Latest / Make Water Work Podcast / Anne Mushow: How Subeca’s IoT Platform is Transforming Water Management | Make Water Work 031

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Anne Mushow: How Subeca’s IoT Platform is Transforming Water Management | Make Water Work 031 · Make Water Work Podcast

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  What we think is going to be the most
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  disruptive for the next few years in the
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  water space is for these smaller
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  utilities that don't have the ability to
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  um make the capital investment of what
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  even if it's in our hardware. We believe
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  metering as a service will be
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  transformative for the industry and with
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  Amazon Sidewalk being a free
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  infrastructure option, it is really the
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  only way in our minds for uh a truly
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  profitable
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  uh relationship for the company and the
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  utility.
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  >> Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast
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  where we dive into the people, ideas,
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  and innovation shaping the future of
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  water. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
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  and alongside my co-host, Megan Glover,
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  the founder of 120 Water, we bring you
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  insights from hundreds of incredible
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  conversations we've had over the past 9
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  years with inspiring and energizing
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  leaders in the water industry. Each
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  week, we share those stories and
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  conversations with entrepreneurs,
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  community champions, and innovators who
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  are making water work for everyone.
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  Whether you're a water professional, a
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  curious innovator, or simply passionate
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  about our most precious resource, this
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  podcast is for you. Let's get started.
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  Welcome to the Make Waterwork podcast
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  where we celebrate those serving and
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  innovating in the water industry. We
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  love getting to have conversations with
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  amazing people. And so, Megan, what
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  amazing person do we get to speak to
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  today?
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  >> Yes. So today we are speaking to an
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  incredible CEO Ann Mushau and um she is
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  the CEO of Sububaca which is a um smart
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  metering company that we'll talk about
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  because I'm not giving it nearly enough
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  justice as it deserves but um I've known
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  an um not terribly long but a couple
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  years and um have always admired uh her
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  leadership her innovative approach to
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  the market and how she's building um um
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  Subbeca what they're trying to do and
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  most importantly She is a
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  self-proclaimed water nerd and certified
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  badass woman of water. So without
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  further ado and welcome to the podcast.
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  >> Thank you guys so much for having me.
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  It's my favorite thing to get to talk to
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  other startup friends about water
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  things. So thanks so much for the time.
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  >> Talk or commiserate.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> Yes.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> The trenches.
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  >> The trenches. Right. Um well um we are
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  so excited to have you here and um we
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  always kick off every show um asking our
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  guests the same question because we love
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  uh we love the responses that we get. Um
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  how did water find you an?
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  >> Yeah. So um I started I I'm an engineer
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  by training, electrical engineer by
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  training. Uh and I figured out very
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  early in my career. I really loved
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  figuring out what was wrong with broken
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  things. And I ended up at Census as a
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  failure analysis engineer understanding
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  why electric meters, water meters, and
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  gas meters were finding challenges in
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  the field. And through that process, I
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  gravitated toward water and helping the
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  water customers in particular. Um,
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  really adopt technology to make it
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  easier for them to operate. Um, I got to
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  spend a lot of time in the field, see
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  what their day-to-day life was like. Uh
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  it's amazing to me that this still very
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  much function functions as a
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  hundred-year-old technologies for many
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  operators in the US which is wild
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  considering where we are on the scale of
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  digital transformation. Um and
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  ultimately for me I just want to empower
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  water utilities with more information.
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  Um because so many times they could
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  operate more efficiently as the
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  challenges grow whether that be climate
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  change um demand all of that. They just
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  are balancing so many things. And so
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  I've stuck with it. Ended up at Tubaca
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  doing fun and innovative stuff to try to
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  change that. Um and I don't see myself
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  going anywhere anytime soon.
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  >> I know. Water has a way of doing that to
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  you, right? It's uh it's it's magnetic.
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  Um so you mentioned that you're at
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  Sebeca now and we'll talk about kind of
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  that journey from Census there, but I'm
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  curious um for those that may not be
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  familiar with your fun and smart
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  technology that you're bringing to
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  market. Educate us. What do you what do
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  you do? Um, and what what problem are
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  you solving for utilities?
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  >> Absolutely. So, our goal at TubeBaca is
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  to make um legacy infrastructure smart
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  really really fast and simply for water
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  utilities. And so, we've created a
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  plug-and-play IoT platform that enables
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  utilities to get smart water data back,
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  whether that be their metering data or
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  water quality, other types of
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  information they need to operate. And we
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  do that through multiple network
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  options. We've found that there is no
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  silver bullet when it comes to
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  communications for water data. And when
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  you put things out in the field,
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  connectivity optionality is key. Um, and
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  so we've built our technology with
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  Amazon Sidewalk as well as Laurowan and
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  Bluetooth all built right in. Uh and so
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  utilities can adopt what they need at
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  the rate that they need to really making
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  it attainable for utilities that have
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  been historically locked out of digital
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  transformation.
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  >> Oh man.
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  >> Yeah. Yeah. That's that's phenomenal cuz
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  when you think about the smart water or
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  smart metering space, there's either a
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  lot of upfront investment. um it's a big
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  capital project, but the um from what I
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  understand of the model, it's just a lot
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  more accessible um and flexible um
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  because you're not choosing just one
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  >> communications path for meter reading or
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  getting any any of that information. I
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  still see a meter reader walk by my
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  house um
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  >> here in Indianapolis once a month.
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  Sometimes I see a yellow vest.
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  >> Yep. Um, so with a device and I think
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  they're getting a radio signal um, off
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  of off of my meter. Um, I actually
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  haven't haven't looked, but um, yeah,
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  it's a fascinating technology and
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  workflow that you're solving.
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  >> Yeah, it's it's a very interesting
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  problem to solve given particularly the
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  US market um, but all over North
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  America, it's very fragmented. You've
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  got utilities that have hundreds of
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  thousands of service connections and
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  then you have HOAs which are functioning
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  with a few hundred service connections
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  that they need to support. So as you can
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  imagine the the working backwards
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  problem that they're trying to solve are
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  vastly different depending on which
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  segment you're really trying to help.
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  And so for us the goal was to create
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  something that was highly interoperable
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  that could be tailored to meet that
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  utility where they are. They may still
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  be on that AMR journey that you talk
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  about there, Isaac, and they want to go
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  to AMI, but that feels like this big rip
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  and replace and let's take everything
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  out and start from scratch. And so many
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  municipalities don't have the funds um
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  or the rate case uh or the the the
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  energy to make the rate case to really
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  make that kind of investment. Yeah.
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  >> And so we've made technology that was
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  highly adaptable, retrofit, plugandplay,
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  so they can use what they have and get
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  the remaining useful life. Maybe they
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  want to start off with our AMI options
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  over Bluetooth until they get
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  comfortable with AMI. All of that is
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  built in to our hardware to enable that
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  technology and the software makes that
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  easy for them.
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  >> So, what I love about that in
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  particular, especially for the US
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  market, is that it's really so much of
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  the market is the rural water market.
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  That that is the market. And so when
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  you're building solutions, a lot of
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  times um innovators coming to the table
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  with a solution, they're thinking about
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  how this transforms
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  the industry, but it's really only
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  applicable or adaptable by a handful of
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  large systems. So the challenge is how
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  do you scale down, not how you scale up,
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  right? And I think
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  >> right
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  >> when I first heard of Subbec I was like
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  it's it's brilliant because
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  >> um it's not that it's scale it's not
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  that it meets a need of massive scale
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  for a large city. It's that it's able to
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  meet the long tail which is scale
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  >> which is but the long tail is the
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  market.
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  >> Exactly.
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  >> Right. It is.
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  >> Yeah.
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  >> It really is. There are 40,000 water
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  utilities in the United States alone
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  that have 10,000 or under service
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  connections. the market is the tail as
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  Megan just highlighted and for many of
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  those folks implementing either a
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  capexheavy
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  um infrastructure plan where they have
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  to put the towers up themselves, put up
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  a mesh network,
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  >> they don't have the bandwidth to either
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  implement or continue to manage that
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  infrastructure and and certainly the
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  cost is a challenge. or if they go the
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  other route to to look at the cellular
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  option, then that shifts to an ongoing
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  opex intensive um capitalization plan.
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  And so that becomes really difficult for
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  them to justify with their rateayers.
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  >> So what we've done is try to blend the
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  best of those and I'll I'll I'll
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  highlight Amazon Sidewalk here. Amazon
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  Sidewalk is a completely free
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  infrastructureless network that Amazon
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  has built into the consumer products
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  that they sell in the market. And so
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  Ring flood light cameras or doorbells,
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  Echo devices actually have gateways
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  built into them and they can collect a
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  small amount of data um through those
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  and we're leveraging that. And so that
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  ongoing uh opex of cellular isn't at
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  play. Um the infrastructure front end
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  doesn't exist. The network's already out
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  there and working in the United States,
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  Canada, and Mexico. And so we're just
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  leveraging something that's there to
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  make it much more affordable, but also
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  much much easier for them to implement.
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  >> Yeah. And and I want to stay on Thank
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  you so much for bringing up Amazon
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  because I wanted to bring this up on the
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  forefront because I think um seeing big
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  tech in water gets me really excited
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  because more name big tech that's name
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  recognizable I think draws attention to
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  our industry. It helps us build on uh
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  technologies on top of existing
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  infrastructure that is known and proven
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  in other industries. So Ann, can you
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  walk us through how that relationship
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  with Amazon even came to be about? I
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  mean, did you seek them out? Did they
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  seek you out? Like anything you can
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  share because I just think when I saw
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  that news that Amazon was getting in
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  water and then you know Sebeca
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  announced, I was like, "Yay, it's
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  finally coming together." What can you
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  just Yeah. share a little bit of how
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  that all uh happened?
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  >> Absolutely. So I was actually at Amazon
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  web services um uh working in their
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  business um utilities group that's are
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  very focused on utilities how they how
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  utilities and their partners adopt cloud
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  technology and sidewalk was launched
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  during my time there
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  >> and having worked at census and run
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  deployment services for census for North
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  America I just knew that would be a
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  gamecher putting these networks up is
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  difficult it requires a lot of project
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  management consultancy all these things.
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  It's just really expensive. And so for
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  me it was oo this this is an exciting
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  disruptor um with a big partner with
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  Amazon who knows how to operate at
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  scale. They understand complexity at
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  that at that scale and so I just knew it
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  would be disruptive and um Subbeca
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  actually crossed my desk. Um they were
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  implementing Sidewalk. They were one of
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  the first adopters. Um, and frankly,
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  they recruited me away from Amazon
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  because I I knew that it could um really
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  help and change the space.
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  >> While I was at Amazon though, I was
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  working with their water and
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  sustainability team because they wanted
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  more water data. Amazon itself has a
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  huge commercial real estate footprint,
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  >> as you can imagine. that's in thousands
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  of different water utilities throughout
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  the the North America as well as all
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  over the globe. They were trying to get
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  more water data for themselves to meet
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  their own sustainability goals like
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  water positive by 2030 and they were
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  just struggling and part of that was
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  because the utilities didn't have the
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  data to provide to Amazon at the
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  granularity they needed. Amazon wanted
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  that type of data and wanted to help the
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  utilities get it. And so it just created
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  this amazing triangle for us of let's
• 12:12
  create a technology that works really
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  well for utilities, but the commercial
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  and industrial operators can use it as
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  well. And so that was where we
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  partnered, Amazon Climate Pledge
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  actually invested in us for our series A
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  because we created um an ultrasonic
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  clamp-on metering device that is
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  completely non-disruptive, which is key
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  for Amazon. They cannot have operation
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  centers or data centers down, but we can
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  get them the hourly water data that they
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  need to understand leaks and really
• 12:43
  manage um their consumption and usage
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  that then can be scaled across. then the
• 12:50
  utilities that are supplying water to
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  those facilities have more data because
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  Amazon will work and help invest uh and
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  help them adopt technologies. And it
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  just became this great little triangle
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  of um assistance for technological
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  adoption that has helped footprints that
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  just have never had access to it before.
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  Yeah, I I I just I love that story and I
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  would love to have been a fly on the
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  wall when whomever at Amazon said would
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  say, "What what do you mean I can't get
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  that data from from the water operate?
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  What what what do you mean?" Like, you
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  know, we're getting all of this data
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  from all of our, you know,
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  infrastructure and our our system. What
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  do you mean I can't get that from my
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  water utility? It was probably eye
• 13:32
  opening to them how analog the
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  operations of the utility space really
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  uh still is.
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  >> Absolutely. And I I do think you know
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  especially some an organization as
• 13:43
  technologically advanced as Amazon it
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  was truly eye opening. They have the
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  budgets and the capacity the manpower to
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  implement these types of solutions. They
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  still need it to be non-disruptive and
• 13:55
  simple to use. um but to see what the
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  utilities were up against um and the
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  data granularity. Many in many cases it
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  was quarterly reads. I know one of the
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  utilities we've helped with Amazon's
• 14:06
  assistance was reading twice a year.
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  That was the most they could read. And
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  so we've now implemented our solution
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  with them. They're getting hourly reads
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  from their meters. Um, we got a note
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  from them over the winter that, um, they
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  typically wouldn't read during the
• 14:22
  winter because they didn't want to have
• 14:23
  to dig the pits out to do the visual
• 14:25
  reads and now they're getting hourly
• 14:26
  reports. It's been transformative to
• 14:28
  identify leaks as the thaw sets in. So,
• 14:31
  it's great to have that realtime
• 14:34
  success. Um, and certainly Amazon is
• 14:38
  accomplishing their sustainability goals
• 14:40
  by assisting these utilities to get the
• 14:42
  data for them to operate as well.
• 14:44
  >> Yeah.
• 14:45
  >> Yeah. I I um you know I I'm learning you
• 14:48
  know so much and I think you guys in
• 14:50
  your solution sets evolving you know so
• 14:52
  rapidly as I would expect any startup
• 14:54
  like approaching the market you know the
• 14:55
  the the right way but I mean how um can
• 14:58
  you double click a little bit more on um
• 15:01
  how your technology is is really
• 15:04
  differentiated against kind of the
• 15:07
  existing smart technology that we have
• 15:08
  out there because you know I'm hearing
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  um a lot more like it's not just
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  metering that you're attacking you're
• 15:13
  attacking leak detection you're
• 15:14
  attacking water quality I think that is
• 15:16
  such a novel approach. It's like let's
• 15:18
  not be singlethreaded in one real time
• 15:21
  data source. Let's try to tap into all
• 15:23
  of the sources that are actually out
• 15:24
  there that we need to collect data on
• 15:26
  and then make, you know, richer
• 15:28
  decisions because of it. I don't want to
• 15:30
  put words in your mouth, but I just
• 15:31
  think you're such a differentiated
• 15:32
  product on the market that I'd love for
• 15:34
  you to kind of explain how you do differ
• 15:36
  from some other smart technologies and
• 15:38
  how you're, you know, trying to um, you
• 15:40
  know, uh, provide, you know, a better
• 15:42
  solution.
• 15:43
  >> Yeah, absolutely. So our goal for
• 15:45
  simplicity really meant that we needed
• 15:48
  to be flexible as a technology. So to
• 15:50
  make it simple for this highly
• 15:52
  diversified market that means that we
• 15:55
  have to have a lot of optionality for
• 15:57
  what we implement. And so on the network
• 15:59
  side we have implemented Amazon Sidewalk
• 16:01
  but we also mentioned have built in
• 16:04
  Laurowan as a backup option. There are
• 16:06
  utilities that aren't comfortable fully
• 16:09
  depending on Amazon sidewalk or in
• 16:11
  really deeply rural applications. They
• 16:14
  don't have quite enough reach and so we
• 16:15
  have the Lauran gateway option private
• 16:18
  or managed for them to adopt what they
• 16:21
  need again at the scale for where they
• 16:24
  are. We also implemented AMR with our
• 16:27
  thinking was a bit of a backup reading
• 16:29
  methodology. Let's say you don't get a
• 16:31
  read for the month. Instead of having to
• 16:33
  put eyes on the meter, collect it from
• 16:35
  close range. What that's transformed for
• 16:37
  us is that customers who are more
• 16:39
  comfortable starting at AMR and taking a
• 16:41
  slow walk on the journey are able to do
• 16:44
  that. And so that's been really
• 16:45
  transformative um for some of our
• 16:47
  customers.
• 16:48
  >> Love that.
• 16:49
  >> Based on that, we've also built our
• 16:51
  platform with very intentional
• 16:53
  optionality. The same smart register
• 16:55
  option, our wireless pen works across a
• 16:58
  wide variety of OEM meter form factors.
• 17:01
  Whether you have Census or Badger or
• 17:04
  Neptune, the same smart register will
• 17:06
  work with just a different adapter. And
• 17:08
  then configuration with a mobile app,
• 17:11
  whether you use that on your Android or
• 17:13
  iOSbased tablet or phone. All of that
• 17:16
  imple implementation is done with
• 17:19
  configuration in close range. And then
• 17:21
  we also have an MIU or um um basically a
• 17:25
  radio unit that can plug into static
• 17:28
  meters. Again, we work across a wide
• 17:30
  variety of static meters. And so when
• 17:32
  you think about the prototypical small
• 17:35
  municipality who's been buying the most
• 17:37
  cost-effective meters that they could,
• 17:39
  the best technology that they when they
• 17:41
  needed to make replacements, they may
• 17:43
  have a highly varied meter footprint.
• 17:46
  And so these technologies will enable
• 17:48
  them to make any of that smart without a
• 17:51
  full replacement again remaining useful
• 17:54
  life concept
• 17:55
  >> that that endpoint unit that I mentioned
• 17:58
  however also has the ability to connect
• 18:00
  to other types of devices. And so for us
• 18:03
  the road map looks like water pressure
• 18:06
  monitoring that with that same device
• 18:08
  that is simply configurable for a
• 18:10
  particular type of pressure sensor,
• 18:12
  water quality sensor, level sensor. And
• 18:15
  so what we've what we've created in the
• 18:17
  hardware is something that's very simple
• 18:19
  and comfortable for utilities deployed.
• 18:21
  It's form factors that they're familiar
• 18:24
  with, but can then be used in a variety
• 18:27
  of different applications as they want
• 18:29
  to do more um and gather more
• 18:32
  information. We try to do that in a
• 18:35
  stage appropriate way. We are still a
• 18:36
  startup. We can't do everything. Um, but
• 18:39
  we've we're we're making AMI attainable
• 18:43
  and then everything else for them can
• 18:46
  follow. We can add in pressure, they can
• 18:48
  add in water quality or level sensing as
• 18:51
  they want to. And our goal is
• 18:54
  >> um to really enable across the spectrum.
• 18:57
  Uh the last thing I'll mention is even
• 18:59
  for some of the large utilities that
• 19:01
  have AMI already, there remains some
• 19:04
  really hardto-reach locations as well.
• 19:07
  Um, and we've decided to be super
• 19:09
  flexible so that you could use our
• 19:11
  technology with other AMI. And so if
• 19:14
  you're using cellular, if you're using a
• 19:16
  fixed network, but that last 3 to 5% is
• 19:19
  in terrible terrain or a hard-to-reach
• 19:22
  basement. Um, we we offer a really
• 19:24
  cost-effective way to get that last
• 19:27
  little percentage of meters for infill.
• 19:29
  Um, and we've designed our software to
• 19:32
  be highly connectable upstream, whether
• 19:35
  it's directly to an MDMS or a billing
• 19:38
  system or any of those types of things.
• 19:40
  We just want to enable data to go back,
• 19:43
  >> let you use that data where you need it,
• 19:45
  um, and then operate as efficiently as
• 19:47
  possible. So, our
• 19:49
  >> cool technology and innovation enables
• 19:52
  utilities to use what they want. It's
• 19:54
  almost uh, IoT allocart is is the way we
• 19:57
  talk about it a little bit. And again,
• 19:59
  it really reinforces that principle and
• 20:01
  the thing that we've always believed is
• 20:03
  that
• 20:03
  >> what's most important is being able to
• 20:05
  meet the market where it's at
• 20:07
  >> and not not um and create the journey in
• 20:12
  accessible steps. Um sometimes we pitch
• 20:15
  visions of and I'm I'm all for like
• 20:18
  2050, what can water look like? We can
• 20:20
  pitch that, but we also need to design
• 20:22
  solutions as innovators, as as
• 20:24
  businesses that say
• 20:27
  >> that's great for 2050 for today. Here's
• 20:29
  what you can do. Here's tomorrow what
• 20:32
  you can do. Um, and making it more
• 20:34
  accessible. That's almost that is the
• 20:36
  job that we have as innovators is to
• 20:39
  say, we want we want to show you a
• 20:41
  vision and we also want to show you how
• 20:43
  to get there.
• 20:44
  >> Yeah. And with an accessible business
• 20:46
  model. I mean, I I love I you know, I
• 20:49
  think if you look at the most um
• 20:51
  successful companies of uh the most
• 20:54
  recent generations, I mean, what is it?
• 20:56
  Uber is a taxi company that doesn't own
• 20:58
  a single car.
• 20:59
  >> Um Airbnb is a real estate business that
• 21:02
  doesn't own a single property. You know,
• 21:04
  you have these layer of businesses that
• 21:06
  are built on top of existing
• 21:08
  infrastructure. So, you don't have to
• 21:10
  worry about being the one to supply the
• 21:11
  infrastructure. you just have to be the
• 21:13
  one about building a b a a wonderful
• 21:15
  business on top of it, which is what I
• 21:17
  love about what you what you're doing.
• 21:19
  You're actually you're putting your your
• 21:21
  um efforts on what's going to be most
• 21:23
  valuable uh and durable for your
• 21:25
  customers in the market. So, that's what
• 21:27
  I love about it. to to that point Megan
• 21:29
  in particular where what we think is
• 21:31
  going to be the most disruptive for the
• 21:33
  next few years in the water space is for
• 21:36
  these smaller utilities that don't have
• 21:38
  the ability to um make the capital
• 21:41
  investment of what even if it's in our
• 21:43
  hardware we believe metering as a
• 21:46
  service will be transformative for the
• 21:48
  industry and with Amazon Sidewalk being
• 21:51
  a free infrastructure option it is
• 21:54
  really the only way in our minds for uh
• 21:57
  a truly profitable
• 22:00
  uh relationship for the company and the
• 22:02
  utility. It really makes that
• 22:04
  attainable. Um there is nothing to
• 22:07
  manage. There is not ongoing field
• 22:09
  support that's required. And so a way to
• 22:12
  get that data back which is what the
• 22:14
  utility ultimately needs without the
• 22:17
  huge investment that you know I know
• 22:19
  many of the the OEMs have looked at
• 22:22
  their ability to to do NAS or mass at
• 22:26
  scale and it becomes cost prohibitive
• 22:28
  when that infrastructure piece is taken
• 22:30
  off the table with a partner like Amazon
• 22:32
  who already has a footprint out there at
• 22:34
  scale. 95% of the population of the
• 22:37
  United States is covered by Sidewalk
• 22:40
  right now and it's just growing. Um
• 22:43
  ultimately that makes those types of
• 22:45
  innovative business models possible and
• 22:47
  attainable for companies. So
• 22:49
  >> that's exciting. Yeah. And and you just
• 22:51
  may have described a solution. We have
• 22:53
  we've had multiple uh finance folks on
• 22:56
  the podcast because as we know funding
• 22:58
  it's it's just a a critical issue in our
• 23:01
  sector. There's not enough funding.
• 23:02
  Funding is not the sole answer. we have
• 23:04
  to meet funding plus solutions plus
• 23:06
  better operational um excellence. And I
• 23:09
  think you're an example of a of an
• 23:11
  actual solution that can provide, you
• 23:13
  know, an answer to some of this. I think
• 23:15
  it was a Bluefield research report that
• 23:18
  was talking about
• 23:19
  >> between 2020 and 2030
• 23:22
  >> um the uh expenditure for utilities
• 23:28
  moves from 5050 opex capex to more 65%
• 23:33
  opex
• 23:34
  >> um over over capex and so people looking
• 23:38
  there's an opportunity for utilities to
• 23:40
  buy something like metering as a service
• 23:43
  it opens up the door for for service
• 23:45
  growth um because that is more
• 23:49
  >> again meets the moment that the market
• 23:51
  >> is creating um it's just where it's
• 23:53
  moving.
• 23:54
  >> Yeah. Yeah. So um I'd love to to not
• 23:58
  miss the opportunity you know speaking
• 24:00
  of entrepreneurs to entrepreneurs um
• 24:02
  building businesses selling to
• 24:03
  municipalities. Um what has that journey
• 24:06
  been like for you? I mean from to from
• 24:08
  census to Zyllem to Amazon and now
• 24:12
  startups selling into municipalities.
• 24:14
  How how have you found it?
• 24:16
  >> So for me um I I think all of those
• 24:20
  experiences have built on each other to
• 24:22
  create a situation where I I feel a bit
• 24:25
  like a kid in a candy store running a
• 24:26
  startup that's really able to help water
• 24:28
  utilities. Um my time at Census was
• 24:31
  spent, as I mentioned, in failure
• 24:33
  analysis and quality for a while. uh
• 24:36
  that having that foundationally build
• 24:38
  into me the importance of having high
• 24:42
  quality product particularly for the
• 24:44
  utility industry which is highly risk
• 24:46
  averse um dealing with municipalities
• 24:49
  that it's always easier to not do
• 24:52
  anything than to do something innovative
• 24:56
  >> um means that that um high quality bar
• 24:59
  is crucial for everything that we do
• 25:02
  here. Um, and then going from that to
• 25:04
  deployment services. I feel like I'm
• 25:06
  moving up the the customer relationship
• 25:09
  chain through my career. But, you know,
• 25:11
  working with their deployments, um, and
• 25:13
  understanding the difficulty, the
• 25:15
  project management, the rollout
• 25:16
  complexity, getting access for the
• 25:18
  Northeast, inside sets, all those types
• 25:20
  of things were super critical to helping
• 25:23
  me understand how difficult this market
• 25:26
  is and why it's difficult. It's it's not
• 25:30
  just the if you gloss over it as a a VC
• 25:33
  of well utilities are hard. There's a
• 25:35
  lot of really great reasons that it is
• 25:38
  difficult and so making sure you
• 25:40
  understand those and address that
• 25:42
  >> um with the solution um is really super
• 25:45
  important. Being at Amazon laid a lot of
• 25:49
  the principles of like working backwards
• 25:51
  and so as I mentioned I have this deep
• 25:54
  understanding I can work backwards from
• 25:55
  those problems and impart that with our
• 25:57
  teams of this is truly what they are up
• 26:01
  against daytoday let's create a solution
• 26:03
  that actually solves that problem um has
• 26:07
  been super helpful for our team um and
• 26:10
  then but um our software group also many
• 26:14
  of them spent time at AWS and So they
• 26:16
  very tech forward, very thoughtful,
• 26:19
  innovative in what they adopt. We use
• 26:21
  quite a bit of generative AI to help us
• 26:24
  go faster and keep our team super lean,
• 26:27
  >> but we have a partner like Amazon that
• 26:28
  helps us do that fast and at scale. Um
• 26:31
  it has been a wonderful um uh layer cake
• 26:35
  to build to end up in the spot of um you
• 26:38
  know in my time at Big Corp, the thing
• 26:40
  was always I wanted to innovate faster.
• 26:43
  I wanted to listen to my customer more
• 26:46
  and deliver. And so for us to be able to
• 26:49
  do that, to get a request from a
• 26:51
  customer that that they wanted X
• 26:53
  feature, they really needed Y for this
• 26:56
  reason, and to be able to turn that in
• 26:58
  four weeks and deliver and have a field
• 27:00
  trial and have them say, "I've never had
• 27:02
  an OEM be able to deliver that for me
• 27:04
  before."
• 27:05
  >> That that's what I consider true a true
• 27:07
  win. Um, I believe that level of
• 27:10
  customer service is what utilities
• 27:12
  deserve and haven't had for 100 years.
• 27:16
  Um, and so that for me has been the most
• 27:19
  rewarding.
• 27:19
  >> Yeah. Shortening the distance from
• 27:21
  hearing the pain and delivering the
• 27:23
  solution. It's
• 27:24
  >> it's why 120 water exists. I'm like, you
• 27:26
  don't you don't have these basic tools
• 27:28
  that we've been using in other
• 27:30
  industries. My gosh, you're providing
• 27:31
  the most precious resource we're
• 27:33
  consuming. like
• 27:35
  >> you des you deserve better tools, you
• 27:37
  know.
• 27:38
  >> Yeah. Well, we're we're lucky to have
• 27:40
  you in our ecosystem um doing just that.
• 27:42
  What speaking of like the ecosystem, if
• 27:44
  you could wave your magic wand and
• 27:47
  identify a few things that would help
• 27:50
  you and your business move faster.
• 27:52
  >> Yeah. I I think for us, it's always
• 27:55
  interesting. We're a hardware uh heavy
• 27:59
  um product line um which was intentional
• 28:02
  for our part. We've we had I personally
• 28:04
  and Patrick Keaney, our former CEO, had
• 28:07
  worked with lots of water startups um
• 28:09
  and he was a consultant for a long time,
• 28:11
  but his favorite phrase is that
• 28:13
  consultants will say, "Give me your
• 28:14
  watch and I'll tell you the time." And
• 28:16
  it feels that way for many software
• 28:18
  solutions of you need the data from the
• 28:20
  utility for the solution to be effective
• 28:22
  and useful. We wanted to go the other
• 28:24
  way. We wanted to provide the data and
• 28:27
  then build the usefulness on top of
• 28:29
  that. And so that's how we've rotated.
• 28:32
  But what that means is we are um you
• 28:35
  know in many ways working against
• 28:37
  100-year-old incumbents. Many of them
• 28:40
  are innovating but where we could go
• 28:43
  faster for utilities is crossf
• 28:46
  functional collaboration. And there just
• 28:48
  isn't a lot of tendency in that space.
• 28:50
  We've seen exceptions. We've seen
• 28:51
  fantastic exceptions with a few of the
• 28:53
  partnerships we've been able to
• 28:55
  establish. Um, but we do have uniqueness
• 28:58
  and optionality and we have
• 29:00
  intentionally not been precious in our
• 29:03
  where we are willing to pipe and connect
• 29:05
  our data because that's what's best for
• 29:08
  the utility. Um, and I think there is a
• 29:11
  mindset of there is a certain size of
• 29:13
  pie. um and everybody needs to get their
• 29:16
  slice. But in reality, the breadth of
• 29:19
  problems that are seen by the water
• 29:21
  municipalities, particularly at the
• 29:23
  smaller scale, is so broad that there is
• 29:27
  a ton of opportunity where cross
• 29:29
  collaboration really enables them to all
• 29:32
  move faster. And so we've l leaned into
• 29:35
  those partnerships with other startups
• 29:38
  like Current Software where they have a
• 29:40
  billing and customer portal. We're happy
• 29:42
  to put our data there. We've even
• 29:44
  created a construct of um simplified
• 29:47
  billing for their the end customer where
• 29:49
  they don't pay us for their software
• 29:51
  platform, they pay us through current.
• 29:53
  Those types of collaborations could be
• 29:56
  transformative
• 29:58
  um instead of the territorial
• 30:01
  one-sizefits-all mega corp. All of the
• 30:04
  solutions have to come from one. And so
• 30:06
  I think it'll be interesting to see how
• 30:08
  that evolves. The ability for the market
• 30:10
  to shift, as you highlighted, Isaac,
• 30:13
  around more capex um or less capex and
• 30:16
  more opex optionality will help with
• 30:18
  that because software solutions are much
• 30:20
  easier to implement. Um and so we'll see
• 30:24
  how those partnerships unfold, but it's
• 30:25
  certainly what's best for our operators
• 30:27
  in the utility space.
• 30:29
  >> Couldn't could not agree more. I mean I
• 30:31
  mean to the point where I think talk
• 30:33
  about cross functional sometimes I I
• 30:35
  feel like there's even walls that
• 30:37
  separate these functions and and no one
• 30:40
  like infrastructure definitely doesn't
• 30:42
  talk to water quality or customer
• 30:43
  service even though you're using some of
• 30:45
  the same data and it's like it's
• 30:47
  mindboggling like well how do you get
• 30:48
  your location data customers like oh we
• 30:51
  don't or if we do sometimes it's like a
• 30:53
  one-time poll and it's like is it right
• 30:54
  it's just it's amazing to me like how
• 30:57
  physically siloed a lot of the
• 30:58
  operations are um inside a utility
• 31:01
  >> for sure.
• 31:02
  >> So, could not agree more on and share
• 31:04
  share the share that.
• 31:06
  >> Yeah. And I and I love the way you
• 31:08
  phrase that again. It's it just echoes
• 31:11
  the sentiment of having an abundance
• 31:13
  mindset over a scarcity mindset. Like we
• 31:16
  don't need to have a scarcity mindset.
• 31:18
  um when the mission is what's driving
• 31:21
  us. Um and so I think I think that's
• 31:24
  really what we end up appreciating about
• 31:26
  conversations with with folks like you
• 31:28
  is like it just it just bleeds or exudes
• 31:32
  that what's c what's central is customer
• 31:35
  experience. What's central is the
• 31:36
  mission and you build the business
• 31:39
  around the needs that that ends up
• 31:41
  dictating. Um,
• 31:43
  >> yep. Okay. Well, um, Ann, uh, bring us
• 31:46
  home. If you could, um, if we're sitting
• 31:49
  here 5 years from now reading, um,
• 31:52
  Sebeca's press release, uh, what what
• 31:54
  would it say?
• 31:57
  Yeah, I think our goal is maximum
• 32:00
  connectivity in the next five years.
• 32:02
  Whether that is for municipalities or
• 32:05
  commercial operators who now need to
• 32:07
  operate as many utilities because of
• 32:10
  their large footprints, their own
• 32:12
  constraints internally. Um it is um
• 32:16
  connectivity with ease. I we call it an
• 32:19
  Amazon like experience for water data
• 32:23
  and that's our goal. So, Subbeca becomes
• 32:25
  the solution of choice for water
• 32:28
  infrastructure connectivity.
• 32:30
  Whatever kind of data you need back,
• 32:33
  you've got multiple networks to do that
• 32:34
  with plugandplay
• 32:37
  level configurability. That's where
• 32:39
  we'll be. And it'll be global. Amazon
• 32:41
  Sidewalk for us has expanded this year
• 32:43
  to Canada and Mexico. By the end of the
• 32:46
  year, we'll be in um the EU, UK, New
• 32:50
  Zealand, Australia with sidewalk. And so
• 32:53
  for us that goes global and certainly
• 32:55
  with our footprint we're deploying for
• 32:57
  Amazon globally now in the EU and India.
• 33:01
  Um we'll be looking at other water
• 33:03
  constrained regions uh as they roll out
• 33:05
  further and we hope that the
• 33:07
  municipalities follow. So easy
• 33:09
  connectivity Amazon Lake take it out of
• 33:11
  the box plug it in configure and go.
• 33:14
  That's our goal.
• 33:15
  >> Let's do it. Well, we can't wait to
• 33:16
  follow that journey.
• 33:18
  >> Love it.
• 33:18
  >> Uh well great. And uh where can people
• 33:20
  find you? So, u we're super easy to
• 33:24
  find. Subbecca.com is our website. We're
• 33:26
  also always keep everybody updated on
• 33:29
  LinkedIn on our page. We have a lot of
• 33:32
  very exciting opportunities coming up um
• 33:35
  this year for us being named Amazon's in
• 33:38
  Amazon smart metering playbook was just
• 33:40
  announced and so um keep an eye out
• 33:42
  there for sure and on our website for
• 33:45
  news and events.
• 33:46
  >> Awesome. Awesome. Well, thank you so
• 33:48
  much Ann for joining this conversation.
• 33:51
  Um it's yeah it's just always a pleasure
• 33:54
  um to see you in person and today to
• 33:56
  have this conversation virtually. Um and
• 33:59
  thank you all for joining us for um
• 34:02
  another episode of the Make Waterwork
• 34:03
  podcast. Um these are important
• 34:06
  conversations that we love having and we
• 34:08
  love that you get to listen in. And so
• 34:10
  if you enjoyed this episode, please
• 34:12
  like, share, follow, comment. Let us
• 34:15
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• 34:16
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• 34:19
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• 34:23
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• 34:26
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