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Back to business with our new President · Espresso Briefings by BusinessEurope

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to Espresso Briefings by Business Europe.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_00: Timely insights and expert perspectives served in short, sharp episodes to fuel your thinking.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to Espresso Briefings, Business Europe's podcast where we take a short coffee break to discuss the big issues shaping European business.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Sophia Communications Director at Business Europe.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Summer is over, Brussels is back, and Europe is headed into a busy autumn.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: Competitiveness remains at the top of the agenda.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: But for businesses, the key question is simple: when will they start to feel the difference?
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: And Business Europe enters this new season with a new president.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_01: Macy Wytutski is a Polish business leader with a career spanning telecoms, finance, and services.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: He has led our Polish member, Confederation Leviathan, and previously served as Business Europe vice president.
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_01: Maciej, welcome to Espresso Briefings.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, and welcome to everybody.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's your first time with us and your first autumn as president.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_01: Let's go straight into it.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: What will be the big topics for the business community in autumn?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's continuity and some super hot last-minute topics because we live in a strange and very dynamic time.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously, you spoke about competitiveness, yes, but we have to decline it into the very concrete actions because Leta and Drag reports are already two years old.
• 1:23
  SPEAKER_00: Both of them are advanced at what 10, 15, 20 percent.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: So there is a frustration growing between the business community but also citizens.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: And you see it in the recent elections that people they want us to act and act dynamically, rapidly, to change more, to change more towards the more dynamic and somehow aggressive economically Europe.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_00: So to win back some positions or at least to stop to lose them.
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned that there is a frustration in the business community.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: Before taking the helm of business Europe, you travel through European capitals, you met our members, you met companies.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_01: So you had a chance to hear from them directly.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_01: So what is the mood of the companies in Europe?
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there's a bad message and good message as usual.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_00: So bad message is effectively we are not yet in the reconquest mode.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_00: So the businesses are mostly uh suffering, so there's some exceptions.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: Poland almost plus 4% GDP, uh, more at the smaller scale, Ireland, but mostly big European economies are still suffering.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: And here there's expectation on the prices of energy, somehow on the simplification slash delegation, uh, depending on how much politically correct you want my language to be.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_00: But this is a long-term expectation.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's the fact that at least let's do not produce any more useless regulations, and let's eventually try to improve a bit the past, but uh energy obviously remains the issue.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: But then there's the international context, there is uh all this area of the unclear situation with unclear unstable situation towards the United States.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, there is also the question of China, and hopefully we'll we'll speak about a bit more.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then obviously, the political choices within the European countries are pushing this instability.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: The good news now, because to finish with the good news, is when you travel across the capitals, they somehow lately but discovered the role of Brussels and of EU.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So clearly the message is there's no alternative to a common action.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So nobody can resist.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: The largest countries, the ones owning almost 300 nuclear bombs, or the ones owning the largest European economy.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: None of them can stand alone towards uh US, China, India, Indonesia tomorrow.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: So this fact that we have to work together, that we have to work as a union, and that we have to work through Brussels, it's a good news for Business Europe.
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, indeed.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, the issue of regulation is coming back again and again.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we heard a lot about simplification, plans for reducing regulatory burden, but companies still don't see the delivery on this.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Do you think something can happen in the coming months for delivery for business?
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: My optimism is limited on this one.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: So, yes, it will progress, but let's be clear: you cannot force civil servants and administration to work against its DNA, the DNA of administration is to regulate.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, what we have to do is eventually have uh smarter regulations, less of them uh uh cross-check that they serve the purpose of growth.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: The 28th regime, it's it's a good example.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: The efforts towards the construction of the single market, because this is something which in theory we have for 40 years, but practice there's still big barriers.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_00: The fact that whenever you hear a President von der Leyen, you hear about the fact that we need the single market, that we need to accelerate the energy affordability process, so those are good signs.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: Now, uh, should we expect anything big in the incoming weeks?
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think so, but we have to keep the pressure.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: As Business Europe, as the business community, we keep the pressure every single day.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: We try to push the agenda, we try to push the, I would say, if not the full deregulation, at least more and more rational regulations in the future, because there's a lot of them in the pipeline.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned also energy.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: We can't ignore this challenge for companies because European companies continue to face energy costs that are much higher than their competitors globally.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: How urgent is the situation for European companies?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, it depends on the country.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no well, the common solution is a common market, the long-term one.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's the fact that we will not be definitely able to really decrease the costs across Europe unless we one day go into the single market of energy.
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously, you have differences per country because the structure of the energy provider is different.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Some countries have advantages today, some of them invested more or have been lucky to have hydro energy more available, some of them are flattish like Poland, and whatever we do, we will not be able to build, and we lack of water.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_00: The structural differences make also the compromise more complicated short term, but the need is there.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: The understanding that the common target by the end is lower price of energy, i.e., common market interconnectors, development of the new sources of energy, the big revolution of the nuclear being now somehow mentally authorized across Europe.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_00: So hopefully the only thing we have to do is just to make it happen.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's just to continue the pressure through business Europe, through our member organizations to accelerate the process.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: One, of building new capacities of uh of cheaper energy, and two, to find the compromise, long-term compromise on the on the single market across Europe.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here you sound quite optimistic already, but it comes down basically to a fairly simple question: is Europe still an attractive place to invest, to grow, to do business?
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: What would you say to a young entrepreneur who would ask your advice where to invest in Europe or to go somewhere else?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_00: Well, first of all, there is uh and I will start this way there's no alternative to Europe for Europeans.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, some smart people may go to the United States and join the AI revolution.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Let's be very clear, it's a it's a very interesting continent, it's a large market, full of educated young people like you, with capabilities.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we have to build a better environment for them.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: So they are actions planned for it, like the investment and savings union.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: They are actions, so Europe is no more in this way of, yeah, we have we're doomed.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so the solutions are somehow more and more known and defined.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: The dragie, the letter reports.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's very simple.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_00: Let's just do it.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Because we are not missing talents.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: We have them, the young people.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: We we are not missing money, equity, savings.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: We have them, but they are being invested across the Atlantic instead of being invested in in Europe.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: We have now even the politicians seeing those solutions.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's up to us to give up on some egoistic national uh approaches as well, because uh Europe is suboptimal.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_00: So we have a lot of those assets, but they are being inequally spread and they're being inequally uh used.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: And this is good for nobody, even if some of countries have advantage in this area or that area.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: All in all, if we want to convince 450 million Europeans to stay with us, uh the smart ones not to leave to Asia or to America, uh, we have to share more and more.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Let's move on and discuss another important topic.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: You know Business Europe very well, but this is your first appearance in um espresso briefings, and I'm sure our listeners would be interested to know a little bit more about your plans uh in the new role.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: You take over from Frederick Persson's four years as president.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_01: Do you see your presidency as a continuation of that work?
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you think it will be, or you plan to do a totally new chapter for Business Europe?
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I think there's a continuity because we know the targets.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now the question is that in the last years, we have been very much Europe has been very much changing, and business group was very much working on this change of mindset from the Europe which was based on climate ambitions, green transformations, and I'm very known already publicly that we have to save the earth and the planet, we have to save the climate, but we have to have targets, uh, not only the ambitions, because if you have ambitions without plans, without investments which are needed, then you create only frustration on both sides, on the ones willing, like me, willing to save the planets, but also on the ones who are unable to pay for.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_00: So now it's it's a big job which has been achieved to somehow change the mood, go into a more pragmatic uh approach.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_00: The issue is that you cannot speak about clear continuation or continuity because you have new challenges every day.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: You see the international relation, you see those, I would say, imbalance with examples of imbalance between Europe and China.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: We have been supporting it for too long.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: We feel it and we know it now.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a gossip, it's a knowledge now that we have to redefine those relations.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: So we'll have completely new challenges and completely new crises in front of us.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: So business Europe will have to act uh rapidly and to adapt to it while keeping the pressure on what was already achieved.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: So pragmatic, I would say, compromise on both saving uh the planet uh but also saving the jobs and rebuilding the industry in Europe.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: We need it for our security, but we need it also for our economy, and we need it to sustain the socioeconomic model of Europe, which is exceptional and which costs a lot of money.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we need GDP growth to find this money for the socioeconomic model and for saving the penguins and the whales of the far north.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_01: You also bring a particular perspective to the job.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you're coming from Poland, you witnessed the remarkable economic transformation firsthand of your country.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_01: You've seen the Poland from catching up with Europe to becoming one of the EU's most dynamic economies.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: What Europe today can learn from Poland's experience in competitiveness?
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would say somehow, and I hopefully you hear it from me, a bit of the optimism in the sense of, you know, Europe, it's it's everybody's complaining about Europe, but but Europe is 1% of the national GDPs.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when you see how much of this, how much we could achieve in many countries, like in Poland, like in other countries of the Central and Eastern Europe, with this little amount of money compared to the zillions of euros which we have still in the national budgets and which are still creating mostly what we see, currently frustrations in those uh rich nations, it gives a sound of optimism in the sense of together we can do more.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: So with the more rational, more I would say, short burden-oriented uh projects, less egoistic projects, we can uh still defend Europe and not only defend Europe but also develop the assets which are still existing.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_00: We may not be as strong an AI as the Americans, so we may not be as strong in some industry, so we will not we don't want to come back to the I would say productions of one euro t-shirts uh which are being produced today in Vietnam or Indonesia.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: This will not come back to Europe, and hopefully we will have, and we can still have a chance, we still have a chance to produce more added value products in Europe.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: So optimism by the fact that we collaborate and the fact that if we want to do it on our own per country, kind of getting back to the national approaches, there's no way that we can succeed in front of our, I would say competitors, because those are not necessarily enemies, but competitors across the globe.
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yes, indeed.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think Euro optimism is something that is always brings a wave of enlargements, wave of new countries in Europe.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Poland is not, of course, um a newcomer anymore at all.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_01: Also becoming a president of Business Europe is quite a personal milestone, and the role is a very high profile, but we all started somewhere.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: Would you like to share a little bit about your first steps uh on the ladder, about your first work experiences and what what was your path to come here?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: No, I I started as a teaching assistant at the university in in Paris, but teaching assistant helps because you speak to people and it's it's a lot about communicating.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_00: So today, number one, and second of all, I try to keep contact with with students and young people because the again, you you guys are uh are the ones who will continue this job, and you are the guys who vote, uh you are the guys who who mostly revolt against the current regime.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: So we we have to to stay in touch with with you.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: So this appetite to meet with with young people is number one.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Second, obviously, working in the international companies because this is all about collaboration across the borders, this European uh obsession, but there's no plan B.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: And I will repeat this one that's not only Euro optimism, it's a euro-realism.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_00: In a sense, nobody can stand up on her own her own in Europe today.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that it does help a lot.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and then six years passed with in difficult times in Poland, because that was uh I was uh running the police association of employers, Leviathan, at the time when the Polish regime was not necessarily the most fan of the rule of law.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: So it was a tough period of uh fighting for the interest of our members.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, by the end, the role of we are a lobbying organization.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know it sounds terrible, but uh, we fight for the interest of our members, for the interest of the of the European businesses and in industries, and this is what it takes for.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes it's tough, it's not necessarily only about the high profile, it's also about uh I would say high risk or at least a high level of criticism, but that's uh that's what it is.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_01: Now, lobby is not uh not a dirty word anymore.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: It actually means interest representation.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, be it business or or NGOs or civil society, it's it's lobby now.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_00: And again, I I think we we have to use the open language.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: People deserve to have a clear communication.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: The 450 Europeans, uh million Europeans they deserve uh a clear communication.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_00: I have no problem to name uh our activity as lobbying.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Same, I would say uh our friends, NGOs are the lobbyists, our trade union friends are the lobbyists.
• 14:20
  SPEAKER_00: So there's nothing wrong with this.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's better that we use the words which are understandable and which describe properly our roles than that we play some kind of games which which are only blurring the picture.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's part of democracy.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: Mache, we've covered competitiveness regulations, your agenda.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I think you've earned your espresso with us.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let's finish with some very short questions.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Give us first answer which comes to your mind morning person or night owl?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: Night owl, definitely.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: First thing you check in the morning.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_00: News, news, and news.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm news dependent person.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: One European city you always enjoy going back to.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Warso, especially recently, with this 4% growth uh revolution, the fact that uh every single day you come back to the town is different, it gives some hope and it feeds the optimism.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_01: One person from business, politics, or history you'd like to have an espresso with?
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: Tough question.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, I like the espresso of my wife in the morning, uh in the late morning.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's the and she's the source of my inspiration, uh, first of all.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So well, this brings us to a question uh very relevant for espresso briefing.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_01: Espresso, cappuccino, or something else?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: A pure espresso.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: I need a lot of a little blood in my in my coffee to be functional in the in the morning.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Best piece of advice that you've ever received.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think that the the the the best I uh it's a professor whom I got at the very beginning of my teaching custom who teach me to make my slides with uh no more than four or five lines and with the very important message on the left upper side of the of the slides.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_00: So make it short, make it visible, make it uh catchy.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: We should all take uh take a note of that one.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: Machi, thank you.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: A new presidency, a new political season, and clearly no shortage of work ahead of us.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot for joining us.
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure it won't be your last espresso briefings, and thanks everyone for listening.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.