Latest / The James Granstrom Podcast - Super Soul Model series / Leading Under Pressure: What 108,000 Fans Can Teach You About Leadership | Jay Paterno

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Leading Under Pressure: What 108,000 Fans Can Teach You About Leadership | Jay Paterno · The James Granstrom Podcast - Super Soul Model series

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_02: Behind every great team is a culture, and behind every culture is great leadership.
• 0:07
  SPEAKER_02: Today's guest has lived and breathed both for decades at one of America's most storied sporting institutions, Penn State.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_02: This is a conversation about leadership, character, legacy, and the lessons that extend far beyond the football field.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_02: Enjoy the episode.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_02: Hello, and welcome to the James Grandson Podcast Super Soul Model Series.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: This week we are joined by Jay Paterno, who's an author, leadership expert, and respected voice in the world of college athletics.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_02: Son of the legendary Penn State coach Joe Paterno, Jay has spent more than two decades coaching at the highest level of college football, including 17 years at Penn State and counting.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_02: His latest book Blitz is the all-out pressure of college football's new era, which explores the profound changes of reshaping modern sport from athlete empowerment to NIL deals.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_02: Today, Jay is a sought-after speaker, writer, and commentator who brings a unique perspective on leadership, resilience, culture building, and what it takes to perform under high pressure and create success.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_02: This week's guest, Jay Patano.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_02: Welcome, Jay.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: Great to be here.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jay, I'm going to say straight up, just so that we have a little positioning here.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: I've got to say I'm not an American football chap, somebody who's literally lived and breathed it like your good self.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_02: I have other sports that I absolutely love here in Europe.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: And I know college football is such a big thing in the States.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I have to apologize straight away.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm really interested in the human side of what you bring to the table.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I know you bring a lot of leadership, resilience, empowerment, and what it takes to actually perform under pressure.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: So today we're going to try and tap into some of that aspect of the things that you have been doing for over two decades now.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_02: So for someone like me who isn't deeply familiar with college football, help us understand this environment that you've grown up in.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, let me give you an example at Penn State.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: So on a Saturday, you know, seven, you know, we played 12 games a year.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: And on the uh in the regular season, and then you have playoffs or whatever it may be.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: But uh when we play at home at Penn State, there's 107, 108,000 people in the stands.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: For a big game, there's 15 to 20 million, maybe as many as 15 to 20 million people watching on TV.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: So you take you're and you're working with young men that are somewhere between 18 and 22 years old.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got all these, all these pressures and all these demands and all these expectations of all these eyeballs on you, and you're training young men to go out and perform under pressure, but also with with the with college football and American football, there's an element of between every play, you have to reassess what the situation is.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then as a coach, you're then making a decision as to what your team is gonna do strategically on the next play.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: So all these things come into play within the moment of the games.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: So you're having to literally chop and change and make new decisions based on what's happening at all the times.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_00: So my question is you're always trying to think ahead, but you know, you never know exactly what's gonna happen.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: But and it's all within within a time frame.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_00: So you have literally 10 to 15 seconds to decide what comes next.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there's 110,000 people, 107,000 people in the stadium that all think that they know what you should do next.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and they're not shy about their opinion sometimes.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_02: No one's shy about their opinion.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: And also, it's a world of where you've got to win in order to get results and for things to shift and evolve.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_02: The wolves at your door knocking on it, isn't it?
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: No question.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's no different.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_00: I've the last couple of years I got kind of addicted.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Serie A in Italy.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: So I've become a Napoli fan.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I watch, you know, the pressure on coaches, and even it's no different no matter where you are.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the excitement, the intensity, and those things, it's so similar.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and it's it's been it's been fun to watch, watch a, you know, thanks thanks to streaming and the internet and stuff now, I can watch their games in real time.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: And it's been a lot of fun to watch how that plays out.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, human nature is what it is, whether it's in the United States, Europe, whether it's American football, or whether it's football in Europe, fans are the way they are.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's been fun to kind of watch these the passion of the fan base in Italy and how much it means to them.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: And I see that same correlation in college football.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: So I see how these people deal with the pressure.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a lot of fun to watch that.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_02: So you you've grown up in this environment, and what was it like to grow up with a famous father who's renowned for over 400 wins and two uh college championships?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: What was it like growing up with your father and having this sort of understanding, watching him perform?
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: How did you how was it how was it like to grow up?
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: What was it like to grow up with that?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, from a family standpoint, it was, you know, when people, whether it's a famous coach or whether it's an actor or whatever it may be, um, once people acquire a certain level of fame, uh, they you're sharing them as a family member with other people.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you go out to dinner, people will grab you and say, Can I back then it was can you sit, can I get an autograph?
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's, you know, can I take a selfie?
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_00: That kind of stuff.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the there's that element of you never feel like you have them to yourself sometimes when you go publicly, go to dinner or do family things.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that but but you know, you get a lot of other good things.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: You get to be around really cool events and be around uh big games and things like that.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: So everything in life you get you get handed, you get dealt a hand, there's positives and negatives.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_00: For sure.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: So you've got to deal it.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I was a kid, I didn't understand it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: But as I grew up, I got to understand that whole thing, that whole part of it.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_02: So from from having been around by osmosis and absorbing all that energy from your father and the environments that you were put in, what sort of leadership things did you take away, you know, early on?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: What did you think, you know, because you're you're not your father, you're Jay.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and you're you're learning through watching and observing and then applying in your own world, in your own experience.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_02: What sort of leadership sort of things did you take away early on, do you feel, that you perhaps watched from your father when you were young?
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I don't know if I picked up that much when I was young, but when I when I was in college, I played for him.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: I played at Penn State, and you started to realize that whether it's business or whatever it is, whether it's sports, there when you're if you're gonna be a successful leader, credibility is is all of the ultimate importance.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: You can't, the minute they doubt your credibility, that then the foundations of being able to lead are gone.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: So to establish that kind of credibility, it's really important that you have a core set of values.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_00: What do we stand for?
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_00: What does this business or what does this program, what are we here to do, and what are our core set of values?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now, once you've established that, you're year to year, week to week, quarter to quarter, whatever it is, um, tactics may have to change based on external factors, but it still has to be consistent with what you're all about in terms of your core.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's where we've kind of lost uh when you see people that that lose control of leadership situations and fail, it's often because they've become untethered from what anchored them in the first place.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: Which are those core values, right?
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're if you know, the minute you lose touch with those core things, uh, that's when people go, oh, okay, he's a phony, she's a phony, he doesn't really mean what he says, or she doesn't mean what she says.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I think those are things that enable you, and I learned that watching him, and there was a consistency of those core values over decades that that he that he was uh that he was loyal to.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I really appreciate listening to that.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_02: I was having a conversation today about somebody whose business was overseas, and I said, What are your core values?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_02: And he couldn't really say it.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I think I think that's what I said, that's weird.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_02: Challenges, and here you are saying this is an absolute pillar for your success and leadership.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_02: How long's the university or the college been around for?
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I think 1855.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: 1855.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was the 1910 was the first time I saw the the the wildcat come up.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the the they call it the Nittany Lion, which is nothing more than the mountain lion, and we're in the Nittany Valley.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: So so the guy in 1910 made up this Nittany Lion thing.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: So my my my question is is was it as far back as 1855 that Penn State had a core set of values, or did it evolve?
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I think it evolved over time, but uh really what what the core set of values as a university was really in the 1862, I think it was, there was uh an act passed by the United States Congress and signed into law by Abraham Lincoln, which established land grant universities, which basically meant that we were going to be given a certain amount of land and there were gonna be funds from federal lands that were being sold uh uh in the western part of the United States that would then fund these universities.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: But part of that core thing was to educate the working classes.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we had these Ivy League institutions, but what they were trying to set up was a series of public universities that would then be affordable and accessible to uh to the the the essentially the working class.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the masses, yeah.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: And that's been the core thing that's driven Penn State.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm now on the board of trustees at Penn State, so I'm part of the group at the fiduciary group that oversees the university.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_00: And that's always been our challenge is to make sure that our true core value is educating the people of not just Pennsylvania, but the country and even the world with those same ideals.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's but it, you know, that becomes a challenge with changing times.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Of course.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: So do we have, and do you know off the top of your head, I'm sure you do, or could you would you be kind enough to share what those values are of Penn State, the ones that actually build that identity that you have as a core university, because it is one of the top core universities for sports and education in the country?
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think the biggest thing is that we our core value essentially is that we are here to change people's lives.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_00: In our in our alma mater, it's uh, you know, the song that we sing that you know represents the university, it talks about, you know, when we stood at childhood's gate and thou did that thou didst mold us, dear old state.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: So this idea that you're coming in as a 17 or 18-year-old person who's still kind of a kid but ready to be an adult, that we are gonna help mold you to be the right, to be ready for life as an adult.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you it's whether it's you want to be an engineer or you want to be in business or you want to be an art major, whatever it is, we're gonna give you those things, but also give you the kind of things outside of the education from the experiences that you have.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now that's become to just to give you an idea how difficult that's become, uh, is that you know, we have a generation of young people in our university now that grew up on tablets and phones, and yeah, they've lost some of that interconnected, that human connection, and then going through two years of COVID where kids were homes, you know, at home and lost that connection.
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: There's a generation of kids coming into college right now that need to kind of find a re way to reconnect on the human scale.
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the things, the tactics we're changing to stay cool true to those core values and trying to do that at scale.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that's can be very challenging to do at scale, right?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, there's no question.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And there's been a lot of we've done some things on smaller levels, but now we're ready to go and do it at scale because we feel like we have an obligation because we're hearing from employers that are saying, all these kids coming out of colleges now, they don't have, they don't have to work in a team, they don't know how to work with others, they've lost these connection skills and communication skills.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: And we're trying to find ways constantly to try and and and build those things back up.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's it's just unfortunate that's where we're at, but we have an obligation now to try and correct those problems here and around the country.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting because I believe every generation gets dealt a new set of cards.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: They they get things that are perhaps beneficial than the previous generation, but also a new set of challenges.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_02: And this is just a new set of challenges.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: Having grown up on tablets and phones and and the digital age, it's just new.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just a new set of challenges with a new set of solutions that will come about.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that your job that and the rest of your team and the board of trustees, that your job is to find solutions that can actually help these kids evolve into being, you know, fantastic young adults.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have that obligation because if we don't, we're failing what we what we set out to do.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh back in 1855 is to educate people and prepare them for successful careers and lives and stuff.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it's been, it's been a really fun's probably not the right word, but I love challenges.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's been a lot of, it's been fascinating and interesting to hear all the tools that are out there now as well.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, things are accelerating.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think one of the eye-opening things has been in the last, you know, in May is generally graduation season for colleges and universities in in the United States.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the more it was one of the things that was surprising because we knew that students are comfortable to a point with AI, but not loving it necessarily.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: And when you saw a lot of these high, you know, these people that are high tech giving commencement speeches and mention mentioning AI and hearing these students boo it loudly.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this wasn't like, oh, we don't like it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: It was boo.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that was very eye-opening for us to understand that AI has a place, but it can't replace the the important things, the human part of it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it's it's it's this is a really great opportunity for a leadership moment in this country in a lot of a lot of ways.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's a real joy for me to speak coach to coach, you know, because I help very high-performing men, and everyone has a set of challenges regardless of where you're at on any particular scale, if you want to call it a scale.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're performing at such a high level, you have a specific set of challenges that are specific to you, and they're pressurized because it seems as though more people are waiting on you to make the best decisions you possibly can, because your your decisions affect so many.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: And in college football, and what you do, you have so many people in those stands, so many fans hoping and praying that you get a result out of one of those 12 matches you have a year whilst moulding those students.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's fascinating to see how you can draw out, and the word education comes from the Latin word educo, which means to draw out from within you know, the best qualities you can from your students so that they perform well.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, for you as a coach and watching on the sidelines and being involved in the games, what standout qualities have you seen from individuals that perform at a really high level?
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is there something that you've seen regularly that a standout individual or individuals they all have in common?
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: What have you seen on the sidelines there?
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I think I think drive is is far and away the biggest thing.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some people, you know, when you get to a high-profile situation like college football, a lot of people look at on TV and they go, that's what I want to do.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want to go play.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's easy.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: Getting guys, we can go find all kinds of guys that want to play.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: The question is, what will they do to get there and perform at their at their highest level?
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: And it requires two things.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: They they have to have the drive to do it.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some guys, there's an old saying, it's easier to say, it's easier to say woe than giddy up.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: So you want, you know, as it relates to horse, you know, you know, if the horse just continually is sprinting, you're better off having that guy than someone you gotta kick in the rear end and say, let's go, giddy up.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_02: Where does that drive come from?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_02: Is it innate?
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: Is it is it something that they're given?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_02: Is it something that they develop, or is it just already there for a set of reasons?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And if you know the set of reasons, what are they?
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think for most of the guys that get to our level, some it's it's partly innate and partly there's something that they want to do.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's something that they want to attain and achieve.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: And it just some people have are wired that way.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, some people aren't, but they can get to be that way when they start to see what could happen and the possibilities.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_00: Because I've had guys that succeed a very, very high level that came from different areas and it took different levels of drive when they got to us.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes it just takes a coach saying to someone, you may not be able to see the abilities you have, but I see the abilities that you have.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:27
  SPEAKER_00: And this is what is possible.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_00: And sometimes just that igniting that match gets someone to suddenly go, oh my God, you know, and and get him to understand that, you know, every day is a challenge.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean it comes from a lot of different ways, but as a coach, you have to understand that you're not coaching robots.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody comes with different circumstances and different, you know, some guys come from two-parent homes, some guys come for they were raised by a grandmother or just their mom, or some guys may have, you know, grown up in a difficult environment in, you know, in an inner city and don't have and have witnessed some things that that have made life very, very difficult for them.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to get to know all these guys and what makes them tick, and then you find what motivates them.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: But most of the guys we get, like I said, most of them when they get here, they have that drive built in, but you can develop it.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I think part of it is putting uh if you have confidence in them, they suddenly feel the confidence sometimes that maybe they didn't even know they had.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_02: How did you develop those skills yourself?
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because you had to become, no doubt, very good at learning about each of these players that you've had.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I think in terms of you know, human nature has not changed over time.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I've done over the years is I'm I for whatever reason, I like to read a lot.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So when I read, I've you know, I'm still I'm still I do have some books on you know my tablet, but I'm still, as you can see behind me, I still believe in written pages.
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I'm generally reading with highlighters because something will jump out and I'll go, oh my God, this relates to something.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's something here, something there, whatever it may be.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: And that that kind of correlates.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, and even if you if people read the Bible, there are things in the Bible, human nature, that you go, wow, that was 2,000 years ago.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_00: I've read the Quran.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there are things in the Quran that you go, wow, that was 1,500 years ago.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: And all these things are, you know, human nature over time.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we generally, and so if you understand human nature, whether it's reading literature, history, whatever it is, um, you'll find those things that relate to the things that you see in the people around you and how to motivate them.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, I think that's that's what I learned from my dad watching him, because he was an English literature major at Brown University before he became a coach.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, he had this whole love of literature.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_00: My mom was an English literature major, so there was always reading.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I resisted that when I was a kid, I hate that, but now I love it.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting that we we have that you you absorb that by osmosis in your family, you rebel against it because you, you know, there's a young part of Jay that's going, I don't want to be like you.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: I want to be, I want to carve and forge my own path, right?
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but at the same time, as you sort of evolve in your own journey, in your own uh journey of success, you kind of go, Well, maybe they were right.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_02: I can I can pick out that highlight, and then I can go over these.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: You know how many times my parents say to, you know, hey, the older you get, the smarter I'm gonna look.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_00: And it was, you know, I hated broccoli when I was a kid.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love it now.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's all these things my parents say, You'll learn to like it, you'll learn to like it.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: And you'll and you know, that's that's and my dad used to say to me, it's not important that you like me now.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not here to be your friend.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: He said, But 20 years from now, 30 years from now, when you realize what I was trying to get you to understand and how the world works, you're really gonna like me then.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_02: And he was right.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's interesting, it's a tough lesson for a young boy to actually take that on his shoulders, no doubt.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I really empathize with that because there's a lot of young men who feel the pressure from the father to be able to achieve.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, I've seen a huge correlation on some of the highest performing young men in sports and in business have a father figure that's a bit tough on them.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've seen a massive correlation of that.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And there just has to be enough trauma, but not too much, for it to go, I'm really going for it.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, we have a good balance with that.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you have to have a balance, right?
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_02: But at the same time, it has to be enough, right?
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and he would he would say, Look, here's why I'm doing this.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it wasn't just it wasn't dictating.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, occasionally every father gets into d dic dictatorial mode at times, you know, because I said so.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that we didn't hear that a whole lot.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: It was very much of do you understand why we're saying this to you?
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: And then he would explain it.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'm fascinated by this because what you know it takes twenty-five up till about twenty-five to thirty, your prefrontal cortex in your brain, is which is the reasoning aspect of your brain, it takes to be fully developed.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's developed mainly by asking questions, why?
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_02: So by your dad doing that, he's been helping you show up reasoning.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: Even when you go, I disagree.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like, I'm sure.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm in my 50s and I'm still not sure that part's fully developed.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, there you go.
• 22:43
  SPEAKER_02: We often see like this public side of sport.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_02: We see the winning, we see the glory.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: But what's actually happening on the other side of that from your first hand knowledge and experience of working in Penn State for two decades?
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a lot of adversity.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of we don't really get to see that.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: People just get to see the wins, they get to see the glory, they don't get to see the routes to success.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_02: They don't get to see the underground, the bits where it's raining and it's cold and it's snowing, and you just had another tough day and whatever, car's broken down.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_02: You know, all these types of things, all these sets of challenges.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: We never hear about that.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: Tell us what you witness.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_00: There is no question.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think one of the things that's unfortunate with this generation of young people is they've grown up with social media where famous people, everything is great.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's always I'm always where I'm supposed to be.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: I'm at Burning Man, I'm Coachella, I'm at the World Cup, I'm at the Super Bowl.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Here I am.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_00: And all they see is these people are always happy, they're always where they're supposed to be, they always have plenty of money, they always look good.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't realize that those people have emotions too, because they don't, nobody wants to be vulnerable and talk about those things.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I think we've gotten to a point where I think it's important to people understand the steps it takes to get and be successful.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, in the wintertime in Pennsylvania, it's cold.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: We get, you know, we would get up at six o'clock in the morning, two or three times a week, and they would come in.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now we'd work out inside, but they have to walk across campus and show up and work really, really hard at six o'clock in the morning and then go to class for the rest of the day.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: And you have injuries and you have setbacks and you have things that go right and things that go wrong, but there's a price that you pay that we nobody really talks about with the adversity and toughness.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, uh uh the American football is a very physical game.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: And very rarely do you ever play a game after you after the first couple of games where you feel 100% and you go through there's there's pain involved, and there is the other guy's trying to hit you as hard as he can.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_00: You're trying to get away from him, or you're trying to hit him as hard as you can, and those things.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: So all these things create doubt, create pain, create things you have to manage, and you have to go through those things.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: And people don't see that.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_00: They see the glory of game day and they see being on TV and the cheer of the crowd, and you know, and the and the young gladiator warrior being carried off the field or taking the adulation after a win.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: They don't realize all the things that are paid to get to there.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: And that's and that's that's where you really you don't win games on Saturdays in in college football.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: You win games the the the other 353 days a year when you're not on the on playing a game, you put in a price to pay for that.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: And and so it it becomes very and not only that, you've got to learn game plans, you've got to come in and watch film and and get all these things involved and all this preparation that goes in for those, you know, 12 one-hour games a year of 60 minutes of football that that you've got to put into that.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_02: You've got 12, you've got 12 hours a year, haven't you?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_02: Basically, you've got 12 hours a year to shine.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: And uh I mean you look at the NFL, Zanfell's the same way.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that it's but all those things that are put in, and all those things you I mean, if you are not prepared, you're gonna you're gonna get embarrassed because the other guy's preparing.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other part about that's really kind of a neat thing, is there's also this in your mind, there is this running paranoia, may not be too strong a word for it, but it's you know, I know the guy I've got to beat is working his butt off to beat me.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: And so there's this where's that healthy balance of I don't burn out, I'm not tired before the the game starts.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's this balance of how do I how do I get myself best positioned to overcome their best effort.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean it's not, you know, if you're if you're in like if I'm in the band U2, which God forbid that happens, but when they go out to do a show in Wembley or wherever they go, you know, do a show, everybody in that arena is on their side.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, you know, there's nobody trying to make them have a bad show.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: If they have a bad show, it's because they just didn't prepare and there's not a competitor trying to uh upend them.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um that's exactly what you have, someone trying to upend you for 12 hours a year.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: Someone who's trying to make you look bad, and you gotta understand that.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, even if even coaches I'm friends with on other teams, you know, for that week that you're playing them, there's no friendship there anymore.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, you're trying to get me, I'm trying to get you.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_02: So there must be a lot of emotion that you have to manage there.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: Person, your own personal emotion, and also all the athletes as well.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_02: And if you don't win, you look bad, results don't go away, sponsorships don't go away, etc.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: etc.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: The university doesn't look great.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: How do you manage all that?
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_02: How do you take the weight of that and and what do you do to keep yourself in balance under those circumstances?
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think over the course of the course of my career, no one, when I first started, no one talked about mental health.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: What's that?
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, sports psychology was just was still kind of in its infancy, not infancy, but was still something that only certain people did.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: You know, headcases.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, he's going to sport psych, oh, because he's a head case.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was it was almost denigrated.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: It was seen as something as a sign of weakness.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but as it's evolved, there's a lot more discussion about, you know, your health as it relates to being a coach or being a player.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: From here up is every bit as important as from here down, because that that enables you to perform at the highest level.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: So you have to have a balance.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: You have to understand if you keep the game in proper perspective, the results don't define the kind of person you are.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there was a lesson that my dad used to say, he said, the difference there's a difference between success and excellence.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: And success is how the outside world defines you wins, losses, money, all that kind of stuff.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: But excellence is is is internal.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_00: And excellence is more important.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: He said, because if you go out and do, if you have a set of standards and you go out and perform to those standards, and the other guy's a little better than you, you know what?
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: You gotta live with that.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes the other guy's got a better day than you, and you, but you can still look yourself in the mirror at the end of the day if you have that sense of personal excellence within you.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it goes, and you gotta have that within a balance of life, whether it's a family or whether it's relationships with other people, or whether it's just understanding that, you know, football is a game, not life itself.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: And if you can do that and understand that, then I think it helps you keep a balance.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I do things like I take long, I go hiking, I do things where I'm writing or, you know, people journal, things like that.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_00: There's all kinds of different things that you can get away from it and put it in its compartment and say, okay, I'm home with my kids right now.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: I can't do anything about the game plan right now.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: I've got to be there and have that balance and be there not just physically, but also mentally as well.
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I think all those things we talk about a lot more as in in society and as coaches and in sports now.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's been beneficial.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds incredibly beneficial.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: And how does that translate to the young players?
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_02: You have to give them the same idea.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think I think the biggest thing is coaches, you know, I've heard coaches at other schools that I know they'll say, hey, if you don't play, you're gonna cost me my job.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, oh no, don't say that.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Don't don't put that on a kid.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_00: You know, too much responsible.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, first of all, if they don't like you, they may just say, okay, good.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, hell with you.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: But at the same token, it's hard enough for them to perform without putting these outside pressures on them.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: I think one of the things that I I was have been successful with as a coach is helping each player understand you know that there's a bigger thing in the world than this, but also understand you're only responsible for the things you can control.
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: So if I throw a pass to someone and they don't catch it, okay, if it's in their hands and they drop it, you got the ball to them.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so therefore, you did what you're supposed to do.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_00: So even though statistically it's not a completed pass, that's that you did everything you could, and I would grade their performance based only on the things they could control.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_00: The first goal, obviously, is a team is to win, but each player has to understand this is what I'm being asked to do.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: This is the, you know, this is how I execute that play or my part in the play.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: And if I do everything I can, then there's nothing else I can do about it.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: And if I'm okay with that, then I'm okay with that.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I would try and really strip it down to this is what you have to do, and this is what you're responsible for.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: You're not responsible for the other 10 guys on the field and what they do.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: They've got to do some things on for them too.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_02: And that's sort of like, you know, leaning into your father's philosophy is be excellent.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_02: Know what you've got to do.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, no question.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_02: Do it regularly, and success will be the external validation of the internal things done correctly.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: Have I have I listened to that?
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I mean it went back when my dad died.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: One of his classmates in high school was a guy named Bill Blady.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Bill Blady wrote the book The Exorcist, which became a very famous movie and everything.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: But Bill Blady told me a story about my dad from high school.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: And if we I had never heard the story before, and it was, and he said, um, so Bill was a had a great singing voice, and he was in this New York City singing contest, and he came in second, and he was down about it because he thought he was the best guy, and the judges gave it to somebody else.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad said, Do you think you won?
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think you were the best?
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: And he said, Yes, because that's all you need.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And that that was in high school.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's pretty heavy stuff for a kid in high school.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like all those years later, you know, 70 years later, after my dad had passed, this guy tells me that story, and I go, Wow.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what and he said, Jay, that's that really had an impact on me when I got into my career writing and everything else.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's beautiful, isn't it, that your your dad had that kind of insight at that type of age as well.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, no question.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because I sure as hell didn't have one school.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you know, that's why I think I was just trying to figure out how to tie my shoes in high school.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're all doing the best we can.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: Some of us are able to see things differently and and help and that gives us an ability to lead people to the best of our ability because it's done in a positive way.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um and when I'm looking at your book, Blitzed, your your new book that's come out, tell us a little bit about this book and what it's talking about for college football, because it's it's a very interesting take on college football.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think there's been any other books about college football in the format that you've done it.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, I don't know.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_00: So in all the years I've spent around college football, there's you you you see stories and you talk to guys at other schools, and these stories all start to accumulate.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: And basically what I said was, I'm gonna write a book about what's going on right now in college football.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: But I want I I don't want to name people for sure.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: Because now, you know, guys tell you stories and they're like, I told you that in confidence, or you don't want to put people in a situation that we've got to answer to these things.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and also once you start writing nonfiction, now you got lawyers involved that are saying, well, you know, we may not want to print this or print that.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: So I took it and put it in novel form.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_00: So it's what I call nonfiction fiction, which is these are all real stories about what's going on.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it allows me to really pull the curtain back on what's happening in college football in the United States right now and be very honest and upfront about it without having people get upset because you wrote something about the school I went to or the school that I went to or whatever it may be.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: So people are going to get a real sense of what's going on.
• 35:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it touches on issues of race in this country, which are very prevalent.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about the mental health part of it.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about how a coach deals with his own mental health and the players.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_00: It talks about all these external temptations because we've gone from a position five years ago where college football players could not be paid to do ads or play the game, to where now they're getting paid and they're getting paid exorbitant sums of money compared to where we are.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_00: And while everybody outside thinks that's all well and good, they're getting paid, they realize because now they are a commodity that can get generate seven figures, they have family members that suddenly say, Well, you need to go from this school to that school because they're gonna pay you more money.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the kids, like, I'm happy here.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: Or why aren't you making as much as this guy?
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: Or why, you know, if you come from a tough home, hey, we need money at home to to pay the mortgage, or whatever it may be.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_02: Or it's so all these young kids who are getting these deals now, which probably didn't exist, is it five years ago, you say?
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_02: It's been the last five years, this has exploded like that.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: So they're in a position where people are trying to yank their train left, right, and center, and then they've got a new set of challenges, which is family members wanting things, people wanting things, external people.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like you're trying to manage their emotions so that they play well, and if they flunk it, you know, then that's another set of challenges you've got.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's great.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: The current model of college football right now, it's created a monster for kids.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: And the mental health stuff is starting to show.
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_00: So you're seeing kids that are really having trouble with the mental health part of it.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you have all these other temptations.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a there's a player at another university in the United States who was you're not allowed to gamble.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he got, because gambling is everywhere in the United States on your phone, pretty much, he got in some trouble gambling and really had an addiction problem.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: And now people are all judging him rather than saying, wait a minute, let's we we should have seen these things coming.
• 37:09
  SPEAKER_00: So all these factors now are what starting to cur to really avalanche down on 18-year-old kids, 17-year-old, 18-year-old, 19-year-old kids, and they're having to become adults very, very quickly while all while the world is watching what they do on a Saturday afternoon with 10 other guys and and their team and and and stuff.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: So all I've got a lot of compassion, you know, because I was a 19-year-old kid that got in a car crash, you know, and it was near fatal.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, it was a stupid thing that I did.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: But I managed to walk away and it it gave me uh a new set of ideas and values that I didn't have prior to that.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, it's a lot of compassion for young kids who have, you know, potentially the world on their shoulders and all this responsibility, but they haven't yet got the reasoning, which is like kind of what your dad was ingraining on you for such a long, uh, a long time from such a young age.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I would say what a gift to have a dad like that, you know.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: And we all want to have powerful parental figures, both mothers and fathers in life in our life.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: We really need them, but not every kid has that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's another set of challenges that we have that I'm sure your book goes into all the different dynamics of all the different types of players you get that you have to manage.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_00: My question Yeah, there's no question.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, it's oh go ahead.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_02: My question is like, how do you manage those kids that come from broken homes who are just doing the best they can and then suddenly get a massive deal, you know, and then like having to manage that and then what to do and and start try and stay balanced, you know, because the career is not just college football.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_02: They could go to the NFL, you know, it's a possibility, right?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and and on top of that, they're supposed to be they're going to school.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: All these things are cascading down on them.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I think what I think the thing in Valors this is from a leadership standpoint, uh, whether you're a coach or whether you're an administration with with people going through what these guys are going through, is is you have to give them every tool you can.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_00: You bring in people to talk to them about the mental health.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: You bring in people talking about managing tax implications or financial implications or contracts.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: So you so universities are trying to do those things where they educate them.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_00: The problem one of the the thing is is that sometimes the university is seen as kind of the system, so to speak.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So you you know, well, you're the bad guy, you're the villain, right?
• 39:41
  SPEAKER_00: You're the villain.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, they're gonna tell you that because they want to you, you know, they're using you.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, but but I think the biggest thing is this is a term I call impatient potential.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_00: And kids that can see, like, I've got this ability, and I'm gonna be in the NFL someday, and I'm gonna be this, they're too impatient to get there, and they think it happened, and partly because, again, we live in a world where you see on social media everybody is happening, all the good things happen all the time and they never end, the good times never end.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_00: That this impatient potential sometimes is their biggest enemy because it has to happen yesterday.
• 40:16
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I I my kids, you know, they don't this generation has never had to go to an encyclopedia and look up in a book like how do I find like a research paper.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, you're a library.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, go to a library and go, where do I find the books and how what pay they can get all these things so quickly that they because the this idea of impatient potential has even exploded to a point where it's completely unrealistic, and you have to manage, help them manage those things.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's really interesting, like the life lessons that we require.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things, this impatient potential that you're talking about, seems to me like one requires a healthy grounding of how life actually works, but you can't really know that until you're humbled.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: And at a young and at a young age, you're not often humbled, you know.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um and I'm not saying that you want them to be humbled, but it's a fact of life.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: You are going to get humbled at some point, and maybe just maybe you can learn a lesson or take that from somewhere.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, in the world of sports, you see athletes.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_02: I just watched tennis recently, and a guy broke his ankle six years ago and played on the same court of which he won six years later.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_02: Both the pleasure and the pain, you recognize you get humbled, and then you can come back if you're lucky, you know, the stars align for you.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_02: But not everybody can come back from injury.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you probably get college athletes that could get very badly injured and never never might never make it back.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no question.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: And you and you talk about being humble.
• 41:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you look at probably the greatest in terms of the most accomplished championship football player in the history of the United States is Tom Brady, who's won seven, seven Super Bowls, and no one else is even close.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: But throughout his career, Tom was never kind of the guy.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when he went to the University of Michigan, there were other quarterbacks they wanted to play ahead of him, and he had to fight through that.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And when he got to the NFL, he was a sixth-round draft pick.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: He was passed, all these other quarterbacks were taken ahead of him.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it drove him.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: Michael Jordan was probably the greatest winner of all time in in in sports and was cut from his high school basketball team.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it unbelievable.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_00: But he, you know, it was really the work ethic, right?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Or for both of those.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: But that's that's humbling at an early age.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_00: And when he went to college, he had a coach that, even after they won the championship, sent a letter about the things he needed to work on in the summer.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you how many times has Lindsay Vaughn continued to get up off the mat, so to speak?
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, with all the injuries she had.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, that being humble sometimes is is the most important lesson you can have.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is this message passed along to your athletes, you know, your young athletes, to the the story of, hey, this story about like what you've just said, because I think it's so good for mental health, right?
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, this is why I love my work with what I do, not only with the podcast, but with coaching as well.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_02: And when we understand the mind, the it can paint you a very negative story which you can buy into.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: We live in an era in the United States, certainly, where leadership is seen by some people as never admitting you're wrong.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have politicians that it's no matter what, they I'm not I'm right, I'm right, I'm right, and they never admit they're wrong.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_00: Even when presented with evidence that they're wrong, they continue to double down, or they just say, well, that's not.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just what it is.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and and we have people that look at that and say, that's leadership.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: And the ability uh as athletes or as leaders to say, you know, recognize I didn't do as well as I could have, or sometimes things aren't going to go my way, or you know, how do I come back from this?
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, adversely to me, I mean, if you told me uh what are the Greatest memories you have as a coach.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_00: It was in the games where it was late in the game and the clock was running out, and we were behind.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather be behind late in the game and have a chance to control my destiny with the ball and come back and win the game rather than be ahead by 50.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: Because to me, that's when you find out something about yourself.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think people, so many people don't want that challenge.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or they don't want to get out of a comfort zone of what they're really good at, or they think you're, and I think that's where you grow.
• 44:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I've, you know, it's we used to tell guys all the time, you're you know, that's after a game, you're never as good as you think you are when you won, and you're never as bad as you thought you were when you lose.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's the beauty of filming all the games.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: You can sit down and say, here are three plays that if that ball bounces the other way, you win, you lose the game.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the flip side, you say, here are three plays.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_00: If we just get a little more effort here, a little bit there, or the ball bounced their way, we win the game.
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_00: So it's you know, it's it's hard to get kids to understand that.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: But luckily, in the era of video, all this video and stuff, they can see it and you go, look, you see that little angle right there.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_00: That little step, if you had taken that step two more steps, you're past them and now you win.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: Or if you would held on to that block a little longer, we score and we win the game.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_00: So um, those are the things as a coach, you have to find because after everybody wins, I mean, the the lessons of after a win are much harder for people to absorb because they've diluted themselves into thinking everything was great.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_00: And so we coached harder after we coached harder after loss after wins than we did losses.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_02: And you you learn more from a loss than you do from a win.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_02: A win just goes, hey, we did things right today, so good for me or good for us.
• 45:49
  SPEAKER_02: But it's when you didn't do things right, it's like, well, where could you have turned up?
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: If you strip everything back, you take away like the football, you take away the success and trophies, what do you think it makes a really successful and meaningful life?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, the journey, there's no question about it.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's funny because you you you get into this mindset where we're gonna win a championship, but how great it's gonna be to hold up a trophy or get rings or whatever it may be.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_00: And you've got this thing all built up.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I, you know, and I remember it, you know, the first time, my first year at Pensay on the team, we won we won the championship.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_00: And it was like, this is gonna be great, we win.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then you won the championship, people hold up a trophy, and after two or three days, you're kind of like, oh, no.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_00: But I mean, it's like, yeah, but when you you get together with your teammates or fellow coaches 20 years later, it's the journey you remember.
• 46:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a trophy, it's not a ring, it's not the moment when you held the trophy up.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: It was, do you remember the game in the seventh week of the season we were trailing and somehow we found a way to win?
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_00: And and do you remember that practice that we had where, you know, we figured this out and that enabled us to win?
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_00: Or the trip to such a, you know, because you know, when you travel to away games, there's this experience of going away with your teammates and being in a hostile environment.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And do you remember what those people at Ohio State yelled at us, you know, or whatever it may be, or how we quiet the crowd?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: The journey, and and the more people I talk to have won at the highest level, they talk about journey, journey, journey, journey.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: And to me, that's that's the beauty of it, especially in a team sport where you have to rely on each other and those relationships.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, every time I'm at a championship team reunion and guys start talking, it just puts this thing in your heart like, yeah, that was the price we pay, but it was worth every cent, every second of it.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that to me is what it's about.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: And that's life, too.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's if you don't enjoy enjoy the journey, find find something you want to do that you enjoy the journey.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because you're gonna be much more successful.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like, it doesn't mean every day is awesome.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's the really crappy days, but you know, the but it's the it's this progression towards a goal.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think that having a goal is the most important thing, and then working towards it, and you never know, like you know, sometimes success takes seasons before you actually can take 10 years or five years, 10 years, maybe even 20 years.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: I remember Anthony Hopkins said one of his greatest successes took him like 20 years in movies, and I was like, wow, that's a lot, like you know, people are prepared to wait.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_02: Like, even Lincoln, like he had uh so many failures up until actually getting elected.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I remember looking at it, it was like it was a period of like 35, 40 years or something ridiculous, you know.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_00: He wasn't supposed to win that election.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: And thank God he did.
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I love that about the journey because sometimes we we don't think it's about the journey, I think it's about right now.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_02: We think about, you know, what can I do to just make sure the ends meet, or what can I do to just make sure that we perform well today.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I think that that's a very grounding thing to remind yourself that it the joy is in the journey.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_02: That that when there is purpose, you that makes you feel alive.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said, you push towards your heart to go, ah, that's what this is about.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I I didn't learn that, you know, that was something that I learned as a coach, not necessarily as a player.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because when you I think when you're 18, 19, it's hard to, you know, you think life's forever when you're 18 years old.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is gonna go on forever, and you realize all of a sudden, like three years later, you're out of college and you're like, wait, what just happened?
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but there were times when I was coaching and you just knew you had a team of really special people.
• 49:44
  SPEAKER_00: And every time you go on the practice field, you could relish that moment of being there and saying, you know, this is only gonna last till January.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then we're gonna have a whole new group of players here and a whole new group of people that we have to mold into a team.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_00: And at times I almost got usually our season would end on January 1st or January 2nd.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: And the day after that last game, there was like this feeling of accomplishment that the season was over, but it was like all that time and all that journey's over.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it was a sadness.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't depression, but it was a sadness, like that journey is over.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: This dynamic of the people that we have that we've been together won't be identical ever again.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you would go, I would go, wow, like, and then I go, now I gotta start another journey, and it would take me a day or two to get out of that funk.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, these guys who were here for four years, who I really came to appreciate and love, because that you know, you can't be successful, you don't love one another as a team.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and to say, you know, they're gonna graduate and go on to the NFL.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_00: And now some younger guys that I'm not as familiar with, I gotta get them to that point.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's hard work and it's a journey, but like I'm gonna miss that, you know, and um, you know, you feel you feel it because it's a season of like we did this together, we achieved this together, and then when that stops, it will never be the same again, and then you have to kind of rebuild it and start again.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: I guess if someone's going through any challenge right now, and going through their own pressures, not necessarily in sport, but in life, how would you help, or what would you say that would give them direction and identity and something that would give them meaning again?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_02: Because you know what it's like to be under pressure.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the most important thing is is, and you kind of mentioned it earlier, we talked about having a goal.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, where where do you want to get to?
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the most important thing.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because when people get down and they they feel the pressure, often it's because they've kind of lost sight of what they're trying to get to.
• 52:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the movie Shawshank Redemption is one of my favorite movies of all time, and the you know, the main character is wrongly imprisoned, and he, you know, where you know he doesn't lose all hope.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_00: He said, you know, hope is the best of things, you know.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: And he talked about it being the best of things.
• 52:19
  SPEAKER_00: And in that movie, to get out of that prison, he has to dig every night and every night over the course of and but he knew what he wanted to get to.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: And as long as that was still out there ahead of him, he could continue to work and deal with the day-to-day pain and the day-to-day challenges.
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's when people get lost, it's because they've lost sight of where they want to get to, and they become impatient about where they want to get to.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_00: And I've always tried to help young people out and say, okay, what do you want?
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_00: And they get overwhelmed with this is so far away, and the impatience of wanting everything to be settled within the course of 24 hours.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you gotta, you know, there's an old, I think the old saying is, you know, how do you even eat an elephant?
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one bite at a time, and that's how you got to get people to get understand.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: Because if they can break it down to one bite at a time or one day at a time, it's it's no different than people I've known that have gone through that are recovering alcoholics or recovering addicts.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have to go one day at a time and stack the days, and pretty soon, once you stack the days, next thing you know, you've got this tower built.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's what you gotta get people to say is what can you do today in this moment to get where you want to get to, as long as you know where you want to get to.
• 53:36
  SPEAKER_00: Sure.
• 53:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the hardest thing is getting them to understand where they want to get to, and then how each day's actions get you to where you want to be.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_02: It's really interesting.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_02: You've been doing this for like over two decades, and you've stacked every experience on top of one another, and two decades seems like a really long time.
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_02: And in my life, similarly, I've I promised myself I'm gonna do something for my own mental well-being, which is a daily meditation practice, just sit in silence for 20 minutes in the morning.
• 54:02
  SPEAKER_02: And I've done that for 22 years every day.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_02: And then when it comes to like physical goals, like building a team, you've worked with this team day in, day out.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_02: And if you haven't been with them physically, you've had to journal or figure out gameplays, etc.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: So you're constantly on the go, stacking, trying to build the best possible team you can in front of you.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_02: And the people that are listening right now, if they're unsure about the direction or feeling any stress, from what I've listened to you, it's like take one thing and do it every day to the best of your ability.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like your father said, make it excellent.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't remember who it was who said excellence is is a habit.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, I've I'm not sure who, but that's exactly right.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_02: So excellence is a habit.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_02: So like honoring and giving, you know, uh some praise to your father, it's like excellence.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: Just try and be as excellent as you possibly can in what you're doing.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't have to be Yeah, and ha and have some standards.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_00: And live to those standards.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, if you John Adams said uh one time, he said, um, you know, he was at second president of the United States, I think, if my memory's right.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_00: But he said, no matter how high or low my estimation in the eyes of the world, I can live with myself, essentially.
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he's basically saying, no matter what people think about me, it doesn't matter as long as I know who I am.
• 55:23
  SPEAKER_02: That's very important.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think you need to be able to look yourself in the mirror and go, I like who I am.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_02: I've shown up for myself again today.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I'm not where I want to be yet, I am still on my journey towards it because I've shown up today, I've done this, this, this, and this.
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_02: I've taken action towards something.
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think that gives the fire in the belly.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: And as you said, it kind of like it gives you purpose again.
• 55:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_02: Jay, it's been a real pleasure speaking with you.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_02: I've had I've had a blast.
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_02: It was a lot of fun.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you so much.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: If there's one last thing you'd like to share with the audience, what would it be?
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_02: Something takeaway, something from Jay, a personal takeaway.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, well, I think don't, you know, leadership is true, leadership is not being afraid to admit you're wrong, you know, and not being afraid to reach out for help because I I think we've we've kind of isolated ourselves that way societally.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, certainly here in the United States.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how it is necessarily around the world, but you see those things and and that's really how you get you you can't grow unless you you go through those processes and and have some adversity.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: And and you know, don't don't fear it.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's the biggest thing.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_02: Jay Petrano is this week's super soul model.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Jay.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, appreciate it.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_02: And if this episode resonated with you, make sure you follow the podcast and leave a review.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_02: It really helps us continue these conversations.