Latest / Financial Planner Life Podcast / Taking a career leap: What’s holding you back? | Marcus Crowther

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Taking a career leap: What’s holding you back? | Marcus Crowther · Financial Planner Life Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone, it's Elena back um for this week's episode of the Financial Plan Podcast, my first episode of 2024.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_01: Very happy to be back in the hot seat.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: And this week I'm joined by Marcus Crowther, Client Services Associate MWC Group.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: In this episode, I'm really pleased to have someone that is excelling really well in their career, but definitely still within their infancy.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: We talk about how Marcus has seized every opportunity that has landed his way, has avoided that fear of failure, and has grabbed all those opportunities by the horns, which I think is excellent for our audience and individuals that are really keen to progress.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: We also talk about financial education in schools.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Marcus has seen the flip side, being a teacher and a student, um, accessibility within the industry, and how there's so many exciting opportunities for people who step into the profession to be the change that they want to see.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's the first question that I ask everyone.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I probably say this line every single time, maybe 2024, but but nothing's changed.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Um can you tell me a little bit about your career journey today and how you got to the point that you're at now?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's been it's been a bit of an up and down journey.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I didn't have a straightforward route into financial planning.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess it all sort of started around sixth form time, so like 16 to 18.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I didn't want to go to university.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: It was something that I figured out pretty early on.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is I hated sixth form and secondary education.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_00: I had a really tough time where I actually had quite a long battle with sort of depression and anxiety at that time.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_00: Thankfully, obviously, out of it now, nothing sort of bad came of it, but it was a really tough two, three-year period.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So university I thought would have made that worse.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: So I then actually got a job with Tui uh in an accountancy program.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_00: And then I was made redundant from a job before I even started it because of COVID.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I couldn't actually do that.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: So that was one where it was like, Jesus, is anything gonna work out?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I've got people telling me, oh, everything happens for a reason.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, I know, I'm sure it does.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up working in a secondary school, the same school I went to as a student, which was uh a weird experience going from calling someone Mr.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_00: Smith to then calling him Steve the next week or something like that.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh especially when they've known you since you're 12 years old.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I was teaching maths because I've always been sort of a numbers guy.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was always sort of focused on financials and maths in in school, never much of English or arts or anything like that.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then I saw an opportunity on LinkedIn to apply for a job in in Dubai, actually, with DeVere, who obviously quite a large company in the industry.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a moment where I was like, do you know what?
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: I might as well just go for it.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I don't really know where my life is going.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to uni.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to be a teacher forever.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: I know I want to work in financial services.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I applied for this job.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Recruiter came back to me, said, Yeah, really good.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: We'd like to go to the next stage.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then they were like, You're actually better suited to a role in Malta.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was fine for me.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been to Malta on holiday before.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's an English-speaking country, it's warm, it's nice, and uh, it's not far from home.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's a couple of hours.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So I ended up uh flying over there, working with DeVere for what, about a year?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: And that was my first sort of role in financial services, and it was a really, really good experience and a really negative experience at the same time.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: That there were so many pros and cons.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's a a lot of stories about the company as a whole and and sort of the ethos about it, but I also made friends for life and learned skills there that I've taken into my career now.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: And then after a year with with DeVera, I decided that they probably weren't the right company for me, as I mentioned on the sort of values, the way things are done there, and and just the way that the company operated.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked for another job.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to stay in Malta, I wasn't ready to leave yet.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I found a similar role working in the sort of client services and business development side of things, so the sort of route to being an advisor.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the company that I'm with now is is MWC Group, which is uh a much smaller, sort of bespoke firm based out of Switzerland with an office in in Malta as well.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I've been with them over a year and a half now.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: And the the sort of journey to where I am today, as I say, it's it's not been a straight line, but I don't think it ever is for anyone.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's almost like one of those heart machines where you're sort of going up and down and up and down.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I'm really happy with how it's gone.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_00: I've learned so many things along the way.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_00: I've had setbacks like not getting that job at Tui that actually worked out for me.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if I had to take that job, I'd be turning up to an office in Luton as opposed to an office in Malta every day.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it's uh it's worked out for me in the end.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's funny that you say that everything happens for a reason.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Because as you said, at that moment in time, you're there like, does it?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm just about to start something and you know there's a pandemic hitting the world, it doesn't feel like this is happening for any particular reason.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: But at this point, upon reflection, you can see how it's sort of allowed you to get to the point that you're at now.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I think building on the fact that when you're in six form and you're at university, you know that you wanted to get into financial services.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: I think previously, you know, a lot of the past generation that are now financial advisors that might be sort of looking to retire in the near future, you know, the likes of my father and things like that sort of fell into it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's very often what you hear.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: But I think more and more we hear from up-and-coming advisors that we know that that was an industry that they really wanted to get into.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, what was it about your sort of yourself that made you think, okay, I want a career within financial services?
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think the main thing was that it's such a useful career to have.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: And from my experience of one, being a student in a school, and then two, being a sort of teacher there, you don't learn these skills.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: You don't learn the skills that you need to live your life, which is mental to me.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you don't learn the budgeting, you don't learn how to make a financial plan or about taxes and mortgages.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: So the fact that I could have direct exposure to something like that and learn whilst I'm working was a massive thing for me because I then learned all of these skills that I never got the opportunity to do in the past, whilst also having the opportunity to help others learn those skills or just help them in general with their sort of financial planning.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: So that for me was the big thing to get me into the industry.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: And also, like you mentioned, a lot of people maybe fell into the industry at first.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: There was no real requirements on sort of doing your qualifications or anything like that.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of uh sort of advisors that perhaps that they hadn't necessarily done anything to get that title other than just apply for a job.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, uh, obviously you have to go through a certain process, whether it's a CII qualification, your CISI, whatever it is.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a massive stigma around advisors, isn't there?
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I've spoken to people where you say the word financial advisor and they almost sort of shrill up like that because someone's had a bad experience in the last 10 to 15 years, or you think about sort of 2000 to 2010, and people sort of blame the industry for that.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: So to be able to change that sort of stigma, even if it's just for one, two, three people, I think is a massive thing and something I'd like to try and achieve.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and you also said though at school you were much of like a maths person.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_01: So that sort of skill set you felt like aligned um with a career within the profession as well.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if I wasn't playing sport, then the next favorite thing that I'd want to be doing was maths.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh from a fairly early age, I realized that I wasn't gonna be a professional sportsman, so I was like, right, I need to focus on what the next best thing that I'm good at.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: So as I say, that the numbers were always better for me because I found that it was nice knowing in maths there was an answer, there was a right and a wrong answer.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas when I was sat in an English classroom, they'd be like, Oh, well, there's no wrong answer, but we're still gonna mark you wrong for this or or this could be right or whatever.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I I hated that idea.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: I like something to be very objective, yes, this is right, or no, this is wrong.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and then I guess also as well, there's lots of people within financial services, uh, you know, lots of people that are in that sort of like infancy of their career that want a role within financial services, financial planning, and can really struggle to make that a into fruition, can spend a lot of time, and I'm sure there'll be individuals within the audience that listen to this that go, I really want a role, um, but I've been applying for jobs or I don't know where to start.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you've built um, you know, a really successful career to date within the industry and will keep doing so.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_01: So, what advice do you give to individuals sort of you know within the position that you were in beforehand?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's it's a tough one, really.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, LinkedIn for me is a massive, massive thing, which is quite ironic because at the time that I got the job via LinkedIn with DeVere, I had about 12 connections or something like that.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So I had no presence there.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And after getting that job, DeVere were very big on you need a LinkedIn presence network, it's the who you know, not what you know, sort of thing.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I I really, really do stand by that nowadays.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that as early as possible, start growing your network, whether it's when you start going to university, you're starting to come out of university, get on there, whether it's to start posting or just connect with people that share things that that you think is important.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_00: So if you're looking to get into financial planning, follow some of the companies, connect with some advisors, things like that, and you'll start to gain a network, and then you'll find it a lot easier to get a job as well.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then the other thing is obviously very obvious, just don't give up.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of like me, I thought it was going to be accountancy for me, and then I realized no, I want to stay in financial services, I'm gonna find another route into it.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I looked on the other side of it and sort of financial planning investment advice, and I managed to get a foot in the door.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: And then once you do get that sort of first role, just grab it with both hands.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: If you ever have an opportunity like I did, where perhaps you're unsure and moving abroad, or it might even be like moving from Bristol to London or something like that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Just say yes and do it because massively, massively uh focus on the fact that we don't regret the things that that we do do, we regret the things that you don't do when you had the chance.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: And I think if I'd have looked back and I hadn't have made that move, I'd probably be sat in the UK somewhere now in a different job thinking could have moved away two, three years ago.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because I I had the opportunity when I was 17 to go to the US for a scholarship for for football and things like that.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And I said no at the time.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I was a bit younger, perhaps it's a bit further away.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: I was scared to move away from my family.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_00: By the time I was 18, 19, I was like, why did I say no?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So why did I do that?
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that that meant when the Malta opportunity came up, uh, it was a no-brainer.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, yeah, if I hate it, I can come back in four weeks.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: No harm done.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: And that I think building on what you said is like you you always you regret the things that you don't do.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think some there in today's society there is such a fear of failure and a fear of not doing the right thing or or not making the right decision.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: But as you said then, you know, if you really didn't like it, you could always come back.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the same with those of any opportunity that you take, you don't know if it's gonna be a good fit for you or the right thing until you do it.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: And if it isn't, you know, that's fine.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you're so I think we have such um like a a fear um mindset in terms of people are gonna think of me differently and things like that.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: But realistically, if you can have the confidence knowing that you know you you didn't do pursue something further because you realistically knew that was the right thing for you, there's a lot of strength in that itself.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But as you said, we always regret the things that we don't do, not the things that we do have a go at.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: And I think then moving on to that sort of multipiece, and obviously we were speaking um before we actually hit record about the fact that you know you're in a very you're in a very sunny country, the temperature where you're like in January is what it's like spring for us for here.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: So do you mind talking to us about that in a bit more detail?
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know, the the age you um were at, that's a big move moving from from one country to another.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a big move.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: And as I said, one of the things that that helped me make that decision was the fact that it's English speaking, it obviously makes it an easier move.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: You don't have to go and learn a new language or or anything like that.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_00: That that's one massive factor.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I'd been here on holiday before, I knew the country, I knew what it was like, I knew that I would probably enjoy it.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that it's not that far from home, what three-hour flight, and I can pop back and see family for 50 euros if I needed to.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_00: And then the fact that I'd said no to America in the past as well.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was that moment where I was like, yes, I I just need to go and do this.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: And doing it at such a young age, I mean, I think I flew out here a week after my 19th birthday or something like that.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: So it was quite an early age, but it it's not something I I I've ever regretted.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: I think I had a period after maybe three or four weeks where I was sat in a bar by myself because I hadn't really made any friends yet.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I was sort of thinking that I could be at home with with my friends, with my family, doing this and that.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Well, what am I doing?
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and then the next week, uh, some new guys actually started in the office at De Vere, and and one of the guys ended up becoming my best mate.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_00: And from that point, I never looked back.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't have to worry about the social side of things outside.
• 14:06
  SPEAKER_00: I joined a local sort of football team as well, which helped because obviously, sports, you integrate in the community, you meet new people, people who are like-minded.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I started doing things that I would have normally done at home, playing football, going down to different places and meeting people, going to the gym, meeting people through there.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: And that really, really helped me settle in, meeting sort of like-minded individuals within the same space, whether they were from the UK or not, there's a massive, massive expat community here.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I never thought three years ago I'd be sat here saying that I've got friends from Brazil, from Australia, from Colombia, from Germany.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really surreal, everything that's happened.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: And if I hadn't have said yes, then I never would have got this opportunity.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like when you moved to Malta, then that was your your biggest hut hurdle?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: Sort of because obviously you were learning a new industry um and sort of getting your feet with a new role.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: But would you say that was easier or or harder is actually like I guess the life assimilation in like a different place, really?
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, stepping out of your comfort zone is is never easy.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's never necessarily a nice thing to do either.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: But as everyone knows, if you don't do it, you're possibly never going to grow, never get to do the things that that you want to do.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: And there have been some barriers, as you mentioned, obviously, coming fresh into the any industry, whether it's financial planning or or not, is very difficult.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: It just so happens that we have one of the most regulated industries in the world that that we work in.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: So it makes it that extra bit difficult because there's so much that you have to know and and learn.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but some of the main barriers were probably definitely moving abroad.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second side is is definitely the age, I would say.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, a lot of times when I can find myself speaking to clients, I I remember having a face-to-face with a client once about a year ago, and I turned up to a meeting, and the first thing she said, it I think she had one of those intrusive thoughts where it just came out and she didn't actually mean for it to come out.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: But I turned up and she went, Oh, Blimey, you're young.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, I was like, Yeah, yeah, I am.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I've been in the industry for a couple of years, I already have these qualifications, etc.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: etc.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like I'll do the job the same as anyone else could do the job, sort of thing.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, but by the end of the meeting, she was completely fine, and uh we worked through it, but it's it's that initial stigma of oh, the sort of knowledge comes with experience and age or whatever, but it it's not necessarily true.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and you compare it to professional sports people, people get chucked in the team at 16, 17, 18.
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it can be that why can't it be the same in in financial services?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_00: If if you're good enough and you're smart enough and you know your stuff, then then why not?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, 100% agree.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, would you prefer to be with in front of someone that is, you know, of an age profile that maybe you deem suitable or deem more of like a you know fits the model that you think in your brain but isn't capable to do the job that you want them to do, or someone of a younger age profile but it is fully capable to do sort of the task at hand, really?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess I think the age barrier is something that we see come up very often.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: I definitely see it on like a twofold thing.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: I speak to individuals who can face that barrier due to their age, but also I speak to businesses that are really conscious about putting you know their employees in those positions because they are conscious of what their clients will be thinking.
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely almost like a two-pronged approach, I guess.
• 17:38
  SPEAKER_01: But from your experiences, especially someone that has, I know you touched on it then previously, but someone that has had that sort of you know, you know, directly.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you handle that process of then when you do come across a client who sort of outwardly positions um age as a barrier or age as uh potentially a hurdle?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I mean, I I I never mention it to to start with, purely because I don't I don't think it's relevant, like as I've said.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: If they ask, then yeah, I'll I'll be open and honest about it.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_00: I've got I've got nothing to hide.
• 18:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I think everyone should should take the same approach as well.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the the best way to to get around it is just to try and get them to go through the process with you, whatever it might be, and prove to them that it's it's not about an age or a type of person that you are, or if you have tattoos or you don't, if you wear a suit to work, or if you turn up in in a tracksuit or whatever it is.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: As long as you're good at what you do and you can give confidence to the client that you know what you're doing, you work with integrity, then I think that should mean that the client will start to turn and realize that actually this prejudice I had before about age or style or look doesn't really matter because they'll gain confidence that you in your ability, that you know what you're doing.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that the most important thing there is whatever it is that I'm telling them, or if I'm trying to get them to invest in in some sort of product or they need to set up some sort of tax compliant bond, whatever it might be, for example, I have to have confidence that this is actually right for them, because that will be portrayed in any conversation that we have.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you're trying to sell something or you're trying to sort of help a client and it's not actually something that you believe in, they will notice something like that.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: You people can see through you.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas if you are genuinely trying to do right by them and genuinely trying to help them, that will also be portrayed and they will notice that nine times out of ten.
• 19:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can see you can read whether someone's being genuine or not very, very quickly.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_01: So I guess my next question, you sort of answered that with that.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: If there is individuals in our audience that are of a younger age profile and don't necessarily have the confidence to step in front of clients, but would really like to do that and have more client contact, potentially get the opportunities to see them face to face as you do in their role, what tips and tricks would you give them to sort of make them feel confident in those conversations?
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So one thing that that I used to do, and it's something they used to make us do at DeVere.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: It was if you have some sort of pitch or whatever it is that you're practicing that you have for the start of your meeting or whatever it might be, look in the mirror, record yourself and do that pitch over and over again.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I guarantee you, the first time you watch it, you will want to curl up in a ball and cry, probably, because I know I did.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Even if it's just a voice recorded, you you listen to it back and you think, Jesus, is that really what I sound like over the phone?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: But that's the best way to pick up little things.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_00: I never would have realized that when I first got on the phones or was first speaking to people, I was speaking really fast.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that meant when I got to a comma or a middle of a sentence or something like that, I'd go and then try to speak my next sentence afterwards.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I never would have picked up on that if I didn't listen back to what I was saying, and and that really helped me gain confidence, knowing the fact that okay, I have a weakness here, here, and here, but now I can focus on them because I actually know where they are now.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's a great idea.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: But as I said, um you know, our our both of our voices are being recorded and we'll be out in the world at some point soon.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, still um still think listening back to myself does make me cringe.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: So I fully appreciate that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: But also the same time, you've got to be proactive with your own learning.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I do think that's um a really helpful tip and trick to people in our audience that want to have more client contact than they do have already and are nervous about that.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I think one thing that you also said, you know, was an element of a barrier, but I guess for yourself in your career journey, um, really has been a bit of an advantage, has not been going to university.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is that something that has cropped up a couple of times?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it's come up one or two times, and uh I I think it usually comes from the older generation of of clients.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to mention age, I don't want to offend anyone, but uh because it it was such a norm 10, 15, 20 years ago to go to university.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was almost as if if you didn't go to university, you were deemed as a failure.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: Nowadays, there's so many alternatives, so many different things to do.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_00: And actually, is university the best thing to do?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I have no debt.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: I have friends that have 40,000, 50,000 pounds worth of debt, and we're in exactly the same position.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: If not, I'm further ahead of them because I've been working in an office environment for the last three, four years.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the younger clients sort of understand that the ones that are just getting into the sort of financial planning life cycle, maybe they've just had their first kid or they've got married or something like that.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_00: They do see that.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: But there are some clients that say, Oh, you've not got a degree, you didn't study finance economics.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, yeah, but we now have in place in the industry qualifications that you have to do that mean you can be a financial planner.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: You don't necessarily need a degree.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: I've got X, Y, and Z qualifications that show that I am adept and capable at my job.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that was the sort of easiest way I've I've dealt with it.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's only come up once or twice.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I I definitely don't regret not going to university, as I say.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm in no debt, I've had a great time, and uh I've got an amazing job and an amazing career, hopefully lined up with uh multiple jobs around different countries.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where I might end up next.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think I'm someone that went to university and did a degree that's completely disconnected to what I'm doing now.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: I had a great time and I loved my university experience, but I am one of those people that is in a lot of debt for something now that I wonder was it worthwhile doing from a career perspective?
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think it's a very, very valid point, especially for individuals like yourself that didn't necessarily necessarily feel like they fit within that education mold, um, which is um, you know, a very, very strong mold, especially when you've seen the the flip side of the coin, really.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, do you then now, in retrospect, especially, and you've touched on it then, feel I know you said education wasn't for you, but definitely feel grateful that you didn't go down that university path and found a career that could allow you to be successful without having a degree.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think we should have a more emphasis on that for other individuals at schools?
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I know there is definitely an emphasis on it now.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: So that the sort of careers fairs that you have in schools when you're 15, 16, 17, they they are good.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Certainly the school that I went to and worked in, they show you that there are other opportunities and sort of other routes that you can go down, whether it be an apprenticeship, whether it be just going to college, whether it be going straight into full-time work, whatever it is.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I think the UK as a country and and as a sort of school system is definitely improving in in that respect.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: And don't get me wrong, I'm sure I would have had a great time at university too.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_00: And there would have been a load of stuff that that I would have learned at university that I possibly haven't whilst working in a school or working in an office, and I might have made friends for life as well.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_00: But at my time it was a very difficult time as well.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_00: I I sort of timed it quite well because the sort of guys and girls in my year that went to uni, they had to go through COVID as well.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: So two years of their uni sort of life, where perhaps first year where it's a little bit more relaxed, you have a few more parties, meet friends.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't have that because of COVID.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: So they're at home most of the time.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I I definitely got very lucky there, I think.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: So, Marcus, it definitely comes across to me as you're someone that is, you know, happy to leap into the uncertainty and be uncomfortable within that uncomfortable feeling.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I was having a conversation with Sam just yesterday when I was talking about that like uh feeling that you get when you're a little bit anxious.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_01: And as much as it's not a pleasant feeling, it definitely tells myself that that I'm growing.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: If I don't have that feeling for a period of time, I know that I'm stagnant and I'm not pushing myself and doing things outside of my comfort zone.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: Would you sort of agree with me that that's you know quite a common theme with with your career today?
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_01: Is just pushing yourself that a little bit further.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, definitely.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that there's definitely a fear of failure in in society, isn't there?
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, as you mentioned, in in my career so far, short it has been, but um, I've definitely taken sort of risks and sort of tried to grow as as much as I can.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I now realize that when I was living in the UK, I'm from a sort of town in Hertfordshire, just north of London.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's a very sort of close community and things like that.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it could be very easy to get stuck there and never move away from there.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: And for some people, that's all they want and all they need, and that's perfectly fine.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: My sister's like that.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think she should ever leave that hometown, but that's perfect for her.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I realized that for me that there was more to the world and more to life than staying there.
• 27:06
  SPEAKER_00: And my vision was like this when I was living there.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And as soon as I moved abroad, it's it's like that.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like just seeing different cultures, different ways of life, having friends from different countries, like I mentioned, starting to learn bits of new languages and things like this.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like without taking those risks, I would never ever get the exposure to these types of things.
• 27:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, what's that famous quote that the Einstein used to say?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: Anyone who's never made a mistake has never tried anything new, like so I don't understand why there's such a fear of failure.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's it's not very pleasant at first, of course, if you fail an exam or something like that.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: Then yes, you you have that short-term sort of sadness or sort of it brings you down, but you have to then look on that and reflect back on it and see, right, okay, how can I then use this to my advantage?
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: How can I use this to make myself better, to grow, to to try it again and do it better this time?
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's something that I've I've taken over the last three or four years, definitely.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of that came out of the the back end of my struggle with sort of the depression anxiety as well, because through that phase, I was very, I obviously wouldn't take many risks.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was quite reserved in in what I was doing, sort of thing.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So going through sort of therapy and and things like that made me realize that actually taking risks, making mistakes is is fine.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's a perfectly normal thing to do.
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: And people make mistakes around you every day.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: You you'll probably see someone in the morning when you're walking to work who's just made a mistake because they've left their card at home or something.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's normal.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't think it's anything to be scared of, and uh I'm completely open to that now.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and obviously you said, you know, going from someone that's gone through those battles, and I think it's it's great to for that you're so open about them.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: And then being someone as you said, you know, that's taken some really big risks um for their career and you know, moving abroad and things like that, it seems like two polar opposites really.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: It must be great to to reflect back and think of yourself then and think at yourself now and see how far that you've grown.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I think lots of people, especially young people, will resonate with that growth and want to do that for themselves.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_01: So is there any particular, you know, things that were really useful to you, you know, the way that you planned a routine or or certain elements of your life that you certain things that you incorporated in your life that you feel like you could share with the audience that might be useful for them as well, if they also were in that attitude of like, okay, that resonates with me.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: I do have that way of thinking, but I want to be someone that's a bit more progressively minded.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think there are two things that that spring to mind sort of immediately.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: And the first of those is linked to the sort of battles that I did have, and the second of those is linked to now being in in Malta.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: So on the first of those, if you are having sort of battles or concerns or worries, whatever it might be, I was always a very sort of closed person.
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was I was chatty, I was outgoing, I was the sort of happy chappy, whatever, but I would never open up about emotions and things like that.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I can't stress enough how important it is to do that.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the first time I did it was was in therapy with what is essentially a complete stranger, which at times actually does make it easier because you know there's no judgment there.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: But it is so important if it's a friend, a teacher, a family member, whoever it is, to open up because that first time that you do, I know the first time that I did it felt like a weight had just dropped off of my shoulders.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: I lit I walked out of that first session thinking, I've just lost about a liter of water through tears, but it was worth it.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and that that's the most important thing for me on the first point is if there are any struggles, just open up and speak to someone.
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_00: There are so many opportunities and sort of avenues that you can use nowadays as well, helplines, everything like that.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then the second, you touched on the routine side of things, and and that's something that I didn't necessarily have in the UK.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's because maybe I was in a role that I wasn't quite as excited about or sort of into, but I definitely have a very structured one in Malta now, which has got better.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: It used to be like when I tell you, you're gonna be like, What?
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so when I joined DeVere, we used to start quite early.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's an international company, they have clients in Australia, and at the same time they have clients in like Canada and Mexico, sort of thing.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's a sort of wide-ranging day that you need to be at.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I used to do the earlies, so I used to be getting into the office maybe 5, 6 a.m.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I could never go to the gym after work because after a long after a long day at work, I just want to go home and relax and be at home or whatever it is.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to go to a gym at five, six o'clock when I know it's absolutely heaving as well.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I used to go in the morning, I used to set my alarm.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: Me and my friend at Devere, we used to go at three in the morning and we used to have to run up this hill that was like that.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: And I uh it was like running up the side of a mountain for about two, 2K, about three o'clock in the morning.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: You're running past people coming home from their night out and things like that.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: And that's not something I ever would have dreamed of doing in the UK, ever, because why would you?
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's ridiculous.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: And that gave me a very good routine.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: I would then get home from I'd go to the gym, I'd then do my podcasts in the morning, sort of listening to them.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's a Financial Times one just to catch me up with what's going on, get into work, do my studying, maybe an hour before I actually have to start my work day, and then go through work, go home, cook.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I had a very sort of structured, regimented routine.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: And it's similar now.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_00: I've just shifted the times a little bit.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't quite get up at three o'clock anymore.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's now more 5:30.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: I get up and go to the gym, but I I do like my routine Monday to Friday.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um I'm the type of guy that comes home from a holiday and is like, I can't wait to get back into my routine now because I feel a little bit all over the place.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so yeah, a routine and discipline is is very important, and it's definitely something that if I didn't have, I would just feel like a mess.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm I'm I'm exactly the same.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm someone that like loves going on holiday, but when I come back home, I'm there like, oh, I get to go back to my routine.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like how like a creature of habit almost, like really excited.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I also agree with you about I think gym is so good for your mental health and like movement and stuff like that.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's really important to me.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: But even yesterday I said I was gonna go for a run after work, it's quite different to what it's like with you, but it's absolutely blowing a gale.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I've sat behind a computer for eight hours, and the last thing I want to do is go for a run.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I'm a lunchtime gym kind of kind of person.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: But um, I've got a really strong set routine as well in the way that I work.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like while that is your Monday to Friday, like that routine spans my my whole day, and you know, not just my work life.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know whether you agree with me, but especially being like a younger age profile person where you are getting a pulled bit here, there, and everywhere with everything that's going on in the world, um, having that real set routine and structure and discipline around that can really benefit how you perform in a working environment.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: It it also means that you sort of know where you are and and how you're going, sort of thing.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: I I used to uh sort of reflect each each day on I'd set myself maybe like 10, 15 tasks.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I think I might still have the spreadsheet somewhere, and it would be like make sure you get up at 5:30, listen to your podcast, do your stretching, go to the gym, study for an hour, read 15 minutes of a book, whatever it be, it'd be like a checklist.
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_00: And you go through and check that throughout the uh at the end of the day.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Did I do those?
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yes, yes, and tally up the scores by the end of the month and see if you hit your target.
• 34:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I did that for about three months, and it was really, really useful.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: And then thankfully, by the end of doing it for sort of one, two, three months, I didn't need it anymore because I was then in that routine, and it helped me purely because I told other people I was doing it.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: So I then had this external social pressure that I've meant I had to do it, and also for myself, I I wanted to grow and get better and things like that.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it meant that if I got to the end of the day and I'd only done 10 out of the 16 on my checklist, I'd look at myself and be like, come on, tomorrow we can do 11 or 12 or or whatever in it, just increasing by that little sort of two, three percent each day.
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_00: And if I didn't have that or didn't start that routine, then you just sort of flow through the week, you just sort of get through it's Monday, then it's Tuesday, that's Wednesday, and you get to Friday, and then it's the weekend, and then all of a sudden it's Sunday night, and you're back to work, and you're thinking it's just a vicious cycle, and you don't really have any structure as to what's going on, what you want to achieve this week, what you want to do this week.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: So setting some goals on a weekly, monthly, quarterly basis, whatever it might be, is is really important because then you can track that progress as well.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_01: And do you think then tracking your brace set progress in your overall life and having that like progressive mindset has enabled you as someone that is in their infancy of their career to sort of you know keep progressing, develop on the competencies and things like that, rather than someone that's just sort of, I guess, floating around a little bit.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I sort of set myself the target when I first come to Malta to hopefully be fully qualified within two years.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: That didn't quite work out, but that's fine.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay with that.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: After a year, year and a half, I realized that wasn't going to be the the sort of end result, so I adjusted it slightly and I made a sort of different goal.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: And that's fine, you're not gonna hit every goal that you set.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Like we say, that that's where you come back to the sort of fear of failure or making a mistake or whatever.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: The life and your career, there's no sort of set time in which you should do things.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone has a different race, everyone's running a different race.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I think you just need to be comfortable within yourself with first of all setting those goals and identify them, second of all, trying to hit them, and then third of all, if you do hit them, or if you don't hit them, how you can then get the next one percent, how you can improve again, because otherwise you will just find yourself stagnating, and that's when you start to lose the love for your job and turn up to work every day.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, all right, no one wakes up every day in a brilliant mood, buzzing to go to work, sure.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: But if you can at least wake up on three days of the week where you're happy to get in the office and buzzing, it will make a big, big difference.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_00: Because when I was working at the school, I was waking up maybe one day a week where I was excited to go to the office, and that was probably a Friday.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: So and I think also you've incorporated like different facets to that discipline as well, like we've spoken about before that like you've stopped drinking a couple of months prior to an exam to enable you to focus and allow you to do that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, you really do hone into those different levels of discipline as and when required to sort of allow you to reach your wider goals.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think a lot of that that that discipline side definitely comes from from my dad, I would say.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: It was very uh sort of as I was a kid, sort of playing football.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: I played at a half decent level when I was younger.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_00: He was very regimented and disciplined and and sort of making sure I had everything ready, like the night before a game on a Saturday or something, he came in on a Friday night.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure have you got your shin pads, you got this ready, have you got that ready?
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is this ready?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, obviously, ensure that I wasn't drinking or anything the night before as well.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I I bought into that because yeah, obviously, I wanted to become a better player, I wanted to try and earn some more money from playing football as well.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's that's sort of where I've got the the discipline side from.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: And the the not drinking is is something that sort of came from that.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I had an exam at the end of October last year, and towards the end of August, obviously Malta's a massive sort of party island in the summer, it can be.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: So it's very, very easy if you're between the ages of 18 to even 30 or whatever to get sucked into going out every weekend and things like that, and you sort of lose track a little bit, you get in that vicious cycle.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I sort of decided, right, two months until my exam, let's just cut out the drink.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_00: At the weekend, I can then have free time to focus on what it is that I need to do.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because the last thing I want to do is pay 400, 500 pounds, whatever it is for this exam, and then fail, and then have to sort of pay again because my company, for example, they only reimburse me if I pass the exam.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: So it's sort of extra incentive and motivation to make sure that I am doing the right things.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm currently on one of my no alcohol sort of detoxes at the moment as well.
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I did it.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: I've got an exam end of Feb.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I've got an exam at the end of February, so I'm gonna do dry Jan and Dry Feb.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: And uh hopefully, fingers crossed, I'll pass that and then level four will be done, and uh I'll be able to register with the FCA, but we will see.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_01: Best of luck.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, best of luck.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_01: I'm very excited for you.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I think, you know, as someone that is in the infancy of their career, I think it's really nice to have someone in that position on the podcast because there are so many individuals in our audience that are, you know, really ambitious, want to progress with the in in the industry.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have individuals that, you know, a second careerist and haven't had the opportunity to step into the industry as of yet.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's really exciting and and really good to shine a light on, you know, those routines, those disciplines that uh allow you to keep progressing because lots of people want tips and tricks on how they're able to do that.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've spoken a lot as well, like we're pre you know going further before in this uh in this episode about you know um financial education, you know, um you know, financial planning knowledge and schools and things like that, and that it's not at the level where it where we don't feel like it should be.
• 40:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um this is quite a a good large question, I guess.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_01: But as someone that is in the infancy of their career, do you feel like there is an opportunity for you to be sort of like the the change that you want to see?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Especially, you know, we mentioned about stigma within the industry and you know about how advisors were 10, 15 years ago and wanting to change that.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, do you feel like as someone that is in their infancy within the career, that you do feel like there is a bit of a responsibility, I guess, um, to be the change that you wish to see?
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I think there's probably hundreds, if not thousands, of people in a similar position to me who are just getting into the industry and and want to be the same.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_00: I I have it even more so because from those two years of of working in the school as well, I I saw a different side to education.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and what I mean by that is I was always in sort of top set or middle set or whatever when I was going through school, and it can be very secluded, you can be very sheltered within that.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: You don't quite realize what happens in perhaps some of the the sort of lower echelons of the school or or perhaps some of the more sort of uh challenged or or sort of children who don't have the same resources or access to resources that that I did growing up.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: And that sort of opened my viewpoint to the fact that we need to do better as a society, as an industry, to make sure that people know where they can get the information, how they can get the information, and then how to apply it as well.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I've seen a lot of people that are going back into schools now that are in our industry and they're doing talks and things like this.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: I I done one at my old school as well.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: I did an assembly with with six former students about sort of the next stages and things like that, and also just taught a little bit about sort of budgeting and things that you don't learn.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the more and more that schools can incorporate this and bring old students back who perhaps have gone into this industry and just teach them a little bit about it, the better it's gonna get.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: But until that happens on a sort of blanketed scale across a country or across the globe, then you probably unfortunately won't see that big of an impact on on society.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it's crazy because the more educated people are about the money, the better quality of life they're gonna have.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: So the the fact that it's such a a sort of small part of the syllabus in in schools is is just honestly mental to me.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I don't understand it.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy, isn't it?
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we're of very similar age profiles.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think I never had any discussions about mortgages or taxes, and I'm very fortunate enough.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: Obviously, you're fortunate enough that you've you know have stepped into that space, so you have the knowledge to give to other people, but you have the knowledge for yourself.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: And likewise, I'm fortunate that I have family that are within the industry, so I've got someone that I can pick up the phone to and ask questions, but a lot of people don't have that.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I guess that education piece leads on to something else that you're really passionate about, which is just the wider accessibility to financial planning.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I think this is a major problem within the industry.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the the industry, I guess, was was set.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Up and and sort of geared towards high net worth individuals, the rich, the ultra-rich, which is is fair enough.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's understandable.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: These are the people that perhaps have the access to uh to sort of do the planning and invest.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: But what you find is that it's actually those on lower incomes that need the planning the most.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: And there's very limited access.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think the gov.uk, there's a few things on there, and and sort of money, money farm and places like that, you can gain access to some of the information.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're a if you're a full-time mum and you've got two kids or something, where are you going to be able to find the time to go and learn about all of this?
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's it's not feasible, especially if you open a website and it's just a docket of black and white text for about 18 pages.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_00: You're never going to learn much just from reading through that.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I think more needs to be done to make it accessible for those on lower incomes.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_00: Firstly, starting in the UK and then obviously looking wider of that, just to make sure that people have the knowledge and the access to be able to at least make a budget for themselves.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because some people don't even know how to do that.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_00: And through no fault of their own, it comes back to the schools again.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: We don't learn it from an early age, and it's always an awkward conversation, which I've never understood why.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: When it's like when someone asks you how much do you earn?
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_00: Everyone always finds that an awkward conversation.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't understand what why is there such a stigma around talking about money?
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: It why why are we so afraid to to talk about it?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's strange to me.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I mean it's it's similar to when you have the sort of the birds and the bees conversation with your parents.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_00: Should you not have a money conversation as well?
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a really great point.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that what we've just spoken about then are like really key issues within the industry.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but fortunately, individuals like yourself, while you know they are really big issues to tackle, there's there's no denying about that.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_01: Individuals like yourself, sort of within that infancy of their career, are in a really exciting position to influence this and change the dynamics about financial planning on like a national and even an international scale.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think more one of that's one of the things that's really exciting about this profession for young people stepping into it?
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: That you really can add value to the clients that you work with, but also add value to to a wider industry and something beyond that, really.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can add value in in so many different spaces for so many different people, you can do it for expats who are moving around different countries, you can do it for people that don't have the access and need it most.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: And and you can also, in a selfish kind of way, you can do it for yourself because you teach yourself about it, and then that means that you're you're gonna have a higher quality of life because you know the things that you should and shouldn't be doing.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: You might not necessarily put them all into practice, but at least you'll you'll sort of know and you'll be able to create create some sort of plan for yourself and for your own family as well.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a sort of a double-pronged fork there, where yes, you can help others, but you can also be a bit selfish and think I want to get into the industry because I want to help myself so that I can then help others because I wouldn't be able to help others if I didn't help myself first.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, five.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_01: I think just to round things up, Marcus, you've given us so many, you know, useful advice to our audience.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I think it'd be really nice to know, you know, where do you see yourself in five years' time?
• 47:26
  SPEAKER_01: What are your your goals and ambitions for the next five years?
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's a difficult one, but um I don't know.
• 47:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think I I've been very open about the fact that it's sort of to to friends and colleagues and things like that, that I'm not gonna be in Malta forever.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not gonna be the place where I settle and live.
• 47:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason for that is it's very small and it's a great place for a couple of years, but I want to be able to drive for 30 minutes and not end up in the sea for a start.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I also would would love to go traveling.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I never really had that break between sixth-form college, whatever you want to call it, and sort of going to work.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_00: Most people go to university or whatever, or they take a gap year or something like that.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_00: I never had that.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_00: I went straight into a full-time job at 18, and I've been doing that now for the the last four and a half years.
• 48:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I think possibly looking at that in the future as well might be something.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_00: And uh in terms of planning side of things, I'll be in a different country for sure.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_00: Wherever that might be, it won't be the UK.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it needs to be it needs to be a warm country.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: We know that I want the definite.
• 48:36
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to be a warm country.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: And hopefully, just honing in on my skills, I'd like to focus on the pension side of things for sure.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: Uh with my clients.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I'll probably look at doing uh a sort of level six certification in in pension transfers, uh, and then also just doing the same things that I'm doing today, really, in terms of sharing the sort of financial tips and knowledge that I do through LinkedIn or through other sources, whether it's through coming on podcasts like this, whether it's through speaking to ex-students at my school or different schools, or even if it's just speaking to friends, family members, and giving them sort of human-to-human advice as opposed to something that they have to go out and sort of pay for.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's probably the plan for the next few years.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow, excellent.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you very much um for coming on today, Marcus, and sharing your your knowledge and guidance with our audience.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, fingers crossed um for your exam next month.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sure we'll be hearing from you soon and about where you go in the future.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you very much for taking the time to speak to me today.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: No problem.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you very much for having me.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's been a pleasure.