Latest / Big Talk About Small Business / Ep. 109 - Stop Faking Corporate: Lead Like a Founder

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Ep. 109 - Stop Faking Corporate: Lead Like a Founder · Big Talk About Small Business

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_02: I said you got to have a weekly review with the people involved.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_02: You really do.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_04: This is this is what we said we do this week.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_04: Are we doing it?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_04: It just takes a constantly going back to that thing.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: And most of us don't have the patience or discipline or the quote time to do that, but it's necessary.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_04: Here we go again.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_04: Eric's waiting on me, he says.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_04: Well, after he set his phone down 10 seconds ago.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: It's the way it is, though, isn't it?
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_04: It's how we roll, man.
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_04: It is indeed.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, just freaking roll.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_04: It is good.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_04: It's good to be here with you.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_04: You too, buddy.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_04: Always is.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: You look good.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks, man.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_04: You're getting younger.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_04: I am, man, with my little uh two-day beard.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, exactly.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_04: Cultivate that.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_04: You set the shaver on like the lowest possible setting again.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: And then just keep it look like that.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_04: Keep it tight, baby.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_04: Keep it tight.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so hey, we're back again with another episode of small business.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_04: Here we are in Rogers, Arkansas, in the beautiful podcast videos studio.com, I should say.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_04: Podcast videos.com studio.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_04: That's it, man.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_04: Um and it's a beautiful day outside.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_04: And today, we're gonna talk about the life and lessons of leadership.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's a really big topic.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_04: It is.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_04: It's a big topic.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_04: Where do you even start?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_04: Uh well, I don't know.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_04: Do you have any particular thoughts on giving us a historic perspective on leadership that you'd like to share?
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_03: I mean I mean you bust me out by my failure to prepare, man.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't really, other than I mean, I I don't.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I I think that um well, I know you've done some reading on past years and entrepreneurial leaders.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_04: Um I think one thing we both agree on, they don't fit one mold.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I mean that's why it's a little confusing to point it out because I just think that it's so there's it's just so complex, right?
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, it is.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: And even the with the word leadership, like I you know, I think that there is and it's worth mentioning this from my perspective.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_03: There is a leader in corporate.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then there's the leader as an entrepreneur.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna take notes today.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_03: Sweet, man.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Because the leader in corporate, I think, is a is a whole different um is a whole different skill set.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: The unfortunate thing, at least from my experience, is that there's a lot more content, there's a lot more direction, there's more books, there's more processes, there's more on corporate.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: On corporate, 100%.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_03: I mean disagree with you.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like in in there's a lot more research on corporate.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: Tremendous amount of research.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's there's a whole industry based on leadership in corporate.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: And you're right.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll be honest with you, I've met some absolutely fantastic leaders, you know, in the in the corporate side of things that I that I I do I do learn some lessons from, but I do find that they're not really always applicable in the entrepreneurship landscape.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_03: Because the the the difference is that you know, what I've seen is in corporate, there's a lot more resources.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_04: It's exactly what I was gonna say.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_04: Resources coupled with tremendous momentum.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, those two things.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: And and uh another thing is is uh financial stability to last long enough to contemplate, study, and execute good leadership principles.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's so that you don't have the entrepreneurship principles.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_04: I know again, I'm like one of my companies.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, I gotta pay some vendors today.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_04: I don't have any money.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_04: We're like six weeks fine.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_04: What kind of leadership principles getting exercised out of that?
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_04: I just need some cash now.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_04: No, I'm telling you, man.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, but yeah, you're right.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: And in my experience in entrepreneurship, leadership comes down to just you're doing and others follow what you do.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_03: Like you could speak to your blue blue in the face on leadership in small business, and the people will listen to you, but as soon as you walk out that door, like unless you're kind of practicing what you've been preaching to the T, because everyone's watching, you can do that in a bigger corporation because I think that you you have a little you have more of a narrow, you have you have a very narrow thing that you're actually doing.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: You're overseeing a department versus the entire company.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_04: Well, maybe it is the entire company, but there's a narrow view into what you're doing that is exposed to people.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_03: That and then there's also people underneath you that are taking care of more isolated areas.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_03: CEO of a major company, you have a CFO, you have a COO, you have a CMO, you have a chief business officer, you have who hopefully are some competent, highly compensated people.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so you can lead that group that leads these other groups that leads all these things, and it cascades down.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's that's those are that's where all the leadership discussions are at.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: But in an entrepreneurial landscape, when you're a small business and it's you and 10 other people, yes, like you don't like your leadership is legitimately like you're you're in the weeds and doing I agree.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_04: Can I say two things about that?
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, number one, this is precisely my problem with good to great, and everybody treats it like it's some kind of a Bible, and we all have to be level five leaders.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_04: Level five leaders work great in large organizations that have been around a long time with billions of dollars of revenue or capitalization.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_04: And those are the examples that are cited, yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, because there I can have no ego and I can, you know, do get the right people on the bus and all the rest of the bullshit that goes along with that, okay?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_04: And and not be charismatic.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_04: But when you have a small company that goes out the window.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_04: All right.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it'd be great.
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_04: We need to be totally replaceable.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_04: Good.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_04: We're not there yet, though.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_04: And we're not there yet.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_04: Can I talk about that?
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: It would be the worst mistake you ever made as an entrepreneur running a small business to be replaceable.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I know.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like, seriously, like, how are you going to do that?
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_03: Do you really want to be replaced when you don't like you're not like you replace, you get replaced when you exit.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_03: Not when or when the company grows to a sufficient level.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_03: But if you're a small business, don't even have in your mind, if you try to hire people that are smarter than you, you could be setting yourself up for some absolute disasters.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: Probabilities are you will set yourself up for disaster, in my opinion.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: If you hire somebody that's smarter than you in a certain area, they come in, they're going to try to run the area.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_03: It's going to be nothing but a massive conflict because that person that's smarter than you most likely came from a bigger corporation.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: They're not going to understand small business, the cash that you need today.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_03: And so everything needs to be relentless about going out and selling, building, whatever it takes to make sure that the thing works and operates.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: They don't understand that because there's not security in small business, there's not longevity, you know, there's not all these resources that you have to survive through these things.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_04: And that and that's um brings me to my other point um that I want to make um besides the the level five um uh uh issue.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_04: And um that is that um all split it out.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_04: No, uh lead lead leadership is really um is dependent on the situation.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um we can't necessarily generalize and say, well, this is the way one has to be.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there may be certain common characteristics, okay, that we could we could say are as generalizations, but there's always gonna be exceptions to it.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, every situation is different.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, but but I do want to come back though to to the other uh another thing I wanted to respond to, and based on what you were saying, you got to get down in the weeds as a leader in a small business.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um, that is, I don't, I've I've we probably said it on the show before, but I don't like the mantra that we need to work on our business, not in our business.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_04: We've got to work in the business.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, yeah, okay.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: Hell yeah.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_04: A, we need to do something productive that advances the business that people are willing to pay us to do.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: Constantly.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_04: Constantly.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_04: That's how we find out if our people are any good, is by working with them.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_04: It's how we find out how customers react or clients, yeah, based on interacting directly with them.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_04: It's how we figure out how long things take.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's how we figure out what the barriers are to doing a good job.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_04: All this, the only way we're gonna figure that out is by working in the business.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_04: Agreed.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_04: I agree.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_04: We've got to do both.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we've got to spend the time to sharpen our axe and figure out where we're trying to go and implement systems and all the other stuff that'll advance the business, right?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_04: As a business.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_04: But yeah, we've got to be in it.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: You really do, because and and I think that you know one of my biggest pitfalls that I keep finding myself in is whenever I start thinking I don't have to work with customers.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_03: Or be part of the sales process.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Or calling people, making connections, closing deals, giving demos of the product.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_03: I know, building the sell sheets, building the pricing model.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: Like you got to be in all of that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_03: In all of every problem.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_03: And opportunity.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, what do you know?
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_03: What do you no one on, I mean, click another big separator of the entrepreneur, and the depth by definition, they see a market and they take personal financial risk for their business.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's the entrepreneur.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: That personal financial risk is a big one because what happens is that I don't know of anybody that I've met that or rarely have met that as an employee of a company really cares about the financial well-being of that company.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, genuinely.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm not talking about There are some.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: There's some that's what I'm saying.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_04: But it's they have a psychological ownership of the situation.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's rare.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_04: It takes a that's a very dedicated individual, obviously.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Because if the company shut down, what are they?
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_03: They're worried.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: They get a new job.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_03: That's taking a personal financial worry about my personal life.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: And if the company does bad, then therefore I might be affected personally.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's different than as an entrepreneur.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: When I think about the company's finances, I immediately think about number one, the opportunity is lost.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_03: Number two, the people on the team aren't employed with me anymore.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: They're screwed.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_03: They're there's well, or or they're just they're not gonna be part of this.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: They lost the opportunity too.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, exactly.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: You know, and so it like all the time that I've spent working with these people, these that's gonna be decimated.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_04: All the customers or clients you have gone.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_04: They're not gonna be able to get any service for me, right?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the the vision's gone, the the company dies, the identity of that company, the self-sustaining business itself is dead.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not really worried about my personal income.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because just like anybody else, I can just go get a job.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_03: I worry about the business.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_04: I still worry about that though, because if you're personally on the debt or everything you have is at risk, for sure.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_04: Which it is for a lot of people.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you know, and and I uh like it could be worse than not having a job.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's that's just the owner.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: No, 100%.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, for sure.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, like, that's the perspective that I think that like as an entrepreneur, you and and so when that kind of comes back to the conversation is why you need to be in the business.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because no one else cares about the financial well-being as much as you do.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_03: As much as you do.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of times at all.
• 13:03
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, dude, I'm gonna be honest with you on it.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm I'm tired of sugarcoating it.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've rarely met people that care about the financial well-being of the company for that reason, except the entrepreneurs.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: Because there's not a personal tie.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_03: You need you need to get that.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_03: You need to get your phone.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: But there's not a personal tie, they don't have a financial risk associated with the company, so therefore they're not gonna be attached to it.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_03: And so my point is that if you don't work in the business, no one else is gonna be fine, is is as a personal.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: If you're a salesperson in a company, yeah, you're worried about your quota because you're worried that if you don't meet your quota, you're gonna lose your job.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Whereas as an entrepreneur, you're worried about your money.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_03: Or you don't make enough money to live, whatever.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_03: But as an entrepreneur, if you don't make sales, the company doesn't make revenue.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: And so all these other things happen.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: You got more to at risk, is what you're saying.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why you need to be in the goddamn business, in the sales calls, understanding all the problems, getting the feedback.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: Because you're therefore you're listening better.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_04: Exactly.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_04: Well, it's just it I can't tell you how many people.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, again, I think we've covered this on the show before that I talk to.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_04: They start a business, and they within two years, they're like, now I want to hire a manager.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_04: So I have this passive income coming in from this small business over here, and then I'm gonna do whatever I do in my other job.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_04: I'm like, give up.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_04: You just blew it.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, most of the time, the odds are that you just blew it.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: If that's your attitude, you're way too early to be thinking about that at the stage you're at.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, it isn't gonna happen.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: And that's why we've talked about it a lot, like when you work at a major corporation, I think it's extremely risk.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of hidden risk and problems of having those resources and being a great leader at a corporate environment and then trying to be an and then going into entrepreneurship.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because you can't, they don't, they don't marry up.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're if you're you could be an excellent leader at Walmart or Tyson, right, or whatever, and then you start your own business, and all those leadership principles that you've learned and practiced and studied and you know well, and you're a hero over here, you might find yourself in a really bad spot over here.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that comes back to there is a difference between a leader in an entrepreneur environment than there is in a big company.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I've even experienced that, and I'm sure you probably have too.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_04: Like if we take like our primary businesses that grew and grew and grew to a certain point, you know, if you take like Zwike White in his first iteration or whatever, where you've got good second tier, and the second tier as good people reporting to them, yeah, it's a totally different thing than when you come back and suddenly like you've got to do everything.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_04: It's starting all over again, or you start a new business, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_04: Where you're doing it all over again.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_04: And it takes like a little adjustment period to go through that.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now, at least you have the experience of you started it, so you have that perspective.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_04: But you know, when I when I think about people who are really successful in corporate America, and I do admire them.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_04: I do too.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_04: Doug McMillan, great example.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, there's like two or three things that stand out there.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_04: One is he did start out at a very low level doing.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: And so he got a chance to rise through the ranks and sort of see how everything worked.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't just come in from the outside and get this big monster to manage, right?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_04: That's one thing.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_04: The second thing is the people that really do well like that, they've got super high goals and expectations.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_04: Their goals are just a lot higher than most people.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_04: They're winners.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_04: They're going for that that brass ring out there.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_04: And it it's like, you know, me mediocrity or achieving a certain level of success that's better than their friends, but but maybe that doesn't mean anything to them.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_04: They want to maximize their potential.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_04: And they're just very, very goal-oriented, super disciplined people.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_04: No matter how much success they have, they keep reaching out for more.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_04: Keep perfecting.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_04: That's one, that's a quality I think that defines them.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_04: Not necessarily all smith small business owners think like that, though.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_04: They get to a certain level where they achieve what they want to achieve, and then maybe their motivation wanes or they get bored or what it, you know, whatever.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_04: And then and then the other um the other thing I think those people have um that not necessarily all small business owners or entrepreneurs have is uh again, you know, the emotional intelligence, the political uh uh skills that maybe you don't need so much when you're the ruler in a small business that can rule with impunity.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_04: You know what I mean?
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_04: 100%.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_04: So so they got those things going for them.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they're they're perfect at navigating people, yeah.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_03: And smart other smart leaders and how to they know all the the boxes and how to listen and how to be emotionally intelligent with them, and then they can for they they they pre they plan before they go into meetings.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_04: We both know Matt Waller, okay?
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_04: I'd like to think of Matt Waller as an example of somebody.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_04: He he he's like, of course, but I mean Matt can like negotiate all those things, yeah, yeah, and yet he's always got time, he's always got a smile on his face, he always knows how to navigate whatever that complex He always looks beautiful, appears beautiful, you know.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, I admire the heck out of it.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_04: That's a that's a special person.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_04: Most of us don't have all those attributes, okay?
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_04: So we're out here though in the small business.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_04: Maybe we don't need all those attributes, though, to be successful in a small business or an entrepreneurial environment.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_04: But what we do need is certain other characteristics, okay.
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_04: And those are, in my mind, um, we can talk about some of those, but what comes to your mind if you talk about like what characteristics does the small business owner slash entrepreneur need to have specifically?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_03: I think that specifically they have to have really committed, strong vision.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_03: And the ability to articulate that over and over and over again.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: Just a relentless focus, just relentless focus in where the top line goal is where they're going.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_03: Because everything between point A of vision scene to point Z of vision capture is nothing but a really nasty hairball in and distractions.
• 20:22
  SPEAKER_03: Because as you get more people on the team, the more the vision of the company becomes just it becomes more complex, it becomes more confusing, there's more distractions involved in it.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_03: So true.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so you you have to see that North Star every time you wake up.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: And everything, every every action that you take every single day has to be going towards that because no one else can feel that.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_03: They might be able to see it at times.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I go through this all the time.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: I went through it with all my previous companies.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: I'm going through with them now.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_03: The the my ability as the entrepreneur to see the vision and lock stuff, and I I can just like it's so crystal clear versus the vision of the people within the company is not the same.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, I know.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: People in the company will see it on a Monday morning meeting, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll see it for 30 minutes, and then when they walk out, they don't see it anymore.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that's not negative, that's just because we're in different roles and different seats.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that that's part of the leadership is that you have to see that.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you lose that, it become it really becomes devastating to the company.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just it, and you can't you can't put your hands on it.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, it's like whatever if you remember that movie, The Never Ending Story.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, like this Falcor?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_04: The nothingness is like just taking over, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_04: Remember Falcore?
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_04: It looked like a dog.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_04: It looked like bubbles on his back.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_04: Wish dragon or luck dragon.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_04: You got those bubbles on his back.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_04: But he looked just like a dog, though.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_04: Every time I fly Falcor, I just think of, yeah, a flying dog.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_04: If I had a son, I was gonna name him Falcor.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_04: I like that.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Falcor.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_04: But no, you're you're right about that.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_04: You know, it's funny because I just had a discussion with um having coffee with a former student of mine.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, you met the guy before the um uh you know, before this podcast today, and we were talking about valuation.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_04: He's like, you know, um he he he says, how do you really value these companies?
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_04: Because, you know, I I constantly beat on them that this multiple of eBid is a bunch of crap, yeah, unless it's just a steady state old line company that's basically been the same for a long time.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, we'll talk four, five, six, eight times, whatever multiple of eBit you want.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_04: Once I turn into a high growth company, yeah, I got a different scenario.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_04: Once I got a company that doesn't make any money, I got a different scenario.
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_04: I can't take a company and go, you lose money, therefore, your multiple of E-Bit is six times minus two million dollars.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_04: You owe$12 million.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_04: Pay me$12 million, I'll take it over for you.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_04: You have no value.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_04: No, the value, the value is based on the vision.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_04: And whether you can sell people on the fact that you will accomplish that.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_04: Are you making incremental steps along the way to achieve that vision?
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_04: If I can get people to understand that, they may see that in fact there is value to this damn thing, right?
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_04: And it's sort of the same thing when it comes to your employees, is what you're saying.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's the same sort of mentality.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: It is, and I and I'm not doing a good, the the best job, and this is where I'm really self-critical, is I'm of of visualizing the vision.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_03: Painting the picture, painting the picture with with with the right materials, which usually come down to the most simple way possible.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you have to you have to ladder step the vision where I can see the end, I can see Z.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: I can see it so clear.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: And the ladder to get there is kind of there, but who really gives a crap, right?
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_03: That doesn't matter to me.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: But it sure the hell matters to everybody else in the company.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_03: And they have to see step one, step two, step three.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: They can get a little bit of this, but if they can't see steps one through three, I can't always define all that either.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, sometimes we're gonna skip steps four and five, and we can't because we trust what we see, but nobody else.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's the thing, is I don't need it.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I don't need those steps, right?
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_03: But everybody else does, and I don't do a good enough job of of leveling out, and I think that that's there's a discipline to that leadership that I wish that I could that I could that that I want to do better at because I can promise you, like if on a monthly basis, I'm looking at that that ladder step and I'm continuously painting that picture that it's going to make the progress of the business a lot better.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_04: Um well, it is important, I think, for people to see incremental progress.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_04: It's motivational to that, right?
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, to feel like you're getting something done, yeah, is there's a gratification that comes from that.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: It says, oh, good, you know.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think that if you if you if you paint that picture, but then you don't insist on other people looking at it.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: And if it's not something that you're reviewing together as a team, then you're losing that as well.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_04: Just had that discussion this morning too, because the same guy was like, How do you so you go through the process and you develop a new strategic plan for a business, okay, or whatever, right?
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_04: But how do you make sure that they actually do it?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_04: And I said, one thing that I've learned is it's not good enough that let's have a mid-year check on our business plan.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_04: I said, you got to have a weekly review with the people involved.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you really do.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_04: This is this is what we said we do this week.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_04: Are we doing it?
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_04: You okay?
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_04: It just takes a constantly going back to that thing.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_04: And most of us don't have the patience or discipline or the quote time to do that, but it's necessary.
• 26:16
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• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Another thing I think is important leadership and entrepreneurship is you are the trainer in every single department.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be the one that kick starts the the training on that, and you have to be the one that that continues to come back and train.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, I was thinking the other day, like this is such a nemesis in business, right?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: But take for example a restaurant, you know, restaurant owner.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_03: If they trade if they set the rule on how you wash the dishes, they set the rule on how you wait on your customers, they set the rule on the menu items, they set the rule on the hosts, they set the rule on the transactions, right?
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: I get it.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: In the payment form, right?
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: And but they have to be the one that does that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_03: A corporate leader wouldn't do all those things.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_03: They have people that do those things.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: But as a leader in an entrepreneur business, you need to understand really, really, really well.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_03: It is absolutely 100% your responsibility and leadership on every single one of those things.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_04: That's why, you know, it's funny.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_04: Again, I was just thinking yesterday, what if I had a restaurant?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_04: And because I was reading about these turnaround stories that I have my students writing papers on right now, and I was grading papers.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_04: And one of them was a pizza restaurant.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_04: It was like going out of business, used to be good, you know, it's just like a chain, somebody handed it over to their daughter or whatever, it's all winding down, nobody cares.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_04: And then, you know, new ownership comes in, and lo and behold, whoa, they're do like 30% better the first year right away.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_04: I was thinking to myself, if I had a pizza restaurant, I would be involved in every single detail to make sure that it's the food is outstanding, the service is outstanding, there's nothing weird, there's no problem.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_04: Nobody answers the phone and sounds like they're dead.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_04: I mean, just all of it.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_04: I'd be involved in every single thing to make it good.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_03: You have to be, Mark, because guess what?
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: If you do not back to my original point about the finance thing.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_03: And again, I'm not being negative, it's just reality.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_03: But this is this is my problem as an entrepreneur.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: I have I have thought that things were real that aren't real for so long.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And now I'm old and I'm and I'm tired of acting like they're real.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_03: The the reality is that if you own this pizza restaurant and you depended on somebody, a manager that you hired, you go and order all the agreements or all the ingredients to my pizza, and you work with whatever vendor you want to.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: I trust in you, and I'm gonna go over here and watch this.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: I can swear to you.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, I know.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: I swear to you, you'll get the shittiest cheese, the worst pepperoni, whatever.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_04: It won't be laid out right on the pizza itself, right?
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_04: Or whatever.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_03: The boxes will come late.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: You'll be out of inventory.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, like you can't do it.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: And to live in a reality of where you can hire good people in a small business and they just take care of things the right way, yeah, that's not going to happen.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Your chances of it.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_04: Not early on, at least.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_04: Not in the early to mid stage.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_04: I'm talking startup, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, early to mid stage.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, because.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: To your point earlier, there's different phases.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: So again, in a second, that's the world, then you get or charged micro.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: That's right.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_04: You need to become a different leader.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_04: Now some people will say, well, that's when we need to hire professional management.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_04: And that's where I depart.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_04: I I'm not going to be replaced by professional management entirely.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: I can tell you that.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_04: Because yeah, maybe they can do certain things well, but if you lose the spark, that's the entrepreneur that's got the vision, then that just keeps relentlessly focusing on the vision, you'll fail too.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_04: You put up great systems and processes and everything.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_03: You just said the third thing that I think is required as the leadership as an entrepreneur is the energy.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, the energy.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's what the leadership is all about.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Sure.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_03: Is the energy you bring every day, despite the obstacles, despite the problems, despite the naysaying, the words no, all the doubts, the whining, the complaining, the tiredness, the exhaustion, the more time off, the more pay, all these things that are hovering in the business, you as an entrepreneur are still charging ahead.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_03: And I'll I'll give a great analogy, right, to this.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm making notes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_03: Corporate leadership is like General Patton.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Entrepreneurial leadership is like freaking Braveheart.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: We can all understand that.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Patton.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't right on the front line, right?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_04: Taking bullets.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_03: And he didn't start the war.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: Braveheart was both of those.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_03: I love entrepreneurship is summarized in the movie Braveheart.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: You remember when Mel Gibson showed up and the other, you know, Scottish armies were there, and they went to go, let's go talk to, you know, uh England's army before we fight.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_03: And Melbourne rides up there on his horse and his face is painted half blue.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: And he just goes in a circle as they're talking, and he's just giving the death smile to them the entire time.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Like that is entrepreneurship.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_03: Those other people on the horses negotiating, talking, being proper, being, you know, that's corporate.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: But there's nothing that it's just a difference.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_03: You're right.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_03: He was Mel Gibson that that scene was completely it was opposite.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_03: It was contrasting to what they were trying to accomplish.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: It was not normal.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: It was weird.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_03: They like they laughed at him.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why be normal?
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh man.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's required to start up a business.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's what's required to get going.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: And that energy, that fight, that grit.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: And guess what?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Braveheart had his own followers too.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: But they certainly weren't the entire country of Scotland.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't England, right?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: But he had his clan.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: And they made a massive difference in spite of all the big orgas the big organization and corporate.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we do.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_03: We're disruptors.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 33:07
  SPEAKER_04: Although that's a cliche now.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_04: I'm disruptive.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: Sorry.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_04: I it's just every cliche.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_04: I'm so damn tired.
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_04: I put something on LinkedIn the other day about storytelling.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_04: I am so tired of hearing that term.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_04: In fact, I was talking to my older brother, you know, who was the chairman of a hundred and some odd company group of WPP group.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_04: He told me he'd banned the use of that term years ago.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: Storytelling.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_04: He goes, I don't want to hear that ever again.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_04: Just don't ever say it.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_04: It's so funny.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_04: He thinks like, you know, it's like you know you're genetically related.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_04: But he's more polished than you.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_04: Oh, far more polished.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_04: Oh my God.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: He's a he's what you would call a leader, a corporate leader.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he was, exactly.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_03: And you're a cor you're an entrepreneur.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: He made the transition, though, a lot of way.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you either want you want that or you don't.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: Like entrepreneurs, I think when they hit that corporate leadership, stuff they won't do it.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like they they they don't want it.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're right.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_03: They just don't want it.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, you know, uh Ben, I want to come back to something that you were saying about um here that is one of our um uh points, talking points today.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_04: And I think it's important.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_04: 60% of small business owners cite uncertainty about the future is their biggest challenge.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_04: You know what?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_04: You can't worry about it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_04: There are things that you cannot control.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_04: The more you obsess about things that are out of your control, the worse off you're gonna be.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_04: Work on what's within your control.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_04: Again, I'll come back to Matt Lewis and his management philosophy.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_04: Matt's got an answer for any problem.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_04: If you ever want to talk to the guy about anything you're dealing with, he'll give you an intelligent response on how to deal with it.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_04: He says that's something he always tells his people.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_04: Stop worrying about what you can't control.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: Agreed.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_04: And focus on the things that you can.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: I agree.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_03: I had somebody uh uh just a few days ago that looked at me and she was like, I said, I haven't watched the news in 25 years.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_03: And she goes, Oh, Howie, you've got to watch the news.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, I don't watch the news.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And she's like, you've got to be involved in what's going on.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I you know why I don't?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, because it's negative.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_03: Well, because it's distracting.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't matter to me.
• 35:35
  SPEAKER_03: Like I've stayed so focused on what I have to do.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_03: I don't even have the time.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I can't like I don't, you know what I'm saying?
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: Because like it doesn't matter.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_04: I still take two happens and I I agree with you.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_04: Now, I the only place I'll say that though, that it does help is if you want to invest in the public stock market, you really have to tune into the news.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_04: No, you you have to because it impacts everything so much.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_04: That's not what we're in.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_03: No, I watch I watch industry news related to industry every day.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm constantly learning about AI.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm constantly, you know, I mean, just relentlessly.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_04: I could spend a tenth of the time that I do on it, and it's it's not helping.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_04: I I I totally understand.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that's something that you should change then, Mark.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I hear it.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_03: I hear you.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because just like Jim Morrison with the door said, the future's uncertain and the end is always near.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let it roll, baby roll.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_05: Okay.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_04: Well, there's two things you know are certain death and taxes, right?
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_04: The rest of it is not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_04: All right, hey, Mark, we got to wrap up, man.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_04: Well, let's do.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_03: Did you have one more point though?
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_04: Well, we got we gotta No, I mean, I think this is this is really good, though.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_04: We've really separated out maybe the difference in corporate and small business.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I think that that's to me, that's my big caution, right?
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_03: Don't get confused because I was confused for decades, man.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_04: Like I was thinking you're needing to be like a corporate and you're failing if you're Yes, that was it.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: But the whole time I'm leading, incidentally, just by being energetic, and I'm not even realizing that I'm that I'm leading.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_03: And like, what's that responsibility I really have over here versus looking over here and reading books and trying to be this type of leader?
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, no, for a for a team that I don't even have.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you make sense.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: You really do.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: You make a lot of sense.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, because what I found is that I have uh there's people that have worked with me in my companies that that have said that I'm a good leader for them, right?
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I really don't know, it certainly wasn't because I was practicing leadership principles from corporate America, but it was because I was relentless with the vision, I brought the energy, and I worked in the business, just like you said, dude.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's true.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_03: You do all those things.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: I clean that toilet seat.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, that's leadership.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_04: I know, and you got clean toilets here.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_04: Dude, I'm telling you, we talked about it.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_04: We've said that before, but every time I have to use the bathroom here, I'm grateful that it's such a delightful experience.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_04: Um that makes my heart warm.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_04: It truly does it.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_04: On that thought, it really does.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_04: We will end this.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_04: The fact that you enjoyed it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_04: Any other reason.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_04: And listen, there's I if you're a 67-year-old guy who drinks a lot of coffee and tea and has prostate problems, you'll be visiting that bathroom frequently.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: Um, great.
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_04: But no, no.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_04: Anyway, um, this has been great.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_04: And uh and and I I think we need to wrap it up, clearly.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_04: Um, another episode of Big Talk about small business.
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Big Talk About Small Business.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: If you have any questions or ideas for upcoming shows, be sure to head over to our website, www.bigtalkaboutsmallbusiness.com, and click on the Ask the Host button for the chance to have your questions answered on the show.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Stay connected with us on LinkedIn at Big Talk About Small Business.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: And be sure to head over to our website to read articles, browse episodes, and ask questions about upcoming shows.