• 34:45
  Very cool, right? Love that.
• 34:47
  You were homesick going to Wichita, that cracks me up.
• 34:51
  I can't imagine you in Oregon now that you said that but but
• 34:55
  did you come back home? Then do you said you interviewed
• 34:57
  for teaching Diamondback? I moved back home after the
• 34:59
  season ended just didn't really know what my next step was.
• 35:03
  I put on a street Global competition in my hometown and
• 35:06
  that was going to. That was my third year, we were
• 35:08
  going to host it and so I went back, get ready for that, which
• 35:12
  is ton of work. Yep.
• 35:16
  And didn't, you know, I had a couple thoughts of coaching
• 35:20
  opportunities, but none of them kind of panned out.
• 35:22
  And I was actually rainbow had agreed to in see our street
• 35:26
  fault. And so he came over to it.
• 35:30
  We had I did it for three years, two thousand, three years.
• 35:32
  The elite section got rained out stormed out and so we're sitting
• 35:37
  in his car when it's down. Pouring, you know, this pit set
• 35:40
  up the runway set up. Yeah, I mean, you know, the
• 35:43
  whole deal, all this work, you know, I'm like, oh my gosh can't
• 35:45
  was happening again, you know? And, and he told me, hey, like
• 35:50
  there's a, there's a job at Kent State Bill Lawson.
• 35:53
  One of my buddies. His head coach there and you're
• 35:56
  one of the top candidates for the job.
• 35:57
  I told him about you, and He's interested.
• 36:00
  You're like, I don't either work.
• 36:01
  Kent is what do you mean the top candidates?
• 36:04
  And I was a little bit familiar with can't stay because that's
• 36:06
  for rainbow came from, you know, like you know, and the staff was
• 36:09
  there so. And but I, you know I on that
• 36:13
  Friday or Thursday before that I had agreed to interview with my
• 36:16
  high school for the math position and so that was like a
• 36:20
  Saturday night and so That next day.
• 36:24
  Bill, awesome calls me for the first time to talked about the
• 36:27
  job. And I told him, hey, I'm
• 36:28
  interviewing for this job tomorrow.
• 36:30
  Like, I don't really want to teach all the coach, but I'm,
• 36:32
  you know, I'm gonna go do this and I interviewed on Monday, and
• 36:37
  they offered me the job, but I had like three hours to take it,
• 36:41
  you know? And I felt good about the Kent
• 36:43
  State situation, but I didn't know if I was gonna get the job
• 36:45
  or not. I got I have one conversation
• 36:47
  with him and so, I decided, you know, I can always be a teacher.
• 36:52
  So, I And the job down and we're just hoping that the Kent State,
• 36:56
  you know, deal was going to work out.
• 36:58
  And luckily it did and man this story could have been a lot
• 37:01
  different. I'd call them laws right now.
• 37:04
  Like dude it's for kids wife. So you go to Kent State
• 37:10
  University with Bill Lawson another just deeply good friend.
• 37:16
  I love laws. In fact, I think I've told this
• 37:19
  story before but I interviewed for the Sprint Turtles job at
• 37:24
  Oregon with Martin Smith, they hired some guy named Steve still
• 37:28
  be who won like, I don't know, 10 national championships.
• 37:31
  I don't know why I didn't get the job, but after the interview
• 37:35
  I was when I was in Kansas Bill Lawson calls me and says, hey, I
• 37:39
  just want to get to know you a little bit better.
• 37:40
  You're 25 years old, just had an interview for, you know, the
• 37:43
  most coveted assistant job in this country and just had a
• 37:46
  great conversation with them and asked him for advice.
• 37:49
  I had signed what I thought was the number one recruiting class
• 37:52
  in the nation. No matter what division, I had
• 37:54
  some bad. Some big boys and girls coming
• 37:56
  into Chanute Kansas, but Sue parks that at Ball.
• 38:01
  State had said, hey, if you don't get the organ job, I'll
• 38:05
  hire you hear my assistant went and took over Western Michigan.
• 38:08
  And so I was like, okay, back to division 1 or coach some amazing
• 38:12
  kids in the middle of nowhere. She knew Kansas and Lawson just
• 38:16
  gave me just really good advice and change the trajectory of my
• 38:21
  life and I went on to Ball State and then I hit the ultimate
• 38:24
  goal. I went, you know, got to
• 38:25
  Mississippi State after a couple years of Ball State.
• 38:27
  So I have just honestly a huge place in my heart for Bill lost
• 38:31
  and I can only imagine that first conversation you had with
• 38:33
  him because he is, who he is on the first call and the hundredth
• 38:35
  call, you had to be like, oh man, this is really what I want
• 38:39
  to get into. Not everyone can handle this
• 38:45
  now. He was awesome.
• 38:46
  You know, I was really fortunate, you know, obviously,
• 38:49
  he ended up offering me the job and I moved out to till And I
• 38:53
  actually the position was a director of operations, and then
• 38:57
  to assist him with the pole vault in the multis, so, it
• 39:01
  wasn't even really a. I mean, it was a coaching job
• 39:04
  and not really, but it was like, you know, my mentors was like, I
• 39:07
  would do it, get your foot in the door.
• 39:09
  And, and after being there for about an hour, we had practice
• 39:15
  for maybe a week or two, once practice started.
• 39:17
  And Lawson said, I think you're ready to take over to pull
• 39:20
  Boulders. Yes, you know.
• 39:22
  So so now, Now I have an uncontrollable tears and I coach
• 39:25
  to the Catholics in the pool and then still kind of assistant
• 39:28
  him, something them all ties with the other events, but but I
• 39:31
  did all the director of operations responsibilities.
• 39:34
  He had a little bit like he schedule hotel room set out to
• 39:36
  do that. You know, that stuff was gone,
• 39:38
  but but it was a lot. I mean, it was crazy hours doing
• 39:43
  everything that way and, you know, coaching and trying to do
• 39:47
  my best for these kids and your new.
• 39:49
  So you don't know anything. You don't know who questions to,
• 39:51
  you know. But it was great.
• 39:54
  I mean being in the director of operations role was I learned so
• 39:57
  much about just how things work and how hard that job is and and
• 40:01
  how impactful that job can be you know if you have a really
• 40:04
  good director of operations, it's a kind of a glue for the
• 40:06
  program and it can be they can have a huge influence, you know.
• 40:11
  And so that was, you know, great experience.
• 40:14
  Luckily I was there for three years, as time went on each
• 40:17
  year. He kind of took a little bit but
• 40:18
  the administrative stuff off my plate and gave me a little bit
• 40:21
  more coaching responsibilities. So yeah.
• 40:24
  And you know, we talked about privilege earlier, you know,
• 40:27
  programs that can have a Deo, they're a little bit better off
• 40:31
  than those who don't and you had to be around this time.
• 40:34
  You know when he's take talk about track director of Ops you
• 40:38
  know I think of Andrea and I think of Jess Jessica Jess Jess.
• 40:44
  Just riding in a couple others who kind of like in my mind you
• 40:48
  know from the outside looking in revolutionize, like oh this
• 40:51
  isn't just some I'm straight out of college kid that, you know,
• 40:55
  push paperwork on it's like oh no this is a person who helps
• 40:58
  run that program so that you can focus on coaching in recruiting
• 41:03
  but at that time because we're now probably around 05 06.
• 41:07
  When you get to Kent and I graduate high school before know
• 41:11
  certain 10, 11 12. Yeah, but that's still who Andre
• 41:18
  was an acronym. Yes.
• 41:19
  Yes. Okay, good.
• 41:20
  That's why I was so you had to be one of the Kind of first
• 41:24
  Dio's out there, there are a few now, there, you know, somebody's
• 41:28
  gonna yell at me cuz I'm gonna say now everybody has one.
• 41:30
  I know not. Everybody has won the majority
• 41:31
  of people don't have one. I understand that, but there's
• 41:34
  certainly much more common today in 2023 than they were in 2011
• 41:38
  2012. I don't know that I realized you
• 41:40
  were kind of started out as a deal on that side of things
• 41:43
  while coaching as well. That's interesting.
• 41:46
  That's the female token role right to get started?
• 41:50
  No, I don't know. They might be you tell me.
• 41:53
  I'm not gonna use my male privilege right there.
• 41:57
  That's a challenge, right? That's a challenge for coaching.
• 42:00
  Sometimes it's like to get, you know, they want a female and
• 42:02
  their staff. They want that representation,
• 42:04
  but it's like, are you gonna have a responsibility to really?
• 42:06
  Let people know you can coach, you know what?
• 42:09
  Okay, you brought it up. So let's go in there now, a
• 42:11
  little bit here. Why, you know, when I look at
• 42:15
  know we're going to wait because it's part of your story as well.
• 42:17
  So let's say we are going to talk about that though.
• 42:19
  Let's make sure it. Don't let me forget, broke, I'll
• 42:21
  end up forgetting to talk about things that's important.
• 42:24
  What you said there and to unpack that and, you know, maybe
• 42:26
  there's way to make chain. Maybe we change someone's mind.
• 42:29
  Who thinks that way? And says, oh man, you know,
• 42:31
  they're actually right. Like, why aren't I hiring female
• 42:35
  to just coach? Like, you know, why art?
• 42:37
  So, let's we'll make sure we talk about that.
• 42:39
  So, how long you were you at the Kent State?
• 42:43
  So, I coach to Year's Eve ball State's.
• 42:44
  I was in that conference and that is a really to me and, you
• 42:47
  know, it's because I was there, but it does special conference.
• 42:51
  I mean, there are some just grinders Hard-working coaches
• 42:54
  hard-working athletes for this. Quote-unquote mid major
• 42:58
  conference man. There's plenty of all Americans
• 43:00
  that come out. You got a coach.
• 43:02
  If you're going to be in that conference, that's not a
• 43:03
  conference. You just skate around.
• 43:05
  How did you enjoy coaching against some just amazing people
• 43:09
  in that conference? Yeah.
• 43:10
  No, it was great, you know, Dennis Mitchell's at Akron, you
• 43:13
  know. So I have a vault, you know,
• 43:14
  some compete against him and also it was a really good
• 43:19
  experience. There's so many great coaches
• 43:20
  that come out of the Mac, you know, it's just, you know, Seems
• 43:23
  like a typical route for most, so that's what Nathan, Nathan
• 43:28
  finger was on staff. He's with rose coach.
• 43:30
  Then now, the head, you know, their associate head coach,
• 43:34
  that's at Kent State. Now, Michael show, ever was one
• 43:36
  of the Catholics on the team that I got a coach.
• 43:39
  So, you know, those roots go deep, you know, at a school like
• 43:43
  that. So I loved it.
• 43:45
  There was an awesome, you know, at that level you have so many
• 43:48
  young assistant coaches, you know.
• 43:50
  So and you don't have all these facilities.
• 43:53
  He's just spread out all over like a power 5 school.
• 43:56
  So all the different coaches aren't where our offices are up
• 44:00
  and down the same hallway. You know.
• 44:01
  So you got to know the field hockey coaches and the golf
• 44:03
  coach and, you know, so it's kind of unique that way compared
• 44:06
  to some of the other experiences.
• 44:09
  You know, I was about to ask you and I still am.
• 44:12
  Like, what did you learn working with Bill?
• 44:15
  Lawson because he's a little bit of I don't know that he gets to
• 44:19
  do that. He deserves meeting the at not
• 44:22
  only athletes that he's put out, but just the influence that he
• 44:25
  has had positively in our Sport and with other coaches.
• 44:28
  But then I started thinking like, oh man, well, you also
• 44:31
  worked under, you know, Jenny and Harry like up to that.
• 44:35
  This is a very, you know, we're still very young in your journey
• 44:37
  here, but you have really hit rainbolt included here.
• 44:41
  You had some really impactful people in your life up to this
• 44:44
  point right here. I mean, like, not just like, oh,
• 44:46
  big people, but I'm talking about like, Some people would
• 44:49
  have a lot of these guys and gals on their Mount Rushmore.
• 44:51
  I mean these are hugely impactful.
• 44:53
  People, are you at this age in stage where you are?
• 44:58
  There can't even after 23 years. There, do you have any sense of
• 45:02
  like, oh, like this is pretty special.
• 45:05
  Like I've had some pretty special people in my life or do
• 45:07
  you still think like okay I'm just Journey along you know,
• 45:09
  they'll be the next head coach. I work for maybe I'll be the
• 45:11
  head coach one day. Do you get a sense of like who
• 45:13
  you're actually working with during this again short time of
• 45:17
  your career? Yeah.
• 45:18
  Yeah, yeah. Now I don't know if I don't
• 45:20
  think I really grasp that Foley, you know, it's hard perspective.
• 45:24
  But but I knew I definitely have some of them are really special
• 45:27
  people you know. But but you know what?
• 45:31
  When the metal and that's just kind of there all along your
• 45:33
  journey just becomes a norm you know.
• 45:35
  Yeah. Yeah the norm of having people
• 45:37
  like Harry Mayor, Bill Lawson and Steve ring, will ya?
• 45:41
  Sure. He's everybody has those same
• 45:43
  mentors touching your life. Yeah, I get it, I get expensive.
• 45:46
  So what how long you said three years that can state?
• 45:48
  And where to next and why. So Del Cowper called from
• 45:53
  University of Louisville. He actually tried to hire Jenny
• 45:55
  Ashcroft there, and she wasn't interested in a job with where
• 45:58
  she was out of time. And luckily, she recommended me.
• 46:02
  And yeah, so he called and they were they weren't in the ACC yet
• 46:07
  they were. But they knew they were going to
• 46:08
  make that move. We went Big East and they're
• 46:11
  going to be American four years in the ACC or they see.
• 46:14
  So, so it was, you know, it was a no-brainer career-wise.
• 46:18
  You know, to make that move, you know, financially gone into a
• 46:21
  power five conference and it was closer to home, you know, there
• 46:25
  can't was, you know, 15 16 hours to Kansas Louisville's about 10.
• 46:30
  So maybe now you can drive home in a day, you know, citizen is
• 46:34
  at record right there. It's like, yeah, it's I say five
• 46:36
  hours, I'm good. That's how World right?
• 46:39
  So so yeah, not you know, and it was, it was great.
• 46:43
  It was yeah, I had a great I was there for nine years so yeah, I
• 46:46
  don't know that I knew you were there that long for so I don't
• 46:48
  know. I like I was expecting to be
• 46:50
  somewhere between Kent in Louisville.
• 46:51
  So when you said little balls like is that right you told
• 46:55
  broke you to start forgetting things.
• 46:58
  Now, Louisville's, pretty cool. In regards to you named one
• 47:02
  thing that was going to bring up is you know going from the Big
• 47:05
  East into the ACC one of the Premier track conferences.
• 47:08
  I mean that conference will who that is no joke, that's a as
• 47:13
  much as I have. So much respect for the Mac Man.
• 47:15
  The ACC name me a week event, there ain't One jumps distance,
• 47:19
  throws it, don't matter. The those schools and those
• 47:23
  coaches are just getting after it year after year.
• 47:25
  It's quite amazing has gotten better every year to where now.
• 47:28
  It's just like, this is not fun. I wouldn't want to coach there.
• 47:30
  Just no fun but you know, you know, cool, interesting campus,
• 47:35
  you know I kind of call it like a almost like a City Campus.
• 47:37
  Have a lot of concrete but there's a lot of cool things
• 47:39
  going on there with Louisville. It's kind of unique in that
• 47:41
  sense. It's not a straight campus
• 47:44
  concrete campus but but it is unique in the highways right
• 47:47
  there. But the Scylla T is phenomenal.
• 47:49
  I love the facility. I love the athletic facilities
• 47:51
  that you were the offices are and things like that.
• 47:53
  Tell me about your time at Louisville.
• 47:55
  Was it did it meet what you thought it would be.
• 47:58
  So I went to the power of I went to the SEC and I had a, you
• 48:01
  know, I thought everything was going to be easy, I thought,
• 48:04
  well, everybody, I calls going to Nobis if he stayed and
• 48:07
  they're all going to want to come to me.
• 48:08
  And then I forgot that the if I'm calling them, they also want
• 48:11
  to go to Florida, Texas, USC Etc, and it's like ah crap.
• 48:15
  This got harder, what was your expectation going into Now,
• 48:18
  power 5 position here at Louisville.
• 48:21
  Yeah, I know, I just I just told the story to recruit and her mom
• 48:23
  the other night. And I was talking to him that,
• 48:25
  you know, and I was at Kent State and I thought I was
• 48:27
  recruiting someone. And if I heard, you know,
• 48:29
  Louisville was in on them, Ohio State.
• 48:32
  And I just figured, I'm not gonna get that kid, you know?
• 48:36
  But then I got to Louisville and I heard you know, get States in
• 48:40
  on a kid. Then I'm like we can't match
• 48:43
  their offer like we can't get that kid.
• 48:45
  You know what I mean? Like, so that's most things are
• 48:47
  real with. Coach is Right some and you
• 48:52
  know, I'm trying. We're we're gonna have a lot of
• 48:54
  fun when we start talking about recruiting here as Pro because
• 48:57
  that brings up a great story. I love it.
• 48:59
  Keep going. Sorry to keep going, that's so
• 49:01
  funny. But but no, you know, it was it
• 49:04
  was an awesome experience to talk about mentors and Joe
• 49:06
  Walker Juniors on. Oh yes.
• 49:09
  He's tired from Ole Miss. His son is our distance coach.
• 49:12
  He's our jumps coach talked about humble.
• 49:14
  I mean, I'm there for two months, and he's asking me
• 49:17
  questions about Out training, or is athletes or whatever, and I'm
• 49:20
  a quarter you, why are you asking me?
• 49:22
  You know, he's and he's one of my best, you know, he's a great
• 49:25
  friend still. Yeah.
• 49:27
  So so it was, it was awesome. The ACC was tough.
• 49:31
  I mean, I had our first year in it.
• 49:33
  I had a sophomore Poulter and she tied for third, and she was,
• 49:39
  she was really talented. She was, we were complete
• 49:41
  different people, you know? She was a Southern Belle and so
• 49:45
  it took a lot for me to figure out how to get her going.
• 49:48
  And and chief got third in doors and was, you know, saying on the
• 49:53
  podium Podium three people on the podium, the ACC.
• 49:55
  And I'm ever Santa thinking, like, man, that was like, that
• 49:59
  was hard. I don't know if I'm going to
• 50:00
  have another Athlete on Podium again.
• 50:02
  Like, that's how like challenging it was right and
• 50:05
  continue on. And obviously, we have a lot of
• 50:08
  kids on the podium, but but that's how like tough it was.
• 50:11
  Bob Phillips is in the conference bald and so many
• 50:13
  great kind of it coaches. And so, so yeah, I know, It was,
• 50:19
  it was fun. And I mean, I learned a lot and,
• 50:21
  you know, we had a great staff Dynamic, you know, such and I
• 50:23
  first got there. And so, yeah.
• 50:26
  So it was, it was good experience, living in
• 50:28
  Louisville, living in a city for the first time too.
• 50:30
  Yeah, it's fun. It's a cool Town.
• 50:32
  Yeah, for sure. What were you do?
• 50:34
  You use the word. Learn, what have you been doing
• 50:38
  for coaching education? And what I mean by that is
• 50:41
  there's there's formal and informal formal be in the u.s.
• 50:45
  ETF coaching education track. Now, us tfcc a all, Is it cetera
• 50:50
  and an informal? And I have to assume you had a
• 50:52
  lot of informal because you had a hairy mirror Bill lost.
• 50:54
  And you mentioned Joe even as a Mississippi State coach and
• 50:58
  unofficial Alum, I still have to love Joe even though he was, you
• 51:01
  know, long time on this, kick my butt for the two years that I
• 51:04
  was there. That's for sure.
• 51:06
  But so I have to assume you're doing a lot of informal, you
• 51:09
  know, talking to their coaches, talking to Jenny when you were
• 51:11
  out there in Oregon etcetera. Hey, so what, what do you do
• 51:14
  here? How you doing this?
• 51:15
  You mentioned having to figure out that athlete talk to you.
• 51:18
  All to the southern belle of. How do I actually get her going
• 51:21
  in the right direction? Where you do it Annie and what
• 51:23
  kinds of maybe formal education, where you doing any usatf, just
• 51:27
  efca. What were you doing that?
• 51:29
  That route to get better coaching.
• 51:31
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did, the u.s. tfcc a combined
• 51:34
  events class with vows, with Revell toe and Grimes Ashcroft
• 51:41
  was like an ongoing Mentor, you know, Harry was ongoing Mentor,
• 51:46
  I would go and spend time at Wichita State, Was home, you
• 51:49
  know, one breaks and talk to their staff and get in
• 51:52
  perspective from them different events and it's not a lot to
• 51:54
  learn. Like I was a pole vaulter, you
• 51:56
  know? And I didn't want to get
• 51:58
  pigeonholed as a football coach, I was super aware of that
• 52:00
  happening to coaches. And so I was trying to make sure
• 52:05
  that that didn't happen to me, you know?
• 52:07
  And so the combined events, luckily getting to follow Harry
• 52:10
  around Oregon and then you know, helping coach Lawson with the
• 52:15
  multi is that Kent State and eventually, I had a lot more,
• 52:17
  you know, involvement. Those athletes that when I got
• 52:20
  to Louisville and I got the decathlon in the pole, vault
• 52:23
  originally, and then they gave me the women that, you know, the
• 52:26
  next year in the head. So why did you gravitate towards
• 52:30
  the multis versus the other jumps versus the long triple and
• 52:34
  hi? Yeah.
• 52:35
  Well, I think for one, it was just a situation, I was in, you
• 52:37
  know, it was, which is, I was around and what I had access to
• 52:42
  is, and what they needed at Louisville, and I got there and
• 52:45
  what they need that can State when I got there.
• 52:47
  But I love the combine. And to think, I think there's a
• 52:49
  similarity between it's like mentality lies between pole
• 52:52
  vaulters and combined with an athlete.
• 52:55
  So being able to coach both those events at will and only
• 52:58
  having those two events was huge, you know, like it was it
• 53:01
  allowed me to really, you know, to really hone in on what I was
• 53:04
  doing compared to having, you know, the jumps on top of that
• 53:08
  which some coaches have to manage.
• 53:09
  Hmm, yeah, good point, I know, you know, talking with some just
• 53:15
  really top-notch combined events coaches, you mentioned
• 53:17
  cliffordville. Otto another podcast Alum,
• 53:20
  anytime I say podcast along, you know, that means you got to go
• 53:22
  back and listen to that episode as well, right?
• 53:24
  Okay, so here Mara cliffordville toe, you mentioned, Chris
• 53:28
  Grimes, and other kind of a little unsung hero.
• 53:31
  I'm not sure he gets to do that. He deserves for what he's he
• 53:34
  coaches as well, Bill Lawson. But when I talk to some of these
• 53:38
  high-level combined events coaches, they're really in this
• 53:41
  sounds like a slam, but it's actually maybe one of the secret
• 53:45
  like high praises in track coaching.
• 53:48
  Old. They're really good.
• 53:50
  Generalist and that sounds bad right side opening of the word
• 53:53
  general. You know, Specialists were
• 53:54
  supposed to be Specialists and things and, you know, go a mile
• 53:57
  deep into the hundred meter dash or whatnot, but these guys like
• 54:00
  cliff and Bill they do the basics really, really well.
• 54:07
  Do you think having gone into because of situational
• 54:12
  situations, they're going to combined events instead of going
• 54:15
  into strictly other jumps. Do you think that made you a
• 54:18
  better? Her whole lot coach.
• 54:20
  Absolutely, you know, gives gives you some humility and
• 54:24
  what, you know, like, I'm trying to keep teaching a tougher shot
• 54:27
  put, right? So it's just like when I'm
• 54:29
  showing drills or whatever those movements are new to me, right?
• 54:32
  So you have a little bit more perspective, on maybe things
• 54:34
  that was easy for me as a pole vaulter.
• 54:37
  These athletes, it's not easy for them and I just felt that,
• 54:40
  you know, two hours ago and the shot put right.
• 54:43
  And I'm a lefty so showing drills with the right foot, you
• 54:46
  know, getting, you know, be good.
• 54:48
  That way. But but now I think you really
• 54:51
  understand the basics of movement and you have to like
• 54:54
  understand commonalities, what is actually really important in
• 54:57
  training and what isn't? And so I think the confinements
• 55:00
  kind of teaches you that for sure.
• 55:03
  So I hear a lot of people complain about usatf level 1
• 55:09
  because you know it's 20 hours in like two and a half two and a
• 55:12
  quarter days and you go over every event, you know, Sprint's
• 55:15
  jumps throws distance and a lot of people are taking level.
• 55:18
  One to get to level two so where you just do Sprints and hurdles
• 55:22
  are just jumps etcetera and so I hear a nice you know I taught
• 55:26
  over 30 Something level ones and I'd always hear the feedback of
• 55:29
  like oh man I was falling asleep during distance.
• 55:31
  It was a Sprint coach saying that of course or the throws
• 55:34
  coach might all we barely done any throws.
• 55:36
  We did a bunch of distance and jumps and all this kind of
• 55:38
  stuff, but I wonder. Now if level one isn't like the
• 55:41
  most important thing you can do because you learn about the
• 55:45
  basics of each one, right? Right.
• 55:48
  Yeah, I know, I mean, it's like, as a combined of it coach, when
• 55:51
  I would go to the Coaches convention, right?
• 55:54
  Like the special, he coaches are kind of like, I don't need to go
• 55:57
  to that one or that one or. And I'm like, I'm going to ever
• 55:59
  see, you know, exactly how many different ones I want to hit,
• 56:01
  right, which I was doing here young coach and you're learning
• 56:04
  new events, but I mean I think ultimately it's, you know, like
• 56:09
  you have to understand the events but I think if you
• 56:11
  understand the athlete that's you know the most important
• 56:14
  aspect is and I think, you know, those great coaches we talked
• 56:17
  about Like they understood that, you know, that mentored me, they
• 56:20
  understood that you're coaching athletes.
• 56:23
  You're not coaching a specific event.
• 56:26
  So that was something that I really focused on.
• 56:29
  I mean, I have a story. So, Joe Delgado was a athlete at
• 56:32
  Oregon, not when I was there, but he was there for four years.
• 56:36
  He was a decathlete. He scored 7555, I think it
• 56:39
  Oregon and he came to Louisville as a grad transfer.
• 56:44
  It was the first like decathlete that I got scholarship
• 56:47
  significant money. And so he came in and it was
• 56:51
  kind of a little bit of a reach to get my head coach to do that,
• 56:54
  you know. Luckily, it was on the end of
• 56:55
  the year he was good. He was a natural of a kid but
• 56:59
  but luckily we had the money a went for it.
• 57:02
  And he came in and I was actually a maternity leave his
• 57:07
  first six weeks of practice. So, he caves and transfers, I go
• 57:11
  on attorney, I got hurt trying to leave our Spirits coach took
• 57:13
  care of him, fine, you know, and then I get back and we're about
• 57:17
  to have a shot. Put Ian and we're up by the ring
• 57:20
  and he starts, you know, doing some footwork drills and and it
• 57:23
  my stomach just drops because I'm like this kid rotates and
• 57:27
  the shot. Put I've never coached a
• 57:29
  rotational shot put a report not only I've never coached
• 57:32
  rotational shopping before. I've barely watch somebody coach
• 57:36
  the rotational childhood you know the Glide and the shuffle
• 57:39
  or the two that I've been familiar with you Harry and law
• 57:42
  and you know it you know so I was pretty quiet that first
• 57:45
  session you know like Joe you rotate Yeah right, huh.
• 57:49
  All right. You know.
• 57:50
  And yeah, I kind of let him go through his normal routine.
• 57:53
  He's he's older. He's his fifth year guy, you
• 57:55
  know, and you know, I get video, I sent it off to Harry like,
• 57:59
  hey, let me know. Your thoughts are like this, you
• 58:01
  know, I start researching, you know, and and he ended up PR and
• 58:05
  by thinking M that you're in the shot put and it had nothing to
• 58:08
  do with me having a great understanding rotational
• 58:11
  chocolate. Right.
• 58:11
  But I knew Delgado, right? And I knew him and what he want
• 58:15
  to and I didn't over Coach him, you know, I love him.
• 58:18
  Do his thing and make sure it's balanced and, you know, and so
• 58:22
  so that that for me, gave me more, I guess, confidence, like
• 58:27
  understanding like a Adidas under a 6, you know, like,
• 58:29
  athletes are able to figure a lot of things out as well.
• 58:33
  So, one of my favorite after 200, something guests that we've
• 58:37
  had, it was early thinking. The first 50s we had Brooks
• 58:41
  Johnson on the show and Brooks really broke it down as far as
• 58:46
  every event is the exact same. You're moving the center of
• 58:49
  mass. You just do it in some different
• 58:51
  form, whether you rotate in the shot or whether you run 5,000
• 58:54
  meters. It's so if you understand that
• 58:57
  first and foremost, you shouldn't be a Sprint's coach or
• 59:00
  a pole, vault, coach, or shotput coach, you should be a track
• 59:04
  coach. I mean, he was really adamant
• 59:06
  about and it was really kind of, you know, again, it's easier for
• 59:10
  me on this side cuz I don't have to then go to the track and try
• 59:12
  to implement this but I was like, wow.
• 59:14
  That makes a lot of sense. No wonder.
• 59:15
  I was a crummy coach Brooks thanks but But it made a lot of
• 59:19
  sense of being a, your coach, not a jumps.
• 59:22
  Coach aspirants coach Etc. I can't imagine you, talked
• 59:27
  about your stomach's drop and I can't imagine that first time.
• 59:30
  You walk back out, you already know you have your own
• 59:32
  challenges of, okay, the kids have been here six weeks and I
• 59:34
  haven't returned a lie. That's going to be its own
• 59:36
  challenge here. I've got to earn their trust
• 59:39
  quickly because everybody else is earning their trust and last
• 59:41
  six weeks and then he rotates and you're like, oh wait a
• 59:46
  minute like I have Almost purposely shun that because
• 59:49
  that's not even in my world. I do the yeah.
• 59:53
  Oh man I love that you tackled it though.
• 59:56
  You know video back to Hera probably called some other
• 59:59
  mentors like okay. So what have you done?
• 1:00:00
  Have you moved the power into a spinner?
• 1:00:04
  What do you do here? And then the kid PR is by a me
• 1:00:07
  like that. Ultimately, you know, our sport
• 1:00:08
  is defined by the tape measure and the stopwatch.
• 1:00:10
  So ultimately, it's like, well, did Brooke do a good job or not?
• 1:00:12
  It's like really PR by a meter. I don't care.
• 1:00:16
  Dale, was coaching the shop? What are they?
• 1:00:18
  They do a meter, that's a phenomenal job so that's really
• 1:00:21
  good. Yeah, that he had a real, he we
• 1:00:23
  didn't go to a track meet that year that he didn't PR and
• 1:00:26
  something it was unbelievable for fifth-year guy.
• 1:00:28
  It was like, yeah, we just had a, I mean, he was super
• 1:00:31
  dedicated, we had a unique connection and it was, it was
• 1:00:33
  funny and I'm getting forth and civilize outdoor season and
• 1:00:36
  sews. It was awesome.
• 1:00:38
  Awesome experience. Well you know, during your nine
• 1:00:40
  years, there at Louisville incorrect me where I get this
• 1:00:43
  wrong either outside looking in type diagnosis.
• 1:00:47
  And I do, I I got to tell you this term, free interview, I
• 1:00:50
  don't do any research, so broke. I didn't go look and see how
• 1:00:52
  many all Americans in this and all you see?
• 1:00:54
  See, I have only just what I have.
• 1:00:56
  Just observed in the time that I've, you know, that I observe,
• 1:00:58
  I'm at meats and things like that, but you threw your time at
• 1:01:01
  Louisville. For the first five, six, seven
• 1:01:03
  years out of those nine. You always had a good group.
• 1:01:06
  Like I said, you know, tell God. Oh, and other people had really
• 1:01:08
  good multis. And I were a lot of a multi
• 1:01:10
  scorn at acc's. I was at acc's down in Miami and
• 1:01:13
  in Virginia and I was like, I'm always Louisville.
• 1:01:15
  They're going to have at least one and usually it was a couple.
• 1:01:18
  Multi eyes and of alternative. You have altered here and there
• 1:01:21
  as well. But my memory serves me that
• 1:01:23
  here in the last two years, two, to three years of Louisville.
• 1:01:27
  The The Vault, what happened? Because something got really
• 1:01:32
  good in the vault National Champion.
• 1:01:34
  First of all, who does a, we forget that winnings hard.
• 1:01:39
  There's only one winner of each event every stinkin year.
• 1:01:42
  So means there's only one coaches coach them every year
• 1:01:45
  and you coach the national champion.
• 1:01:46
  I think, did you have third place?
• 1:01:48
  Year as well to you first and third or something like that.
• 1:01:51
  I'm not not any. I might be getting that mixed
• 1:01:53
  up. Yeah but your National Champion
• 1:01:55
  I got that right. I know that what what what what,
• 1:01:58
  what changed in those last few years, they could be, you know,
• 1:02:01
  more scholarship. What?
• 1:02:02
  I don't know could be luck as well.
• 1:02:04
  There just seemed to be like a preponderance of more success
• 1:02:07
  the last few years. Yeah, no, I think a lot of it
• 1:02:09
  just comes back to continuity. You know, you've been somewhere
• 1:02:12
  for nine years. You've been able to build a
• 1:02:14
  culture of had, I was fortunate when I came in and I had a
• 1:02:17
  couple last fleets that were really great kids that were
• 1:02:20
  really committed. They were maybe more Biggie's
• 1:02:23
  Talent than ACC talent but they really helped kind of get the
• 1:02:27
  culture rolling and then, you know, once that kind of ball
• 1:02:30
  starts and I just continued, but they have all just get fortunate
• 1:02:33
  with some recruiting and the kids that came in and you know,
• 1:02:37
  and when Gabby Leon who ended up winning a national title and she
• 1:02:39
  came in, I just actually talked to her this morning and, you
• 1:02:42
  know, it's like, you know, so I remember, you know, you know,
• 1:02:45
  Morgan Zacharias and Jade Hawkins and Holly hankinson and
• 1:02:48
  And Eric Fox and they were bought in to what you were
• 1:02:51
  doing. And so I was bought in, you
• 1:02:53
  know? And and so I think that's, you
• 1:02:55
  know, that's that the great thing about being somewhere for
• 1:02:59
  a long time, you know, and then you're able to just continue to
• 1:03:02
  build on that and you know, that, you know, 13-foot vaulter
• 1:03:06
  that you had to pay 50% for nine years ago.
• 1:03:10
  Like now you don't have to do that, you know.
• 1:03:12
  And now it doesn't cost as much because they want to be a part
• 1:03:14
  of that. It's worth.
• 1:03:17
  What does he talk to? Gabi this morning.
• 1:03:19
  What does a, you know, again, winning a national championship
• 1:03:22
  and I'm not tell my daddy won national championship that
• 1:03:24
  special, but so is winning D2 D3.
• 1:03:26
  It's such a few, heck, being a state champion, even crazy
• 1:03:30
  States, like, Kansas, because I can say that because Alabama has
• 1:03:32
  the same way that have six classes for small state.
• 1:03:35
  I don't like that at all, but it's cool, it's great, that's a
• 1:03:38
  big deal. What is a like, I always wonder
• 1:03:40
  like do I know they don't because this is our world, we
• 1:03:43
  live in people walk by Gabby everyday people on the bus.
• 1:03:48
  Gabby every day. They have no idea that she was
• 1:03:51
  the best in the country in the pole.
• 1:03:55
  Vault, one year, she won a battle and won the national
• 1:03:58
  title. What did she do today?
• 1:04:01
  She really still vaulting. I was just now went.
• 1:04:03
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I know, she she sponsored by
• 1:04:06
  puma, and she's also his professional, and so, it's
• 1:04:09
  pretty awesome that she set up to do.
• 1:04:11
  She set herself up and she had a great end of the year, made the
• 1:04:13
  world team trial, so that was big and see Yeah.
• 1:04:18
  Now those, it was pretty crazy to, I mean, I told the
• 1:04:21
  recruiting story about her a couple weeks ago, but I didn't
• 1:04:25
  know who she was. Until after her senior high
• 1:04:27
  school, we're at New Balance. And she had already graduated,
• 1:04:31
  and she was competing. And she, fortunately hadn't made
• 1:04:34
  a commitment yet to school. And she came on a, visit a week
• 1:04:38
  later and came to school by three or four weeks after that,
• 1:04:41
  you know. So the other like pick a kid out
• 1:04:43
  get her to come developer into what she was man, what an
• 1:04:46
  awesome thing to be able to do it.
• 1:04:48
  It always happen like that, right?
• 1:04:51
  Yeah, you mentioned Musa, girl, earlier, and we've been friends
• 1:04:54
  on Facebook for a decade now but like you know she's doing it.
• 1:04:59
  Nursing or doctor I can't reach one cheese in the medical field.
• 1:05:02
  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, open Chicagoland.
• 1:05:06
  And it's all see her like, take pictures of like you know,
• 1:05:09
  they'll be out or whatever, you know, the graduating class and
• 1:05:11
  I'm like, they have no, I wonder if they have any idea.
• 1:05:13
  They don't have any idea. She was National And I'm talking
• 1:05:18
  when I say battle, I was there. I was at Drake Tina suited.
• 1:05:21
  I think I don't know if I'm pronouncing his name correctly
• 1:05:23
  and came here. The other there was three just
• 1:05:25
  Superstar Tina was one of them for sure.
• 1:05:27
  And Melissa pulls that out, man. It was an amazing at night.
• 1:05:32
  It was amazing competition, but I just wonder like no idea how
• 1:05:36
  special she is what kind of athlete it's like you know idea
• 1:05:40
  you think you're good at your rec league basketball?
• 1:05:42
  Let me tell you what this looks like Urkel did.
• 1:05:46
  It's fascinating testing. Okay, well broke.
• 1:05:49
  We're talking about a lot of success.
• 1:05:50
  A lot of fun that you had to Louisville a lot of growth, nine
• 1:05:54
  years, I mean that you know that consistency and that continuity
• 1:05:58
  does mean something that you use the word culture.
• 1:06:00
  The building culture is super hard easy to destroy, super hard
• 1:06:04
  to build. It takes nine plus years to
• 1:06:07
  build and keep layering on that culture.
• 1:06:09
  But everybody listening has already looked at your name at
• 1:06:12
  the title of the podcast, and it didn't say the University of
• 1:06:14
  Louisville, says Elevate athlete.
• 1:06:16
  Recruiting talk to us about this.
• 1:06:18
  Transition. That's occurred over this past
• 1:06:19
  year. Yeah, yeah, so yeah, no, I mean,
• 1:06:24
  I absolutely love me to college coach.
• 1:06:25
  It was you know, something that I felt like was really what I
• 1:06:30
  was built to do. You know I was doing it and just
• 1:06:32
  being able to influence those athletes and being a part of
• 1:06:35
  team and building something and being in a competitive
• 1:06:37
  environment. But, you know, the biggest thing
• 1:06:40
  is I've got three little boys for myself.
• 1:06:43
  So my oldest is five. So, so talk about Gabby during
• 1:06:47
  Gabby's five. Little I had, I had three
• 1:06:50
  maternity leaves that she managed, you know how.
• 1:06:54
  So so it was crazy, you know, and covid-19 the middle of that
• 1:06:59
  and and we kind of went into covid with really just starting.
• 1:07:04
  You know, we were at the end of the indoor season with two kids.
• 1:07:07
  So try, we hadn't went through the tough part with two kids yet
• 1:07:10
  and then everything got shut down and we come back from covid
• 1:07:13
  and now we have three kids, you know?
• 1:07:15
  So it it just got, you know, it's tough.
• 1:07:19
  So so yeah. So it kind of got to the point
• 1:07:22
  where I just felt like you know the challenges that were there
• 1:07:24
  and you know what it was taken away.
• 1:07:27
  It just just felt like it was the right time to kind of step
• 1:07:29
  away and not travel as much and spend more time with my kids and
• 1:07:35
  it was hard and it was a hard tough grueling decision you know
• 1:07:40
  for sure but but I think it was the right one, you know, for
• 1:07:43
  rent in life and and when I quit I had no idea what I was going.
• 1:07:48
  Do you know when you're a college coach?
• 1:07:50
  It's not like you can like put feelers out there that you might
• 1:07:53
  step away right. You know so it's weird, you know
• 1:07:56
  this words. I think sometimes coaches kind
• 1:07:58
  of get they might want to get out but it's like what do you
• 1:08:00
  for what you do and you're making pretty good money in.
• 1:08:04
  I can't really go search for jobs or easily.
• 1:08:06
  Why I'm in this role, you know? But I was fortunate.
• 1:08:10
  My husband does well and we're in Louisville.
• 1:08:12
  He owns a business here and so to leave the area is A
• 1:08:18
  challenge, you know, because of his business.
• 1:08:21
  So it's kind of like if I'm going to be a college coach is
• 1:08:23
  where I'm going to be at and so see ya.
• 1:08:27
  So decided it was you know I can step away and we were wearing
• 1:08:31
  okay, spot financially or if I want to be a stay-at-home mom, I
• 1:08:34
  could do that. I have found out about four
• 1:08:36
  weeks in. That was not what I was cut out
• 1:08:37
  for and so that wasn't we're talking.
• 1:08:40
  I found that out during covid you know that that was when I
• 1:08:44
  really found out three of them running around You know, it
• 1:08:49
  takes a special human being to do that and I'm not it.
• 1:08:51
  So CS I knew I wanted to do something and so I applied for
• 1:08:57
  some jobs and and really when I, when I stepped away, I had this
• 1:09:00
  thought of recruiting education. And the first week, I, it was
• 1:09:05
  announced that I quit. I had about five different
• 1:09:08
  families, Reach Out, wanting unbiased perspective on
• 1:09:11
  recruiting. Hmm.
• 1:09:13
  And so that kind of piqued my interest even more in You know,
• 1:09:18
  but I never one kind of told me, hey, like take some time, don't
• 1:09:21
  jump right into anything yet. It's been, I mean, life was
• 1:09:23
  crazy. You know what that many kids and
• 1:09:26
  in this, you know, college coaching scene and the end of
• 1:09:29
  the last year was crazy. Because we were at USA's and
• 1:09:31
  worlds. And, you know, I was gone, five
• 1:09:34
  weeks, I was 10 weeks of the season and so so I waited, I
• 1:09:39
  kind of put it on the back burner but I had met with a
• 1:09:43
  couple of local Club coaches. When I was first thinking about
• 1:09:46
  it, I'm just kind of getting a perspective because I don't I
• 1:09:48
  don't know the high school sign of it.
• 1:09:49
  You're right. I know from the college side and
• 1:09:51
  and and after a couple months, one of those Club coaches reach
• 1:09:55
  out to me and said, hey like I meet with my group once a month.
• 1:09:58
  We do different topics. Would you want to come talk
• 1:10:00
  about recruiting? And you know, so I spent you
• 1:10:04
  know 20 hours preparing for this one hour free, you know,
• 1:10:07
  consultation or education seminar, you know.
• 1:10:10
  But in my mind I'm like, okay if I do this then I'll have this
• 1:10:13
  in, it's worth the time, you know?
• 1:10:14
  And so I went and presented and that the coaches really Great.
• 1:10:18
  He was a Hero Sprint club and and he was like, hey Andy this
• 1:10:23
  is something you could really do.
• 1:10:24
  Like this is really valuable information and so I kind of
• 1:10:28
  fun, you know, have that spin around my head for a little
• 1:10:30
  while and you know decided you know what I'm gonna start a get
• 1:10:34
  a website going and try to create content and see if I can
• 1:10:38
  help people through this process and educate them and feel like I
• 1:10:41
  was in a really unique position of understanding the current
• 1:10:44
  landscape. But able to say things that
• 1:10:47
  college coaches can't say You know, and and I, you know, they
• 1:10:51
  have rules against some things they can do that.
• 1:10:53
  I don't have anymore. So so yeah.
• 1:10:57
  That's kind of how it all how it all started.
• 1:10:59
  So what's the, what's the business?
• 1:11:02
  Are you Consulting with Junior, Senior athletes on, you know,
• 1:11:09
  best practices for recruiting are you Consulting with other
• 1:11:13
  college coaches on how best practices on a recruiter?
• 1:11:17
  What? What services are you providing?
• 1:11:19
  Yeah. So right now, I'm still kind of
• 1:11:22
  figuring all that out, you know, I kind of felt like I'll take
• 1:11:25
  this year and really learn. And so I'm doing some like,
• 1:11:29
  one-on-one Consulting, you know, so families, you know, will do
• 1:11:33
  Consulting calls to help them navigate wherever they're at in
• 1:11:36
  their process or what challenges they have, or then I've created
• 1:11:40
  content. So, I have a website that
• 1:11:43
  athletes and families can go to if they, you know, like if they
• 1:11:46
  want, understand the recruiting timeline.
• 1:11:48
  No, they can buy that video for $12 or something.
• 1:11:50
  I'm trying to make it very accessible.
• 1:11:52
  It's kind of my plan. My vision, you know, I've done
• 1:11:56
  recruiting, you know, live seminars that people can sign up
• 1:11:59
  for and cover topics. And I went, I went out and spoke
• 1:12:04
  at Reno at the pull bolt Summit and spoke to the parents out
• 1:12:07
  there and that went really well, you know, it's when you talk to
• 1:12:10
  people and, you know, like exactly who your audience is and
• 1:12:13
  it's really easy to, you know, it's easier to really navigate
• 1:12:17
  that. And that was good.
• 1:12:19
  So that kind of continue to snowball and did a couple poles
• 1:12:22
  specific seminars and and yes, so I'm still kind of navigating
• 1:12:27
  kind of what all my services are.
• 1:12:29
  I've I've had clubs reach out to speak directly to their Club,
• 1:12:32
  you know, to try to hit, you know, all their all their
• 1:12:34
  athletes. And I thought about going
• 1:12:38
  coaching mentorship route for college coaches kind of not and
• 1:12:42
  not just recruiting. But you know that's like you
• 1:12:45
  talked about like I've been super blessed with all these
• 1:12:47
  great mentors at Impacted my career.
• 1:12:49
  And I understand that there's people out there that don't have
• 1:12:50
  that, you know, especially in the poll them combined events.
• 1:12:54
  You know, it's hard to find those resources and someone that
• 1:12:57
  can really kind of like walk you through it.
• 1:12:59
  So I thought about implementing something like that this fall,
• 1:13:02
  but I haven't got there yet. So but yeah.
• 1:13:06
  So I'm more focused on the families and the athletes in
• 1:13:10
  helping kind of guide them through it and giving them just
• 1:13:12
  reality. Yeah, you're forgiven for not
• 1:13:15
  having it all figured out already broke just so you're
• 1:13:17
  aware. Are, you know super valuable,
• 1:13:22
  right? I mean you know when you're
• 1:13:23
  talking about track and field specifically in college
• 1:13:27
  opportunities, there's so many right.
• 1:13:30
  There's, you know, 12 to 1500 track programs out there on the
• 1:13:34
  Collegiate side and typically we know most schools based on their
• 1:13:41
  TV time of football. That's where we know, you know,
• 1:13:44
  we might we might not have heard of Citadel, The Citadel because
• 1:13:48
  Don't play on Saturdays on ESPN, but we know of LSU because they
• 1:13:52
  do play on ESPN on what not on Saturdays but that doesn't mean
• 1:13:57
  LSU's the right program for you as a track and field athlete.
• 1:14:00
  Make the maybe the Citadel is the exact right spot for you.
• 1:14:04
  How do you navigate? You've had a lot of good
• 1:14:07
  experience. You've had tons of except
• 1:14:08
  success coaching wise. Like just put it to the side
• 1:14:11
  because that's a no-brainer what you've done as an athlete.
• 1:14:14
  You're not a 50-year Old Coach, meaning you haven't coach for 25
• 1:14:19
  years but you do have experience but all that experience also has
• 1:14:23
  been in division. One also your athletic side has
• 1:14:26
  been in division one. How do you we've been talking?
• 1:14:29
  We've used the word bias quite often here today and I love
• 1:14:31
  black that have these these very Frank conversations.
• 1:14:34
  How do you now that you are not working for division, one
• 1:14:38
  institution and and you I'm going to assume you know
• 1:14:42
  division one is not right for every athlete regardless of
• 1:14:45
  their athletic ability that still doesn't mean you should be
• 1:14:47
  going. Division one.
• 1:14:49
  How do you navigate your own biases in regards to division 1
• 1:14:53
  versus NAIA Junior. College obviously D2 D3 when
• 1:14:57
  you're Consulting with parents and children out there.
• 1:15:01
  Yeah, yeah. No.
• 1:15:02
  I mean, I like I said, I feel like I'm trying to use this year
• 1:15:05
  to learn as much as I can. You know, that's communicating
• 1:15:07
  with coaches at those different levels of what are the
• 1:15:10
  differences? You know that off, you know,
• 1:15:13
  David, David pledge was intensely at Oregon phenomenal.
• 1:15:17
  He's a division. Three We coach in California and
• 1:15:20
  you know we had a conversation a few weeks ago of just like, hey,
• 1:15:22
  tell me about how this experience is, as a division to
• 1:15:25
  be coach, you know, you he was a very high-level Division, 1
• 1:15:28
  Prospect, you know, getting his perspective, right?
• 1:15:30
  So trying to I've been trying to get ahold of different coaches
• 1:15:33
  in game there. You know, knowledge and then and
• 1:15:37
  then utilize that with these athletes, right?
• 1:15:39
  Because, you know, Trying to really understand what these
• 1:15:43
  kids value. You know, what do you really
• 1:15:45
  care about and what is your commitment level?
• 1:15:48
  You know, and what you may think you want this.
• 1:15:51
  But that's not really reality, you know?
• 1:15:54
  And I'm in a great position to be able to tell them some of
• 1:15:57
  those things you know where their High School coach make
• 1:16:00
  doesn't want to tell him now, you're not a division 1 athlete
• 1:16:02
  right where I can say hey like I know this is what you want but
• 1:16:06
  you're not you're not close but you better have a butt-kicking
• 1:16:09
  here to get even a phone call back.
• 1:16:11
  Now, return email. That's, you know, something you
• 1:16:14
  want to read so, but but yeah, I like the hard part for me is
• 1:16:19
  that there's so many programs. Like, I don't, I can't have a
• 1:16:22
  pulse on every situation and even the programs that I'm
• 1:16:25
  pretty familiar with, you know, you never know.
• 1:16:28
  Really what's going on? Don't you know?
• 1:16:31
  And so my, you know, my goal isn't to place athletes, you
• 1:16:35
  know, at all. I got I want to be a placement
• 1:16:37
  service, I want to empower them, give them the knowledge, help
• 1:16:41
  them. Stan, what questions?
• 1:16:42
  They need to get answered, help them.
• 1:16:44
  Understand what, how to set their expectations.
• 1:16:48
  You know, I asked the question on Twitter while back like, why
• 1:16:51
  do you ask Elites, not get better in college.
• 1:16:54
  It was great. I mean, it, you know, blew up on
• 1:16:55
  Twitter. I ever it has perspective on it
• 1:16:57
  and I think a lot of it is like expectations, don't meet
• 1:17:02
  reality. You know, and that's so being
• 1:17:06
  able to help them understand that what you think this is may
• 1:17:09
  not be what it is, and that's fine.
• 1:17:11
  There's awesome situations for someone at every school for what
• 1:17:16
  they need but just making sure that that's really what you care
• 1:17:19
  about and fits what you want and understanding that.
• 1:17:23
  There's no, you know, sunshine and rainbows situation for
• 1:17:27
  everybody, you know, even you know Mondo Duplantis.
• 1:17:31
  You know at LSU there's probably things that else you he wish was
• 1:17:33
  different You know, he's one of the best athletes in the world,
• 1:17:36
  you know? And so that's just reality.
• 1:17:38
  So helping them just like, understand those challenges are
• 1:17:41
  going to come and, you know, putting in the best situation.
• 1:17:44
  So there are less challenges or they have people there that
• 1:17:46
  really care to help them get through that.
• 1:17:50
  In general, you know, so you are starting to and doing keeping
• 1:17:58
  your finger on the pulse of coaches, as it relates now, to
• 1:18:01
  recruiting, right used to use the patronage of coaches, like,
• 1:18:03
  oh, how they coach? Make sure it may be best to be
• 1:18:05
  stealing something from right now.
• 1:18:06
  You're like, okay, well, how are they as a coach in their
• 1:18:10
  program? And maybe you think about things
• 1:18:12
  like, well, are they going to be there next year?
• 1:18:14
  If a parent asked me about that program, Etc?
• 1:18:16
  And you thinking about the motivations of parents and
• 1:18:19
  motivations of Of kids. I love how you said that whether
• 1:18:21
  their expectations of that we like to blanket statement say
• 1:18:27
  too many kids have a D1 or bust mentality.
• 1:18:32
  I also like to kind of put that blanket on coaches to by the way
• 1:18:34
  that you know, I think if any coach would say hey I got a D1
• 1:18:37
  opportunity for it. No, no, I'm good.
• 1:18:39
  I'm good. Some will stay.
• 1:18:40
  But a lot of people, no matter what that D1 would go right
• 1:18:43
  without keep a pair of pay location spouse, they're gone,
• 1:18:48
  right? You had a D1 or bust type
• 1:18:52
  mentality or as well. Right?
• 1:18:54
  I'm wondering. Is that true with the kids that
• 1:18:56
  you have talked to in general? Is that is that true?
• 1:19:02
  And is there anything actually wrong with that?
• 1:19:06
  That doesn't mean they're going to go in a hundred thousand
• 1:19:08
  dollars, a debt to go walk on at LSU because there are 15 flat
• 1:19:12
  hundred meter man, right? But is it, is it not okay to
• 1:19:17
  have that if division one is all Air quotes?
• 1:19:20
  Here is the best division, meaning from first place to
• 1:19:24
  eighth place at the national meet?
• 1:19:25
  By the way, I just came back from division, two, and I just
• 1:19:27
  watched division, three. You better be on your high horse
• 1:19:30
  to make All-American. Their two boys and girls, what
• 1:19:32
  was D3 1016 1014. 10 flatter just under with wind or some
• 1:19:38
  like that in the division 2. I was go to the hundred meter
• 1:19:40
  dash, that's that's all that you got to be an unbelievable
• 1:19:44
  athlete. But is it not?
• 1:19:46
  If it's true. Don't want to hear that answer
• 1:19:48
  that. There's a majority of the you
• 1:19:50
  want her bust is it also wrong for a kid to have a D1 or bust
• 1:19:54
  mentality knowing that they may not go to division one.
• 1:19:57
  They may go to a great school like CMS or West, Texas A&M or
• 1:20:02
  the sudden oh yeah, yeah I definitely think there's that's
• 1:20:07
  still out there for sure of kids like having that mentality and
• 1:20:10
  some of it is just like we talked about earlier it just
• 1:20:13
  like awareness right at They don't even know what else is out
• 1:20:17
  there and what exists and where they could fit in at.
• 1:20:20
  That's all they see, you know. So I was just talking to an
• 1:20:25
  athlete you the other day and said I said, do you want to be a
• 1:20:27
  division 1 athlete? He's kind of an up-and-coming
• 1:20:29
  Junior and he's like yeah I think so.
• 1:20:33
  You know I don't want to go to Every meat and whenever we meet
• 1:20:36
  you know I don't have a team that's competitive and and he
• 1:20:39
  and he might get to that point where the yeah that might be the
• 1:20:42
  reality at most me to go to if he went to a different division
• 1:20:45
  And, you know, but that might not, you know, be in situation,
• 1:20:49
  you know. So, you know, I think a lot of
• 1:20:52
  it just depends on what kids care about, you know, and what I
• 1:20:54
  get a lot is like they want the, they want a high level like a
• 1:20:58
  high Academic School. They want that college football
• 1:21:00
  atmosphere, and they don't know where else to look at.
• 1:21:05
  That's going to have that except being a division one level, even
• 1:21:09
  if they're competitive lie, not quite there yet, you know, like
• 1:21:14
  what I what I really need to You're out of hook.
• 1:21:16
  Somebody listening that would let me know, I need to know what
• 1:21:18
  the best division to academic schools.
• 1:21:20
  Are, you know, because they have this mentality of like those
• 1:21:23
  really good division, one acting schools, they're very good, you
• 1:21:26
  know, some really good division, three academic schools, but to
• 1:21:30
  level or Nai level like what are the best academic?
• 1:21:33
  And I'm sure I can Google it. I just like at the
• 1:21:35
  slaughterhouse couple days and I have.
• 1:21:36
  Yeah, yeah. But, you know, so it's just
• 1:21:39
  figuring out like, okay, this is what you really care about like
• 1:21:42
  what are some other options that would be a fit.
• 1:21:46
  So what would a because I'm going to ask our listeners
• 1:21:50
  because that's a great question. Tell me your Twitter handle here
• 1:21:52
  real quick. So it's at coach Dino DMX.
• 1:21:56
  That's my maiden name. What?
• 1:21:57
  Yeah, you know you can update things on Twitter, right?
• 1:22:00
  Well you can't. Can you change your handle?
• 1:22:02
  Yes, ma'am. Oh my gosh yet, learn something
• 1:22:04
  every day because I can't remember what my mind was.
• 1:22:11
  Like my kind of him. Probably 1976 my birthday
• 1:22:13
  because my kind of him was taken but And this was probably about
• 1:22:17
  maybe 10 years ago. I was spending a lot of money on
• 1:22:19
  Twitter ads for the company back when I ran that side of it.
• 1:22:22
  So I had my own personal Twitter is way before, Elon Musk with
• 1:22:25
  away. I don't think this would fly
• 1:22:26
  today, but I hadn't an accountant, an account manager
• 1:22:30
  at Twitter. And so, one day, I was just
• 1:22:32
  like, hey, you know, I looked at that my Cunningham and that guy
• 1:22:36
  hasn't used his that Twitter and like seven years.
• 1:22:39
  Can I just get it? I'll let me check within seven
• 1:22:42
  days that do get kicked out there.
• 1:22:45
  Kicked off. It was my fault.
• 1:22:58
  When I first started this figure it out so I just assumed I
• 1:23:00
  couldn't change the actual. I hope you're not giving much
• 1:23:04
  consult consultation today on social media.
• 1:23:07
  Recruiting, we need to up the social media game here.
• 1:23:09
  A little bit broke, right? Yeah.
• 1:23:12
  If you're listening to this, and she's still at coach.
• 1:23:16
  What she needs to change that? I want to know.
• 1:23:19
  That's a great question. If I were going to look for the
• 1:23:22
  top ten division 2 and AI academic schools that are also
• 1:23:27
  inside the top 20, 25 nationally track programs.
• 1:23:30
  What would they be? That's like, that's a really
• 1:23:32
  good question because you're right division 2 feels like it
• 1:23:34
  gets kind of lost in there because you have division.
• 1:23:36
  Once you know, about the Harvard's and the Yale's and
• 1:23:38
  USC's Etc, and then division 3 gets this like, oh, you know,
• 1:23:42
  every school in division three must be like an academic Ivy
• 1:23:45
  League. Essentially that's not true by
• 1:23:46
  the way, but there are a lot of great academic institutions
• 1:23:49
  division, three, and division 2. And it's like, which one has the
• 1:23:52
  best research facilities and I look at stuff.
• 1:23:55
  See I'm a dummy. I can tell you which ones have
• 1:23:56
  the best track facilities. That's about as far as I go in
• 1:24:00
  division, two outside of the coaches are amazing.
• 1:24:02
  So tweet me, you know, mine at my Cunningham and for now until
• 1:24:05
  she changes that, she's gonna go change it right now.
• 1:24:07
  I didn't know it at codes demo. Let us know.
• 1:24:10
  That's a great question. I love that question.
• 1:24:12
  So, what the next question is about the kid?
• 1:24:15
  Kids your meeting with a lot of parents and talking to a lot of
• 1:24:18
  parent groups and things. And then when you're talking to
• 1:24:20
  a group of athletes, your, you know, talking with their parents
• 1:24:24
  as well, you know, their kind on the side asking you questions.
• 1:24:28
  What's a bigger problem? A kid thinking?
• 1:24:31
  He needs to be Division, 1 or bust.
• 1:24:34
  Which that's, that's just a crazy thing.
• 1:24:35
  Because division one is really in my opinion, two divisions.
• 1:24:38
  It's a, it's a power five in everybody else, sorry, it just
• 1:24:42
  no one's a bigger fan of their alma mater, me Troy University.
• 1:24:46
  My son's name is Troy. That's how much of a fan.
• 1:24:49
  You didn't name any of your five boys, Wichita, or shocker?
• 1:24:52
  I'm just guessing knocks. Oh, my husband went to
• 1:24:55
  Tennessee. So, we have a little bit of
• 1:24:56
  that, but what am I? I really good friends.
• 1:24:58
  He's the head coach at UAB. He was RGA at Mississippi State.
• 1:25:01
  He went to Tennessee as well, and his son is knocks.
• 1:25:04
  That's awesome. It's a, it's a great name
• 1:25:06
  though. Long as you kept Ville out of
• 1:25:08
  that and don't name them. Knoxville Knox is a great great
• 1:25:12
  name, but yet to think that like my alma mater.
• 1:25:15
  Troy is competing against LSU and Florida State.
• 1:25:18
  In Louisville is ludicrous, and I love my mother is doing
• 1:25:22
  amazing job. I love Mark and Michelle the
• 1:25:23
  head coaches. They're, they're some of the
• 1:25:25
  best people in the world, but it's not, it's not reality.
• 1:25:27
  They I think repeating the same. So what's the bigger issue here?
• 1:25:33
  That the kid wants to be the one Bust or the parents when they're
• 1:25:39
  talking amongst their neighbors. Once the brag that their kid
• 1:25:43
  went to division one. Yeah, you know I've interacted
• 1:25:49
  with a lot of very reasonable parents through this, you know.
• 1:25:52
  So one thought you were going to say that, right?
• 1:25:55
  A lot of reasonable parents. Good.
• 1:25:57
  Yeah. Maybe they really good job of
• 1:25:59
  Faking it in the beginning. But most of these parents have
• 1:26:03
  been, you know, I'm most of the time, I'm encouraging these
• 1:26:06
  parents to be involved because they are very reasonable, okay,
• 1:26:09
  you need to go on the visit with your kid, if you can because you
• 1:26:12
  just having a presence there and you have a sound reasonable
• 1:26:16
  perspective is going to be positive thing.
• 1:26:19
  So I haven't seen, you know, I haven't seen that live now.
• 1:26:23
  I have have interacted with the parent that the kid didn't want
• 1:26:26
  to be division. And because they wanted to have
• 1:26:29
  other interests and they didn't want to, you know, and the
• 1:26:32
  parents didn't like hearing that for me sometimes, I'm like, the
• 1:26:34
  mediator, you know, between this is what the parents want this.
• 1:26:38
  What the kids want? Let's get on the same page.
• 1:26:39
  Let's make sure you guys understand each other and they
• 1:26:43
  didn't like to hear that, you know.
• 1:26:45
  So but whatever it is what it is.
• 1:26:47
  Yeah. We're there athlete goes.
• 1:26:49
  But yeah. No I think it's, you know, a lot
• 1:26:53
  of it is just them just being aware of the process and part of
• 1:26:57
  Of it. You know, one of the biggest
• 1:26:58
  reasons I started this business is because there's a company out
• 1:27:02
  there that kids are paying two to three thousand dollars when
• 1:27:07
  they're sophomores in high school for recruiting service.
• 1:27:11
  And I'm getting Tom too late, you know?
• 1:27:14
  It's like don't you know, don't do that.
• 1:27:16
  Like I had spoke out at Reno and I do Mom come up to me and she
• 1:27:19
  said, I've been paying $150 a month for my freshman boy,
• 1:27:22
  Poulter, and High School. And she's like, after I listened
• 1:27:26
  to you talk, I've canceled it already, you know, I saw her
• 1:27:28
  like the next day. And so luckily, she was in a
• 1:27:31
  situation where she cancel it, you know, but some other ones
• 1:27:34
  like they've put that money into it.
• 1:27:37
  And there's good things about those Services, they have a
• 1:27:39
  database, they can it's easy to sort schools, you know.
• 1:27:42
  So there's positives but what they're selling is this like
• 1:27:45
  recruiting coaching, you know, and a lot of most of the time
• 1:27:48
  those recruiting coaches don't understand our sport, they don't
• 1:27:51
  understand the ins and outs and every sport so different that
• 1:27:54
  You know, there's not, it's not worth the money, you know.
• 1:27:58
  Now, but being in the database might be worth it.
• 1:28:00
  I don't know how much that cost compared to the whole big
• 1:28:02
  package, but yeah, so that's I'm trying to kind of combat that,
• 1:28:08
  you know, like you don't have to do that.
• 1:28:10
  If you have these resources, talking about those services and
• 1:28:13
  I'm with you in regards to, when I coached, I never use those
• 1:28:17
  service. No matter what we're there.
• 1:28:18
  I was at the Juco or up to the SEC because of what the reason I
• 1:28:22
  said that was what I wondered though is?
• 1:28:24
  I think you either ask that question or someone else has
• 1:28:26
  asked that question before on Twitter, and I like to amplify
• 1:28:28
  questions like that to help create this discussion and
• 1:28:31
  conversation. And, you know, there was I don't
• 1:28:35
  know if it was split 50/50 but it was certainly not 100%. 50%
• 1:28:39
  of the people responded to. Oh yeah I'ma call it on
• 1:28:42
  Brookside here. Know what a waste like it
• 1:28:45
  specially in 2023 with Mi split and you know videos on Flo Flo
• 1:28:52
  track and every newspapers online.
• 1:28:54
  I can find every stat in the world.
• 1:28:56
  I don't need someone. Tell it takes me 2 seconds.
• 1:28:58
  You know, it's going to take you point two seconds.
• 1:29:00
  When we start using chat, gbt to look up recruits.
• 1:29:03
  But then another the other side, the other 50%, there were
• 1:29:08
  several coaches. I said, oh yeah, like I've
• 1:29:10
  gotten several kids every year or several kids in my time frame
• 1:29:13
  here so I do so. So I kind of don't want to
• 1:29:17
  automatically pooh-pooh it either you know, saying yes but
• 1:29:20
  I am like I never saw value what it but I don't know.
• 1:29:23
  Yeah. The same as Music and that's how
• 1:29:25
  I was like super desperate, like hey we need walk on women to
• 1:29:30
  fill our Title, Nine requirements.
• 1:29:33
  Like we need you know, something or just you know those types of
• 1:29:36
  scenarios. But but I do think there's
• 1:29:38
  coaches that use it to you know there may be they are at a level
• 1:29:41
  that they're in AI school that's growing and developing and they
• 1:29:44
  just need bodies attract program going.
• 1:29:47
  So they they don't know that the kid that was for that our 12th
• 1:29:53
  of the district meet wants to Tracking college right now that
• 1:29:56
  kids on NCSA what you know, recruiting service now, they
• 1:30:00
  know that, you know, so I think there's value for there's value
• 1:30:04
  for kids, that just want to opportunity anywhere like
• 1:30:09
  anywhere in the if you want an opportunity where the country
• 1:30:11
  you can put your name in there and then coaches out to you and
• 1:30:14
  those coaches that just need, you know, need kids because most
• 1:30:17
  of the higher level kids aren't on there, they don't need to be
• 1:30:19
  on their, right? And I was just talking to a
• 1:30:22
  college coach the other day about going in.
• 1:30:23
  Recruiting These bigger State meets and National need and how
• 1:30:29
  I do, they're talking about how they feel, like some other
• 1:30:31
  coaches are better Hustlers and they are, you know, and going
• 1:30:33
  and talking to Kids and find them kids and, and they're kind
• 1:30:36
  of guy just like to have more just like, a really evaluate at
• 1:30:39
  those meats. Like, I want to go chase people
• 1:30:40
  down as much. I just want to evaluate and it
• 1:30:43
  was like yeah, you can find every kid now on social media.
• 1:30:46
  Basically you know, and that's you know, that's my job is to
• 1:30:49
  help kids get on social media. Like put your real name on
• 1:30:52
  there, put your school, put your You know, here's a list of
• 1:30:56
  things you need to have. So the coaches can find you.
• 1:30:58
  What? What's your Twitter handle?
• 1:31:00
  Exactly, right, my name is on there though.
• 1:31:04
  You're on my show, Brooke. I get to put a little bit.
• 1:31:06
  All right. It doesn't matter.
• 1:31:09
  You know, as long as your name. I agree with that.
• 1:31:12
  Yes. But so so those things, you
• 1:31:16
  know, is trying to help kids understand that.
• 1:31:18
  And and so. So I don't know.
• 1:31:20
  I think, like I said, it's interesting smacking lips.
• 1:31:23
  Speaking of social media, I'm going to talk for a lot of
• 1:31:26
  coaches right here. If you could teach recruits to
• 1:31:28
  do a little research before they diem someone, and just say, I
• 1:31:33
  love your school, I'd like to run their, you know, I haven't
• 1:31:36
  coached in 17 years and I hear coaches complain about it.
• 1:31:40
  I'm like, I'll have been coach for 17 years and they DME.
• 1:31:43
  All right. I get it.
• 1:31:44
  I get it at least once a week. Hey coach love your school would
• 1:31:48
  love to run for you and I want I kind of, you know I did the
• 1:31:51
  funny thing is like oh what do you like about my school?
• 1:31:54
  Like you know, was it location? I got love your tradition, your
• 1:31:57
  cultures Echo. What was your most like, what
• 1:31:59
  stood out to you the most? I was like look man, I'm not a
• 1:32:02
  coach and by the way, I'm pretty sure 99.9% of those have been
• 1:32:05
  boys as well. I don't know if that plays into
• 1:32:07
  it or not, I just thought about that.
• 1:32:09
  But now like I don't want to ever Dissuade or put down a 17
• 1:32:16
  18 year old? Yeah, they're kids.
• 1:32:19
  So I'll respond back and say hey I love your hustle like I do
• 1:32:23
  like that to me that's the equivalent of you know we've had
• 1:32:26
  coaches on here that had shared stories of, I wrote 400 letters
• 1:32:30
  to find a job that's hustle. I'd love that.
• 1:32:32
  I don't, I don't fall in love with the medium.
• 1:32:35
  I don't care if it's a text, a handwritten letter, pigeon mail
• 1:32:39
  to me, it's almost a, if someone reaches out like, that's a that
• 1:32:42
  to me, that that's the What I love, right?
• 1:32:44
  So a kid reaching out on DM on Twitter versus emailing versus
• 1:32:48
  showing up at your doorstep to me is all this like made you've
• 1:32:50
  made efforts. Oh, I love the hustle.
• 1:32:52
  And always tell me like, I love your hustle.
• 1:32:54
  I love that you're reaching out. Next time.
• 1:32:56
  Read the bio a little closer because I'm not a coach.
• 1:33:00
  Right? But, you know but you know, just
• 1:33:02
  do a little extra just do one more step.
• 1:33:06
  I hear some coaches, I say, oh yeah, I won't respond or and I'm
• 1:33:08
  like, oh, I don't like that. I'm the biggest fan of coaches
• 1:33:11
  out there and I can still not like some of the things that we
• 1:33:13
  do. I don't like that.
• 1:33:15
  You're still Tom was 17 18 year old kids?
• 1:33:18
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 1:33:19
  Kids their kids. Our kids, our brains are still
• 1:33:20
  forming here. Help them out.
• 1:33:22
  You got to write a whole book back to, I know you're busy, but
• 1:33:25
  if you could just take two seconds, a hail of your hustle
• 1:33:27
  kid, but we don't even have a voice.
• 1:33:30
  Program in this program. You know, you reaching out to
• 1:33:32
  the wrong person. Good luck to you.
• 1:33:33
  You know. Yeah.
• 1:33:35
  If you can, somehow teach all recruits to just cry.
• 1:33:38
  Yeah. Okay good.
• 1:33:39
  I have a free video on my website on how to reach out to
• 1:33:41
  coaches. Oh good.
• 1:33:43
  Watch that so I'm trying, I'm trying it, that's part of this,
• 1:33:46
  I'm trying to make, you know, jobs easier on coaches, you
• 1:33:49
  know, make kids more accessible. Help them understand.
• 1:33:52
  You know what to expect and make sure when you share those and,
• 1:33:54
  you know, I'm pretty much only on Twitter.
• 1:33:56
  That's my main Jam. Their tag me like in a comments
• 1:33:59
  that I see it. Cuz I want to retweet, I want to
• 1:34:01
  amplify the that's those are, you know, I have a lot of kids
• 1:34:03
  actually that follow me on Twitter athletes, you know, high
• 1:34:06
  school and college athletes. So anytime even things like
• 1:34:09
  that, it's like, okay, that doesn't help the greater
• 1:34:10
  coaching body, but it does help the greater coaching body
• 1:34:12
  because it's educating 14, 15, 16 year old kids, you told a
• 1:34:16
  great story earlier Brooke about when you were at Kent State and
• 1:34:21
  you would call a recruit. They would say, yeah, I'm
• 1:34:23
  looking at Louisville and you like crap, I'm not, yeah, I'm
• 1:34:27
  not getting this kid. Just scratch that kid up and
• 1:34:29
  then you were Oval and you're recruiting a kid.
• 1:34:31
  And they would say something like kids thinking like, well
• 1:34:34
  they're gonna offer the moon. Both things can't be right.
• 1:34:38
  What is actually right? Depends on the athlete, you
• 1:34:42
  know, depends on what they care about.
• 1:34:44
  Right? Some kids, the finances are the
• 1:34:45
  most important thing and it should be from where they come
• 1:34:47
  from, and there's other kids that, you know, the more
• 1:34:51
  resources that a program are, is what they care about, you know.
• 1:34:55
  So that's, you know, that's a tough thing is like, like, when
• 1:34:58
  I started this I'm like, I don't want Want to do a lot of
• 1:35:00
  one-on-one Consulting, because that's in the evening time,
• 1:35:04
  right? That's all he can't.
• 1:35:05
  That's where the time that I'm trying to spend with my kids
• 1:35:07
  when they're home, but it's still part of it, right?
• 1:35:13
  Because everyone to Journey. So unique, you know?
• 1:35:16
  So I'm going to try to create as much content as I can to make
• 1:35:19
  families feel like they don't need that.
• 1:35:22
  But there's still going to be families that need that because
• 1:35:24
  they have a really unique situation, you know?
• 1:35:27
  And so, yeah, just just depends. But I think the point of that
• 1:35:33
  story is to show that that impostor syndrome happens with
• 1:35:36
  college coaches. Hmm.
• 1:35:39
  And so because it's happening with the athlete and the coaches
• 1:35:43
  sometimes and so it's to encourage the athletes like
• 1:35:48
  continue to show your interest in that school because they make
• 1:35:52
  it off the phone and think. Yeah, you're not that interested
• 1:35:54
  in, you make it off the phone, I'm thinking like you are really
• 1:35:56
  interested but you don't know if they're really that interested,
• 1:35:59
  you know. And sometimes those things
• 1:36:01
  happen. And then the communication
• 1:36:02
  doesn't continue and ultimately, that could have been a great
• 1:36:04
  fit. Yeah.
• 1:36:06
  How do we, you know, when we're recruiting?
• 1:36:09
  You know, we're adults recruiting the college coach and
• 1:36:13
  we're again, we got to remember, like, we got to have them in my
• 1:36:16
  opinion. We need to have more grace for
• 1:36:19
  these kids that were recruiting more traditionally, recruiting
• 1:36:21
  the 17 18 year old kid. I will tell you but I can't
• 1:36:25
  stress that enough. Even if your Juco recruiting
• 1:36:28
  typically their 20 year old Is there still kids?
• 1:36:31
  So we can have more grace for these kids.
• 1:36:34
  How do we both sides? By the way that the athlete, the
• 1:36:37
  recruited athlete in the coach? How do we be more open and
• 1:36:40
  honest with each other during the recruiting process?
• 1:36:43
  And what I mean by that is you brought up a really good point.
• 1:36:45
  It depends on the kid and the parents, the situation, right?
• 1:36:48
  Some kids, a certain cost of a school isn't a problem but they,
• 1:36:54
  you know, they really want the swag then.
• 1:36:56
  Okay. They're if they're, you know,
• 1:36:57
  they realize they're not going to get a A fried quarter ride.
• 1:37:01
  So they want to make sure that the school that gives 10 shirts
• 1:37:04
  a year, four, pairs of shoes, whatever, whatever, right.
• 1:37:08
  And that's okay, that's cool. Like that's like, I think that's
• 1:37:10
  good to know because if you're one of those schools and okay,
• 1:37:13
  maybe I want this kid as a walk-on or books or whatever, or
• 1:37:16
  if you're the opposite, if you're a school who does one
• 1:37:18
  shirt, one shoes. I've been there then don't waste
• 1:37:22
  your time. It's okay, or maybe it's a kid
• 1:37:25
  who comes from a disadvantaged economic area.
• 1:37:29
  And it's like, oh, I only To school, if I have a full ride
• 1:37:31
  like we just don't have the money.
• 1:37:33
  And yeah, I'd love to have shoes because I like shoes.
• 1:37:36
  I don't care. I need my education.
• 1:37:38
  Paid for so mr. And mrs.
• 1:37:40
  Coach, I need to know from the giggle.
• 1:37:42
  So there's a pet peeve of a coach, right?
• 1:37:44
  The kid that comes up and says, can you give me a full ride?
• 1:37:47
  I love that question. I do.
• 1:37:50
  That's crazy. Every culture every coach
• 1:37:51
  listen, right now is going. I hate that question.
• 1:37:53
  You gotta earn yourself on the team.
• 1:37:55
  Yes, I get all that but now, you know, that kid situation and You
• 1:38:00
  get to decide do I move forward because you might possibly be a
• 1:38:03
  full ride for me or do I tell you?
• 1:38:04
  Hey, I really appreciate that. I understand your situation.
• 1:38:08
  I would I would not be looking at a full ride.
• 1:38:10
  So let's not, let's not waste your time.
• 1:38:13
  Let's not waste my time. How do we get more truthful with
• 1:38:16
  ourselves recruiting? Yeah, I know that's why I love
• 1:38:18
  International recruiting Because typically that's in the first
• 1:38:20
  email this is our budget you know?
• 1:38:24
  But no I think it's hard because sometimes now that you can talk
• 1:38:29
  to juniors right, those beginning conversations coaches,
• 1:38:33
  don't know what they're going to offer that athlete so they may
• 1:38:37
  have an idea, but maybe they have this breakout junior year,
• 1:38:41
  you know, or maybe their circumstances change at their
• 1:38:43
  school work and transfers and money does open up or so coaches
• 1:38:47
  are trying to keep their cards helped I typically as long as
• 1:38:50
  they can because they don't know what's going to shift the, you
• 1:38:53
  know, so I you know, I I put it on, I did a seminar on the
• 1:38:57
  finances of college and these types of questions Questions,
• 1:39:00
  like, how do you navigate this as a recruit in as parents and
• 1:39:06
  at some point, if the finances are important, like you want to
• 1:39:09
  have, you want to have an understanding what that looks
• 1:39:10
  like before you go on an official visit and waste?
• 1:39:13
  You can, it's not a waste, it's so good experience but it's dry.
• 1:39:16
  Those are draining. And now there's unlimited
• 1:39:18
  official visits, every screw can go on as many of you know, So,
• 1:39:23
  you know, the timing of when the last us questions, I mean, II
• 1:39:26
  called a girl. The first time I called her on
• 1:39:29
  the phone with, in a minute, mom gets on the phone and says, are
• 1:39:32
  you now for my daughter full scholarship within a minute, the
• 1:39:36
  first phone conversation, right? And wasn't that girl wasn't
• 1:39:40
  worth the full. She's were fifty percent.
• 1:39:41
  So it's easy just to walk away, right?
• 1:39:43
  But even if she was, how that was approached, to me was okay,
• 1:39:47
  this mom would cares way more about money than her daughter's
• 1:39:50
  well-being, but Brooke No, you can't assume that I'll move it
• 1:39:57
  came off, you know, that's how you received it.
• 1:39:59
  I get that. I received, I'm going to play
• 1:40:01
  the other side of it, with the cost of college.
• 1:40:06
  Today's today, the amount of student debt.
• 1:40:10
  The amount of crazy not needed student debt out there.
• 1:40:15
  A lot of parents are paying for their kids.
• 1:40:17
  By the way, my kids are probably listening at some point.
• 1:40:19
  I'm not paying for your college. I just know.
• 1:40:21
  It's not happening. You better get a job.
• 1:40:22
  Job. I'm not one of those.
• 1:40:24
  Real be like, how much y'all from?
• 1:40:25
  I don't care because they paying for.
• 1:40:26
  So, you know, for what do you want coach?
• 1:40:28
  But knowing that they are probably going to be on the hook
• 1:40:32
  for some amount of money. Is it that an OK question?
• 1:40:34
  And don't you did you not like knowing that on that very first
• 1:40:38
  phone call and not your 20th phone call great right now?
• 1:40:41
  No, I think it's it's but there's got to be some tact,
• 1:40:44
  right? Like if that's how the mom's
• 1:40:46
  going to be, she was very abrasive, right?
• 1:40:48
  With, like, grab own. Okay, Brooke Brooke, don't you
• 1:40:51
  like that? What I mean by that?
• 1:40:52
  That is don't you like knowing that's how Mom was on the first
• 1:40:55
  phone call about to tell you when you walk away, right?
• 1:40:57
  Yep, not everybody. Is the weather things.
• 1:41:01
  You have to learn in sales and that's what recruiting is, you
• 1:41:03
  know, that better than anybody. Brooke is not everyone is your
• 1:41:06
  customer. And so I like to know from the
• 1:41:09
  get-go, same thing happens. Brooke you call me up.
• 1:41:12
  Mike, how much are these pole? Vault poles and I want 20 of
• 1:41:15
  them for free. Oh Brooke, thanks for calling.
• 1:41:18
  Thanks for letting me know right off the get-go.
• 1:41:19
  That we're not your manufacturer multiple.
• 1:41:23
  Here's the thing though, is that parents they are educated in
• 1:41:27
  this space? Well enough.
• 1:41:29
  To know how to operate. Right?
• 1:41:33
  They don't understand. They think it's football or it's
• 1:41:36
  either full. Sure.
• 1:41:40
  So that's where they don't. You know, they think if they go
• 1:41:42
  on an official visit with their kid, they're going to look like
• 1:41:44
  a helicopter parent. So they don't come in the coat
• 1:41:47
  and now we're kind of like what's and it's where the
• 1:41:49
  parents didn't come like they have the finest.
• 1:41:51
  I didn't think, you know what I mean.
• 1:41:53
  So that's the reality. Is that.
• 1:41:55
  Yeah. Like do I want to know like
• 1:41:57
  genuinely up front like what they care about like for sure
• 1:42:00
  but sometimes he's there. These parents are trying to play
• 1:42:03
  this game. They don't understand sure
• 1:42:04
  because they're trying to set them, their kids up at best,
• 1:42:07
  they can, but they don't understand same with coaches,
• 1:42:10
  right? Same with High School coaches,
• 1:42:12
  they're trying to navigate things to help their athletes
• 1:42:15
  and in the end, they're hurting their athletes, you know.
• 1:42:18
  Okay, I agree with that. I read that.
• 1:42:20
  There's some coaches like that. I agree.
• 1:42:21
  There's some parents like that and we'll we won't argue on
• 1:42:24
  What's That percentage. Is it majority or not?
• 1:42:26
  Don't know, I don't believe so, but whatever.
• 1:42:29
  There's another party involved in this.
• 1:42:30
  And, you know, I am There's no one bigger fan of track coaches
• 1:42:35
  in college track coaches. In this example, then meet my
• 1:42:38
  whole life is dedicated to uplifting and honoring what
• 1:42:41
  coaches on. All levels are doing the impact
• 1:42:44
  that they make on young people in measurable.
• 1:42:47
  There's a third person in that, that triangle used to just give
• 1:42:52
  the example of the high school coach who whether it's ego or
• 1:42:55
  just want to do what's right for their kid wants to get them to
• 1:42:58
  the biggest scholarship. At the biggest place, there's
• 1:43:00
  the parent there's a Kid, by the way, involves me, that's for
• 1:43:03
  there's a college coach. What role does the college coach
• 1:43:06
  play in? All of this little kerfuffle
• 1:43:08
  that we got going on here? Yeah, yeah, it just depends on
• 1:43:13
  the college. Coaches going to play in my
• 1:43:15
  perspective. The college coach is going to
• 1:43:16
  play it. What's most advantageous for
• 1:43:18
  them, right? So why can't the parent and the
• 1:43:21
  kid do that? Oh, they can.
• 1:43:22
  But the college coach holds all the cards, they understand the
• 1:43:25
  landscape. Hmm.
• 1:43:27
  The kids and family don't yet once they understand the
• 1:43:30
  landscape and absolutely, you know?
• 1:43:34
  So that's what I'm trying to just help them with like, hey, I
• 1:43:36
  don't understand how this really works from the other side of it,
• 1:43:39
  you know, how to operate. I'm not trying to get parents or
• 1:43:42
  kids to weasel their way into a program.
• 1:43:44
  They're not a fit for right now. But you know, sometimes they
• 1:43:49
  don't understand that that kid has some strengths that a
• 1:43:51
  college coaches really going to Value, but that athlete doesn't
• 1:43:54
  know how to show those. It doesn't realize it's about
• 1:43:57
  Right. Like the kid that says I've been
• 1:44:00
  running track for 13 years. Well I that doesn't help.
• 1:44:03
  You know what I mean? That means you're really you're
• 1:44:04
  not that good still you know but the kid has been around a track
• 1:44:09
  for one year and they're at the same level as medically.
• 1:44:11
  You're more excited about that kid.
• 1:44:12
  Maybe that kid doesn't want to say, I've only been doing it for
• 1:44:14
  one year because they don't realize that's a strength,
• 1:44:16
  right? You know, great point so so
• 1:44:20
  yeah, but like as, you know, as a coach right depends on where
• 1:44:22
  you're at. Like so when I first got to
• 1:44:24
  Louisville and I'm trying to start a pull-up multi program
• 1:44:28
  Like, I'm desperate. I'm trying to get as many kids
• 1:44:30
  to come on. A visit to show that other kids
• 1:44:32
  that movable cares about these events, right?
• 1:44:35
  And so I'm doing anything, I'm hustling as much as I can.
• 1:44:38
  You know, well, three kids in and having a group of stablished
• 1:44:43
  I'm calling a kid on the first conversation that's developments
• 1:44:46
  in. Hey, tell me about the finances,
• 1:44:48
  you know, like, who's gonna are your parents going to help with
• 1:44:50
  that. And no, it's not me.
• 1:44:51
  All right man. All you need to like, you need
• 1:44:53
  to stay in state because coming out of state isn't worth it, you
• 1:44:56
  know. And then One right where before
• 1:45:00
  I'm like, hoping maybe they'll rise, you know, spend the money
• 1:45:05
  to do that, right? Right.
• 1:45:07
  But I don't have the time at that point in my career and I
• 1:45:09
  don't want to spend a time right going through those
• 1:45:11
  conversations you know? That makes sense.
• 1:45:14
  That makes sense. Yeah, I think there's in what
• 1:45:17
  you're doing, scratches what I'm about to say here.
• 1:45:19
  I think there's just so much education needed out there.
• 1:45:22
  I think there's a lot of black box stuff, I think there's a lot
• 1:45:25
  of a lot of ego. He's into it.
• 1:45:28
  It again, we talked about the high school coach, you really
• 1:45:30
  going to tell your kid? They're not deep.
• 1:45:31
  What I mean some will that's great.
• 1:45:33
  That's those are people I have a lot of respect for because
• 1:45:35
  they'll their truthful, no matter what, you know the moms
• 1:45:38
  and dads and their circles. What would you rather tell your
• 1:45:41
  neighbor that your kid? Got a scholarship to Louisville
• 1:45:44
  or got a scholarship to XYZ University of never heard of,
• 1:45:48
  you know, both by the way, they're both going to school.
• 1:45:50
  So it doesn't matter what the name of it is honestly, but
• 1:45:54
  there's ego and that same with the kid.
• 1:45:55
  Will you tell her the rest of their Seniors in high school
• 1:45:58
  like yeah, I'm going to University of Louisville or I'm
• 1:46:00
  going to Wichita State vs. I'm going to school.
• 1:46:03
  You've never heard of and have no idea where it is right there.
• 1:46:06
  So there's a lot of ego involved there.
• 1:46:07
  A lot of ego involved in the coaching, the college coaching
• 1:46:10
  side, right? Like how many times do you read
• 1:46:12
  this? Kind of tweet, just signed
• 1:46:14
  another Superstar excited for next year, I was wondering like
• 1:46:17
  who is that? Like Superstars a strong word
• 1:46:21
  like I want to know like four years from now tell me who that
• 1:46:23
  Superstar was and how they do. That's that's what I want to
• 1:46:25
  know. There's a lot of ego of, you
• 1:46:26
  know, I signed The best kids Etc.
• 1:46:29
  Things like that involved into it.
• 1:46:30
  So I think I just more education can only help now to close that.
• 1:46:35
  We're hitting our time limit here, bro.
• 1:46:36
  Going to be respectful of your time but I do want to know.
• 1:46:38
  I want to go back to that phone call Mom.
• 1:46:41
  One minute into the phone call, snatches the phone at a
• 1:46:44
  daughter. I don't know if he said, I was
• 1:46:45
  aware girl, daughter or son's hand and says, are you going,
• 1:46:48
  you said daughter, are you going to offer my daughter a full
• 1:46:51
  ride? I mean, you've been 100%
• 1:46:54
  transparent and authentic and humble today.
• 1:46:57
  Was your response. Like legit.
• 1:46:59
  What was your response? I know.
• 1:47:01
  Don't tell me what was in your head because I know that was
• 1:47:02
  different. We don't have a bleep moment
• 1:47:04
  here. What was your honest response?
• 1:47:06
  Are you getting my daughter? A full ride?
• 1:47:08
  Yeah, I'm pretty sure I responded with you know man.
• 1:47:11
  I've been on the phone with your daughter for less than a minute.
• 1:47:13
  You know, before we make any type of offer, we want to get to
• 1:47:16
  know who these athletes are. And if they're right fit for our
• 1:47:18
  school, and she said, yeah, maybe you didn't hear me.
• 1:47:22
  I said, yeah. It was tough, you know, and then
• 1:47:28
  the kid and up going to school that I'm sure she got a full
• 1:47:31
  ride at and she didn't get, she got not good at anything.
• 1:47:34
  She finished her career you know it's like dang it, you know
• 1:47:37
  Brooke. I don't like I went to more
• 1:47:39
  hours with you because I have, you know, I sit in this seat and
• 1:47:43
  I know it all now Brooks, you're going to be there because now
• 1:47:45
  you're not coaching. You're going to know it all now
• 1:47:46
  too. But like when you said that and
• 1:47:49
  I know you probably tracked her and, you know, it's like, oh and
• 1:47:53
  you know, you have a little bit ego.
• 1:47:54
  Ego is not bad bad. He goes bad, you have a good
• 1:47:57
  amount of Ichigo here, I know you looked at her results.
• 1:47:59
  Were like, she became with me. How to make you a superstar now?
• 1:48:04
  I know I don't know that you know say yeah right I don't look
• 1:48:09
  at the results of think that I look at it.
• 1:48:10
  A result of what man? Like I think they're chasing
• 1:48:13
  like the wrong thing but for maybe that wasn't the wrong
• 1:48:17
  thing but it was how the approach of it could have been
• 1:48:20
  the yes the okay I'm 100% on board with the robot.
• 1:48:23
  I think there's absolutely kids that if they can get the most
• 1:48:26
  out of scholarship, money somewhere, do that, that's the
• 1:48:28
  best thing for your family. Go do that like I, you know, I
• 1:48:32
  have, I just lose sleep over night of some kids that came out
• 1:48:34
  of state to Louisville. I'm Lolo, scholarship money and
• 1:48:38
  now they've got a hundred thousand dollars in debt in
• 1:48:41
  there. They are not making a lot of
• 1:48:43
  money, you know? And I've not had a great
• 1:48:45
  experience. Yeah, absolutely.
• 1:48:47
  You know that they, you know, do great things sure.
• 1:48:50
  But that's, you know, like stuff but that's that I will be on
• 1:48:55
  board with you every day. That might have been the right
• 1:48:57
  thing. You're exactly right.
• 1:48:59
  It might have been the tact might have been Completely
• 1:49:02
  incorrect. It sounds like it was incorrect.
• 1:49:04
  Yeah. Yeah, I will tell you and you
• 1:49:07
  you got you at three boys. First of all, God bless you.
• 1:49:10
  Holy cow. I've got two boys and a girl and
• 1:49:14
  so going in seventh grade going to fourth grade, you know, so we
• 1:49:17
  start you start thinking about college specially is someone
• 1:49:19
  who, you know coaching College you coaching caught you you
• 1:49:21
  probably already started think about man.
• 1:49:22
  Yeah, like for them to go to college if that's what's right
• 1:49:25
  for them. You know, I think the cost of
• 1:49:27
  college has gotten so much. I think every kid should go to
• 1:49:30
  wherever they can get a full ride.
• 1:49:31
  I'd because how many of us are going to the next level after
• 1:49:36
  college for track and field. Let's be real zero but you know
• 1:49:39
  again a couple there's few every year the majority of us aren't
• 1:49:43
  get your school paid for. I'm trying to teach my kids to
• 1:49:46
  play basketball, even though I hate it because I think every
• 1:49:49
  division 2 is still a full ride to my man.
• 1:49:50
  Just go ride the pine at some D to school and get it all paid
• 1:49:54
  for be a backup point guard. It's all good, man.
• 1:49:56
  You come out of school with zero debt in the degree.
• 1:49:58
  You can go make a career out of that.
• 1:50:02
  No, I I totally get your sentiment but I also think
• 1:50:04
  there's obviously there's value you're going to gain being
• 1:50:07
  around certain people during those four or five years that my
• 1:50:10
  absolutely more important than money right now, I'm just
• 1:50:14
  praying, not more important than 200.
• 1:50:16
  I mean if there's some schools are ninety thousand dollars a
• 1:50:18
  year. Now I know that crazy that's
• 1:50:21
  where your kids are going to go to school.
• 1:50:22
  You better do really well with this business.
• 1:50:24
  Yeah, yeah. I'm gonna get back into coaching
• 1:50:26
  at that point so it's oh yeah. There you go.
• 1:50:28
  I was like whoo that's a bad idea.
• 1:50:29
  Oh yeah, that's right. Free tuition.
• 1:50:32
  But now so it's it's interesting and but but now I'm, you know,
• 1:50:38
  the coaches out there that are listening.
• 1:50:39
  This that want to give me their perspective on recruiting from
• 1:50:42
  their levels. I'm all ears and always want to
• 1:50:44
  learn. And I am going to host a high
• 1:50:47
  school coaching Seminar June 25th, 7:00 eastern time.
• 1:50:53
  You can find it on my website and I'm going to help you
• 1:50:56
  educate High School, coaches Club coaches.
• 1:50:59
  Have a Q&A at the end and it's going to be free.
• 1:51:02
  For those that want to attend and just trying to help continue
• 1:51:05
  to educate the masses and maybe maybe tell their, you know,
• 1:51:11
  their athletes that. They don't need to spend 3 Grand
• 1:51:13
  on recruiting when they're freshman in high school, you
• 1:51:14
  know? Yeah.
• 1:51:15
  Please don't. That's exactly right.
• 1:51:17
  All right. All that information is going to
• 1:51:18
  be down in the show notes more than likely you are also have
• 1:51:21
  already seen tweets from me about that as well but we'll
• 1:51:24
  have Brooks website. We're going to wait, she's going
• 1:51:27
  to update her Twitter handle. I just know it so we're going to
• 1:51:30
  wait but we'll have that down in the show notes as well.
• 1:51:31
  Well, but Brooke, you know, a couple things here one.
• 1:51:35
  Thank you always grateful when someone comes and spends time
• 1:51:39
  with us. Again, I always say this is not
• 1:51:41
  an easy podcast to listen to and what I mean by that is it is the
• 1:51:43
  same 20 minutes, 30 minutes. We've been going at it an hour
• 1:51:46
  and 50 but it's also a hard podcast to be on as a guest
• 1:51:50
  because, you know, I'm sure the first time I reach down said,
• 1:51:53
  hey, would you like to be a guest on the show?
• 1:51:54
  And I said, I need a two-hour block.
• 1:51:55
  Your dude, I can't talk for two hours.
• 1:51:59
  Little gold. You did it.
• 1:52:00
  You did a great job. So just Thankful for your time
• 1:52:03
  today. 12. Just so grateful for your
• 1:52:07
  journey. I mean honestly it's very
• 1:52:08
  unique, I love it, I love that you were homesick 30 minutes
• 1:52:11
  away, Wichita State, that's real world stuff what I mean by that
• 1:52:14
  is other people are going through that today whether
• 1:52:17
  they're 18 year old College freshman, sore 38 year old moms
• 1:52:21
  or dads that and they're away from their families.
• 1:52:24
  Etc. That's a real thing.
• 1:52:25
  So I appreciate your openness and frankness with what that
• 1:52:29
  part of your story as well and then what you're doing today.
• 1:52:32
  You know, these are all nuanced conversations.
• 1:52:34
  There is no black and white here that it's you should be going
• 1:52:37
  every school for 10% or you should be going to every school
• 1:52:39
  four hundred percent etcetera. Division one's better for
• 1:52:41
  everybody versus an AI. These are new on situations
• 1:52:43
  because you know what? We're dealing with at the
• 1:52:45
  beginning and end of every day humans and everyone and you've
• 1:52:49
  made a great great, great points about this today.
• 1:52:52
  And in your social media, I really do appreciate what you do
• 1:52:55
  social media and content wise. We're dealing with people.
• 1:52:57
  And everybody's situation is different and unique.
• 1:53:00
  Just like every school and every Graham is different and unique
• 1:53:03
  because they're run by humans as well.
• 1:53:05
  The head coach, this isn't coaches.
• 1:53:06
  They're all humans as well and what they have their motivations
• 1:53:08
  for their group as well. So I think this is a great
• 1:53:13
  conversation. I'm so thankful that you are
• 1:53:15
  open to having it. I know I pushed back on you a
• 1:53:18
  lot of things but I think that's what's right for the
• 1:53:20
  conversation. I'm not just here to let you sit
• 1:53:21
  here nod and say yeah you know hopefully to help you in help
• 1:53:24
  me, you help me. You you we've talked about some
• 1:53:27
  things today that I have not thought about that.
• 1:53:30
  I'm a we're going to have more Conversations with other people
• 1:53:32
  about. So we can both on all learn
• 1:53:35
  together and grow the sport and grow this profession.
• 1:53:37
  That means the world to me coaching track and field.
• 1:53:40
  So Brooke, thank you so much. I'm so so grateful for your time
• 1:53:43
  today, I appreciate you as well, Mike.
• 1:53:45
  Thanks for waiting for the sport and for coaches and always, you
• 1:53:48
  guys deserve it, man. You're the best.
• 1:53:50
  I love it. Alright, thank you for being
• 1:53:51
  here and listening today. Really do appreciate you go
• 1:53:54
  down. I really, you know, we've had
• 1:53:56
  amazing guest here. We've talked a lot about several
• 1:53:59
  of the alums that we've had here, Brooke, Johnson Clifford
• 1:54:01
  Alto. Just amazing amazing people that
• 1:54:05
  we've had here. But it's topics like these and
• 1:54:07
  Brooke obviously amazing coaches.
• 1:54:09
  Well, I don't want to skip past that.
• 1:54:10
  But what she's doing now, this is unique in, this is, there's
• 1:54:15
  not a lot of people doing this out there.
• 1:54:17
  And there's not a lot of people doing it.
• 1:54:18
  Well, and I think not only Brooks background, but also were
• 1:54:23
  her heart comes from doing this, and her posture of, I'm going to
• 1:54:27
  learn. I want to know what she said.
• 1:54:28
  She already said, she want to talk to division, two coaches,
• 1:54:30
  Nei, High School cook, she wants it.
• 1:54:31
  She wants to learn. So I just encourage you to
• 1:54:34
  follow this journey. Go to her website, follow her
• 1:54:36
  and social, she's putting out some really maybe one of the,
• 1:54:39
  you know, I'm a big content guy. So, I appreciate what other
• 1:54:43
  people do. Good in a lot of content and
• 1:54:44
  she's doing some really valuable content.
• 1:54:46
  So, I highly recommend you go right now follower.
• 1:54:49
  She's a great follower there and you'll receive a lot of value.
• 1:54:52
  So, join us next week, we'll do it all over again.
• 1:54:54
  And be right back here at the guild, track and field.
• 1:54:55
  Connections podcast, thanks. Everybody have a great week