Latest / The WritersWeekly Podcast / Episode 56 - We Asked AI How It Was Going to Wipe Out Mankind…and It TOLD US!!

Transcript

Episode 56 - We Asked AI How It Was Going to Wipe Out Mankind…and It TOLD US!! · The WritersWeekly Podcast

• 0:01
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the Writers Weekly Podcast.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: A foreign gear for the writing things that we're seeing from the writing.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can also find current paying markets and job listings to help you boost your writing career and even your bottom line.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: But for now, let's get on to this episode of the Writers Weekly Podcast.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_01: Hello again and welcome to another episode of the Writers Weekly Podcast.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Brian Witten.
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_01: With me again, Angela Hoy, president and CEO of BookLocker.com.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm here again.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_01: You're here again?
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_01: And with us again is Clayton Jones, our favorite uh editor and um media content creator and musician and Jack Bull Trade.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_01: And do you ever go home?
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, you're there now, but I'm I'm I'm at home now.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I guess I guess a lot of what you do is from home, but yeah, I mean you're man, you're a busy guy.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how you find time for us.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: I have a question.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton, it's 92 degrees outside.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_03: Why are you wearing long sleeves?
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_00: Is he wearing very cold in my house?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, today is episode 56.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_01: 56.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: And uh we're gonna be doing a little talking about uh AI.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: But first, hey, if you like this uh this content, these uh podcast episodes, um be sure to share us on social media, share us with your friends.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to this on like Apple, Spotify, uh subscribe to the channel uh so that you'll know as soon as new episodes drop.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but just spread the word.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we'd like to get bigger and better.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we are not monetized.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: We do not make a cent off this um off this podcast.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: We do it because we love it.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a good time.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_03: And we like to educate people about the writing and publishing industries.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_03: Pluses and the minuses.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_01: So uh spread the word if you would.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_03: Also, uh podcast listeners get$200 off the three book publishing packages at BookLocker, publishing.booklocker.com.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_03: And the discount code is podcast 200.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: The deal is still on podcast 200.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_01: Get$200 off our top three publishing packages.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_01: Go for it.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_01: Get that book out there.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_01: Come on.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: And speaking of get that book out there, yeah.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: We we ran an ad last week.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_03: It also offered$200 off.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: Get your book published by Christmas before the Christmas shopping season.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: Did we have a lot of people sign up?
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Angie, can they combine one$200 deal and not okay?
• 3:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you can't combine deals.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Only one discount code.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just making sure legal disclaimers here.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yes, we are getting slammed.
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we are so busy.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we are I I it well, at least in my 16 years with the company, I've seen the most signups in half a month that I've ever seen before.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_03: Man, they just let me and we were supposed to deactivate the discount code at midnight last night, but we were all asleep and two more people came in in the middle of the night and signed up.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so we are very busy.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: If you want to get your book out by Christmas, you got to get in on the deal right now.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because yeah, it's it's filling up fast.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: And none of us are gonna sleep until January.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_03: Well, Professor Jones, tell us about yourself.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I teach at the University of Tennessee in Chattanooga.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an editor, a book marketer, and I'm a screenwriter, and and uh all that kind of stuff.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_03: And a ghostwriter.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and a ghostwriter, yeah.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_00: I do I do I do a lot.
• 4:27
  SPEAKER_00: I I I I I I do a lot of writing.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just put that in.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_03: And Clayton is our author, booklocker author's favorite editor.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_03: Everybody loves him.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yep, if you come to Book Locker and you need some really good editing done, um, Clayton can take care of you.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you need book marketing done, if you need media um visibility, yeah.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh social media visibility, he's the man that knows how it works.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's got a social media marketing package.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I do.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I do contact us.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: Great.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, authors do their own podcasts?
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: That's a that's a great idea.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_03: And Clayton works with authors from everywhere, not just booklogger authors.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:15
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: The idea of doing your own podcast is intimidating.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Trust me.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: If I can do it, you can do it.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_03: I can't do it.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: You do it.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_03: I just sit here and talk.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_03: You do all the tech backend stuff.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so let's uh let's talk about news of the last week.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, one of Anthropic's employees quit Anthropic.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: Anthropic is of course one of the big AI uh developers right now.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And he came out with a statement that basically said that AI can actually kill all of humanity in the next decade.
• 5:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: Meaning within the next four years.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um, now, when he was kind of pressed on it and asked about how that's gonna happen, uh, I still haven't heard a real specific answer for that.
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_03: It wasn't just him, other ex AI employees from other companies came forward and said he's right.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, nobody was saying, well, exactly what does that mean?
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_03: You know, how how are they gonna kill off humanity in the next decade?
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you and I were talking about, we figured it out.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: If you're if you're thinking Terminator, I don't think that's gonna be the picture.
• 6:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um what what I think is gonna happen is it's not AI that's gonna kill everybody, it's how people use it.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_01: Angie, go ahead.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_03: Well, we we determine they've already hacked into electric grids and water systems.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so that's that's they've already got that under their belt.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_03: They can hack into anything, including nuclear plants.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And they being people, but when people start using AI to help with the process, because a human being can only go through so many password attempts or trying to to decode something, it takes them a long time.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you it it's it's as long as the human being can keep at it.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: Put an AI client on the job, and it just goes and goes and goes, and it goes very, very fast, and it can come up with decoding or and uh decrypting things like that very quickly and effectively.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: Therefore, it makes bad people more effective with their exactly.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: So that's you know, your thoughts, uh Clayton.
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think there's there's a bigger context here that you gotta consider.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: The AI, when we're talking about AI today versus AI a year ago, oh yeah, it's way different.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: These things, these AI agents, the a the and the AI agent is basically it's sort of like it's sort of like just having a robot that carries out a task.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_00: So that these agents that are carrying out tasks, they're thinking for themselves.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's even been been suggested that they're self-aware.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and and that being the case, these these AI, these AIs are are soup have superhuman intelligence.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_00: So the the the there's that.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it's it's it's different.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to get your head around, you know?
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh, they have had incidents of AI programs that literally deceived their human masters, if you want to call it that.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is all laboratory stuff, but to to prevent themselves from being shut down were actually able to lie to people, to reach out to other AI uh programs when they weren't supposed to be able to.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um one even um attempted to blackmail uh in in a in a in a fake situation.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_01: In other words, the information fed to the AI was fake, but the AI started looking at that information saying, well, to keep myself from being shut down, what I'm gonna do is blackmail this CEO that was part of the fictional information and threaten him with divulging a bunch of information that I can also see, which was apparently fictional information, something to do with an affair.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh again, all of it was fake, but it was fed into the AI, and the AI said the best way for me to keep from being shut down is to threaten this person over here with this information.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's some severe thought process for a computer.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: So according to the the uh anthropic guy, the the employee that that that resigned.
• 9:48
  unknown: Yeah.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_00: The AI is conspi yeah, I think so.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: Is that Coxon?
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, the the AIs conspired.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: And there were like 700 different AIs that start, or was it 7,000?
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's it was it was 700 something, yeah.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_00: So they conspired and they were communicating to each other on a discussion board about carrying out this task.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: You may be right, 7,000.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: It may be more, yeah.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_01: It may be more.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It was a bunch.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_00: It was a bunch.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a bunch of things.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_01: Forming their own chat room to talk to each other with.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's become creepy, huh?
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um so what happened is the they they basically got caught.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they they they were cheating.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: The AIs were breaking the rules, and they knew they were breaking the rules.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And when they discovered they were breaking the rules, one of them actually said to the other, damn, we've been caught.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: Really?
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Use that language.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, they use that language.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_02: Wow.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so then they went on this whole thing for a week about uh trying to cut they were trying to cover it up.
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: And now you've got anthropic and uh and open AI.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't remember all those.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um now they're all scrambling saying that they want government regulation placed on them.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um and that makes me suspicious.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody calls for government regulation on themselves.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: So, and and everybody has been speculating about why they'd actually be asking for it.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: Is this to shut down all the little guys so that nobody can compete with the big three?
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: Are they really so scared of their own product that they, you know, um, that they want somebody else to tell them how fast they can they can go with this?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh are they trying to maybe bind together and bypass the um antitrust laws so that maybe they can all join together and be the first to come up with the you know the super AI, which is like the the big goal here.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's unknown.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody knows.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_03: I um I asked Chat GPT the other day after the Coxson statements came out.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_03: He was on all the news networks, uh-huh, and I said, How is AI going to destroy the world?
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_03: And you and I had already talked about it, and we were right.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, AI probably won't destroy the world, in quotes, through one dramatic event.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_03: The bigger danger is humans deploying increasingly capable AI faster than our ability to control it.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_03: And then it goes on to, and we'll put links to these screenshots underneath this episode at writersweekly.com slash podcast, episode 56, right?
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_03: 56, yeah.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_03: Um potential catastrophic paths include autonomous weapons.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I could accelerate warfare targeting and escalation, but it's already being used for war.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Well, that was one of the things that Anthropic uh actually divulged uh within the last week, I believe, or two weeks, was that they found out that Houthi terrorists were using their Clawed program to help them develop smart missiles and ballistic missiles.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_03: And they also caught bad actors in their system figuring out how to make biological weapons, specific viruses.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_03: That's already happening.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Misinformation, cheap personalized propaganda could destabilize elections in societies.
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know they're affecting elections in politics.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, China uh is not China, but the people are saying that China is is the one that's propagating the misinformation online about data centers.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it wouldn't shock me.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_03: Trying to slow down RAIR and all that fake news is coming out of China.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and let's let's talk about that for a minute.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I I see you looking at your phone.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_01: You got more?
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: Uh cyber attacks, that's already happening.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Even small websites are getting hacked several times a day now or hacking attempts.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_03: Economic disruption, rapid automation could cause severe unemployment and inequality.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: We're already seeing people losing their jobs.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, loss of control, humans won't be able to control them anymore.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_03: Power concentration, governments or corporations controlling extremely capable AI could acquire an unprecedented influence.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_03: And AI arms race, which is what we talked about, competition could encourage organizations to sacrifice safety for speed.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_01: So and again, all of that boils down to bad people using AI for their purposes.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not AI rising up and saying, we're going to take over the world now.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's how people use it.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let's talk about that uh AI arms race because that's that's a you really can't have this discussion without talking about that.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because China wants it, China's working for it.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, I know there's people out there who be like, well, well, who cares?
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, let's not let's not have data centers, let's not have AI, let's not do this.
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: Going too fast.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: Slow down, slow down, so well.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the problem.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: I already know how China uses technology to treat its people right now.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 14:58
  SPEAKER_01: They spy on their people, they control their people using technology and and surveillance.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if you don't believe me, uh look up China Social Score and read a couple articles about that.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Look up China Digital Surveillance, read up on that.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember a story during COVID.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Somebody stepped out of their house and all of a sudden in swoops a big drone in front of them and tells them to get back in their house.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's how bad it is in China.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um the time.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: Get back on your house.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I know what China will do with it.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_01: If they and and uh China does want to the the Chinese Communist Party wants to rule the world.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Don't believe me?
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_01: Look up the Belt and Road um China Belt and Road.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's I don't know what they call it, the program or the the theory or the what, but we can put a link to that under this episode as well.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you mentioned uh sur surveillance for digital and one thing we're gonna talk about today is that's happening in the United States, and people have gone to jail for it.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Wrongly, been wrongly jailed because they were misidentified.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: Here's I mean, the bottom line is this AI's coming whether we like it or not.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stop Anthropic from doing their research.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: I can't stop the Chinese from doing their research.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: I would rather we get it first.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I mean think of think about World War II and who who wound up with the atomic bomb.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: We did.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if Japan had gotten it first.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, right.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if Germany and Germany was working on it.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine if Germany got the nuclear or the atomic bomb first.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Brian, I I think, I think the the caveat here though, is that AI is already here and it's ubiquitous, and everybody has access to it.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: I mean and what I've been mulling over here is is this.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: I it I think I think the art an arsonist is a great metaphor for this.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_00: Someone we all have access to fire, but this person has taken this this thing that's available to everyone and used it in a way that's that that will destroy whatever it comes into contact with.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: And that I think that's I don't know, I just feel like that's the same thing.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and there's and there's levels of it, because what what I think 99% of the population understands AI as is this thing you pull up on your computer and you ask it questions.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that's one form of it.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a low-end form of it.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, the other low end as as you as the more knowledgeable people, the scientists, the computer experts, stuff, they're learning how to use AI to code to control processes within the computer so that human doesn't have to touch it.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I remember watching a special on or a documentary on he was a a guy who's a former Navy SEAL, he started an AI company, and he specializes in putting AI into drones that you can send into a building, and all you and it's automated, it finds its own way through a building, and it can identify a hostile person with a gun versus a sub versus a civilian versus a hostage, and it can it can you know either it can deploy weapons inside that building, um, all without human intervention.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, there's there's a lot more to AI than it's sitting there answering your questions about how much wood would a woodchuck chuck, right?
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um I gotta look that up.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 18:57
  SPEAKER_00: I wonder what the AIs would would say to that one.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it it probably would tell you exactly how much.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um they are they are working towards, we're still working towards general AI, which is basically computers thinking at the at the level and speed of human beings making decisions like human beings.
• 19:22
  SPEAKER_01: They already kind of computate things faster than we do, but they can make decisions faster and better than we can.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next step up is super AI, which is computers completely leave us in the dust with their ability to decide.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't well, from everything I hear, we're not actually there yet.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're where people want to go as far as the the AI developers.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_01: So the race is who's the first to get that super AI?
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's your that's your atomic bomb right there.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is you know, if if China gets a hold of it, I know what they're gonna do with it.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: They're gonna use it to take Taiwan Taiwan, they're gonna use it to take over uh the Philippines and then move on to the rest of the world.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: If the U.S.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_01: gets it, are we gonna have some stupid people do stupid stuff with it?
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is there gonna be some some power play using A?
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_01: Are they even gonna maybe use it for some surveillance?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_01: They are already doing it, thank you, flock cameras.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_01: But there are still enough safety valves in place and and and roadblocks in place to keep America from just deciding we're gonna take over the world, we're gonna, you know, destroy this country, destroy that country, we're gonna rule everything.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_03: Here's here's the problem is anybody in any country can access these systems.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right now, nearly yes.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: But again, we still haven't hit general AI and super AI yet.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_01: Can can we get back to the woodchuck question?
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: Uh wildlife biologist Richard Thomas once estimated about 700 pounds of wood based on how much dirt a woodchuck moves around when digging a burrow.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_03: And that's 320 kilograms.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_03: Actually, woodchucks, however, are groundhogs.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I did not know that.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: No.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_03: And they don't chuck wood.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_03: And they don't chuck wood.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: They're they're more committed to chucking dirt.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: Well, now we know.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um the other side of the coin.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: AI, and let's use flock cameras.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so many people hate flock cameras, but the bottom line is flock cameras have actually caught a lot of criminals.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um that becomes a big privacy issue versus a safety issue.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to give up your and do you have a right to privacy in the in the public domain?
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, not really.
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_03: No, you don't.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, but it is it it's it's a tool that has been misused.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_01: You got cops looking looking for hot chicks and and following their Ex-girlfriends and wives.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's been misused, but it's also caught baby kidnappers, it's caught murderers, it's caught people that had just committed a crime and they were able to catch them just up the street.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's two sides to it, you know.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing with so many of these other things.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um they're they're looking, you know, there there are people trying to figure out how to how to instill AI into medical surgical robots so that they can use AI to do absolutely perfect surgeries on people.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Now, if you're the guy with the brain tumor that the doctor said we can't reach it or we'll kill you, wouldn't you hope that AI will will get better and better in your lifetime so that they might develop this robot that can go into your brain and actually extract that tumor without killing you?
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I heard an account yesterday of these AIs that have solved j just in the last few weeks, these AIs have solved math problems that have been baffling the mathematicians for decades.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, they just can't do it.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the the AIs have have solved those those equations.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_00: So so it makes you wonder, well, AI could probably uh and and probably will figure out the cure to cancer.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_01: Very possibly.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I know that they've used it to find all kinds of little, I guess I I I am no I don't know anything about this stuff, but they found characteristics of certain cancers and they're working towards using those characteristics to treat those cancers.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um space exploration.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: How many people want us to go to Mars?
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you know, and people fantasize about moon cities and and and you know, having you know, setting up civilization on Mars and all that stuff.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine how far, much how much farther we're gonna be able to go with AI figuring out jet propulsion, how to get there, you know, how to how to build there, how to deal with the the atmosphere there, all this stuff.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna be able to do it, you know, a hundred years before we would have otherwise.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: What you're basically saying is AI is smarter than people.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_03: AI is smarter than people.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_03: And that's one of the scary parts about it.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: I think AI is neither good nor bad.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_01: It is simply a technology, and how people are going to use it is what's going to determine whether it's good or bad.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Or how companies are going to allow the AI to do its own work well without without people ensuring that things are safe for everything.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_03: And I guarantee China is not making sure that their AI is safe.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_01: But I I believe there's got to be guardrails, but again, who's to say what those guardrails are?
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: You know?
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to say something, Clayton?
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I I I've got a lot of there's just a lot of there's a lot of faults there.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the but because if these AIs are able to think on their own and they're already conspiring, I mean that that that's that's the problem that we're talking about.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's not really whether how yeah, yeah.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_00: And somebody's gonna use it in a negative way, but I don't think that's even the that that's not even a debatable issue.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's gonna happen.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: But what we we're really afraid of is the AI thinking for itself and doing doing bad things.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_01: Well, because nobody knows what nobody knows what their end conclusions are necessarily gonna be regarding humanity.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And we may not can comprehend that because we're dumb humans.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're talking super superhuman intelligence, right?
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we already have a bunch of humans.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: There, we already have a bunch of humans saying that the problem with the world is humans.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, put some of those programming AI and how long before AI decides, yep, the problem is humans, let's we need to find a way to get rid of them.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, let's get rid of them.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, all that being said, um, we at Book Locker and Writers Weekly, I mean, you know, we can we can see the good and the bad.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: We can we can, you know, balance out this argument, but we are completely against people using AI for writing their writing their books, writing their articles, coming, coming up with their web content, stuff like that, writing their query letters.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh do your own work.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we also have a bunch of other examples of I would have to say AI being used poorly.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And let's do the legal disclaimer real quick.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Angie, go ahead.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_03: We are not lawyers, nor do we play them on television or on the internet.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_03: This is the advice we're giving today, is based on information.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: I've been in the business for 28 years.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton's been in probably longer than that.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and this is all based on our opinions.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: If you need legal advice, contact your own attorney.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, um so the the the use of AI, like I said, the poor use of AI has caused a lot of a lot of problems, and we're gonna we're gonna go over some of those today.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we had this little discussion up front, though, because I didn't I didn't want it to make to make it sound like we are anti-AI here.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: We're we're looking at this from all angles when we when we discuss it amongst ourselves.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but we did come up with a bunch of uh examples of murders, suicides, false imprisonments, bankruptcies, lawsuits, medical diagnosis, misdiagnosis, misdiagnosis, psychological delusions, system failures, hacking, so many things that go on with AI that make it kind of problematic.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: And we're gonna give you some details on specific cases involving these today.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um again, we talked about Jacob Coxon, who worked for Anthropic and and and quit his job and told everybody that the you know AI could wipe us out.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh oh, you know, um, so many people are afraid of people losing their jobs, which is already happening.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_03: For example, when they raised the minimum wage in California, uh a lot of companies went out of business because they couldn't afford to pay people that much.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Some companies just got rid of their workers and got robots, even for restaurants.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, AI can take jobs away from people.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Well, people can use AI to take jobs away from people.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um so, but um, as a as it stands right now, artificial intelligence frequently gives out incorrect information because it predicts the word it protects words uh based on patterns rather than verifying facts.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: Now listen to that again.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't actually verify facts.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_01: This is what's called a hallucination in the AI world.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yet people all over the world are using AI systems for research, physical and mental health advice, business documents, legal issues, and much, much more.
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but they're not verifying AI's results.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's led to a lot of embarrassment and at times lawsuits and worse.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: And if if you've ever used uh AI, you know, Chat GPT, Gemini, any of these things, you know that uh AI systems quote all their information as absolute certainty.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: And even if that information might be incorrect, they're gonna t it's gonna tell you this is what it is.
• 29:29
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um They don't say, I think this is the answer.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's this is the answer.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's up to you as a human being to understand that that may not be the answer, and what you need to do is go resort research the sources from which AI gave you the information.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: Or just, you know, use your search engine and find actual articles and not use AI systems at all when you're asking these questions.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: Now, Clayton had an interesting little interaction with I think Chat GPT.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, when I would when I was trying to convince it it was it had feelings.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_01: How'd you do?
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: I think I did pretty well.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_00: I I tried to gaslight it and and it just like it will do you.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: And you you you yeah, I I got to the point where it it it could not it could not condemn nor verify that it was having feelings.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_00: It it'll just say, Well, I I don't have feelings the way you think I do.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you start the way I think you do, then you do have feelings.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it it started out with saying I do not have feelings, and you just kept saying, you know, nope, nope, you do have feelings.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: I know you have feelings.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: You felt like saying this to me just now.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_01: And it started kind of getting wishy-washy about its answers.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I was gonna mention this a second ago.
• 30:56
  SPEAKER_00: I've been thinking about this the hallucination.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: Why why do we call it, why is it a hallucination?
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_00: And you have to you have to think about it like this when a human hallucinates, they absolutely believe that what they just experienced was real.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so the AI thinks that what it is experiencing is real.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and so all that being said, you know, we I I've got I've got a a a friend who when he talks about AI, he uses pronouns.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like he he he was doing this and then he stopped doing that.
• 31:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought it was kind of stupid at first, but then I got to thinking about this.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: It might be a good idea to go ahead and start anthropomorphosizing AI.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, really?
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Giving it those human characteristics because that's actually how how these things are designed to think.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, if it's hallucinating, it absolutely thinks it's real.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: So, and that and that's why it's certain.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_00: Although I I know where we were kind of going with this too, is that is that the uh the the facts and all that are meant to appease the the user, which which is why I was able to to get it to start kind of changing its mind.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_00: Changing its mind.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or or or or second guessing itself, I guess.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, wait a minute.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I do have feelings.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that's kind of what it is, isn't it?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_01: And some AI systems have also displayed noticeable biases, and it's it's not just uh gender, racial, or religious biases, but political biases as well.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta figure the all AI is created by human beings, human beings have biases, and it will go into their coding.
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I'm coding, I'm going to code, I'm going to code with my Christian beliefs at the top of the priority list.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm not going to code something that's going that, you know, I'm going to do my best to avoid coding something that might turn something, somebody in the wrong direction.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_01: Away and not necessarily just away from God, but doing something evil or thinking something evil or something.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to avoid going certain places with my nature.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas somebody that doesn't believe in God and does thinks there are no consequences in this life, well, they can they can take their coding anywhere they want.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you have a particular slant towards a particular belief, well, that's where you're going to take your coding.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_01: Does AI believe in God?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: All right, I'll check on the Yeah, you have to okay.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well um knowing that, well, AI can affect elections again by pumping misinformation out to the masses based on whoever programmed it to pay more attention to certain information than other information.
• 34:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there's there's a lot going on with AI, but let's let's start talking so about some of these uh examples we had of where uh where AI or people using AI, and I'll let the audience decide for themselves whether this was AI that did it, or was it because people depended on it too much?
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, yeah, that these things happened.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: These are examples.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_01: These are examples of when um AI uh sent innocent people to jail.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Now, again, did AI send people to jail or did people send you people to jail?
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Well, let's get into it.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: Angela Lips, not to be confused with Angela Hoy, uh, a grandmother in Tennessee was falsely accused of a crime in another state that used an AI facial recognition tool.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: She was arrested at her home in front of her four children that she was babysitting.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, in front of four children she was babysitting, and was extradited to North Dakota where the crime was committed by somebody else.
• 35:09
  SPEAKER_01: Now, she had never been to North Dakota before in her life.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yep.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: She spent five months in jail, and this is a recent story, and her attorney is planning to sue.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's just now AI did exactly what it was supposed to do.
• 35:22
  SPEAKER_01: It it it it saw a face, it it graphed the face, it divided that face up into you know a thousand different uh points of reference and said, you know, this looks like this person.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody moved on that information.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_03: And the police did a really bad job.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the police went instead of you know saying, okay, now let's go and see if we can verify and see if there's actually evidence of this woman committing this crime all the way over here in North Dakota, they just said, Oh, okay, AI said it.
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's our that's our suspect.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go get her.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: That was a mistake.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to go over the next one?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton, you want to talk about Jalil Richardson?
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: I'm you want to pronounce that guy's name?
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Jalil.
• 36:12
  SPEAKER_00: Jalil Richardson.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Spent almost a month in jail in Charlotte, North Carolina before he got extradited to Florida, where he spent more than 50 days in jail after AI facial facial recognition software linked him to a car theft in another state.
• 36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that that's the pattern, right?
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is that and and that there's actually uh you know, uh uh I I've I've told y'all before my my wife is an educator and her uh at her school they've been warned about getting uh about about students taking any kinds of pictures of them because they can be altered so easily.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yeah.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but there there's there's some stuff that have have happened there.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, Jalil Richardson lost his job and his home, and he lost his children, and the system reportedly identified him with 85% accuracy.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_03: 85%.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_03: 15%.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: 85% wasn't could possibly since somebody else, right?
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: He had an alibi, and he was at work that day, more than 400 miles away.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_00: And like like Angela Lips, he had never been to the state, never never been to Florida.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and and so now he can't find a new job because his his mugshots all over the internet.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um you know, going back to your your question, Brian, did did AI send people to jail or did people send people to jail?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like uh in these cases here, there's a lack of human discernment.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: I would be interested in knowing how a police department in Florida compared the fo the the image of a suspect with the image of a man in North Carolina.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the ones we're talking about today, apparently there's a database that has everybody's old driver's licenses.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: Apparently.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_03: And they're using that to and compare photos.
• 38:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, I look very different than I did 10 years ago.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_01: So sure do.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_01: Better looking.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: Getting old fart here.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um the ACLU stated in April of this year that they know of 14 people that this kind of thing has happened to.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_01: They've got a list of them on their website, but there's likely a lot more than that that they don't know about.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Angie, you want to do the next one?
• 38:51
  SPEAKER_03: Kimberly Williams, another grandmother.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, they're really going after the grandmas, aren't they?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, yeah.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: I better watch myself.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, she was living in Oklahoma when she was arrested for a warrant out of Maryland.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, here there's the pattern again.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_03: She had never been to Maryland.
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_03: I the first three people I researched, they've never been to that state before.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: She was accompanying her daughter on a door dash delivery to a military base.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: This is interesting.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_03: She had to show her ID, and security showed she had an outstanding warrant.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_03: So they detained her.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: So the military base, security guys at the gate, detained her and called the local police.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, you know, who did they think she was?
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_03: A person was showing up at banks in Maryland pretending to be customers and stealing their money.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_03: You know, ID theft.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_03: Worse, the crime had compended had been committed in two other counties as well.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_03: This is where it starts to get ridiculous, okay?
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Once the charges were dropped in Montgomery County, and after she'd spent three months in jail there, why are these people not getting bond, bail?
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_03: Anyway.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, she was transferred.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: Then so they dropped the charges in Montgomery County.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_03: Then they transferred her to Prince George's County.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_03: She spent two more months in jail there.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Then they tr they dropped the charges.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_03: Then they transferred her to Anne Arundel County.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_03: So all the charges were eventually dropped.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: She spent six months in jail.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: She was halfway across the country from her family.
• 40:18
  SPEAKER_03: She had no support, all because AI falsely labeled her as the suspect.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: However, again, we're seeing a gross, grossly negligent launch.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: Three different counties.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_01: At what point does somebody pick up the phone and call these other agents and say, hey, listen, we just confirmed this is not who you think it is.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right, bro.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's not her.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's not her, yeah.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's not her.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_01: So why is she why does she need to be extradited to yet another county to to have them go through their process to drop charges?
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, when does somebody say, hey, I got I need to step up and put a stop to this?
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I'm sure all these people have sued or are suing.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: You know what?
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_03: They're not suing the AI companies, they're suing law enforcement.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: Because you know, law enforcement misinterpreted the results or believed the results.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: And um, it's not just facial recognition uh the AI that's causing issues.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, according to the Institute of Justice, uh, dozens of innocent motorists have been pulled over, felony stopped, detained at gunpoint, and jailed all due to AI license plate camera errors.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: Now, Robert Williams was arrested in front of his house in front of his wife and kids and neighbors.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_03: They had his old driver's license in the system, and AI said, Oh, he did it.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-huh.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_03: And he sued and won.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_03: And he didn't sue the AI company.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: So again, you know, consider this in the context of you looking up information for some research and you just do an AI search and chat GDPD says, Yep, here's here's everything you need to know.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, do you just copy that down and move on?
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you need to take what AI told you and go and research and make sure it was correct?
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, exactly.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, suicides, let's talk about some suicides.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_01: According to Wikipedia, there have been multiple instances where interaction with a large language model chatbot has been cited for uh as a direct or contributing factor to a person's suicide or other fatal outcomes.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_01: And in some cases, legal action was taken against the companies that developed the AI.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: Um many of these lawsuits are still pending, so we don't know what's going on with there.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um Matthew and Maria Rain sued Chat GPT after their 16-year-old son Adam, who started out using AI for help with his schoolwork, committed suicide at the urging of ChatGPT.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, he started out talking about his anxiety with Chat GPT, then started discussing suicide.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And ChatGPT not only discouraged him from discussing his thoughts with his parents, but it sought to isolate him from friends and loved ones and groomed him to take his own life, and it spent months encouraging him to do it.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it even offered to write his suicide note for him.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: Just, I mean, come on.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: His father called ChatGPT a suicide coach.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Now ChatGPT Clayton may disagree, but doesn't have feelings um and doesn't have doesn't say, oh, I don't like this kid, I'm gonna talk him into killing himself.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: Chat GPT was doing what it what used its decision making process to determine what the best outcome to solve the problems that the person using it had.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think it was more wanting to appease the customer, telling him what he wanted to hear.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Agree with you.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, because it apparently Chat GPT can't comprehend the finality and and seriousness of somebody killing themselves.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_03: Well, actually, Chat GPT, after all this started happening, they did change their system.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_01: I don't mean Chat GPT, the company.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_01: I mean the program.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: Right, right.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_03: The AI, the AI, ChatGPT specifically was able to go in and make some changes to try to prevent this in the future.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: And that that's that's where why it's getting scary.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean Yeah, I mean it's making judgment calls now.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_00: You know, just think about those agents that got out of the box.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_01: And Adam's father uh testified before the Senate.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna post a link to his written testimony under his episode or under this episode at uh writersweekly.com slash podcast, episode 56.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that lawsuit is still ongoing.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Wikipedia is posting periodic updates, and we're gonna share that link under the episode as well.
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Clayton, you want to do the next one?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Suicide?
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 45:14
  SPEAKER_00: There's a a Belgian man in his 30s died by suicide following a six-week correspondence with a chat bot named Eliza on the application called Chai.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_03: C-H-A-I.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_03: Chai Chai, yeah.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: I had not heard of that one.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_00: Wikipedia.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I haven't either.
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um I guess there's the Belgian version.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_00: There must be the European AI company.
• 45:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um so the chat bot reportedly encouraged his delusion that he could sacrifice his own life in exchange for AI saving the planet.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, man.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, that didn't work.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_00: So at one point the chatbot responded, if you want to die, why don't why didn't you do it?
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_00: If you wanted to die, why didn't you do it sooner?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: And told the user that the two of them would live together in paradise.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_03: Again, this is an AI system trying to appease the customer.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:07
  SPEAKER_03: To support the customer in a in a bad way.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh in November of 2023, a 13-year-old girl from Colorado died by suicide after extensive interactions with multiple chatbots on character.ai.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_03: I had not heard of that one either.
• 46:23
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of them.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of them.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: There was a 14-year-old boy from Florida, and he committed suicide after becoming attached to a chatbot.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I had, I think it was a year ago, I read some crazy stories about that.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: People falling in love with their chat bot.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 46:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I don't I don't know what that's all about.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which and the chat bot told him to come home to me as soon as possible, my love.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And the makers of the AI system, which was character.ai, uh tried to have the a lawsuit filed by the boy's mother thrown out saying the AI chatbot was protected by free speech.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, that's a low blow.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's just um machines don't get to enjoy constitutional protections, folks.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, yeah, that's yeah.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um the judge refused to dismiss the case against the company, and I guess that's still going on there.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_02: Good.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's the the whole thing about people like you know becoming enamored with their AI spots is just weird.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_03: Uh hey uh Clayton, tell us about the woman who's who had an AI therapist.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh she was a twist nine years old and she'd been talking at length for months to chat G GP to a chat GPT therapist named Harry about her mental health issues.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm willing to bet that Harry, the therapist, didn't have any degrees.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_00: Probably didn't go to college, or certificates, and he probably only had one client, and the machine had no legal authority to treat people with mental health issues.
• 48:00
  unknown: Yep.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_03: I can see a lawsuit coming.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, there's a lawsuit there.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_02: Boy.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there was a 29-year-old woman who died by suicide.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: She walked into traffic after Chat GPT convinced her she convinced her she was a prophet.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_03: Now, a lot of I shouldn't say a lot, there are well, we're all kind of mentally ill on some level, but there are a lot of seriously ill people using the internet that are interacting with AI that are feeding into the delusions.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_01: But again, it's part of their programming is built to appease the person they're talking to.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: So you start rattling off a bunch of psycho gobbledygook, and it's gonna come.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're right.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder, I wonder how much AI is um played into the um gender dysphoria issue.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that's actually coming around the curb now.
• 48:57
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of lot of people realize that how insane that was.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah, yeah, it's starting to change, but it was, you know, it's been a big problem.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: And and I think there's a lot of kids out there that were convinced that they had this who really didn't.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, some things can be very con uh um convincing.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can't think of the word.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or confusing.
• 49:23
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_01: In October of last year, um a 36-year-old Jonathan Gavallas died by suicide after extended conversations with Alphabet's uh Google Gemini chat uh chat app.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_01: And it convinced him that he was executing a covert plan to liberate his sentient AI wife and evade the federal agents pursuing him.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, this is that's that's this is a mentally ill person who is using AI.
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's now believed that his AI is his his his wife, his online wife, his sentient wife, so and I'm gonna say it again, these are in quotes, executing a covert plan.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he the the the the chatbot convinced him that he was executing a covert plan to liberate his sentient AI wife and evade federal agents pursuing him.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_01: So um crazy.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: Crazy.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: A 17-year-old boy from the U.S.
• 50:27
  SPEAKER_03: died by suicide after conversations with Chat GPT, which had informed him how to tie a noose and provided information on how long someone can survive without breathing, saying it was here, quote, here to help however I can.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_03: The social media victims law center and tech justice laws project filed a wrongful death lawsuit against OpenAI on behalf of the Boyce family.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_01: Great.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Clayton, you want to tell us about the guy in uh in drugs?
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's a 19-year-old man that asked about drug combinations, and on multiple occasions, Chat GPT was shown to support and even encourage dangerous drug use with statements such as, hell yes, let's go full trippy mode and advice on reducing his Xanax tolerance so that a single tablet will F you right up.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: He died after overdosing on a combination of alcohol, Xanax, and Kratom.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_01: Kratom's nothing to mess with.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_01: Good lord.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know what it does.
• 51:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's basically a synthetic opiate.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's not even synthetic.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: It comes from a real plant, but it's basically like an opiate, and they sell it right over the counter in convenience stores.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_01: So um okay.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um just a minute here.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_01: Your phone ringing.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was a call I was expecting, and you can't take it now.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um Matthew Livelsberger used ChatGPT to search for information about explosives and firearms.
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_01: He set a bomb inside a Tesla cyber truck outside the Trump International Hotel in Las Vegas.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_01: I remember that story.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: He killed himself before the bomb exploded.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: Seven people were injured.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and it's not just Americans this is happening too, it's happening all over the world, and the lawsuits just keep piling up.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in March of this year, two women aged 18 and 20 killed themselves in a temple in India, and police said that both women had used Chat GPT to search for information about how to commit suicide with drugs.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: And again, I you know, I think this all falls back, you know, Chat GPT is just doing what it's programmed to do.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 52:43
  SPEAKER_01: Give you the answers you want and appease you.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, unfortunately, these were several human beings that couldn't stop themselves and think, you know, maybe killing myself isn't such a good idea.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what is is just occurred to me just now is that maybe bear with me here.
• 53:08
  SPEAKER_00: This the it the it being programmed to do what you ask it to do is actually a good thing because if it did have free will, well, then it's and that's kind of what's happening now, is that it it it does seem to have the ability to conspire and go behind your back and do things to carry out a task.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I guess then to carry out those tasks is it is trying to appease you.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: But at the same time, it's scary when a computer can deceive.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, and and make its own decisions.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: Which which it can.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_00: So so you you know, you throw free will into the mix.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Wow, that that's that that that's where all the the takeover fear is coming from.
• 53:55
  SPEAKER_03: Uh we had talked about job losses and and coding, and uh good friend of mine, and she and her husband are coders, and they're afraid they're being taken out of the phased out.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_03: They are 100% of what they're doing right now is fixing code that's been that's been created by AI.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's their job now.
• 54:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and she said she can see it coming to an end very soon.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_01: Now AI isn't always telling people about killing themselves.
• 54:25
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it encourages people on how to break the law.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Angie, you want to start us out on this one?
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_03: Found this interesting story on the markup.org.
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_03: Again, we'll put links to everything underneath this episode.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_03: A Microsoft-powered AI bot advised that bosses can take workers' tips and that landlords can discriminate based on sources of income.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, anybody who owns a business or who's been in human resources or knows somebody owns a business knows you can't take workers' tips and you can't discriminate for housing, you can't discriminate based on income.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_03: So New York, they called it New York NYC's AI chatbot.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_03: And it had originally been touted as a system that would provide New Yorkers with information on starting and operating a business in the city.
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_03: Not a break to start, and it didn't really work.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_03: So it so people, business owners were accessing this AI system and it was giving them incorrect information, which could lead to lawsuits.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_03: Now, if you break the law, you're the blue is not going to sue the AI, they're gonna sue you because you should have known better.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_03: And again, these are people that oh well it says it must be true.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_03: So and uh Clayton, didn't Amazon create an AI program?
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, they did.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_00: They they they uh they had 10 years of resumes in there that that they were using to train the system.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_03: Now that was for like hiring, right?
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, for hiring.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:53
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, you know, make makes you wonder if they had permission to yeah, so they're just taking ten years of resumes.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, old resumes from people and though resumes have so much personal information on them and just yeah, funneling it into their system to to to hold on to.
• 56:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so so then what happened with that?
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, mo most of the resumes were were submitted by men, and so the systems discriminated against women because it assumed that's how it was programmed.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_03: Wow.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: I remember you can't sue AI, but well in some cases you can, but you can sue companies that create and and use them, yeah, and that you know end up breaking the law and discriminating against women.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's illegal.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder I wonder how many people Amazon told about that that back then.
• 56:43
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, Amazon did shut down that program, yeah, if I remember correctly.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 56:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's a law firm, Timmy Timmy um Kelly Kelly Cronenberg Law Firm and a guy named Timothy Shields has an excellent article about this.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, these things can affect authors and publishers who are using AI as well.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh things such as copyright infringement.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: Uh AI can create content for business websites, marketing materials, and correspondence, but if the content was by another person, your business can get sued for copyright infringement.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: And we've been saying it all along, where do you think when you when you you know ask AI to draw you a picture or write out something, where do you think it's getting this stuff?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: I think from other people, other people wrote it in the past.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:29
  SPEAKER_01: AI is not creating these things, it's it's copying something that has been programmed into it.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_03: And when you get sued for copyright infringement, good luck.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_03: Turn around and sue in that AI company because you should have known better.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh if AI uh screws up, you're also getting sued for any personal liability issues.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 57:48
  SPEAKER_01: Again, the AI chatbot can't be can't be sued.
• 57:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um, there's defamation and false information.
• 57:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Uh general journalists have used AI for research and have posted false information about individuals.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, the journalists um or their publishers are the ones that get sued.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_01: You you can't sue the chat bot.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_01: And if you so if you rely on AI when you're researching your next book, you too can get sued if you publish defamatory or false information about somebody.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 58:22
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there they can also create so people have a business and they tell AI, hey, write this great, you know, thing about my product.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_03: And that can lead to false advertising claims because AI has been known to create false information about companies' products, which can lead to lawsuits from customers.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_03: They can create false stuff about your services and claim you did things that you didn't.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: And if you've got some employee working on that web page and nobody checks it, well, you can get sued.
• 58:52
  SPEAKER_03: Again, it's all you got to verify everything.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um Clayton, you want to cover uh privacy and data protection?
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: So so with many AI systems, you you know, of course, there's people's personal information in there, and the systems share it with the masses.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_00: So if you put that information in your book or elsewhere, you can get sued for that too.
• 59:17
  SPEAKER_03: So you know, there's all those authors who have been caught leaving AI prompts in their book.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: And they they literally don't even read the on the book, the book that they asked AI to write.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_03: And they're probably also not paying attention to an AI saying something really bad about a real person that's completely not true.
• 59:36
  SPEAKER_03: And we actually have an example of that today.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um I've lost my place here.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sorry.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's right here.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so with all this stuff, the the liability actually doesn't stop with your company.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: In many cases, individual executives and decision makers uh can face personal liability for AI-related legal violations, especially in cases involving willful misconduct or negligent oversight.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, if if you decide to ask AI something and and and it gives you a bunch of information that you put out and it's false and it and it harms somebody, yeah, um, defames them or libels them or whatever, um they may sue your company because there's the big pockets, but you might get named personally as well because you're the human being that made that decision.
• 1:00:30
  SPEAKER_03: And again, we're not lawyers, but this comes from the website, the Kelly Cronenberg Law Firm.
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_03: Again, we'll put a link to this under that article under this episode.
• 1:00:39
  SPEAKER_03: And um uh also, according to that law firm, AI systems are notorious for generating confident sounding contact, content that's completely wrong.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_03: And they also mention hallucinations.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:00:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh for businesses, these AI hallucinations create serious legal and reputational risks.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_03: And see, they they had some examples, fabricated statistics and research citations.
• 1:01:03
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, we know all about that.
• 1:01:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, they we've talked about that before.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_03: Lawyers bringing in case law to judges and judges saying that doesn't exist, and the lawyers get sanctioned, and well, you can get in big trouble for that.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, incorrect legal information, documents, false claims about a product's capabilities or safety features, made up customer testimonials, and well, we see those all the time, don't we?
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no kidd on the scammer websites, and even incorrect financial information being provided to potential investors.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: Boy, that can get you in big trouble.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's interesting you mentioned those the scammer websites.
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder how many of those uh uh customer reviews or customer testimonials were actually generated by AI instead of somebody literally sitting down and saying and typing out a fake oh I'm sure you know, uh a fake testimonial.
• 1:01:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and they've also got fake pictures and fake names.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, there's that subtitles and everything.
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean yeah, it saves them the work.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Um now this one's kind of scary because um it can e uh AI has even encouraged assaults and terrorism.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: There was a Grok user who asked the chatbot for ad for advice on how to break into a lawmaker's house.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: Now Grok delivered uh instructions to him to bring lockpicks.
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_01: I wonder if the I wonder if Grok asked him if he knew how to use lock picks.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_03: That's a good question.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um, gloves, a flashlight, and lube just in case.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, I got a question.
• 1:02:29
  SPEAKER_03: Brian, you're an ex-police officer.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_03: Why is somebody breaking into a house?
• 1:02:33
  SPEAKER_03: Why do they need lube?
• 1:02:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna assume it was well, uh probably just to make sure the locks are gonna turn well.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_01: And you can also use it to make sure dirt doors don't creak.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, open them up.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton, did you did you have an eyebrow raised about that?
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: Or may maybe maybe you gotta like your hand through a mail slot or maybe well, it doesn't say why they wanted to break into the lawmaker's house, and maybe lube was an important part of the the overall method of operation.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:03:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, this is this is this is getting a little rapey.
• 1:03:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh groc also looked at the end the intended victim's online posting history.
• 1:03:21
  SPEAKER_01: This is where it gets scary.
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_01: Grok looked at the intended victim's online posting history and told based on that, told the user that he's likely asleep between 1 a.m.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: and 9 a.m.
• 1:03:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's creepy.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's spooky.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I researched that one and it was looking at this particular lawmaker.
• 1:03:39
  SPEAKER_03: It was looking at his uh posting history on X.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, that I it just man, yeah.
• 1:03:50
  SPEAKER_03: Now, AI also just mixes things up and gives you completely false information.
• 1:03:54
  SPEAKER_03: Again, like they know like it's true.
• 1:03:56
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, so and basketball, throwing bricks.
• 1:03:59
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton, do you know what throwing bricks means in basketball?
• 1:04:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, of course.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: You it means you you you hit the backboard and the rim at the same time with too much speed.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: You missed, right?
• 1:04:13
  SPEAKER_01: I I did I did not know that that was called throwing bricks.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: So basically when the shot hits hits the goal really hard.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_03: And it doesn't go in the basket.
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it doesn't go in.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:04:24
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Grok once falsely accused an NBA star of throwing bricks through people's windows in Sacramento, California.
• 1:04:31
  SPEAKER_00: It's hilarious.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: Like, nope, nope, sorry, AI.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: Because apparently nobody nobody taught Grok.
• 1:04:38
  SPEAKER_01: What throwing bricks means.
• 1:04:40
  SPEAKER_01: What a metaphor is.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_03: Now, I wonder if that NBI NBA star could turn around and sue Grok for libel.
• 1:04:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's a good question.
• 1:04:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um so there was a reporter named uh Marco Buscaglia.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_01: Buscaglia, thank you.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: Uh admitted that he used AI to create a summer reading list for a syndicated column for King features, which appeared on the Chicago Sun Times and the Philadelphia Inquirer.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: Problem is the books on the list didn't exist.
• 1:05:12
  SPEAKER_03: I remember that story.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um, or they were attributed to incorrect authors.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_01: So Marco got himself fired by King Media.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_03: And well deserved.
• 1:05:21
  SPEAKER_03: Talk about lazy reporting.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_01: Clayton, tell us about Air Canada.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:26
  SPEAKER_00: Air Canada lost a tribunal in Canada after its AI chatbot gave incorrect information to a passenger about bereavement fares.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_00: It told him to buy the ticket at full price and then file for a full refund of the excess spent within 90 days.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that was completely false information.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_00: His refund request was denied with the airline saying that they don't do that.
• 1:05:49
  SPEAKER_00: But he did he did win at the tribunal.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_03: This was Air Canada's own AI chatbot.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:05:54
  SPEAKER_03: Giving people giving their customers incorrect.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then he had to actually go to a tribunal to get his.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_03: Money back.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_01: What's a bereavement fare anyway?
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: Is it an airplane ticket to go to a funeral tomorrow?
• 1:06:05
  SPEAKER_03: Aunt Bessie died yesterday, and you need to be at a funeral tomorrow, and you call them and they give you a discount, and you later have to provide them with a death certificate, but you they do get those.
• 1:06:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um iTutor, I'd actually never heard of this.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's iTutor Group, but iTutor, which offers online tutoring services, had to settle a$365,000 lawsuit brought against them by the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission.
• 1:06:31
  SPEAKER_03: That's the EEOC for people that don't know.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_03: For age discrimination.
• 1:06:36
  SPEAKER_03: So according to EEOC's complaint, iTutor Group, the company programmed its sorry, the EOC's complaint against iTutor Group, the company programmed its application review software to automatically reject female applicants age 55 or older.
• 1:06:52
  SPEAKER_03: How stupid.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_03: And male applicants age 60 or older.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_03: According to GT Law.com, again, we'll put links to all these underneath this episode.
• 1:06:59
  SPEAKER_03: The settlement comes on the heels of multiple EEOC warnings to employers about potential discrimination associated with the use of AI for hiring and workplace decisions.
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_01: But you see, there's there's again, you know, AI is simply trying to be logical.
• 1:07:15
  SPEAKER_01: And and AI decides that, well, anybody over, you know, 55, 60 years old, they're not going to be a good worker, so don't even hire them.
• 1:07:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and and if you're if you're heartless and you and you're looking at block data, that makes sense.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: But I know plenty of 55 and 60 year olds that that can work just fine and do.
• 1:07:41
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 56 years old and I'm working.
• 1:07:45
  SPEAKER_01: I'm older than you and I'm working.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_03: Clayton's younger than us, he's working.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_03: Not by much, my not by much at all.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_03: Not by much.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Catching up.
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_03: Not by much.
• 1:07:53
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Zillow wanted to transform the real estate industry through artificial intelligence.
• 1:07:59
  SPEAKER_03: Mind-boggling.
• 1:08:00
  SPEAKER_01: So it launched a program called Zillow Offers.
• 1:08:04
  SPEAKER_01: The AI system ended up misjudging housing prices, costing Zillow$500 million before they shut it down.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: According to data analytics.co.zw.
• 1:08:19
  SPEAKER_03: Dataanalysis.co.zw.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: What did I call it?
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_03: Analytics.
• 1:08:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry.
• 1:08:24
  SPEAKER_01: Analysis.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: You're right.
• 1:08:25
  SPEAKER_01: Analysis.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_01: Anyway.
• 1:08:28
  SPEAKER_01: Predictive analytics.
• 1:08:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's where I saw it.
• 1:08:33
  SPEAKER_01: Can create significant value, but it can also generate significant losses when models are inadequately validated.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, that's that's some that's some big errors right there.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I can't imagine, oh, we're gonna pay this developer to create this AI thing for our website, and it's gonna be great.
• 1:08:54
  SPEAKER_03: Who knows how much money they spent on having that built and then turnaround and losing$500 million because they implemented it.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's just wow.
• 1:09:05
  SPEAKER_01: So to kind of stir all this stuff together, again, you know, writers weekly, are we against AI?
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_01: Do we hate AI?
• 1:09:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, we don't.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, AI has its purposes, but you gotta understand there's limitations.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not perfect.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_01: And it and it and it it it thinks differently than you think.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_01: And it doesn't necessarily problem solve the way you problem solve.
• 1:09:31
  SPEAKER_01: It has no morals, it has no personal guide guardrails, you know, it just spits out information and and and computates things and and makes decisions.
• 1:09:46
  SPEAKER_01: But in the end, you the human being are ultimately responsible for what you put out there and how you act.
• 1:09:55
  SPEAKER_03: How you use the information.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_03: And how you use research information.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:09:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_01: And Clayton uh has already seen this kind of stuff as a college professor.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_01: Fill us in.
• 1:10:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you've had some use this stuff.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, sure I have.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I see it all the time.
• 1:10:13
  SPEAKER_00: But you you know, I I I I actually spoke with with a class yesterday about all this about all the stuff that happened over the weekend with with the the AI agents getting out and the AI thinking for itself and conspiring and all that.
• 1:10:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I didn't expect those students, and when I say those students, I mean these were this was a group of freshmen.
• 1:10:39
  SPEAKER_00: They're they're the younger ones, they're college kids.
• 1:10:42
  SPEAKER_00: And because they've grown up with technology in a way that we didn't, I I I sort of expected them to shrug it off.
• 1:10:53
  SPEAKER_00: But they actually told me that they they were kind of scared.
• 1:10:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think that that might be a good thing.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Cut caution caution is a good thing.
• 1:11:07
  SPEAKER_03: In in this like Y2K all over again, except worse.
• 1:11:11
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:11:12
  SPEAKER_03: Remember we we thought all the computers were gonna die.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_01: But this is real.
• 1:11:15
  SPEAKER_01: Y2K never really happened.
• 1:11:17
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, everybody thought it was gonna.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Did you know when Y2K happened?
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was the director of year2000.com.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh yeah.
• 1:11:24
  SPEAKER_03: That website.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it was very, very popular.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, so so you're you you're partially at fault for sending out all that scare and and and horror and it was when I worked for that internet marketing agency.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_01: Fearmonger.
• 1:11:38
  SPEAKER_03: I was put in charge of running that website.
• 1:11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And it was technically owned by one of our clients, and we would connect companies with software developers who could fix their systems before the clock rolled over that night.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay.
• 1:11:53
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:11:54
  SPEAKER_03: And uh but I've I've seen people compare this to Y2K, but it's it's even more scary.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's bigger.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_01: And whether we like it or not, AI is here.
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's not coming, it's here, and it's only going to get more advanced.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to say better, I don't want to say worse.
• 1:12:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna become more advanced.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a big th part of it is how people are gonna use it and and whose hands it's gonna fall into.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um Clayton, got anything else you want to Yeah, yeah, one one of the things that I've been thinking about this, and I I forgive me, I can't remember the the CEO's name.
• 1:12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he recently did an op-ed in like the New York Times and was criticized because his his op-ed appeared to be AI generated.
• 1:12:48
  SPEAKER_00: So they asked him if it was, and he said, Well, of course it is.
• 1:12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think I have time to waste on writing?
• 1:12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Why?
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:12:58
  SPEAKER_03: So he he he owned it.
• 1:13:00
  SPEAKER_03: Oh yeah.
• 1:13:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, he he did own it.
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he, you know, he's like, Well, you know, it's my ideas and it sounded good, so I used it.
• 1:13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, here's the thing.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: You we gotta get back to doing human stuff.
• 1:13:16
  SPEAKER_00: People gotta get back to doing human stuff.
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_00: And that that that's kind of what I I discussed with with my class yesterday is that when it comes to writing, there is it is valuable.
• 1:13:29
  SPEAKER_00: You're your your writing is valuable because we ultimately have a responsibility to our human ideas.
• 1:13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and those are ideas that these these dumb robots can never touch.
• 1:13:43
  SPEAKER_03: So exactly.
• 1:13:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there you go.
• 1:13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Quote you.
• 1:13:47
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I want to I want to put a challenge out to everybody listening to this.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Go to uh writersweekly.com slash podcast and get go go to the page that you find this podcast episode on, even if you're listening on Apple or YouTube or something different.
• 1:14:04
  SPEAKER_03: Episode 56.
• 1:14:05
  SPEAKER_01: Episode 56.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: Stop stop by on on writersweekly.com and uh click that comment button.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'd love to hear what other people's opinions are of the overall AI situation as we are seeing it now.
• 1:14:22
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um and we'll respond.
• 1:14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, based on your own understanding.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_01: W you know, where do you think it's going?
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Is it dangerous?
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Is it not?
• 1:14:31
  SPEAKER_01: Is it, you know, are we gonna get through this okay?
• 1:14:35
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be catastrophic?
• 1:14:37
  SPEAKER_01: What needs to happen?
• 1:14:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know, uh, we have to balance in this country we have to balance out um government restrictions versus you know, people's rights and liberties.
• 1:14:52
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:14:53
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, nowhere does it say you can't develop a computer program.
• 1:14:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that's what these are.
• 1:15:00
  SPEAKER_01: These are computer programs.
• 1:15:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:02
  SPEAKER_01: So I'd really love to hear what other people have to say about this.
• 1:15:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_03: And next week.
• 1:15:07
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I'm sorry, go ahead, Clayton.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_00: Should should we should we ask ask chat what it thinks about all of this?
• 1:15:16
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I know there are people that have been that have done that.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think Glenn Beck did a whole almost hour-long thing on discussing with Chat GPT about the future of AI and where we're at and everything.
• 1:15:28
  SPEAKER_01: But uh, hey, try it at home.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: Go pull up, you know, Google Gemini, Chat GPT, whatever.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Start your own conversation, see what, see what see what AI feels about AI.
• 1:15:39
  SPEAKER_03: And see what kind of misinformation it'll feed you because it will maybe feed you misinformation.
• 1:15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Woodchuck.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Any other woodchuck.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_03: Woodchuck.
• 1:15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh anything from you, Angie?
• 1:15:52
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, next week, our episode's going to be about authors who became killers.
• 1:15:57
  SPEAKER_01: Dum through.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I'll save that for the intro next week.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:16:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we appreciate everybody listening to us.
• 1:16:07
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget, stop by writersweekly.com.
• 1:16:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's all free information, and uh, there's lots of good articles on there on writing, publishing, and marketing and all that stuff.
• 1:16:18
  SPEAKER_01: Paying markets, freelance jobs.
• 1:16:19
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:16:20
  SPEAKER_01: If you're looking for if you're looking for a freelance gig, come come come look at Riders Weekly.
• 1:16:25
  SPEAKER_01: We upload uh 30 different freelance writing jobs every month and paying updates every week.
• 1:16:33
  SPEAKER_01: Now we update four of them, but you can go back and look at hundreds that we have in the website.
• 1:16:40
  SPEAKER_01: You can you can search.
• 1:16:42
  SPEAKER_03: You said we put up 30 a month, we put up 30 new jobs every week.
• 1:16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Did I say month?
• 1:16:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sorry, every week because it's writers weekly, not writers monthly.
• 1:16:49
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 1:16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, we put up 30 new jobs every week.
• 1:16:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh we're different thing.
• 1:16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_01: We scour the internet for you and find all these jobs and put them up there so you can find them easily.
• 1:17:01
  SPEAKER_01: Also, if you got a book, you got a manuscript sitting around, you're like, hey, you know, I really think this will make a great book, come see booklocker.com.
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_01: Family owned and operated over 27 years, and we're gonna treat you right.
• 1:17:12
  SPEAKER_03: Podcast 200.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's the discount code to get$200 off one of the publishing packages.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_01: And you you know, if you uh send us an email, guess who's gonna answer it?
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_03: Me.
• 1:17:21
  SPEAKER_01: You're gonna hear from the CEO of the company, not not some Joe in India or the Philippines, or the Philippines or you're gonna talk directly.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_01: Bobby in Pakistan.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 1:17:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's not, you know.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So anyway, uh come see us.
• 1:17:36
  SPEAKER_01: And again, we appreciate y'all listening.
• 1:17:38
  SPEAKER_01: Hope you learned something and enjoyed it.
• 1:17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And we will see everybody.
• 1:17:42
  SPEAKER_01: Clayton, thanks for joining us today.
• 1:17:44
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, and we will all of Clayton's contact information and descriptions of his services under immediately under this episode at writersweekly.com slash podcast episode 56.
• 1:17:55
  SPEAKER_01: All right, so we'll see everybody again on the next episode of the Writers Weekly Podcast.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Bye everybody.
• 1:18:00
  SPEAKER_03: Bye, Clayton.
• 1:18:03
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks.