Latest / Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast / Inside the Tyler Skaggs v Angels trial; Sam Blum joins

Transcript

Inside the Tyler Skaggs v Angels trial; Sam Blum joins · Halo Territory: A Los Angeles Angels Podcast

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Well, Hello Angels fans, and welcome back to Halo Territory,
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: where we'll be discussing all things Angels. On today's show,
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about the Tyler Skaggs wrongful
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: death suit against the Angels. Joining me is my co
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: host Mark Trumbo. Welcome back. And we're also joined by
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: Sam Blum, the fine young writer for The Athletic who
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: will be a regular contributor to the podcast. And as
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: many of you know, Sam covered this trial for a
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: solid three months in the Santa Ana Courthouse. Sam, welcome
• 0:36
  Speaker 1: to the show.
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: Thanks for having me, and yeah, congrats on this new
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: venture for you guys. I think be really cool for
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: ancheles Man. So yeah, I'm excited to chip in when
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: I can thank you.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: Well, we all know Tyler Skaggs died in a Texas
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: hotel room on July first, twenty nineteen. I was with
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: the Angels in Texas when that happened, and that day,
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: along with the day Nick Adenhart died, we're two of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: the darkest days I've had on this feat and very
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: challenging just covering that whole story in the wake of
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: Tyler's death. But you know, we had a three month trial,
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: tons of testimony, often contentious at times, and right at
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: the end of three months, literally hours before a verdict
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: was going to come down and favor of the Skagg's family,
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: we had a settlement. First of all, say that what
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: was it like being inside the courtroom for for almost
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: three months?
• 1:32
  Speaker 3: Is this your experience?
• 1:33
  Speaker 2: You know, it's like in some ways, you know, when
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: you kind of subtract this actual subject matter and the
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: reason you're there for me, it was like it was
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: almost exciting to be a part of it because it's
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: it feels like it's it's really important. Mean, it's really
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: important stuff. I mean, you know, you're you are, you know,
• 1:51
  Speaker 2: navigating a very very delicate situation. You're also you know,
• 1:54
  Speaker 2: trying to be fair. You're trying to you know, not
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: take a pre to one side or the other. But
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: you're also kind of like a juror in some ways
• 2:03
  Speaker 2: where you're sitting and listening to everything and you're making
• 2:05
  Speaker 2: your own judgments about what you're hearing. So it's kind
• 2:08
  Speaker 2: of that balance. And so, you know, sitting and hearing
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: about the details that led up to Tyler's death.
• 2:15
  Speaker 3: It was it was difficult because it's.
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: You realize how many chances along the way this organization
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: maybe had to to stop this, and you know how
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: many chances maybe Tyler had along the way too, So it's.
• 2:27
  Speaker 3: There's nuance to it.
• 2:28
  Speaker 2: But you know, my biggest takeaway was this was just
• 2:31
  Speaker 2: a failure by the organization time and again to to
• 2:37
  Speaker 2: you know, put people in the position where this eventually
• 2:40
  Speaker 2: did happen. And you know, ultimately, when there's a settlement,
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: there's no liability. The Angels won't face liability for this.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: That was because they settled. I think they recognized they
• 2:50
  Speaker 2: were about to lose. But you know, the jury came out,
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: the jurors came out and said that they would have
• 2:56
  Speaker 2: found for the Skag's family. I think, you know, maybe
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: not to the extent that it seemed like right before
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: they did settle, But you know, a judgment is a judgment,
• 3:06
  Speaker 2: and I think was going to you know, go against
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: the Angels, and you know, having sat there for three months,
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: I felt like that that made sense to me.
• 3:14
  Speaker 4: Now.
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: Eric Kay, the former media relations official with the Angels,
• 3:17
  Speaker 1: was sentenced to twenty two years in federal prison for
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: providing the ventno lace pill that sure is ruled in
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: Texas that killed Tyler Skaggs. What did this case boil
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: down to? Sam?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: I mean it just, I mean it came down to
• 3:34
  Speaker 2: who do you think was that fault here? Right? Is
• 3:36
  Speaker 2: it Tyler Skaggs for putting a pill in his body?
• 3:40
  Speaker 2: Is it Eric Kay for providing that pill? Is it
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: the Angels for employing Eric Kay time and again through
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: numerous examples of wildly unprofessional behavior, and you know, kind
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: of never really following their own policies. And I think
• 3:56
  Speaker 2: that was it kind of depends on which side.
• 3:58
  Speaker 3: You look at.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: I mean, the Angels spent all this time trying to
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: denigrate the character of Tyler Skeggs, paint him as a
• 4:04
  Speaker 2: drug abuser. You know, he was with him and his
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: wife as drug dealers. I mean, this is which were
• 4:11
  Speaker 2: not just it wasn't really based in reality. As far
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: as my opinion, having sat there for it, I feel
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: a bit more comfortable sharing.
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: My opinion now that it's Oh.
• 4:19
  Speaker 2: But you know that that's really what it came down to,
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: is which version of events do you believe? And also
• 4:26
  Speaker 2: which who Who's who's ultimately responsible for this? And I
• 4:30
  Speaker 2: think there was responsibility to go around, you know, ultimately
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: the jurors would have had to come in decide what
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: percentage of fault each of those three entities were at.
• 4:39
  Speaker 2: So but you know, it just you know, in the story,
• 4:43
  Speaker 2: I think it transcends, you know, one player and one
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: team in one one situation. To me, it's like, you know,
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: you're looking at at real issues that are facing Americans
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: across the country, and you know, real things that come up.
• 4:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, fentanyl at the time especially, you know twenty
• 4:57
  Speaker 2: nineteen was just becoming something that was wide recognized is
• 5:00
  Speaker 2: very dangerous. You're also talking about things like federal mandatory minimums.
• 5:04
  Speaker 2: You mentioned Eric Kay's in prison for twenty two years.
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: For as poorly as I feel like he.
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: Handled things and as the Angels handled things, twenty two
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: years was a very long time to send him in
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: prison for an accident and for an addict who ultimately
• 5:18
  Speaker 2: was probably operating within the scope of his addiction. So
• 5:23
  Speaker 2: it's really tough to kind of ultimately put down a
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: single judgment on one person or one thing. But you know,
• 5:29
  Speaker 2: there's just a lot of mistakes made by a lot
• 5:31
  Speaker 2: of people over the course of a long time. And
• 5:33
  Speaker 2: you know, I think this trial painted kind of how
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: this all happened in a way that you know, his
• 5:39
  Speaker 2: criminal trial just didn't.
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: Our listeners may not know, but Mark Trumpell was actually
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: traded for Tyler Skaggs in the three TM deal before
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: the twenty fourteen seasons, so he never played with Tyler
• 5:52
  Speaker 1: at the big league level. But Mark, when you when
• 5:56
  Speaker 1: you when you see what's going on in this trial
• 5:59
  Speaker 1: from afar, when you've been in that clubhouse for as
• 6:02
  Speaker 1: long as you were, I don't know if there was
• 6:05
  Speaker 1: any indications of the kind of culture where players are
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: trading pills and you know, dealing with pain management and
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: trying to get through injuries. Did you see anything like
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: that when you were playing with the Angels around the league?
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: Was there an awareness among players that you know, these
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: types of things are going on.
• 6:26
  Speaker 4: Well, in my experience there, no, I didn't see anybody
• 6:30
  Speaker 4: trading medications, especially prescription medications. Well, you know, I started
• 6:37
  Speaker 4: to read about the trial and some of the names involved,
• 6:42
  Speaker 4: and it really was a foreign thing to me because
• 6:47
  Speaker 4: you know, someone who played you know, parts ten years
• 6:51
  Speaker 4: or well ten years. It's it's strange that I wouldn't
• 6:55
  Speaker 4: have noticed this going on. But I think, you know,
• 7:00
  Speaker 4: probably like in real life, not everyone wants to share
• 7:04
  Speaker 4: some of their habits that they'd rather you know, keep secret,
• 7:08
  Speaker 4: quite frankly, and I think that that's kind of one
• 7:10
  Speaker 4: of the what happened here. I don't think that there's
• 7:14
  Speaker 4: any cool factor or otherwise where guys are going around
• 7:19
  Speaker 4: bragging about, hey, you know, look at these, you know,
• 7:22
  Speaker 4: opioid based painkillers that I got. You know, I'll give
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: you this for this, and and that's not the way
• 7:28
  Speaker 4: it is at all, you know, with the Angels. As
• 7:31
  Speaker 4: a young player there, I think, you know, every team
• 7:35
  Speaker 4: you go to, I played for four, you're going to
• 7:37
  Speaker 4: have athletic trainers that you know, you get to know.
• 7:41
  Speaker 4: And then there's team doctors that are part of it too.
• 7:44
  Speaker 4: And some teams are on the stricter side of i'm
• 7:51
  Speaker 4: gonna say, doling out medication. But I never saw a
• 7:55
  Speaker 4: single team that was reckless or totally unprofessional. And I
• 8:00
  Speaker 4: think one of the conflicts are One of the hard
• 8:02
  Speaker 4: things for me is, you know, all parties involved, it's
• 8:04
  Speaker 4: a terrible tragedy, but I know Eric very well, you know,
• 8:11
  Speaker 4: and and that it's a very tough thing because he
• 8:14
  Speaker 4: treated me well. I found him to be professional, you know,
• 8:18
  Speaker 4: in the time I was there, which was up until
• 8:20
  Speaker 4: twenty thirteen, and then reading about some of the we're
• 8:24
  Speaker 4: going to call it horseplay stuff that transpired later, I
• 8:28
  Speaker 4: never saw anything like that. You know. It seemed like,
• 8:31
  Speaker 4: like Sam said, I think things had really kind of
• 8:33
  Speaker 4: spiraled on him, and you know, he had clearly lost
• 8:37
  Speaker 4: his way and the pranks and stuff. I don't know,
• 8:41
  Speaker 4: that was tough to digest.
• 8:43
  Speaker 2: And yeah, because it's like, you know, you don't see
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: like I wasn't sure if that was like you know,
• 8:49
  Speaker 2: you say horseplay, like it almost like that was the
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: way they described it. But I don't know if that's
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: the kind of thing that happens in big the club
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: as is beyond you know, stuff that comes out in court,
• 8:57
  Speaker 2: you know filings that we learn about it so many
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: you know, we've learned about so many secrets over the.
• 9:02
  Speaker 3: Course of this, you know, three months out.
• 9:04
  Speaker 2: I'm sure if that's the kind of thing that is
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: happening in twenty one other clubhouses or if it's like
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: a no.
• 9:10
  Speaker 4: To me, honest, it was incredibly juvenile. I mean, it
• 9:15
  Speaker 4: sounded like some college stuff and some of the names involved.
• 9:18
  Speaker 4: Quite frankly, I was I was caught off guard. I
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: didn't expect that, and you know, I'm not here to
• 9:24
  Speaker 4: put anybody on blast. I think that at the time,
• 9:28
  Speaker 4: you know, maybe maybe it just seemed like harmless fun
• 9:31
  Speaker 4: horse plays an interesting word, but you know, looking back,
• 9:35
  Speaker 4: I don't think any of it looks all that fun.
• 9:38
  Speaker 4: And it clearly looks like somebody, you know, Eric that
• 9:43
  Speaker 4: was all over the place. You know, my time with him,
• 9:48
  Speaker 4: he was professional and you know, sure he had and
• 9:51
  Speaker 4: I think it's been covered pretty accurately. He had some
• 9:54
  Speaker 4: good days, most good days, i'd say, and and some
• 9:57
  Speaker 4: occasional ones that you know, he seemed a little bit moody.
• 9:59
  Speaker 4: But I'm sure we've all met plenty of people in
• 10:03
  Speaker 4: real life that might fit that mold. We all might
• 10:05
  Speaker 4: fit that mold at times. But I never saw a
• 10:08
  Speaker 4: guy that was, you know, high on the job or
• 10:11
  Speaker 4: unable to perform. So my experience is very different than
• 10:16
  Speaker 4: you know, what seems like game later.
• 10:19
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and that was twenty thirteen was like kind of
• 10:21
  Speaker 2: the first reported incident with him, and obviously just got
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: worse after that.
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: You know that at least that was what came out
• 10:27
  Speaker 3: in the trial.
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: Right. The twenty thirteen was in August, was his first
• 10:30
  Speaker 2: time where he kind of expressed that he had had
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: an issue. But you know, it's it's very very when
• 10:38
  Speaker 2: you're not really when you're really kind of hearing the
• 10:40
  Speaker 2: versions in court, it's it's hard to know what's one
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: hundred percent true, but we're not hearing, you know, things
• 10:45
  Speaker 2: that the judge says aren't relevant. So there's a lot
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: of your weighing as you're kind of evaluating what really happened.
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: But it seems to me that Eric kind of had
• 10:53
  Speaker 2: had you know, especially when you get to twenty seventeen.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Twenty eighteen got to a point where it was people
• 10:59
  Speaker 2: were aware of it and you know, I don't know,
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: you know, DG obviously was around Eric lat too, So
• 11:03
  Speaker 2: I mean, there's it's it's maybe not something everyone saw
• 11:07
  Speaker 2: every day, but it certainly seemed like it was growing
• 11:09
  Speaker 2: and becoming a problem.
• 11:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the weirdest thing for me, just having
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: known Eric literally since nineteen ninety six when he was
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: a kid in the PR department, just starting out, and
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: you know, being in Texas was surreal, just that whole
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: experience and seeing a team just devastated by, you know,
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: the death of a teammate. But I'll never forget the
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: first night. I think it was Tuesday night when they
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: resumed play. We're in the press box and Eric Kaye
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: tells me to look at his computer and he shows
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: me a video of Tyler Skaggs's wedding and Tyler's giving
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: his grooms groomsmen a bunch of pills. And I knew
• 11:47
  Speaker 1: right then something was going to be very weird here
• 11:49
  Speaker 1: that he's trying to tip me off to something, saying,
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: you know, Tyler Skaggs is not everything he appears, and
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: that of.
• 11:56
  Speaker 3: Course is sort of the video is playing at the truck.
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not surprised, just weird. So, Sam, you described
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: the sides in this trial as being very contentious or
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: the trial being very contentious at times? How did that
• 12:10
  Speaker 1: sort of pan out? And what sort of stood out
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: to you along those lines when.
• 12:15
  Speaker 3: People ask me about kind of like the actual trial.
• 12:17
  Speaker 3: I think there's like two ways to look at it.
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: I think the facts of the case are you can
• 12:21
  Speaker 2: litigate it on both ends, right, Like, you can make
• 12:23
  Speaker 2: a very strong case about Tyler's responsibility. I think, I
• 12:27
  Speaker 2: mean reasonable people and I think reasonable people on that jury,
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: you know, ultimately felt like Tyler was all very responsible
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: for this what I will say is when it came
• 12:35
  Speaker 2: to the actual litigating in court, I felt like the
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Scaggs lawyers just wipe the floor with them. I felt
• 12:44
  Speaker 2: like it was not a close matchup in terms of
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: just like trying the case, and you know, just it
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: came down to just credibility. I mean, there were there
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: were plenty of times where I felt like the Angel's
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: lawyers were portraying acts that were or you know, what
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: they said were facts that just weren't. Like at one point,
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: you know, Deborah Johnston, the top HR person with the Angels,
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: testify that MLB that the Angels had basically notified MLB
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: and we're working with Major League Baseball as a part
• 13:14
  Speaker 2: of MLB's Drug Policy Oversight Committee in addressing Ara Kai's addiction,
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: which was was not even remotely accurate. In fact, I
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: went to Major League Baseball immediately after Cork got out
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: that day and I sent them what was said, and
• 13:27
  Speaker 2: I said, is this accurate? And they actually sent back
• 13:29
  Speaker 2: an on the record statement refuting it, which you don't
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: usually see from Major League Baseball, especially against one of
• 13:34
  Speaker 2: their own thirty clubs. I think they felt it was
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: that important to correct the record.
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: And I you know, stuff like that. You know, It's
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: just it felt like that.
• 13:47
  Speaker 2: We were getting almost gas lit at times about what
• 13:50
  Speaker 2: was true what was not. And as someone that you
• 13:52
  Speaker 2: know was hearing all the sidebars from the judge and
• 13:55
  Speaker 2: like kind of hearing the way that the lawyers would
• 13:58
  Speaker 2: talk to the Jude compared to what they'd say in
• 13:59
  Speaker 2: front of the jury, I was just like, this isn't
• 14:01
  Speaker 2: this isn't a good way of going about it. Now,
• 14:03
  Speaker 2: that might be good lawyering in some ways. I mean, obviously,
• 14:06
  Speaker 2: if you don't have the facts on your side, you
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: need to win a case in some capacity.
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: But I just.
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: You know, I didn't buy this idea that Tyler had
• 14:15
  Speaker 2: thirteen beers on the plane heading to Texas, all on
• 14:19
  Speaker 2: the plane. I mean, that's just that doesn't really line
• 14:21
  Speaker 2: up for me as even remotely possible.
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: You know.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: So there's there were just and there were things that
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: had been litigated at the criminal trial that were being
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: trying to be reopened that just, you know, stuff that
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: had been proven beyond a reasonable doubt by a jury
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: that you're just so I maybe I'm kind of rambling
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: a little bit, but it's all just to say that
• 14:40
  Speaker 2: I don't really think that it was a I think
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: the reason why the Angels were going to lose that
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: wasn't it wasn't solely based on the actual facts of
• 14:47
  Speaker 2: the case, but based on, you know, the cases that
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: were being made by the legal teams that was you know,
• 14:52
  Speaker 2: Russy Harden's legal team. You know, that's a that's a
• 14:55
  Speaker 2: good firm obviously, and they I thought they did a
• 14:57
  Speaker 2: good job trying their case in ways that I was,
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: you know, sometimes confused about the way that the Angels
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: were trying their case. And you know, either of these
• 15:03
  Speaker 2: are things I've said out loud, so and it's not
• 15:05
  Speaker 2: like it's I'm not trying to you know, put anyone
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: on last year. It's just the way I saw it
• 15:10
  Speaker 2: as someone that's out there every day.
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: One of the terms you use in your coverage was
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: you described it as being a kind of a dark
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: arbitration case. Yeah, and it had to be weird to
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: sit there and see Dan du Kit on one side
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: and I forget the name of the other guy. Basically
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: basically like doing an arbitration case about a kid who
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: passed away six years ago. How strange was that and
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: how big of a role did that play in this strug.
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: That goes back to my last point where you know
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: the Angels whole, they put up all the slide in
• 15:39
  Speaker 2: their own closing arguments and when Dan Dukett testified saying
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: that Tyler Scaggs was declining as a pitcher. Now both
• 15:45
  Speaker 2: of you guys can go to a Baseball Reference and
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: see that his twenty eighteen season and the first after
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: of the twenty nineteen season were by far the best
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: that he had had in his career at that point.
• 15:53
  Speaker 2: I mean, he was on pace to have I think
• 15:55
  Speaker 2: like a two point two war season in twenty nineteen.
• 15:58
  Speaker 3: He's not an.
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: Elite star by amy, but he wasn't declining at that time.
• 16:02
  Speaker 2: So it just you know, when you're when you're realizing,
• 16:05
  Speaker 2: like the arguments they're making, they're saying, well, his era
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen was wasn't good or twenty thirteen wasn't good,
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: and it's like, well, he also made like four appearances
• 16:13
  Speaker 2: that year. You know, I think they were trying to
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: rely on a jury that maybe didn't understand baseball statistics
• 16:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, had fancy grafts and things like that.
• 16:21
  Speaker 2: But ultimately, I definitely think Tyler Skaggs was going to
• 16:24
  Speaker 2: be making more than thirty million dollars the rest of
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: his career if he had stayed healthy. And you know,
• 16:30
  Speaker 2: I think their best argument is, you could you can
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: make as well. He would have gotten caught and he
• 16:34
  Speaker 2: would have gotten in trouble and that would have impacted things.
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: And I think there's a there's a legit, legit argument
• 16:38
  Speaker 2: there potentially, But in terms of what he was doing
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: on the field, he was having a good year and
• 16:43
  Speaker 2: he was their best pitcher at the time, which maybe
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: isn't saying much, but he was the race. So yeah,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: when you talk about dark arv, it's just like that.
• 16:53
  Speaker 2: That is exactly what this was. It was two sides
• 16:57
  Speaker 2: arguing what his value would be. And I mean they
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: had an arbitration lawyer in there for the Skag's family,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: so it's, uh, you know. The Ultimately, I think that
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: the Angels were trying to say, we have someone who
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: actually draws up these contracts. We have someone that you know,
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: knows what a team is looking for, can speak to that.
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: You have someone that's more of a player advocate, and
• 17:16
  Speaker 2: it's sort of true, sort of not, but I don't
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: I didn't really buy that argument at all and ultimately
• 17:20
  Speaker 2: understanding how these contracts work. I think kind of maybe
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: colored my perspective wanted and you know, there are other
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: factors that play there. I mean that he would have
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: hit free agency at COVID, right, so you're, you know,
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: you're you're ultimately looking at a you know, his his
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: arbitrary His last arbitration year would have been that twenty
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: twenty season, which would have obviously cut through the salary.
• 17:40
  Speaker 2: But I you know, I go back to the Angels
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: did not pay out his twenty nineteen contract. I mean,
• 17:45
  Speaker 2: he was owed half that contract, which is about one
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: point eight million dollars. And I understand he wasn't pitching, right,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: he wasn't alive, But at the same time, I mean,
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: it just seemed like the right thing to do. Ultimately,
• 17:54
  Speaker 2: when then you then consider the fact that the Angels
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: were paying eric ka sefernce package and they continue to
• 18:01
  Speaker 2: fund his legal defense to this day. So you know,
• 18:06
  Speaker 2: those are the things I have trouble squaring sometimes.
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: Now, this case took a major turn in the final week,
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: right after the jury asked the judge a question about
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: punitive damages. Until that point, Sam, did you get many
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: or any indications that this case would settle.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: No. I mean, listen, it had been like an ongoing
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: I think conversation to some extent, but this came down
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: to insurance companies.
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: I don't think people fully realized this.
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: Wasn't to some extent already could have just settled it
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: and paid paid out of pocket. I mean, which you know,
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: I think a lot of people could argue maybe would
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: have been the pre to move and maybe more would
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: have been costly at the time, but you know, probably
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: would have saved them a lot of reputational damage. I
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: think you could argue they lost millions in reputational damage.
• 18:54
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's hard to quantify it, but that's why
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: it didn't settle, right, Like, the insurance companies weren't authorizing
• 19:01
  Speaker 2: payment up until that punit of damages question came in,
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: where I think some of the dominoes started to fall,
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and you know, the settlement, which you know, the number
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: of that payment has yet to be disclosed, but you know,
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: I think punitive damages are not covered by insurance, right,
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: so I think part of this was, you know, any
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: sort of other damages would have been probably covered by
• 19:27
  Speaker 2: insurance regardless of hot HW I win I think maybe
• 19:29
  Speaker 2: even up to close to like five hundred million or
• 19:31
  Speaker 2: something like that. But any there have been any punitive
• 19:34
  Speaker 2: damages that comes out of Artie Braino's pocket, essentially it
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: comes out of the Angel's pocket, and there would have
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: been a whole separate hearing on what those punitive damages
• 19:42
  Speaker 2: would have been based on the actual value of the Angels,
• 19:44
  Speaker 2: which would have been fascinating for I think a lot
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: of Angels fans to learn what the team is actually worth.
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: It could have impacted any future sales. There were a
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: lot of implications of getting to a point where there
• 19:54
  Speaker 2: were punitive damages, which heavily incentivized the team to settle.
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: After that, After that question and came in and you know,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: I talked with like the Jerry Foreman who was the
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: one that asked that question. You know, I think he
• 20:07
  Speaker 2: was far more on the plaintiff side than some of
• 20:09
  Speaker 2: the other jurs. Some of the jurors I think were
• 20:12
  Speaker 2: split and we're having a hard time kind of reconciling
• 20:14
  Speaker 2: some of the facts. So you know, it's ultimately they
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: would have had nine people agree on liability for the Angels,
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: but the dollar value maybe wouldn't have been as high
• 20:23
  Speaker 2: as I thought it was going to be.
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah, certainly the dollar value of what the jury said
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the verdict would have been indicates that they put a
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: fair share of the blame on Tyler Skaggs. Even though
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: Tyler Skagg's family didn't quote unquote win the case. I
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: don't think it was as huge a win as maybe
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: some thought it might be.
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, and I don't know, you know,
• 20:44
  Speaker 2: sometimes like I don't think Orange County is known for
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: giving out you know, just jurys in Orange County aren't
• 20:49
  Speaker 2: give that huge settlements or jury awards things like that.
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: And you're also I also felt like at times this
• 20:55
  Speaker 2: case could have fallen along political lines, and so you're
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: maybe dealing with, you know, a split in that way
• 21:01
  Speaker 2: of conservative versus more liberal. So there's you know, these
• 21:05
  Speaker 2: are all calculations that you're making during your wardier process
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: or jury selection process. And I was a little surprised
• 21:11
  Speaker 2: what the jury said, but you know it also that
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: is how this process works, and it is you know,
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: it's fair. At the end of the day, you got
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: to accept it. And you know, we don't know if
• 21:22
  Speaker 2: the Angels made a good deal.
• 21:22
  Speaker 3: Or a bad deal.
• 21:23
  Speaker 2: So to speak, but I think ultimately they wanted to
• 21:25
  Speaker 2: avoid having any punitive damages which the jury was going
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: to award.
• 21:28
  Speaker 3: Those.
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: I'll just we just don't know the actual dollar value
• 21:31
  Speaker 2: they would have been.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Well, they could have avoided a lot of the bad,
• 21:34
  Speaker 1: bad publicity that certainly came out during this trial. Why
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: do you think the case didn't settle beforehand?
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: I think insurance companies. I mean I think, you know,
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: they probably one insurance company in particular was looking at
• 21:49
  Speaker 2: this and saying, the facts are good for the Angels here.
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: You know, they felt like they had a chance to
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: win this trial. Now, you know, also it comes down
• 22:00
  Speaker 2: to Artie, right, like I think, you know, I think
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: that there is a we aren't responsible element to this.
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: That is how they felt, you know, internally, and you know,
• 22:10
  Speaker 2: I get it to some extent. I do I really
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: that part of it. I you know, I think that
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: there is nuance, and I think that that may be
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: where the Angels lacked is nuance, Like Molly Jolly is,
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: there's you know, a very important person with the Angels
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: there at CFO, I believe, high ranking executive was asked
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: on the last day of testimony if there's anything she
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: would have done differently learning because she was at the
• 22:28
  Speaker 2: defense table. The Angels were entitled to have a you know,
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: non lawyer representative like executive at the defense table for
• 22:34
  Speaker 2: the whole trial, and Molly was the person there, and
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: so she was asked, well, you sat here this whole time,
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: what would you do differently?
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: And she said, I might like look.
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: Over you know, policy manual or something, and I'm just like,
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: you know, again, it's like you're sitting in the courtroom.
• 22:50
  Speaker 3: You're kind of like that, and I'm like, that could learned?
• 22:54
  Speaker 2: Is your policy manual meets an update? I just I
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: felt like that was tough for me to hear because
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: there were a lot of things. You know, you could
• 23:03
  Speaker 2: sit here and say Tyler Scaggs is responsible for everything,
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: and even that separate from this idea we need to
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: be better, and I I strongly think the Angels need
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: to look in the mirror and say to themselves, what
• 23:14
  Speaker 2: do we need to do differently here? Beyond beyond everything
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: that you know they might feel about Tyler and his
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: role in this, they made mistakes along the way here.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: Erica should not have been on that trip, He shouldn't
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: have been employed by the Angels, at that point. I
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: think it's pretty clear that came in. That was how
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: I felt, and you know, just there were a lot
• 23:35
  Speaker 2: of mistakes made.
• 23:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was the defense. Eric case lawyer
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: used a trial in Texas and he told me several
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: times Tyler Skaggs is a drug addict. That was his defense,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: you know, and it didn't work out for him either.
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: So it's crazy. Ultimately what swung this case in the
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: favor of the Skaggs family.
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think you asked the jurors afterwards, it
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: was the HR failures.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: I think that's really what a lot of them kind
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: of points to.
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: Even some of the people that were, you know, more
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: in favor of the Skags or more in favor of
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: the Angels writ large, were like, the Angels didn't do
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: their due diligence on the HR department. They didn't find
• 24:15
  Speaker 2: Debora Johnston credible. From the things I was talking about
• 24:17
  Speaker 2: earlier with Major League Baseball, you know this there's a
• 24:20
  Speaker 2: doctor's note that was obviously just like an extension of
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: leave note that you know that brought Eric back to work,
• 24:26
  Speaker 2: you know, ultimately before Tyler, right before Tyler's death. I
• 24:29
  Speaker 2: just think there was a lot of inconsistencies with how
• 24:32
  Speaker 2: the HR department handled other cases.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: I mean, it was it was.
• 24:35
  Speaker 2: Anybody that was actually listening to the testimony would tell
• 24:38
  Speaker 2: you that their HR department just messed up a lot,
• 24:41
  Speaker 2: and that I think was what you're is, at least
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: from my conversations with them afterward, said that they felt
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: like was the strongest, you know, case against the team.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: Well, with the settlement, the Angels don't have any liability,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: they don't have to invent any guilt, but there's obviously
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: some reaper cushions to this whole trial. First of all,
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: where do the Angels go from here? And Mark, maybe
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: you can weigh in on just, you know, the public
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: perception of this franchise right now and how it was
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: impacted by this trial.
• 25:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, Sam, so go ahead.
• 25:19
  Speaker 3: Oh no, no, I was.
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I'm very curious to kind of hear your thoughts on that.
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: But I mean it's, you know, in terms of where
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: it goes next. I would just say that I think
• 25:25
  Speaker 2: Major League Baseball is looking at this, and they should
• 25:28
  Speaker 2: look at this. They should read every I'm surprised they
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: didn't have a lawyer in the courtroom every day. I mean,
• 25:32
  Speaker 2: to be honest, with you is one of their thirty teams.
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: The Major League Baseball should have been very involved in this. Ultimately,
• 25:38
  Speaker 2: a lot of what was being litigated was did was
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: MLB's policies followed at a point And so I mean,
• 25:43
  Speaker 2: you know, I think that a settlement allows everybody to
• 25:46
  Speaker 2: be like, well, you know, the two sides figured it
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: out on their own, and.
• 25:50
  Speaker 3: We don't need to get involved.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: But if you're Major League Baseball, they have a duty
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: to very least investigate the claims that came out in
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: this trial and to figure out exactly what happened here.
• 25:59
  Speaker 2: And you know, as there was conduct that I think
• 26:02
  Speaker 2: needs to be looked into, and if you're the Angels,
• 26:03
  Speaker 2: that should be proactive process. I mean, we talked about
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: you know, trumb we talked about like the you know,
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: pill prescription.
• 26:10
  Speaker 3: Stuff like that.
• 26:11
  Speaker 2: I mean, Eric k was prescribed six hundred pills maybe
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: by Craig Milhouse, the team doctor. You know, over the
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: course of four years. It's like, somebody needs to look
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: into the way every a lot of these things are
• 26:24
  Speaker 2: handled and are these people that are currently running some
• 26:26
  Speaker 2: of these departments and charge of some very important things
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: still to this day, are they are they doing the
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: jobs they need to be doing correctly.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Mark, what do you think the fallout from this case?
• 26:37
  Speaker 4: I mean there's there are no winners, and I think,
• 26:40
  Speaker 4: you know, reputations have been damaged. It's almost you know,
• 26:48
  Speaker 4: try and separate things to some degree. The people that
• 26:51
  Speaker 4: are involved, especially the ones that I know and have
• 26:54
  Speaker 4: a lot of respect for. Some of them had to
• 26:57
  Speaker 4: you know, appear in the trial and putting some very
• 27:01
  Speaker 4: awkward positions. I'm not sure you know what the strategy
• 27:06
  Speaker 4: was one of the earlier witnesses. I think you can
• 27:07
  Speaker 4: probably decipher who I'm talking about, but you know, I
• 27:13
  Speaker 4: think that they were kind of left out in the cold.
• 27:14
  Speaker 4: And you know, truly genuine, you know, great people that care.
• 27:19
  Speaker 4: I think their peer department as a whole is excellent.
• 27:22
  Speaker 4: They're very sam you deal with them all the time,
• 27:24
  Speaker 4: so do you might, you know, and they treated the
• 27:28
  Speaker 4: players really well. And Eric was somewhat of an anomaly,
• 27:32
  Speaker 4: but for a long time he was very functional and
• 27:34
  Speaker 4: he's That role is very tough at times because you
• 27:38
  Speaker 4: have to rely on the players to you know, acquiesce
• 27:42
  Speaker 4: and say yes to do in some of these interviews,
• 27:44
  Speaker 4: and you're constantly asking for things and it's got to
• 27:48
  Speaker 4: wear on you. And you know, at times the players
• 27:50
  Speaker 4: have you know, a decent amount of leverage they can
• 27:53
  Speaker 4: tell you to you know, no thanks or worse, and
• 27:58
  Speaker 4: then you have to go back and you know you're
• 28:01
  Speaker 4: not able to effectively do your job because you're the
• 28:04
  Speaker 4: conduit between the media and and the players, and the
• 28:08
  Speaker 4: media is you know, a necessary part of the game.
• 28:13
  Speaker 4: And I think the Angels have done an incredibly poor
• 28:16
  Speaker 4: job of communicating with the media from the top down.
• 28:22
  Speaker 4: Very few interviews, sometimes no availability at all, no transparency,
• 28:29
  Speaker 4: and I don't really get it, and I haven't gotten
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: it for a while. As somebody who's no longer playing,
• 28:33
  Speaker 4: I follow the team, I watch the games, and you know,
• 28:37
  Speaker 4: it seems like a couple times a year somebody will
• 28:40
  Speaker 4: pop their head up, maybe with the writer they feel
• 28:43
  Speaker 4: comfortable talking to, but you know, you don't. You have
• 28:47
  Speaker 4: to fill in the blanks on your own, and that
• 28:49
  Speaker 4: can be kind of, you know, not so great. If
• 28:52
  Speaker 4: they're not they're not doing a good job of controlling
• 28:55
  Speaker 4: the image of the team and trying to you know,
• 28:59
  Speaker 4: I don't know what image there is right now, to
• 29:01
  Speaker 4: be honest, I think that you know, they're drafting a
• 29:04
  Speaker 4: lot on the success of a world championship that was
• 29:08
  Speaker 4: over two decades ago. That's still a big deal. And
• 29:12
  Speaker 4: you know, opening Day bringing out the you know, and
• 29:15
  Speaker 4: that is a big deal, don't get me wrong, incredible achievement.
• 29:18
  Speaker 4: But in recent history, there's you know, there's just not
• 29:20
  Speaker 4: much and this is just another thing that kind of
• 29:23
  Speaker 4: is dragging, kind of a boat anchor. And when you
• 29:27
  Speaker 4: talk about a franchise, No, I'm.
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: Just curious, how do you think players internalize this? Because
• 29:32
  Speaker 2: we're in a free agency now, and like I wondered,
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: like when you see this trial playing out, like I
• 29:36
  Speaker 2: don't know how many how much players really care about,
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: you know, litigating some six seven.
• 29:41
  Speaker 3: Year old case.
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: But like if you're a player, like you understand the
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: way that the agents work, the way that players think,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: I mean, would this be something that would impact their
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: perspectives this trial?
• 29:52
  Speaker 4: It's hard to not at least if you if you
• 29:57
  Speaker 4: don't know anything about it, then then no. But you know,
• 30:00
  Speaker 4: if you're somewhat interested and you read a couple of
• 30:02
  Speaker 4: the articles maybe maybe you put out or some of
• 30:05
  Speaker 4: the things you it paints a picture of you know,
• 30:09
  Speaker 4: if they're a team that's after a player and the
• 30:13
  Speaker 4: players weigh in the options. It's I don't think this
• 30:16
  Speaker 4: is a selling point.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 30:17
  Speaker 4: I don't see any upside to it. You know, they're
• 30:19
  Speaker 4: in a legal battle, that you know, and they had
• 30:22
  Speaker 4: to fight their case at the end of the day.
• 30:24
  Speaker 4: If they're you know, you're going to go into court
• 30:25
  Speaker 4: and do it. That's what it looks like to some degree.
• 30:30
  Speaker 4: There were some interesting things that you know, while you
• 30:31
  Speaker 4: were talking that I think that one day was cut
• 30:33
  Speaker 4: short due to a holiday party. Yeah, that seemed quite
• 30:40
  Speaker 4: odd to me. I you know, you're fighting for keeps here,
• 30:47
  Speaker 4: and I don't know, it seemed you know, this is
• 30:52
  Speaker 4: you know, just simply my observation that the job of
• 30:55
  Speaker 4: the the lawyers seemed odd on one of the sides. So,
• 31:03
  Speaker 4: but you know, that's that's all partly because I'm left
• 31:05
  Speaker 4: filling in the same gaps I'm talking about. You know,
• 31:09
  Speaker 4: is there any kind of statement released. You didn't see anything,
• 31:12
  Speaker 4: so you you know, it's everyone else around you just
• 31:15
  Speaker 4: filling in the blanks on your own, and it's you
• 31:20
  Speaker 4: don't get any information that says otherwise. It looks very
• 31:24
  Speaker 4: bad and as a you know, a free agent coming here,
• 31:27
  Speaker 4: it's just, you know, amongst all the other things, the
• 31:30
  Speaker 4: on field play being the biggest factor. I think this
• 31:33
  Speaker 4: is just a kind of another negative that you know,
• 31:36
  Speaker 4: they're gonna have to work pretty hard to overcome and rebrand.
• 31:40
  Speaker 4: I think in some way to make this a desirable
• 31:42
  Speaker 4: place for players to come. Living near the beach is awesome,
• 31:45
  Speaker 4: but that can't be the only reason that you're playing
• 31:48
  Speaker 4: for a ball club. For one of those.
• 31:52
  Speaker 2: I just wanted to reiterate one thing that you said,
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: which is, you know this, One of the things was
• 31:57
  Speaker 2: tough for me about this was all these people going
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: up there that I know, getting, you know, having to
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: be under the gun and testify.
• 32:03
  Speaker 3: And I really agree with you.
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: Like the Angel's PR staff, they get maligned for this
• 32:09
  Speaker 2: particular case, but also just for how bad the team
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: is and for a lot of the lack of transparency
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: from that are those are decisions that are being made
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: at the very top. You look at the Angels PR staff,
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: I think that from the top down, it's as good
• 32:20
  Speaker 2: as you get major League Baseball. I firmly believe that,
• 32:25
  Speaker 2: and it sucks for them, so as you know, I
• 32:26
  Speaker 2: feel like any Angels fan that is processing all the
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: information about this should understand that part of it, you know,
• 32:32
  Speaker 2: this is this is not a rotten.
• 32:33
  Speaker 3: To the core organization.
• 32:35
  Speaker 2: There are a lot of really good people who had
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: to go up there and testify and who who you know,
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: probably for the sake of their jobs, felt like they
• 32:41
  Speaker 2: needed to. And that's that part of it is tough too.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, you know, I felt like you're letting Mike
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: Trout go up there and testify and this, I mean,
• 32:49
  Speaker 2: that's why you need to talk about settlement. I mean,
• 32:51
  Speaker 2: they you know, they they announced Kurtuzuki as the manager
• 32:54
  Speaker 2: in the middle of Mike Traft testifying to try and
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: you know, what kind of organization is this, I mean,
• 32:58
  Speaker 2: where all these things are happening, and it's just that's
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: the tough part. But I do I really feel like
• 33:04
  Speaker 2: there are good people there and a lot of those
• 33:07
  Speaker 2: people got dragged through this in a tough way. And
• 33:09
  Speaker 2: you know, like you said to me, you know, I'm
• 33:12
  Speaker 2: sure you were alluding to Timmy, the first, uh.
• 33:14
  Speaker 3: First witness of the whole trial.
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: It was, you know, spent forty years with the Angels
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: and you know, in the front office in PR and
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of different capacity who's as respected as anybody
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: is in the game who went to work at the
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: Hall of Fame after working with the Ages around the
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: same time Tyler's death. And he's you know, as good
• 33:31
  Speaker 2: as they come. But you know, you get brought in
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: the middle of this, and I thought it was a
• 33:34
  Speaker 2: really tough spot for him. And you know, there were
• 33:36
  Speaker 2: things he testified too that I just you know, I
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: didn't fully believe at times, like not necessarily remembering if
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: you found bags of drugs at Eric K's home, Like
• 33:46
  Speaker 2: how do you not remember that?
• 33:47
  Speaker 3: So that's you know, these are things you're weighing as
• 33:51
  Speaker 3: it plays out.
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: But I think it sucks that, you know, people are
• 33:54
  Speaker 2: getting put in the middle of this and you know,
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: being forced to kind of make decisions about you know,
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: what you test by to or or you know, do
• 34:02
  Speaker 2: you want to keep your job type stuff. It's it's
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: that that's probably a calculation in the back of certain
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: people's minds when you're when you're going up there and testify.
• 34:09
  Speaker 3: But there's a lot of good people there, including that
• 34:11
  Speaker 3: PR staff. They do a great job.
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: Before closing the show with one final question for Sam,
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: I want to thank Mark Trumbull for referring to the
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: media as a necessary part of the game and not
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: a necessary evil. Thank you Mark Well, I mean thank
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: you Anthony wren Doon.
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: Sam.
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: What do you think the fallout is going to be
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: from this trial?
• 34:36
  Speaker 3: I don't know.
• 34:37
  Speaker 2: I mean, it could it could be nothing. I mean,
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: it could just be reputation was damaged, and you know,
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: they just keep playing baseball and keep losing baseball.
• 34:46
  Speaker 3: Games, and that's just what happens. Uh. So, I don't know.
• 34:51
  Speaker 3: I I I think.
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: That there should be uh the like lead should.
• 34:56
  Speaker 3: Look into this.
• 34:56
  Speaker 2: I just I you know, I don't know if that
• 34:58
  Speaker 2: I'm not saying that should punish. I'm saying should look
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: into it, and they should address some of these things
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: that came out if they feel like, you know, it
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: was true and it's worth it because and that's not
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: against the Angels or against it's just like that's what
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: needs to happen in these in these in these situations,
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: Like I think what you saw was that a lack
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: of that throughout years of employing Eric k where there
• 35:18
  Speaker 2: probably should have been someone looking into his behavior. I
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: mean he was sending emails on his work computer and
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: his work email address to purchase drugs off the street.
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's that's the kind of stuff where if
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: that's it's getting to that point, he either felt way
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: too comfortable in that in his job. It was just
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: there was nobody ever looking into it. There was nobody
• 35:38
  Speaker 2: ever that was, you know, holding him accountable, and ultimately,
• 35:42
  Speaker 2: like I think Eric K would have rather been fired
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: than be where he is now. So you know, I
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: just I think that there needs to be somebody looking
• 35:50
  Speaker 2: at at what happened here and making sure it never
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: happens again.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: Oh that will close this episode of Halo Territory thing.
• 36:00
  Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, thanks for listening, Please like and subscribe,
• 36:03
  Speaker 1: and we'll see you next time on Helo Territory