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Robert Rodriguez (2025) - Instinct and Committing to a Body of Work · The Joe Rogan Recap

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Welcome to the Joe Rogan recap. Today, we're diving deep into a
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really, truly inspiring conversation.
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It's between Joe Rogan and the filmmaker Robert Rodriguez.
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Yeah, this is from episode hashtag 2310 of the Joe Rogan
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Experience. Really fantastic stuff.
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Absolutely. And our mission really is to
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explore Rodriguez's extraordinary journey.
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You know how he went from making El Mariachi, that tiny budget
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like $7000 incredible, all the way to, well, Hollywood success?
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We're here to kind of distill the key insights, he shared.
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Yeah, focusing on creativity, definitely, and how he overcame
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obstacles. And that big one, trusting your
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instincts. It seems like the theme weaving
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through it all is how you know resourcefulness and just gut
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feelings can lead to these big creative breakthroughs, not just
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in film, but anywhere. Such a rich conversation packed
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with these great anecdotes and and practical advice that you
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the learner and really take away and maybe apply.
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OK, so let's unpack this starting with the legend right?
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The $7000 film El Mariachi and the whole mindset behind his
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book Rebel Without a Crew. The key thing here isn't just
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the crazy low budget. Although that's definitely part
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of it. Oh, for sure.
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But it's how that resourcefulness, like born out
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of pure necessity, how that can actually lead to groundbreaking
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work. You know, maybe think about the
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constraints you're facing right now.
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Could they actually be like your biggest created asset?
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Well, what's fascinating is just the sheer audacity, isn't it?
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Making a feature film for basically nothing?
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Yeah, and the fact that El Mariachi clicked, that it
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resonated so deeply and still inspires film makers, it just
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shows. It wasn't only about being
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thrifty. He had a clear vision,
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compelling storytelling. Budget doesn't always dictate
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impact, clearly. Absolutely.
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And Rebel Without a Crew, that book, it wasn't just a making
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up. He really wanted to demystify
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the whole process. Right.
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He called it his impossible story and wanted to share it to
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encourage others, you know, people who felt like the film
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industry was just this locked fortress.
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He. Was basically saying look if I
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could pull this off maybe you can too.
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And if we broaden that out a bit, that early experience, it
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just hammers home the importance of following your instinct, even
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if what your instinct is telling you seems, well, ridiculous or
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totally unprecedented. Yeah, he often talks about these
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seemingly random lucky things that happened along the way.
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It's a good reminder, isn't it, that sometimes the best path
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isn't the obvious one, the one everyone else is taking?
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And his initial way of learning filmmaking was just so hands on.
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He decided, OK, I'll be my own film school.
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Yeah, doing everything. Writing, shooting, Directing.
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Lighting, sound, the whole lot by himself.
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It was honestly a brilliant way to learn every single part of
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the craft just by actually doing it, by making something.
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Did he ever mention downsides like learning totally on your
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own like that early on? That's a good point.
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He did touch on, you know, maybe missing out on some networking
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you might get in a traditional film school.
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But he really felt that the immersive thing, the practical
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side of doing it all himself, that was invaluable.
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It probably speed up his learning way faster than just
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studying theory could have. What do you think about that
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trade off formal school versus just jumping in?
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Oh, I definitely see the power in that direct experience.
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And his first goal? It wasn't Hollywood fame or
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anything. No, not at.
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All he was aiming to make these like low budget Spanish language
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action movies specifically for the home video market.
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Right, it was a deliberate choice.
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Learn the ropes under the radar where the stakes felt lower.
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And you have to remember this is when VHS was taking.
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Off great context. So there was this whole new
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market for cheaper genre films. He saw that opening.
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Exactly. He saw an emerging market and a
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chance to just practice, hone his skills without all the
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pressure of the mainstream industry breathing down his
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neck. He figured, well he made an 8
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minute short for 800 bucks, right?
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So scaling that up to an 80 minute feature for around $5000,
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maybe a bit more, it seemed, well, logical to him.
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Ambitious. Maybe, but logical.
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OK, so let's shift gears a bit. How did he actually come up with
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the ideas? This leads to that really
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interesting deck of cards technique he talked about.
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Ah. Yes, this is fascinating.
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He realized how much power there is in the questions we ask
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ourselves. Right.
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He noticed how easy it is to get stuck in these like unempowering
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loops, asking questions like why am I struggling so much?
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Or why am I such a loser? Was his example.
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And those questions, they just naturally lead you to negative
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dead end answers. So he consciously decided to
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flip it to start asking empowering questions instead.
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Exactly like his example. Instead of the loser question,
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ask something like, OK, what are three small things I could
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actually do this week that would positively impact my life and
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maybe even the lives of people around me?
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And he found that asking that kind of question just
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immediately opens up possibilities, potential
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actions. It's a great exercise for
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anyone, really. What's a question you sometimes
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ask yourself that maybe holds you back?
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How could you rephrase it right now to be more empowering?
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It's a powerful shift. He even uses actual index cards.
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Apparently writes these questions down like a physical
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tool to spark ideas for different things.
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Creative projects, business stuff, anything.
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What's really interesting there is the idea that the solutions
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are often already inside us, kind of waiting.
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Yeah, just waiting for the right question to unlock them.
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He sees these empowering questions as a way to actively
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steer your focus towards what's possible instead of just
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dwelling on the roadblocks. And it wasn't just thinking
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positively, right? It was about turning that into
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action. Rodriguez really stressed
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overcoming procrastination. And the idea that the answers
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you really need, they often show up when you're doing the thing,
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not just sitting around planning it forever.
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He quoted Hemingway, didn't he? First draft of Everything is
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shit. Yes, such a vital reminder to
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just embrace the messiness and get started.
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I know I need that reminder sometimes.
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Me too. And this ties into his concept
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of fear forward. He sees that fear of failure not
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as a stop sign, but actually as proof that you're pushing
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yourself, doing something worthwhile.
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Like if you're not a little bit scared, you might be stagnating.
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Pretty much it means you're outside your comfort zone.
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He also used that really cool analogy, the creative spirit.
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Yeah, from his cartoonist days. He realized like once he started
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drawing, it felt like the drawing was happening through
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him. Like he was just the channel.
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Exactly like he was a conduit for some external force, some
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creative energy that needs an outlet and actually rewards you
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once you let it flow. Think about it like like tapping
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into this well of ideas that's bigger than your own conscious
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mind. So your job is just to be a a
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Clear Channel, get rid of the self criticism, the need for it
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to be perfect before you even start.
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That's it. Be a clean pipe as he put it.
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Let go of the ego, the self doubt, the need to control
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everything. Just allow that spirit, that
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energy to flow. And the amazing thing was he
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taught this idea to his kids when they were young.
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And they just got it intuitively.
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Yeah, started making incredible stuff without all the hang ups
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adults usually develop. Use the Rebel Without a Crew TV
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series is another example too. Right challenging film makers
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make a movie. 2 weeks. Tiny crew just like El Mariachi.
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And at first, they were probably overwhelmed right by the limit.
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Totally. But then once they actually
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started filming, their whole idea of what they could actually
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achieve just completely shifted. It just shows the power of
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taking that first leap, doesn't it?
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So many people get stuck because they feel like they need
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everything figured out first. But Rodriguez's point is that
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readiness often comes during the process.
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Just doing it builds momentum and shows you the next step.
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OK, let's move to identity. That powerful advice he gives
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Stop aspiring, start being. That really hit home for me.
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Yeah. This is a big one.
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He really focuses on how we define ourselves.
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His argument is if you call yourself an aspiring filmmaker
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or aspiring writer. You're kind of stuck in wanting
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mode. Exactly.
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You're perpetually wanting, not actually acting like you are
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that thing. So instead just declare it.
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I am a filmmaker. I am a writer.
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He even suggested making business cards, right?
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Listing all the things you want to do.
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Director, cinematographer, Editor, Composer.
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Yeah, like a physical way to cement that identity.
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The idea is if you claim it, your actions will start to line
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up with it naturally. I remember when I finally
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started saying I'm a writer instead of I'm trying to be a
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writer. It genuinely did change my
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mindset it. Connects right back to self
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belief, the language we use. If you consciously choose that
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identity, it gives you this framework, makes you take
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ownership and pursue things with more, well, conviction.
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Definitely. OK, now let's get into the
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slightly more intangible stuff, the muse, the creative process
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itself. Rodriguez has some really
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insightful takes here. Yeah, he talks about that
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feeling. The ideas, the creations.
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They don't just come from our conscious brain, but they flow
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through US somehow. He compared it to musicians or
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comedians, right? Yeah.
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Feeling like they're just tuning a radio.
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Exactly. Tapping into something bigger
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than themselves. And you mentioned the
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frustration when you don't act on those ideas, like the energy
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still there pushing, looking for an outlet.
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He keeps coming back to that idea.
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Be a pipe, clean pipe, a conduit.
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Just let the creative flow happen.
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It's an old idea, the muse, but he connects it with writers like
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Steven Pressfield. That idea of maybe a divine
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element? Yeah, and he admits it might
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sound a little out there, but you hear the same feeling
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described by so many successful creative people.
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It suggests there's something to it, whether you call it mystical
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or just deep subconscious connection.
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You could just think of it as being super immersed, maybe
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focused on a problem and your subconscious makes links you
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weren't aware of. That's another way to look at
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it, definitely. The mechanism might be
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debatable, but the experience seems real for many.
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And he uses that wild technique on set, getting actors to paint.
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Huh. Yes, even if they've never
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painted before, create a portrait of their character.
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Simple stuff. Just let the brush move.
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He mentioned Josh Brolin, Lady Gaga, Bruce Willis, getting
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really into it. And what's amazing is how doing
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that something seemingly unrelated often helps them
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breakthrough acting challenges on set.
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Like engaging a different part of the brain makes them more
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intuitive, less stuck in their heads.
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Precisely. It reminds me of that Miyamoto
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Musashi quote about seeing the way broadly in all things.
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The core principles of creativity can pop up anywhere.
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That is a perfect segue. Actually.
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The next point, instinct versus analysis, and the story of four
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rooms illustrates this so well. Oh, this is such a telling
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anecdote. He agreed to direct a segment
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for 4:00 Rooms, which was an anthology film.
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Knowing full well that anthology films usually don't do great at
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the box office. Right.
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And when Joe asked him if he regretted following his gut on
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that. One, his answer was immediate,
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100% yeah, meaning he 100% followed his instinct and was
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glad he did. Yeah, he basically admitted he
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doesn't rely heavily on complex analysis.
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It's mostly into tuition driving his choices.
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But here's the twist. 4 Rooms wasn't a big hit financially.
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No, it wasn't. But Rodriguez sees it as
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incredibly valuable. He has this amazing philosophy.
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Meticulously study the ashes of your failure.
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Look for the clues, the keys to future success hidden in what
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didn't work. Exactly, and those ashes were
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pretty fertile ground. He realized the characters he
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created for his segment. Antonio Banderas, the family.
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They could be spies. International spies.
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Bingo. That directly sparked the idea
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for Spy Kids. Wow.
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And furthermore, the experience of making a short film for 4:00
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Rooms, even though the whole anthology thing didn't quite
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land, that inspired him to try a different kind of multi story
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film, but with one director guiding it all.
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Which became Sin City which? Became Sin City.
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So what looked like a misstep actually held the seeds for two
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massive successes. It just perfectly illustrates
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that idea. Trust your instincts, even if it
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might lead to a quote UN quote failure, because that failure
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might unlock something totally unexpected.
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Such a powerful lesson there. Go back, look at past failures
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with curiosity. What insights are hidden there?
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OK, let's talk effects, something Rodriguez is famous
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for his inventive visual effects and the role of accidents.
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Yeah, he talked about how his signature explosion shot evolved
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right from the Super resourceful stuff in El Mariachi.
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Using condoms filled with fake blood and squibs I think.
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Something like that to the more polished versions in Desperado.
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But what's cool is how these visual ideas often just
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developed organically, sometimes from improvising on set or
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dealing with unexpected tech limits.
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And he found that audiences often loved those spontaneous
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bits. Yeah, he actually believes that
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smaller budgets and tighter schedules can encourage those
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magic moments. They force you to be more
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resourceful, more open to happy accidents.
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It really goes against the grain of the typical Hollywood way,
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doesn't it? Huge budgets, planning every
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single detail. Totally.
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Rodriguez embraces a more flexible improv style.
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He leaves room for those accidents that can make a film
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feel unique and memorable. OK, let's talk Quentin
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Tarantino, that early collaboration, and how From Dusk
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Till Dawn came about. Right.
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They met at the Toronto Film Festival.
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Both had these films with, let's say, a certain stylized approach
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to violence. A kinship was formed.
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Definitely a lasting friendship and partnership.
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Rodriguez remembered Tarantino reading him early Kill Bill
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scenes while they were making 4 rooms.
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Wow, and the Dusk Till Dawn script itself had a weird back
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story, right? Yeah, it struggled to get made
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initially because people saw it as like 2 movies smashed
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together. Starts as a gritty crime movie.
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And then bam, suddenly it's a vampire horror flicks.
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Studios didn't know what to do with it.
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Not at first, but then Pulp Fiction happened.
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Huge success, changed everything.
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Suddenly unconventional structure was cool.
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Exactly what was a liability became bold and original, and
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Rodriguez saw that shift happening.
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He jumped on it, pushed to get dust Till Dawn, made quickly
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before someone else tried to water down that unique script.
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Smart move. He also mentioned Cheech Marin
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playing multiple parts. Oh yeah, unforgettable.
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Apparently that kind of happened spontaneously in a table read.
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Just shows the value of having comedians around.
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They bring this unexpected energy and brilliance, plus
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keeps things light on set. Rodriguez's willingness to just
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go for unorthodox ideas, trust his gut, even when it defied the
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norms. It really paid off with Dust
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Till Dawn. It's such a cult classic now.
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OK, let's shift focus a bit. Rodriguez made a huge decision
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early on not going to Hollywood, staying in Austin, TX.
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Yeah, a very deliberate choice, and it had massive ripple
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effects by setting up his filmmaking base in Austin.
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He wasn't just making movies for himself.
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No, he helped build a whole infrastructure there.
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He played a big part in changing the local film workforce, which
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was apparently mostly geared towards westerns before him.
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He described it almost like like he knew it was the right path,
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like he'd walked it many times before.
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A real gut feeling. It really speaks to having a
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strong inner compass, a clear sense of purpose beyond just
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making the next film. His whole Austin story is just a
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great example for creatives everywhere, right?
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You don't necessarily have to be in LA or New York.
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Absolutely. You can build your own creative
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ecosystem, generate opportunities right where you
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are, foster innovation in your own community.
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Rodriguez also talked about mentorship, some key moments of
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inspiration. Yeah, one really stood out.
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Mario. His dad's.
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Friend who told him when he was just 16.
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That he was creative, yes, but he also needed to be technical.
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He needed both sides. And that advice just stuck with
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him, shaped his whole approach. And that other bit of advice,
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cut down your need list to 0. Yes, just start with what you
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have right now. Don't wait until you have the
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perfect gear or all the money. That's the essence of Rebel
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Without a Crew, isn't it? Totally.
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He also talked about owning your identity, pushing back against
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too much self deprecation. The cabbage thrower analogy.
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Right. Don't be the person on stage
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throwing cabbage at yourself. Often you're your own worst
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critic. And he mentioned using the idea
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of a baseline to handle setbacks, like reset to your
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baseline instead of letting a failure send you spiraling down.
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It's a healthier way to frame things.
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This connects nicely to the idea of peers who you surround
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yourself with proximity. Rodriguez really stressed this
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intentionally. Put yourself around people who
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are achieving more, operating at a higher level.
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It pushes you, keeps you learning.
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Absolutely. It creates the stimulating
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environment. You learn just by watching,
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interacting. He mentioned his experiences
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with James Cameron. Right contrasting styles,
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Cameron Redesigning whole systems.
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While Rodriguez is like how can I Max out the gear I already
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have. Both valid, but you learn from
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seeing different approaches he. Called it the proximity
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phenomenon. Just being near talented people,
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you kind of absorb things like that.
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Painting class example with Sebastian Kruger.
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Yeah, and he also reflected on how El Mariachi's success itself
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became inspiring. It showed others what was
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possible, broke down some barriers.
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It really makes you think about who you spend your time with,
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doesn't it? Seek out environments that
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challenge and inspire you. Don't always be the smartest
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person in the room. Well said.
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OK, let's touch on some passion projects.
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You mentioned remaking Conan the Barbarian and Frank Frizzetta's
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Fire and Ice. Oh yeah, you could hear the
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passion in his voice. He loves Robert E Howard's
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original Conan stories and Frizzetta's artwork.
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That visceral, iconic style. Totally.
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He felt Jason Momoa really captured that raw physicality of
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Conan best, and he even envisioned a whole trilogy
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following Conan through different stages of his life.
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And fire and ice. He really wants to bring
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Frazetta's paintings to life. Yeah, similar to how he tackled
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Frank Miller's style in Sin City, it shows this deep respect
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he has for visual artists and wanting to translate their
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unique visions to film. It's cool to hear about those
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long term ambitions, the things that really fire him up
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personally. Definitely gives you insight
17:57
into his artistic drive. Speaking of drive, it's
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interesting where he finds daily inspiration, his personal gym.
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Yeah, not what you might expect, but he keeps the original Drew
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Struzan painting for First Blood there like a.
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Reminder to push himself. Seems like it.
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And also a photo of that legendary Olympic wrestler
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Alexander Carolyn. Just a daily visual cue to
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strive for excellence. He even mentioned conversations
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with Stallone, encouraging him to get back into directing Rocky
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and Rambo. Yeah, apparently played a part
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in Stallone's directing comeback.
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Shows how inspiration can be a two way St.
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And his dedication to his workout routine, it kind of
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underscores that link between physical discipline and creative
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energy doesn't. It yeah, mind and body
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connection. Let's wrap up with family,
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working with his kids, building a legacy.
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This seemed really important to him, collaborating on films with
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his children. It's not just about making
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movies, it's about imparting life lessons, practical skills.
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He shared that great story about his son Racer during a tough
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shoot. Saying I imagined I had one
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already. Just visualizing success.
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Such a powerful mindset tool for anyone facing a challenge.
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It really is and they started their own production company
19:09
together. Doubler made We Could Be Heroes
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for Netflix which they Co wrote did really well.
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It's a great example of nurturing creativity within a
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family, building something together that lasts.
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Rodriguez also talked about imperfection.
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Again, the value of flaws, even accidents.
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Yeah, his take is that audiences connect with flawed things
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because we're flawed. Perfect isn't always relatable.
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And those accidents on set, they can be magic, unexpected moments
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that just resonate. He even builds his productions
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to kind of invite those moments. Smaller budgets, tighter
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schedules. Right, leaving room for
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serendipity. And his willingness to work with
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controversial talent is interesting, too.
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Yeah, he seems to prioritize the talent itself over industry,
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politics or controversy. He mentioned working with Mel
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Gibson, Steven Seagal, Charlie Sheen, Lindsay Lohan and.
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Michael Parks and Dusk Till Dawn, right?
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Yeah, based on Tarantino's recommendation.
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Exactly, he seems open to giving people chances based on their
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ability. And he finished up by talking
20:06
about sharing knowledge, How rewarding it is to see others
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take what you've shared and build on it.
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That really seems core to who he is, that generosity, sharing his
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experiences. It's why Rebel Without a Crew
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was so impactful. It created this positive
20:22
feedback loop of creativity. So OK, let's bring it back.
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What does all this mean for you, the learner?
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Well, Rodriguez's journey, it's just this powerful testament,
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isn't it? Passion, taking action, trusting
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your gut even when you don't have it all figured out.
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Those are the keys to breaking through.
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Yeah, his whole emphasis on doing, learning by doing,
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embracing the stumbles, viewing failure is just more data.
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It's really refreshing, especially when we're often told
20:49
to plan everything perfectly first.
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It takes the pressure off of it, doesn't it?
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It really does. Think about that mantra.
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Stop aspiring, start being. What identity do you want to
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just own starting today? What impossible story could you
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start writing just by taking that first step, claiming it?
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And reflect on your own instincts.
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Was there a time you had a strong gut feeling?
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Did you follow it or ignore it? What happened?
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Could you look back at something you considered a failure and
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maybe find some hidden opportunities like Rodriguez did
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with four rooms? This deep dive into Robert
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Rodriguez, his whole resourceful, instinct driven
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world give you so much food for thought.
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We definitely encourage you check out the book Rebel Without
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a Crew. Maybe watch some of his films
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again with this new perspective. Think about the ingenuity behind
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them. So the learner, the question is
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what will you create?