Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #862 Solving Lunch Box Headaches with Deb Blakley

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#862 Solving Lunch Box Headaches with Deb Blakley · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just
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Speaker 2: wants answers.
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Speaker 3: Now.
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Speaker 2: Hello, this is doctor Justin Colison. Welcome to a Happy
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Speaker 2: Families podcast. So grateful to have you here and that
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Speaker 2: you're choosing to spend your time with me talking about
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Speaker 2: your kids and how we can make your family happier.
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Speaker 2: Kids are probably if your children are anything like mine,
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Speaker 2: showing up at home hungry after school and you discover
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Speaker 2: that they gave their lunch to somebody else because they
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Speaker 2: didn't like it, or worse, they threw it in the bin,
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Speaker 2: and you're sort of thinking, number one, it costs a
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Speaker 2: lot of money to do this, to provide lunches. But
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Speaker 2: number two, do you think that I've got time to
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Speaker 2: sit around in the morning and make you a lunch
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Speaker 2: that you're not going to eat? I mean, this is
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Speaker 2: the challenge with kids. Or alternatively, they're just complaining and
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Speaker 2: winging and whining and they saying I don't like anything. Today.
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Speaker 2: I'm having a conversation with Deb Blakely, the founded director
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Speaker 2: and lead a credited practicing dietitian of Kids Dig Food.
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Speaker 2: You can find everything that you need to know about
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Speaker 2: Deb and kids Digfood at kidsdigfood dot com dot you
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Speaker 2: Deb follow her heart, I think would be the easiest
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Speaker 2: way to say this, Like just loves this work and
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Speaker 2: created Kids dig Food in twenty thirteen. It's been ten
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Speaker 2: years now after many years as a community dietitian, community
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Speaker 2: nutritionist and a hospital based clinical dietitian, and Deb has
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Speaker 2: a sense to become passionate about supporting grown ups to
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Speaker 2: positively and joyfully connect or reconnect with food and eating
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Speaker 2: and share this with the children that they care for.
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Speaker 2: And now, Deb, I love food and I love sharing food.
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Speaker 2: My children don't appreciate the way of that I do.
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Speaker 2: I don't know if you've noticed this, but kids they're
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Speaker 2: happy to eat the cheap ice cream, whereas when we
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Speaker 2: get a bit older, we start to avoid the cheap stuff.
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Speaker 2: We just go for the good stuff, right Like our
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Speaker 2: taste buds have matured, we know what's good and what's not.
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Speaker 2: But kids, we sort of say they'll eat anything, and
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Speaker 2: then it comes to school lunch boxes and they won't
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Speaker 2: eat anything at all. Why is school lunch so challenging
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Speaker 2: for so many families?
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Speaker 1: Yes, eating of school.
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Speaker 3: Is really different to eating in other places, and there's
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Speaker 3: a lot to think about for kids when they're eating
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Speaker 3: at school. So it might to us seem like, oh,
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Speaker 3: I've given you the lunch, it's come home, it's either
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Speaker 3: not eaten or it's all gone, and you're saying you're hungry.
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Speaker 3: And there's different routines and expectations, and as we know,
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Speaker 3: there's often less time to eat, so sometimes kids are
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Speaker 3: only given ten minutes maybe to get their lunch done,
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Speaker 3: and depending on the child, that may or may not
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Speaker 3: be enough time. And if they're a bit of a
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Speaker 3: chatter box, then that might get in the way of
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Speaker 3: eating as well, or if they're more interested in play.
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Speaker 3: So it can be really helpful to work out what
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Speaker 3: the environment in the school is like around lunches, what
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Speaker 3: the routine is like, because it can take a little
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Speaker 3: bit of problem solving with your child and maybe with
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Speaker 3: the school and with the teachers to work out what's
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Speaker 3: going on.
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Speaker 2: Sometimes we had a situation, so one of our kids
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Speaker 2: got ADHD and we had a situation where she just said,
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Speaker 2: I haven't got time. Realized that she was just so
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Speaker 2: busy as soon as the bell went she had so
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Speaker 2: many things that she needed to do in that little
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Speaker 2: period of time because she knew that she'd be back
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Speaker 2: in the classroom soon, and she wanted to run and
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Speaker 2: play and talk to friends and do everything, and eating
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Speaker 2: was such a low priority. Of course, kids, especially kids
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Speaker 2: who have any kind of additional needs, when they're not eating,
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Speaker 2: they become even more difficult to manage. And we kept
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Speaker 2: on trying to say to it, you need to eat
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Speaker 2: the food, like we've packed it for you. You've got
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Speaker 2: to do it. You've got to eat first. But they
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Speaker 2: just don't want to. And I remember having a conversation
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Speaker 2: some years ago with one teacher. She was essentially saying,
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Speaker 2: making sure that all twenty eight kids in my class
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Speaker 2: eat their lunch is one thing that I just can't
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Speaker 2: promise that I can do. I'm sympathetic to that, but
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Speaker 2: like you said, we have this perfect well where we think, okay,
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Speaker 2: we'll have a conversation with a teacher and everything I'll
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Speaker 2: be okay. Doesn't always work like.
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Speaker 3: That, No, it certainly doesn't. And I think the teacher's
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Speaker 3: right that you know, it's it can actually be quite
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Speaker 3: unrealistic to say to a.
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Speaker 1: Teacher, you know, please speed my child. All my kid eats.
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Speaker 3: So there's a lot of other things that we can do,
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Speaker 3: and kids with special needs, say, who, for example, your
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Speaker 3: daughter who isn't eating or wasn't eating very much. You know,
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Speaker 3: sometimes they do need a bit more support around that,
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Speaker 3: and that support can look really different in many different ways.
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Speaker 3: But let's just say, let's take a broader approach and say,
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Speaker 3: you know, we've got a typically developing child or a
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Speaker 3: child who might have special needs where you just think
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Speaker 3: they're just not paying attention. There's something getting away in
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Speaker 3: the way for them. So some of the things we
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Speaker 3: can do from the home perspective is do a bit
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Speaker 3: of problem solving and go, okay, so tell me what's
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Speaker 3: going on, what do you really want to be doing,
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Speaker 3: Like what happens in that ten minutes? And can we
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Speaker 3: problem solve together? You know, depending on the child's age,
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Speaker 3: it can be possible to problem solve together and say, okay, well,
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Speaker 3: if we put something in your lunch box that literally.
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Speaker 1: Took you thirty seconds to eat, just so that.
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Speaker 3: To make sure that you're having something at each break
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Speaker 3: to keep you going, what would that be Do you
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Speaker 3: think that might be possible for you? So really working
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Speaker 3: with our kids to decide what it is, you know,
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Speaker 3: is it just their favorite piece of cheese on cracker
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Speaker 3: or something that's quite small, quite energy dents that they're
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Speaker 3: going to be able to eat really quickly. That might
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Speaker 3: be just that that thing that gets them through. The
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Speaker 3: other thing I want to mention is that sometimes school
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Speaker 3: eating at school might be the smallest amount of eating
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Speaker 3: that your child does during the day, and it may
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Speaker 3: be that we need to help them by supplementing breakfast
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Speaker 3: and supplementing afternoon tea and dinner and maybe supper to
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Speaker 3: make up for that. So just because a child isn't
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Speaker 3: eating as much as we would like them to be
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Speaker 3: eating during the day doesn't mean that we can't get
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Speaker 3: them to meet their needs across the whole day. Where
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Speaker 3: teachers can be helpful I think is establish some rules
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Speaker 3: that we don't throw food away, that if there's anything
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Speaker 3: that's uneaten in your lunch box, it's best to take
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Speaker 3: that home with you because then you as parents have
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Speaker 3: a better idea of what's actually being eaten and what's not.
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Speaker 3: And some of the dialogue that might happen is around Okay,
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Speaker 3: so I can see that there's a lot coming back.
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Speaker 3: What's that about, you know? Is it about the fact
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Speaker 3: that I just wanted to go and play, Or is
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Speaker 3: it that I hate everything that's in here, because that
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Speaker 3: then both of those things require a different lot of
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Speaker 3: problem solving.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, as a.
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Speaker 3: Parent, and then from the teacher's perspective, you know, there
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Speaker 3: may be some ways that they can help the children
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Speaker 3: be as settled as they can possibly be.
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Speaker 1: In that ten minutes.
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Speaker 2: I'd love to see the conversation in a different direction. Now,
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Speaker 2: obviously you had that webinar with your community, and you
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Speaker 2: were talking about the challenge of school lunchboxes. How do
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Speaker 2: we put lunchboxes together that are nutritious and that the
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Speaker 2: kids will eat and that won't go bad in the
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Speaker 2: hot sun at this time of the year. I know
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Speaker 2: that whenever I look at news articles about the average
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Speaker 2: school student lunchbox, the articles are usually highly critical in saying,
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Speaker 2: these things are full of sugar. It's white bread, it's
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Speaker 2: jam or veggie, mito, peanut butter or something else, it's
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Speaker 2: full of sugar. There's a popper which is full of sugar.
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Speaker 2: There's a couple of snacks which are full of sugar.
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Speaker 2: And essentially everything that I've ever read about school lunchboxes
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Speaker 2: seems to indicate that all of our typical, traditional, standard,
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Speaker 2: quick and easy lunch options tend to be less than
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Speaker 2: ideal for our kids. What do you recommend parents?
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Speaker 3: Does I really find a dialogue around like sugar. That
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Speaker 3: particularly the things that you mentioned quite problematic as a
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Speaker 3: dietitian because you know, some of the things you mentioned,
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Speaker 3: like white bread, for example, fruit, those foods provide an
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Speaker 3: amazing amount of nutrients. So, for example, if you've got
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Speaker 3: a child who really at the moment, they're staple for
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Speaker 3: bread is white bread. You know they don't like wholemeal bread,
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Speaker 3: school is not the time really to be stretching our kids.
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Speaker 2: I love that you said that. I love that you
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Speaker 2: said that because, as you said at the beginning of
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Speaker 2: the conversation, it's a different situation like we've got. We've
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Speaker 2: got a completely different context. There's limited or little or
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Speaker 2: of any adult supervision, and the kids have got so
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Speaker 2: many other distractions and so much else going on. School's
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Speaker 2: not the place where they're going to experiment with food, right.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, And look, they might you might have a super
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Speaker 3: experimental kid.
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Speaker 1: And you're probably not listening to this podcast if.
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Speaker 3: You because you know you don't have any problems then,
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Speaker 3: but you know, when we're thinking about what are going
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Speaker 3: to be foods that fill our kids up, that get
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Speaker 3: them through. We do need to rely on foods that
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Speaker 3: are familiar to them. Okay, so you know that some
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Speaker 3: of the foods that are demonized in a lot of media,
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Speaker 3: particularly where lunch boxes are concerned, I would think as
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Speaker 3: a dietitian, are perfectly acceptable.
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Speaker 1: So sandwiches with white bread, fruit. What else did you.
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Speaker 2: Mention justin oh I mentioned a few of the school
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Speaker 2: snacks and the popper, the pure apple juice popper, juice, a.
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Speaker 3: Juice popper, those foods.
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Speaker 1: You know, kids actually require a lot of carbohydrate.
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Speaker 3: I think that this is what we forget as parents
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Speaker 3: and people who have a very limited view of nutrition
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Speaker 3: in the sense that everything has to be healthy. You know,
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Speaker 3: that's a topic for another podcast. But you know, really,
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Speaker 3: if we can put food into our kids lunchboxes that
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Speaker 3: are familiar, look good, smell good, tastes good to them,
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Speaker 3: are quick to eat, they're going to be foods that
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Speaker 3: they're more likely to eat when it comes to keeping
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Speaker 3: food safe. In terms of food safety, there's real value
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Speaker 3: in supporting our kids to understand if you've got a
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Speaker 3: ham sandwich or something that is going to go off,
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Speaker 3: maybe you've got an egg in there, so you know,
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Speaker 3: protein food or whatever, anything that's kind of wet, you know,
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Speaker 3: is likely to you know, not be great, or maybe
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Speaker 3: yogurt or some cheese, that those foods might be better
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Speaker 3: eaten at the first break rather than the second break.
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Speaker 1: And that's a really good skill for kids to learn.
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Speaker 3: So, although we don't really want to be saying, well,
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Speaker 3: you must eat this food first because it's the healthy one,
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Speaker 3: you know, I would take the view that anything that
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Speaker 3: you put in your child's lunch box, let them eat
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Speaker 3: it in whatever order they want to. If you weren't
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Speaker 3: happy for them to have it, it wouldn't go in the
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Speaker 3: lunch box in the first place.
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Speaker 1: That's okay to do.
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Speaker 3: And even you know, training your kid to go pick
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Speaker 3: the bit, that's not going to be really you know,
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Speaker 3: get the sun on it. You know, we want our
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Speaker 3: kids to obviously have a lunch that they're gonna want
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Speaker 3: to eat when they come to second break.
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Speaker 2: So, deb As, I listened to what you're saying here,
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Speaker 2: and our time's pretty well up, So we need to
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Speaker 2: wrap this. If I was to say what I'm hearing
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Speaker 2: you essentially say is kids can be a little bit
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Speaker 2: tricky around food at school because of the environment, because
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Speaker 2: of the stimulus, because there's so much going on, and
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Speaker 2: because there's a lack of supervision in terms of the
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Speaker 2: actual foods that they eat. I'm hearing you sound extremely
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Speaker 2: practical and pragmatic, and what I'm basically hearing you say is,
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Speaker 2: on average, don't sweat the small stuff. Just make sure
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Speaker 2: that they're eating. And I've jotted down a few things
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Speaker 2: that you said as we were talking. You said, sandwiches, cheese, yogurt, fruit, salad, snacks.
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Speaker 2: The popper is fine as well. I've thrown raps in
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Speaker 2: as well, because what kid doesn't like wraps. It sounds
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Speaker 2: as if we might be making a big deal about
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Speaker 2: school lunches than we need.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and even you know, some throw some crunchy foods
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Speaker 3: in there. You know, even if it is a packet
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Speaker 3: crunchy food, if it's a carbohydrate based snack, those foods
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Speaker 3: Actually there's a sensory feedback that we get from eating
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Speaker 3: crunchy foods. So crunchy foods, particularly towards the end of
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Speaker 3: the day when kids are flagging, can really help wake
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Speaker 3: them up, like physically wake them up.
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Speaker 2: What's an example of the crunchy food. Are you talking
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Speaker 2: like a violet crumble crunch?
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Speaker 3: Well, it could be, although you know, you know, many
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Speaker 3: people might not feel like they want to put that.
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Speaker 1: Sure, maybe you want to save that for home.
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Speaker 3: But you know, any kind of packet, you know, cracker
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Speaker 3: or something something that your kid enjoys. You know, there's
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Speaker 3: so many of those kinds of things out there. Obviously,
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Speaker 3: fruit and veggies provide crunch, but if your kid isn't
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Speaker 3: a good food and veggie eater, it is okay to
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Speaker 3: put some of these other foods in there. And we
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Speaker 3: don't may not necessarily want to be totally filling the lunch.
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Speaker 1: Box with those foods if we can help it.
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Speaker 3: But I'm speaking really honestly and openly and compassionately to
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Speaker 3: a lot of the families that I work with where
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Speaker 3: kids have a really limited food range. So work within
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Speaker 3: your child's food range. If you can't put every food
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Speaker 3: group in.
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Speaker 1: There, do the best you can.
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Speaker 3: And if your child's lunchbox is looking pretty bland and
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Speaker 3: pretty base, communicate that with your teacher and explain why,
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Speaker 3: because I know that you're probably doing the very best
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Speaker 3: you can to work at expanding food range in other
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Speaker 3: environments at home, at school.
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Speaker 1: We just need to get them fed.
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Speaker 2: I like that kids just actually need to be fed
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Speaker 2: because they'll be better learners. They'll be better kids if
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Speaker 2: they've got food in their belly. Deb Blakely is the founder, director,
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Speaker 2: and lead, a credited practicing dietitian of Kids Dig Food.
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Speaker 2: You can find out more at kidsdigfood dot com, dot
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Speaker 2: you and the webinar that you shared with your community.
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Speaker 2: I presume that's online. Can we have people who want
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Speaker 2: to hear more. They can visit your website, kids digfood
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Speaker 2: dot com dot you defined the webinar.
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely so.
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Speaker 3: On our resources page, there's a link to our online
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Speaker 3: platform and the webinar or a recording of the webinar
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Speaker 3: will be there, along with some other things.
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Speaker 2: Perfect really appreciate the conversation. I have a number of
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Speaker 2: other questions that I want to ask you as a
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Speaker 2: result of our chat today. We'll have to get you
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Speaker 2: back on the podcast. Have a great day, and thanks
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Speaker 2: so much for your time.
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Speaker 1: Thanks Justin.
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Speaker 2: That's Deb Blakely, a credited practicing dietitian and the founder
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Speaker 2: of Kids Dig Food. The Happy Family's podcast is produced
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Speaker 2: by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our
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Speaker 2: executive producer. For more information, check out Deb's website or
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Speaker 2: visit happy families dot com. Today, you