Latest / The Morning Edition / Dezi Freeman killed two policemen, but to some he’s still an ‘outlaw hero’

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Dezi Freeman killed two policemen, but to some he’s still an ‘outlaw hero’ · The Morning Edition

0:06
S1: It's been a year since a murderous ambush in rural
0:09
S1: Victoria led to Australia s biggest manhunt, and the consequences
0:13
S1: are being felt beyond the dense bush and old mines
0:16
S1: of the country that Desi Freeman escaped. Because Freeman didn't
0:21
S1: just shatter the lives of those left behind after he
0:24
S1: killed two police officers. I'm Samantha Cylinder Morris, and you're
0:29
S1: listening to Morning Edition from The Age and the Sydney
0:31
S1: Morning Herald. Today, crime journalist Sharon Gronk on the underground
0:36
S1: network and doomsday preppers in the high country. And why Freeman,
0:41
S1: a monster to some, has become an outlaw hero to
0:44
S1: an entrenched part of Australian society. It's Wednesday, August 26th. Sharon,
0:54
S1: welcome back to the podcast.
0:56
S2: Thanks for having me again, Sam.
0:58
S1: Now, you recently returned to Papanca. So what is it
1:01
S1: like there now? One year after Desi Freeman shot and
1:05
S1: killed two police officers?
1:08
S2: Yes. Well, until Freeman shot those police, they were serving
1:12
S2: a warrant on him in a child sexual abuse investigation.
1:16
S2: This little remote town in Pupukea. It was really just
1:19
S2: another beautiful snow town that you'd. You'd drive through in
1:22
S2: Victoria's high country on the way to the slopes. Maybe
1:25
S2: you'd go there for some bike riding. I'd been there
1:27
S2: myself a lot of times, but there's this whole other
1:31
S2: world there, off grid that you'd never find from a
1:34
S2: tourist road. So in town you'll find all the families
1:37
S2: crowding around cafe heaters queuing for their hire skis. But then,
1:42
S2: just a few kilometres away, you've got someone like Ray Kemp,
1:46
S2: who's a 73 year old little hermit living in this
1:49
S2: off grid hut where he only gets his news when
1:52
S2: people come to his door or when he pops into town,
1:56
S2: which he tells me he only really does when he's
1:58
S2: lost something. So it's a strange, kind of beautiful place,
2:02
S2: and the locals are understandably very tired of outsiders. Now,
2:06
S2: a year on after Desi Freeman, because the manhunt for
2:10
S2: him that went on for seven months, it really shut
2:13
S2: down these tourist towns in the peak of what was
2:17
S2: quite a rare bumper snow season in 2025. So they're
2:21
S2: a bit they're sick of outsiders like journalists, and they
2:24
S2: can kind of pick them a mile away. Some of
2:26
S2: these people, they're very eager not to be defined by
2:29
S2: Freeman's actions. They're they've bounced back from the lockdowns. And
2:34
S2: they they tell me, you know, they're glad he's dead.
2:37
S2: They're glad the families of the cops are getting some closure.
2:40
S2: But then there's other people just as eager to insist
2:44
S2: they don't believe the official story. They'll accuse the media
2:48
S2: of missing the real details. But then they're, you know,
2:51
S2: they couldn't possibly divulge those details. And they're citing unspecified
2:56
S2: legal advice or unproven conspiracy theories. So it's a little
3:00
S2: bit of a strange place, but everyone there really does
3:03
S2: want answers.
3:05
S1: And could you just remind listeners, you know, who Desi
3:08
S1: Freeman was and what happened on that date on August 26th, 2025?
3:14
S2: So Desi Freeman, his real name was actually Desmond Philby.
3:19
S2: And he'd grown up in the area around the high country.
3:22
S2: The family had moved around a bit. They'd also been
3:24
S2: up at the border, but he was a local guy.
3:28
S2: He was known for loving bushcraft. But in more recent years,
3:33
S2: he'd also been sort of rapidly kind of vanishing down
3:37
S2: this wormhole of sovereign citizen ideology. So these are the
3:42
S2: people that reject the authority of the state. They often
3:45
S2: challenge things like, you know, driving fines and other penalties
3:50
S2: through the courts, using their own brand of pseudo law
3:53
S2: or nonsense law. They might drive under fake license plates.
3:57
S2: They'll often homeschool their kids and live off grid like
4:00
S2: Desi did. And sometimes they change their name to Free Men,
4:05
S2: which is how we ended up with Desi Freeman. So
4:08
S2: on that day, on August 26th, there was ten cops
4:12
S2: going to serve a warrant on Desi Freeman in a
4:15
S2: child sexual abuse investigation. They took, you know, two of
4:19
S2: their vests. They took a retiring veteran, Neil Thompson. They
4:24
S2: took a young cop named Vadim who had just come
4:27
S2: down from Melbourne. He'd been with the the Rapid Response Squad.
4:31
S2: They didn't want to spook him too much. So they
4:33
S2: didn't bring in like the specialist tactical cops. But they
4:37
S2: came in to speak to Desi and it ended up
4:39
S2: with Desi barricading himself inside the makeshift bus that he
4:43
S2: was living off grid on this property, this big farm
4:47
S2: where a lot of people were living. He barricaded himself
4:50
S2: in there with him and his wife, Molly, and their
4:52
S2: little toddler when the cops tried to enter. After long negotiation,
4:57
S2: they didn't realize he had a gun. He fired. He
5:00
S2: killed two of the cops, he injured another, and he
5:03
S2: fled down to the Buckland River and he wasn't seen
5:07
S2: again for another seven months. So this is seven months
5:10
S2: on the run in really treacherous terrain.
5:13
S1: And I wanted to ask you a bit about that terrain,
5:15
S1: because there was a refrain that was repeated to you
5:18
S1: by some of the people that you spoke to when
5:20
S1: you were in the town and the places surrounding that,
5:22
S1: and that was that. The high country was, quote, still
5:25
S1: Kelly Country. So what did they mean by that? And
5:28
S1: I guess, what does this say a year on? Or
5:30
S1: what does this illuminate for those of us who are
5:32
S1: not familiar with this area and with some of the
5:35
S1: people who live there?
5:37
S2: Yes. Well, Kelly country, I guess this is different country.
5:41
S2: It's not maybe, you know, the outback dusty noir that
5:44
S2: people might think of with the Australian bush. It's beyond
5:47
S2: that tourist bubble of bright and papanca. It's actually really treacherous.
5:51
S2: If you stray too far from the path, you can
5:53
S2: end up up to your neck in blackberries. There's old
5:56
S2: mine shafts, there's secret tunnels, and of course, conspiracy theorists
6:01
S2: online that have really lionized Desi, including while he was
6:05
S2: on the run. They've really latched on to this idea
6:07
S2: that punk is only about like 80km away from Glenrowan,
6:12
S2: which is, of course, the famous site of Ned Kelly's
6:16
S2: last stand against police about 150 years ago. But remember,
6:20
S2: Ned Kelly also murdered those cops. So in the wake
6:24
S2: of this, I mean, even some of Neil Thompson's friends
6:28
S2: around town have been sort of revealed to have sympathies
6:32
S2: to these anti-government views. It's in this part of the
6:36
S2: world that you will find, uh, that these sovereign citizen
6:39
S2: ideas are popping up more and more. Local councils are
6:42
S2: talking about them even at federal elections. They're noticing more
6:45
S2: of these protest votes and online that, you know, with
6:49
S2: with Desi on the run until he was caught at
6:51
S2: that hideout. You know, many kilometres away at the border
6:55
S2: with New South Wales and and shot dead, dead after
6:58
S2: refusing to surrender to police. He really became, for a
7:02
S2: lot of people online, this sort of modern day Ned
7:04
S2: Kelly figure on the run, putting his nose up at authorities.
7:09
S2: We even saw his image appear at some far right
7:11
S2: rallies and things like that.
7:14
S1: And one of the things that I think fascinates me, certainly,
7:16
S1: I'm sure will fascinate a lot of listeners and people
7:18
S1: who read your incredible feature was how Desi Freeman was
7:22
S1: actually able to disappear into this treacherous bush after he
7:25
S1: killed those two police officers and severely injured another one. And,
7:29
S1: you know, many listeners will remember that there was this
7:32
S1: massive manhunt said to be Australia's biggest in history. But
7:36
S1: we know it took seven months for police to find him.
7:39
S1: So do we know now, or did you find out
7:41
S1: much about how he was actually able to evade police
7:45
S1: for so long? Because it seems like some of the
7:46
S1: locals told you that at times, it felt like half
7:49
S1: the state's police force were looking for this man.
7:53
S2: Yeah. One of the things I really wanted to try
7:55
S2: to understand was how you would survive out here in
7:59
S2: Bush like this. I mean, it's wet, which means, you know,
8:02
S2: water won't be as much of a problem, but it
8:04
S2: is really difficult terrain. Desi, though, was a really well
8:08
S2: known bushman. He was actually part of an Australian prepper community.
8:13
S2: So these are the people sort of prepping for disaster,
8:16
S2: whether it's, you know, asteroid collision, whether it's civil war,
8:20
S2: whether it's foreign invasion. And Desi, you know, some of
8:24
S2: his mates that they recalled very well him pointing out
8:27
S2: his various stashes on the mountain, this sort of feeder
8:31
S2: trails that if you were moving, you would make use of.
8:36
S2: But of course, police also know he had help on
8:39
S2: the run, and the tip off that eventually led to
8:42
S2: the cops finding him in this little shipping container up
8:47
S2: at the border. And he. He also travelled over the
8:49
S2: border into New South Wales while he was on the run.
8:52
S2: That came from someone close to him, someone who eventually
8:55
S2: turned on him as we discovered the day he was
8:58
S2: shot dead. So certainly he had help. It wasn't all
9:02
S2: him just living rough in the bush.
9:04
S1: And now you actually tried to enter the property. This
9:07
S1: is where Desi Freeman actually was living on this farm.
9:10
S1: And yeah, not easy for you to access that numerous
9:13
S1: warning signs, to say the least. Can you just tell us,
9:15
S1: I guess, a bit about what was going on in
9:16
S1: that property?
9:18
S2: Yes. So the remote property where the Freemans were living
9:22
S2: before the shooting, you can see it from the hills
9:24
S2: actually near the airport, but it's really easy to miss
9:27
S2: the turn off. It's down this narrow gravel track. You
9:30
S2: kind of drive through this tunnel of forest. There's this
9:32
S2: kind of almost beautiful kind of fairy tale forest feeling here.
9:37
S2: It's like it's like an enchanted forest. But when the
9:40
S2: sky darkens, it does feel a bit eerie. And at
9:42
S2: the end, there's a gate. And the gate has a
9:45
S2: lot of handwritten cardboard signs on it. Warning, you know,
9:48
S2: exclusion zone trespassers will be penalized $10,000. And Freeman was
9:55
S2: living here with a little community, we're told, but it's
9:59
S2: a property owned by locals Andrew and Rebecca Swift, and
10:04
S2: they still live there. And locals tell me they're really
10:06
S2: well liked. They're very private. They're known for their anti-government views,
10:11
S2: particularly Rebecca, but they're well liked in town. They're. Chestnut
10:15
S2: hummus is a favorite at the local farmers market. They
10:18
S2: have a chestnut farm there, and parts of it are
10:21
S2: this really beautiful. I, I like sort of farm community lifestyle.
10:26
S2: But also Freeman had himself made a lot of, I guess,
10:30
S2: amendments to the property. One of them was the gate,
10:33
S2: but also these solar powered cameras all throughout the trees,
10:37
S2: everywhere he lived, we're told he had issues with his neighbors.
10:41
S2: He had confrontations also with landlords. He would construct these
10:45
S2: elaborate hides from which to watch his neighbors. He'd strap
10:49
S2: cameras to his chest. He had this camo suit he'd
10:52
S2: run around in, which made him look like Chewbacca from
10:54
S2: Star Wars. And there were several occasions where child services
10:59
S2: and police did surround that property, and that makeshift bus
11:03
S2: where he was living before the shooting, out of concern
11:06
S2: for the Freeman kids because they were being home schooled
11:09
S2: and they were looking to check on them. And that
11:12
S2: approach was picked up by Freeman's ring of CCTV. And
11:16
S2: this sort of history of confrontation he had with police
11:19
S2: was really starting to escalate in in the years and
11:23
S2: particularly the weeks and months before this happened. I mean,
11:27
S2: he became a bit infamous around the time of Covid
11:30
S2: because he was involved in this push to try and
11:33
S2: prosecute then Premier Daniel Andrews. He tried to arrest a
11:37
S2: local magistrate, and he was always at these sort of
11:41
S2: anti-lockdown protests. But now that the cops have started investigating
11:45
S2: him over child sexual abuse allegations, he had been talking to,
11:50
S2: to his friends and his family about really feeling things
11:54
S2: closing in on him. And unfortunately, we learnt that his
11:57
S2: brother and his wife had finally convinced him to go
12:00
S2: and see a psychologist in the days and weeks before
12:04
S2: the shooting, and he actually had an appointment booked that day,
12:08
S2: but he never made it.
12:11
S1: After the break.
12:13
S2: After dark, there's sort of a two way network that
12:16
S2: it's often just used for people on the road, but
12:18
S2: it's also used by a lot of people in this
12:21
S2: prepper community to communicate.
12:31
S1: And I wanted to ask you one other incredibly interesting
12:34
S1: detail from your feature about this underground network. I guess
12:37
S1: that Desi Freeman was a part of this had to
12:40
S1: do with your interview with one of the men in
12:42
S1: this community. He's an ex bikie. This is Steven Mallet,
12:45
S1: and he had something really interesting to tell you about,
12:48
S1: I guess, this two way radio system that operated within
12:51
S1: the community. So can you tell us a bit about
12:53
S1: how that operated and what it was used for?
12:56
S2: Yeah, so I didn't realize that After Dark. Steve. Steve
13:00
S2: was great. He sort of explained to me a little
13:02
S2: bit about this prepper group that freedom was part of. And,
13:06
S2: you know, a lot of these people are just training
13:08
S2: for sort of regular survival out in the wilderness, where
13:11
S2: they go out a lot hunting and, and fishing and,
13:14
S2: and hiking. But after dark, there's sort of a two
13:18
S2: way network that it's often just used for people on
13:21
S2: the road. Maybe they've come to grief on these twisty
13:23
S2: alpine roads. They're radioing for some help, but it's also
13:27
S2: used by a lot of people in this community to communicate.
13:30
S2: And Steve himself has since got to know and met
13:34
S2: a lot of these characters. And one of them was
13:36
S2: Desi Freeman. So when Freeman went on the run, Steve
13:40
S2: suddenly found a whole squad of tactical cops at his door.
13:43
S2: He was one of the first people raided. Now he
13:45
S2: was cleared of involvement in helping Desi. But he was
13:49
S2: sort of explaining to me, you know, like he could
13:51
S2: have just jumped over his back fence. The forest is
13:55
S2: right there. And from there, he said he would have
13:57
S2: just kept moving. So he would have packed light. He
14:00
S2: would have moved through the pine plantations, the wineries, stealing
14:04
S2: fruit off the trees, maybe going up the river and kayaking.
14:07
S2: And these are all sort of leading theories for maybe
14:10
S2: how Desi did move around or or maybe even how
14:14
S2: Desi met up with someone who later helped him get
14:17
S2: out of the area. But a lot of locals said
14:20
S2: to me, I mean, Steve wasn't the only one. They
14:21
S2: said in all their months of searching, the cops really
14:25
S2: still only scratched the surface of that forest because there's
14:28
S2: hidden waterfalls, there's hidden huts, there's mineshafts. They searched a
14:33
S2: lot of them, but it really is sort of treacherous terrain.
14:36
S2: And unless you know it intimately, it's quite easy to
14:40
S2: lose someone out there.
14:41
S1: Which is really interesting because one of the most striking
14:44
S1: points of the interview that you had with Stephen Mallett,
14:46
S1: this Ex-biker, who's part of this underground network, is he said,
14:49
S1: you know, of the way that he could have just
14:51
S1: sort of escaped into the bush behind. He said, quote,
14:53
S1: they'd never find you. Which of course, leads us to
14:56
S1: this massive question that overhangs this entire ordeal, which is,
15:00
S1: of course, how did Desi Freeman escape and who helped him? That's,
15:05
S1: of course, all yet to be answered. So will it
15:07
S1: ever be answered.
15:09
S3: Well, I think police.
15:11
S2: Are certainly starting to close in. So remember before they
15:16
S2: got that surprise tip off from someone close to Freeman
15:19
S2: that he was actually alive and he was up at
15:22
S2: the border near New South Wales, they actually thought he
15:24
S2: was dead. And then this intelligence came in, took them
15:28
S2: to the border. And from there we've seen a whole
15:31
S2: bunch of raids on associates of Freeman. They keep arresting
15:34
S2: people and releasing people. So it will be interesting to
15:38
S2: see if they do finally file charges. But certainly police
15:41
S2: believe he had help. They don't think it was just
15:44
S2: him with his bug out bag alone in the bush
15:46
S2: that entire time. So I think there's a bit more
15:49
S2: to go. But the the wiretaps, the surveillance of that
15:52
S2: area was incredibly difficult. It wasn't just the manhunt that
15:56
S2: presented challenges. I mean, surveilling properties of this size. They
16:00
S2: had little drones buzzing around after dark, but the locals
16:03
S2: knew about it. The locals also knew they were tapping
16:05
S2: the phones, and those phone lines were surprisingly quiet, so
16:10
S2: there's a bit yet to to go on. But of
16:12
S2: course when they raid someone they can seize their phone.
16:15
S2: So the inquest though is still to happen. And that
16:19
S2: will look into both the shooting on August 26th that
16:22
S2: claimed the lives of those two cops and injured another.
16:26
S2: But also it will look at the shootout with Desi,
16:30
S2: so hopefully that'll give a bit more answers, particularly for
16:33
S2: the families. I know a lot of those families. They
16:35
S2: went along to some of the early hearings, a lot
16:38
S2: of Neil Thompson, he's known as Tommo. His cop mates
16:42
S2: were up the back with his sisters and his family
16:45
S2: listening to every word. And they were. One thing that
16:49
S2: we do know from that is that when those cops
16:53
S2: went there to serve that warrant on Desi Freeman, they
16:55
S2: didn't know what they were walking into. I mean, I've
16:58
S2: spoken to cops that were there that day. They didn't
17:00
S2: realise he had a gun. So certainly there's a bit
17:04
S2: more to come out there in how it all unfolded.
17:08
S2: But we we do know that, you know, Desi shot
17:11
S2: those two cops as they were trying to enter the bus.
17:14
S4: And I want to ask you a question.
17:15
S1: About the way Desi Freeman is seen now, because there
17:18
S1: there is a whole group of people who really do
17:20
S1: idolize and romanticize him. So I guess, do you find
17:23
S1: that shocking at all, given that, of course, he did
17:26
S1: murder these two police officers. One, Neil Thompson was on
17:29
S1: the very cusp of retiring. I think that might have
17:31
S1: been his last week at work the day of the shootout.
17:34
S1: Another Vadim you've spoken about, he was at the very
17:37
S1: beginning of his career. And of course Desi Freeman was
17:40
S1: wanted for questioning over serious child abuse allegations. So why
17:44
S1: do people ignore that or, you know, still believe he's
17:47
S1: a hero?
17:49
S2: Yes, I did find it shocking, particularly when I heard
17:54
S2: such sympathy sort of still alive in the local community,
17:57
S2: because that was also the local community of, of a
18:00
S2: lot of the cops that were involved in that. And,
18:03
S2: and the pain of, of what that day of violence
18:05
S2: has left behind is so visceral in the community as well.
18:10
S2: It was surprising to see how many people still have
18:13
S2: sympathies for for Desi Freeman, but I guess his story
18:17
S2: does have all the makings of a good conspiracy theory.
18:20
S2: You know, he vanished like a ghost into the forest.
18:23
S2: You probably remember there were those AI generated folk songs
18:28
S2: flying around the internet, calling him the Ghost of Mount Buffalo.
18:31
S2: And given that it is Kelly Country, as everyone likes
18:34
S2: to remind me, this idea of the outlaw out there
18:38
S2: thumbing his nose to authorities, turning on the government, the
18:41
S2: rise of sovereign citizen ideas that we saw really take
18:45
S2: hold during the pandemic, it's now sort of caught fire
18:48
S2: in these communities. And as Josh Russ, who he's an
18:53
S2: extremism expert and he gave expert testimony during the inquest
18:58
S2: for the 2022 shootings in Willoughby in Queensland, you might
19:03
S2: remember that was when a family of conspiracy theorists shot
19:08
S2: dead two cops and a neighbour who would come then
19:11
S2: to just perform a routine missing persons check. But the um,
19:16
S2: the trains, like Freeman, saw cops as devils and that
19:20
S2: descended into a really awful day of violence. Josh Rose
19:24
S2: gave evidence into that inquiry, and he was telling me
19:27
S2: that out here, this kind of it's a bit of
19:30
S2: a it's a weird country because you sort of have
19:32
S2: this modern online phenomenon of sovereign citizens, and it collides
19:37
S2: with this old mythology of the outlaw. And so you'll
19:40
S2: find people living in these kind of off grid communities,
19:43
S2: often by choice, but also, you know, sometimes like afraid
19:46
S2: to put on their heating, afraid to use power. Whereas
19:49
S2: next door, you've got these luxury Airbnbs. And we know
19:54
S2: that the regions are still starved of services. They they
19:58
S2: really are on a bit of a critical knife's edge here,
20:02
S2: particularly for mental health support. And unfortunately, we know how
20:06
S2: close Desi came to finally getting that mental health support,
20:09
S2: but didn't get it. Some of these people understand they
20:13
S2: have been left behind. They don't have the services they deserve.
20:16
S2: And I think all of that we need to be
20:18
S2: alive to that. If we're thinking about the sovereign citizen threat,
20:21
S2: because a lot of it is a little bit about
20:23
S2: mental health. But then, of course, Freeman's image has now
20:27
S2: been sort of lionized and taken on by people that
20:30
S2: have got, you know, very nefarious intentions, such as the
20:34
S2: neo-Nazi movement. We saw his pictures spring up at far
20:37
S2: right rallies in Adelaide and elsewhere right after the shootings.
20:41
S2: So this is this is a threat as well.
20:45
S1: Well, there's so much to this story. I think it
20:47
S1: really illuminates a lot about what's happening. Perhaps not not
20:50
S1: so much underground, but sort of in hiding almost. So
20:53
S1: thank you so much, Sharon, for your time.
20:56
S2: Thank you so much, Sam.
21:08
S1: In other news today, Victoria s dental industry has slammed
21:11
S1: an election promise by Premier Ben Carroll to establish ten
21:15
S1: free public dental clinics, dubbing it a political ploy to
21:18
S1: buy votes which could blow out years long waiting lists
21:21
S1: for the state's most vulnerable patients and home sellers with
21:26
S1: a pressing reason to offload their properties like divorce, downsizing
21:30
S1: or death are propping up listing levels, while those with
21:33
S1: less urgency hold fire. As market watchers tip property prices
21:37
S1: have further to fall. You can read more at the
21:40
S1: age.com.au or smh.com.au. Today's episode was produced by Kai Wong.
21:49
S1: Our executive producer is Tammy Mills, and our podcasts are
21:52
S1: overseen by Lisa Muxworthy and Tom McKendrick. If you like
21:56
S1: our show, follow The Morning Edition and leave a review
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S1: for us on Apple or Spotify. Thanks for listening.