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Monday Mini: Problematic Insults · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: I've never told your protection of I heart radio. So
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: I'm going to be real honest with you listeners. And Samantha,
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: I have been putting this one off for a long time.
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: I've wanted to talk about it for a long time,
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: but I'm nervous to talk about it. I think we
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: should talk about it, though, because it's about problematic insults.
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: But one of the reasons I really don't want to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: talk about it, but I feel like we've got to
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: talk about it is because Trump and I hate that
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: guy and I hate talking about him. And it's like
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: I lied awake at night thinking about this and just
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: thinking like, oh no, oh, I don't want to do it,
• 0:51
  Speaker 1: but we're gonna do it, okay. And I just want
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: to know, like if it's not obvious, please No, I'm
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: not ever defending him ever, never know. But I just
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: think that a lot of the insults I see used
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: against him, while maybe very very satisfying, are extremely problematic. Yeah,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: so we're just gonna talk about that for a minute.
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Also another note, I understand there's a history of racist, homophobic,
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: abilists and sex sistlers and insults that are horrifically problematic.
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: That's not what we're really talking about, UM, because I
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: feel like that stuff is people do it because they're terrible,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: But it's more like we all a lot of us
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: are like, that's terrible, don't do it. I'm talking about
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: more of the mainstream popular stuff we see, like from comedians,
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: talked to hosts, like everybody, um about about this is
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: just the most high profile thing I could think of. Um.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: I just wanted to talk about it because I think
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: a lot of us to hate this guy, and for
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: very good reason. But the way that people are using,
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: the insults they're using around him are damaging other people. Right,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: there's a social responsibility as someone who can have commentary
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: about not liking or disliking any specific things, policies, politics,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: all of that, attitudes actions that we really don't have
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to do where we're damaging other people who also dislike
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: this person. Like that's a thing and we should be
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: very cognizant of that in general. Yeah. Yeah, And so
• 2:28
  Speaker 1: one of the big ones I've seen our physical insults UM,
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: in particular fat phobia. And again, I know it's it's
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: hard because it bothers him and you want to bother him.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: But the messages that being fat or overweight is bad
• 2:44
  Speaker 1: and that's not a good message, and a lot of
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: people are taking that in and hearing people laugh about it,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: hearing it used in this way where it's an insult
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: and picking that upright and seeing that, yeah, we're laughing
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: about it. So that's not good. This is so like,
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: because I agree it's not good, but I just hate
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: this guy so much. It's so like, oh, but it
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: shouldn't be like that shouldn't be an insult. And in general,
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: I get physical insults make me uncomfortable. Yeah, and we've
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: talked about I mean, it is definitely also a double
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: standard when because this gets used against women all the time,
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: physical insults all like, that's probably people's go to. I
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: just think because this is a public figure that people
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: hate so much, they're sort of forgetting that it doesn't
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: stop just because you hate that person. That's still harmful narrative. Yeah,
• 3:47
  Speaker 1: and you know, I think the problem with this is,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: as you were saying, this is something that gets under
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: his skin. So therefore people really want to use a
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: personal blow because we know at least it's going to
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: bother him as well. As the fact that oftentimes your reaction,
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: especially because people like him with his UH tactics in general,
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: go for the low blow, and so we meet him
• 4:11
  Speaker 1: there as well. And I've talked about it before with
• 4:15
  Speaker 1: like TikTok stars who use this tactic too, and I'm like, yeah, finally,
• 4:19
  Speaker 1: for me, it's both of those things, like, finally you're
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: going after them for what they're doing. You're meeting them
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: to their standards. But it shouldn't have to be that way.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of conversation back and forth because I
• 4:30
  Speaker 1: have an internal conflict with that as well, because I'm like,
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: I'm not skinny, and I've definitely been called chunky like
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: in many ways, and it hurts my feelings a whole lot,
• 4:39
  Speaker 1: like for the longest time, because I saw that narrative
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: as so like a negative that I it would hurt
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: my feelings. Even now, I'm very self conscious of it,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: even though I've become more aware of myself and more
• 4:48
  Speaker 1: confident in myself, and I'm like, you know what, I
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: don't love this necessarily because I've been taught I shouldn't
• 4:53
  Speaker 1: love this. But at the same time, I have to
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: weigh that to the fact that I'm actually happy and healthy,
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: Like I've gone to the doctor and I'm still mine.
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: So I'm like, so what is this? But having to
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: change their mindset and altogether it is also this whole
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: conversation we're having and that this is not the row
• 5:09
  Speaker 1: we should be going. But it's easy when to take,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: especially when they're the ones that seem to be doing
• 5:14
  Speaker 1: it first, and you really want to go after it,
• 5:16
  Speaker 1: you really do, and it's easy to do. But also
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: I think most people are smaller enough to see that
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: the truth in itself, it's sort of an insult, Like
• 5:26
  Speaker 1: there's factual things that we can insult, like not not
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: necessarily about body and image and of that, just like
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: the things that he has said, the things that he
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: is doing, the things that we are like what what
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: is it wrong with you? His own like past history. Yeah, definitely,
• 5:40
  Speaker 1: there's plenty two truths from there. Um. But I am
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: glad you brought that up because there has been a
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: reclaiming of of words like fats um and so I
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: think that's important to mention too. But it is I
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: feel like a lot of people using it are not
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: using it in that way. They're using it because they
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: think it is an insult, and it is bad, right,
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: It's definitely uses. Its weaponized for sure, and it's according
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: to who was coming from. Again, I don't think there's
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: a lot of people who are going to tell you
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: that they're fine with that word fat or overweight or
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: obese or any of those things. But in the end,
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: it's not really ours to claim when we're talking about
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: other people. That makes sense, Yes, yes, yes, absolutely, and
• 6:29
  Speaker 1: there are another double standard. I want to talk about this,
• 6:31
  Speaker 1: and this is actually what inspired this. I'm just gonna
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: show you how long I put off this episode when
• 6:36
  Speaker 1: we were talking about strategic incompetence, but even before that,
• 6:39
  Speaker 1: when we were talking about um kind of the stereotypical
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: sitcom hetero relationship of a fat man with a thin
• 6:46
  Speaker 1: woman and how that sends a message as well in
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: terms of like one of these is more acceptable less
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: sad um. So like, yeah, basically the message there is
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: a fat woman is sadder than a fat man, right,
• 7:06
  Speaker 1: and more acceptable. Fat man is more acceptable than fat woman.
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: So that's also something we have to think about when
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: we're using these and who it's impacting, these insults, who
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: it's impacting, and that makes me really angry, just to
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: type it and just say it UM. But that is
• 7:21
  Speaker 1: I mean, that's what we talked about. You never it's
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: almost always that dynamic. I mean, that's even taught in
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: specific cultures, Christian culture. I've talked about it before with
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: the famous author Elizabeth Elliott, who was a big Christian
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: author who was talking about purity essentially um and has
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: a like she has sold millions and millions of millions
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: of dollars worth of UH copies. I think she's gone now,
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: but that was one of our things, was like, if
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: you want to keep your man happy, you should be
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: thin um. And if you're not doing that, you are
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: not fulfilling your wifely duties. Like this level of standard
• 7:55
  Speaker 1: that really pushed into Christian women, that there was a
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: perfection level and your weight in your body and your
• 8:04
  Speaker 1: sexualfe all the things that are so pushed against us
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: to the detriment of women's self esteem and worth, Like
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: their worth is based on if they can please their husband,
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: and these are the things that pleases the husband. But
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: there's no narrative for the man except should be a leader,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: which is a misogynistic ideal in any way. It brings
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: a lot of violence out but that's that conversation, is
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: that this level that is like ingrained into so many
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: women who really feel like this is their godly slash
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: just duty in general. Right. Yeah, that's something we've talked
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: about a lot about how religion, and particularly Christian religion
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: here and morality got all tied up with wait for women, um,
• 8:45
  Speaker 1: and we still see that um. Something else I wanted
• 8:49
  Speaker 1: to mention is able is um, which again, like I
• 8:53
  Speaker 1: never want to make it sound wise, we're talking about
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: this as a feminist podcast, we get a lot of
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: terrible insults and a lot of problem insults, Like that's
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: part of the problem is that like Trump is ablest.
• 9:08
  Speaker 1: He's shown it, said it, done it, and beyond and
• 9:14
  Speaker 1: beyond like terrible and he is a terrible person. But
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: I've seen people use ablest language to insult the right. Right,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: is really insulting to those people who are in the
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: disabled community who have done so much good, uh and
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: have continued to do so good. And yeah, again it's
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: just that negative, really harmful, and we mean harmful as
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: in causing violence against these communities. We are being literal
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: when we say harmful, not just metaphorically. Oh it hard,
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: the feelings, no, it is getting key people killed. And
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: this ablest trope is absolutely it was as well as
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: everything else. But I feel like, yeah, it kind brought
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: on this whole like shining light because he was, for
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: better or for words, like very open about his able ism,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: very open about his racism, very open about his classism
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: and sexism, like this is not hiding it one bit,
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: and it was. It brings harm, physical violent harm onto
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: these communities and we have to be aware of that.
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: And the able ism was one of the biggest up
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: there because he used it for all the things, Like
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: he used that language in so many ways. He used
• 10:31
  Speaker 1: that language to actually go after a disabled a journalist.
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: He uses a language in general when he just didn't
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: like someone caused his constituents that way, like talking about
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: their intelligence, and then he went after his own coworkers,
• 10:45
  Speaker 1: other politicians, those who are supposed to be on his side,
• 10:48
  Speaker 1: like he went after them and used absolute ablest language
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: when he could think of nothing else because if they
• 10:53
  Speaker 1: were known as sis hetero white man, he had nothing
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: else but to make up things and using ablest language,
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: right yeah, yeah, and and something else if you just
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: opened like more doors for me, that this is gosh um.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: Because there's also I get uncomfortable when I see people
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: making fun of Malania's accents and in general, a lot
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: of women in Trump's orbit, who again I do not like.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: I don't like what they've done. I get it, but
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: we're using stuff that's harmful to other people. So I've
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: seen a lot of like sexism about what I like
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: her past um, Stormy Daniels. There's a lot of sexism.
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: And this is coming from like people who are you know,
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: a liberal or democratic or they're making fun exactly exactly,
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: and so I just gosh, this is so hard to
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: talk about because I'm just like, I know it's because
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: they use this stuff and they use it against like
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: people like you and I. Right, but it's not right
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: for us to use it in response, even though they
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: deserve to be punished and they're not getting punished. They
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: deserved to be called out, and they get called out
• 12:13
  Speaker 1: and nothing like. Right. That's the thing is that we
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: don't want to continue to perpetuate the negativity they have
• 12:19
  Speaker 1: spurned upon us. And I say they, I mean those
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: who want to continue in this supremacy. Um, don't get
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: me wrong, Like, I absolutely hate my voice. So when
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: people criticize my voice, okay, but I also want to
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: be like, you know, this is the language thing, right.
• 12:34
  Speaker 1: You know, I spoke Korean until I was eight, learned
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: a completely different accent, and trying to like adapt is
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: a whole hard thing. Also, like, big ups to everybody
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: who was in this industry who are actual voice actors.
• 12:46
  Speaker 1: That takes talent and I'm not there yet. That's a
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: whole different conversation. But yeah, I'm not gonna tell you
• 12:52
  Speaker 1: you're being racist or that you're being uh prejudiced without
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: knowing that you're being prejudiced, because that seems like a stretch.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: But you need to understand why my voice and my
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: speech sound like this. As the person on this end,
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: I hate it too. I hate my voice also, so
• 13:10
  Speaker 1: you know it only feeds into that. But yeah, absolutely
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: goes into that same narrative of I do not love
• 13:16
  Speaker 1: that Milannia is sitting here and elevating Trump as if
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: he is the savior of a country. But and yes,
• 13:27
  Speaker 1: there are many faults with that, But to attack her
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: if she was involved in sex work, that's not something
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: we need to do. Uh, to attack her because she
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: has an accent that's not us and by the way
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: the US does not have one concrete accent, as we
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: all know, there's different dialects as well as the fact
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: that US made up of many cultures that came as
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: a young country still that's come together, and this is
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: that narrative. They want to feel that you should that
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: sound one way. We don't want to add to that.
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: We don't want to add to that. I know it's
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: hard going that higher road quote unquote, and I'm angry
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: about that because it doesn't feel like it's getting anywhere.
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: So it feels like the people that we have pushed
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: to put in to fight for us are too polite
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: to a certain extent. But there's a difference in doing
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: it correctly and in doing it in a way that's
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: not beneficial and only looking out for yourself. Yes, yes,
• 14:21
  Speaker 1: because as you said, like, there's plenty of other stuff
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: to go after, right, And that's actually factual that has
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: gone downly. If we want to talk about Trump and
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: his policies and how that he literally gutted policies that
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: to protect women, let's talk about that he literally gutted
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: to protect marginalized communities. Let's go after that. If we
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the fact that he has opened
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: up the platform for supremacists who come out and be proud.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, because that in itself is bad.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: I know not everybody agrees with that, or people have
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: conspiracy theories, but we can talk about that in their selves. Again,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: there are own moments that I want to take the
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: low road as well, especially when it comes to sexist
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: men and calling out there high uh standards that that
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: will never be met because they don't deserve those standards.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: And I'm going to let the people who are good
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: at it do it, but I think we need to
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: be careful in on understanding what this can do when
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: it comes to uh, the larger picture and who is
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: actually hurting. Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's a great
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: point too, because I know here's the whole argument about
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like comedy and public figures and all of that, but
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: I just think there's there's a way to do it
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: that doesn't hurt a bunch of other people are hurt.
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: Can they stop pretending like comedians should get a get
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: out of jail card for this situation, because no, just
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: because they were allowed to get away with it doesn't
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: mean we shouldn't be able to call it out and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: those people who are let your ruining jokes, you need
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: a better sense of humor because your sense of humor
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: is based on racism, sexism, misogyny and any of the
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: other isms. Yeah, exactly, good dude, there's plenty of funny things,
• 16:05
  Speaker 1: and I promise yes, I'm not gonna lie like only
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: murders in the building. We watched it. There's some moments
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: that I'm like, oh, could be careful now, but like
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: the slapstick comedy that Martin Short and Steve Martin have
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: done from the past, they bring it back a little
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: bit and I'm like, this is hilarious. It's hilarious. Yes, yes,
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: and their legends. Yes, not currently a sponsored but I
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: am excited to check it out. So yeah. And I
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: also get like, I get the knee jerk wanting to
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: especially with evangelical voters who are like, oh Trump, and
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: then you were like, but look at what he's done.
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: But that's still hurting. I get it. But it's hurting
• 16:52
  Speaker 1: like the wrong people to think that he's done other
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: than they think they've saved babies. Oh well, just like
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: trying to uh point out he's had an affair, Like
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: they're not going to change their minds um, So yeah,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: they're not going to change their mind and it's just
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: hurting other people. Um. And also, like I've seen with
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: putin a lot of homophobic rhetoric around him. So yeah,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: I get I get I don't know. This is some
• 17:25
  Speaker 1: kind I get it. I get it, but be careful
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: think about it. And I really think if you're adding
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: to a toxic narrative already and I know it secks
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: because they do it, but that doesn't mean we should
• 17:36
  Speaker 1: do it. I mean again, I'm going to come put
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: this back to me because I'm that self centered. The
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: adoption trope that was happening with the memes, that's a
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: prime example. It's not as cute as you think it is.
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: And I know who you think you're getting back at
• 17:53
  Speaker 1: is that conservative group, but it's not. Yeah, it's not. Yeah,
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: that's exactly exactly it. Yep. Okay, all right, Well and Goad,
• 18:02
  Speaker 1: we talked about this. I'm glad you brought it up.
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: I hope you never because I feel like, if nothing else,
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: we have to have a reality check where we are,
• 18:11
  Speaker 1: what we're going, and how our language affects people. Yes, yes,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: and I don't want to it's something that just I
• 18:19
  Speaker 1: would hear jokes and it would just like make me
• 18:22
  Speaker 1: cringe and I it was against somebody. I hated that.
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: I was still like, but it's not just against him. Yeah,
• 18:30
  Speaker 1: so it's been on my mind. I hope, I hope
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: we made this coherent and you're not like outraged at us,
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: because if it's not clear, we don't like a lot
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: of people, any of these people we talked about, but um,
• 18:42
  Speaker 1: we didn't need to talk about it. As always, if
• 18:44
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