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379: Helping Kids Understand Their Diagnosis, with Drs. Katia Fredriksen and Yael Rothman · Beautifully Complex

0:02
Speaker 1: Kids notice far more than we think they do. And
0:06
Speaker 1: when no one explains why some things feel harder for them,
0:10
Speaker 1: they usually fill in those blanks with the most painful
0:14
Speaker 1: story available. I'm the problem. Today, I'm talking with pediatric neuropsychologists, Dr.
0:21
Speaker 1: Katia Fredrickson and Dr. Yael Rothman, authors of the Different
0:27
Speaker 1: Thinkers book series for kids. We discuss how to talk
0:31
Speaker 1: with your child about their diagnosis. We get into when
0:35
Speaker 1: to start, what words actually land, how to stay strengths-based
0:39
Speaker 1: without sugarcoating. They even provide some advice on what to
0:44
Speaker 1: say if your kid says,' I' m bad.' or asks, am
0:48
Speaker 1: I broken? I'm Penny Williams, and this is Beautifully Complex.
0:59
Speaker 1: Welcome back, everyone. I have two guests with me today.
1:04
Speaker 1: The authors of the Different Thinkers series of books is
1:09
Speaker 1: with me to talk about talking to your kids about
1:13
Speaker 1: their diagnosis, how to let them in on what's going on,
1:17
Speaker 1: but to also keep it strengths-based and positive and neuroaffirming.
1:21
Speaker 1: I get this question so often, so I'm so super
1:24
Speaker 1: happy to have some experts here to help me with
1:28
Speaker 1: helping you to guide your kids around this thing that
1:33
Speaker 1: isn't always common in parenting, right? Having a diagnosis for
1:37
Speaker 1: your kid and trying to have those conversations with them
1:41
Speaker 1: So will you all start by letting everybody know who
1:44
Speaker 1: you are, what you do, and then we are going
1:47
Speaker 1: to jump right into all that good stuff.
1:49
Speaker 2: Sure. Hi, I'm Yael Rothman. I am a pediatric neuropsychologist
1:56
Speaker 2: and I assess children with developmental differences. This could be
2:02
Speaker 2: with learning or with social-emotional differences or attention and executive
2:09
Speaker 2: functioning differences. I am currently located in New York and
2:15
Speaker 2: I met the other amazing speaker who's here today who
2:18
Speaker 2: will introduce herself when we were working together in a
2:22
Speaker 2: private practice in Maryland.
2:24
Speaker 3: So that would be me. I'm Katya Fredrickson, like Yael.
2:29
Speaker 3: I'm a pediatric neuropsychologist, which means, as she said, that
2:32
Speaker 3: we do assessments and provide diagnoses, recommendations, et cetera, to families.
2:39
Speaker 3: And so I work at the Stixrude Group, which is
2:42
Speaker 3: offices in Silver Spring, Maryland, and McLean, Virginia. Yeah, Elle
2:46
Speaker 3: rudely took herself off to New York, but previously we
2:49
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time together. But we're continuing to
2:53
Speaker 3: enjoy our time working, you know, on our book series,
2:56
Speaker 3: Different Thinkers, about presenting diagnosis, which is why we're here
2:59
Speaker 3: today and so excited to chat about that. Yeah.
3:01
Speaker 1: Where do we start with this conversation? I think kind
3:05
Speaker 1: of normalizing that this is difficult. Like if you're a parent...
3:09
Speaker 1: of a kid who has learning or thinking differences, it's
3:13
Speaker 1: difficult to figure out when to tell them, how to
3:15
Speaker 1: tell them, what to tell them.
3:16
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that's also because there's not really
3:22
Speaker 2: any research for us to look to, to say this
3:25
Speaker 2: is the way to do it. It's really interesting when
3:28
Speaker 2: you look back to neuropsychological evaluations in general, feedback wasn't
3:34
Speaker 2: even part of the initial assessments that were done. It
3:37
Speaker 2: would just be the doctor telling the other doctor what
3:39
Speaker 2: was going on instead of even telling the client. And
3:43
Speaker 2: then it was about telling the parents, but not telling
3:46
Speaker 2: the child. And now we are finally getting to the
3:49
Speaker 2: point where we realize how important it is for everybody
3:53
Speaker 2: to know how their brain works and how they think
3:56
Speaker 2: and how they learn so they can become their best
3:58
Speaker 2: self-advocates and understand how they think and learn fast.
4:02
Speaker 3: And there's such a fear associated with it, right, as
4:05
Speaker 3: a parent. So many parents fear the idea of a,
4:08
Speaker 3: you know, quote unquote, a label that will sort of
4:11
Speaker 3: put their child in a certain pigeonhole and potentially circumscribe
4:16
Speaker 3: their future or, you know, very sort of strong concerns
4:20
Speaker 3: that parents naturally have. And we always like to talk
4:24
Speaker 3: with parents about how, you know, kids are so much
4:28
Speaker 3: more aware than we might realize, you know, the expression
4:30
Speaker 3: little pitchers, big ears, right? They're so conscious of what's
4:35
Speaker 3: going on around them in a way that we're not
4:38
Speaker 3: always privy to And we want to be sure that
4:41
Speaker 3: they have an accurate understanding of the sorts of things
4:46
Speaker 3: that might be affecting them that they might be noticing.
4:48
Speaker 1: And do we always tell our kids about their diagnosis?
4:52
Speaker 1: Is there a time where we don't or where we wait?
4:55
Speaker 2: So, again, I.
4:58
Speaker 2: I like to think of myself as an evidence-based practitioner,
5:01
Speaker 2: and I don't have any research to look to in
5:03
Speaker 2: these situations. So I do try to make it more
5:05
Speaker 2: of an individual approach for the clients, but I would
5:10
Speaker 2: say I have not yet not recommended sharing a diagnosis
5:15
Speaker 2: with a child. I think that it can be such
5:19
Speaker 2: an important experience. There are some, like Katya was saying
5:24
Speaker 2: about empowering, changing the narrative, and also Everyone knows something's
5:29
Speaker 2: going on, but how about if we gave you words,
5:32
Speaker 2: a community, resources to look to so you know you're
5:35
Speaker 2: not alone in this journey? I have had some families
5:40
Speaker 2: who are not yet ready to share with their kids,
5:44
Speaker 2: and so I provided... information on how I would do
5:48
Speaker 2: it and then said, please return when you're ready. And
5:51
Speaker 2: I've had some families come back to me three years later,
5:54
Speaker 2: which has been amazing. And we were able to have
5:57
Speaker 2: that important discussion. I've also had families who want me
6:01
Speaker 2: to share strengths and challenges, but not the diagnosis themselves.
6:05
Speaker 2: And I work with everybody to meet you where you're at.
6:09
Speaker 2: But I think that the language can be so helpful
6:11
Speaker 2: for a young person. Mm-hmm.
6:14
Speaker 1: Because they make up a story and blame themselves, but
6:17
Speaker 1: they don't have an explanation. That's what I've seen.
6:19
Speaker 3: Oh, 100%. So true, right? We're so quick as human
6:23
Speaker 3: beings to attribute a negative to ourselves, unfortunately. It's very
6:29
Speaker 3: much internalized. I'm the problem as opposed to there's something
6:34
Speaker 3: different about the way I'm developing that maybe my classroom
6:36
Speaker 3: is not geared toward or, you know, that's not how
6:40
Speaker 3: kids naturally think in general, right?
6:42
Speaker 2: Yeah.
6:43
Speaker 1: It gives them an explanation for the struggle that they're having,
6:46
Speaker 1: which I think is really helpful for mental health to
6:49
Speaker 1: not be blaming and shaming yourself, right? I think anybody
6:52
Speaker 1: would agree with that.
6:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think in some situations, some young people
6:59
Speaker 2: find it a relief. It can be comforting and also
7:03
Speaker 2: maybe discovering a community like I've had. several autistic individuals
7:07
Speaker 2: who find out that their diagnosis of autism really find
7:11
Speaker 2: a community of other autistic individuals to befriend and get
7:15
Speaker 2: along with. And that's been amazing and empowering that way.
7:20
Speaker 3: And it's worth mentioning, I mean, it's not always an
7:23
Speaker 3: immediate positive response, right? I mean, just, you know, ideally speaking,
7:28
Speaker 3: and many times it is, but sometimes it's not. And
7:32
Speaker 3: then sometimes We sort of can work to dispel any
7:35
Speaker 3: potential misconceptions. You know, the whole, my cousin has ADHD
7:40
Speaker 3: and I am not at all like, you know what
7:43
Speaker 3: I mean? Where people sort of are assuming that because
7:45
Speaker 3: somebody else has the same label, it means that they
7:47
Speaker 3: will present exactly. So you can just help to dispel
7:50
Speaker 3: some of those ideas. But you don't always get an
7:53
Speaker 3: immediate positive reaction. I think that's part of what parents fear, right?
7:56
Speaker 3: Is that the child will be angry or upset. I
8:00
Speaker 3: would say that's pretty rare sometimes. When you present it
8:03
Speaker 3: in a neuroaffirming manner.
8:06
Speaker 2: So one thing that I have been doing more and
8:12
Speaker 2: more throughout my career is this feedback begins at intake.
8:16
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've ever heard of this theory.
8:19
Speaker 2: Maybe it was Karen Postol and Kira Armstrong. They wrote
8:22
Speaker 2: this book about feedbacks with adults and a little bit
8:25
Speaker 2: with children. But it's about sharing information throughout the process.
8:30
Speaker 2: So when I'm with a young person, a kid or
8:32
Speaker 2: a teen, I start saying like, how did you feel
8:37
Speaker 2: about the activity we just did? And I hear their
8:40
Speaker 2: thoughts and what do you think about what's going on?
8:43
Speaker 2: And try to hear from them, why do you think
8:45
Speaker 2: this is happening? And then you can kind of start
8:48
Speaker 2: peppering in a little bit, even before you give the
8:50
Speaker 2: feedback a few weeks later. So I had a recent client,
8:55
Speaker 2: I think a 12-year-old who was telling me, that they
8:58
Speaker 2: are really struggling with reading and it's been really hard,
9:01
Speaker 2: but I don't have dyslexia. I said, oh, okay. What
9:04
Speaker 2: does that mean? What do you think that means? Oh,
9:07
Speaker 2: because the words don't flip in my head when I
9:09
Speaker 2: read them. And so I'm like, oh, here's what dyslexia
9:12
Speaker 2: actually is. And she goes, oh, I might have dyslexia.
9:16
Speaker 2: And I said, oh, that's one of the things we're
9:18
Speaker 2: going to look at then and understand. It was so
9:20
Speaker 2: great because we were already starting that conversation even before
9:23
Speaker 2: I am getting to the data or anything. So I'm
9:27
Speaker 2: starting it. So then by the time I give the feedback,
9:30
Speaker 2: it's already a little bit there. So I don't have
9:33
Speaker 2: any surprises or something unexpected that might come up.
9:37
Speaker 1: So being really curious with them about what's going on,
9:41
Speaker 1: what they think is going on.
9:43
Speaker 3: I like that.
9:44
Speaker 2: When something looks hard in testing, I pause. What do
9:48
Speaker 2: you think is going on here? Oh, yeah. Well, in school,
9:51
Speaker 2: I also have that. Or this is really tough. Yeah. Uh-huh.
9:55
Speaker 2: So you said this is hard.
9:57
Speaker 3: And this is hard.
9:58
Speaker 2: And both of us, when Katya and I give feedbacks,
10:00
Speaker 2: we use the kids' words. So we're really trying to
10:04
Speaker 2: tell families to do the same. What are they saying? Oh,
10:07
Speaker 2: math is so boring and hard. Or I can't pay
10:11
Speaker 2: attention when it's not interesting to me. Or it is
10:14
Speaker 2: so hard for me to start a conversation. Whatever it is,
10:19
Speaker 2: I like to use their words. You know how you
10:21
Speaker 2: said this? Well, guess what? I saw that that is
10:24
Speaker 2: truly hard for you. And it has a name. And
10:26
Speaker 2: this is what, you know, and kind of build on that.
10:29
Speaker 2: Is that what you would say to Katya?
10:30
Speaker 3: Mm-hmm. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the more you can use either, well,
10:35
Speaker 3: obviously the child's words themselves, or perhaps like a favorite
10:39
Speaker 3: teacher or, you know what I mean? As long as
10:42
Speaker 3: it increases the, I guess, just the meaningfulness of just
10:47
Speaker 3: how deeply it lands, right? As opposed to this external
10:51
Speaker 3: doctor who you've only met a couple of times is
10:52
Speaker 3: now going to tell you about yourself, right? That's not
10:55
Speaker 3: a particularly empowering experience for anyone.
10:58
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
10:59
Speaker 3: Yeah.
11:00
Speaker 1: And it can be such a challenge for the parents
11:02
Speaker 1: and so laden with emotion too. It can be really
11:07
Speaker 1: hard for a parent to, you know, maybe even tell
11:10
Speaker 1: them about the diagnosis without being openly emotional. Is that okay?
11:15
Speaker 1: Or should they wait, right?
11:17
Speaker 3: I think it's better if they wait a little. Like
11:20
Speaker 3: we want to be sure we have our own, our
11:23
Speaker 3: feelings managed, our questions answered, right? So we can go
11:27
Speaker 3: in with a sense of, certainty and positivity about something.
11:31
Speaker 3: And of course, if emotions intrude, they intrude. I mean,
11:33
Speaker 3: we're human beings. We can't always control that. But just
11:35
Speaker 3: the more we can sort of lay the groundwork. And
11:38
Speaker 3: part of it, I think, often is this whole parents
11:41
Speaker 3: either realize or come to realize that maybe they had
11:44
Speaker 3: similar profile when they were a child. And gosh, back
11:47
Speaker 3: in the 80s, it was darn hard having X, you know,
11:51
Speaker 3: this learning disorder, ADHD or whatever. And so part of
11:54
Speaker 3: the narrative with parents can also be around. Guess what?
11:57
Speaker 3: There have been lots of advancements in terms of how
11:59
Speaker 3: we think about things and interventions, and it can help
12:02
Speaker 3: people sort of see things from a different angle.
12:06
Speaker 2: I think it can be really powerful to come in
12:08
Speaker 2: without that bias that you might bring to the table
12:12
Speaker 2: if you're feeling negative or positive sometimes, I guess, about
12:16
Speaker 2: what's going on. So just doing all your research, feeling
12:19
Speaker 2: comfortable with the diagnosis and profile, and then can come
12:23
Speaker 2: in and explain it in a very understanding way for
12:27
Speaker 2: your child.
12:28
Speaker 3: I was just going to say that's something we can
12:30
Speaker 3: assist with. Like we always offer and gosh, I try
12:34
Speaker 3: to insist, especially with middle school and up on doing
12:37
Speaker 3: a feedback directly with the student because they're at an
12:40
Speaker 3: age where, you know, they really, and I'm happy to
12:42
Speaker 3: do it with the kids as well. But so we
12:45
Speaker 3: can help with that. And also many of us in
12:48
Speaker 3: our field routinely sort of are starting to add a
12:51
Speaker 3: letter for the child at the end of the report
12:53
Speaker 3: so that they have a piece of sort of concrete,
12:56
Speaker 3: you know, something to carry on with them to refer
12:59
Speaker 3: to as needed.
12:59
Speaker 1: I love that. Such a great idea.
13:02
Speaker 2: Having something tangible, I think, can be really great because
13:05
Speaker 2: the conversations are going, it's not one conversation and you're
13:09
Speaker 2: done talking about it. You're going to refer back to
13:11
Speaker 2: something over and over, have many conversations. I talk to
13:15
Speaker 2: every kiddo I see if we're all on the same
13:18
Speaker 2: page and we're able to do the feedback. And so
13:21
Speaker 2: I love talking to six-year-olds too. I think it's great.
13:24
Speaker 2: They have zero stigma. Yes, yes. They don't know so
13:30
Speaker 2: much yet. So it's so nice to start the conversation
13:32
Speaker 2: with them. I love that. And they might not have
13:35
Speaker 2: a lot to say at that time, and that's okay.
13:37
Speaker 2: They're just kind of listening. But I do a PowerPoint
13:39
Speaker 2: presentation and Katya likes to do a letter. There's so
13:42
Speaker 2: many different ways to share this. But then you can
13:45
Speaker 2: refer back to it in a year or talk to
13:48
Speaker 2: your interventionists in a year and share that with them
13:51
Speaker 2: or whatever it might be to continue that conversation.
14:08
Speaker 1: How does a parent get started with this conversation? I
14:12
Speaker 1: feel like a lot of it is about concern anxiety
14:15
Speaker 1: around having the conversation how our kid is going to
14:17
Speaker 1: react are we going to be able to handle how
14:20
Speaker 1: they react right and just like getting over that hump
14:24
Speaker 1: at the beginning can be hard is there some sort
14:28
Speaker 1: of general area that they could start with or some
14:32
Speaker 1: general um sort of loose script maybe that would help
14:36
Speaker 1: parents to sort of push over that hump a little
14:40
Speaker 1: bit and be able to get going I.
14:42
Speaker 3: Mean, that's a great question. I think one thing that
14:45
Speaker 3: you want to consider is picking a good moment, right?
14:49
Speaker 3: Like we want to start this conversation, not in a
14:52
Speaker 3: moment of stress or we're rushing off somewhere and, oh,
14:56
Speaker 3: by the way, you know, like we really want to
14:58
Speaker 3: sort of have a good moment. And in some families,
15:01
Speaker 3: maybe that's sitting down together. Maybe it's taking a walk.
15:04
Speaker 3: Maybe it's whatever. I mean, just whatever works in the
15:06
Speaker 3: context of a family. So that's a piece to think
15:09
Speaker 3: about as we're sort of making our plans and When
15:12
Speaker 3: you've done an evaluation, for example, with one of us,
15:15
Speaker 3: that's a natural point, right? You know how you met
15:18
Speaker 3: with Dr. So-and-so and blah, blah, right? Yeah. So that's
15:23
Speaker 3: a potential entry point if there's been an appointment with
15:26
Speaker 3: a professional or something of that nature.
15:29
Speaker 2: We, Katya and I have talked about like kind of
15:32
Speaker 2: a step process to think about like first that parents
15:37
Speaker 2: get comfortable, right? with the diagnosis, ask the questions that
15:41
Speaker 2: they need answered, and talk to professionals about it. And then,
15:45
Speaker 2: like she was saying, decide when the conversation's gonna happen.
15:49
Speaker 2: Having it a schedule, like we're gonna talk after you're
15:53
Speaker 2: done with this assessment, or having it arise organically, like
15:57
Speaker 2: if a child is saying, I'm really struggling with reading today,
16:02
Speaker 2: and this is so frustrating that I can't sound these
16:05
Speaker 2: words out. You know, there's a reason why. And you
16:08
Speaker 2: can like it can arise organically that way, too. But
16:12
Speaker 2: we like to present this information just how we present
16:16
Speaker 2: it to parents a little bit, where you start talking
16:19
Speaker 2: about strengths and talking about areas of challenge, introducing concepts
16:25
Speaker 2: like neurodiversity and what a profile looks with these strengths
16:31
Speaker 2: and challenges could be called. And then where do we
16:33
Speaker 2: go from here? So talking about recommendations and supports that
16:37
Speaker 2: you could put in place.
16:38
Speaker 1: And of course your different thinkers books can help with
16:41
Speaker 1: this too, right? I'm just thinking like, do we start
16:44
Speaker 1: there though? Do we start with maybe reading a book
16:47
Speaker 1: about what ADHD is like or what autism is like
16:50
Speaker 1: and then go into the conversation or do we have
16:52
Speaker 1: the conversation? And I know this is different for everyone,
16:56
Speaker 1: but like, can you give some sort of, basis?
16:59
Speaker 3: We certainly could. We certainly could, right? I have done
17:03
Speaker 3: some book readings at elementary schools with the ADHD book
17:07
Speaker 3: in particular. And whenever, you know, the book, each of
17:10
Speaker 3: the books, there's ADHD, autism, and dyslexia just came out.
17:14
Speaker 3: But with ADHD and the other two, there are three vignettes, right?
17:17
Speaker 3: Three little characters who represent different elements of how the
17:20
Speaker 3: diagnosis may present. And so when I'm doing the readings
17:24
Speaker 3: at elementary schools and so on. And I even went
17:26
Speaker 3: to my daughter's school and she was mortified anyway. So
17:28
Speaker 3: I'm doing the little readings I'll go through and I'll say,
17:31
Speaker 3: you know, does this feel familiar to you? Like how does,
17:33
Speaker 3: you know, cause, and that's embedded in the text, a
17:36
Speaker 3: sort of a cue to talk about like, does this
17:39
Speaker 3: ever happen to you? So-and-so struggles with this. Have you
17:41
Speaker 3: had that experience? And so when I'm reading that sometimes
17:43
Speaker 3: kids will be like, And they're sharing all their little things.
17:50
Speaker 3: Just laughing inside. It's so charming because they're not old
17:53
Speaker 3: enough yet to feel subconscious. But so it can be
17:58
Speaker 3: a good vehicle in that regard to get started.
18:01
Speaker 2: I think that that can be very helpful for parents
18:06
Speaker 2: if they read bedtime books together with a character who
18:10
Speaker 2: has different thinking profile or watch a video or even
18:14
Speaker 2: they're watching TV together and they stop and say like, oh,
18:17
Speaker 2: did you see what happened in this situation? And you
18:20
Speaker 2: can also start by just sharing the diagnosis with your
18:24
Speaker 2: child directly and then going to these resources. I think
18:27
Speaker 2: that both of these are fine ways to do it.
18:30
Speaker 3: So you could use a prompt, like either remember that
18:34
Speaker 3: assessment you had or You know, I went to your
18:38
Speaker 3: fall teacher conference and your teacher told me X or,
18:42
Speaker 3: you know, after soccer practice the other day, your coach
18:44
Speaker 3: mentioned Y. I mean, so we could use as an entree,
18:48
Speaker 3: like a practical situation that has arisen to sort of
18:52
Speaker 3: anchor it in real life. And then that can be
18:54
Speaker 3: the start of a conversation.
18:55
Speaker 2: Yeah.
18:57
Speaker 1: So many ways to go.
18:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's no right or wrong.
19:01
Speaker 1: There's no right or wrong, but I think parents fear
19:03
Speaker 1: that there is. And that's why it's so important to
19:05
Speaker 1: have the conversation that we're having. You're not going to
19:10
Speaker 1: damage your child in the way, I mean, I guess
19:12
Speaker 1: you could, but you're not likely the parent that's here
19:14
Speaker 1: listening to this. It's not going to be as bad
19:19
Speaker 1: as you think it's going to be probably. But what
19:22
Speaker 1: if something that a parent fears comes up? What if
19:26
Speaker 1: the kid asks, Does that mean I'm broken?
19:28
Speaker 3: Am I bad?
19:31
Speaker 1: What kind of responses can a parent have in their
19:34
Speaker 1: back pocket so they know if this comes up, I
19:38
Speaker 1: know approximately what to say?
19:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think one of the things that we do
19:43
Speaker 2: when we share this is talking about also, this is
19:47
Speaker 2: harder for you, but here are ways to help you.
19:51
Speaker 2: Here are other people who have similar profiles and here
19:53
Speaker 2: are strengths that come along with this profile. So we're
19:56
Speaker 2: trying to embed that it's not, we're saying that things
20:00
Speaker 2: are wrong or bad. When we talk about neurodiversity, it's
20:04
Speaker 2: about that everyone thinks differently. in different ways. It doesn't
20:08
Speaker 2: mean one way is right and one way is wrong,
20:11
Speaker 2: but here are ways to help you be the best
20:13
Speaker 2: at how your brain works and how your brain thinks.
20:16
Speaker 2: So we don't sugarcoat that things aren't going to be hard.
20:19
Speaker 2: I think that's important. It's important to take a strengths-based approach,
20:23
Speaker 2: but it doesn't mean we mask everything that's going to
20:25
Speaker 2: be a challenge. And we go through that. But hopefully
20:28
Speaker 2: what we're doing is in the conversation, we're embedding all
20:32
Speaker 2: of this positive and look at all these successful individuals.
20:36
Speaker 2: And maybe a parent might say, and I actually had
20:38
Speaker 2: this challenge when I was your age and just showing
20:42
Speaker 2: there's a way to support you and find what's best
20:44
Speaker 2: for you.
20:45
Speaker 3: I loved how you put that. I was just going
20:47
Speaker 3: to say a practical example, like what I'll often write
20:49
Speaker 3: in letters to kids is, so for just as a
20:52
Speaker 3: practical example, like say you have ADHD, so I'll often
20:55
Speaker 3: write care all the things you're good at that everybody
20:58
Speaker 3: all the nice things of your parents your teacher your
21:01
Speaker 3: coach whoever I talk to the things I enjoyed about
21:04
Speaker 3: meeting with you here all the strengths I saw in
21:06
Speaker 3: the testing some things are harder guess what I mean
21:09
Speaker 3: as is the case for all of us right and
21:11
Speaker 3: here are the things that I saw that are harder
21:13
Speaker 3: for you so say for example if you're presenting an
21:16
Speaker 3: ADHD diagnosis you could say I noticed in the testing
21:20
Speaker 3: and your teacher said or whatever that when things are
21:23
Speaker 3: harder for you or you feel bored, it's harder for
21:26
Speaker 3: you to focus. And sometimes you make inattentive mistakes and,
21:31
Speaker 3: you know, have trouble staying organized, that sort of thing.
21:33
Speaker 3: Then it's obviously just a very simplified description, right? Because
21:37
Speaker 3: you don't want to overwhelm someone. Those things mean that
21:40
Speaker 3: you have something called ADHD. And then I'll sort of say,
21:43
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know if you've heard of ADHD
21:46
Speaker 3: or or that you know how many strengths we know
21:49
Speaker 3: are associated with ADHD, like creativity, spontaneity, out-of-the-box thinking, energy,
21:53
Speaker 3: et cetera. Many entertainers, athletes, inventors, et cetera, have talked about,
21:57
Speaker 3: entrepreneurs have talked about how their ADHD has supported them
22:00
Speaker 3: on their journey. So you can sort of mention both
22:03
Speaker 3: the things that are harder and the joyful things that
22:06
Speaker 3: come along with it, right? So you're not losing sight
22:09
Speaker 3: of strengths, and nor are you, as Yael said, masking.
22:13
Speaker 3: I mean, things that genuinely can be harder, right? Mm-hmm.
22:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm thinking about my own experience too. And I
22:22
Speaker 1: can't even tell you at this point, my kid's 24
22:24
Speaker 1: almost now. So I don't remember the exact conversation when
22:27
Speaker 1: he was six, but it seemed to be a relief
22:30
Speaker 1: to him because he was starting, even at age six,
22:34
Speaker 1: he was starting to blame himself. And I remember shortly after,
22:39
Speaker 1: maybe within a year of the diagnosis, he had a
22:42
Speaker 1: therapist who did activity with him where she had the
22:46
Speaker 1: big roll of paper, and she had him lay down
22:48
Speaker 1: on it, she traced his body, and then the whole
22:51
Speaker 1: time they spent writing down all the things about him,
22:55
Speaker 1: and then talked about how ADHD was only one of
22:58
Speaker 1: the things that was all over that paper. And I
23:02
Speaker 1: will never forget his face when I opened the door
23:05
Speaker 1: to come get him, he's done with his time with
23:07
Speaker 1: her by himself, and he's skipping down the hall. He's
23:11
Speaker 1: so happy. And I realized that like, that's the moment
23:16
Speaker 1: where it was like, oh my gosh, we really need
23:18
Speaker 1: to talk about more than the struggle. And we really
23:22
Speaker 1: need to focus more on strengths because I was just
23:25
Speaker 1: in fix it mode, right? That's all I knew at
23:26
Speaker 1: the time. And that was a really big eye opener.
23:29
Speaker 1: But I also, I recommend it to parents all the
23:32
Speaker 1: time in coaching, like do this activity and you don't
23:35
Speaker 1: necessarily have to lay down on the paper. You could
23:36
Speaker 1: just have a little body outline, you know, whatever works,
23:40
Speaker 1: but make sure that they recognize That they're more than
23:44
Speaker 1: just the things that they're struggling with, right?
23:47
Speaker 3: Definitely. And so many strengths that certainly make things we
23:50
Speaker 3: can quantify when we do testing, but so many strengths
23:52
Speaker 3: that cannot be quantified, like being a thoughtful kid, like
23:57
Speaker 3: that's going to carry you far in life. And we
23:59
Speaker 3: can't assign a number or a quote unquote, like quantitative
24:03
Speaker 3: value to that. But these are things that we really
24:06
Speaker 3: need to help kids appreciate them about themselves.
24:09
Speaker 2: Mm hmm.
24:10
Speaker 1: Anything that we've missed that you feel is really important
24:13
Speaker 1: in this conversation before we wrap up?
24:16
Speaker 2: I think we've talked about a lot of the ways
24:19
Speaker 2: that we share with families about how to talk about
24:22
Speaker 2: a diagnosis, why we think it's important, how it can
24:25
Speaker 2: be so empowering for young people. And then I think
24:29
Speaker 2: asking for help. If you as a parent are feeling
24:34
Speaker 2: not ready or uncomfortable, ask different providers to support you
24:38
Speaker 2: through this. So You don't have to be the one
24:40
Speaker 2: that starts this conversation. It could be a provider that
24:44
Speaker 2: is with you in the room and you talk all
24:45
Speaker 2: together and then you continue that conversation later.
24:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an excellent idea.
24:52
Speaker 1: And you continue it as they grow, right? If they
24:54
Speaker 1: have an earlier diagnosis, I think the understanding of it
24:58
Speaker 1: can sort of morph and change as they get older too.
25:02
Speaker 2: A hundred percent. I, again, that conversation is going to
25:05
Speaker 2: look different. I have I had a talk with my
25:08
Speaker 2: son at the age of five about ADHD, and it's
25:11
Speaker 2: going to look very different when we talk about it
25:13
Speaker 2: in a few years and keep talking throughout time. But
25:17
Speaker 2: it's just part of the part of the story.
25:22
Speaker 1: Tell everybody where they can find the book, where they
25:24
Speaker 1: can find you all online so that they can continue
25:28
Speaker 1: to learn from you.
25:29
Speaker 3: Well, we, so we have three books. It's the different
25:33
Speaker 3: thinkers series. There's ADHD, autism, and dyslexia. So you've got
25:36
Speaker 3: a variety, a variety pack there. Our publishers are Boys
25:41
Speaker 3: Town Press and the books are available there. They're available
25:43
Speaker 3: on Amazon. They're available, you know, out and about in
25:47
Speaker 3: the bookstore at the library. I saw it at my
25:49
Speaker 3: public library the other day. So that was nice. And
25:52
Speaker 3: we have a website, neuropsychmoms.com, where you can contact us
25:57
Speaker 3: and just, you know, gather information.
25:59
Speaker 2: And right now the books are translated into French and Vietnamese,
26:03
Speaker 2: if those are resources you are looking for. Yes. But yes,
26:11
Speaker 2: you can find our website, Neuropsych Moms. You can find
26:13
Speaker 2: us on Instagram at Neuropsych Moms. I am in New
26:17
Speaker 2: York at my own private practice. And Katya is in
26:23
Speaker 2: Maryland at the Stixxer Group.
26:25
Speaker 1: And I'll link the book up and your website up
26:29
Speaker 1: in the show notes so it's easy for everyone to
26:31
Speaker 1: find and connect with you. Thank you for writing these
26:35
Speaker 1: books for kids about hard conversations and hard topics. Like,
26:40
Speaker 1: it's not easy stuff. And I find more and more
26:43
Speaker 1: parents actually looking for books that kids can read and
26:47
Speaker 1: they can either see themselves represented or they can learn
26:51
Speaker 1: more about their diagnosis and from other avenues and not
26:55
Speaker 1: just from the parent or the clinician. And so I
26:59
Speaker 1: love that we're getting just more and more of this available.
27:03
Speaker 1: So I really appreciate what you guys are doing.
27:05
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.
27:06
Speaker 1: It's a huge help.
27:07
Speaker 2: It's why we wrote them. We couldn't find exactly what
27:10
Speaker 2: we were looking for when we were trying to find resources.
27:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, parents ask all the time. Yeah.
27:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, I get the question a lot too. So now
27:17
Speaker 1: I have some more books to add to my recommendations,
27:20
Speaker 1: which I'm really excited about. So I'll see everybody next time.
27:24
Speaker 1: Take good care. Visit beautifully-complex.com for more resources, coaching, and
27:32
Speaker 1: parent training. And help another kid by sharing this with
27:35
Speaker 1: someone who could benefit from listening.