Latest / Ageless and Timeless Podcast® / Adam Perlman, internationally recognized expert in Integrative and Functional Medicine

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Adam Perlman, internationally recognized expert in Integrative and Functional Medicine · Ageless and Timeless Podcast®

0:10
Speaker 1: Good morning everyone. This is Michelle Hughes from Ageless and Timeless.
0:14
Speaker 1: Today I have doctor Adam Perlman as my guest, and
0:18
Speaker 1: I love the fact that I've been able to meet
0:20
Speaker 1: doctor Perlman or Adam. I'm going to call him if
0:24
Speaker 1: he doesn't mind, but I'm going to just say that.
0:29
Speaker 1: You know, very often I have guests on that I've
0:31
Speaker 1: never met, but i've you know, we talk on the phone.
0:34
Speaker 1: But with doctor Perlman, he because the company he's with,
0:38
Speaker 1: which is called Pendulum Therapeutics, is based in San Francisco,
0:43
Speaker 1: although he is resides in Jacksonville, Florida, but he comes
0:48
Speaker 1: here frequently, so we were able to actually meet in person.
0:52
Speaker 1: Had a lovely dinner and good morning or good afternoon
0:56
Speaker 1: for you, doctor Perlman or Adam, see you again, so
1:01
Speaker 1: happy to have you. Yeah, we had a really healthy
1:03
Speaker 1: dinner at although I have to admit I noticed that
1:07
Speaker 1: he can cheat a little bit, but that's okay. Look
1:09
Speaker 1: at look at how good he looks. And I know,
1:14
Speaker 1: but we both come from Massachusetts, from Boston area, and
1:18
Speaker 1: although you know, neither one of us is living there now,
1:21
Speaker 1: we both know that that's our base, our home. Routes
1:24
Speaker 1: and fortunately for both of us, we don't have Boston accents,
1:28
Speaker 1: right Adam.
1:29
Speaker 2: Only when I go to park my car at a party. Yeah,
1:32
Speaker 2: otherwise I.
1:34
Speaker 1: Always people have said to me every you know, I
1:36
Speaker 1: don't drink very much, but every once in a while,
1:38
Speaker 1: if I have a glass of wine or something, that's
1:40
Speaker 1: when it will come back. So I guess it's still
1:44
Speaker 1: in our DNA. But fortunately we've been away long enough.
1:49
Speaker 1: Even though you go back for your summers and I
1:52
Speaker 1: often go back for family, but at least we sound
1:56
Speaker 1: like we're from other parts of the world of the country. Well, anyway,
2:01
Speaker 1: I'm so happy to have you. Let me tell everybody
2:04
Speaker 1: who you are, and then I'm going to let you
2:05
Speaker 1: take over. So I just want to say about Adam
2:10
Speaker 1: that he is he is way ahead of his time.
2:13
Speaker 1: And I say that because, you know, he worked at
2:18
Speaker 1: both the Mayo Clinic and Duke and he actually worked
2:21
Speaker 1: in New Jersey for a little bit. It was was
2:22
Speaker 1: called Health Systems, the company in New Jersey.
2:26
Speaker 2: And oh well I was at I was at Saint
2:29
Speaker 2: Barnabas that health system and then move most of my
2:32
Speaker 2: time over to what was u M D NJ. It's
2:35
Speaker 2: now Rutgers so I kind of spent my time in
2:38
Speaker 2: New Jersey before I went to Duke in twenty eleven, right, and.
2:41
Speaker 1: He has he has all his degrees from from Tufts
2:46
Speaker 1: and from Boston University, so that is consistent with where
2:50
Speaker 1: he grew up. But anyway, he when I say, he's
2:55
Speaker 1: ahead of his time. So he started early on in
2:58
Speaker 1: at Rutgers, as he said, then he went to the
3:00
Speaker 1: Mayo Clinic and they went did you go to Mayo
3:03
Speaker 1: Clinic first and then.
3:04
Speaker 2: Duke Duke first?
3:06
Speaker 1: Yes, Duke, So he was in Duke and then the
3:08
Speaker 1: Mayo Clinic and both all three of those places. He
3:12
Speaker 1: was a big way ahead of his time because he
3:15
Speaker 1: was working in functional and integrative medicine way before they
3:20
Speaker 1: became the kind of mainstream that they are today. So
3:24
Speaker 1: what was it, Adam, that got you so aware of
3:29
Speaker 1: and interested in focusing on an area of medicine that
3:33
Speaker 1: you certainly were not studying in the early days of
3:39
Speaker 1: your education of your medical education. So what was it
3:44
Speaker 1: that led you to become an integrative medicine doctor?
3:49
Speaker 2: Sure happy to answer that, and again, it's it's great
3:50
Speaker 2: to be here with you doing this this podcast. Well,
3:55
Speaker 2: I mean I did go to medical school, knowing I
3:57
Speaker 2: had an interest in what at the time was referred
4:00
Speaker 2: to as complementary and alternative medicine. Integrative didn't really exist
4:04
Speaker 2: as a term, nor did functional medicine back then, and
4:08
Speaker 2: I was intrigued. I mean, again, without going way back
4:12
Speaker 2: into my history, I mean, I had a background in
4:14
Speaker 2: martial arts, but I was intrigued in things that came
4:18
Speaker 2: from other healing traditions. But I really was interested in
4:21
Speaker 2: trying to be a part of a small part of
4:23
Speaker 2: a transformation of healthcare because I wondered why we didn't
4:26
Speaker 2: integrate more of this into the conventional system. At that time.
4:29
Speaker 2: It was things like acupuncture, certainly, vitamins, dietary supplements, probiotics,
4:34
Speaker 2: massage therapy, and really wanted to look at the evidence
4:37
Speaker 2: for these sorts of interventions. I thought it was really
4:40
Speaker 2: important that we do that and contribute to that evidence.
4:42
Speaker 2: So I've had along with my clinical career, I've done
4:46
Speaker 2: a fair amount of research throughout my career. So even
4:49
Speaker 2: going to medical school, knew it was an interest. Had
4:52
Speaker 2: a phenomenal opportunity right after finishing my training to start
4:56
Speaker 2: one of the earlier hospital based integrative medicine programs Healthcare
5:00
Speaker 2: system in New Jersey, as you've just mentioned in the intro,
5:04
Speaker 2: and really enjoyed that. In twenty eleven, again phenomenal opportunity
5:09
Speaker 2: to go to Duke where I did run Duke Integrative Medicine.
5:12
Speaker 2: They have a beautiful program there, also oversaw the Duke
5:15
Speaker 2: Diet Center and a fitness center, and that was when
5:20
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, around that time period twenty
5:24
Speaker 2: ten twenty eleven, I began more formal functional medicine training
5:29
Speaker 2: and that really launched my interest in gut health and
5:33
Speaker 2: its connection to chronic diseases. Began to implement a lot
5:37
Speaker 2: of that sort of an approach, sort of focusing on
5:40
Speaker 2: the gut very often for various chronic diseases while I
5:45
Speaker 2: was at Duke, and then as you've mentioned, I was
5:48
Speaker 2: recruited to Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, Florida that was two
5:52
Speaker 2: thousand and nineteen to build their integrative functional medicine program. Again,
5:58
Speaker 2: really enjoyed what I was doing there. I believe it
6:02
Speaker 2: was there that I gave a talk on what it's
6:06
Speaker 2: called Grand Rounds talk, which I could talk for your
6:08
Speaker 2: colleagues within the medical center on the connection between gut
6:12
Speaker 2: health and chronic diseases. And I also gave a talk
6:15
Speaker 2: at a Mayo Nutrition conference, and I think maybe that's
6:17
Speaker 2: where Colleen Cutcliffe, our CEO at Pendulum, saw me. Mayo
6:22
Speaker 2: Ventures was an early investor in Pendulum, and so she
6:25
Speaker 2: reached out to do a study for Pendulum, a repeat, larger,
6:30
Speaker 2: mo robust study on one of their products called Pendulum
6:32
Speaker 2: Glucose Control. So this was a study on Type two diabetics.
6:36
Speaker 2: And in designing that study and using their products on
6:40
Speaker 2: my patients, you know, I really appreciated, certainly the efficacy
6:45
Speaker 2: of the products in my clinical practice, but the commitment
6:47
Speaker 2: of the company to the science and what have you.
6:49
Speaker 2: And still wasn't thinking of leaving Mayo. But when the
6:53
Speaker 2: chief medical officer decided to retire, it just was a
6:56
Speaker 2: phenomenal opportunity. So as of the beginning of twenty twenty four,
7:02
Speaker 2: I jumped ship, so to speak, and have been chief
7:05
Speaker 2: medical officer at Pendulum since that time.
7:08
Speaker 1: You know, it's really interesting too, because you were in
7:12
Speaker 1: the actually the bureaucratic, bigger organizations, So now you're in
7:17
Speaker 1: an entrepreneurial not exactly a startup anymore, but it's still
7:22
Speaker 1: an early stage company. What have you found to be
7:25
Speaker 1: the differences in your working environment, your ability to get
7:30
Speaker 1: things done, your interaction with your staff and all that.
7:35
Speaker 1: How would you describe the difference between the big company
7:39
Speaker 1: and the small companies that you're in now?
7:43
Speaker 2: I mean, again a great question. I have spent I mean,
7:46
Speaker 2: pretty much the majority obviously of my twenty six now
7:50
Speaker 2: year career, since I finished my training primarily within large
7:55
Speaker 2: academic health center systems like Duke and like Mayo Clinic,
8:00
Speaker 2: and I enjoyed that, and I feel to a certain
8:02
Speaker 2: degree I learned to be successful obviously in those environments.
8:05
Speaker 2: But it does take some persistence. It takes you need
8:11
Speaker 2: to be patient, and when you're trying to do innovative things,
8:15
Speaker 2: and of course when you're building integrative medicine programs in
8:19
Speaker 2: a way, by definition you're trying to be innovative within
8:21
Speaker 2: the conventional system. You know, it takes time, without a doubt,
8:27
Speaker 2: And there are things that I can get done in
8:30
Speaker 2: you know, three days perhaps if not three minutes at
8:34
Speaker 2: Pendulum that might take me three months or longer at
8:39
Speaker 2: somewhere like Mayo Clinic. Again, was very proud and very
8:42
Speaker 2: proud that I was at Mayo and that I've had
8:44
Speaker 2: opportunites to be at Duke, but it has been a
8:46
Speaker 2: very different experience to be able to move a little
8:49
Speaker 2: more quickly, be a little more nimble, and bring ideas
8:53
Speaker 2: to fruition and still be on this sort of cutting edge.
8:56
Speaker 2: I mean it mayo obviously I felt because while but
8:58
Speaker 2: I felt like we were providing certainly cutting edge conventional care.
9:02
Speaker 2: But at Pendulum we are really sort of at the
9:05
Speaker 2: at the forefront of leading kind of this next great
9:08
Speaker 2: frontier of health care and our understanding of health and
9:13
Speaker 2: as it relates to the development of diseases, which is
9:15
Speaker 2: really looking at the microbiome, looking at these next generation
9:19
Speaker 2: probiotics and how we can use them to really bring
9:22
Speaker 2: about a new sort of health reality for people that
9:26
Speaker 2: just couldn't achieve the goals their health related goals, you know,
9:29
Speaker 2: in the past. So that's been very exciting for me.
9:31
Speaker 1: And have you given up seeing patients? Thank you?
9:36
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I didn't want to totally give that up.
9:39
Speaker 2: I mean, I love seeing patients and I love providing
9:42
Speaker 2: integrate of functional medicine, and so I do have a
9:46
Speaker 2: very limited Obviously, I'm very busy with my role at Pendulum,
9:49
Speaker 2: and I think one of the advantages is the company
9:51
Speaker 2: is on the west coast and I'm on the on
9:53
Speaker 2: the East coast. So a couple of mornings a week
9:56
Speaker 2: I do see patients. I a couple of patients this morning,
10:00
Speaker 2: and you know, that's been great to be able to
10:02
Speaker 2: keep my hand in it. I have a practice in
10:04
Speaker 2: Jacksonville that has allowed me to do that.
10:08
Speaker 1: And have you stayed as a specialist? Now are you
10:11
Speaker 1: continuing to just say patients see you are referred to
10:15
Speaker 1: you as a now a functional medicine doctor with a
10:19
Speaker 1: microbio expertise.
10:22
Speaker 2: I mean, yes, that's always what I've done. So, I
10:25
Speaker 2: mean I trained as an intern is certainly trained in
10:27
Speaker 2: primary care. But just given the nature of my career,
10:30
Speaker 2: I haven't practiced as a primary care physician. I've practiced
10:36
Speaker 2: primarily as an integrative functional medicine physician sort of consultant,
10:41
Speaker 2: and that's worked out well. But I see all kinds
10:44
Speaker 2: of things that one might imagine that we see in
10:47
Speaker 2: these sorts of practice. Certainly cancer as a part of it,
10:49
Speaker 2: chronic pain, autoimmune conditions, a lot of gut related issues,
10:53
Speaker 2: and in functional medicine, as you're aware, and with integrative
10:57
Speaker 2: I mean we're interested in trying to get it root
10:58
Speaker 2: cause A certainly this integration of complementary modalities, But what
11:03
Speaker 2: I really like about the approach clinically is it's really
11:06
Speaker 2: thinking about issues from the perspective of the biological systems
11:10
Speaker 2: and how can we correct those systems, and how might
11:13
Speaker 2: those biological systems may be influencing the disease or the
11:16
Speaker 2: symptom that the patient is presenting with. And that's why
11:19
Speaker 2: so much of the focus goes on the gut, because
11:21
Speaker 2: the gut is so pivotal to so many diseases and
11:26
Speaker 2: symptoms that patients may be experiencing, from joint pain to
11:31
Speaker 2: gut related issues to headaches, there may be a gut
11:33
Speaker 2: related component to that to the condition.
11:37
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12:30
Speaker 1: You know, it's so interesting though, because the microbiome has
12:34
Speaker 1: really only become the darling of the functional medicine industry
12:38
Speaker 1: or a profession, let's say, in the last few years.
12:42
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody really paid that much attention and the
12:45
Speaker 1: gut brain access and the microbiome as the key to
12:49
Speaker 1: longevity and health span and so forth. So you, again,
12:54
Speaker 1: as I said, you were ahead of your time, and
12:57
Speaker 1: I think you know as a in the forefront of
13:01
Speaker 1: the expertise. Is there anything that you can say you
13:06
Speaker 1: learned in the beginning that you would say was incorrect
13:10
Speaker 1: and would not be what you would use today in
13:13
Speaker 1: terms of the knowledge of the microbiome and how it
13:16
Speaker 1: functions in promoting our longevity.
13:20
Speaker 2: Well, let me make a first a comment even before
13:23
Speaker 2: I answer your question directly, because you just noted that
13:29
Speaker 2: we've sort of had this explosion of interest in the
13:32
Speaker 2: microbiome and part of what has allowed that to occur,
13:36
Speaker 2: or has sort of been the impetus for that, is
13:38
Speaker 2: that the technology to study the microbiome has really advanced
13:43
Speaker 2: over the last twenty plus years, you know, whereas we
13:47
Speaker 2: now have technologies beyond having to grow bacteria in some
13:52
Speaker 2: petri dish like you did in you know, maybe high
13:55
Speaker 2: school biology, to these genome sequencing technologies what's called something
14:00
Speaker 2: called PCR, and that's really allowed us to study the
14:02
Speaker 2: microbiome in a more detailed way, to study strains of bacteria,
14:07
Speaker 2: for example, that are anaerobic that cannot be exposed to oxygen,
14:12
Speaker 2: so you couldn't just kind of put them on a
14:14
Speaker 2: petri dish in your lab. And that's where the discovery
14:17
Speaker 2: of some of these really next generation keystone strains that
14:20
Speaker 2: I know we're going to discuss. And this is part
14:22
Speaker 2: of what Pendulum sort of claim to fame, is bringing
14:25
Speaker 2: these strains to the marketplace. So that's what's allowed us.
14:28
Speaker 2: And even every day, I mean, I you know, keep
14:31
Speaker 2: up with the literature. It's like every day there's some
14:34
Speaker 2: new study or other or multiple studies coming out that
14:37
Speaker 2: is helping us to understand you know, yet another connection
14:41
Speaker 2: of the gut microbiome to some sort of chronic disease
14:45
Speaker 2: or disease development or health related issue. And so that's
14:49
Speaker 2: been really exciting. I don't your question around, you know,
14:53
Speaker 2: is there something that maybe I used to think that
14:57
Speaker 2: I have changed. I guess I would answer that by saying,
15:02
Speaker 2: you know, maybe even just four or five years ago,
15:04
Speaker 2: if you said to me as a patient, let's say,
15:07
Speaker 2: or you know, as a friend, should I take a colleague,
15:10
Speaker 2: should I take a probiotic? You know, I might say, well,
15:14
Speaker 2: I don't know, I'm not sure if you know, the
15:15
Speaker 2: evidence is there for just taking a daily probiotic. But
15:18
Speaker 2: if I think a lot of us used to just say,
15:21
Speaker 2: you know, take something with at least five strains and
15:24
Speaker 2: you know, thirty billion units. And I don't even know
15:27
Speaker 2: where that came from exactly. I mean from colleagues. They've
15:30
Speaker 2: heard it from me. And you know, those probiotics that
15:34
Speaker 2: historically have been on the shelves have been Lactobacillis strains,
15:38
Speaker 2: but fido Bacterium strains, things that I'm sure some of
15:41
Speaker 2: your audience are familiar with, or if they, you know,
15:43
Speaker 2: looked at the labels on their probiotics, and certainly they
15:47
Speaker 2: have a role in the body. But you know, I
15:50
Speaker 2: think what we've come to understand now is that if
15:54
Speaker 2: you ask the question should I take a probiotic, then
15:58
Speaker 2: I really need to ask the question what are you
16:00
Speaker 2: taking it for? And what strain therefore are you taking
16:05
Speaker 2: and what is the evidence for that particular strain for
16:07
Speaker 2: that particular indication. And so we're not fully there yet.
16:11
Speaker 2: We have a lot more to understand, but this idea
16:13
Speaker 2: to be more precise and have more sort of precision
16:16
Speaker 2: probiotics and know this strain has the best evidence for
16:21
Speaker 2: your particular condition. That's really where I think the field
16:25
Speaker 2: is moving as it relates to the whole concept of probiotics.
16:28
Speaker 1: How many strains are there if you had to make
16:32
Speaker 1: a lift.
16:34
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think again this gets debated. People
16:37
Speaker 2: tend to say anywhere from seventy to one hundred trillion
16:40
Speaker 2: bacteria in the gud. There are hundreds to thousands of strains.
16:44
Speaker 2: I mean, undoubtedly we probably haven't characterized all the strains,
16:47
Speaker 2: but suffice it to say that it's a lot of
16:49
Speaker 2: different a lot of bacteria and a lot of different
16:51
Speaker 2: types of bacteria.
16:53
Speaker 1: So a lot to ask a patient in terms of
16:57
Speaker 1: and they may not even know the answers you know
16:59
Speaker 1: that to give you because they don't know. Really, why
17:02
Speaker 1: do I feel so badly? I just can't pinpoint what
17:06
Speaker 1: it is? You know you are you are really a
17:08
Speaker 1: detective when you're dealing with trying to discover the root
17:12
Speaker 1: cause of the patient's symptoms, So right, I mean.
17:17
Speaker 2: I think, and I think it even goes beyond. I mean,
17:20
Speaker 2: I wouldn't call this necessarily a symptom, so it's it's symptoms,
17:23
Speaker 2: but it's things like I can't control my cravings. Yes,
17:26
Speaker 2: I'm not sure why that is. And and these things
17:29
Speaker 2: were laid back directly, very often to the microbiome. And
17:32
Speaker 2: this is a new insight that we've gained just over
17:36
Speaker 2: the last few years.
17:38
Speaker 1: Did you ever feel like you were just so at
17:43
Speaker 1: a brick wall? I mean that you just couldn't figure
17:46
Speaker 1: out what the answers were and you were just ready
17:49
Speaker 1: to give up with with with limited the limited knowledge
17:54
Speaker 1: of what you had back then compared to what you
17:57
Speaker 1: might have been doing with the same patient today. Did
18:01
Speaker 1: you ever feel like just hitting a brick wall?
18:05
Speaker 2: Actually, I don't think I ever did, to be honest
18:07
Speaker 2: with you. I mean, I think there's certainly, and having
18:11
Speaker 2: practice at places like Duke and Mayo, and often very
18:15
Speaker 2: often the majority of the time seeing patients that have
18:17
Speaker 2: seen a number of other very bright healthcare providers and
18:22
Speaker 2: haven't gotten the answers that they've wanted. And I'm in
18:25
Speaker 2: no way implying I'm brighter than those other healthcare providers,
18:27
Speaker 2: but taking a different approach, taking a different perspective on
18:30
Speaker 2: the condition has often been helpful. But even when I
18:33
Speaker 2: couldn't get to root cause, I've always kept it in
18:36
Speaker 2: the back of my mind that there's always an opportunity
18:39
Speaker 2: to try and relieve suffering. So even when we can't cure,
18:43
Speaker 2: even when there's going to be some degree of ongoing
18:46
Speaker 2: chronic symptoms or whatever the case may be, which is
18:51
Speaker 2: the case more often than I wish, there's almost always
18:56
Speaker 2: the opportunity to focus on relieving suffering in some way. So,
19:00
Speaker 2: you know, that's that's something I was keeping the back
19:02
Speaker 2: of my mind, you know, no matter who the patient
19:05
Speaker 2: is that I'm seeing or what the issue may be
19:07
Speaker 2: that I'm trying to address to Adam.
19:09
Speaker 1: Until recently, probiotics were always kind of an enigma because
19:15
Speaker 1: many of them you were just wasting your money you
19:17
Speaker 1: couldn't spend the money to get the probiotics, but they
19:21
Speaker 1: would never survive the digestive tract, the acidity. So how
19:27
Speaker 1: is Pendulum different than these traditions. I know you're not
19:31
Speaker 1: a probiotic company, You're a microbiome scientifically based company. So
19:36
Speaker 1: I want to be clear with our audience that we're
19:38
Speaker 1: not talking about just another probiotic. We're talking about eons
19:42
Speaker 1: of knowledge and science beyond that, but going back to
19:47
Speaker 1: the roots of probiotics where they just wouldn't survive. And
19:52
Speaker 1: I can remember so many times buying a probiotic and
19:55
Speaker 1: thinking it was doing me good and then reading that
19:58
Speaker 1: the science behind it that that now I couldn't even
20:00
Speaker 1: get through my digestive track. So how does Pendulum change
20:05
Speaker 1: that and make the efficacy of the products get through
20:12
Speaker 1: and not only the acidity, but slow methylaters or people
20:16
Speaker 1: who are toxic and are not absorbing. How do you
20:19
Speaker 1: get around all of that to make them work again?
20:23
Speaker 2: A great question. I think it's probably best to answer
20:25
Speaker 2: it by starting off with a little bit of the
20:28
Speaker 2: history of the company, because you mentioned earlier Bendum isn't
20:32
Speaker 2: exactly a startup. I mean, the company's been around for
20:34
Speaker 2: over ten years, right, and it was founded by you know,
20:38
Speaker 2: PhD scientists, microbiologists who were interested in studying this connection
20:46
Speaker 2: between the microbiome and health. They began to study some
20:50
Speaker 2: of these again quote next generation probiotics as I mentioned earlier,
20:56
Speaker 2: primarily anaerobic strains, trains that cannot be exposed to oxygen
21:01
Speaker 2: and that have very profound effects on our health in
21:04
Speaker 2: particular metabolism, but other aspects of our health. They focus
21:10
Speaker 2: down on five main strains, and you know, the big
21:14
Speaker 2: strain being something called acromancia, which I can talk about
21:17
Speaker 2: more in a moment in terms of the science behind acromancia.
21:20
Speaker 1: Right.
21:21
Speaker 2: They once they figured out that these strains were not
21:25
Speaker 2: only critical for human health, but they wanted to try
21:27
Speaker 2: to provide access to a product to consumers. They had
21:31
Speaker 2: to figure out how to grow these anaerobic bacteria in
21:36
Speaker 2: a way that they would survive. That took about three
21:39
Speaker 2: years to figure out. And then to your point, they
21:43
Speaker 2: needed to figure out how to deliver these bacteria to
21:47
Speaker 2: the distal intestine, to the large intestine the colon basically
21:51
Speaker 2: the distal pant of your GI track, because that's where
21:54
Speaker 2: these anaerobic bacteria live in the colon where there isn't oxygen, right,
22:00
Speaker 2: and so they work through this manufacturing process. Actually built
22:07
Speaker 2: a plant in San Francisco to manufacture the products and
22:13
Speaker 2: also utilize this vegetable based, acid resistant delayed release capsule
22:22
Speaker 2: to allow the bacteria to make it through, as you've
22:26
Speaker 2: already said, make it through that acidic environment of the
22:29
Speaker 2: stomach and get all the way down to the to
22:32
Speaker 2: the large intestine where they get released and kind of
22:35
Speaker 2: work their magic. Mh.
22:37
Speaker 1: And what about the methylaids, flow methylators and the and
22:41
Speaker 1: the toxic people. How how do you get around that?
22:44
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I wouldn't use the expression get around it,
22:49
Speaker 2: because you know, it's it's it really is a part
22:52
Speaker 2: of an overall approach. You know, I wouldn't say that
22:57
Speaker 2: you can take almost any pill and just ignore all
22:59
Speaker 2: the their aspects of lifestyle and expect that you're going
23:02
Speaker 2: to get the results that you need. So very often,
23:04
Speaker 2: if someone is you know, dealing with at least in
23:07
Speaker 2: my clinical practice, if they are kind of quote unquote
23:10
Speaker 2: toxic as you're describing, or may have issues with methylation,
23:13
Speaker 2: it's really a comprehensive plan. And I'm often starting by
23:15
Speaker 2: looking at diet and what we need to do to
23:18
Speaker 2: enhance their diet and lifestyle overall, and then looking at
23:23
Speaker 2: how we may integrate appropriate probiotics as a piece of
23:26
Speaker 2: that overall plan. And so you know, I'd never say
23:29
Speaker 2: just take a pill and everything's going to get better.
23:31
Speaker 2: But for many people it's a missing piece because they
23:35
Speaker 2: haven't thought that the gut microbiome may be a key
23:38
Speaker 2: component of what they're dealing with.
23:41
Speaker 1: Absolutely, So let's talk about the specifics. If people who
23:46
Speaker 1: are watching today have never heard of acamancia and that's
23:50
Speaker 1: your flagship product, let's take a deep dive and tell
23:55
Speaker 1: us as if we're kindergarten level, tell us what mancia
24:00
Speaker 1: is and what it does and how it's going to
24:03
Speaker 1: improve our overall health.
24:05
Speaker 2: Sure, I'd love to so we can say different ways.
24:08
Speaker 2: I say acromancia, but you know I've heard I've heard
24:12
Speaker 2: people say akromancia. The full name for the strain that
24:15
Speaker 2: we have is acromancia, muse and ophelia, So which really
24:18
Speaker 2: needs kind of muse and loving. So I'll talk about that.
24:20
Speaker 2: There are two main roles that acromancia plays, many many roles,
24:25
Speaker 2: but two main roles. Maybe that I'll focus on I mean,
24:27
Speaker 2: because you know there's roles within aging all kinds of
24:31
Speaker 2: things that that and and influences on the immune system.
24:34
Speaker 2: But just for the moment, let me focus on two
24:38
Speaker 2: and and that is the influence on metabolic health and
24:42
Speaker 2: specifically the release of a hormone that many of your
24:45
Speaker 2: listeners are probably familiar with called GLP one, which many
24:49
Speaker 2: people are injecting into themselves to help with weight loss
24:51
Speaker 2: and diabetes. And so there's the metabolic side, and then
24:56
Speaker 2: there's this role in helping demain the integrity the health
25:01
Speaker 2: of the lining of the gut. So first on the
25:04
Speaker 2: metabolic side, the GLP one side. So it turns out
25:10
Speaker 2: that when we eat a meal, specific strains of bacteria
25:17
Speaker 2: in our gut, in this case acromancia, eat that meal.
25:22
Speaker 2: They eat the fiber within that meal and they release
25:27
Speaker 2: signaling molecules, and those molecules then tell cells within the
25:32
Speaker 2: lining of the gut to release this unhunger hormone, GLP one.
25:39
Speaker 2: And GLP one gets released into the blood, it goes
25:43
Speaker 2: to the pancreas and it tells the pancreas this person
25:47
Speaker 2: just ate release insulin so their blood sugar doesn't go
25:51
Speaker 2: too high. It goes to their gut and slows down
25:56
Speaker 2: digestions so that you can absorb the foods that you're
25:58
Speaker 2: eating and feel a little more full, and it travels
26:01
Speaker 2: up to the brain, to the hippocampus and says, okay,
26:06
Speaker 2: let's stop this person from eating. Let them feel hungry.
26:09
Speaker 2: Kind of like when you go to the gas station
26:12
Speaker 2: to fill up your gas tank if you don't drive
26:14
Speaker 2: an ev you know, you go to plug it in
26:17
Speaker 2: and you click the little thing and you can hands free,
26:20
Speaker 2: and somehow magically that gas pump knows when your tank
26:25
Speaker 2: is full and it clicks off. And one is really
26:28
Speaker 2: the hormone that, amongst others, it kind of tells you
26:31
Speaker 2: to stop eating because you're full. All of that happens
26:36
Speaker 2: with Acromancia, amongst other strains, as the middleman okay, signaling
26:43
Speaker 2: the body to make golp one because someone has just
26:46
Speaker 2: eating a meal. So it's a very important bacteria as
26:50
Speaker 2: it relates to maintaining a healthy weight, as it may
26:53
Speaker 2: as it relates to maintaining cravings, as it relates and
26:57
Speaker 2: not having a problem with cravings. It's very important as
27:01
Speaker 2: it relates to sort of energy metabolism and utilizing foods
27:05
Speaker 2: and turning them into energy appropriately without things like your
27:08
Speaker 2: sugar going too high. So that's one very important component,
27:13
Speaker 2: and the other really is to maintain this health of
27:15
Speaker 2: the gut lining. And so let me make sure I
27:20
Speaker 2: can explain this, you know, for your audience. If we
27:22
Speaker 2: think of the gut as and maybe describe it the
27:27
Speaker 2: way our CEO at Pendulum, Colleen likes to describe it
27:31
Speaker 2: as sort of a fence similar to what she has
27:33
Speaker 2: in her backyard. If we can imagine the boards sort
27:36
Speaker 2: of line up, and you want those boards tiped together
27:40
Speaker 2: so things can't get through. Now, in the case of
27:42
Speaker 2: our gut, there are mechanisms that allow things that should
27:45
Speaker 2: get through to get through, but you want to keep
27:47
Speaker 2: out the things that shouldn't, you know, And then you
27:50
Speaker 2: want to let in only the thing you know, keep
27:52
Speaker 2: out foe and let in friend. And so we want
27:56
Speaker 2: those boards tiped together. But also on the outside side
28:00
Speaker 2: of that fence, there's sort of a shellac and in
28:03
Speaker 2: the case of our gut that sheillac is called musin.
28:09
Speaker 2: It acts kind of like a flypaper. So it also
28:12
Speaker 2: helps to trap things that maybe you know, trying to
28:15
Speaker 2: get into our bloodstream. They're going to trigger our immune
28:17
Speaker 2: system trigger inflammation. And one of the things that acromancia
28:23
Speaker 2: musin ophelia musein loving acromancia does is almost like a
28:27
Speaker 2: pac man. It sort of eats up old musin and
28:31
Speaker 2: stimulates other cells in the gut to actually make new
28:35
Speaker 2: musein fresh muse and so you keep that gut lining healthy.
28:41
Speaker 2: And that is so important for so many aspects of
28:44
Speaker 2: our health, including aging. Because you've probably talked about this
28:48
Speaker 2: on your podcast, but this concept of inflammaging and how
28:52
Speaker 2: certain components of aging are really related to certainly our
28:54
Speaker 2: immune system and an upregulation of inflammation and chronic inflammation.
28:59
Speaker 2: And when the gut is leaky or if I want
29:02
Speaker 2: to sound more like a doctor, increase, we have increased
29:05
Speaker 2: intestinal permeability. But most people know that as leaky gut
29:10
Speaker 2: that typically is going to contribute to this upregulation of
29:13
Speaker 2: the of the immune system, upregulation of inflammation, which can
29:18
Speaker 2: contribute to development of all kinds of diseases and certainly
29:21
Speaker 2: further the kind of unhealthy aging process that we want
29:25
Speaker 2: to try to avoid.
29:26
Speaker 1: And where does LPs come in?
29:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, so LPs lipopolysaccharides, those are one of the types
29:36
Speaker 2: of molecules let's say that can leak into the gut
29:40
Speaker 2: in large amounts when that integrity, that health of that
29:45
Speaker 2: gut lining isn't what it should be. So when the
29:48
Speaker 2: LPs is get into the bloodstream, the immune system comes
29:51
Speaker 2: over and says, what's this? This isn't supposed to be here.
29:55
Speaker 2: That trigger is sort of a turning on and upregulation
29:59
Speaker 2: of the immune system, a release of immune cells, which
30:02
Speaker 2: by and large are pro inflammatory cells. So when we're
30:06
Speaker 2: leaking a lot of LPs is into the bloodstream, we
30:10
Speaker 2: are potentially chronically upregulating the immune system and by extension inflammation.
30:17
Speaker 1: So how did a person who suspects that they may
30:22
Speaker 1: have leaki gut or some other microbione condition negative condition,
30:28
Speaker 1: how did they get the best testing to know exactly
30:32
Speaker 1: what's going on.
30:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's a tricky question, and certainly as
30:39
Speaker 2: it relates to our microbiome. There are a number of
30:42
Speaker 2: labs out there that offer testing. The science can vary
30:46
Speaker 2: a little bit in terms of how they actually do
30:50
Speaker 2: that testing, but they look often at the microbiome itself.
30:54
Speaker 2: They look at sort of stool chemistry. So you know,
30:58
Speaker 2: we're talking about things you might find in someone's poop,
31:02
Speaker 2: so to speak, but that may give a sign as
31:04
Speaker 2: to whether or not there are some issues going on.
31:08
Speaker 2: There's a lot of information that we get from those tests,
31:11
Speaker 2: and some of that information can be very actionable, and
31:14
Speaker 2: sometimes we're not quite sure what to do that information
31:17
Speaker 2: because it's only a snapshot in time. We don't really
31:21
Speaker 2: know what a healthy microbiome is for you exactly compared
31:25
Speaker 2: to me. There's a lot of variability around that you
31:28
Speaker 2: know who, and but often it can give you information
31:31
Speaker 2: that can be helpful. There are some tests out there
31:34
Speaker 2: for leaki gut. I will say that the science behind
31:38
Speaker 2: many of those tests is not rock silent solid, and
31:42
Speaker 2: we do need to sort of strengthen our understanding of
31:45
Speaker 2: how we can test for leaki gut. At Mayo Clinic,
31:50
Speaker 2: they actually have a scope, however, that they use only
31:52
Speaker 2: for research purposes, and that scope can actually see increased
31:57
Speaker 2: intestinal permeability in real time. So that certainly is a way,
32:00
Speaker 2: but it's not, you know, clinically available, but it is
32:03
Speaker 2: something that I often mentioned because I think there are
32:06
Speaker 2: still people out there, maybe even healthcare providers out there,
32:09
Speaker 2: that think, you know, leaki gut doesn't exist, and it
32:12
Speaker 2: certainly does, and it's well understood and there are you know,
32:15
Speaker 2: probably thousands of articles out there now describing this concept
32:19
Speaker 2: of increased intestinal permeability and other medical word endotoxemia really
32:24
Speaker 2: a fancy medical word for leaking toxins from the gut
32:28
Speaker 2: into the bloodstream. And and you know that's these are
32:31
Speaker 2: all different ways of talking about, you know, this concept
32:35
Speaker 2: of leaky gut and my clinical practice, I'll just say
32:38
Speaker 2: that I typically assume it's there. You know, it's kind
32:40
Speaker 2: of when the symptoms are there, and you know, you
32:43
Speaker 2: kind of assume that they're probably as a component of
32:45
Speaker 2: leaki gut going on. Because it is hard to test and.
32:48
Speaker 1: So many people are averse to doing a stool test.
32:51
Speaker 1: So I was just wondering if there's been any science
32:53
Speaker 1: and any technology that has advanced from having to go
32:59
Speaker 1: through the stool tests to getting as efficacious results using
33:05
Speaker 1: the blood or like KBMO. I don't know if you
33:08
Speaker 1: know them, doctor James White. He's actually right there where
33:13
Speaker 1: you and I grew up in the Boston area. But
33:16
Speaker 1: they it's kb m O and James White is the CEO.
33:21
Speaker 1: But they do a prick of the finger and they
33:23
Speaker 1: then give you after a week or so, they send
33:26
Speaker 1: you the test results, can that possibly? And I don't
33:29
Speaker 1: want to, you know, demean them in any way, But
33:32
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people like you, who are
33:35
Speaker 1: so immersed in this would question whether you can really
33:38
Speaker 1: get the same kind of knowledge and information from doing
33:45
Speaker 1: that as you do from a school test. I'm just
33:48
Speaker 1: curious to know what your thoughts are.
33:50
Speaker 2: Well, in a general sense, the technology is certainly advancing,
33:57
Speaker 2: and it's very exciting. Again, you know, without taking a
34:00
Speaker 2: deep dive. I've heard of KBMO, but without taking a
34:03
Speaker 2: deep dive in there science. I don't want to comment
34:05
Speaker 2: one way or another just because I don't know enough
34:08
Speaker 2: specifically about their science.
34:09
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't about them about the concept of using
34:14
Speaker 1: blood versus the stool.
34:16
Speaker 2: I mean, I would imagine in the long run there
34:18
Speaker 2: are things we'll be able to tell from the blood.
34:22
Speaker 2: I don't think the science is close as far as
34:24
Speaker 2: I understand, to be able to really characterize the microbiome
34:27
Speaker 2: from some sort of fingerstick. And and you know, I
34:32
Speaker 2: think it's it behooves us all to keep our our
34:37
Speaker 2: eye on on the science and how it's advancing. But
34:40
Speaker 2: I think that it's also important to really allow the
34:43
Speaker 2: science to be truly validated before we start to use
34:46
Speaker 2: it to make important healthcare decisions.
34:49
Speaker 1: And you you know, you're you've been doing this for
34:51
Speaker 1: a long time, so you've seen that advancement. But I
34:55
Speaker 1: don't totally agree with you that sometimes you get these
34:58
Speaker 1: let's just say you take a stool to and you
35:00
Speaker 1: get all these results that could really complicate because there's
35:04
Speaker 1: so much information that you might miss the you know,
35:08
Speaker 1: the bullseye in terms of what is really the cause,
35:11
Speaker 1: instead of having all these potential influences that aren't really
35:16
Speaker 1: making that that huge difference. But the information is so
35:21
Speaker 1: voluminous that you can you know, misread. I guess it's
35:24
Speaker 1: just like getting false positives and well, you know I'm
35:29
Speaker 1: saying and like what I'm not I'm not asking you
35:33
Speaker 1: to comment on that because it's obviously a truth, and
35:37
Speaker 1: it just it's gonna, you know, it's good. It's going
35:39
Speaker 1: to exist for a while until there's some easy way
35:42
Speaker 1: for us to get the information with without all the
35:45
Speaker 1: confusion of the potential confusion. But then what about Candida
35:50
Speaker 1: and and you know a yeast infections which so many
35:53
Speaker 1: people complain, you know, they've gotten one strain or another.
35:58
Speaker 1: There's I think there's three strains, right of candida possibility
36:01
Speaker 1: like the AID.
36:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, there are multiple strains, and I think you know,
36:06
Speaker 2: there's another example where most of the stool testing can
36:09
Speaker 2: certainly see if there are elevated levels and there are treatments.
36:16
Speaker 2: Very often though for a practice like mine, if we're
36:18
Speaker 2: concerned about those sorts of issues or candida specifically, we
36:22
Speaker 2: try to start with adjusting diet and looking at the
36:25
Speaker 2: microbiome potentially, or thinking about the microbiome and where there
36:29
Speaker 2: may be imbalances and how we might help to restore
36:34
Speaker 2: a balance to that ecosystem. So that's always an important consideration.
36:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that diet would obviously the first and foremost
36:43
Speaker 1: is get rid of sugar, right, I think that goes
36:47
Speaker 1: for all of what we're talking about, that sugar is
36:49
Speaker 1: the big enemy of the health of the microbiome and
36:53
Speaker 1: the health of the person overall. And then process food,
36:58
Speaker 1: which is the sad diet standard American diet, which you know,
37:03
Speaker 1: fortunately you and I are lucky enough to have known
37:06
Speaker 1: a long time ago to you know, not shop in
37:08
Speaker 1: the middle of the grocery store, to always only go
37:12
Speaker 1: to the aisles and where the you know, the protein
37:16
Speaker 1: and the and the vegetables and fruit are and I
37:18
Speaker 1: guess in some Candida diets you're not supposed to eat
37:21
Speaker 1: certain fruits because they're heavy in sugar, like bananas, I
37:23
Speaker 1: guess would be one. But anyway, before we get into nutrition,
37:29
Speaker 1: which I do want you to talk about a little bit,
37:31
Speaker 1: when but I had a couple other questions. I don't
37:33
Speaker 1: want to lose the acamancia and the but rate and
37:38
Speaker 1: then the tribe uterate because I was reading about that
37:41
Speaker 1: and I didn't know the difference. What is the difference
37:44
Speaker 1: between but ate and tribeuterate.
37:47
Speaker 2: Well, so let me again maybe step back and say
37:52
Speaker 2: that if we think about this from the perspective of
37:59
Speaker 2: the five strain that let's say Pendulum has brought to
38:01
Speaker 2: the market, right, And so the first product that Pendulum
38:05
Speaker 2: released was called Pendulum Glucose Control. And what's interesting about
38:10
Speaker 2: that is it has I'm.
38:11
Speaker 1: Sorry that was the study that you worked on.
38:14
Speaker 2: I didn't, that's correct, the follow up study. So there
38:16
Speaker 2: was an original study that was published in the British
38:19
Speaker 2: Meta and the BMJ, which medical journal, and that was
38:25
Speaker 2: a clinical trial, randomized clinical trial that looked at the
38:30
Speaker 2: use of this five strained formulation and people with type
38:34
Speaker 2: two diabetes, so we're actually on treatments like met forman,
38:37
Speaker 2: and showed that in individuals with clear signs of metabolic dysfunction,
38:41
Speaker 2: including in this case type two diabetes, that there were
38:46
Speaker 2: clinically significant, statistically and clinic significant improvements in glucose control.
38:51
Speaker 2: So glucose spikes is something we measure on continuous glucose monitors.
38:56
Speaker 2: Decreased by thirty three percent. And then again any of
39:00
Speaker 2: your audience that is familiar with diabetes will know one
39:03
Speaker 2: of the main things we monitor is something called hemoglobin
39:06
Speaker 2: A one c. It's just a blood test that we
39:08
Speaker 2: monitor for diabetes control. And it was actually a zero
39:13
Speaker 2: point six improvement in hemoglobin A one c and diabetics.
39:18
Speaker 2: And so that's what the gl pendulum glucose control products.
39:21
Speaker 2: So that product has five strains. It has acromancia, and
39:26
Speaker 2: then it's got three primary butyrate producers, and I could
39:29
Speaker 2: list them all off for you, but the three different
39:31
Speaker 2: sort of clastridium trains strains Bricum putriichii, Anerobuterricum hallei, these
39:37
Speaker 2: all make short chain fatty acids. Butyrate is a short
39:41
Speaker 2: chain fatty acid. Don't want to get too technical here,
39:44
Speaker 2: but and then there's a fifth strain which is called
39:48
Speaker 2: bafido Bacterium infantis, which the pediatricians know a lot about.
39:52
Speaker 2: It's very important in those first few years of life,
39:55
Speaker 2: but it continues to maintain a role later in life,
39:58
Speaker 2: and that's what's often referred to as a primary fermenttor.
40:02
Speaker 2: So it sort of helps to support other bacterial strains.
40:06
Speaker 2: The way bacterial work is, you know, it's kind of
40:10
Speaker 2: like a city. You know, everyone has different jobs and
40:14
Speaker 2: there's some overlap, so you know, I don't know, maybe
40:17
Speaker 2: the example might be the police. I mean you might
40:19
Speaker 2: have a sheriff's office, you might have the state police.
40:22
Speaker 2: There's the FBI. You know, there's not just one division
40:25
Speaker 2: that deals with legal, so you know there's an overlap there.
40:28
Speaker 2: And it's the same thing with the gut. There's an
40:30
Speaker 2: overlap of effort. There's also bad players, just like you
40:33
Speaker 2: might find in any city or any community, and you know,
40:37
Speaker 2: everyone's trying to keep each other in check. And so
40:40
Speaker 2: these five strains really work synergistically. But you know, to
40:45
Speaker 2: your point with beer it being so important and the
40:49
Speaker 2: way they work together, what the company was able to
40:52
Speaker 2: do was sort of through through our researches, is to
40:56
Speaker 2: put together a three strain formulation. So that's the newest train,
41:00
Speaker 2: the newest product that we've brought to market, which is
41:02
Speaker 2: called GLP one probiotic that specifically as acromancia. It has
41:08
Speaker 2: the Clustridium butterricum and it has the baffido Bacterium infantis
41:14
Speaker 2: mm hm. Those three strains again work synergistically, they work together. Interestingly,
41:20
Speaker 2: we actually studied that formulation and showed this significant decrease
41:25
Speaker 2: in cravings, which was really really instant. I can talk
41:28
Speaker 2: about that research, you know, certainly in a moment, but
41:31
Speaker 2: really interesting stuff there.
41:33
Speaker 1: Well, so I am going to ask you about the
41:37
Speaker 1: decrease in cravings, but I also wanted to mention the
41:41
Speaker 1: polyphenos and how important they are also synergistic with the
41:48
Speaker 1: impact of the achamanc acromencia. At some point I'm going
41:52
Speaker 1: to say it right, but you know, the point is
41:55
Speaker 1: with most people don't understand that golp one that they're
42:01
Speaker 1: injecting to lose, relate, or control metabholic health is synthetic
42:08
Speaker 1: and there are side effects and there many have been reported,
42:12
Speaker 1: whereas your product is completely natural and will not produce
42:17
Speaker 1: the side effects that have been associated with the injections
42:22
Speaker 1: of GLP one. Am I correct on.
42:25
Speaker 2: That this goes back to what I was saying really
42:28
Speaker 2: at the beginning of our conversation today, and this interest
42:33
Speaker 2: in how do we work at the level of the
42:35
Speaker 2: biological system, how do we you know, how do we
42:38
Speaker 2: work to help those biological systems to work the way
42:42
Speaker 2: they're supposed to. And so, yes, you can inject synthetic
42:45
Speaker 2: GLP one, it's not the way the body naturally utilizes
42:51
Speaker 2: GLP one, you know, just this injection periodically. What the
42:54
Speaker 2: body does, as I've already explained, is really released GLP
42:57
Speaker 2: one as it should in responds to a meal. But
43:01
Speaker 2: there are so many things that people could do inadvertently
43:05
Speaker 2: or on purpose without recognizing that they are having a
43:08
Speaker 2: negative effect on their microbiome, from a poor diet of course,
43:12
Speaker 2: to medications that they may or may not need to take,
43:15
Speaker 2: to stress, to things that you don't have control over,
43:19
Speaker 2: like whether you're pre oppostmenopausal, or you know, if you've
43:22
Speaker 2: just traveled through a few time zones and there's a
43:24
Speaker 2: change in your influence on your circadian rhythms. All of
43:28
Speaker 2: this can have traumatic brain injuries. All of this can
43:30
Speaker 2: have an influence on our gut health. So it's not
43:32
Speaker 2: unusual that we don't have the right mix of bacteria
43:36
Speaker 2: and therefore that biological system isn't working the way that
43:40
Speaker 2: it should. And what we're doing when we're giving these
43:43
Speaker 2: specific strains of probiotics is really working at that level
43:47
Speaker 2: of the biological system to get it to function the
43:50
Speaker 2: way it should so that your cravings don't spike, so
43:53
Speaker 2: that you're able to manage your blood sugar, you're able
43:55
Speaker 2: to sort of manage your energy levels better and metabolize
43:58
Speaker 2: things the way that you should. And you mentioned polyphenols,
44:01
Speaker 2: so I mean I can just transition to Pendulum actually
44:04
Speaker 2: has five products that they have pendulum glucose control, they
44:10
Speaker 2: have some pendulum metabolic daily that really is sort of
44:13
Speaker 2: a good daily one to take. I like that people
44:15
Speaker 2: are really trying to manage their energy levels and energy
44:18
Speaker 2: metabolism and you sort of their metabolism rather the GLP
44:22
Speaker 2: one probiotic that I just mentioned that we've really studied.
44:26
Speaker 2: We're doing a large clinical trial now, but in the
44:29
Speaker 2: early work that we did with consumers, that's the one
44:32
Speaker 2: with cravings that I can talk about in a moment.
44:35
Speaker 2: You can certainly purchase acromancia by itself. Then we do
44:39
Speaker 2: have the polyphenol product. And what we did there is
44:44
Speaker 2: is we were intersted in providing products that would support
44:48
Speaker 2: not only probiotics, but the specific strains of probiotic you
44:51
Speaker 2: know that we're discussing today, and that obviously within the
44:53
Speaker 2: pendulum products. And so we actually studied what type of
44:57
Speaker 2: polyphenols a most effective supportive and it turns out that
45:03
Speaker 2: they're polyphenols from pomegranate, green tea, and grape seed. So
45:07
Speaker 2: that's the fifth product. Is this polyphenol product that you know,
45:11
Speaker 2: someone says to me, well, what can I do to
45:13
Speaker 2: help the efficacy of these products? I certainly say, you know,
45:16
Speaker 2: eat a healthy diet, plenty of fiber polyphenols through your diet.
45:20
Speaker 2: But it can be difficult for people we're traveling, we
45:23
Speaker 2: may not always have access to enough fruits and vegetables.
45:26
Speaker 2: I mean, polyphenols are often the things that give our
45:29
Speaker 2: vegetables and fruits color, and you know, sometimes it can
45:33
Speaker 2: be tough to eat a rainbow.
45:35
Speaker 1: Right.
45:36
Speaker 2: When that's the case, we can always supplement with the
45:39
Speaker 2: polyphenols and support the efficacy of these bacteria I take.
45:44
Speaker 1: I just full transparency that good old Atom sent me
45:49
Speaker 1: to try the two products. So he just mentioned the
45:52
Speaker 1: GLP one and the polyphenols, and I take them together.
45:55
Speaker 1: You know, at the beginning, Atom, I didn't know. I
45:58
Speaker 1: always thought you're supposed to pick probiotics on an empty stomach,
46:01
Speaker 1: and then I listened to you, and I guess I
46:04
Speaker 1: didn't read it on the bottle or something. But now
46:06
Speaker 1: I only take them with food, and usually because I
46:10
Speaker 1: don't eat until my first meal is usually like you,
46:12
Speaker 1: around eleven am, so I usually take them back with
46:16
Speaker 1: my first meal now, But gosh, for the first two
46:19
Speaker 1: weeks that I had them, I was taking them right
46:21
Speaker 1: away when I woke up with my empty stomach. Vitamins,
46:25
Speaker 1: So was I ever getting any efficacy on those when
46:29
Speaker 1: I took them on an empty stomach?
46:31
Speaker 2: Oh, you certainly were. Again, as I explained earlier, they
46:33
Speaker 2: are in this vegetarian acid resistant delayed release capsule.
46:39
Speaker 1: Yeah, and tear it.
46:40
Speaker 2: However, you know, like many of our pills, and certainly
46:44
Speaker 2: many of the vitamins that people take, when you do
46:47
Speaker 2: take them with food, there's some additional benefit in terms
46:51
Speaker 2: of helping to get through the stomach and that kind
46:53
Speaker 2: of of a thing. So I get asked this all
46:57
Speaker 2: the time. Just the other day, literally yesterday, someone said, well,
47:01
Speaker 2: what's the best time to take them? And do I
47:03
Speaker 2: need to take them with food? And I said, it's
47:04
Speaker 2: better to take them with food, But the best time
47:07
Speaker 2: to take them is the time you're going to remember
47:08
Speaker 2: to take them, you know, And so don't, right, it's
47:12
Speaker 2: better to take them without.
47:13
Speaker 1: I cannot forget because they are so vital to everything
47:17
Speaker 1: else you do. They're like the foundation, just like the
47:21
Speaker 1: you know, when we're talking about the health of the
47:23
Speaker 1: whole body. The microbione is the foundational influence to everything
47:29
Speaker 1: else that you're going to build on. So it's like
47:32
Speaker 1: I'm at real estate developer. I always you know, look
47:35
Speaker 1: at metaphors and to me, they're like, you know, the
47:39
Speaker 1: concrete of the foundation of a home that you're starting
47:42
Speaker 1: to build. And so yeah, it's just impossible to forget
47:46
Speaker 1: something that's that important. You couldn't build a house without
47:48
Speaker 1: a foundation. So you'd be throwing away all the other
47:52
Speaker 1: products that you're using if you don't get to the
47:55
Speaker 1: healthy microbiome first. And I guess the other question I
48:00
Speaker 1: was wondering about it. I mean I have for you
48:02
Speaker 1: is how do you know when your microbiome is working
48:08
Speaker 1: perfectly well?
48:13
Speaker 2: I might have to turn that question around a little bit,
48:16
Speaker 2: right because I would say, if you're feeling good and
48:18
Speaker 2: your metabolic health is good and overall the other things
48:23
Speaker 2: that we look at within health and prevention of diseases
48:27
Speaker 2: is seems to be in the right place, one might
48:30
Speaker 2: make an assumption that, amongst other things you're doing right,
48:33
Speaker 2: your microbiome is being fed properly and probably in pretty
48:36
Speaker 2: good shape. That doesn't mean that we don't sometimes want
48:39
Speaker 2: to supplement just to make sure that we help to
48:41
Speaker 2: maintain that health. And that's in this case the health
48:44
Speaker 2: of the microbiome. But it's really the other way around,
48:47
Speaker 2: which is how might we suspect there's an issue with
48:50
Speaker 2: our microbiome? And again that's when I go back to
48:53
Speaker 2: are you having issues with metabolic health? Is your sugar
48:56
Speaker 2: is running a little bit high? Are you having issues
48:58
Speaker 2: with craving, You're having fatigue, brain fog, all kinds of issues.
49:03
Speaker 2: Now we're starting to understand the gut brain connection, you know,
49:06
Speaker 2: and how the microbiome is influencing things like how we're
49:10
Speaker 2: feeling emotionally, Are we feeling somewhat depressed, are we feeling anxious?
49:15
Speaker 2: Those are the kind of symptoms and conditions that may
49:18
Speaker 2: indicate that part of the issue may exist within that microbiome.
49:22
Speaker 2: And again, things like the microbiome makes ninety percent of
49:26
Speaker 2: the serotonin or the gut make pardon me, the gut, rather,
49:29
Speaker 2: it makes ninety percent of the serotonin for the body,
49:33
Speaker 2: this important neurotransmitter that influences how we feel emotionally. Many
49:37
Speaker 2: people don't realize that, and so when there's disruptions of
49:40
Speaker 2: the gut, when there's disruptions of the microbiome specifically, it
49:44
Speaker 2: can influence how we're feeling physically, it can influence how
49:47
Speaker 2: we're feeling emotionally, and certainly can influence our physiologic health.
49:51
Speaker 2: You know, things like our glucose and other aspects, even
49:57
Speaker 2: your blood pressure without a debat, so blood pressure is
50:00
Speaker 2: a part of that whole metabolic health. You know, scenario, cholesterol, triglycerides,
50:06
Speaker 2: you know, these sorts of things all are part of
50:09
Speaker 2: the concept of metabolic health and trying to be healthy
50:12
Speaker 2: from a metabolic perspective. And the problem is that I
50:16
Speaker 2: think it's one in three adults have you know, metabolic
50:19
Speaker 2: dysfunction metabolic syndrome, and it's upwards of eighty eight to
50:23
Speaker 2: ninety percent of Americans have some sign of metabolic dysfunction.
50:28
Speaker 2: And why because look around right by and large, you know,
50:34
Speaker 2: we're not eating what we should be eating. And even
50:37
Speaker 2: if we are trying to eat right, there's other things
50:39
Speaker 2: we may be get exposed to, toxins, et cetera. And so
50:42
Speaker 2: it's difficult. It's difficult to live that pristine life in
50:47
Speaker 2: our current sort of environment. And we all should do
50:50
Speaker 2: what we can to maintain our health and maintain the
50:54
Speaker 2: health of our microbiome. And certainly the pillars are eating
50:58
Speaker 2: right and exercising and managing dress and getting sleep and
51:01
Speaker 2: having healthy relationships. But because there's so many factors that
51:07
Speaker 2: are make it difficult for us, you know, to make
51:10
Speaker 2: all the right choices and not get exposed to things
51:13
Speaker 2: which are in the environment many of us, it is
51:16
Speaker 2: important that we also supplement in this case right probiotics.
51:20
Speaker 2: If we're concerned about microbiome health and metabolic health and
51:24
Speaker 2: cravings and the things that we've been discussing.
51:26
Speaker 1: So before we get into the cravings, I just wanted
51:29
Speaker 1: to say that I did have doctor Elizabeth Urs, who's
51:33
Speaker 1: a Bolder Longevity Institute doctor, very very well, highly regarded
51:39
Speaker 1: and just you know, an amazing human being. So she
51:44
Speaker 1: said that what she does is she micro goeses with
51:49
Speaker 1: VLP one agonist with the injection. She's an athlete and
51:55
Speaker 1: she's always you know, obviously looking to manage her metabolic
52:00
Speaker 1: health and her athletic health as a result of course,
52:03
Speaker 1: and and her weight, which is you know who everybody
52:07
Speaker 1: seems to be concerned about that because there's so many
52:10
Speaker 1: there's so many temptations in our environment, and you know,
52:14
Speaker 1: people who are really disciplined like we are, we still
52:17
Speaker 1: have those moments and that's where these cravings come in,
52:20
Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in a second. But anyway, so
52:24
Speaker 1: what do you think about microdosing and could you combine
52:28
Speaker 1: that with your products or is that too much over
52:31
Speaker 1: the top to use GLP one injections along with the
52:35
Speaker 1: g LP one probiotic that and the poly females that
52:40
Speaker 1: the combination that I've been using that you sent me
52:43
Speaker 1: is that is that something that would make a difference
52:46
Speaker 1: or is it too much?
52:49
Speaker 2: So a few comments there. First, want to be very
52:51
Speaker 2: clear that our products and certainly the g LP one probiotic,
52:57
Speaker 2: they're not in the same class. They're not medications and
52:59
Speaker 2: audits same class as these GLP on analog drugs, right,
53:02
Speaker 2: They're not a replacement for those drugs. So, just to
53:04
Speaker 2: be very clear, I've certainly heard of the microdosing. I
53:08
Speaker 2: haven't had any patients that have actually utilized it, so
53:12
Speaker 2: I don't have much firsthand experience with it. I know
53:14
Speaker 2: it is something that people are doing. Similarly, we don't
53:18
Speaker 2: officially recommend or or recommend against taking the probiotics with
53:23
Speaker 2: the medications or in a microdosing sort of scenario. The
53:27
Speaker 2: truth is we haven't studied it, and so I always
53:30
Speaker 2: like to comment from what I understand from the science.
53:32
Speaker 2: We don't have a lot of science here. What I
53:34
Speaker 2: can tell you is we're actually in the middle of
53:37
Speaker 2: an athlete study with one of our products, and so
53:40
Speaker 2: we are very interested in the use of these probiotics
53:43
Speaker 2: in athletes, amongst other things. Very often depending on your
53:47
Speaker 2: degree of exercise. Certainly extremes of exercise like running in
53:50
Speaker 2: ultra marathons, as I may have mentioned earlier, lead to
53:53
Speaker 2: things like leaky gout or increased in no taxemia. There
53:58
Speaker 2: can be mood issues and athletes that can be related.
54:01
Speaker 2: It's felt disturbances in the gut that is influenced by
54:04
Speaker 2: certainly significant exercise. And so this whole gut kind of
54:09
Speaker 2: exercise connection is important and something we're interested in, and
54:14
Speaker 2: as I've said, we're studying.
54:16
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up, because, as
54:18
Speaker 1: I mentioned to you, we're one of our platforms is
54:21
Speaker 1: Muscle and Fitness and they only in the last two
54:25
Speaker 1: years has this magazine that's been known for a century.
54:30
Speaker 1: I mean this is you know, the the Joe Reader
54:34
Speaker 1: and Arnold Schwarzenegger and that whole, and I think they
54:37
Speaker 1: have like a billion subscribers to the magazine. However, they
54:42
Speaker 1: never went digital until two years ago and doctor Bob Goldman,
54:46
Speaker 1: who's the co founder of the American Academy of Anti Aging,
54:51
Speaker 1: getting involved with them. And so I was lucky enough
54:54
Speaker 1: as a podcast host that he had been on my podcast.
54:58
Speaker 1: I've known him for many years, and he called me
55:01
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, we're doing only twenty inaugural
55:06
Speaker 1: podcast on our digital sites, just going live. And this
55:10
Speaker 1: was I think maybe not even two years a year
55:13
Speaker 1: and a half ago. So because we have this big
55:16
Speaker 1: demographic and even psychographic of athletes on ageless and timeless.
55:23
Speaker 1: I always want to steer a conversation towards what's best
55:27
Speaker 1: for athletes, and so the fact that you're doing this study,
55:31
Speaker 1: I really want to know what happens when you're done
55:35
Speaker 1: with the study, if you wouldn't mind, so I could
55:37
Speaker 1: then add that to our show notes for this podcast,
55:41
Speaker 1: or if it's done, you know, next year twenty twenty
55:45
Speaker 1: five or twenty twenty six, we'll have you back on
55:49
Speaker 1: to go over that. But this is really really important
55:51
Speaker 1: stuff that we're you know, really I mean highly interested
55:55
Speaker 1: in knowing the results of that study. And then also,
55:59
Speaker 1: you know, muscle loss is such a big issue that
56:03
Speaker 1: I hear all the time side effects of people who
56:05
Speaker 1: are using the injectable synthetic form of the mangaro or
56:12
Speaker 1: ozembic orgov or you know, all these the ones that
56:18
Speaker 1: are I think there's a new one now called trepenzizide
56:22
Speaker 1: or something like that that people are saying is the
56:25
Speaker 1: hottest new one. But all of these are synthetic, and
56:28
Speaker 1: they're all injectable, and they're all side effects. However, there
56:32
Speaker 1: are people that have been thrilled with the results and
56:36
Speaker 1: look at look at Oprah Winfrey as an example, and
56:39
Speaker 1: that people who have lost so much weight and improve
56:44
Speaker 1: their diet, you know, their type two diabetes as well.
56:47
Speaker 1: So I would never, you know, diminish the impact that
56:51
Speaker 1: they've had. I think they're one of the greatest potential
56:55
Speaker 1: achievements in modern medicine, that if people do it correctly
56:59
Speaker 1: and they exercise, because the muscle loss is real. And
57:03
Speaker 1: in fact, I remember when they first came out. I
57:05
Speaker 1: called my doctor, who was a functional medicine practitioner, and
57:10
Speaker 1: I said, oh, I'd love to take this, and you know,
57:12
Speaker 1: would you allow me? And she said absolutely no. She said,
57:15
Speaker 1: you're already so muscular, and why would you ever want
57:19
Speaker 1: to play with that because you do work out, You've
57:21
Speaker 1: always been an athlete, and don't tamper with what's good
57:26
Speaker 1: just to lose five pounds because you know, I don't
57:28
Speaker 1: know too many women that wouldn't want to lose at
57:31
Speaker 1: least five pounds, and so I put myself in that category.
57:34
Speaker 1: So anyway, she said absolutely no, And I don't like
57:38
Speaker 1: I don't take any pharmaceutical drugs anyway, so I, you know,
57:42
Speaker 1: purist in that regard. But when I heard I think
57:46
Speaker 1: I told you the story. I was at apho or
57:47
Speaker 1: Am and Pendulum was one of the exhibitors. I went
57:50
Speaker 1: up to the booth was mobbed, and when I went
57:53
Speaker 1: up there and they said, here, here's a bottle of
57:57
Speaker 1: one of our products. At that time, it was giving
58:00
Speaker 1: away the Accamensia, just singular bottle. So that's how I
58:05
Speaker 1: first knew about you. And of course I loved it
58:08
Speaker 1: that Colleen, when you know the CEO is a woman,
58:11
Speaker 1: and you know I read her background and I will
58:13
Speaker 1: have her on it at one point. But so so
58:18
Speaker 1: long story one ways say that you know there are
58:20
Speaker 1: side effects, and so happy that you have the GLP
58:24
Speaker 1: one probiotic combined with the polyphenos which I think is
58:28
Speaker 1: so much healthier because it's not a you know, just
58:31
Speaker 1: as you said, it's not a drug. And so I
58:34
Speaker 1: just want people to know. But before because I just
58:37
Speaker 1: got flashed, and I know we were going to talk
58:39
Speaker 1: about the cravings issue. But those products will help you
58:44
Speaker 1: with cravings. I don't seem to have too many craves.
58:46
Speaker 1: I do love dark chocolate, which is a good craving.
58:50
Speaker 1: But I'm not one of those people that you know
58:52
Speaker 1: has issues with overeating. Out of stress or in fact,
58:56
Speaker 1: I usually would go the other way. So I feel
58:58
Speaker 1: really lucky that these products are more too over the
59:02
Speaker 1: top help and know that they're you know that they're
59:06
Speaker 1: just going to improve what might already be in very
59:09
Speaker 1: good shape. But not everybody is in that camp. And
59:14
Speaker 1: the good thing is that it doesn't affect your muscles
59:16
Speaker 1: at all, only to help you because you're you know
59:19
Speaker 1: you're it actually helps when it helps to diminish your
59:23
Speaker 1: your appetite, it also helps you to increase your energy level.
59:29
Speaker 2: It.
59:29
Speaker 1: You know, you would think if you were starving yourself,
59:32
Speaker 1: like sometimes with intermittent fasting, if you fast too long,
59:35
Speaker 1: you are getting muscle wasting. But with this product, these
59:39
Speaker 1: products that you have with pendulum, that doesn't happen. So anyway,
59:45
Speaker 1: before we have to go, I just want you to
59:47
Speaker 1: tell us, okay, tell us about the cravings really quickly
59:50
Speaker 1: and how this will scientifically how you your products affect
59:54
Speaker 1: the cravings.
59:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, quickly. Then we did a study with consumers and
1:00:01
Speaker 2: this was on the GLP one probiotic product, and we
1:00:05
Speaker 2: measured they started taking the product and we measured their
1:00:10
Speaker 2: cravings at baseline with this validated questionnaire that looks at
1:00:14
Speaker 2: cravings and then at six weeks, and what we found
1:00:18
Speaker 2: was that ninety one percent of people taking the GLP
1:00:20
Speaker 2: one probiotic had a significant reduction in cravings. Interestingly, if
1:00:25
Speaker 2: they had higher cravings at baseline, they tended to see
1:00:28
Speaker 2: a greater reduction. And this questionnaire actually looks at cravings
1:00:32
Speaker 2: in four different areas, and all of those areas had
1:00:34
Speaker 2: significant reductions. It was sugars, it was starches, it was
1:00:40
Speaker 2: high fat foods, and it was high fat fast foods.
1:00:43
Speaker 2: Actually looks at fast foods as well, and so within
1:00:45
Speaker 2: every one of those areas there were significant reductions in cravings.
1:00:49
Speaker 2: So we're now sort of using that info. But as
1:00:53
Speaker 2: I've said earlier, we're actually doing a much more robust
1:00:56
Speaker 2: clinical trial and looking at all kinds of outcomes. So
1:00:59
Speaker 2: as you've said, I mean, not only with the athlete study,
1:01:01
Speaker 2: but with all of our research. First of all, we
1:01:04
Speaker 2: intend to publish, but second of all, you know, I'd
1:01:07
Speaker 2: love to come back on and discuss all those findings.
1:01:09
Speaker 2: I mean, it's really one of the main reasons I
1:01:12
Speaker 2: went to the company, beyond I was seeing so much
1:01:14
Speaker 2: efficacy in my clinical practice, was the commitment to the
1:01:17
Speaker 2: research because half of my job is doing this, but
1:01:20
Speaker 2: the other half, or even the majority of it is
1:01:23
Speaker 2: is overseeing our clinical research. And we have all kinds
1:01:26
Speaker 2: of studies going on that were supporting and sponsering. So
1:01:29
Speaker 2: it's exciting, right.
1:01:31
Speaker 1: Well, if Tony, if our CEO is listening, I hope
1:01:35
Speaker 1: he'll flash your website on the screen because I did
1:01:38
Speaker 1: want people to know that you've so generously offered our
1:01:42
Speaker 1: viewers a twenty percent discount. So you'd have to go
1:01:47
Speaker 1: to pendulum Life, right, pendulumlife dot dot com and type
1:01:53
Speaker 1: in ageless. He's already Adam has already set up a
1:01:56
Speaker 1: code for us, and that's it, right, That's all you
1:02:00
Speaker 1: have to do is that's your coupon code and you
1:02:02
Speaker 1: get twenty percent off of your products.
1:02:05
Speaker 2: They're twenty percent off of I think your first membership
1:02:08
Speaker 2: board or something like that, but it is twenty percent.
1:02:11
Speaker 2: And you know, we also have a lot more information
1:02:13
Speaker 2: on the pendulumlife dot com website. Yeah, a lot of
1:02:16
Speaker 2: our sciences. There even information on clinical trials that were
1:02:19
Speaker 2: involved in and some protocols for healthcare providers and others
1:02:24
Speaker 2: things like that. But if people are interested, they can
1:02:27
Speaker 2: go to that website and as you've said, use the
1:02:30
Speaker 2: code ageless and try it for themselves.
1:02:34
Speaker 1: Well, Adam, I knew that. You know, we could talk
1:02:37
Speaker 1: forever because we just have that chemistry. And I love
1:02:40
Speaker 1: the energy between us, and I love that you've been
1:02:43
Speaker 1: so much of a front runner and in health span
1:02:48
Speaker 1: and lifespan and knowing so early on in your career
1:02:53
Speaker 1: when you were really just a med school graduate that
1:02:57
Speaker 1: you were going to focus on something that was really
1:02:59
Speaker 1: just urging beginning to burgeon and has now grown into
1:03:03
Speaker 1: you know, a full on I guess you would call
1:03:07
Speaker 1: it validated discipline, which is you know, this functional integrative medicine.
1:03:12
Speaker 1: So thank you so much for being with us today,
1:03:15
Speaker 1: and I hope you have a wonderful weekend.
1:03:18
Speaker 2: Oh thank you you as well, and thank you for
1:03:20
Speaker 2: doing this kind of a podcast. It's so important to
1:03:23
Speaker 2: get people sort of reliable information that they can use
1:03:26
Speaker 2: to make their healthcare decisions. So I really appreciate what
1:03:28
Speaker 2: you're doing and.
1:03:29
Speaker 1: I couldn't do it without people like you, So I
1:03:32
Speaker 1: feel very honored. So thank you so much, Adam. Take
1:03:35
Speaker 1: care you as well. Okay, bye bye