Latest / QUESTION EVERYTHING / Breaking Free: Jennifer Esposito's Journey From Hollywood's Boxes to Authentic Storytelling

Transcript

Breaking Free: Jennifer Esposito's Journey From Hollywood's Boxes to Authentic Storytelling · QUESTION EVERYTHING

• 0:04
  Speaker 1: Big things happen when you're pretty, pretty bold, pretty clever,
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: pretty strong. I'm Danielle Robe and each week my guests
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and I have conversations that put a new spin on pretty.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: This is pretty smart. Do you know about any means
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: necessary kind of person? Someone fiercely determined, willing to do
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: whatever it takes to achieve their goals, overcome obstacles, stand
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: up for what's right, no matter the cost. Aaron Brockovich
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: was that, and if we're talking movies, so was Katinus Everdeen,
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: Rocky Balboa. I've always gravitated towards people like this, maybe
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: because they excite me, inspire me, or maybe because I
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: have a little bit of that in me too. And
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: our guest today she's one of them. Jennifer espo Zito
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: is relentless, relentless in her pursuit of what's right, what's good,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: and what's just. I actually reached out to her after
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: seeing her story on TikTok. I knew her face from
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: Spin City, Crash, and Blue Bloods, but I had no
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: idea She had written, directed, and starred in Fresh Kills,
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: the first female led mafia movie, and yet mainstream media
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: wasn't giving at the time of day.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: Fresh Kills has not been given air and you haven't
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: heard about it. And the amount of New York Times,
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: LA Times, A Big publications that passed on even reviewing it,
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: even giving in a look it has been extremely painful.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: So I watched her video jump to Instagram and I
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: messaged her. I wrote, I built pretty smart for moments
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: like this. Can I help? She got back to me
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: right away, and here we are behind the Hollywood Polish
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: is a woman who refused to let the industry or
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: anyone else define her. She faced an industry notorious for
• 2:02
  Speaker 1: chewing people up and spitting them out.
• 2:04
  Speaker 3: They said, you were not the girl next door and
• 2:07
  Speaker 3: I was like, I have neighbors, I live next door
• 2:10
  Speaker 3: to people like I don't, what does that mean?
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: And instead of conforming, she forged her own path, one
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: marked by defiance, real creativity, and sheer determination. Fresh Kills
• 2:25
  Speaker 1: feels like the culmination of that rage, rejection, and betrayal
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: that Hollywood threw at her for twenty years, But it's
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: also the result of her resilience, her self, work, and
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: unwillingness to let the industry or anyone silence her. It's
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: the first Mafia movie told from a woman's perspective, exploring
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the ways that women are boxed in, are silenced and
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: told that they have no voice. It's also about how
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: they break free. And for Jennifer, getting this film made
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't just a passion project. It was deeply person and
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: all she fought for years. She poured everything she had
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: into it. Literally, she mortgaged her house to make this
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: movie happen.
• 3:08
  Speaker 3: On my dying day, Am I gonna be like, Wow,
• 3:12
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy my mortgage was so set and my
• 3:16
  Speaker 3: house was paid for?
• 3:18
  Speaker 4: Or am I gonna say I'm so happy I had
• 3:22
  Speaker 4: the balls to fucking do something and leave an imprint
• 3:26
  Speaker 4: on this world of something.
• 3:27
  Speaker 3: Beautiful in the flour this movie that will stay longer
• 3:32
  Speaker 3: than I am here and give an insane platform for
• 3:36
  Speaker 3: those two young women who deserve it.
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: And that's the kind of energy Jennifer's on. It's I
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: am who I am, and I won't apologize for it.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: And isn't that what art's about? Saying something. There's so
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: much beautiful nonsense that gets put out into the world
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Instagram aesthetics, content created for virality, movies made just to
• 3:59
  Speaker 1: check a box. But great art, great art has a
• 4:03
  Speaker 1: point of view, It demands attention and it starts conversations.
• 4:09
  Speaker 1: So in this episode today, Jennifer opens up about the
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: hard learned lessons that shaped her, why rejection can actually
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: be a gift, how anger can fuel change, and what
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: it takes to keep going when everything feels like it's
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: working against you. Plus, if you're like me and you
• 4:27
  Speaker 1: love a Mafia movie one told from a woman's perspective,
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: come on, we have to support. You can stream it
• 4:33
  Speaker 1: now on Apple TV, Amazon Prime YouTube, and as of today,
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: you can also stream it on Hulu.
• 4:40
  Speaker 5: So this project is obviously.
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: Personal to Jennifer, but I have to tell you after
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: our conversation, her fight became personal to me too. Years ago,
• 4:50
  Speaker 1: I read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers, and in it he explains
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: how many talented people never reach their full potential, and
• 4:57
  Speaker 1: it's not because they aren't gifted, because they don't have
• 5:01
  Speaker 1: the access to the right opportunities. He uses Canadian hockey
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: players as an example. Kids born earlier in the year
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: are slightly bigger, they get picked for elite teams early on,
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: and then they receive better coaching and it's snowballs into
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: professional success. Use this example and The same goes for music, business, science, sports.
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: For every Lebron James we see, there's countless others who
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: just never had the right circumstances to thrive. For every
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: big movie star, how many Jennifer Espositos have to fight
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: to be seen and how many others never get the
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: chance at all? How many voices and stories and perspectives
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: do we miss because the system isn't built to nurture them.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: And that's why I built this community to change the circumstances,
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: to create space for voices that really deserve to be heard,
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: and that includes you. That's why I zoom with one
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: of you every single week because we rise together and
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: I know that's true.
• 5:59
  Speaker 5: I know know it.
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: So today we get to see what happens when you
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: refuse to give up. Let's get into it with Jennifer Esposio. So, Jennifer,
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: everything I know about you as a fan and a
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: viewer is that you are one tough chick.
• 6:23
  Speaker 5: And I'm wondering if.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: You are really tough or are you one of those
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: people that are really soft on the inside.
• 6:29
  Speaker 3: Well being that you saw fresh skills. People always ask me,
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: you know is this you? And I always answer Rose
• 6:38
  Speaker 3: is who I actually am. Connie is who I had
• 6:41
  Speaker 3: to become. So any woman that has ambition and has
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: to go out in a world that still does not
• 6:57
  Speaker 3: see women as equal. Look at any industry. We get
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: paid less, there are less positions. We have to fight
• 7:07
  Speaker 3: and fight, and we have to work. I'm not even
• 7:09
  Speaker 3: gonna say twice as hard. Especially in this industry, you
• 7:12
  Speaker 3: got to work fifty times as hard and then there's
• 7:16
  Speaker 3: still only a corner of a crumb left for you.
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: You don't have any other option than to be a
• 7:26
  Speaker 3: strong woman. And if that comes off as a tough chick, okay,
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: I just think that who I am really is a
• 7:34
  Speaker 3: really big EmPATH. I feel everything. I'm extremely sensitive to
• 7:40
  Speaker 3: the world around me. I'm extremely sensitive to injustice. It
• 7:46
  Speaker 3: like breaks me in half. And when you live in
• 7:49
  Speaker 3: a world that that's the predominantly of what you're seeing,
• 7:55
  Speaker 3: it's a very difficult place. And to continue you have
• 8:01
  Speaker 3: to develop skills and an exterior that'll keep you going.
• 8:07
  Speaker 3: Because I'm also someone who doesn't like to sit and complain, Right,
• 8:14
  Speaker 3: do something, so to do something comes in the form
• 8:19
  Speaker 3: of it, I guess it looks like tough female.
• 8:22
  Speaker 5: I don't even think tough female.
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I just think you know you're from Brooklyn, And I
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: sort of have this armchair theory about Brooklyn Nights because
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: if you run down the list, it's like Powered Schultz,
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: who's the CEO of Starbucks, Barbara Streisan, Jay Z, Spike Lee,
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: Rosie Perez, Mike Tyson, like the list goes on. I've
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: always said, like, there's something in the water in Brooklyn,
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: but it's it's not the water. It's sort of this
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: intersection of grit and resilience and culture. It's a very
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: special place to grow up. I agree, And I imagine.
• 8:56
  Speaker 5: You you have this.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: You loved acting when I hear you talk about the
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: way you would share it with your dad, Like you
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: really love film and you love the art of it.
• 9:05
  Speaker 1: And I think of you moving to la and trying
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: this all for the first time and bringing that Brooklyn
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: grit and resilience was not welcome. Well, how would it
• 9:18
  Speaker 1: shape you in this industry that can often be unforgiving?
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: Oh my god, it's so unforgiving. Well, coming right out
• 9:26
  Speaker 3: of school, I would grow up. I grew up in
• 9:28
  Speaker 3: Brooklyn until around ten and then moved to Staten Island
• 9:32
  Speaker 3: and grew up around Mafia. So it was like talk
• 9:36
  Speaker 3: about grit. You had to be gritty and street smart.
• 9:41
  Speaker 3: And grew up in a crazy house. And I left
• 9:44
  Speaker 3: when I was eighteen and put myself through school in Manhattan.
• 9:49
  Speaker 3: Wanted to go to NYU's film school, couldn't wind up
• 9:52
  Speaker 3: taking acting. So when I got out of acting school
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: and one of my first big things, like I was
• 9:59
  Speaker 3: doing plays nothing and I was, you know, doing these
• 10:02
  Speaker 3: little independent small films. It was just joy. But when
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: I got my first big thing, it was with Spike
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: and I was playing a girl from Brooklyn, and I
• 10:16
  Speaker 3: knew I was capable of doing everything else because I
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: was in school doing it. I was in plays doing it,
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: and then Hollywood sees you do something well and that's it.
• 10:28
  Speaker 3: And then I was like catapulted into Hollywood and here
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: I am showing up like hey, what's up?
• 10:35
  Speaker 6: Like hey, yeah, that's like and a different work ethic
• 10:39
  Speaker 6: and of like, you know, someone asked me a question,
• 10:43
  Speaker 6: so what do you think of the third act? Oh?
• 10:47
  Speaker 3: I think this. It's like, oh no, that's not a question.
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: But these are the things you learn when a man
• 10:52
  Speaker 3: is asking that's not a question. I remember getting in trouble.
• 10:55
  Speaker 5: For that interesting. It was rhetorical, it was.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: A yeah, it was to be like it's great, and
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: then even you know, going further the way I looked.
• 11:05
  Speaker 3: I wasn't supposed to be smart. I wasn't supposed to
• 11:08
  Speaker 3: have an opinion. So it was a real learning curve
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: for me, for sure. It was a learning curve of like, oh,
• 11:18
  Speaker 3: and it was taken like this isn't she funny? Isn't like, well, no,
• 11:23
  Speaker 3: I'm being serious. It was like I was the character,
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: but I would overpower. Sometimes the lead character actor is
• 11:32
  Speaker 3: supposed to be quirky, and I didn't look quirky, So
• 11:37
  Speaker 3: it was like where do we put her kind of thing?
• 11:40
  Speaker 6: Right?
• 11:40
  Speaker 5: You had leading lady energy, and I.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: Was totally told that I was ethnic. Back then, I
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: was the ethnic. I was the flavor, which is, yeah,
• 11:53
  Speaker 3: so many things wrong with this conversation. Yeah, So it
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: was a lot to take as a young woman. It
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: was a real lot to take knowing being told that
• 12:04
  Speaker 3: everything that I was was incorrect for the leading lady
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: and that was really hard to bear. We were told
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: coming up when I was coming up, you know, Julia
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Roberts and Cameron Diaz, that was like the goal. That
• 12:21
  Speaker 3: was the goal. Like that's that's the essence of leading lady.
• 12:25
  Speaker 3: And it was like, okay, I try and be that.
• 12:30
  Speaker 3: So I tried for years to stuff my size nine
• 12:35
  Speaker 3: foot into a perfectly dainty size six. And I really
• 12:39
  Speaker 3: did try, very very many years, and still had so
• 12:43
  Speaker 3: much pain and shame that I couldn't do it that
• 12:48
  Speaker 3: I could. I actually had a manager, a female manager,
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: sit me down and say, you really need to be
• 12:55
  Speaker 3: more like Cameron Diaz, and I was like, I don't
• 12:58
  Speaker 3: know how to do that. I grew around mafia and
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: playing kickball in the street with like gangsters, Like how
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: do I do that? How do I do that? Tell
• 13:08
  Speaker 3: me how to do that?
• 13:09
  Speaker 5: How do I be a care free blonde surfer girl?
• 13:13
  Speaker 3: Exactly? How do I do that? I was working since
• 13:16
  Speaker 3: I was thirteen years old like how do I how
• 13:18
  Speaker 3: do I do that? And knowing that if I didn't
• 13:22
  Speaker 3: do that, I was really not accepted into the main
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: frame of what I wanted. So I was kept like
• 13:32
  Speaker 3: and that that was definitely shaped my who I am now,
• 13:37
  Speaker 3: which is which is a good and bad thing, because
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: you know, I missed a lot of opportunity because I
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: was I was. My manager told me one time, I
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: was like very right for a part, and I didn't
• 13:49
  Speaker 3: get it. Well, why they said you were not the
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: girl next door? And I was like, I have neighbors,
• 13:56
  Speaker 3: I live next door to people, Like I don't what
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: is that just because of the way I speak or
• 14:02
  Speaker 3: the way because I'm ethnic And now, yeah, I'm still
• 14:08
  Speaker 3: not the white leading lady girl, but I'm not. I'm
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: not ethnic ethnic either, you know, like real ethnicity that
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: they're finally allowing roles now. But I'm caught in the middle.
• 14:23
  Speaker 3: So yeah, it's it's so ridiculous. It's like we have
• 14:28
  Speaker 3: in this business. They tend to put you all in boxes.
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: This is this, that's this, this is that, and then
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: even further when you get into like who makes money,
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: who doesn't make money? Like who means something? It's so insane.
• 14:44
  Speaker 3: And that's one of the reasons why I was so
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: passionate about getting Fresh Kills done, because I was just
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: the whole essence of the movie is about trying a
• 14:55
  Speaker 3: voice in a world that tells you not to have one,
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: and getting out of the boxes that you would either
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: born into or put into. And I felt like I
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: was very much put into a box. And then you
• 15:07
  Speaker 3: get older, as a female and the lid is closed
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: and it's locked, and you're thrown in the ocean with
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: a weight and it's like bye bye, We'll never see
• 15:17
  Speaker 3: you again, and it's yeah, yeah, it was definitely hard.
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: It sounds like it was almost the birth of this
• 15:24
  Speaker 1: sort of like rebellious spirit because all these people were
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: willing to play the game, so to speak, and you
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: just wanted to throw it out.
• 15:32
  Speaker 3: And I tell you, but that's the thing I tried.
• 15:35
  Speaker 3: That's what's so sad is I actually was trying. I
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: remember I never forget having to go to like big
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: you know, when shows are getting introduced, and I remember
• 15:47
  Speaker 3: literally saying, try to make me as like all Americans.
• 15:53
  Speaker 3: I'm not joking, and like, how sad that I would
• 15:56
  Speaker 3: say that, Like why am I? I'm not American? Right?
• 15:59
  Speaker 3: Because I didn't fit the image of what I was
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: being sold was all American. So I'd like the hair
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: was like really straight and I blonde it, and it's like,
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: oh where the skirt and the this and everything? And
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: then still it would be like, You're not fooling anyone.
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: I was like, I would really get very upset at
• 16:20
  Speaker 3: myself for not doing it better, but not speaking better
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: for not saying things correctly, and I just at a
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: certain point then it was like, Okay, fuck this, I
• 16:35
  Speaker 3: can't do this, I'm not this, I'm not fooling anybody.
• 16:39
  Speaker 3: I can't do this, not going to do it. And
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: then that's a different that's a whole different awakening and
• 16:45
  Speaker 3: the mourning of all the time you wasted.
• 16:48
  Speaker 5: Yes, I understand that deeply.
• 16:50
  Speaker 1: I have a lot of curiosity around your twenties in LA.
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: I think for people to understand the momentum and the
• 17:01
  Speaker 1: gravity of fresh kills, I think they need to understand
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: who you were and what you were fighting for even
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: in your twenties.
• 17:08
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: Are you fighting over every role or are things coming
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: easy to you? Because like you were in he got
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: game yet now you're in the mix, right, That's how
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: acting works. Like nothing is promised, but you're sort of
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: in the mix. Now, what is your life like in
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: your twenties personally and professionally?
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: My goodness, so got out of school, Spike Lee happened,
• 17:32
  Speaker 3: blew up after that, But I like, you don't get
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: a letter like saying you're about to explode. You don't
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: get that. So it's just like I'm doing my work
• 17:42
  Speaker 3: because I was in school for three years in lesh
• 17:44
  Speaker 3: Strasburg studying, like doing plays and some really deep, gorgeous work,
• 17:49
  Speaker 3: and then doing independent films and so then doing Spikes
• 17:55
  Speaker 3: film and it was like, holy cow, this is the stuff.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: This is the stuff. And then right from there, like
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: I said, got catapulted into a different time zone, like
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: a whole different.
• 18:07
  Speaker 5: Is that when spin City happened.
• 18:10
  Speaker 3: Spin City was I was on there for a year
• 18:15
  Speaker 3: and that was wonderful, but it was still you know,
• 18:17
  Speaker 3: it was on TV. It was wonderful, but Spike Lee
• 18:20
  Speaker 3: that was my heart, Like that was my heart, Spike
• 18:22
  Speaker 3: Lee doing films. And that's when things catapulted me to
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: a different time zone. And then it was I had
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: three huge opportunities. I had two huge opportunities. At first,
• 18:36
  Speaker 3: it was a huge producer and a huge movie to
• 18:41
  Speaker 3: play again not the lead that I was perfect for.
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: I actually remember the audition and I remember you had
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: a sing and I did this whole thing and I
• 18:53
  Speaker 3: did this audition and I remember the big producer said
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: to me, that was fantastic. Would love for you to
• 19:00
  Speaker 3: teach the person that I'm going to give this role
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: how to act this role. And I was like, okay,
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: I didn't know what that meant, and.
• 19:10
  Speaker 6: They gave me like the wise cracking bartender, and I
• 19:13
  Speaker 6: was like, I don't want to do that.
• 19:15
  Speaker 5: Yeah, that's demoralizing.
• 19:16
  Speaker 3: And at the same time, I was sitting with John
• 19:19
  Speaker 3: Singleton who was doing a movie back then called Shaft,
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: and he was a filmmaker. I wanted to work with
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: him and got hired. And the producer on that was
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: a notorious villain and I was warned, be very careful.
• 19:37
  Speaker 3: This person could destroy you. And I was like, can
• 19:41
  Speaker 3: we elaborate? What does that? What does that mean to
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: a twenty to a twenty five, twenty five year old kid? Like,
• 19:49
  Speaker 3: what what does that mean? What does that mean? All
• 19:54
  Speaker 3: I knew was acting, like that's all I knew. Like
• 19:56
  Speaker 3: I didn't know about fame and like politics, and I
• 20:00
  Speaker 3: did not understand. All I knew was this is a
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: great role. That's it. And I went and I auditioned
• 20:07
  Speaker 3: for John, I got this role whatever, And I wound
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: up getting this role and then was tortured by this
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: producer in so many different ways.
• 20:16
  Speaker 5: Does that change you?
• 20:17
  Speaker 3: I tell you what changed me was when he got
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: rid of.
• 20:21
  Speaker 5: Me, because you just wanted to work I just wanted.
• 20:24
  Speaker 3: I actually stood there sobbing, please just let me work,
• 20:28
  Speaker 3: and I was told I was too glamorous looking for
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: the role. I was told I was everything.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: I mean.
• 20:33
  Speaker 3: He'd call me and when I wasn't working and tell
• 20:36
  Speaker 3: me I better get to set right now, and then
• 20:38
  Speaker 3: he'd put me in a closet and make me do
• 20:40
  Speaker 3: off camera lines and like leave me in the clock.
• 20:43
  Speaker 3: Like it was really harassment. He was trying actively trying
• 20:46
  Speaker 3: to get someone else for this role that he wanted
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: because him and John were at odds big time. He
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: fired like three choices that John had and I was
• 20:56
  Speaker 3: one of them. I think Terrence Howard was another, and
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: another huge actor anyway, So what happened though after that
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: and being fired so early in my career from something
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: so huge was very difficult. But three weeks after that,
• 21:10
  Speaker 3: I wind up going up for a huge role and
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: getting it and then it being taken because that person
• 21:23
  Speaker 3: totally blackballed me. That was so pivotal and so painful
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: because from that it was so beyond wrong, illegal, all
• 21:33
  Speaker 3: of it. But when I went to my agents and manager,
• 21:36
  Speaker 3: so I was like, you have to, like, you have
• 21:39
  Speaker 3: to help me, and I knew it was for certain
• 21:42
  Speaker 3: because it was John I think was John Singleton that
• 21:45
  Speaker 3: had called me and said he's going after you, just
• 21:47
  Speaker 3: so you know he's coming for you.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: What is coming for you mean as somebody who's not
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: in the acting world, What does that mean?
• 21:54
  Speaker 3: Blackballing you? Blackballing you like, oh you said I locked
• 21:58
  Speaker 3: myself in my trailer when I was a drug addict, Like,
• 22:01
  Speaker 3: never took a drug in my life.
• 22:02
  Speaker 5: It's just not me, wow, it's your reputation is everything.
• 22:06
  Speaker 3: And exactly so I was destroyed. And when I went
• 22:10
  Speaker 3: to my agents and managers, they were like, we can't
• 22:14
  Speaker 3: help you. We have to work with him. And I
• 22:17
  Speaker 3: was literally given to some kid on a desk. That
• 22:21
  Speaker 3: was it. I was done in one phone call. This
• 22:24
  Speaker 3: person destroyed a kid's life, he destroyed my career.
• 22:31
  Speaker 5: And this is pre social media.
• 22:32
  Speaker 1: So you have no like, you really have no voice,
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: you have no recourse.
• 22:37
  Speaker 3: Nothing, And I felt like I was assaulted rapes like
• 22:42
  Speaker 3: with no nothing, especially for someone like me who is
• 22:46
  Speaker 3: so injustice is really like a like it's it's really
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: like a painful thing to me seeing it, feeling.
• 22:55
  Speaker 5: It is this person still in Hollywood.
• 22:58
  Speaker 3: Yes, but has been called out big time, so he's
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: pushed to the side, but this person, yeah, huge, And
• 23:07
  Speaker 3: it really just got to a point where I was
• 23:10
  Speaker 3: just fighting, fighting the ghost of who people thought I
• 23:15
  Speaker 3: was constantly even.
• 23:17
  Speaker 6: To this day.
• 23:18
  Speaker 3: And then at a certain point, I gotta be honest.
• 23:20
  Speaker 3: You go, fuck it. Yeah, you think I'm that way?
• 23:23
  Speaker 3: Fuck you right, And that's not helpful either, because I
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: see you watching me out of one eye, like I
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: see it. And when you're waiting for someone to you're
• 23:33
  Speaker 3: gonna find something.
• 23:35
  Speaker 6: Right.
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: It's like when you go through someone's phone exactly exactly.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Like I remember being on one set and the guy
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: that was playing my partner on the show had an
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: addiction problem. Everyone knew it. Everyone knew it. He would
• 23:50
  Speaker 3: come to work drunk and high and his car he
• 23:55
  Speaker 3: would drive his car over the medium to get into
• 23:58
  Speaker 3: the lot and like and like like smelled about call
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: like for god iss, you know, just but I was
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: the one from the set that got like it was like, really,
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: it's funny because he because I remember speaking up when
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: they asked the one of the girls to get botox
• 24:17
  Speaker 3: because she was looking, Oh can you get botox? And
• 24:19
  Speaker 3: the girl said no, and soon then she got fired.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: Basically because she looked too old, and I was like,
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: this is shit, this is shit. And I was the one,
• 24:28
  Speaker 3: you know, that got in trouble and it was like,
• 24:31
  Speaker 3: it's just a really different world for female, for young
• 24:35
  Speaker 3: female in the industry, it's a really different world. And
• 24:39
  Speaker 3: it still is like you need to really know that
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: it is a different world for you. And as a
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: young kid, it was. It was just brutal, but that
• 24:49
  Speaker 3: moment was fresh kills. I always say it's for that
• 24:56
  Speaker 3: twenty six year old kid who was destroyed. This movie
• 25:01
  Speaker 3: was for that kid that did not get a fair shake.
• 25:06
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I was your retribution, Yes.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Because I knew I had a huge career in front
• 25:13
  Speaker 3: of me and he just took me out by the
• 25:15
  Speaker 3: knees and I just was like for twenty years, I
• 25:18
  Speaker 3: was like, I can't let this happen. How do I
• 25:22
  Speaker 3: get back on my feet? How do I get back
• 25:23
  Speaker 3: on my feet? And anything I did it just wasn't working.
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: And it was this voice in my head it said,
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: you know what to do. You know what to do
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: because I had this idea since I was growing up
• 25:35
  Speaker 3: around Mafia. I had this idea forever and I remember
• 25:40
  Speaker 3: sitting with a friend thirty years ago and telling them
• 25:43
  Speaker 3: the idea before this happened, and him saying, oh, the
• 25:48
  Speaker 3: perfect name for this is Fresh Kills. It was like,
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: oh my god, yes it is. So I had the
• 25:53
  Speaker 3: idea and the name. Always whenever I got into this
• 25:56
  Speaker 3: place of like what do I do? Oh, this always
• 26:00
  Speaker 3: would come in, go you know what you're supposed to do?
• 26:02
  Speaker 3: Write it? And it was like I can't write it,
• 26:05
  Speaker 3: Yes you can, No, I can't. And I did that
• 26:07
  Speaker 3: for twenty five years until I got so so beyond
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: painfully sad and disappointed in the career and what I
• 26:17
  Speaker 3: was seeing for females and what I was seeing for
• 26:19
  Speaker 3: myself being pushed aside because I was older, or I
• 26:23
  Speaker 3: was this, or I was told I was that. I
• 26:25
  Speaker 3: was so tired of it that I was just like,
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: what are you going to do? Now you're going to cry?
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Are you going to do something? Do something? And this table,
• 26:33
  Speaker 3: this exact table, I sat down six years ago, six
• 26:38
  Speaker 3: six years ago, six seven years ago and staid, you're
• 26:41
  Speaker 3: not getting up until you finish the script.
• 26:44
  Speaker 5: How'd you know? It was good?
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: Like you're a first time filmmaker, and I know you're
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: a cinophile at heart, like you sort of glossed over
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: the beginning that you couldn't go to NYU Film School,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: but you really that's what you wanted.
• 26:57
  Speaker 5: You couldn't afford to go, and so you went into acting.
• 27:00
  Speaker 3: YEP.
• 27:00
  Speaker 1: So to me, when I look at the arc of
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: your hero's journey, I'm like, this is such a beautiful,
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: full circle moment. But I know that it's intertwined with
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: twenty years of a lot of pain and struggle a lot.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: But you sit down at this table, how do you
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: even know that this is a great script?
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: You know? Of course you don't. At first, you know
• 27:22
  Speaker 3: you don't. You keep writing, But I will tell you,
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: for twenty five thirty years in this industry of reading
• 27:30
  Speaker 3: a lot of crap, to.
• 27:31
  Speaker 6: Be honest and listen, it's not even that a bad
• 27:34
  Speaker 6: or good. Even the ones that are good, there's still
• 27:38
  Speaker 6: I can name fifteen that I've read that are like
• 27:42
  Speaker 6: that's wow.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: But there's a lot that is missing. And usually it's
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: character development and female characters.
• 27:52
  Speaker 6: Yeah, because I played them. I've been on sets where
• 27:55
  Speaker 6: I was like, hey, does she have a last name?
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: No?
• 27:58
  Speaker 7: Okay, great, do we know where she's like? No, okay,
• 28:02
  Speaker 7: that's great. I'll just create all of that. So then
• 28:05
  Speaker 7: that's part of the actor's job. But still it is
• 28:08
  Speaker 7: the writer's job to like, let's develop these women because
• 28:14
  Speaker 7: of his majority. When I was coming up with male.
• 28:17
  Speaker 3: Writers, they weren't writing these women fully. And what I
• 28:20
  Speaker 3: studied in school was character development. I had a wonderful
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: teacher named George Lowis who would make us read psychology books.
• 28:30
  Speaker 6: And that's like why people do what they do fascinates me,
• 28:36
  Speaker 6: fascinates me, Like I love that.
• 28:39
  Speaker 5: That's the mark of a great actor.
• 28:41
  Speaker 6: So sitting down and going from A to B two
• 28:46
  Speaker 6: C in every character, in every scene, why am I
• 28:50
  Speaker 6: doing that?
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: Why am I doing that? That's the goal? How do
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: I get there? Why does this go to here? And
• 28:56
  Speaker 3: then that goes through the how do I get to
• 28:59
  Speaker 3: that place? And it's connecting those dots. And then it's
• 29:03
  Speaker 3: also I think I teach as well, and I always
• 29:06
  Speaker 3: say this to my students, like you have to be human.
• 29:13
  Speaker 3: We are not perfect, we are not all good, we
• 29:16
  Speaker 3: are not all bad. We are all things. Show the ugly, show,
• 29:21
  Speaker 3: the brutal show, the sexies show, the gross show, the
• 29:25
  Speaker 3: brutality of being human, show how ugly people can be
• 29:32
  Speaker 3: to each other, Show how wonderful they can be to
• 29:35
  Speaker 3: each other. No one is all good and no one
• 29:37
  Speaker 3: is all bad.
• 29:38
  Speaker 5: What is showing that require?
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: And that's exactly what the classes are about. The classes
• 29:43
  Speaker 3: become who are you? Like? I just finished a class
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: called What's Your Story? So we're all writing these things,
• 29:50
  Speaker 3: and all these students are writing these things, and then
• 29:53
  Speaker 3: they talk about them and I'm like, why are you
• 29:55
  Speaker 3: writing it? And they have absolutely no idea? Right, It's
• 29:58
  Speaker 3: like I knew why it was writing fresh kills. I
• 30:01
  Speaker 3: was exercising something that I needed to say, which was
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: voice escape, not being told who.
• 30:12
  Speaker 6: I am, learning growing into who I am?
• 30:17
  Speaker 3: That is huge for me. That is present in every
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: frame of the film. It is present on every page
• 30:25
  Speaker 3: of the script. So if you do not understand your
• 30:28
  Speaker 3: why of why you're writing something.
• 30:32
  Speaker 6: You can have the inciting incident on the right page,
• 30:36
  Speaker 6: and you can have the you know, act change on
• 30:38
  Speaker 6: the right page, and the hero's journey.
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: And all this shit. But if you don't underneath have
• 30:45
  Speaker 3: the essence and the heart and the passion of why
• 30:48
  Speaker 3: you're saying what you're saying, does it matter. There's a
• 30:52
  Speaker 3: lot of wonderful writers out there, and that's what you know,
• 30:55
  Speaker 3: I had a meeting for like, to be a writer
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: for hire for something, and I was like, I'm not this, guys,
• 31:01
  Speaker 3: I'm not this, I'm not that writer. I am not
• 31:04
  Speaker 3: that writer.
• 31:05
  Speaker 5: I'm not hearing you.
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: I feel like you must have made every actor you've
• 31:09
  Speaker 1: ever dated so much better at their job or crazy.
• 31:12
  Speaker 6: No, you remember, males usually don't like women who know
• 31:19
  Speaker 6: something and they're you know, can bring something to the table.
• 31:23
  Speaker 3: You have to go, oh, no, that was amazing. That
• 31:25
  Speaker 3: was amazing, especially male actors, especially male actors. Let's be honest,
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: very faily go there.
• 31:32
  Speaker 1: I have questions about that. I get the sense that
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: you're pretty private and always have been. Maybe that's part
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: of the code of conduct when you grow up around mafia.
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: But you know, I've heard people say that once you're famous,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: you're famous forever. So you were, even though you had
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: that period of time where you felt like you weren't
• 31:51
  Speaker 1: booking the roles that you wanted. You were recognizable. People
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: knew your face, they knew your name. How does that
• 31:58
  Speaker 1: affect your personal life? Are you were you weary about dating?
• 32:02
  Speaker 6: It's funny because I get that people may know me,
• 32:06
  Speaker 6: But then I think a lot of people don't know me.
• 32:08
  Speaker 3: I think they think, like, oh I recognize her from
• 32:10
  Speaker 3: like did we go to school together? I don't think,
• 32:14
  Speaker 3: I don't. I also also I also like I think
• 32:18
  Speaker 3: also living in New York, people just don't care.
• 32:21
  Speaker 5: Yeah, maybe that's the difference.
• 32:23
  Speaker 3: We don't care.
• 32:24
  Speaker 6: Like I'm in the gym, I look like I was
• 32:26
  Speaker 6: beaten and I'm like singing to myself.
• 32:30
  Speaker 3: And I'm lifting with people. They're like, that's a crazy person.
• 32:34
  Speaker 3: And I also walk around like that's one thing I
• 32:37
  Speaker 3: have to say from being really over sexualized in an industry,
• 32:42
  Speaker 3: and it's really not who I am. It's like really
• 32:45
  Speaker 3: not who I am, like really so, and especially with
• 32:50
  Speaker 3: my film and I remember, you know, I give my
• 32:55
  Speaker 3: my my script for people to read and it was like, oh,
• 32:58
  Speaker 3: Jennifer Esposito wrote this, and it was like, I know,
• 33:02
  Speaker 3: you're shocked that I have a brain. And so that
• 33:06
  Speaker 3: really bothered me. So somewhere along the way, I don't
• 33:09
  Speaker 3: know when it started, I started to really hide. So
• 33:17
  Speaker 3: I don't ever wear a lot of makeup, but i'd
• 33:19
  Speaker 3: start wearing none and my hair is usually a disaster,
• 33:24
  Speaker 3: or my hats or like huge clothes because I didn't
• 33:28
  Speaker 3: want to show my figure. And the amount of times
• 33:32
  Speaker 3: that when I was working and I would be like that,
• 33:35
  Speaker 3: and then I would get dressed and be and work,
• 33:37
  Speaker 3: and the amount of times that men on set would
• 33:39
  Speaker 3: be like, well you clean up. Well, it's like I
• 33:43
  Speaker 3: don't need to hear that.
• 33:45
  Speaker 5: Wow, And they.
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: Think it's fine. It's like it's probably.
• 33:48
  Speaker 6: Fine, but really, like you know, it's just like you
• 33:53
  Speaker 6: don't want to push anybody into a place where they
• 33:55
  Speaker 6: don't feel like they.
• 33:56
  Speaker 3: Can give you a compliment. But they also don't understand
• 34:00
  Speaker 3: and that it's a very detrimental thing to constantly be
• 34:06
  Speaker 3: looked at physically.
• 34:09
  Speaker 5: That's such an interesting distinction.
• 34:12
  Speaker 3: So many other things go away. Even I see it
• 34:15
  Speaker 3: with other women, And that's a whole other topic. I
• 34:18
  Speaker 3: remember being on set on something and I had my
• 34:22
  Speaker 3: bakery because I owned a bakery for five years and
• 34:28
  Speaker 3: it was a passion thing of mine because I diagnosed
• 34:30
  Speaker 3: with silic disease and that's a whole other story, and
• 34:33
  Speaker 3: I wanted to help the community because they had helped
• 34:37
  Speaker 3: me so much figure out what was wrong with me.
• 34:39
  Speaker 3: So I created all these recipes and I had this
• 34:42
  Speaker 3: beautiful bakery that I baked in and people like you're
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: actually baking, Like, yes, I'm actually yes, yes, And I'd
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: meet all the people and i'd be there, you know,
• 34:53
  Speaker 3: every day. And then I got this job and I
• 34:55
  Speaker 3: was on set and I'd be dealing with the bakery
• 34:57
  Speaker 3: from set. And then my book that I wrote went
• 35:00
  Speaker 3: to a New York Times bestseller. And I remember another
• 35:03
  Speaker 3: female on set that was a guest star that she
• 35:07
  Speaker 3: was like, Wow, you're one of those And I said,
• 35:10
  Speaker 3: what do you mean? She said, you have all those things,
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: so you're annoying, right? Is that it? So you're one
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: of those annoying women.
• 35:18
  Speaker 5: Wow?
• 35:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that is the way I mean, we could
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: see it in the country. Now. There's a level that
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: you're supposed to hit as a female, and you're not
• 35:29
  Speaker 3: supposed to be all the things you're not supposed to be.
• 35:34
  Speaker 3: And especially for women that weren't allowed to get to
• 35:38
  Speaker 3: a certain place, or who have held themselves back or
• 35:42
  Speaker 3: they feel like they've been held back. I get that anger,
• 35:45
  Speaker 3: but it shouldn't come out at other women. It does,
• 35:49
  Speaker 3: it does.
• 35:50
  Speaker 1: I think you're right though, we see it if we
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: look at the public eye when we have like a
• 35:55
  Speaker 1: takedown of women, it's sort of a warning shot for
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: everybody else famous or not that this is what happens
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: when you are so full.
• 36:04
  Speaker 3: There you go, there you go. I mean, look at
• 36:06
  Speaker 3: what they're they're doing it to Ariana Grande right now.
• 36:10
  Speaker 3: In for with Wicked, they talk about her appearance constantly,
• 36:14
  Speaker 3: like you can't be too many things as a woman,
• 36:18
  Speaker 3: like you can't. It happened with me. I went on
• 36:21
  Speaker 3: Kelly and Mark Show and I was talking about a
• 36:26
  Speaker 3: movie in which I wrote, directed, produced, funded. I'm in.
• 36:32
  Speaker 3: I did it all outside the system. It's won numerous
• 36:35
  Speaker 3: awards and the and I'm talking about this movie and
• 36:38
  Speaker 3: People magazine picks it up but talks about the second
• 36:42
  Speaker 3: segment where they're talking about my husband. That's what they put.
• 36:46
  Speaker 3: They put a whole article and it said who's Jennifer'spisi
• 36:49
  Speaker 3: doot marry it to? And and oh he drove up
• 36:52
  Speaker 3: on his wind surfing and they got married on the beach.
• 36:56
  Speaker 3: It said nothing, nothing about my film, nothing And it
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: was just out in theaters. It was like, that isn't blatant.
• 37:05
  Speaker 3: Like you get back to where you're supposed to be.
• 37:10
  Speaker 3: You're supposed to be here, especially at your age, you're
• 37:15
  Speaker 3: supposed to be here, not supposed to be all those things,
• 37:19
  Speaker 3: and I went out publicly and took to social media.
• 37:22
  Speaker 3: God loved social media because, like you said, coming up,
• 37:25
  Speaker 3: I didn't have that. And I went to social media
• 37:29
  Speaker 3: and they had to shut off their comments because I
• 37:32
  Speaker 3: definitely have a wonderfully strong base and they were pissed.
• 37:38
  Speaker 3: They were pissed. People were making videos all over the place,
• 37:43
  Speaker 3: and it was like.
• 37:44
  Speaker 5: You started a movement with that.
• 37:47
  Speaker 3: I literally I got an email. I got an email
• 37:51
  Speaker 3: from the editor. She was like, I'm very sorry. I
• 37:54
  Speaker 3: didn't know how that happened. And I said, okay. She
• 37:57
  Speaker 3: wanted to do something else, I said, put me on
• 37:59
  Speaker 3: the cover. Should I can't? I said, okay, okay, I
• 38:04
  Speaker 3: get it. Peace, we're at piece.
• 38:06
  Speaker 6: I didn't tell anybody to do anything, but you can't
• 38:10
  Speaker 6: do that to females anymore.
• 38:12
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 38:13
  Speaker 1: You know, after all these decades and having played roles
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: that range from comedic to deeply dramatic, like in Fresh Kills,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: when you look at your body of work, is there
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: a pattern or a theme that you think have unconsciously
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: guided your choices?
• 38:30
  Speaker 6: You know?
• 38:31
  Speaker 3: I wish I could say that most of my career
• 38:33
  Speaker 3: was choices, but it really was people look at my career.
• 38:37
  Speaker 3: I'll take me as an example, and they think, wow, Wow,
• 38:41
  Speaker 3: she had all those choices. I didn't. I fought for
• 38:44
  Speaker 3: everything I got. Maybe a few things were given to me.
• 38:49
  Speaker 3: But I will be honest, I can name on one
• 38:53
  Speaker 3: hand the things that I was really like so inspired
• 38:59
  Speaker 3: by a lot of the other things will work, like
• 39:02
  Speaker 3: I had to work how to make a living and
• 39:05
  Speaker 3: do you know you find a good element in there somewhere.
• 39:08
  Speaker 3: But the work that I'm drawn to is fresh kills.
• 39:13
  Speaker 3: This is Summer of sam That's the work I'm drawn to.
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: And listen to an interview you did with Brookshields and
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: you said, even though that period was so difficult, it
• 39:25
  Speaker 1: was also a beautiful time because if I wasn't that kid,
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: I would have never been this woman. M do you
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: feel burned by Hollywood? Like?
• 39:36
  Speaker 5: How do you in reflection? How do you feel? Now?
• 39:40
  Speaker 8: Oh?
• 39:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah, with this movie especially this movie has some of
• 39:44
  Speaker 3: the best reviews of any movie in the season in
• 39:49
  Speaker 3: the entire year, as a ninety two from critics and
• 39:53
  Speaker 3: a ninety four from the audience. And you tell me
• 39:58
  Speaker 3: what movie, yeah, has that that is up for all
• 40:01
  Speaker 3: the awards? Now let me know, because I can't find it.
• 40:05
  Speaker 3: And I am not saying this to boast. That is
• 40:07
  Speaker 3: not who I am. I'm not saying it's brag. I'm
• 40:10
  Speaker 3: not saying it because I want to give the double
• 40:12
  Speaker 3: digits to everyone, like you didn't believe in me. That
• 40:15
  Speaker 3: is not it. What is it is the fact that
• 40:21
  Speaker 3: people are not finding this film because we don't have
• 40:24
  Speaker 3: the big budget to blow it out to everyone. We
• 40:29
  Speaker 3: don't have the big names. I am a female, do
• 40:33
  Speaker 3: you know. I have had male reviewers right in their reviews.
• 40:39
  Speaker 3: If Jennifer was a man, this movie would be catapulted
• 40:43
  Speaker 3: to the top. And because she is not, we don't
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: know about this film. That destroys me. That destroys me.
• 40:54
  Speaker 3: It also destroys me because Emily Bader, who plays Rose,
• 40:59
  Speaker 3: and Odessa'son who plays Connie, give two of the best
• 41:03
  Speaker 3: performances of the year, and they should be recognized.
• 41:08
  Speaker 1: I've heard how how they felt like your set was
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: a different kind of set too, and so for you
• 41:13
  Speaker 1: to be able to give them such a different experience
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: than you had is pretty wonderful.
• 41:17
  Speaker 3: I had to. I had to. I had to. That's
• 41:21
  Speaker 3: something another reviewer, a male, wrote and said, I feel
• 41:25
  Speaker 3: like Jennifer was giving these characters to the younger generation,
• 41:32
  Speaker 3: which she wished she would have had, and that is
• 41:35
  Speaker 3: exactly exactly correct. I mean, I originally thought, I told you,
• 41:41
  Speaker 3: I thought about the script for a long time. So
• 41:43
  Speaker 3: originally I was Rose and then when I got too old,
• 41:46
  Speaker 3: it was like, okay, I'm Connie, and then I was like,
• 41:50
  Speaker 3: but you better get started because you got to be
• 41:53
  Speaker 3: the mother. There's no grandmother here, so you better figure
• 41:57
  Speaker 3: it out. But I did do that because I was
• 41:59
  Speaker 3: so tough of seeing what I was seeing for young women.
• 42:04
  Speaker 3: And what's so sad is the amount of agents that
• 42:08
  Speaker 3: blocked me from getting to their young female talent.
• 42:11
  Speaker 5: What they wouldn't want them to have a role.
• 42:15
  Speaker 8: I don't understand that because who was trusting Jennifer Esposito,
• 42:20
  Speaker 8: who they thought they knew with a film, And yeah,
• 42:27
  Speaker 8: it was really sad.
• 42:28
  Speaker 3: And I know if I was that young actress and
• 42:31
  Speaker 3: found out like, oh she called and you wouldn't let
• 42:33
  Speaker 3: me go in, or you said I was offer only
• 42:36
  Speaker 3: and you have no credits, or you know, and yeah
• 42:40
  Speaker 3: I wasn't getting submissions. It was, yeah, this whole journey.
• 42:45
  Speaker 3: So I don't want to make it personal, like oh,
• 42:49
  Speaker 3: people are out to get me. I don't want to
• 42:51
  Speaker 3: do that. But when you are told by a big
• 42:57
  Speaker 3: female at a studio, a big, big streaming studio, that
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: I love this and this is the best pitch I've
• 43:07
  Speaker 3: had in a long time, but I can't give you
• 43:10
  Speaker 3: the money because you're a first time female writer director,
• 43:12
  Speaker 3: it's very clear. It's just clear, Jennifer.
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: I'm having such a hard time understanding this. In twenty
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: twenty four, post times up, post me to they can
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: actually say that to you.
• 43:26
  Speaker 5: They say those.
• 43:27
  Speaker 3: Words, she said it right to me. That is crazy,
• 43:31
  Speaker 3: Yes and no. I was offered five million dollars if
• 43:34
  Speaker 3: I would step aside for a male director. I was
• 43:37
  Speaker 3: offered five million dollars if I would have gotten say
• 43:40
  Speaker 3: like Ethan Hawk, because he brings money to the table,
• 43:43
  Speaker 3: and most females don't unless you have one of the
• 43:48
  Speaker 3: like ten top females. That's why you see Nicole Kimmen
• 43:52
  Speaker 3: and everything, because she brings money to the table. I'm
• 43:57
  Speaker 3: set to direct something from an amazing and we are
• 44:02
  Speaker 3: looking for that woman that's going to green light it,
• 44:05
  Speaker 3: and the window is like this big. Yeah, it's so bad.
• 44:09
  Speaker 3: It's really still that bad. But when you say that,
• 44:13
  Speaker 3: and then you look at our culture and you look
• 44:15
  Speaker 3: at what's happening in our world with our rights, it's
• 44:18
  Speaker 3: really not hard to believe.
• 44:20
  Speaker 1: So you feel like some of this is like some
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: of the women's movement is kind of vanity, like behind
• 44:25
  Speaker 1: the scenes, a lot of it is still the same.
• 44:29
  Speaker 3: Listen, I was there for some of it, and I
• 44:32
  Speaker 3: could say that I really do believe some people's intentions
• 44:36
  Speaker 3: are one hundred percent to change things. However, we've been
• 44:39
  Speaker 3: so deeply conditioned to understand there's only one spot. We've
• 44:46
  Speaker 3: been so conditioned to compete. We are conditioned, and until
• 44:50
  Speaker 3: we deal with that conditioning and that internalized given structural
• 44:57
  Speaker 3: misogyny that we have, we're not moving anywhere. Because I
• 45:01
  Speaker 3: have to say, certain people that looked me straight in
• 45:04
  Speaker 3: the face, big females that can make a huge difference,
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: that could have made a huge difference for me with
• 45:09
  Speaker 3: fresh gales, didn't even answer my email.
• 45:12
  Speaker 5: Wow.
• 45:13
  Speaker 3: It's heartbreaking, and I don't blame anybody. Again, it's a
• 45:18
  Speaker 3: conditioning that we need to really heal because if women
• 45:23
  Speaker 3: really did women helping women, if they really did that,
• 45:27
  Speaker 3: we would be in a different position.
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: So you said that someone offered you five million dollars
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: if you stepped aside. Instead, you decide to mortgage your house. Yes,
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: so that's.
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: Like, don't do it.
• 45:43
  Speaker 1: One oh one in Hollywood and you know that you've
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: been in this industry, but yours.
• 45:48
  Speaker 5: Talk me through this decision. How does this come about?
• 45:52
  Speaker 3: It was a year into trying to find money, and
• 45:56
  Speaker 3: every time I got closed it was something, and it
• 45:58
  Speaker 3: was the five million dollars was like, you know, if
• 46:00
  Speaker 3: you had a male director who was more known, especially
• 46:03
  Speaker 3: because you have to remember I'm the first female to
• 46:06
  Speaker 3: step foot into mafia genre, Yeah, and flip it on
• 46:09
  Speaker 3: its head, we're gonna speak about the women. It was like,
• 46:12
  Speaker 3: who what? No, But we can keep telling the same
• 46:16
  Speaker 3: old mafia male story over and over and over again.
• 46:21
  Speaker 3: At nauseum. They just picked up another show about some
• 46:25
  Speaker 3: mafia dude, and it's like and big, people like, really
• 46:30
  Speaker 3: are we going to say this again? We're gonna say
• 46:32
  Speaker 3: the same story again from the same position. Sounds great,
• 46:35
  Speaker 3: sounds great? So I thought, Wow, this is a new idea.
• 46:39
  Speaker 3: People are going to be excited. And it's like I
• 46:41
  Speaker 3: can see their face when I get on a zoom
• 46:44
  Speaker 3: Because if we were in COVID, and it was like
• 46:45
  Speaker 3: they were excited. And I got on this zoom and
• 46:48
  Speaker 3: it was me and four men and I'm telling my
• 46:53
  Speaker 3: and then this and then that, and then the music
• 46:54
  Speaker 3: is of the time, and then then why it's changed
• 46:57
  Speaker 3: because of blah blah, and they're just looking at me.
• 47:00
  Speaker 3: And I stopped to breathe for a second, and one
• 47:02
  Speaker 3: of the guys goes, you're really passionate about this, aren't you.
• 47:08
  Speaker 3: And I just thought you would never ask a dude
• 47:12
  Speaker 3: that you'd never I can't do this anymore. I can't.
• 47:15
  Speaker 3: I can't do this anymore. So I got off the
• 47:18
  Speaker 3: phone the call, and I went to my husband and
• 47:22
  Speaker 3: I had I had bought the house, so it was mine.
• 47:28
  Speaker 3: But I went to my husband because obviously you know,
• 47:31
  Speaker 3: it's his house now too. But I said, I'm going
• 47:36
  Speaker 3: to take money out of the house. And he was
• 47:39
  Speaker 3: just like and he honestly did. He sat down because
• 47:42
  Speaker 3: he had been hearing it, and he went, do it.
• 47:46
  Speaker 3: Do it. It was like, I'm doing it, and it
• 47:50
  Speaker 3: was like okay, And still it wasn't enough, but it
• 47:53
  Speaker 3: got us moving. And then then I had smaller investors
• 47:57
  Speaker 3: come in here and there, and it was literally put
• 48:01
  Speaker 3: together by a hope and a prayer and stringing things along.
• 48:05
  Speaker 3: We shot the movie in twenty one days in COVID,
• 48:08
  Speaker 3: like it was anything I can do to Like, there
• 48:12
  Speaker 3: were other characters, there was a bigger family. I was
• 48:15
  Speaker 3: just like, I went from a script of like one
• 48:17
  Speaker 3: hundred and ten pages at first to ninety six. I
• 48:21
  Speaker 3: just kept to make it just as concise as I could. Yeah,
• 48:27
  Speaker 3: and I'm you know, I can't say I'll ever get
• 48:30
  Speaker 3: any of the money back any of it. Who knows.
• 48:34
  Speaker 3: And it's definitely not a comfortable position to be in.
• 48:37
  Speaker 3: I'll be very honest. But I knew that I could
• 48:43
  Speaker 3: not allow people to dictate and give me permission whether
• 48:48
  Speaker 3: or not I can create something that was too much
• 48:52
  Speaker 3: for me to handle. That was way too much for
• 48:54
  Speaker 3: me to handle.
• 48:55
  Speaker 1: I sort of viewed it as an investment in yourself
• 48:58
  Speaker 1: because now people look at you as a filmmaker.
• 49:02
  Speaker 5: That's right, and who knows where that goes.
• 49:05
  Speaker 3: That's right. But it was also for me. I would say,
• 49:08
  Speaker 3: on my dying day, am I gonna be like, Wow,
• 49:12
  Speaker 3: I'm so happy my mortgage was so set.
• 49:16
  Speaker 4: And my house was paid for? Or am I gonna
• 49:20
  Speaker 4: say I'm so happy. I had the balls to fucking
• 49:24
  Speaker 4: do something and leave an imprint on this world of something.
• 49:27
  Speaker 3: Beautiful in the for this movie that will stay longer
• 49:32
  Speaker 3: than I am here and give an insane platform for
• 49:36
  Speaker 3: those two young women who deserve it.
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: Yeah.
• 49:39
  Speaker 3: And so the talent of everybody in that production, from
• 49:44
  Speaker 3: the production designer to the DP to everybody, and the
• 49:49
  Speaker 3: amount of emails and dms I get from people, men
• 49:54
  Speaker 3: and women that say how this movie moved them, inspired them,
• 49:59
  Speaker 3: And I am rose the amount of women that have
• 50:02
  Speaker 3: come up to me with tears in their eyes. Yeah,
• 50:06
  Speaker 3: I am rose, like I'm the one that got out.
• 50:09
  Speaker 6: You know.
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: When I was watching, the thing that struck me the
• 50:12
  Speaker 1: most was how powerfully you portrayed female anger and rage.
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: And it was real rage, visceral, sometimes physical. But what
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: struck me the most was the emotional rage for sure,
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: and all of the women portrayed it differently, which was
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: I think made it so interesting. You Odessa, Emily even
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: excuse me, Annabella Anabella. Yeah, she was actually a really
• 50:40
  Speaker 1: interesting character to me. She's amazing and there was so
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: much nuance in the anger. I feel like you could
• 50:48
  Speaker 1: have made a movie about the women of the mafia
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: and touched on a lot of different emotions. That could
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: have been sadness, it could have been betrayal, but you
• 50:58
  Speaker 1: chose rage.
• 50:58
  Speaker 5: And I'm wondering why.
• 51:00
  Speaker 3: Well, I think all of those are there. It's just
• 51:03
  Speaker 3: like you said, it's how they chose to live in
• 51:08
  Speaker 3: the world with that. I think oppression when you are
• 51:13
  Speaker 3: oppressed as these women were and are because they can't speak,
• 51:21
  Speaker 3: their voice goes away, there is no out, So what
• 51:29
  Speaker 3: do you do?
• 51:32
  Speaker 5: What do you do?
• 51:34
  Speaker 3: Annabella's character turned it inward into an inward pain that
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: is very present, but an acceptance of like this is
• 51:44
  Speaker 3: my slot. Yeah, Connie turns it outward on the world.
• 51:54
  Speaker 3: Rose totally disappears and doesn't even know what to do
• 51:59
  Speaker 3: with it, and then when it comes out, she's disgusted
• 52:03
  Speaker 3: by it. And Francine, I'd like to say, is a
• 52:08
  Speaker 3: mixture of all and she is this deep sadness, this
• 52:15
  Speaker 3: deep sadness, but at a moment's notice, could explode like this,
• 52:22
  Speaker 3: like time bomb. That's just like this idol. It's Connie
• 52:27
  Speaker 3: in fifteen twenty years. It's who Connie would become because eventually,
• 52:34
  Speaker 3: as an adult, she can't go out and start punching
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: people in the face. So it's this, this, this simmer,
• 52:44
  Speaker 3: this vibration underneath the surface. That's how Francine was to me.
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: Your daughter gets into a fight in the film and
• 52:54
  Speaker 1: you're really upset by it, and you say this line
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: that gave me chills. And I don't know if it
• 52:59
  Speaker 1: did because I know your story, Like I almost wish
• 53:03
  Speaker 1: I could have watched the film without knowing more about
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: you yet. But you say, you get to a point
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: in your life where you have to accept that things
• 53:11
  Speaker 1: aren't really going to work out the way you dreamt
• 53:13
  Speaker 1: they were.
• 53:14
  Speaker 3: Yes, that's said by Annabella. But of course I wrote
• 53:18
  Speaker 3: those words right. That line hits, That hits, It hits
• 53:24
  Speaker 3: for me when I wrote it, like these are my words.
• 53:29
  Speaker 3: So every piece of it, like I said, it has
• 53:32
  Speaker 3: to come from something. You want someone to feel something,
• 53:36
  Speaker 3: you have to do it with feeling. You have to
• 53:38
  Speaker 3: put your heart into it. How are they going to
• 53:41
  Speaker 3: feel it if you don't feel it. So writing that
• 53:44
  Speaker 3: was such a line for me because it didn't turn
• 53:47
  Speaker 3: out the way it was supposed to or I thought
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: it was going to. But casting Annabella and knowing Anabella's story,
• 53:56
  Speaker 3: I knew when I filmed that line, I actually have it.
• 54:02
  Speaker 3: I have a taped conversation of her and I speaking
• 54:06
  Speaker 3: about that, and it was funny. She almost fought it.
• 54:10
  Speaker 3: She almost fought the pain of that line. I actually
• 54:14
  Speaker 3: have it, and it's one of my producers.
• 54:16
  Speaker 6: Was because I was giving her a note and we
• 54:18
  Speaker 6: had a long conversation about it, and while we were filming,
• 54:22
  Speaker 6: and my producer caught it on camera and I have
• 54:26
  Speaker 6: it and I watch it and I find it very fascinating.
• 54:29
  Speaker 3: She's also from Brooklyn and she's a fighter. And when
• 54:32
  Speaker 3: I was giving her a note, because I was seeing
• 54:34
  Speaker 3: like she wasn't like falling into the pain of that
• 54:38
  Speaker 3: like I had thought, and I realized she well, she
• 54:43
  Speaker 3: told me she was like, because I don't. I'm not done.
• 54:47
  Speaker 3: I'm not done like I'm And it was like it
• 54:50
  Speaker 3: was so beautiful, such a fight, so that the struggle
• 54:54
  Speaker 3: of that when she says that line in that moment,
• 54:58
  Speaker 3: to me, the tire movie standstill. It is so powerful.
• 55:03
  Speaker 3: Like her not being looked at as supporting actress, It's ridiculous.
• 55:10
  Speaker 3: It's ridiculous, and the Indie sp Awards should be ashamed
• 55:14
  Speaker 3: of themselves. They should be ashamed of themselves because they
• 55:17
  Speaker 3: say they're the Indie Spirit. I don't know a movie
• 55:20
  Speaker 3: that was more Indie Spirit, and I know there were
• 55:22
  Speaker 3: amazing movies out there, but to be completely forgotten by
• 55:25
  Speaker 3: the Indie Spirit Awards because of money. And if I
• 55:30
  Speaker 3: told you how much money it is to really be acknowledged,
• 55:34
  Speaker 3: Like the amount of money to just put yourself in
• 55:38
  Speaker 3: the contest is insane. And then the amount of money
• 55:42
  Speaker 3: for email blasts, and the amount of money for screenings,
• 55:45
  Speaker 3: and the amount of money we don't have a distributors
• 55:48
  Speaker 3: giving us anything, was all us And I think it's
• 55:52
  Speaker 3: really to not be recognized anywhere. Really sad, really sad.
• 55:59
  Speaker 5: I'm really surprised based on how great the film was.
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Me too.
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: When you're on set and you're seeing people read your words,
• 56:11
  Speaker 1: which I'm guessing maybe you've seen that because you teach,
• 56:14
  Speaker 1: But this is different.
• 56:15
  Speaker 5: It's your movie.
• 56:16
  Speaker 3: Oh yeah, totally different.
• 56:18
  Speaker 5: What does it feel like for you?
• 56:20
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's insane, It's insane. I did a reading a
• 56:24
  Speaker 3: couple of years prior and that was really exciting, and
• 56:27
  Speaker 3: Annabella did it. She read fen scene. But when I
• 56:33
  Speaker 3: had my cast and I did a read through on
• 56:36
  Speaker 3: the screen and just seeing these actors and some of
• 56:40
  Speaker 3: them so young, like the kids. It's just that's when
• 56:46
  Speaker 3: I was like, oh, you did a good job here
• 56:50
  Speaker 3: in this writing because coming from an actor again, coming
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: from an actor, not coming from like a brain of
• 56:56
  Speaker 3: like ooh, coming from an actor, because I can see
• 56:59
  Speaker 3: all the pieces were there that they needed, and I
• 57:02
  Speaker 3: wasn't getting a ton of questions why this why that
• 57:05
  Speaker 3: Odessa asked me a few really important questions, really important
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: questions that I had to take a minute and think.
• 57:12
  Speaker 3: She's a really really special actress. And she really knew
• 57:18
  Speaker 3: the in betweens and few things that she caught that
• 57:22
  Speaker 3: I didn't. She was the one person Wow, yeah, she
• 57:26
  Speaker 3: caught a few things and I was like, oh, this
• 57:27
  Speaker 3: little shit. She's so good. She's awesome. But that's when
• 57:32
  Speaker 3: I knew, because it was like for an actor, if
• 57:36
  Speaker 3: you're really in it, you really have to make all
• 57:41
  Speaker 3: the in between. I would say to my students all
• 57:44
  Speaker 3: the time, between this line and this line, what's the
• 57:49
  Speaker 3: thought process? What's going on there? I need to see that,
• 57:54
  Speaker 3: I need to see that what is that it's not line?
• 58:00
  Speaker 3: Wait for my line? Line? And Emily, Emily's presence of
• 58:08
  Speaker 3: being so completely present in that moment is extraordinary. Her
• 58:17
  Speaker 3: last scene, especially when she's with Joe, those words are
• 58:23
  Speaker 3: really like those are my words. When she says, oh,
• 58:27
  Speaker 3: I know I'm supposed to be grateful for every last
• 58:29
  Speaker 3: piece of it. Well I'm not. Where's the respect for
• 58:31
  Speaker 3: my life?
• 58:32
  Speaker 1: This is me, like, like, where's the respect for my life?
• 58:36
  Speaker 3: I wrote that scene in like literally twenty minutes.
• 58:39
  Speaker 5: I was like, it was just like pouring out of you.
• 58:42
  Speaker 3: And when she says those things, she is so present,
• 58:48
  Speaker 3: like she's thinking of them in the moment. She should
• 58:52
  Speaker 3: have been recognized. You do not get performances like this
• 58:56
  Speaker 3: every day. You just don't. So again, this is not
• 58:58
  Speaker 3: about me. This is about a whole. This is about
• 59:02
  Speaker 3: but it's also about and I would say this that
• 59:04
  Speaker 3: because I went to every screening, every festival, I spoke
• 59:07
  Speaker 3: to the audience. It's about all of us. Like, if
• 59:12
  Speaker 3: you're not seeing work like this, that's a problem. That's
• 59:17
  Speaker 3: a bigger problem than the movie industry.
• 59:19
  Speaker 5: Right, like what is a film for? What it's art for?
• 59:22
  Speaker 3: But it's also I like to say, keep them numb
• 59:25
  Speaker 3: and dumb, because what you're getting in your face is
• 59:30
  Speaker 3: how society will go. And what I'm showing is something else.
• 59:36
  Speaker 3: And someone doesn't like that, Like, I'm showing a woman
• 59:40
  Speaker 3: finding a voice and changing her life.
• 59:43
  Speaker 6: Is that not something you want to see? Maybe some
• 59:46
  Speaker 6: people don't. It makes you think.
• 59:49
  Speaker 3: And the amount of films that I saw that were
• 59:51
  Speaker 3: beautiful on the film festival circuit that you are not seeing.
• 59:55
  Speaker 5: That's a problem and a very small scale.
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: I feel deeply connected to what you're saying. It is
• 1:00:03
  Speaker 1: my greatest passion and joy in life to interview people,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: and I refuse to be outrageous. I'm not going to
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 1: ask them about their sex lives. I'm not going to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 1: go for the jugular for the social media buzz. I
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 1: want to know them and it keeps my podcast at
• 1:00:18
  Speaker 1: a mid level instead of and I'm not willing to
• 1:00:22
  Speaker 1: sell out. Good for you, I think I feel very
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: impassioned by your integrity. I think that's the word that
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: I'm feeling throughout all of this is you were never
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: willing to compromise yourself.
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 3: No, that's something you have to know instinctually, in your God,
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 3: in your grain. It's just not who I am. It's
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 3: just not who I am. And absolutely it has definitely
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 3: held me back. It helped me back with my bakery.
• 1:00:50
  Speaker 3: I had an opportunity to blow the thing up, but
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: it meant I would have had to lessen the ingredients
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 3: and possibly hurt people with me my disease. And I
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: was not going to do that. I was not going
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 3: to do that, and I had millions on the table
• 1:01:06
  Speaker 3: and I was not going to do that. I have
• 1:01:08
  Speaker 3: to be able to sleep at night. I have to
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 3: be able to hold my head up. I have to
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 3: be able to look at myself. Yeah, and if it's
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 3: not who you are, you can't do it. Don't do
• 1:01:17
  Speaker 3: it and be okay with that, Because I I do
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 3: stand proud with my film. I may be upset about
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 3: the response we're out living in a society, especially in
• 1:01:28
  Speaker 3: industry that is it's ard, it's commerce. Yeah, and this
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: isn't commerce. It's just sad because someone could have made
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 3: a shitload of money off my movie. But they, you know,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 3: they judge on fame, and it's just it's just never
• 1:01:45
  Speaker 3: been who I am. So if you know that it's
• 1:01:49
  Speaker 3: not who you are, you can't do anything else. You
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 3: just can't. You'll find your way.
• 1:01:56
  Speaker 5: I'm sure, thank you for that. I agree with you.
• 1:02:00
  Speaker 1: My mom growing up was always said to me, you're
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: the one that has to look in the mirror every
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 1: morning and be happy with the person staring back, and
• 1:02:06
  Speaker 1: I just live by that mostly. That's right when you
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: think about legacy, which I think is sort of this
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: weighted word because it could be taken as like name
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: on a building, ego driven, I don't think about it.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: I guess I'm asking in the sense of like what
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: you're leaving with people, which fresh Kills to me, feels
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 1: like one of the things you're leaving with people your words.
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: What do you hope that your work says about you,
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: both as an actress and an artist.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 3: You know, I'm not going to say negative things about
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: my past work at all. It was work, some of it,
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 3: I absolutely love some of it less and I know
• 1:02:50
  Speaker 3: it's made people laugh and it's made people happy. But
• 1:02:54
  Speaker 3: I have to say where I am now and telling
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 3: stories and things like fresh Kills, I really wish I
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 3: would have gotten too sooner, because this is where I'm
• 1:03:08
  Speaker 3: supposed to be. This is where I'm supposed to be.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 3: I'm supposed to be creating worlds and telling stories and
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 3: speaking because there's nothing like when you've moved people the
• 1:03:25
  Speaker 3: way a film can move people, the way a story
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 3: can move people. I made a promise to myself that
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 3: every time I watch the movie with an audience, I
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 3: would get up and I'd stand in the back of
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 3: the theater and watch the people watch the movie and
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 3: to see them and to hear them laugh, because with
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 3: an audience a totally different ride. There's laughter, there's crying,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 3: there's screams, there's like you know, and then guttural punches
• 1:03:56
  Speaker 3: as you know, and that ride. It's like people have
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 3: written me like, this is the best film I've seen
• 1:04:04
  Speaker 3: in ten fifteen years. This will go down. This is
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 3: like I watched it seven times. I've told everyone like
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 3: it really hits people and that there is nothing better.
• 1:04:16
  Speaker 3: There's nothing better. So that's another reason why I wish
• 1:04:21
  Speaker 3: it would get more of a platform, because you know,
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 3: then it gets easier to do the next.
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 1: I've heard Spike Lee talk about that a lot, like
• 1:04:29
  Speaker 1: even after three four successful films, he had a hard
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: time getting funding.
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 6: Yep.
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: You know, after talking to you, I've interviewed a lot
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: of people whose love of fame has overshadowed their love
• 1:04:44
  Speaker 1: of artistry, whatever that is for them, and you strike
• 1:04:48
  Speaker 1: me as quite the opposite. I don't think you give
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: a flying fuck about fame, not at all. I'm wondering how,
• 1:04:56
  Speaker 1: at some point, because you've dated people who who are
• 1:05:00
  Speaker 1: really famous, how did you reckon? Like, how did you
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: reconcile that, because that's such an interesting experience for somebody
• 1:05:11
  Speaker 1: who sort of rebukes fame.
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 3: You know, I don't think I rebuke it, but I
• 1:05:15
  Speaker 3: definitely see it for what it is. And I will
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 3: say being around people in my career that either were
• 1:05:26
  Speaker 3: that big, or were on their way or wanted to
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 3: be that big, it is a different makeup. And there
• 1:05:34
  Speaker 3: was one in particular that I seriously it was a
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 3: huge lesson because I looked at this person and it
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 3: was so clear that they would walk over their dead
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 3: mother's grave to get where they wanted to do. And
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 3: I knew that I was could be eliminated, anything could
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 3: be eliminated for that gold. That is the ugliest thing
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 3: I think I've ever seen. And I really was like, Oh,
• 1:06:04
  Speaker 3: I know why You're not going to get there, because
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 3: I just I'm just not that. I'm not that, And
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 3: I'm not saying everybody that gets there is that. Yeah,
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 3: but for the few people that I have seen and
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 3: been around that have been at that level, there's something
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 3: that I just don't have, and it's this, it's this
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 3: like negate everything and that it's almost a very scary
• 1:06:34
  Speaker 3: attribute to me. It's it's just yeah, it's it's something
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 3: I didn't understand. Yeah, and it definitely made me look
• 1:06:43
  Speaker 3: at myself and go, oh, okay, okay, yeah, that's it's
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 3: just not who I am. I'll go to the map
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 3: for a project. I said it to a friend this morning,
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 3: like this industry and what I've done and keep going,
• 1:07:01
  Speaker 3: and especially when you're told to sit down. So many
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 3: times I've been told to I've been counted out so
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 3: many times where I should have stayed on the mat,
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 3: Like what are you doing? I always i'd say it now,
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 3: like what you just went through, Go go dog walk,
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 3: Go go groom dogs, Go go start a dog business,
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 3: because this is insane, really, But when you have things
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 3: that you want to create, it's it's very hard. But
• 1:07:27
  Speaker 3: it definitely comes at a cost. Definitely, it definitely comes
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 3: at a cost. It's worth it, though, yes and no.
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 6: I said it in an interview on a red car.
• 1:07:37
  Speaker 6: But just recently the woman didn't know what to do
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 6: with me. She was like, it's worth it though, right,
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 6: I was like, no, it's not. She was like, say
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 6: it is, Like no, I'm not gonna lie.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 3: I don't know if.
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 6: It's worth it, honestly, but you just did it your
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 6: deathbed here. That's what I was going to say. The
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 6: journey of it all, is it worth it? I don't know.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 3: I can't say yes. For me personally, this chunk of
• 1:08:05
  Speaker 3: making this film I got it was so worth it.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 3: But the journey, man, it's hard. It's really hard. And
• 1:08:13
  Speaker 3: that is the truth.
• 1:08:15
  Speaker 1: I don't want to be Pollyanna and like tie a
• 1:08:18
  Speaker 1: bow around it all. But I do think if anybody
• 1:08:21
  Speaker 1: watches Fresh Kills, it'd be hard for you. They'd see
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: it'd be hard for you to write something with that
• 1:08:27
  Speaker 1: much pain had you not experienced so much yourself.
• 1:08:31
  Speaker 5: I'm not saying the pain was worth it.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 3: And I say that as well. And the amount of
• 1:08:38
  Speaker 3: years that I spent saying, oh I should have I
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: should have been writing it, then I should have. I
• 1:08:44
  Speaker 3: could not have done the movie that I did.
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 6: Now, then yes, I needed to come to a to
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 6: all the experiences, feel all the things.
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: I could not have made the same movie ten years ago,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 3: for sure.
• 1:08:58
  Speaker 5: Okay, a few rapid fire questions Okay, okay, the first one.
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 5: Growing up?
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 1: What romantic film really touched you and shaped what your
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 1: concept of love is?
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 3: Oh god, they were all wrong. You look about you
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 3: look about what we were taught as young women. Jesus,
• 1:09:21
  Speaker 3: Jennifer Aniston.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 5: Rob Kraut has plagued me.
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 3: I mean all of it has plagued us. Everything is
• 1:09:27
  Speaker 3: centering men, every single thing, My whole class, all of
• 1:09:31
  Speaker 3: it is about decentering all.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 5: The shit you can talk. It's amazing, it really is.
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 6: I'm trying to get women to realize that we've been
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 6: programmed for this insanity. But I did love, you know,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 6: growing up West Side Story Greece, like but again I'll
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 6: say Greece because I loved Greece. But there was Olivia
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 6: Newton John, blonde, blue, white, sweet, she got the guy,
• 1:09:57
  Speaker 6: and then there was Rism and it was like she
• 1:10:00
  Speaker 6: was the slut. And I remember, I have to be
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 6: Olivia Newton John, but I'm not Olivia Newton John.
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 3: Yeah, so that puked me up.
• 1:10:10
  Speaker 1: Nobody you were, really it was confusing because you were
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 1: too pretty to be Rizzo, and so it's like where
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 1: do you put you?
• 1:10:17
  Speaker 3: No one knows? Still, no one knows, right, No, one knows.
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 5: Okay, what do you eat on your birthday?
• 1:10:25
  Speaker 3: Anything I want? Anything I want. I'm definitely not. I'm
• 1:10:30
  Speaker 3: not that person. I'll make myself. I'll usually make myself
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 3: a carrot cake because you know, I have silly egg
• 1:10:35
  Speaker 3: disease and I eggs and I can't have a lot
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 3: of day I can get, So I make myself either
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 3: a carrot cake or I make a chocolate cake.
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 5: What coastar have you learned the most from?
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 3: Oh, you know, there's so many that you I don't
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 3: know if I learned picked up different things, but don
• 1:10:53
  Speaker 3: cheetle in in Crash. It was the day we had
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 3: this sex scene and it was just so horrifying for
• 1:11:01
  Speaker 3: both of us. But he looked at me at one
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 3: point and he said something I will never forget. He said, fuck,
• 1:11:09
  Speaker 3: this work is so painful. And it's like, oh my god,
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 3: oh my god. Like I never heard someone say that,
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 3: because I always feel that way. It's like, it's really
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 3: painful to act something like you gotta you gotta take
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 3: on all these other things, and it's it's and if
• 1:11:26
  Speaker 3: we want to do it, well, you immerse yourself so
• 1:11:28
  Speaker 3: much and it's painful. It becomes painful and when he
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 3: said it, to regard him as the way I regard
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 3: him was like, he's just so good. And when he
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 3: said that, I was like, oh, yes, I agree.
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 5: It was like, so you could always read?
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that was amazing.
• 1:11:50
  Speaker 1: What is a book that you've read that has changed
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 1: your life?
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 5: Something you think everybody should read?
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 3: Oh, A Long Walk to Freedom Nelson.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: No one has said that in one hundred almost two
• 1:12:04
  Speaker 1: hundred episodes.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 5: I love that answer.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 3: You want to know about your limiting, fucking mind, Go
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 3: read that, Yes, go read that. How that man found
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 3: freedom within a cage? Pretty incredible.
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 5: Okay, I do a card game, So just tell me
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 5: when to stop.
• 1:12:21
  Speaker 3: Stop.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 5: What are you still trying to prove to yourself or
• 1:12:25
  Speaker 5: to other people?
• 1:12:27
  Speaker 3: Oh? Wow, that's a that's a that's a big one.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 3: I still and the award I got the other night.
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 3: It says my name on it and it says filmmaker
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 3: on the Rise, and I'm still trying to read it
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 3: and feel it. I said it the other night. I'm
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 3: very used to the fight, and unfortunately that makes me
• 1:12:52
  Speaker 3: so not used to the winds. And I really want
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 3: to get used to the winds because I'd rather not
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 3: have that many fights anymore. I don't want to keep struggling,
• 1:13:03
  Speaker 3: so I need to get used to the winds. And
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 3: because this is what I know so much that it's
• 1:13:10
  Speaker 3: almost hard to take in the wind, so I need
• 1:13:12
  Speaker 3: to change that.
• 1:13:13
  Speaker 1: I want to thank you for how much you share
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 1: of yourself through your art. It is filmmakers and artist
• 1:13:20
  Speaker 1: like you that make my job feel worth it.
• 1:13:23
  Speaker 5: So thank you.
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 3: Awesome, so great, and you keep going, just keep going
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 3: the right people will find you for sure, but I
• 1:13:32
  Speaker 3: appreciate it and thank you. And everyone goes see Fresh Kills. Please.
• 1:13:35
  Speaker 3: It's Amazon Prime. I think it's on Apple. I think
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 3: it's going to be on who soon. It's out there.
• 1:13:46
  Speaker 5: Okay, you know what time it is. Today's a good day.
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 5: To have a good day. I'll see you next week.
• 1:14:00
  Speaker 1: Shop shop shopp