Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer Jags Show #5 - Pete Pososki, Michigan Jaguars MLS Next Director

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I Hate Soccer Jags Show #5 - Pete Pososki, Michigan Jaguars MLS Next Director · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Pete Pizowski is the MLS next director at the Michigan Jaguars.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: He's previously the director of town identification for the Philadelphia Union MLS Academy.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: He's also a scout for U.S.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: Soccer, and he has a long career both in college, club, and as a scout.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the fifth episode of my partnership with the Michigan Jags of our club partnership.
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: And we discuss player development, coach development, youth soccer as a whole in this country, and just basically his career as a coach.
• 0:43
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• 0:50
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• 0:53
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• 0:55
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• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: Some of you maybe watch every single episode and aren't subscribed.
• 1:01
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• 1:02
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• 1:14
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• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: Enjoy this episode with Pete Pizaski.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_02: I hate soccer.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's a great question.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so honestly, um I left home when I was 24 years old.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was gone obviously the majority of my adult life.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um and chased the career, chased the career, chased the career, worked out.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_03: I was really happy, super happy with where it had gone.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I was getting home whenever I could.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so my father got sick.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I was home.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he seemed fine.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_03: He'd been sick.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_03: I came home, he was he was ill, or he he seemed fine when I was home.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: I left and he got pretty sick and ended up in the hospital.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so I um, you know, look, I mean, he was older.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it didn't seem anything serious, flu type sh, you know, stuff.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_03: And uh, and um, but he was in the hospital, and then all of a sudden I get a phone call from my sister, and she said, you know, look, I talked to the doctors, you should probably come home.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went, grabbed a flight that night into Cleveland, drove up, went straight to the hospital and saw him.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_03: I walked in the hospital room and he turned to my mom and said, How bad is it?
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_03: And that was a moment for me where I was like, because I had come home, it meant things weren't great.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_03: So um obviously he passed while I was home.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it just got the wheels turning.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like what life is kind of about, to be honest with you.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: And I love my dad.
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I still miss him to this day, I always will.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_03: But there was more to it than that.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_03: So now my mom's alone, my sister has gone through a divorce, she's got young girls, and in the end, I'd always stayed in touch with Tinny.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'd always kept my network here at home.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_03: I was working with the union at the time, so I was back more than normal.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, watching players from Michigan that we might be interested in, stuff like that.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_03: Excuses to come home.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I said, you know what?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_03: Tinny had come out and um spent like four or five days with me.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um just kind of showing the ropes with the union, how we do things, because he was looking to to make some tweaks, some changes to some growth for the for the Jags.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_03: And we got to talking.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_03: I was dating a girl at the time, not the one I'm lucky enough to be with now, but a different one who really, you know, pushed the needle as well.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_03: So that combination of things, I said Tinny presented a project, it was pretty exciting, and so I came home.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, I have dinner with my mom.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: The first birthday party I ever went to for one of my nieces.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_03: She turned 14 years old, and I haven't missed one since.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: You know, so um that's why.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, think about this the life of a soccer uh coach and how many things we do miss.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the Jags tournament used to be on on Mother's Day weekend, so I'd I would always be gone.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: I would always be gone on Mother's Day, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just ridiculous.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's it's it's not a job, it's a lifestyle, and that still is the case.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong, it's still the case.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I've got a lot more flexibility, and getting to a birthday party doesn't mean I've been on a plane.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, so um, yeah, I mean, I missed a lot, you know.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: It it's uh relationship-wise, it was very difficult.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um it always started the same.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_03: This will be really cool.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_03: You have your thing, I've got mine.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'll be able to spend time with you know my friends while you're gone, and then it fairly quickly turns into what do you mean you're gone again?
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and what do you mean you can't go to this wedding?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_03: What do you mean, you know, so uh it was one of the things that I dealt with, not dealt with, but um had a lot of interactions with when I first met back with just various people, um, you know, whether in the Jags or not.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_03: And it they had seen kind of what I had done and they thought it was some of parts of it were cool, which they were.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_03: And they're the the question was like, you know, how how do I get to that point?
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I think the answer is fairly simple.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um you say yes to everything.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_03: Can you do this?
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_03: Can you go there?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: Can you be here?
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: Every time.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: And then that leads to opportunities.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_03: And if you take advantage of those opportunities, but you can't turn any of them down, in my opinion.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure there's people who are better at this than I am that that can do it a different way.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: But my answer was always to be available.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: You had to.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_00: You had to, because you had to like stack experiences and and just you didn't want to be the person that turned somebody down.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, because you you never knew what was gonna what was gonna come of it.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 6:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the scouting, recruiting, coaching.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, I'll stay for another game.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'll watch.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I I I distinctly remember I was coaching girls college.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I was out in, I think it was like Vegas or something.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it was they're kicking off games at nine, ten o'clock at night, and I'm looking around, and it's like me and some parents, and I find a kid out of Canada, you know, that ends up being able to play in the SEC that just was on a random backfield, you know, uh that no one else is around.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: So uh I I don't think that's necessarily the best way to go about things.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I don't think it necessarily hurts you if you're looking to to climb and and and to grind and to be successful.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_03: What years were you at Philly?
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Philly was a big part of my life.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so I I was with the women's team at Penn from 05 to uh 2010, 09.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, took a quick trip down to Virginia Tech, came back to Philly, joined the men's side from like 2011 or 12 to 16, and then the union until 18 with some US soccer stuff in there.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: Were you there when like Ben Efemia was there?
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_00: Were you part of like were you there when that recruiting process was going on?
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_03: No, Ben was so um I still keep in touch with these guys.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a nice little lineage of of uh academy directors or or scouting directors for the academy in in Philly.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_03: That was Mark Brazant, okay, who's now the basically the number two out in San Diego with SDFC.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, okay.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_03: He had left.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he and I were tight because I was working at Penn and we had mutual friends and we became pretty good friends when he was with Philly.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_03: He left to work with Man United.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and he recommended me.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then I left and came home and and started this stuff with Celtic and and uh I knew John Shear, and so John Shear took over from me and then trickle down, trickle down, trickle down.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_03: I still keep in touch with all those people.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_03: We have a little group that we always keep in touch.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_00: At Virginia Tech, were you on the girl's side or the message?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was, I was on the girl side, yeah.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_00: Trevor.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then you switched, sorry.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I because I actually just had uh Central Michigan's coach on James DeCosmo, and he was talking about how like an AD once told him it was like once you switch from boys to women, you're never going back to boys.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: But you kind of have like a different path where you were in college, like in women's college, and then you get into the MLS Academy, and so it can happen.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_03: It certainly can.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I was very lucky in that everywhere I had been on the women's side had a men's staff.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I went to North Trule.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Northern Illinois, they had a men's staff.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_03: I went to Penn, they had a men's staff, I went to Virginia Tech, they had a men's staff.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I had always been friendly and um you know colleagues with those guys.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_03: Became pretty close at my time at Penn when I was on the on the women's side with the men's staff.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, Rob Irvin was the assistant.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_03: He and I, you know, actually like lived together, and I stood up in his wedding, all that kind of stuff.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_03: And and so I was at Virginia Tech and we'd went to a suite 16, and I just kind of had an I don't know, maybe this is a me problem.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: I was just kind of set back and and then had some light interviews for head jobs, and it hadn't gone great.
• 10:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I'd kind of seen that year when I was in the ACC at Virginia Tech, we had nine teams make the NCAA tournament, only eight make the ACC tournament.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: We had nine make the NCAA tournament.
• 10:23
  SPEAKER_03: There were seven or eight of us in the Sweet 16, or three of the final four.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I felt like I had kind of got a pretty good roadmap of what college soccer on the women's side had looked at like at that point, and I just kind of was trying to figure out where I might best fit and had an opportunity out in San Diego, and you know, like I said, I'd been pretty close with the men's staff at Penn.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so I called the the boss there.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: He's now like the number two AD, but he was the men's soccer coach at the time.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_03: And I just said, Hey, look, I'm this is what I'm thinking.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: This is kind of where I'm at with my career.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I just called him as a friend and a and a person, a mentor, so to speak, that I really respected.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_03: And um just to pick his brain on things, and he said, All right, well, let me ask you a question.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Will you move back to Philly and work at Penn?
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I'm going back to the women's staff at Penn.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I appreciate it, but no, I'm good.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And he said, No, I want you to, you know, I've got an I've just been able to fundraise for a another assistant with the with the soccer program here and on the men's side, and I'd like you to come and join.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I went, Oh man, I don't know, like it wasn't enough to live on.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it was kind of a reset completely for my career.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I took the plunge, I went for it, and um I went from being a first assistant at an ACC school and going to a suite 16 to be a glorified uh volunteer assistant almost.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't, but you know, it was an official position, but it the pay wasn't fantastic, and uh picked up a couple of club teams and grinded it out, made it work.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um again said yes to everything.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_03: I started scouting for U.S.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_03: soccer at that point, um tongue recruiting on the men's side and just you know, just worked until I got to know a lot of people and opportunities presented themselves from there.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: All right, are you on the field at all right now?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_03: I am, yeah.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_03: With Steve, I've always okay, yeah, yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_03: So so he's going to Austin.
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_03: He is, yeah.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, he's down there right now.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_03: He texted me yesterday.
• 12:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So Steve's gone, and now are you kind of like filling in until you get a replacement for him?
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, I'm always on the field.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_03: Always have been.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I'm there almost every night as much as I possibly can be um with the role.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's some other things I gotta do now and again, but that the vast majority of my time was always with the MLS group um with the Jags.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, but now yeah, I've got to lead the trainings and and uh be a little more dialed in in terms of how I want things to flow throughout a session because it's not necessarily in someone else's hands.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I'm not just hopping in and making points, it's kind of you know running the whole thing.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_03: So that uh that takes up a little bit of time, but yeah, uh we're figuring that out as we go.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_03: We've got some fantastic people that are interested.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we're gonna take our time with it.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna have guys come in and and uh you know work with the groups, get to know the boys, get to know the staff, and vice versa.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because we want it to be a good fit.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just about whether or not they can coach, you know.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: When when Paul came out to like Philadelphia Union, and when you wanted to like show them the ropes or show them everything that was going on, like what was the result of that?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_00: What would like was he did he find what he was hoping for?
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: What did you show him?
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: I mean it's difficult for me to answer for him, right?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_03: Um but I think it was look, I think in soccer a lot of times we get stuck in our bubbles.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like this is soccer, it's a part of soccer, it's not all of soccer.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think a big part of that for Paul was seeing what else is out there and what boys of ages that you know work and play for him um are doing.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: And there's a little bit more than than um what we were doing here, and then there's some things that we can't do here as well, of course.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think that was a big piece, you know.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: At that at that time, he had a really good age group um on the on the US YS level, uh, very competitive, incredibly competitive nationally.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the you know, the the the the uh impetus for this thing was kind of like, hey, these guys need more.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so Paul called me and said, you know, would would you maybe be able to help them?
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, What do you want?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_03: And he's like, Well, you know, can we come out and play you?
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, sure, if you want to.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so he's like, I would love that.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_03: So he came out early ahead of that and spent time with me, and you know, met the people and and uh lived the lived the life for a few days with me.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: And then their group came out and we played them, and we set up another game against a uh a local club team, but we played them with our union boys, and uh yeah, yeah, I think that was a fairly eye-opening experience for for the people from here, yeah.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: Uh to come out, you know.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_03: And in fact, one of the I I texted Paul the other day, I said, if you turn on FS1 right now, the kid who played goal against you is on TV.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so when did when did the union start their academy?
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: Before you got there.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: He was already uh yeah, Mark Przant and you know Tommy Wilson was the first academy director.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, you got Jeff Cook and Chris Brewer and uh Kevin Coleman and you know a few of the guys are still there, who uh Richie Graham was running what was called YSC.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it was like a um a Toka Wixam light, a total sports Wixam light.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, um a small indoor space, an outdoor field.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, the when the union came in, Richie was generous and gracious enough to kind of take over the youth space for them as an owner.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_03: So he's an owner with the with the the union, um, and his focus was kind of the academy.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I don't know if you know Richie Graham at all.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: Is it uh I know of him, yeah.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_03: He's a fantastic human being, right?
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_03: What an amazing guy.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_03: Incredibly intelligent, incredibly generous, heart always in the right place.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_03: So one of the things I loved about the union was he cared as much about the boys that weren't gonna be pros as he did about the ones who were, or we hoped were.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they were just as important, uh, and he would pay for it, and and then he would, you know, he would have that expense uh on the line to make sure those kids got opportunities to be seen for college, and you know, he put the school in, and so they get a good education.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, he hired head of schools from some private schools on the east coast to kind of oversee the union education system, right?
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_03: That he built, and you know, hired teachers, and I mean he did an amazing and amazing job, and so that was all in place.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, now at that time, still when I walked in, I was the director of talent identification, it's you know, director of one.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we were trying to, you know, Tommy and I were working on okay, where do we need help?
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how can we build this out?
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we need more eyes, we need more bodies.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: It's like me doing an entire continent by myself isn't gonna work.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_03: And at that point, we actually hadn't had anybody west of the Mississippi yet, you know, or tried pretty hard for a few guys, it just wasn't quite happening.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it's grown organically, you know, um, through the years, but they've done an amazing job.
• 18:01
  SPEAKER_03: And I was lucky to be a small part of that.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: How big is the recruiting network now?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: Do you use any uh outside companies or is it all just union guys when you were there?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, it's all just it's all just union.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: It's all just union guys, and then if I knew some guys I could get them per DM money and stuff like that.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, no, no, no outside services.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's very um, you know, we had a certain type of player that we wanted, and I felt like you you kind of needed to know who we were, um who the boys were, who we wanted to be.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: You had to live it a little bit to understand who might fit.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but I think it did a pretty good job.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_03: You're not gonna bat a thousand, but no.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: How many and so everybody when I whenever I have an MLS academy director on, somebody in the comments or uh just attacks me and says, Well, one, they think I'm an MLS profiteer, so that's one thing.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: But two, it's like they just start ripping on the academies.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, guys, this is still so young.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like MLS next, when you start ripping on that, it's five years old, it's six years old.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, can we like grow into this organically and see what this is gonna be before we try to like root for it to fail?
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: No, incredibly valuable, incredibly like I think it was uh forgive me, I might get it wrong, but I want to say I felt like our 05s, maybe our 06s birth years in at the union were like the first boys that were really influenced a big chunk of their lives by the union existing, if that makes sense.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_03: So they grew up in you know the Philadelphia area, and let's say they're four, five, six years old, old enough to understand you know, professional soccer, and they have it.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: But that's the first group, and those guys are 20 years old.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, 21, yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_03: So um but I think you see it a little bit in terms of what they've been able to produce, but that's how long it, in my opinion, it takes before you can really start to judge you.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_03: I I I think it's unfair to underestimate the impact of having that professional MLS um organization in your city and the surrounding area, the impact it has on kids, you know.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um when they walk into the building, they see the guys you know there.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_03: They see them, they're professionals, they're right there.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, and now you can walk into the building and there's pictures of of guys that have grown up there and made it.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that takes time.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: You can't you can't manufacture that.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, a a kid growing up, and as long as he can remember they've played professional soccer, you know, within a short drive for him, like that probably has some influence on the way they view life.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I had a uh I had a player from Buffalo that was on trial for the union in the last couple years, and but he never went to the union, he went to other like satellites and stuff like that.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_00: Or that that was like in the surrounding area, and then and then how was it?
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: If you were new, you had to go to the second team at the union, but then if after your first year, then you can make the first team.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is that right?
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is if it is, it's new, right?
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_03: But I mean, I I haven't been there in yeah, four years, three years.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's I've been back what is it, 2026?
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_03: I've been back almost eight now.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't realize you came back that early.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_00: How much of a role did you play in helping get MLS next to the Jags?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_03: I I mean I I would I would hope I uh I helped a decent amount.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't know.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: I I look, I think it's a fantastic market.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: You know, it's a great club with fantastic people, um, good human beings that care about the right things.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so was I able to maybe uh talk to some people that I knew and and share that.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: And on a more personal level, sure, but it you know, I couldn't just manufacture it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_03: It it it was already in place.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, I was able to help um show the story a little bit to people that would like it and understand it and want it to be a part of what they were doing.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_00: Cause I just I mean, when I left, so I spent the last 11 years in Buffalo.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: When I left, it was only Vardar and Wolves.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then and then the DA obviously folded, and then I come back, and now uh Jags has it, Midwest has it, MFA or whatever, A G R C now.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, now, but then now there's the Academy, there's homegrown, there's all that, and it's just like the landscape has changed when you got back.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Were you like, whoa, Michigan?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you like you always knew that Michigan was a little hotbed?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, I I knew that I didn't, I don't think I I've been gone so long.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know that I understood um the of the growth that had happened because I grew up here, you know, like you said, and just Wolves and Bar.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_03: I played for the Wolves my entire life and never played for anybody else.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: Um so that was home in in my head.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh but I'd known Paul since I was, you know, 16 years old.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_03: So he gave me my first coaching job.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um so it it surprised me a little bit, but uh yeah, I mean I had a a pretty good idea that Metro Detroit would have a lot of soccer talent.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah.
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's been it's been fun, it's been a good row.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't know.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: And again, the youth of everything and everybody trying to reinvent the wheel or try to blow up the system and do their own system.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, how do you when you were with the union, did you pay attention to any of that or worry about the the health of the league?
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: Especially now with uh we a after we've seen the DA fall when we thought that the DA would just last forever, I'd have I mean uh everybody did.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: And now it's more like okay, can we just build a club and bulletproof a club regardless of platform?
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because maybe the ECNL goes away, maybe the MLS next goes away, and maybe something else comes.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, did you guys think about that?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_00: Or were you guys just really just focused on finding the top players in the country and getting them in your under your system?
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it was definitely the latter.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think we're I don't know that we were ever really concerned because I've we were always gonna probably be in a a place that made sense um in terms of games and things like that.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I believe the same thing about us here now.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um what you're describing, what you're talking about, is 100% exists, but that affects the Saturday.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_03: And Saturdays are test days.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the work you do Monday through Friday is is what really matters.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um it's where you have the biggest impact.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then where you take that, you know, we talk to the boys all the time, it shouldn't matter.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_03: You know, when you play, you play.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_03: If you're playing in this league or that league or against this team or that team, I don't understand why that impacts what you do, right?
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um now, does it matter?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, right?
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: You talk about rules and you know, um roster rules or something as basic and simple as substitut substitution rules, you know, that can really transform that Saturday.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_03: Um but we experience that anyway.
• 26:17
  SPEAKER_03: We can rock up Saturday and the weather's perfect.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_03: That can be terrible.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the surface, same perfect, terrible.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_03: Does that mean we're not gonna do our best?
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so whatever constrictions are put on that weekend, the goal is that what we've done through the week prepares us to be successful still, right?
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_03: So do I think it's a a big deal?
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, I do.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um does it is it is there frustration at times with with trying to figure out that side of things with the leagues and what's allowed, what's not?
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um can it be frustrating when there's all these tweaks and changes and stuff?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Sure, I don't necessarily understand them, let alone maybe agreeing with them.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_03: It's hard to agree if I don't understand, but um I we don't spend much time worrying about that.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we uh we'll play with whatever's thrown our way, right?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: As long as we do our jobs and our best through those, you know, through the week, uh where we end up on the weekend is when uh within okay, your role with union was town ID, town identification.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: Now, who set the standard of what you're going to try to find?
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was it the first team coach or was it the academy setup?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: And how many first team coaches did you have while you were there?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_00: Just Jim Curtin, just one the whole time that helps.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_03: It does, it does it, it helps a tremendous amount.
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, and the leadership was stable too.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I had Ernie.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: Ernie Stewart was our sporting director.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a ton from him, you know, sitting next to him and watching, like I said, I uh I tried to live it, right?
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, I was the talent ID, but I ran, you know, technical sessions in the morning because at the union we trained in the morning and then in the afternoon as well or at night.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: So we you know, we'd run you'd have your your days during the week that you did the technical piece, the small-sided piece in the morning with all the guys before school, um, which was awesome because you got to know them as people and work with them and feel them, you know, and and what they went through.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: And so it helped a lot with what you were looking for in terms of personalities and and mindsets for players you were bringing in.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then at night, you know, the team training would happen and or we would have scrimmages or whatever, and I would get to sit with Ernie Stewart and we would talk about players and stuff like that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I learned I learned a ton.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a ton of fantastic education.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: He's not involved anymore, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: Isn't he back in in Holland now?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_03: He went uh he he left about the same time I'd a little before I did.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_00: And how how many uh of the guys that you worked with are still there?
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: Still there or good hand a good handful?
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, there's a good amount still, and a good amount that have moved on to other places too.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because I just saw that uh the union, they're doing this thing where they're going into the schools.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: They they selected about 12 school districts, I think it was 12, and they're going in and teaching soccer and having like soccer classes, sure.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I always just felt like Philadelphia.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_00: There's something about the union that was forward thinking or um just innovative.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_03: Look, again, Richie's fantastic, yeah.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_03: You really unique guy.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and no problem paying it forward.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, that falls into the paying it forward bucket, I would assume, for Richie.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, could we maybe glean something out of it in terms of players and fans, and sure, but I know at its core he's okay with how it goes as long as they're bringing the game to people, and that's him.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, you had Tommy Wilson was there um my entire time as well as the academy director who had an amazing background.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_03: I learned a ton from him as well, you know, um, with his time at Rangers.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I thought that wasn't the best, but uh, you know, he's a guy, he's a Scottish guy who played at a high level, well, well respected, and had a fantastic background and an idea for what he wanted the academy to look like, and you know, with the objective of obviously producing players.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but yeah, I mean I learned a ton from him as well.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_03: It was a it was a wonderful bubble that I got to be inside of of guys who had experience and ideas, and it we were morphing it to fit the not just American player, but Philadelphia, you know, because I'm a firm believer that who you are should represent where you are.
• 31:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um and I think they do a good job of that, and so yeah, I I can't say enough good things about my time there, um and my development and my views, and um hopefully a little bit of understanding on what we're trying to do.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, how much how much of that are you able to bring back here, especially with the how the coaching staff works together?
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because what I've noticed about this club is that the coaches work together to maybe just uh maybe I don't want to say more, but it's just it seems more of a staff that's all going in the same direction for the most part, at least from where I uh where I'm seeing it, because I know that there's clubs where there's it's just a collection of coaches and it's just a collection of teams, and there is no direction.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And how do you I mean I know that your primary focus is MLS and uh MLS next staff?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do you help those guys like along?
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: And as a director, and you know, like I don't know.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it recruiting?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: Is it recruiting coaches or is it is it also development?
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: But you can't like go to somebody's like, I'm gonna develop you.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's like it's like it's it coaches have to want to be developed as well.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_03: 100%, yeah, 100%.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think first and foremost, we just want to work with good people.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_03: Good people, you know, and then it's a lot of conversations and trying to get to know people, it's leadership to your service, you know.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um I don't think it's that hard if you're in it for the reason of you're just trying to help people, that's it.
• 33:23
  SPEAKER_03: At our core, we just we're just trying to help people.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_03: And if we can use the game in soccer to do that, fantastic.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_03: But so much of what we talk about with the boys and the staff, they're all kind of on board, I I think.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um is what kind of person are they gonna be?
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_03: Uh can we give them a skill set and tools that will help them through life?
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_03: That includes giving them challenges.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um if you have a child, would you rather that child went through some turbulence and some tough times when they were 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 years old?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: And and they have a safe space at home, and they have a safe space with us that we know they know we care about them, and they have to overcome those hurdles in that situation, or when they're 23 years old and they've got to move out of the house and get a job, and then have their first moment of like, oh, I don't know if this is something I can do.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like I I firm believer that we're gonna benefit if it's the first one, exactly.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: And they're a little more resilient at that point, right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so you know, we give them those challenges, but at in the end, we're we're trying to help them, and and for us, um, you know, the successes are are all equal, they're successes.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we've got some boys that um maybe no longer play, but they're helping their family with a family business, yep.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_03: And they're doing a great job, and they're knocking out of the park, and that's a win.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we've got other boys that have signed professional contracts, maybe moving on to some pretty cool stuff.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: That's a win, but I don't know that it weighs more than the first one.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, we have people with that similar mindset.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we spend a lot of time together.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_03: A lot of time together.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, we with the MLS staff, we we travel together.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_03: So when we go play Toronto in a few weeks, we're all gonna hop in the car and do the drive together.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_03: And we sit on each other's benches, and you know, we talk about the game and we talk about life, and we talk about you know our our own lives and and our players, and we dive into who they are as people and who they are as players, and we spend a lot of time together.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that helps.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_03: Now it means you gotta like the bird, the person, you have to probably have similar views.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_03: We don't ever all want to be the same, right?
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the way we go about our business is all a little bit different, which is great because one may resonate a little bit more with with one of the boys than another.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so we we always are we're still our own people, but I think who we are at our core is is all very similar, and I think that goes through the organization, you know.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um there's a reason I came back here, yeah.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: And uh yes, of course I've got family, um, but I also have uh professional colleagues that I really enjoy and I think are fantastic human beings, and unfortunately, that's not as common as it I wish maybe it was in this business, right?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um I think it's easy to get caught up in some of the stuff the the the Saturdays.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: You can get you can get caught up in that a lot, and it can drive everything.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and don't get me wrong, I think we are incredibly competitive people.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, if you look at our staff and and the staff in general at the Jags, a lot of successful people who crave success.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: We crave success, we just don't only identify it in one way, right?
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_03: Don't get me wrong, we try and win every single game we play at every age group at all times.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter if it's a friendly or a playoff, anything in between.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_03: We keep score.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: It's a game, we keep score, we try and win it.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_03: We don't ever go into it without that, but we have certain things that we're not gonna sacrifice to do it right because we don't identify successful just that.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_00: You talked about like the wake-up call when Paul came to Union.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_00: Are you guys still getting a wake-up call, or is it through the growth of the club?
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_00: Is it we're not it's not the wake-up call that it was eight years ago or nine years ago?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um like what's Toronto gonna look like?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, that's no.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um we uh wake-up call might not be the right term, right?
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think the youngest group gets a wake-up call every every year because they haven't lived it yet.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they don't know what they don't know.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: And is that against MLS Academies or is that just MLS next in general?
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: In general, yeah, in general, um, and it's train too, you know.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's not just again the weekends, it's the Monday through Friday that is different for them.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we we ramp it up pretty good.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And the the ramping it up, is that coach-led?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that by the coach, or is it just by the collection of the uh the boys as well?
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Or both all of it, all of it.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_03: It's the amount of contact time we have with them.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, it's the coaches, although we have we have, I think we have a good um pathway all the way down with like-minded people, you know.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_03: They we can't just start when they hop into MOS next.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's not gonna work, right?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like they again, they have to have a solid platform that we can stress them out of, but it's a safe space for them to to to operate from.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, all the way down, I think they're it's coming, but once they hop into the league, they drink through a fire hose for a while, you know, like that's just the reality of it.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_03: Look, yeah, I mean, it is every day is tough.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, every day is tough.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we try and express that to them.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_03: I try and express it to the parents, you know, when we have our meeting, which will be coming up soon.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um, this is really difficult.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_03: Now, it may not feel like it at times because the ones who love it, they embrace it.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 39:29
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's still hard.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's still hard.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's it's definitely because think about where they're coming from.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: They might be coming from an area where it's just it's not every game isn't intense where you're going into an environment where every single session, training session, is intense because the games are even more intense than that.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_00: And so you have to prepare and you have to like not grow up, but you have to uh come of age.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: True.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: While you're while you're in it.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um I it's it's definitely um it's it's a it's a tough one to explain because in the end you're playing you're still playing soccer.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um but also some of it's natural, like they're just growing up, right?
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_03: So as they grow up, like we we identify um the different stages of development that they're in when they're in the club, you know, depending on their age.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_03: There's a there's a mental and a physical um stage that we kind of put them in, and that dictates what kind of information we give them and what we ask of them.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um so some of it is just a natural growth, maturity, right, type of situation.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um but yeah, I mean the stressors of the league I think are a huge plus in in terms of molding players, and I think you see it, you know.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_03: I think we're we have pretty good brand or pretty good players at this point.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, so uh in Buffalo, RNYFC, right, that was uh part of MLS next, it was like 13s, 14s, they really, really struggled, you know, in in just the league, they just really really struggle.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_00: 15, 16, they start to compete, 17s, 18s, and 19s, they start to uh to win games.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like, and then whenever I had a player that was 13 or 14, and the parents would contact me about getting them that my opinion of it's like, trust me, it gets better because they they adapt to the to the level and they get used to the demands and they get used to just well, and you probably have natural attrition too, right?
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: So you start to get into that 14-15 age range in development mentally, there might be some other things that they become more attractive, yeah, and they're drawn to.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um, or they might find the game in soccer to be more important to them, you know, or school or another sport, or it's kind of this.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: I I think it's naturally kind of this age where what you're left with are probably guys that are pretty into it, you know.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, like you said, not only do you have the experience, but the like-mindedness of your group is probably a little bit closer than it was, or more tight-knit than it was when they were 13 or 14.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, I I think you get some experience, you get some natural maturity and growth, you get um an education in the game, and it lends itself to winning and competing, and you know, what you're left with is a group that if you get them pointed in the right direction can do some cool stuff.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Was it like that at the union too?
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh when when uh because uh because the players didn't necessarily can't come to you.
• 43:14
  SPEAKER_00: Were you already getting boys that have kind of already been through that transition?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh most of them think so.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_03: Most of them think so.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, if you're talking about the the boys in residency, yeah.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that is brutal.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_03: That is really, really hard.
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you're moving away from home and everything is first rate, first class with the union.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the the housing and the the atmosphere, the familiness, uh togetherness um is fantastic.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: And it's as I think as good as you could pretty much do it, but it's still really hard.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: You're alone.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: As much as you're in that, you know, a house with those other boys and the family.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: and you're still not with your family and you're not in your house anymore and and that is hard is really hard and then on top of that maybe you didn't make a roster maybe you didn't make a travel group maybe you didn't make a starting lineup maybe you got pulled and you're still dealing with all the other stuff it's hard it's really hard um so as much as I think every single one of them told you yeah absolutely I this this is what I need to do this is where I need to be I'm excited for it there are always moments where you're like boy I don't know I don't know I don't know if I can do this and that's great I think it's a really valuable thing to go through and and at the MOS academies you're constantly bringing in kids on trial and trying to find the next best player and that can't be easy for a kid and then and then yeah what is the attrition rate uh like how many guys would you guys bring back the following year or would you replace them because I always get into when we get so obsessed as coaches following other academies around the world and we're like oh they're the best in the world it's like yeah they are very very good at what they do but they also have a scouting network that is literally from Japan to California and they can just go all over the world and that helps like having that kind of scouting network helps every a lot of youth coaches are gonna look like geniuses if you have the best group of you 12 year olds in the world.
• 45:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah look uh I mean uh I remember when when I had first started at the union it was fairly early on and I was in the office pretty late it was probably like eight o'clock at night or something and I'm in the office and it's just Tommy and I and he you know I go into his office and we're talking and he's you know I sit down and he's like Pete um just so you know the two most inju important jobs in this place are yours and mine.
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_03: Okay thanks but to your point um Tommy was responsible for the culture environment the education that's incredibly important incredibly important and then I was responsible for the talent that came through the doors which is fairly important.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah a little bit yeah can't make chicken soup out of chicken shit yeah exactly so yeah no it's uh it was it's definitely a role in it there's no doubt you have to have you have to have the talent for sure it's uh like and I do know Bill Boyle at all yeah from Niagara and uh I had him on and he was talking about going on trips to Morocco and and whatnot and Japan and somebody in the comments was like is he a coach or a recruiter?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like you're an idiot because college soccer is 80% recruiting 70% recruiting and it's dictated on what you what you can do on the field is dictated by how good you're you recruit and I and I am starting to believe that when we talk about Messiah it's like yeah I love the the tiki taca I love the rondos I love their style of play but they are but if they didn't get their recruiting right sure that system might not look like it does for the last 15 20 years.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean there was a lull there was a little lull in Spain they're back now but there was a little lull like when they lose to Russia and they didn't try to blow everything up and restart their system or reinvent anything they just kept going and eventually they had that next crop that is what we're in right now.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I think it's pretty common and I don't know the reason for it um but you see it fairly regularly like there's a group and age usually that like for whatever reason there's a ton of talent in that age you know I remember when I was at the union I felt like I could go pretty much anywhere in the country and find an 08 that was gonna knock it out of the park for for whatever reason that age birth date in my opinion at that time and this is you know a few years ago I felt like was it was like there was a ton of talent in that age group all over the place and then you'll have other years where you're like yeah I can't find it there's nothing you know and I don't know is it the water is it whatever moon they were born who knows but uh it happens it I think it genuinely happens.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think there's really any science behind it.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe there is and people smarter than me know about but yeah it it it certainly happens.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: So you could see that like countrywide because I remember being here with the oh or the 99 boys age group and then in the 2000 it was kind of like a a a drop off it's like this the state's not the same and then 01 it'd be back up and then oh twos would be back down it's like it's weird how it goes in that and I'm just thinking state like in western New York 05s 05 girls were amazing 04s were pretty good 06s nah 07s nah 08s unbelievable again it's like what happens in 08s but then it's like what happens in those years and then when you were saying oh eights I was like well the market collapsed right it's like okay what do the 2020s look like because the the because of COVID is 2020s going to be our best year um yeah I don't know man I it it for me it's one of those little phenomenon things that that kind of creep up now and again I think for the most part it's pretty regular but then you just get these blips and they go in both directions.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_03: How uh okay so now you're non-MLS how what's the parent education look like of what this is all about right because everybody thinks that well well you we're in the MLS next our goal is to get to an MLS academy I was like well calm down even the kids at the MLS academy not all of their goals is to make the MLS some of it is let's let's get a contract overseas let's play college soccer like how do you go about like making every parent realize that okay your kid isn't all not all of you are going to an MLS academy some of you might yeah but what our real goal is just get better every single day and then but the chips fall where they may basically yeah yeah to a large extent um it's a great question I probably don't have a good answer for it I probably don't do a good enough job of it to be honest with you um I think we we try and we're we are always honest we're always very honest um we don't really recruit kids um we don't promise them much if anything um in a lot of ways I think we go the other direction we tell them how hard it is we tell them how difficult it's gonna be um we try and you know express that to them um we talk about the year what may come um I think they have to live it they have to experience it the ups the downs the travel the time away the the things you miss the sacrifices you make the rewards you get from it they have to live all that um and then in a lot of ways you know they they're gonna figure out what's best for them and and I think the number one thing we stress is that you have to run your own race that's a huge one a huge one you have to run your own race you can't get anywhere by looking at the other people while you're trying to run yours if you want to run your best race you're not gonna do it by looking off to your side at what someone else is doing.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_03: That's just the reality of it.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so you got to be where your feet are you got to run your own race and that's really difficult especially now especially now with the cell phones and the recruitment almost happening seems like seemingly earlier and earlier and then say well he just committed or she just committed and now I have to like now you feel so far behind because they're they're committed and you're like still trying to figure out where you want to go and who to talk to yeah and it's it's like absolutely just run and it's trust the process and but like and parents can't stand that no but it's true it's I'm sorry but it's like don't trust the process enjoy the process because it's you're gonna look back and be like oh my god we were so stressed and this is like didn't mean anything yeah you're I think you're spot on there I think absolutely and enjoying the process is is a huge part of it and we try and talk about that you know I'll have these parents that'll call and say hey we've got this opportunity wherever we're gonna go take it what do you think and I said well let me ask you this question what are you looking to get out of it you know if you're looking forward to hopping in the car with your son and getting that however many hours of one-on-one type with your child and you're gonna have a fun experience and you might see some things you're gonna have some conversations and soccer is a vehicle that allows you to do that it's gonna be a great experience man if you're doing it because you think that it'll lead to this next step of your soccer career that's gonna be dangerous.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that that'll work.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: So what's your mindset going into it doesn't mean when you get there and you go through it that you're not giving absolutely everything to make it happen.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah of course but you are you enjoying the journey to get there are you doing it because you're gonna get some chat time with your child you know that's just you and them because you got them trapped in a car and they can't do anything about it you know um if if that's your mindset and and what you want out of it can't lose when you when you were okay when you were doing your circles like trying to find talent for the union how many different MLS guys were looking at the exact same players or the exact same event or the same game and what is the relationship of the different MLS academies because I'm really only familiar with everything that I see at Fest or saw at um uh playoffs or what Louise tells me or you know what I mean and and I just and I see it from afar because the reason why I ask that because Michigan's different I truly feel that Michigan's different in terms of how we all interact with each other for the most part all of us are cordial everybody talks to everybody Wags is is close with Tinyon who's close with Lewis uh Robinson who's you know and everybody we've all been here for so long that we all know each other and we all kind of like get along is the MLS like that or is it more like oh I'm not talking to those galaxy guys yeah so I I I Tyson in very in very many ways I think it is like that right and don't get me wrong the the difference is like direct comp direct competitors right direct competition but I still think it's for the most part it's pretty friendly because we're all in the same space yeah they're all in the same space and they know exactly what you're going through yeah and you know what they're going through.
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah yeah you have a bond you know like we we started this off with you make a lot of sacrifices to do this.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah and so do the other people so you have that I think connection which helps um you know you can have different philosophies that maybe create friction um disagreements with how people do things or whatever that's natural that's in everything though like that's you know I was driving here today and I didn't like the whole the way somebody stopped at a light and how long they took to make the turn we're still both driving you know I just wouldn't have done it the same way it really pissed me off yeah it's the same thing but we're both in the car nobody wants to get in an accident nobody wants to hurt anyone example like we're okay you know like that's not how I would do it I don't like it but whatever man we got there yeah and I I think there's a bit of that within our world it's just it's a re it's a huge world but it's a really small world it it is and that's a good way to put it because because in almost every single conversation I have even with the MLS guys that are from California it's like we all know somebody who knows somebody who play like and it's it's and they all coach multiple spots well not all of them but a lot of them they coach at multiple spots and they and they hit different academies like Larry Sunderland's a prime example right he's been uh everywhere right and even like Tyson who's at Galaxy he was at Austin FC or yeah at the start and now he's back in in LA or it's it is a small world who was your like coaches at Wolves did you have Sucluna or I did yeah Derek Williford was a oh really yeah he was a huge influence on me yeah uh those important teenage years I don't think he's coaching anymore.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I I ran into him not too long ago you know I think he's doing the family thing and yeah um it seemed like maybe he missed it a little bit yeah but I think he was enjoying the family yeah um I I had Lars um who was the first soccer coach I ever had he I think he hates when I tell that story but it's sure I love Lars he's fantastic what an amazing human being great guy you know fantastic human being and you know taking it back to what we do if somebody tells me you want to go play for the wolves okay great why wouldn't you Lars is an amazing human being I'd be thrilled if my kid played for him now I think we do an amazing job and I'm thrilled if your kids want to play for us but if you choose that that's okay that's okay yeah right we can't be for everybody we don't try and be for we try and be who we are and we want the people who want to be here with us.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: Because again it's really hard it's really hard you know so if you're gonna choose to be with us I want it to be because you feel this is the best place for you.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right and and I mean here and again we're we're at the Jags headquarters not every club has this not every club has where the staff interacts with each other as much as they do usually it's just a okay the MLS next guy stayed to the MLS the next guy is the girls side sticks to the girls side and everything just like separate whereas here in that like the expo it's just so nice to see all everybody just mingling with everybody and that's multiple clubs too sure because this year at the expo you had Liverpool there you had Midwest guys there you had nationals guys there and you had pretty much everybody except maybe the maybe Hawks I don't know but yeah yeah yeah but I I think it goes back to what we were just talking about.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're all kind of living a very similar life intricacies might be different but I don't again this stuff is hard enough as it is I don't need to be fighting with people you know I I love I I want nothing but success for our compatriots rising tide yep you know I want everybody to be successful.
• 1:00:55
  SPEAKER_03: When Lupinick calls me I pick up every time it's great guy Morris or Mike both both Morris probably a little more often but yes either one you know I'll pick up every time and those we lose kids to them they lose kids to us when I say lose I mean kids choose to go one or the other um same with the wolves you know when those guys if they call if they need something no problem we'll help all right we'll help what are you guys offering like when do you guys start are you guys already started or are you guys last week because two games you guys probably have games coming up yeah we'll play uh we start off with Toronto this Sunday Labor Day weekend pretty cool is that a is that a league game yeah it's our first league game how many how many mls academies are in uh the Jags conference is that is that since is that Cincinnati Columbus yeah yeah and then is Minnesota we don't have Minnesota this year I don't I don't know we ch they changed the divisions around a little bit and it's terrible to me gonna have to cut this I don't know what do you what do you think about the homegrown staying birth year love it and then academy going don't school year or whatever it is now.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Don't really like it as far as I understood it like participation and then everything was off the charts and we decided to switch it up a little bit hopefully it goes great that it's out of my hands what can I do I understand like why they did the hybrid where they had homegrown do this and academy do this because they're competing with an another entity that's doing their own thing and US soccer said hey you guys just do whatever you want and it's like okay then we're gonna stay and there's some clubs that aren't a part of MLS homegrown and or MLS next homegrown and they're still staying full year because they believe in it because they believe in the whole the January to March you know what it looks like at the next level what it looks like in other sports you know the whole outliers thing Malcolm Gladwell and it's just I don't know like how much how much of that was putting out fires maybe not you specifically but I know this office sure had it had to deal with the birth year change.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean that was a I think some parents some people messaged me and they were like our club handled it terribly we are still so upset I'm like get over it once the first game starts nothing you're not even gonna worry about all the tryouts and the changes and everything like that.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was blown way out of proportion yeah it was I'm sure it was I'm sure it was and I know that you know this place put a ton of energy and thought and care into how to go about it as seamlessly as possible um you naturally have some some issues with it because it's gonna arbitrarily break up teams.
• 1:04:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah and I think when when you have to let players go from a from a team it's really difficult.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_03: They're human beings we're human beings it's hard one of the hardest parts of it I think is you're taking a part of their life and you're changing it and what I mean by that is they have friends.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_03: They have um like minded people that they're trying to achieve a goal with together and that goes for parents and players and everything in the pub I would assume that in a lot of instances some of those parents you know they spend so much time like we do on the road and traveling together yeah they become really close friends.
• 1:05:06
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's taken away and that can be traumatic in most instances a couple players that that happens to with this change that happens to all the players to some extent that aren't birthier still you know um so you're ripping them out of a comfort zone telling them it'll be fine and putting them into one that you'll you're saying is going to be just as good and that's hard to believe.
• 1:05:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I think it's natural human nature an extent to be pretty upset about it.
• 1:05:33
  SPEAKER_03: Especially and and maybe I'm wrong in this but I don't know exactly why it happened you mean both I mean I think there's something there was like oh kids want to play with their classmates and stuff like that.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's like okay where participation on the numbers that I've seen was off like record breaking so why are you like that's I think a lot of it is college coaches.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of it because they were sick of of the trap player and they if they were at a field they want to know that the this field is all sophomores i don't want to be looking at i don't want to be looking at a freshman because i can't talk to them yet and i think that drove some of it because they were sick of gap players and it's like well then just have b uh have uh graduating class but then there'll be a lot of reclassifying and people holding back kids on purpose well not now because you got the five and five rule now and so like there that's not gonna happen but then it would be nice if the NCAA would make up their mind and figure out what they want to do.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah but well a couple things there one I think if for a college coach it's too difficult to look at a birth date on a sheet and not understand what graduate talk to her yet or when you look at the profile sheet it says what graduation year they are and what class they are if that's too difficult you need to just be able to rock up and not have to decide that it's maybe that's too much I don't know uh are you trying I hope not um NCAA as much as I think look I think if if if the NCAA gets it right you could have college soccer be one of the best secondary leagues in the world think there's no question with sports science the the the the train contact if they go you know full year and stuff like that um the nutrition the the the sports science the physical development you can provide the weight rooms and stuff it's all world class if if you get that right I mean you can I mean it'll blow the doors off of second third divisions in Spain and Italy or wherever just in terms of resources is not even going to be close if if you think some second or third division team in Spain can compete with what the University of Michigan provides or Michigan State State or even Western or UD or any of them it's not even close I've worked with clubs that are in second third divisions in those countries I've been there I've seen it it is nothing it it you can't hold a candle to what those kids are provided here but you have to make some tweaks and I think the NCAA has some other things they're trying to figure out right now right um so I uh unfortunately I think the timing of that is gonna make it a little bit difficult you know and some of those decision makers have zero skin in the game when you when you went from coaching college and recruiting players in college was it was it the same was it did you do things the the same when you're recruiting a kid for Penn versus when you were trying to scout a kid for the union was there similarities or or was it just completely a different thermal look I think there's similarities no question about it no question about it I morphed changed grew with what I did and how I did my work but at its core it's the same yeah at its core it's the same um you know I think and and you could say the same thing about just in my time in college you know things you stress things you find the experience just how you do your job right so um yeah but I think overall it's incredibly similar.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah same thing for you know when you're doing it with the pros.
• 1:09:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: How okay so you guys are are you guys four days a week right now we are four days a week hour and a half per session and then and then travel and and how do you think do you have a style of play or do you have a or a particular type of player that you would like scout over the years like it was a Pete guy.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_03: Sure no absolutely I absolutely have that it had zero bearing on my job though I mean the I wasn't picking players for just myself right um but yeah I mean I have guys that I have things that I personally like yeah love it.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then maybe I push a little bit harder for that type of you know player right fits all the other things.
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah no it's not it was one of the things we talked about scouting you know with with people and stuff and you know John Shear called me one time uh and he was leading this scouting course and he's like what you know what do you think we should talk about I'm like I think the first thing you need to tell everybody in that room is that their opinion doesn't matter doesn't matter I mean I can tell you stories about guys that I really loved that I took and I thought would be fantastic and you know one person was like can't do this and then they've gone on to someplace else and knocked it out of the park and are killing it beyond the level that I was trying to bring them to right you know so um I think you have to put a lot of that stuff aside it's there it's always there but it's not about me and what I love.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_03: It's about whether this person, this player, this boy can be successful in where the environment that I might put him into.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Does that go for the style of play of Jags MLS next too yeah I think so you know I think our style of play is we want to be pretty nimble.
• 1:11:29
  SPEAKER_03: We want to be effective in almost any situation circumstance that's thrown our way we're not gonna die on any hill um because I I want our boys to be successful with wherever they go.
• 1:11:47
  SPEAKER_00: And they have to be versatile or they have to be adaptable.
• 1:11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Correct they can't just play one way because wherever they go that might be completely different and asked to do way different things and if they're not if they've never seen that situation before or that answer to that problem before they're gonna be a deer in headlights.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah so much of what we do is trying to to give them that to give them that to to make them good learners you know because I think if you're a good learner then you can you can you obviously you have to have a certain skill set in a variety of areas to be successful but if you're a good learner you're gonna you're gonna be okay and now you have options it's not just like oh he's this type of player that only fits there we still are always gonna have that I mean that's a little bit of human nature too but we spend so much time with off the ball because I think that translates in a lot of different places.
• 1:12:45
  SPEAKER_03: You know you talk about the expo um I was lucky enough to sit in with the Renee Muelstein did a little talk and and that guy worked with some pretty good players and some pretty good teams a little bit and you know his thing was like you can look at all the best teams in the world and they work hard you have to work hard soccer's a running game absolutely run work hard habits off the ball you know and then who they are comes out when they're on the ball so we try and take who they are as a person we'll try and change that well can we take who they are as a person that comes that personality that comes out when they're directly involved with the ball so can we take that and put it into a situation where it'll be affected and and help and then then who they are um in terms of how they go about their business like we can help that you know we can help them with those attributes um but you're not gonna take somebody who is incredibly reserved and just wants to fight do their job compete and you know win their duel you're not gonna take that person who fest their personality is probably maybe an outside back and make them a 10.
• 1:13:59
  SPEAKER_03: That's not that's not who they are.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:14:01
  SPEAKER_03: You know so that's one of the components that we talk about with players you know there's the the different pillars the psychological piece is huge huge I'm doing that kid a disservice no different than if he's it is that big personality vibrant always wants to be involved in everything and I force him to play right back and vibe it's very happy now I've done it in the past and what happens is they have to try to invert themselves and you know try and get like that's who they are so right um you can still make it work but you have to pay attention the game's not played by robots.
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_03: No they're human beings they have thoughts they have feelings they have emotions and that is going to come out in our game that's the beauty of our game is they I don't just you know this as well as anybody and anybody that listens knows like the beauty of our game is that who you are influences how you do the job.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah you know I don't sit there and call a play and they have to run it exactly like I've told them to that doesn't happen.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't even if we have some kind of set piece thing or whatever some point it's like yeah that kid just did it out of it.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: But I know clubs that tried to do that through their pattern play or their game model and they want every thing they think that everything is solved wherever the ball is on the field there should be a the an immediate answer and it should be the same every single time it's like the game isn't like that it's not baseball.
• 1:15:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's not baseball when you hit it to the shortstop and there's a man on first and we all know that that the ball's going to the second baseman to first we all know that.
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah hopefully hopefully no I look I think and that's I think what you're talking about and I think what we've gotten onto now for me and we talk about this a lot with our staff is that's the art now you're talking about the art right so I think there are there are things that we have to have whether you want to call them shapes or patterns or distances or blocks or whatever you can describe however you want we have to have some some of those peep those pieces but the art of coaching is how do I get that information into them give it to them so they can process it and apply it and still make it their own and make it we want to instill in them that they're the ones driving this thing.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_03: They're the ones who make the decisions now we can educate them and say okay when this is kind of the situation these should be some things that you should be looking for.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: But in the end it's their decision and I we're not big believers in yelling at kids after they uh do something with the ball because their picture even if they're 10 yards away on the field their picture is very different than what mine is standing off on this sideline without all of the pressures without the concentration on my touch and uh which hopefully isn't too much but without all of those factors they make a decision now if they've done something and we feel like they didn't have the information that's something we have to coach that's something we have to address that's something that needs to be remedied you if they have the information they've done what we've asked so they have the information and then they make a decision and it doesn't work that's okay because they've made a decision just as long as they're making decisions that's fine like I I you see this for me playing is decision making okay so goal kicks if you take a goal kick and you roll it to the center back every single time I don't think that's a decision if you take a goal kick and you drive it at the midline every single time I don't think that's a decision.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_03: If you play some short ones and then you try and drive one to a seven or eleven on an angle and it gets picked off it's a bad decision but it's a decision.
• 1:18:16
  SPEAKER_03: At least I know you're looking you're looking you got it wrong but you looked right if you just do this every time you're not you're not playing you're not making any decisions.
• 1:18:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're taking the decision out of the kick.
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right so for me that's not playing because it's a short pass on the ground that gets completed every time okay I personally don't find that to be playing the game yeah man do you you guys don't have like a game model that you no we I mean we do okay we do it is like a formation or like a standard formation and then like or like a I always I whenever I had teams I would always start in a like a 442 this is 12 years ago now and because and I just like that because like because because of the natural pairings that's the only reason why I would teach it because I think that if you can just understand natural pairings well then we could change to a 4141 pretty easily or a 4231 or whatever.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_03: And do you guys have like that set of like okay let's start the season what this is going to be our our focus here here and here and then if we have to adapt we'll adapt yeah um the really tricky question uh yeah because every team's different and every coach is different it is it is but we we want to work out of you know a basic setup a basic formation now you can tweak it quite a bit and the reason we use a like a a basic setup and a basic formation is it like we talked about earlier that safe space to operate out of so um if you want to tweak it the kids should be okay because they have a rough feeling of what they can fall back into.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_03: If that makes sense but if you were to just rock up to a field you might be like well that looks completely different than what that is over there.
• 1:20:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yes and no and there've been some tweaks into this one that in that moment that you watched looked completely different than this one over here.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_03: But at its core the fundamentals are are the same you know the the jumping off point is the same.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_03: Where they go after they jump can be a little bit different.
• 1:20:49
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah we I mean we have one you know again we focus a lot on um you know the intangibles the the the things that translate to wherever because if they go someplace else they might play a different shape it might play a different system so have we given them a skill set that's going to I don't want to be completely um like you said like stuck in this this is what it is no matter robotics yeah and trying to develop robots right and that's the other side of it too is sometimes you just like and this is earned but we'll have some players that will go you know almost on walkabout and it's it happens all the time with your quality players where you're like no no no no no great job amazing yep and that's the other thing that's like I'm not stupid like I'm or I'm not crazy like some of these guys some of these boys have way cooler ideas than I do man you know like that's just the truth.
• 1:21:48
  SPEAKER_03: So why would I stop there?
• 1:21:50
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly you know we talk about we made that cool run with that one group went to the semifinal and some of the guys were around and I think they were a little surprised at like our pregame talk which was like be a good teammate make sure you work run fight and just do cool shit man do cool shit it's a game it's entertainment.
• 1:22:10
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely do something cool man do something that makes people stand up and clap but what comes with that is failure.
• 1:22:18
  SPEAKER_00: If we're trying cool stuff sometimes it doesn't go right it's gonna it can backfire but it that's okay yeah and I feel like we have to learn from that it was like the not the wake up call but like it was it was them going out and playing union and just seeing hey there's levels to this and it's like being able to know your best attributes you have to fail.
• 1:22:45
  SPEAKER_00: You do have to you you you need to know that like I can't hit that ball I can't hit that ball yet or I can't I can't take on these guys yet you but you have to try you have to be able to like fail you have to be in an environment where you're allowed to fail because there's a lot of environments where the coach wants to be control every single aspect of the game and if anybody go steps out of line it's done it's it's it's wild to me and I watch it from afar and I just watching this and I was like I don't know if this is the best model to teach.
• 1:23:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah it's so it's a little bit of a conundrum that we have especially I think in this country and it's something that we have to figure out is because I'm a genuine believer that a lot of the best coaches in the world even not all nothing's written in stone but a lot of them have come from a development background where they were responsible for developing players I was actually just having this discussion with Larry Sonnohan the other day well last night.
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_03: Oh okay um we were talking about this and I he and I agree on this 100% like you have if you're responsible for developing players when they come in you give them more opportunities.
• 1:24:11
  SPEAKER_03: You're not afraid as much if they fail because you know it's a part of the process for them to improve.
• 1:24:17
  SPEAKER_03: If your only experience in coaching is wins and losses dictate whether or not I'm keep this job a lot of that goes out the window because the failure might lead to a loss.
• 1:24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly and you're willing to sacrifice a long-term win to prevent a short-term loss because if I don't do that I'll get fired but when you have that development background where some of that pressure has been taken off of you you have seen the long-term benefits of that now you might be in a situation you know if you if you're working in Brazil I think the average lifespan for a coach in Brazil is somewhere between three to six months like I mean you know like that's insane.
• 1:25:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah right so there's probably not a ton of that there which you might see some of that issue that they've had recently compared to what they used to be exactly where they lost their way.
• 1:25:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah in the last 10-15 years it's been like three six months where they're getting people and that's about it.
• 1:25:15
  SPEAKER_03: So um the point being like if you if you've seen that success and you know the benefits of it and you're that development guy you can translate that into successful firsting kind of stuff.
• 1:25:28
  SPEAKER_03: If you start there I don't like it's I don't know that you can go the other way and a big problem I think we have here is so much of it is because we don't have a ton of professional academies that are development minded not that some of them are not a lot of most if not all of them most of them are um but there's very few of them I mean in effectively a continent we have what 30 something that's it on an entire continent like there's that many size of Europe yeah there's that many in London exactly so finding that balance and and what's the easiest thing for people to understand wins and losses.
• 1:26:10
  SPEAKER_03: If this guy wins more he must be really good I'll go there I get it I told you earlier on we have to try and win every single game we play we just have philosophy that we won't sacrifice certain things to do it oh but it makes sense I get I get why people are doing it's the easiest thing to understand.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think that's gonna require the MLS expanding or do you think it's gonna be through maybe a second tier or a third tier or USL and MLS merging and then the USL clubs have to have their academy well in order to because how do we grow how do we have instead of 30 academies 50 academies is it putting power back into the state associations that's I mean I know it's crazy.
• 1:27:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah I don't know honestly I've no idea so I I don't know the answer because you said earlier it's also new yeah and we're still still growing this thing I mean you're flying this plane while we're building it right are things better right now than they were 20 years ago I would absolutely firmly believe the answer is yes.
• 1:27:35
  SPEAKER_03: Is it perfect?
• 1:27:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so but it's better and I think it's heading in the right direction still you know a lot of people are upset at the World Cup awesome.
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_03: Twenty years ago nobody would have cared 20 years ago this would have been a fantastic man we we got out of our group and won it people would have been doing backflips that's true so you know Are you happy with how it ended?
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Do I think they did above and beyond?
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 1:28:07
  SPEAKER_03: I think they did what was expected.
• 1:28:09
  SPEAKER_03: But that alone to me is a fantastic cycle through it.
• 1:28:12
  SPEAKER_03: If that was the expectation, we're doing okay.
• 1:28:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, anything less than that, I think it would have been a real a real failure.
• 1:28:20
  SPEAKER_03: It would have yep.
• 1:28:22
  SPEAKER_03: I I agree a hundred percent.
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_03: So what how do we uh look the more the better?
• 1:28:29
  SPEAKER_03: How they come about, I don't know.
• 1:28:30
  SPEAKER_03: I don't care.
• 1:28:31
  SPEAKER_03: As long as there's more people trying to develop players, I think we're gonna win.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_03: I think it has to get to a place where financially that makes sense.
• 1:28:39
  SPEAKER_03: That's the number one driver.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_03: It's all financial.
• 1:28:42
  SPEAKER_03: Everywhere in the world is financial.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_03: Nobody's doing it out of the kindness of their heart, right?
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_03: Brett for gut scrapped their program because they love the game.
• 1:28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they're making money off of it, whether it's a player that they sell that they make fun of from, or a player that they promote that they don't spend money on.
• 1:29:03
  SPEAKER_03: It's all financial.
• 1:29:05
  SPEAKER_03: So we have to get to a place in this country where the development, the the financial rewards for development are close to what they are for winning.
• 1:29:17
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:29:18
  SPEAKER_03: But until that, how that happens, god, I don't know.
• 1:29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Hopefully, there's a lot people a lot smarter than I am working on that problem.
• 1:29:24
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 1:29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, is it the merger?
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_03: Is it expansion?
• 1:29:29
  SPEAKER_03: Is it a complete rebrand of the system?
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I would be hesitant on that one, but whatever, you know, like sure, let's do it.
• 1:29:38
  SPEAKER_03: If it grows it, and more people are on the development side of it.
• 1:29:43
  SPEAKER_03: We have we just have to get a little bit closer to that.
• 1:29:46
  SPEAKER_03: Right now it's really skewed, right?
• 1:29:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:29:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, man, it's my pleasure.
• 1:29:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's just I think and it's like why you came home, right?
• 1:29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Michigan, obviously family, but Michigan.
• 1:30:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think uh when we look at the game 20 years ago to where it is now, I think we're a lot healthier than people want to give credit for.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that you're right.
• 1:30:20
  SPEAKER_00: We are flying this plane as we're building it.
• 1:30:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's a great line.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I love that because that's exactly what we're doing, and everybody's trying to change the blow up the system while we're still like building it.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we just got that wing on, let's not take it off.
• 1:30:36
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, yeah.
• 1:30:37
  SPEAKER_03: No, look, and uh it's is it there's a lot of issues.
• 1:30:44
  SPEAKER_03: I understand that there's a lot of issues, but if the people at the top making the decisions are coming at it, and I think they are for the most part from a genuine place of care and want of improvement and all that stuff, then I think we'll be okay, it's gonna take time, but I think you could argue right now that MLS in a lot of areas is already like a top 10 league in the world, right?
• 1:31:07
  SPEAKER_03: Attendance and salaries and transfers.
• 1:31:10
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, that's remarkable.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't have a league 30 years ago.
• 1:31:14
  SPEAKER_03: No, is it the EPL?
• 1:31:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, they also have a hundred-year head start, exactly.
• 1:31:20
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 1:31:21
  SPEAKER_03: You know, uh if I'm taking French classes, I don't compare myself to somebody who's grown up in Paris and lived their entire life there and only speaks French.
• 1:31:30
  SPEAKER_03: Like I can't that was I don't speak French as well as they do.
• 1:31:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I suck at it.
• 1:31:35
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I'm getting better relatively.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_03: I'm well, yeah, yeah.
• 1:31:38
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not French, right?
• 1:31:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not French, but I can't be French.
• 1:31:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, uh look, it's uh another stupid little analogy.
• 1:31:47
  SPEAKER_03: It's how I live my life, you know.
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's I think we're we're we're closer than we've ever been to where we want to be.
• 1:31:54
  SPEAKER_03: But we're not there, sure, of course.
• 1:31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Man, thank you so much.
• 1:32:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's my pleasure.
• 1:32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Awesome, and we're done.
• 1:32:03
  SPEAKER_00: All right, cool, man.
• 1:32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Dance brother.
• 1:32:05
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean, I hate soccer.