Latest / Silver FM 100.6 / Overcoming romantic obsession

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Overcoming romantic obsession · Silver FM 100.6

0:00
Speaker 1: American journalist Austin Tice vanished in Syria over a decade ago.
0:05
Speaker 1: For years, we've been searching for him. And now, we
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Speaker 1: finally have some answers. This is the prison that Austin
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Speaker 1: was in.
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Speaker 2: Oh my God.
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Speaker 1: We found Austin's file. Listen to Where Is Austin Tice?
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Speaker 1: from NPR's Embedded and BBC Radio 4 on the NPR
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Speaker 1: app or wherever you get your podcasts.
0:24
Speaker 2: Hey, it's Marielle. I saw this video the other day
0:27
Speaker 2: of a little bird that's sitting on somebody's kitchen counter.
0:31
Speaker 2: It must be a pet. And the bird, it sees
0:34
Speaker 2: a potential mate on the floor. So it jumps down
0:38
Speaker 2: and sidles up to the other bird, nuzzles it, tries
0:41
Speaker 2: to mount it. Yes, that's the Ying Yang twins playing
0:47
Speaker 2: in the background. The iconic seduction song, Wait, the Whisper Song,
0:53
Speaker 2: came out in 2005. Anyway. Then you realize the other bird,
0:58
Speaker 2: it's not actually a bird. It is a bird wind-up toy.
1:02
Speaker 2: I feel like I've done this before in dating. Set
1:06
Speaker 2: my sights on somebody juicy, slid into their view, did
1:10
Speaker 2: my little mating dance, and then realized they were not
1:14
Speaker 2: a suitable companion. And yet I couldn't stop thinking about them,
1:18
Speaker 2: even after I knew they were a wind-up toy.
1:20
Speaker 3: I would say limerence is an altered mental state. fundamentally.
1:24
Speaker 3: So it's a state that many of us go into
1:27
Speaker 3: in the early stages of love. And it's kind of
1:30
Speaker 3: a profound romantic infatuation with another person. So the kind
1:35
Speaker 3: of early experience of limerence could quite be well described
1:39
Speaker 3: as a love intoxication.
1:42
Speaker 2: Tom Bellamy is a neuroscientist and author of the book Smitten,
1:45
Speaker 2: which is all about the neuroscience of this state called limerence.
1:49
Speaker 2: Limerence is a term coined by a psychologist named Dorothy
1:52
Speaker 2: Tenov in the 1970s. And Tom says it's essentially when
1:55
Speaker 2: you get an extraordinary natural high from being with or
1:59
Speaker 2: around another person. You feel euphoric and exhilarated, and you
2:03
Speaker 2: have this strong desire to bond with them, typically romantically
2:06
Speaker 2: or sexually. And that's not always bad, right? You might
2:10
Speaker 2: feel limerence in the early stages of a healthy mutual relationship.
2:14
Speaker 2: I felt that myself. But sometimes these feelings get pointed
2:17
Speaker 2: in the wrong direction. You have them for someone who
2:20
Speaker 2: you can't or shouldn't be with, And you get all
2:23
Speaker 2: twisted up.
2:24
Speaker 3: Limerence, if it goes on for too long, usually either
2:28
Speaker 3: because the other person isn't available or they're incompatible in
2:32
Speaker 3: some way, and there's some uncertainty around it, so you're
2:35
Speaker 3: not actually able to form a healthy bond with them,
2:39
Speaker 3: then it can take quite a negative turn.
2:42
Speaker 2: Sure, you still get that high feeling when you're with them.
2:45
Speaker 2: But when you're not, you get anxious. And instead of
2:48
Speaker 2: desiring them in a straightforward way, you crave them.
2:52
Speaker 3: And it kind of develops into an obsession that's very
2:55
Speaker 3: hard to break. And so I think limerence, certainly in
2:58
Speaker 3: those later stages, is very well described as addiction to
3:02
Speaker 3: another person.
3:03
Speaker 2: Tom started writing about and researching this topic after he
3:07
Speaker 2: experienced this kind of limerence, limerence that was a problem.
3:10
Speaker 2: He was happily married, but that didn't stop him from
3:13
Speaker 2: developing this craving for somebody else.
3:16
Speaker 3: My first thought, obviously, was, well, what's going on in
3:18
Speaker 3: the brain? What's happening to me? How can I make
3:20
Speaker 3: sense of this experience that I'm going through? And so
3:23
Speaker 3: I then came across the book Love and Limerence by
3:26
Speaker 3: Dorothy Tenhoff and realized that this described exactly what I
3:32
Speaker 3: was going through, but that I had a perspective on
3:34
Speaker 3: it with an additional sort of 40, 50 years of
3:38
Speaker 3: neuroscience research. I had a completely different perspective on limerence
3:42
Speaker 3: compared to when the book was written in the 1970s.
3:46
Speaker 2: So he started a blog anonymously and it grew and
3:48
Speaker 2: grew until he had a large following in and a
3:51
Speaker 2: community of people who'd been through the same thing.
3:53
Speaker 3: And so that also gave me a huge kind of
3:56
Speaker 3: database of information of what limerence is and how people
3:59
Speaker 3: experience it and the effect that it has on our lives.
4:02
Speaker 2: On this episode of Life Kit, I talk to Tom
4:04
Speaker 2: about limerence. What does it feel like? When does it
4:07
Speaker 2: become unhealthy? And how can we snap ourselves out of
4:10
Speaker 2: an overwhelming crush or remove ourselves from a romantic relationship
4:14
Speaker 2: that's become unhealthy and addictive? That's after the break.
4:24
Speaker 4: On the next through line from NPR.
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5:32
Speaker 2: I'm looking at the list here from the book of
5:35
Speaker 2: symptoms that are characteristic of the condition. Frequent intrusive thoughts
5:39
Speaker 2: about the other person. an acute need for reciprocation of
5:44
Speaker 2: equally strong feeling, insecurity or shyness when in the presence
5:48
Speaker 2: of the other person, often manifesting in physical discomfort like sweating, stammering,
5:53
Speaker 2: racing heart, an aching sensation in the heart when uncertainty
5:57
Speaker 2: is strong, a remarkable ability to emphasize the positive features
6:01
Speaker 2: of the other person and minimize or empathize with the negative,
6:05
Speaker 2: exaggerated dependency of mood on the other person's actions, So
6:09
Speaker 2: elation when they're reciprocating and devastation when you sense disinterest
6:14
Speaker 2: from them. Yeah, I've been there.
6:20
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a common experience for me that when I
6:24
Speaker 3: describe the symptoms of limerence, people split into two camps.
6:29
Speaker 3: Either they say, just as you have, oh gosh, yes,
6:31
Speaker 3: I've experienced that. Or they say, that doesn't sound healthy,
6:36
Speaker 3: that sounds neurotic. Yeah. So some of us go into
6:39
Speaker 3: that very intense state of intoxication and addiction, but others don't.
6:46
Speaker 2: You talk in the book about how unhealthy limerence is
6:49
Speaker 2: a lot like gambling. It's like you go to the
6:51
Speaker 2: slot machine and then most often you don't get a payout,
6:55
Speaker 2: but sometimes you get a big one and then you
6:57
Speaker 2: get nothing for a while and then you get like
6:59
Speaker 2: just a little small reward. And something about that really
7:04
Speaker 2: keeps you hooked.
7:05
Speaker 3: For some people, the thrill of winning... in gambling is
7:09
Speaker 3: so exhilarating that it's a very powerful reward that can
7:13
Speaker 3: get reinforced. It's the same idea. So when we were
7:16
Speaker 3: talking about uncertainty in a relationship or uncertainty about being
7:20
Speaker 3: able to form a bond with the person that you're
7:23
Speaker 3: limerent for, that's what's going on in gambling addiction as well.
7:28
Speaker 3: The payouts are intermittent. So they're not predictable. There isn't
7:33
Speaker 3: really a pattern to the payout from the slot machine.
7:38
Speaker 3: And so you end up in a situation where you
7:41
Speaker 3: have what psychologists call an intermittent reinforcement schedule. Because it's
7:46
Speaker 3: not predictable, because there isn't a pattern that you can
7:49
Speaker 3: actually learn, you kind of just keep reinforcing that dopamine drive,
7:55
Speaker 3: that wanting drive. And so that is what would be
7:58
Speaker 3: happening in a scenario like, say, a situationship where Sometimes
8:03
Speaker 3: they're very affectionate. Sometimes the person obviously shows that they're
8:06
Speaker 3: attracted to you and you're together and you're enjoying each
8:09
Speaker 3: other's company. But other times they're not available or they're
8:12
Speaker 3: not forthcoming and maybe they're emotionally withholding. And so it's
8:16
Speaker 3: very difficult in that scenario for you to kind of
8:19
Speaker 3: settle into a state of thinking, oh, I can learn
8:23
Speaker 3: what predictably gives me the good reward. And so you
8:28
Speaker 3: end up just constantly in a state of uncertainty. And
8:32
Speaker 3: that can deepen the addiction.
8:34
Speaker 2: I think what happens in these situations is you keep
8:37
Speaker 2: going back to the other person hoping they can fix things, right?
8:41
Speaker 2: And almost thinking they're the only person who can make
8:44
Speaker 2: me feel better again.
8:45
Speaker 1: Yeah.
8:47
Speaker 3: And I mean, there's other details to the neuroscience as
8:49
Speaker 3: well about it that are a bit depressing when you
8:53
Speaker 3: reflect on it. But in that sort of later stages
8:56
Speaker 3: of addiction, it's more that you desperately want contact just
9:00
Speaker 3: to relieve the pain. rather than that it is actually
9:05
Speaker 3: exciting or euphoric or rewarding anymore. It's just being absent hurts.
9:12
Speaker 3: So you have almost withdrawal pains if you try to
9:15
Speaker 3: detach from somebody that you've been limerent for for a
9:19
Speaker 3: long period of time. And the way that the brain works,
9:22
Speaker 3: it's a bit peculiar that reward and motivation is actually
9:29
Speaker 3: separate things. at a neurochemical level from liking. So wanting
9:35
Speaker 3: and liking are actually different drives in the brain. So
9:39
Speaker 3: you can get into a state where even after you
9:43
Speaker 3: stopped liking something, like if you're addicted to a person
9:47
Speaker 3: that's not treating you well, you still want them.
9:51
Speaker 2: I think that that's so powerful because a lot of
9:56
Speaker 2: us have experienced that, wanting someone who we don't even
10:00
Speaker 2: like or who doesn't treat us well. And it's easy
10:03
Speaker 2: to beat yourself up for that and say, what is
10:05
Speaker 2: wrong with me? That is so pathetic.
10:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
10:08
Speaker 2: First of all, that's not a great way to talk
10:10
Speaker 2: to yourself, but also learning about the neuroscience of it,
10:15
Speaker 2: I think is really helpful.
10:16
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree.
10:17
Speaker 3: I mean, I think... Again, a lot of addicts feel
10:20
Speaker 3: guilt because they know what I'm doing is destructive, but
10:23
Speaker 3: I can't stop myself. And if you do understand the
10:27
Speaker 3: neuroscience of it, of what's happened, it makes sense. Oh, yes,
10:31
Speaker 3: I have actually driven my brain into this state. But
10:35
Speaker 3: that is also a starting point for trying to change
10:38
Speaker 3: your behavior so that you can get out of that state.
10:44
Speaker 2: After the break, we'll have tips on how to move
10:46
Speaker 2: on from limerence.
10:52
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11:06
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11:14
Speaker 8: Hi, it's Terry Gross.
11:16
Speaker 7: Ladies and gentlemen, I can say that now because this
11:19
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11:24
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11:33
Speaker 8: Listen on the NPR app or wherever you listen to
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Speaker 8: fresh air.
11:38
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about getting out of it. How do
11:41
Speaker 2: you start to step back? How do you start to say, okay,
11:45
Speaker 2: I'm breaking this addiction?
11:48
Speaker 3: So I think the starting point is to begin with
11:53
Speaker 3: your mindset. Recognize that what's happened is that you followed
12:00
Speaker 3: completely natural urges, completely natural processes that feel good. And
12:06
Speaker 3: in many contexts are good because falling in love with
12:10
Speaker 3: another person and getting head over heels for them actually
12:13
Speaker 3: does feel fantastic if things go well. But it's happened
12:18
Speaker 3: in a context in which it's not good for us.
12:21
Speaker 3: And so the kind of mindset shift is to get
12:24
Speaker 3: into that idea of, okay, well, this is all happening
12:28
Speaker 3: in my head. It's happening within my brain, within my mind.
12:32
Speaker 3: So that's where I need to fix it. And so
12:36
Speaker 3: kind of realising I don't need to change the behaviour
12:40
Speaker 3: of of the person that I'm infatuated with. It is
12:44
Speaker 3: going to be within my own mind that I can
12:48
Speaker 3: recover from this state. And so then reverse the behaviors
12:55
Speaker 3: that you were following that were reinforcing the limerence and
12:58
Speaker 3: do the opposite. So you kind of, if you like,
13:00
Speaker 3: you've accidentally trained yourself into limerence. Now you can deliberately
13:06
Speaker 3: train yourself out of limerence.
13:11
Speaker 2: Okay, takeaway one is to shift your mindset. There's nothing
13:15
Speaker 2: to be ashamed of here. Having a crush on somebody
13:18
Speaker 2: or being in those early stages of a relationship with them,
13:21
Speaker 2: that is a very strong natural high. It's just that sometimes,
13:25
Speaker 2: especially if you can't be with them or if they're
13:27
Speaker 2: not a good fit for you, these feelings get all
13:29
Speaker 2: twisted up and they turn into a behavioral addiction. You
13:33
Speaker 2: feel like you need this person. You overvalue their opinion
13:36
Speaker 2: about you and your life. When that's the case, it's
13:39
Speaker 2: time to step back. And you can do that. You
13:44
Speaker 2: give a few strategies in the book on how to
13:47
Speaker 2: get over limerence, and one of them is to limit contact. Yeah.
13:52
Speaker 3: So cut off your supply, basically. So as far as
13:57
Speaker 3: you can, it's not always possible, of course, that sometimes
13:59
Speaker 3: you can't necessarily control if you're going to have contact
14:03
Speaker 3: with this other person. But as far as you can,
14:07
Speaker 3: limit contact so that you're not reinforcing the addiction. You're
14:12
Speaker 3: not reinforcing that connection.
14:14
Speaker 2: And limiting contact isn't just about like, I don't date
14:16
Speaker 2: this person anymore, or I don't get into long conversations
14:20
Speaker 2: with them or whatever, but it's also, I don't look
14:24
Speaker 2: at their social media and I don't daydream about being
14:29
Speaker 2: with them.
14:30
Speaker 3: Exactly. So any of those sorts of things will reinforce
14:35
Speaker 3: the desire, reinforce the connection. So you want to try
14:38
Speaker 3: and first look at the things that are within your control,
14:42
Speaker 3: like blocking them on social media or using software to
14:47
Speaker 3: mean you literally can't connect with them, but then trying
14:52
Speaker 3: to reduce in-person contact as well.
14:55
Speaker 2: Takeaway two, limit contact. That also means you cannot be friends,
15:01
Speaker 2: at least not until you're over this crush or these feelings.
15:04
Speaker 2: You're trying to do incompatible things to stay close to
15:07
Speaker 2: this person while also losing your romantic feelings for them. Also,
15:11
Speaker 2: your feelings are not likely to stay buried. If you're
15:14
Speaker 2: really crushing on them, it's going to show itself through jealousy,
15:18
Speaker 2: weird behavior, coldness, attempts to smell their hair when you
15:22
Speaker 2: hug them goodbye. Seriously, take a beat. Take many beats. Okay,
15:29
Speaker 2: another strategy you offer is to train your brain.
15:33
Speaker 6: Right?
15:33
Speaker 2: Like to show yourself that you can exercise self-discipline. And
15:37
Speaker 2: you can start by simply noticing the urges you have
15:40
Speaker 2: around this person.
15:41
Speaker 3: So it's recognizing when those impulses, when those urges are
15:46
Speaker 3: coming up from the subconscious, when that wanting drive is
15:50
Speaker 3: pushing you, that you train your executive brain by recognizing it.
15:56
Speaker 3: And even as a first stage, you don't have to
15:58
Speaker 3: take any action. You can In theory, just behave exactly
16:03
Speaker 3: the same way as you would have done, but just
16:05
Speaker 3: spotting it is very powerful. That, oh, that was a
16:08
Speaker 3: limerent urge. Oh, that's my brain trying to push me
16:11
Speaker 3: to connect. That's my reward-seeking urge. So psychologists sometimes call
16:17
Speaker 3: this metacognition. You're sort of thinking about thinking. So you're
16:21
Speaker 3: recognizing your thoughts as you have them and then processing
16:26
Speaker 3: about what the meaning of those thoughts and the meaning
16:29
Speaker 3: of those feelings are. And so that can be very
16:32
Speaker 3: useful as well, because that is a point at which
16:35
Speaker 3: you can kind of exert your willpower to intercede and think, oh,
16:42
Speaker 3: that was a limerent urge. I've decided not to act
16:46
Speaker 3: on those.
16:49
Speaker 2: Takeaway three, train your brain. When you find yourself wanting
16:53
Speaker 2: to interact with this person or get their attention, recognize
16:55
Speaker 2: that urge for what it is. Even if you act
16:58
Speaker 2: on it this time. That'll remind you that you do
17:00
Speaker 2: have free will and that you have choices. You can
17:04
Speaker 2: also do things that reinforce your self-discipline unrelated to this person.
17:08
Speaker 2: Make small promises to yourself and keep them. I'm going
17:11
Speaker 2: to drink a glass of water every morning when I
17:14
Speaker 2: wake up. I'm going to go to bed by 11.30 p.m.
17:17
Speaker 2: I'm not eating lunch at my desk this week. Tom
17:20
Speaker 2: says small things like that can have spillover effects in
17:22
Speaker 2: other parts of our lives and help us exercise self-discipline
17:25
Speaker 2: when we have the urge to, say, look at our
17:28
Speaker 2: crush's Instagram. Another strategy that you offer in the book
17:34
Speaker 2: is about spoiling the rewards you're getting from this person.
17:38
Speaker 2: And you talk about that in terms of daydreams. You
17:41
Speaker 2: say if you find yourself fantasizing about this person, turn
17:45
Speaker 2: your daydreams into your daymares. Can you talk about that?
17:48
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the idea here is that you want to
17:52
Speaker 3: break the association between the person you're infatuated with and reward.
17:58
Speaker 5: Right.
17:59
Speaker 3: So the idea with the daymare strategy is that you
18:01
Speaker 3: take a daydream that you've had and you turn that
18:06
Speaker 3: previously pleasant daydream into a nightmare. If you had this
18:11
Speaker 3: daydream about driving off into the sunset with them, now
18:15
Speaker 3: you change it and they suddenly shout, stop the car,
18:18
Speaker 3: stop the car, and they jump out and say, this
18:20
Speaker 3: is a terrible mistake, I don't know what I was thinking,
18:22
Speaker 3: and they run off and you're left there feeling foolish
18:26
Speaker 3: and ridiculous.
18:30
Speaker 2: Alright, so takeaway four, spoil the rewards for yourself. If
18:33
Speaker 2: you're always fantasizing about this person, change the ending of
18:37
Speaker 2: those daydreams so it's not fun to get lost in
18:39
Speaker 2: them anymore. You could also think about the details of
18:42
Speaker 2: this person that you don't like. The way they treat you,
18:45
Speaker 2: for one. Like that time they were supposed to meet
18:47
Speaker 2: up with you and never showed. Or the fact that
18:50
Speaker 2: they always wear cargo shorts and you think they look
18:53
Speaker 2: bad in them. What you're doing here is intentionally trying
18:56
Speaker 2: to give yourself the ick.
18:58
Speaker 3: There's one last stage that is very important. And that
19:03
Speaker 3: last stage is everything that I've kind of been talking
19:06
Speaker 3: about so far is pretty negative. It's pretty demoralizing. So
19:11
Speaker 3: you're spoiling rewards, you're training your brain, you're breaking contact
19:15
Speaker 3: with somebody that used to be, even if it was unhealthy,
19:19
Speaker 3: a source of excitement and exhilaration. So it's very important
19:24
Speaker 3: that you have something positive going. to look forward to
19:28
Speaker 3: as well as you're going through this process. And so
19:31
Speaker 3: that's the concept that I call purposeful living, where you
19:36
Speaker 3: essentially have to think about using the experience of a
19:41
Speaker 3: negative limerence episode as an opportunity for renewal, that you've
19:46
Speaker 3: learned something about yourself and that you've can then use
19:51
Speaker 3: that to improve your life looking to a more positive.
19:55
Speaker 2: Future yeah and you don't necessarily just have to go
19:59
Speaker 2: from one relationship or crush or whatever into another romantic pursuit.
20:03
Speaker 3: No absolutely it's probably a good idea to take a
20:07
Speaker 3: break from romantic things until you're sure, you're confident that
20:11
Speaker 3: the limerence has passed.
20:15
Speaker 2: Takeaway five, to overcome limerence, live with purpose. Find the
20:19
Speaker 2: things that you enjoy and that offer new rewards that are,
20:23
Speaker 2: as Tom puts it, similar in scope to the feeling
20:26
Speaker 2: of limerence. So basically get your thrills somewhere else. I
20:29
Speaker 2: feel like I've been doing that this summer by playing softball.
20:32
Speaker 2: I love the way it feels when I successfully make
20:34
Speaker 2: a play, the way it feels when the ball lands
20:37
Speaker 2: in my mitt, when my bat cracks against the ball
20:40
Speaker 2: and sends it flying through the air, when I high-five
20:42
Speaker 2: with my teammates, when my foot hits home plate. That's
20:46
Speaker 2: a high, and it includes connection with other people and
20:49
Speaker 2: successful completion, which is one thing that's lacking from an
20:53
Speaker 2: unhealthy limerence situation. So if you're someone who's experienced a limerence,
20:58
Speaker 2: you might be wondering, how am I supposed to date?
21:03
Speaker 2: It's kind of a bummer if you've had one of
21:06
Speaker 2: these unhealthy crushes before or unhealthy romantic situations. Because then
21:12
Speaker 2: going forward, you're not sure you can trust yourself when
21:15
Speaker 2: you like somebody. Because it's like, it led me astray
21:21
Speaker 2: last time. Maybe I just like people who are emotionally unavailable.
21:25
Speaker 3: Yes, and that can be actually... True, in the sense
21:30
Speaker 3: that you may identify the things that attracts you or
21:34
Speaker 3: causes the limerence within you to be something negative. So
21:40
Speaker 3: if it's people that treat you badly or people who
21:43
Speaker 3: are very sarcastic or put you down or something like that,
21:47
Speaker 3: often it can be the case that the triggers for
21:53
Speaker 3: that early excitement, that glimmer, predict bad outcomes for a
21:59
Speaker 3: long-term relationship. And in that case, you know, it is
22:04
Speaker 3: sensible to see it, you know, the limerent glimmer almost
22:08
Speaker 3: as a warning sign rather than, you know, a sign
22:11
Speaker 3: of promise. And, you know, limerence isn't necessary to have
22:18
Speaker 3: a full and happy romantic life.
22:21
Speaker 2: This has been so wonderful, Tom. I really... I loved
22:26
Speaker 2: the book. I learned a lot from it, learned even
22:29
Speaker 2: more from this conversation.
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Speaker 3: That's great to hear. Thank you.
22:34
Speaker 2: That was Tom Bellamy, neuroscientist and author of the book Smitten. Okay,
22:40
Speaker 2: time for a recap. Takeaway one, shift your mindset. Having
22:44
Speaker 2: a crush on someone or being really excited about them
22:46
Speaker 2: isn't necessarily a bad thing, but if you find that
22:49
Speaker 2: you're craving a person you can't be with or someone
22:52
Speaker 2: who you know isn't good for you, it's time to
22:54
Speaker 2: step back. Takeaway two, limit contact. Try not to see
22:59
Speaker 2: them or text them or look at their social media
23:02
Speaker 2: or daydream about them as much as you can. Takeaway three,
23:06
Speaker 2: train your brain to recognize limerent urges and call them
23:09
Speaker 2: out to yourself. Also do things that reinforce your self-discipline
23:13
Speaker 2: unrelated to this person. Takeaway four, spoil the rewards that
23:18
Speaker 2: come with this person. If you're always fantasizing about them,
23:21
Speaker 2: turn those daydreams into daymares. Intentionally give yourself the ick. Finally,
23:27
Speaker 2: takeaway five, to make unhealthy limerence less likely, live purposefully.
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Speaker 2: Find the things that you enjoy and that offer new
23:35
Speaker 2: rewards that are similar in scope to the feeling of limerence.
23:41
Speaker 2: And that's our show. One more thing before we go.
23:44
Speaker 2: Do you follow Life Kit in your podcast app? If not,
23:47
Speaker 2: would you do it now? Go ahead and tap follow
23:50
Speaker 2: so you never miss an episode. This episode of Life
23:53
Speaker 2: Kit was produced by Claire Marie Schneider. Our visuals editor
23:56
Speaker 2: is CJ Riquelon, and our digital editor is Malika Garib.
24:00
Speaker 2: Megan Cain is our senior supervising editor, and Lauren Gonzalez
24:03
Speaker 2: is our executive producer. Our production team also includes Andy Tagle,
24:07
Speaker 2: Margaret Serino, and Sylvie Douglas. Engineering support comes from David
24:12
Speaker 2: Greenberg and Jimmy Keeley. Fact-checking by Tyler Jones. I'm Mariel Segarra.
24:18
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening.
24:26
Speaker 3: This week on Shortwave, Krista Pike's botched execution was no
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Speaker 3: surprise to medical experts.
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Speaker 8: The only thing we did not predict is that she
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Speaker 8: would actually survive all of this.
24:35
Speaker 3: Lethal injection is often portrayed as the most humane way
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Speaker 3: to execute people.
24:39
Speaker 8: Because it looks medical and it looks like it's not
24:42
Speaker 8: too brutal, but looks are deceiving.
24:45
Speaker 3: What really happens on Shortwave, the science podcast from NPR.
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Speaker 6: This fall, there are a lot of movies and TV
24:53
Speaker 6: shows on tap for you to see. And we're as
24:55
Speaker 6: excited for all of it to arrive as you are.
24:58
Speaker 6: On Pop Culture Happy Hour, we've got a guide to
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Speaker 6: what's worth keeping on your radar. Listen via the NPR
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