Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / Lost arm to tiger, Tiger King co-worker

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Lost arm to tiger, Tiger King co-worker · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

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  Speaker 1: for You runs until May fifteen. Serious XM thank you
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: for letting our listeners listen for free and for being
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: our partner. Joe Exotic the Tiger King the Netflix special
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: was just a show build as a documentary, but according
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: to the people that lived through the reign of Joe Exotic,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: it was far from the entire story. We go behind
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: the scenes and speak to people that worked there with
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: Joe Exotic at the unlicensed zoo that can describe the
• 1:55
  Speaker 1: abuse to so many animals, some employee's estimating one hundred
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: animals killed and buried there on the premises of Joe Exotic.
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  Speaker 1: So what is the truth? Right now, a very special
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  Speaker 1: guest Kelsey Sath Saffre who was with Joe Exotic for
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: years and even lost his arm to a tiger. I'm
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories, Special investigation of the
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: Tiger King. Crime Stories with Nancy Greece joining me right
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: now is a very special guest, Kelsey Sath Saffree. Kelsey,
• 2:49
  Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. It's a pleasure. Thank
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: you for having me. Kelsey. I've done a lot of
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: studying on you, and I understand you were in the U. S. Army.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, act you handled explosives. Am
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: I correct, every soldier in the army does that, but yes,
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  Speaker 1: ma'am you are. It's hard for me to imagine how you,
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: with your military background ended up working with Joe Exotic
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  Speaker 1: and basically an unlicensed zoo. How did that happen. I
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: got out of the army in twenty ten in Fort Seale, Oklahoma,
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  Speaker 1: and it was a passion of mine since I was
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: a kid. So the only thing I was focused on
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: was getting my hands on a tiger, and Joe was
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: just the first one in the Google search. You know,
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  Speaker 1: that's amazing to me, Staff, because when I was little,
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: I dreamed of riding books and riding horses. I never
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: dreamed of holding a baby tiger cub. That's that's so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: intriguing to me that you grew up with that desire.
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: Where did you first lay eyes on Joe Exotic? It
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: was at it was at his you know, we had
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: emailed back and forth after I had found him and
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: h and found a way to contact him, just about
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: me coming out and just kind of checking it out
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: since I had free time, you know, and then, of course,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: maybe I don't know, a couple of weeks after our
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: initial contact is when I met him in person. And
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, You're never prepared for that. What
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: do you mean by that? Because I mean, I know
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: you're seeing the Netflix docu drama docuseries. Is that what
• 4:29
  Speaker 1: he's really like? Is that what you encountered the first
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: time you met him. Oh, yes, that's Joe. Yeah, well,
• 4:38
  Speaker 1: I guess there's no putting perfume on a pig stath.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: So when you first met up with him, how did
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: that meeting end up in you working with him? You know, Um,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: there was not much conversation between Joe and I. We've
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: already talked about what I wanted out of that experience
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  Speaker 1: or just you know, being at that park. So once
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: we met, and you know, he got me to the animals.
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  Speaker 1: I mean, I didn't see anything else, you know, Joe
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: didn't matter. I was six inches from a tiger, So
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  Speaker 1: that's why I never left. Once you started working there,
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: what were your duties? Initially? It was just I was all.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: I was placed on a crew, you know, so it
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: had a crew leader, and I honestly picked up tiger
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: poop and handled raw meat to feed these cats for
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  Speaker 1: at least the first year, you know. And I loved
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: every sex shoveling poop and feeding raw meat. You know.
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: I'm glad you mentioned that about the raw meat, because
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know how this could have been spliced in
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: in some misleading way. I believe the part in the
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  Speaker 1: Netflix series where the animals were not getting enough food.
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: I'll circle back to that. So you start off shoveling poop,
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: beating the animals. Was working behind the scenes different than
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: you thought it would be. I don't know if I
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: thought as far as the work part of it. I
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: just wanted the experience of being able to interact with them.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: You know, I was born and raised in Hawaii, so
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  Speaker 1: I don't I don't know anything as far as being
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: around these animals and anything that entails you know, that experience. Um,
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: So I was learning everything firsthand. Nothing everything was new,
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: and nothing, you know, felt out of place or or incorrect.
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: I didn't know any better. So when you and I
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: taught before, you mentioned that you knew tigers were being killed,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: right shot? Right? Did Joe Exotic himself shoot the tigers
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  Speaker 1: that had been in cages? Right? Yes? Every time? Yea.
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: Is it true that one of your your jobs was
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to get the animals, lure them, feed them, give them
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  Speaker 1: tricks over to the side of the cage. Yeah, you know,
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  Speaker 1: it wasn't a job necessarily, it was. It was just
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  Speaker 1: a fact. I mean, these animals trusted us. We were
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: there everything. We were their food, we were their love,
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  Speaker 1: We were their compassion, their camaraderie. We were there everything,
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  Speaker 1: you know, So yes, for sure, if we wanted he
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: wanted that tiger up at the side of the cage,
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  Speaker 1: it was us that brought him there. For sure. You
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: told me that it's just like other people's pets, our
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: dog and cat. The moment I wake up, they run
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: to the door and walk with me from the bedroom
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  Speaker 1: to the kitchen. They almost no extinctively when you're coming.
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  Speaker 1: How would the animals react when they knew you, saff
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: were coming? I mean the same, you know. And don't
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: get me wrong, there were animals on part that didn't
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: like me, that that liked others more than me before
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: the ones that I had relationships with and you know,
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  Speaker 1: just created this bond. I mean it was just like
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  Speaker 1: your dog or cat at home. You know, you you
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: enter into their presence and they're ecstatic about it. You know.
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  Speaker 1: That's that's that unconditional love, you know. So it was good.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: Is it true that part of your duties getting the animals,
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: the tigers over to the side of the cage included
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  Speaker 1: when Joe Exotic shot them, You know, that's that's true.
• 8:40
  Speaker 1: I mean he could never get them to the side
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  Speaker 1: of the cage, no matter how hard he tried. So um, yeah,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: it's true that that was asked of the employees. I
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: never did it. You know. I was a part of
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: the problem as far as being their own part when
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: I knew it was going on, but I never I
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  Speaker 1: never called anyone over to its death. No, there's no
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: way that would haunt me the rest of my life
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: if I had called the animal over knowing it was
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: going to be shot. What would happen when Exotic was
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: going to shoot the animals as far as like on
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  Speaker 1: park or would the animals? Yeah, I mean, how would
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  Speaker 1: he go about shooting them? I mean it may be
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  Speaker 1: normal for everybody else, but for me to shoot a
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  Speaker 1: tiger that's been sitting in a cage, just shot it
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  Speaker 1: in the head dead, I think that's horrible and I
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  Speaker 1: don't understand how would that get set up? Wouldn't everybody
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  Speaker 1: know what was happening. When you go up to a
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  Speaker 1: tiger with a gun, it's pretty clear something bad's going
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  Speaker 1: to happen, right, Yeah. No, I'm absolutely sure that everyone
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  Speaker 1: knew what was going on, including myself, And you know,
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  Speaker 1: at that point, it's just a look away type of situation.
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  Speaker 1: There isn't much that you can do to stop Joe
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  Speaker 1: on his own property from doing what he wanted to do.
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  Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm sure everyone one on park knew what
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: was happening. There's just not much you can do about it.
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  Speaker 1: Why would he do it? Staff? Why would he gun
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  Speaker 1: down innocent animals that have been sitting in cages. They
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: weren't about to jump on him or bude him or
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  Speaker 1: hurt anybody. Why? Yeah, yeah, it's it's greed. Um, It's
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  Speaker 1: all greed. You know. It was always about the biggest
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  Speaker 1: or the baddest with Joe, anything that can bring him
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  Speaker 1: to the you know, to the limelight, be the star
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  Speaker 1: of the show. Um. And and that's so sad to
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: say out loud, but I know it's true. You know
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  Speaker 1: that he was an opportunist. If he had an opportunity
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  Speaker 1: to put a tiger in a cage that was more
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  Speaker 1: beneficial to him, then he will make that cage empty.
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: You know, when you say he will make the cage empty,
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: let's just be honest and call it what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Joe,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: Joe definitely, yeah, he did, you know, And it happened
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  Speaker 1: since before I was there, and it continued to happen
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: throughout the time I was there, and once I realized
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  Speaker 1: that I was more a part of the problem than
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  Speaker 1: a part of the solution, I left. So how do
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: you why do you think it went on after after
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  Speaker 1: you left? You know, I think, Joe, there's nothing that's
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: going to change Joe. Joe is the way that he is,
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: and and there's nothing that's going to change him. And
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: I know that there was a time, especially that I
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: witnessed UM, that he had compassion for animals. You know,
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  Speaker 1: That's that's why I was so stuck on that place.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: It just seemed like exactly where I needed to be
• 11:36
  Speaker 1: at that time in my life as well. UM. And
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: once I realized that wasn't the case, it took me
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: a while. Um, I was so consumed in what I
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: was doing, and I loved every second of what I
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: was doing that you know, it took me a while,
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: but I came around to it. And now looking back
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: on it, it's just a it's a travesty, you know.
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: And I was have you ever heard about how battered
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: women stay in the home in the family to take
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: because they want to protect the children. I think a
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: lot of exotic staff stayed there because they loved the
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: animals and wanted to take care of them. What can
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: you tell me about how Exotic would act after he
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: shot down a tiger or another animal. Yeah, it never
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: faced him, It never faced him. He just it was
• 12:30
  Speaker 1: something he did and then went on with his day.
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: If you didn't hear the gun shoulder, if you didn't
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: see the gun, you would have never knew what happened
• 12:38
  Speaker 1: until you realize the tiger's missing, and the other staffers
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: would just act like that was okay, no, no m
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: But like I said, you know, there wasn't much this
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: you could do. There's no argument, Joe. You know, a
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: lot of people left, a lot of people left a
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: lot of people spoke up, but again they were no
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: longer a part of the park. I feel like, um,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: the reason that I stayed, you know, was definitely because
• 13:05
  Speaker 1: I always felt the next time I can do better,
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: I can do more. Ignorance in Idiocracy Crime Stories with
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, what would happened to the corpses of the
• 13:30
  Speaker 1: animals that he shot? He had a contract um with
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: a Skulls Unlimited. It's a it's it's just a skeleton museum,
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: and that's where most of the skulls went. Have you
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: ever heard the phrase bone collector? Yeah, of course, what
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: is it? A bone collector? Just someone who's in it
• 13:50
  Speaker 1: truck that he would put the skeletons on. And some
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: of the staff nicknamed it the bone collector, right right,
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  Speaker 1: it was. It was the guy who came and picked
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: up the bodies. Actually, we never held the tigers long
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: enough for them to be skeletons. Um. That was actually
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: why they were being sent to the museum. UM, so
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: they can break it down and and you know, get
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: them to these properly clean skeletons. Um. And of course
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: Joe had access to all these exotic animals that most don't,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: so they were there. Um, as far as I know,
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: they were the stons. I really don't know if he
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: sold them. I can only imagine there was some kind
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: of financial benefit. Joe doesn't do anything without, um, some
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: kind of financial gain from it, you know. So, Seth,
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: I want to talk to you about something, and I
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: don't mean to bring up more bad memories, but what
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: happened to your arm? What exactly happened? Twenty thirteen? I
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: was just doing chores typical Saturday morning, you know, um,
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: and I stuck my hand into a full grown males
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: tigers ketchpen um to release him from the ketchpen and
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: into his main enclosure. And he grabbed a hold of
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: my hand and shredded, shredded my arm up with his claws.
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: So it was about fifteen to twenty seconds of of
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: him showing me. You know, he's a tiger. Why did
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: he do that after all the times you had done
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: the very same thing, right? You know? UM, I can
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: only imagine. I obviously don't know the exact answer to that,
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: but I can only imagine it was it was October,
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: early October. UM. I had a thick coat on, I
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: had gloves on. UM. You know, we give these animals
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: stuffed animals all the time, we give them toys for enrichment.
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I can only imagine he thought it was a toy.
• 15:36
  Speaker 1: I couldn't be sure. I have worked with that animal before,
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: and I have worked directly with that animal after UM,
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: he was you know, That's what I was trying to do,
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: is get him back into his main enclosure. Um. But
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: we don't really make it a habit for certain animals
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: to to feed through the cage. Um for that reason exactly,
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: you know, UM, you know, exotic animals. You just there
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: are click serious half. I am convinced from that A
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: lot of I think I'm not convinced of But I
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: could tell that the animals were hungry, that they were
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: not getting enough food, especially one scene when they said
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: there were not enough chickens to go around. How often
• 16:18
  Speaker 1: did the animals go hungry? Tell me the truth? Right, yeah, no, Um,
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: there was There was not really a time where they
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: were starving. You know, we fed them every single day. Um,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: and in the wild, you know they're eating you know,
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: one hundred pounds of meat every two weeks. But it's
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: what they're used to, is the twenty pounds of meat
• 16:38
  Speaker 1: every single day. So yeah, you don't. You don't give
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: a four hundred pound tiger they're twenty pounds of meat
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: that day. They're they're not gonna be happy about it.
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: But no, not a single animal was starving on that park,
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: you know. Um, well, there were times they were starving
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: because they were still alive. But right, I'm convinced they
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: were not being bad enough. Right, Why why wasn't there
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: enough food to go around? Resources? Um, you know, we
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: did have a contract with certain stores that we would
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: get there off the shelf meat. Um. And because of
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: Joe and and and Joe's actions, you know, we lost
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: a lot of those contracts. So once that went away,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: now we're paying out a pocket. It becomes nearly impossible,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: you know. Um. And that's the reason. What do you mean,
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: because's actions that you lost food for the tigers because
• 17:32
  Speaker 1: of Joe's actions? What do you mean? Yeah? You know, um,
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: he just he made some statements and uh. And then
• 17:38
  Speaker 1: obviously you know, the whole rumor of him using the
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: meat that was donated um for financial gain in his restaurants.
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: That was it. That's all they needed. And they pulled
• 17:50
  Speaker 1: that contract quicker than you could say it. So, okay,
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, using the donated meat for restaurants what? Yeah, Yeah,
• 17:59
  Speaker 1: he opened two restaurants. He opened a pizza restaurant and
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: a bar down the road, a bar and grill down
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: the road from the park. The pizza restaurant was on
• 18:07
  Speaker 1: the park property. And you know, the first the first
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: week of any of these establishments being opened, it was yeah,
• 18:15
  Speaker 1: he's using the meat off of the meat truck, you know,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: And is it donated meat? Yeah? It was a bad deal,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: you know, and the only the only losers was the animals.
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: It donated meat for the tigers got used at the restaurants. Yeah,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: that was the rumor. Yeah, okay, you know, I know
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: you have told me that you felt guilty for the
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: role that you played with the animals with them getting
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: killed or not getting enough to eat. You didn't kill
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: any animal and you did not starve any animal. But
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: how did that make you feel being in part of
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: seeing animals killed at point blank range? In fact, I
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: believe he told me that we're tranquilized and then shot dead.
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: Were just depended on the day. Um, It's it's weird
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: to say, but you know, Joe wouldn't waste tranquilizer if
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: he's just gonna end their life. So I highly doubt
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: he is tranquilizers honestly, did just shoot him point blank? Yeah? Yeah,
• 19:19
  Speaker 1: you know, a monster is a relative term, and uh,
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: and Joe fits the bill, you know. Um, I've seen
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: him do a lot of good and I know he's
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: done a lot of bad. And that's really where I'm
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: at with the whole thing, is is aside from the
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: whole Joe you know association. I know that I was
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: the one there with those animals and he kills me,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: he kills me, but I can only move on staff.
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: I read and I don't know if this is true,
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: but I want you to tell me where Exotic would
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: dark gun a mommy up to five times to make
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: the mommy go to sleep so he could take the
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: baby out of her arms and sell it as young
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: as ten days two weeks old while the baby's still nursing,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: because the mom wouldn't give away the baby or let
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: him take the baby, said a dark gunner. Yeah, yeah
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: he would. Um, Yeah, Joe, Joe wanted those babies. I mean,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: he bread those tigers for a reason. He wanted those
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: babies away from their mom. And if you can't imagine
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: anyone trying to take your babies away from you and
• 20:32
  Speaker 1: how you would react, imagine that in a four hundred
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: pound tiger. Yeah. Yeah, it was a bad deal of
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: my cold dead body. That's what she said too, you know,
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: that's that's what these tigers said to Um. I've never
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: seen one. I've never seen one just walk away. I've
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: never you know, I've seen some kind of ignore their babies.
• 20:53
  Speaker 1: But you try to take those babies from them, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: they'll come after you. So yeah, it was always a
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: bad deal. What would happen? How how would that happen?
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: You know, he, like I said, he bred them um
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: for a reason. So we knew the cages that were breeding,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: We knew how long gestation was, we knew exactly we
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: could time it to the week when those babies were
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: going to be there. Um. And for the most part,
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: you know, he used the same breeding pair. So uh,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: it's just a continuous vicious cycle of cubs and and
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: breeding and cubs and breeding and um. It just gets
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: ridiculous with Joe. But you know, Joe, Joe was it
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: was greed in the end, you know, for me it
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: was it was a lot of greed. And so would
• 21:40
  Speaker 1: the daff What would the mom do when she'd wake
• 21:43
  Speaker 1: up and the babies be gone? Yeah, you know he
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: never used tranquilizers. Um. He darted them, just just empty darts.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: But it's still it's still the same concept. You're you're
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: just picking at her, You're just picking at her to
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: push her out of there. Um. And eventually she just
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: cows cowers to her catchpin, you know. Um. And that
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: was the routine. Every time second she's in her catchpin,
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: you lock her in there. You have full access to
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: those clubs without that mom having any access to you.
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: And every time it happened, every time, I can't imagine
• 22:16
  Speaker 1: that the mother tiger could would would not react what
• 22:21
  Speaker 1: she got free. No, she reacts, she reacts. You know,
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: it's not it's it never happened in two minutes. There's
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: there's lots of videos out there where these these mothers
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: or they come after us, you know. Um, if it
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: wasn't for that cage, I mean, yeah, there wouldn't be
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: a story to tell. They fight with everything they have.
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: But um, I gotta tell you something that's making me
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: feel sick to my stomach to think that you dart
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: the mother over and over and in the minute you
• 22:50
  Speaker 1: could take the baby take it. Yeah, and it would
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: happen over and over and over to the same mother tiger.
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah for the most part. Yeah, we we had the
• 22:59
  Speaker 1: same breedge pairs. When they stopped breeding, Joe gets another
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: breeding pair. So did it ever concern him that that
• 23:06
  Speaker 1: is against the law to sell those baby tigers? I
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: think you know he was so Joe was so focused
• 23:14
  Speaker 1: on what he wanted and what he needed. Obviously, um
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: as we can tell where he sits right now. I
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: don't think he felt the law applied to him. Crime
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace Sath. Let me ask you about
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: Carol Basket. Everybody is interested in Carol Basket, and I
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: get it. I know he would say he wanted her
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: head in a jar. I mean, he's document is saying
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: that on one of his YouTube shows, wanting her head
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: cut off, wanting her shot off her bike trail while
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: she's out all by herself on a bile. Was that
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: just for show? Or do you believe he really wanted
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: Basking dead? Oh? I mean, Joe was a talker for sure,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: but there's no doubt in my mind that you know,
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: he thought life would be better off without her, no
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: doubt in my mind. No, why do you say that?
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: What did you observe that makes you say that? Every
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: day started with, you know, Carol, every day continued with Carol,
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: and every day ended with Carol. Everything that came up
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: was Carol's fault. You know, every issue that arises, whether
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: it had to do with his personal life or to
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: do with the park, you know, it was Carol's fault.
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: And after a while you just start to tune it out.
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: I mean, you have to to get anything done do
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: you believe he would have killed her with his own hands? No, no,
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Joe's no, Joe does not have that in him. I know,
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: I know this. I know this man. I worked with
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: him for almost ten years. What do you mean he
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: doesn't have it in him? That's not what a jury said. No,
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure that the jury is very convinced,
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: just just like I am, that he wanted or dead.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: But I know, man to man, he doesn't have it
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: in him to do it himself. You don't think he
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: had the guts to do it himself. Absolutely not. No,
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: I believe Oh yeah, oh yeah, that's exactly what it is.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: I didn't know. I can say that, you can say
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: the truth. Yeah, he definitely didn't have the balls to
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: do it himself. But would he hire somebody to do it?
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: That sounds more of Joe's alley for sure. You know.
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: I mean anything that he can get anyone else to do. Right,
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: According to those audio tapes, he said, I just gotta
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: go sell a bunch of tigers. His words, not mine.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, like I said, anything Joe can can get
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: anyone else to do, that's that's what he's gonna do.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: I've done so much think happened with that fire. Step
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: what do you think happened for that fire? Yeah, the fire,
• 26:03
  Speaker 1: I mean it was quite the coinkie thing. The coincidence.
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: He was out of town one night for I think
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: a wedding or a funeral, and that night one of
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: the structurers there that had all that video in it
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: of his reality show all went up in smoke. And
• 26:21
  Speaker 1: I believe there were alligators in there too. There was
• 26:24
  Speaker 1: there was There was eleven animals in that building, in
• 26:27
  Speaker 1: the same building. Um. What I think of it is
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: is I can I can just hope that the man
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: I stood next to for almost ten years didn't put
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: animals lives, you know, in a situation where they ended
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: for his benefit. Um, But I guess I guess that's
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: just that's what he does. Well, who else do you
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: think could have done it? Who wanted who would have
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: done it? Who would have benefit? No one, I mean
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: no one. That was that was footage of everything for years, um,
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: everything on that part. So if there was anyone who
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: would have benefited from it, it's him. And if there
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: was anyone who would have been destroyed by it, it's him.
• 27:10
  Speaker 1: So when you had your arm ripped off, off by
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: the tiger. I wanted to ask you this, What was
• 27:20
  Speaker 1: exotics response to that? How did he act when you
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: were hurt so badly? Yeah? In front of me? Um,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: you know he was. He was pretty decent. I mean,
• 27:31
  Speaker 1: it was just hanging there, we'll get your help, you know. UM.
• 27:34
  Speaker 1: And my reaction was just I just knew I needed
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: to stay calm so that everyone else didn't panic, you know.
• 27:41
  Speaker 1: But of course I didn't see anything he did outside
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: of my view. But honestly, I I didn't expect anything different.
• 27:50
  Speaker 1: You know, Joe was always you know, it's all about Joe.
• 27:54
  Speaker 1: So what do you mean you didn't expect anything different?
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: What is your understanding? What have you learned? Was his reaction? Yeah?
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: You know, we all have different priorities. I was. I
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: was kind of focused on um now bleeding out and uh.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: And and you know the customers and the employees that
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: had to visually see what I had just been through, UM,
• 28:17
  Speaker 1: their their welfare and well being. UM. And then of
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: course you know the tiger, who seemed pretty pleased with himself. UM.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: But you know, his his priority at the time was
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: it was financial, you know, recovery, UM and wardrobe. So
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: I guess we're different. What what now, financial recovery and wardrobe?
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: For sure, it was his priorities. What do you mean
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: by financial recovery and wardrobe? That's what he was worried
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: about after you got your arm bitten off, That's that's
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: what he was worried about. Yes, um, you know, I
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: knew it was going to take a toll on the park.
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: I mean, obviously everyone had to go home that day.
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: So whatever he had made in sale was that day
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: up until that point. At ten am in the morning, Um,
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: he had to return and everyone left. They shut that
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: park down for at least the day. Um. And and
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: and I know that's what he meant by that. On
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: top of the fact that it was it was going
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to be a story. It was going to be out
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: there now everyone knew about this incident. Um And I
• 29:19
  Speaker 1: know that he also implied that that was going to
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: affect his you know, financial gain as well. So he
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: told you that he did not He did not tell
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: me that. Um. I learned that as a viewer. So
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: h oh, I see, I see. Did he take care
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: of you financially after you lost your arm? No? No,
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: I didn't ask him to. I didn't I didn't care
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: for the money I wanted back on part. I wanted
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: to just keep doing you know what I have sacrificed
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: so much for. Um. I wanted that and it was
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: really just, um, is it's sort of a verification for
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: me that this is this is what I want, you know.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: So that's what I was focused on. There was no
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: financial compensation from Joe. No, and you never thought to
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: sue or anything like that because you wanted to stay
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: working there. Not really, um, just because I wanted to
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: stay working there. But I didn't ever look at finance
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: or suing or compensation as as anything that I wanted
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to pursue, just because it took away from being able
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: to work, you know, being able to interact with these animals.
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: And not to say that Joe's the only place I
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: could have done that at, but it was the place
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: that I was doing it at, you know, and I
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: was doing at I was doing it there for almost
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: three years up until that point. So Yeah, when you
• 30:45
  Speaker 1: watch the Netflix documentary, right, was that real? Did it
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: show the truth or a slice of the truth or
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: what was that? Yeah? No, Um, as far as the
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: lives of the people, yes, Um, there was a lot
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of sense of you know, they they sensationalized a lot
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: of things. As far as um housing. You know that
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: there was housing provided for the employees. It wasn't trashed housing, um,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: but the employees trashed it. I mean, everyone's an adult
• 31:13
  Speaker 1: and they lived the way they want. So yeah, it
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: was it was crazy to see it. Um. Kind of
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: highlighted the worst of the worst, you know. Um. But
• 31:23
  Speaker 1: as far as the people, it was spot on. That's
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: that's exactly who they are. When you heard the jury
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: verdict that exotic was found guilty, do you think they
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: got it right or wrong? Yeah? No, I mean it
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: it was obviously right. Um as far as you know,
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: the wildlife um uh convictions, and then there was no
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: going around the murder for hire. You know, I knew
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: that that was gonna um, it was gonna drop on
• 31:52
  Speaker 1: his head. Um. But you know, I've known Joe since
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: two thousand and ten, and even before two thousand and ten,
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: Joe had an issue with Carol um. And he's been
• 31:59
  Speaker 1: talking the way he's talked, you know, on that documentary
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: about Carol since I met him, and probably before that. UM,
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: So I definitely know he was encouraged. You know, he's
• 32:10
  Speaker 1: got to have been pushed into going this far. Um.
• 32:13
  Speaker 1: It was like the straw that broke the camel's back,
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: you know. UM. So it's just unfortunately way he played out.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: But what am I doing now now? Yeah? Yeah, I UM.
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: Up until about two weeks ago, I was working just
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: a regular warehouse job here here in Redlands, California, UM,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: until they shut us down because of the covid UM. Yeah,
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to get back to life, you know.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: UM took a minute to find myself and get back
• 32:42
  Speaker 1: to life and move on the bills, don't you know.
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: Bills don't wait around for anybody either, just life. So
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: why did you leave Exotic? I genuinely was there for
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: a reason. I was there to to I mean, I
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: keep saying it, to fight the fight, um for for
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: me and my future, you know, whether it's people or
• 33:04
  Speaker 1: or not. UM. I wanted these animals to be a
• 33:07
  Speaker 1: part of that all the time. I wanted to interact
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: with them, and I wanted my kids to not only
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: see them in picture books or read about them like dinosaurs,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: you know, I want them to be able to touch, feel, see, um.
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: And And that was honestly why I stuck it out.
• 33:22
  Speaker 1: You know, for for the for the animals, I mean
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: for everything there. I left because I mean I didn't
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: see that being a progressively positive thing for the animals.
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: I mean, I invested so much of myself in that
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: park and in that experience. I invested, you know, blood, sweat, tears,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: my left hand. Um. And in the end, I realized
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: that I don't even know what's good or best for
• 33:50
  Speaker 1: these animals. I have no idea. Still till today, I
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: don't know. Um. And again, if I'm not a part
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: of the solution, I'm I'm straw that broke the camels back.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Why did you one day leave? Yeah, I had a
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: conversation with Joe after coming back from a road trip
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: and it was, unfortunately, the day that his husband killed himself.
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: So it was just a bad conversation during a bad
• 34:20
  Speaker 1: time about you know, bad things. So that's when I
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: decided to walk away and I never looked back. Now, Sath,
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: you know you can't just say that to me. You
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: may not ask you what are you talking about? A
• 34:31
  Speaker 1: bad conversation about bad things and you leave your dream job?
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: What bad things? I told him? I mean I basically
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: just kind of called him out on on the entire experience,
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: I mean ten years of my life. So where is
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: this going? What is our mission? What are we focusing on?
• 34:50
  Speaker 1: You know, is there anything that we're doing to change?
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: Are we going to go from quantity to quality? Are
• 34:56
  Speaker 1: we gonna change the fact that, you know, we don't
• 34:59
  Speaker 1: have enough staff members to cover the amount of work
• 35:02
  Speaker 1: that needs to be done. We don't have the resources
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: to provide. You know, what are we going to do
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: about this? Nothing? I got nothing. I couldn't do it. Well,
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: what did he say? I mean, I know the animals
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: were going hungry. I know that we're not enough workers. Right.
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: What about that road show? Mage? You confront him the
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: road the road trip that I took, it was a
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: personal trip for me, and I kind of just did
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: some reflecting as far as what am I doing with
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: my life? You know, is am I really making a difference?
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: Or am I just being selfish? Because I get to
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: love and hold on tigers every day? And the conclusion
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I came to was, I'm being absolutely selfish if I
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: don't at least speak up. You know, they can't speak
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: up for themselves. I gotta say something. If not, it's
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: just wasted time. You come back, You confront him about
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: what lack of food, lack of workers, it's everything, lack
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: of room. I don't know how to keep a tiger
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: in that cage when they want to be free. And
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: did he give any answer? Did he curse you out?
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: What happened? Oh? Yeah there was, there was some very
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: choice words, Nancy. Um, but for the most part, he
• 36:13
  Speaker 1: wasn't even focused on that. And again, like I said,
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: it was bad timing, but I had to get it out. Um,
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: he wasn't focused on it. He didn't hear me, he
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: didn't care. It was all about what he had just lost,
• 36:24
  Speaker 1: what he had just gone through. And that was you know,
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: that was the end of the conversation. I never looked
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: back crime stories with Nancy Grace. When you look back
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: on your time with Joe Exotic, what mental image, what
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: vivid men image stays in your mind of Joe Exotic? Yeah, desperate,
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: you know, I see it, just desperation every day. You know.
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: I used to think it was like motivation and a
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: driving force. You know. Um, Joe figured out, He'll always
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: figure it out, you know, And now I realize it's
• 37:14
  Speaker 1: it's it was always just reaching man, just constantly reaching
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: for things, just out of his reach, you know. Um U,
• 37:22
  Speaker 1: that's what I see. I have one last thing to
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: ask you. I read an account where Exotic would whip
• 37:29
  Speaker 1: the baby tigers to train them. Hm. And that was
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: from an eyewitness. Is that true? Yeah? It is? It is.
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: He believed in tools. Um. So yeah, he would always
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: have a whip on stage. Obviously. You guys know we
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: carried guns on park. Um. So yeah it is. It's
• 37:49
  Speaker 1: it's how he Um. It was his way of showing
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: us how to work with these these babies, you know.
• 37:55
  Speaker 1: And um, he did. He did it in front of people.
• 37:57
  Speaker 1: He was trying to teach them. Um. Thankfully I came
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: up with my own way. You know. I never used
• 38:02
  Speaker 1: a whip, not once, but even babies whip babies. He did,
• 38:08
  Speaker 1: he did, He used it. Um. And and don't get
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: me wrong, he wasn't whipping them. Um. It's you know,
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: it's a it's a horse whip. So that's why it's
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: called a whip. It's more of a of a touch
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: type of thing. Um. It's still unnecessary. I mean, you
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: genuinely don't need it. In my opinion, I've worked with
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: tigers without one. Um. So yeah, well, if there's nothing
• 38:26
  Speaker 1: wrong with it? Why didn't you do it? I just didn't.
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: I didn't need to. I honestly didn't need to. I mean,
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: these animals are still smart, man, they and they're giving
• 38:36
  Speaker 1: this to you. You know you're not making them do
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: you can't make I gotta disagree with yourself. I don't
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: think there's anything good about putting a whip on a
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: baby tiger. No, I'm glad. There's nothing good about it,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: right right, Yeah, there's nothing good about it. Um. I
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: Just like I said, you know, you can get things
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: done by just forming a bond with these animals. I mean,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: I think that was the biggest draw for me, is
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: that these animals were willing to work with me. They
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: were willing to be in my presence. That is amazing.
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: You know, you don't get that from humans humans. Do
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: you think other people are going to be charged? For instance,
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: if exotic was convicted of illegally selling endangered species, somebody
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: had to be buying them. The staff had to know
• 39:21
  Speaker 1: what was going on and enable it. Other people owning
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: working unlicensed zoos. Do you think they're going to be
• 39:28
  Speaker 1: more charges down the road. I mean, I'm sure if
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: they dig deep enough, if they're going to find a
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: lot more players in this. Yes, I mean it's all.
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: The entire animal industry is connected. Every single person is connected.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: There's not a person in America that doesn't have an
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: animal or a cat from one of these other zoos
• 39:49
  Speaker 1: or one of these other sanctuaries that there's not a person. So, yes,
• 39:54
  Speaker 1: what are your words, too Exotic today? What are your
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: words to him? Now? Yeah? You know, I don't. I
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: don't really have much to say to him. Um. I
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: wouldn't want to see him die in prison. Um, but
• 40:06
  Speaker 1: I wouldn't want anyone to die in prison. I knew
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Joe personally for ten years, and uh, and that's where
• 40:13
  Speaker 1: I leave our relationship. And you gotta every time you
• 40:16
  Speaker 1: look down at your left hand, you've got to remember
• 40:22
  Speaker 1: the conditions right at the zoo and the way the
• 40:29
  Speaker 1: animals were treated. I mean, that's a forever reminder of
• 40:33
  Speaker 1: what you went through and what the animals went through, right,
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: And it's also a forever reminder of what I sacrifice
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: for them. So works hand in hand. I guess is
• 40:45
  Speaker 1: it true that Joe Exotic gave you a handful of
• 40:50
  Speaker 1: documents to sign when you left the hospital. No, No,
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: that was definitely misconstrued. You know. Um, they asked me,
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: how do I know my hand was still fine functional,
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: and I said, because I was still able to write
• 41:02
  Speaker 1: my name. I wrote it just on a piece of
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: like hospital paper. I wrote my name out just to
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: prove that I was still able to use my hand
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: before they amputated it. So it was definitely misconstrued into
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: oh man, he made him sign things. No I didn't.
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: I didn't sign anything, you know, Okay, if you had
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: to give me your best estimate how many tigers or animals,
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: because I know they were more than tigers. Did Joe
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: exotic keel right over the period of ten years that
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: I was present, man a hundred easily, easily, And again
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: it's not all big cats. You know what else it was?
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: It was anything that he needed a cage for Nancy. Um,
• 41:49
  Speaker 1: if he needed a cage that a wolf was in,
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: that wolf had to go. If he needed a cage
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: that a raccoon was in, that raccoon had to go.
• 41:58
  Speaker 1: It was anything that Joe need the cage for what sath?
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: What need more animals? You know, for more animals that
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: he thought was going to be more beneficial to him
• 42:08
  Speaker 1: If he had four cages that had raccoons in it,
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: and he had an opportunity to get in to get
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: an animal in that he didn't have one park. Yet
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: three of those cages are going to have raccoons in
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: it and the other one's not. You know, it's as
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: simple as that. I mean, Joe Joe's not complicated one bit.
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: It was it was it was opportunity and selfish, you know,
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: it was greed. So he would kill them to make
• 42:32
  Speaker 1: more money. Not all the time, he would have always
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: killed them. Unfortunately, there was a lot of times where
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: he would just it. It was a raccoon, It let
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: it go. It just let it go. Yeah. So you
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: think over the time you were there, he Joe Exotic
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: killed about one hundred animals. Easy. What do you think
• 42:51
  Speaker 1: about the possibility of a presidential pardon for Joe Exotic? Right, Um,
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know. That's up to the president.
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: I guess well put you know, South, I wish you
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: nothing but good things, all good. Appreciate that. I appreciate that.
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: Thank you, the Tiger King. The investigation goes on