Latest / Story Magic / 80 - The risk of plagiarism in the writing community

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80 - The risk of plagiarism in the writing community · Story Magic

• 2:28
  Rachel: Hey, writers, welcome back to Story Magic, the podcast that will help you write a book you're damn proud of.
• 2:32
  Emily: I'm Rachel.
• 2:33
  Rachel: And I'm Emily.
• 2:35
  Emily: And today we are talking about plagiarism in the writing community.
• 2:40
  Emily: Dun, dun, dun.
• 2:44
  Emily: So this topic, I'm really grateful because it came from a listener question.
• 2:49
  Emily: So if you don't know, if you are a listener and you have a question, you can email it into podcastinfo.
• 2:58
  Emily: Nope, that's not right.
• 3:00
  Emily: Podcastgooldenmayediting.com that's the one.
• 3:04
  Emily: Email it there.
• 3:06
  Emily: And then we periodically answer listener questions on the podcast.
• 3:11
  Emily: So this one came from one of these emails, and we thought it was, like, an awesome thing to tackle on the podcast on an episode.
• 3:20
  Emily: So we're going to be talking about plagiarism.
• 3:23
  Emily: So first I'd like to read the question and then we can jump in.
• 3:26
  Rachel: Sounds good.
• 3:27
  Emily: Cool. So this came from Anonymous.
• 3:30
  Emily: So Anonymous says a core theme of your podcast is writers need for community.
• 3:36
  Emily: While I wholly agree that writers benefit from having a support network and critique partners, I also wonder how this is balanced with the risk of plagiarism.
• 3:45
  Emily: A while back, I was trading pages with another writer friend.
• 3:49
  Emily: Over time, I noticed that this person started lifting ideas from my writing, going as far as plagiarizing descriptions, dialogue, and eventually entire paragraphs with minimal changes in time.
• 4:00
  Emily: They even stole the premise for a new book that I told them I wanted to write down to the very peculiar and specific details.
• 4:07
  Emily: Writing groups like TW Tenacious Writing, which is our community, sound like a fantastic idea.
• 4:12
  Emily: But my prior experience with plagiarism by a critique partner gives me pause, especially since the group consists of strangers who arguably have less accountability than friends.
• 4:23
  Emily: So, yeah, so, like, the basic question here is plagiarism.
• 4:28
  Emily: Is it?
• 4:29
  Emily: Is it likely?
• 4:29
  Emily: What's the risk?
• 4:31
  Emily: What's the benefit of having a writing group if this is.
• 4:34
  Emily: If this is something that you have to deal with?
• 4:36
  Rachel: Yeah. So first, I just want to thank you for sending this question in.
• 4:40
  Rachel: And I also want to say, like, I'm really sorry that that happened to you because that is such a shitty critique partnership relationship for somebody to be, you know, like, lifting ideas that sound like they were exactly right, like they were consciously stealing ideas from you.
• 4:56
  Rachel: And I say that on.
• 4:57
  Rachel: I say that intentionally because I think whenever you're, like, coming up with ideas with other people, like, there are subconscious things that will happen once in a while.
• 5:08
  Rachel: Like, my alpha reader and I joke all of the time that, like, we have this, like, weird osmosis where we're both with new ideas right now.
• 5:17
  Rachel: And she was like.
• 5:19
  Rachel: She was like, I came up with this idea, and, like, there's going to be diving involved, like, diving in the ocean for something.
• 5:25
  Rachel: And I was like, weird, because so did I. Yeah.
• 5:30
  Rachel: So, like, sometimes.
• 5:31
  Rachel: Sometimes that happens.
• 5:32
  Rachel: You know, like, you.
• 5:33
  Rachel: We've both have, you know, characters who have similar career paths, but our books are entirely different.
• 5:39
  Rachel: Like, they're totally different.
• 5:40
  Rachel: But, like, sometimes that happens, and it's hard to know if it did, like, if it was intentional or not.
• 5:45
  Rachel: Right.
• 5:45
  Rachel: It's just like, you were inspired by something.
• 5:47
  Rachel: Your subconscious was inspired by something.
• 5:48
  Rachel: So, like, yes, that.
• 5:50
  Rachel: I don't want to say that that can't happen, because it can.
• 5:52
  Rachel: But I also don't want to say that it's necessarily inherently a bad thing, but what has happened to you is terrible, and that is a disrespectful and toxic critique partnership.
• 6:01
  Rachel: And.
• 6:03
  Rachel: And, like, that's definitely not okay.
• 6:04
  Rachel: And I totally understand where your hesitancy is coming from, so I just kind of want to start there with, like, that's not how it should be.
• 6:11
  Emily: Yeah, I completely agree.
• 6:13
  Emily: And I also completely agree, Emily, with, like, the.
• 6:16
  Emily: There is subconscious overlap that I myself do with my alpha writers, alpha readers, you know, things like that.
• 6:23
  Emily: And I. I think in this case, it does feel.
• 6:26
  Emily: Maybe it's.
• 6:27
  Emily: Maybe it started subconsciously, but by the end of this story, it feels so purposeful.
• 6:33
  Emily: Yeah, that's not good.
• 6:35
  Emily: That's not good.
• 6:36
  Rachel: Not good.
• 6:37
  Rachel: Not okay.
• 6:37
  Emily: Not okay.
• 6:39
  Emily: I also would say unusual.
• 6:42
  Emily: Yeah, this is the.
• 6:43
  Emily: This is maybe one of two times that I've heard experiences like this where a writer felt like another writer purposefully stole things from them.
• 6:54
  Emily: And it was, like, easy to say, well, they're my writing partner, so they knew what I was writing and took it from me.
• 7:00
  Emily: That's unusual.
• 7:03
  Emily: In my experience.
• 7:04
  Emily: It doesn't happen a lot.
• 7:06
  Rachel: Yeah. And I think a lot of this has to do with, like, we talk about this all the time in terms of what a. What a feedback relationship should be like and should feel like, and the foundation upon which it should be built upon.
• 7:21
  Rachel: And a huge piece of that is respect.
• 7:24
  Rachel: Right.
• 7:24
  Rachel: And this is.
• 7:24
  Rachel: Is not respect.
• 7:26
  Rachel: Like, this is.
• 7:26
  Rachel: This is heavy disrespect at every level.
• 7:30
  Rachel: And in tenacious writing specifically, like, we don't let that shit fly.
• 7:35
  Rachel: And so part of.
• 7:36
  Rachel: Part of the reason why I love tenacious writing is, like, you not only have the accountability of your group, but you also, like, everybody goes through the feedback training, so everybody understands what it means to have a respectful relationship.
• 7:51
  Rachel: And then within a program like tenacious writing, you also have the accountability of us.
• 7:55
  Rachel: Right.
• 7:56
  Rachel: Like, if something like this were to happen in tenacious writing, we would hope that people would come to us and, like, we could help manage the situation and help you through it, because it does.
• 8:05
  Rachel: Like, when that's happening, like, that's not a relationship that should be continued.
• 8:11
  Emily: Yeah.
• 8:13
  Rachel: And so, you know, it can be.
• 8:15
  Rachel: It can be hard to back out of that, but, like, important because you deserve to be respected and your work deserves to be respected.
• 8:22
  Emily: Yeah, for sure.
• 8:23
  Emily: So I think, like, I think both of us would agree that the risk of plagiarism is low across the board when you're finding people, like, the right people.
• 8:38
  Emily: And it doesn't necessarily have to be just friends that, you know.
• 8:42
  Emily: Like, there are very supportive groups online that have codes of conduct.
• 8:47
  Emily: Like, we have codes of conduct for our group.
• 8:49
  Emily: We require people to behave a certain way.
• 8:52
  Emily: And that's.
• 8:53
  Emily: That's not unique to us by any means.
• 8:55
  Emily: Like, there are plenty of communities that require their members to behave a certain way that can help cut down on this.
• 9:02
  Emily: So you had asked, I wonder how this is balanced with the risk of plagiarism.
• 9:07
  Emily: And I hate that this happened to you, to this person, but the risk, I think, is low if you're in the right space.
• 9:15
  Emily: Um, yeah.
• 9:16
  Emily: And so I. I would never want the.
• 9:18
  Emily: This fear to turn someone off from joining a writing group because especially.
• 9:23
  Emily: Especially now.
• 9:26
  Emily: I mean, like, look, it takes.
• 9:29
  Emily: We've seen so much.
• 9:31
  Emily: We've seen, like, so much drama happen on the Internet in, like, book communities, book threads, you know, bookstagram, whatever it is, book talk where people call each other out for, like, sometimes the littlest shit, but, like, sometimes for big shit like this, people call each other out on it.
• 9:47
  Emily: So I would say that, like, let's fast forward for a second to you specific person.
• 9:53
  Emily: If this person ever published their book.
• 9:56
  Emily: I'm not saying you have ammo to go against them, but I am saying, like, there, you have receipts here, whereas, like, 20, 30 years ago, there were not a lot of receipts to prove that you had written something compared to another person.
• 10:09
  Emily: But, like, nowadays we have, you know, file histories and we have.
• 10:13
  Emily: You have a relationship history with this.
• 10:15
  Emily: Like, there's communications.
• 10:16
  Emily: What I'm saying is, if this were to happen, I think you would have a. The support of almost every other writer that you know to help you, like, fix this problem.
• 10:29
  Rachel: Well, you.
• 10:29
  Rachel: You would have the means with which to protect and stand up for yourself.
• 10:33
  Emily: Exactly.
• 10:34
  Rachel: And that's what I'm saying.
• 10:35
  Emily: Yeah.
• 10:35
  Rachel: And so, like, it's not the.
• 10:38
  Rachel: It is.
• 10:39
  Rachel: I think it's the need.
• 10:41
  Rachel: The need and the benefit to have to get feedback from readers far, far, far, far, far, far outweighs.
• 10:49
  Emily: Yes.
• 10:49
  Rachel: The risk of, you know, the damage of plagiarism.
• 10:53
  Rachel: Like, yeah, so far outweighs it.
• 10:56
  Rachel: And so I. If this is something, and I want to, like, caveat the person who sent this to us, it's very clear that you have had a. One of those rare experiences where this happened.
• 11:07
  Rachel: And, like, your fears are based in an experience.
• 11:10
  Rachel: Right.
• 11:10
  Rachel: But so I'm not.
• 11:11
  Rachel: I just want to, like, make it really clear I'm not talking to you right now in this instance.
• 11:16
  Rachel: But I also, I'll get this question from people who haven't had this experience before and who are like, oh, I'm afraid of just sharing my work with anyone because I don't want people to steal my ideas and all of this.
• 11:28
  Rachel: And oftentimes I think.
• 11:29
  Rachel: And again, this is not the listeners who submitted this.
• 11:32
  Rachel: It's not their experience.
• 11:33
  Rachel: But I think sometimes for folks, for other listeners, if you have that fear, but it's not actually happened to you before, oftentimes there's something else that's going on, some other fear that's holding you back from sharing your work.
• 11:45
  Rachel: Because I. This is an easy fear to, like, it's an easy conscious fear to have, right?
• 11:53
  Rachel: To be like, oh, well, I'm not going to share my work because I'm afraid that somebody's going to copy it.
• 11:57
  Rachel: And the reality is that the risk of that is very, very low.
• 12:00
  Rachel: And even if it were to happen, you would have a lot of ways to protect yourself as long as you, you know, keep the receipts, keep the emails, keep the, you know, keep the proof of when you had ideas and where you shared them.
• 12:14
  Rachel: But if you know, so otherwise, like, maybe investigate, like, what else might be holding you back if this is a question or a fear that you have.
• 12:23
  Emily: Yeah, yeah.
• 12:25
  Emily: I'm also thinking now, like, at the end of this note, at the end of this question, um, the person mentions, like, if your group consists of strangers who arguably have less accountability than friends to give anyone, like, the benefit of the doubt, I think it's okay to go and be like, hey, do you realize what you're doing in these pages?
• 12:48
  Emily: And, and, like, approach that conversation in a feedback relationship.
• 12:57
  Emily: But I'm also saying, like, so long as that's built on trust, right.
• 13:00
  Emily: Like, in our feedback groups, I would have no problem going up to one of my.
• 13:05
  Emily: My writing group members, because I am in a writing group in tw, and if I felt like they were writing the same thing I was writing, I would be like, hey, can we have a conversation about this?
• 13:13
  Emily: Because I'm kind of.
• 13:14
  Emily: I'm kind of, like, really uncomfortable, and it's making me have a lot of trust issues, sharing my work.
• 13:19
  Emily: What's going on?
• 13:19
  Emily: Did you notice that?
• 13:21
  Emily: Did you not notice that, like, what's happening?
• 13:23
  Emily: And then, like, you can have accountability.
• 13:26
  Emily: That's what I'm saying.
• 13:27
  Emily: It's like, you can have accountability with these groups.
• 13:29
  Emily: It's not just like, as soon as someone.
• 13:34
  Emily: As soon as this starts to happen, like, it's no longer.
• 13:39
  Emily: It's no longer okay for you.
• 13:40
  Emily: Like, it's too scary to bring it up.
• 13:42
  Emily: It doesn't have to.
• 13:43
  Emily: It doesn't have to be like that.
• 13:44
  Emily: I think if you're in a really safe space, you should feel comfortable holding your writing group members to accountability and, like, having.
• 13:53
  Emily: Having these conversations, because, like we were saying earlier, like, it's not always conscious.
• 13:59
  Emily: And it also, like, you.
• 14:01
  Emily: You and your alpha writer or alpha reader and me and my alpha reader, like, are.
• 14:05
  Emily: We know that that happens.
• 14:06
  Emily: And it also is something that we're, like, we joke about.
• 14:09
  Emily: So that means we're comfortable with it to a degree.
• 14:10
  Emily: Yeah, but there could be someone who, like, can.
• 14:12
  Emily: Is seeing it happen and is still not happy with it, but isn't sure.
• 14:16
  Emily: Is this, like, a joking thing?
• 14:16
  Emily: Is it not joking?
• 14:18
  Emily: The whole point is, like, feedback.
• 14:20
  Emily: Relationships should be about trust and respect.
• 14:22
  Emily: So if you don't have that with your group, it might not be the group for you.
• 14:26
  Emily: And if you do have that with your group, it is okay to talk about this stuff and be like, hey, I'm a little worried.
• 14:33
  Emily: Talk me through what's going on.
• 14:34
  Rachel: Yeah. And then.
• 14:36
  Rachel: And then obviously, like, you know, in a space like Tanisha's writing, like, Rachel and I are there, if you don't feel comfortable or you don't feel like you can bring it up and hold people accountable, like, we'll do it for you.
• 14:48
  Rachel: That's our job.
• 14:49
  Rachel: Right.
• 14:50
  Rachel: And so that's.
• 14:51
  Rachel: That's the idea behind having a safe space that has codes of contact.
• 14:56
  Rachel: Right.
• 14:56
  Rachel: And boundaries.
• 14:57
  Rachel: And, like, we try to pair our groups up so that, you know, it's.
• 15:01
  Rachel: It's a good, good vibe.
• 15:03
  Rachel: But, you know, it's really important for you to communicate with us as well if it's not working.
• 15:07
  Rachel: And even if you're not in a group with codes of contact and boundaries.
• 15:10
  Rachel: Right.
• 15:11
  Rachel: And you're just meeting strangers on the Internet and sharing work.
• 15:14
  Rachel: Right.
• 15:15
  Rachel: You can still, like, you should always feel free to back out of a relationship if it feels like anything.
• 15:22
  Rachel: Like what you've described in this.
• 15:25
  Rachel: You know, what the listener has described in this message.
• 15:28
  Rachel: Like, if somebody.
• 15:29
  Rachel: If you feel like someone's stealing your ideas and you're not comfortable and you don't feel like it's a relationship that's built on respect, end it.
• 15:35
  Rachel: Right.
• 15:36
  Rachel: You don't owe them anything.
• 15:38
  Emily: Yeah, yeah.
• 15:39
  Emily: And then also, like, think about trying again.
• 15:43
  Emily: Yeah.
• 15:44
  Emily: These are.
• 15:45
  Emily: These are 1 in 5 million people that are going to behave this way.
• 15:50
  Emily: I think the world of the writing community on both sides of these relationships, I think that 999,000.
• 16:01
  Emily: Over a million people, whatever, this astronomical number of people would never behave this way.
• 16:08
  Emily: They never would.
• 16:09
  Emily: And as you said earlier, like, the benefits of having a support network and having a critique partnership or having a writing group, like, far outweigh this risk.
• 16:20
  Emily: Yeah.
• 16:21
  Emily: Cool.
• 16:22
  Emily: Those are good.
• 16:23
  Rachel: Thank you again, Anonymous, for sending this question.
• 16:25
  Rachel: And this is a great question.
• 16:27
  Rachel: And like I said, people ask it all the time because it's a. It's a fear that people have and.
• 16:32
  Emily: Yeah.
• 16:34
  Rachel: Yeah. But it's.
• 16:35
  Rachel: It's not a fear we have to carry with us or should carry with us, I don't think.
• 16:39
  Emily: Yeah. So thank you again.
• 16:41
  Emily: If you're listening to this and you're like, oh, I have a weird question, or I have a question or something that has been on my mind and I don't know who to ask it to, ask it to us.
• 16:51
  Emily: You can email us your listener question@podcastoldenmayediting.com and put in the subject line podcast question.
• 17:01
  Emily: And then we will talk about it on the podcast.
• 17:04
  Emily: Like this.
• 17:05
  Rachel: Awesome.
• 17:06
  Rachel: If you want to build a successful, fulfilling, and sustainable writing life that works for you, you've got to get on our email list.
• 17:12
  Emily: Sign up now to get our free email course, the Magic of Character Arcs.
• 17:16
  Emily: After seven days of email magic, you'll have the power to keep your readers flipping pages all through the night.
• 17:21
  Rachel: Link in the show notes.
• 17:22
  Rachel: We'll see you.