Latest / Best of Business / Dr Samantha Marsh: senior public health researcher at UOA on Meta and Google losing court case over social media harm

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Dr Samantha Marsh: senior public health researcher at UOA on Meta and Google losing court case over social media harm · Best of Business

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  Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from news Talks at be
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  Speaker 2: A massive trial in the US spells a bit of
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  Speaker 2: trouble for the social media giants. Meta and Google have
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  Speaker 2: been found liable for making addictive products at harm young people.
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  Speaker 2: Buy an LA jury, They've been ordered to pay six
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  Speaker 2: million dollars to a woman who says she became addicted
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  Speaker 2: to YouTube and Instagram as a child. Doctor Samantha Marsh
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  Speaker 2: is a senior public health researcher at University of Auckland
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  Speaker 2: with US high Samantha, Hi, do you think this is
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  Speaker 2: a big tobacco moment like many commentators are saying it is?
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  Speaker 3: Well, ah, yeah, one hundred percent.
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  Speaker 4: You know, they had addictive product that was causing harm
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  Speaker 4: for many years that you know they dodged, you know,
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  Speaker 4: going to trial for it, and you know they hit
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  Speaker 4: their day in the nineties. And this is what I
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  Speaker 4: think we're seeing today. This is a very historic moment
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  Speaker 4: for public health.
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  Speaker 2: Is it an inflection point because it is just yet
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  Speaker 2: another thing that we are starting to see, which I
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  Speaker 2: guess absolutely reinforces in our minds. Yes, these are the
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  Speaker 2: bad guys. They are bad actors or is it is
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  Speaker 2: it that this is this case provides a chink in
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  Speaker 2: their legal armor that and it will be used against
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  Speaker 2: them in future court cases.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think this is what is so
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  Speaker 4: important about this is that, you know, this is the
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  Speaker 4: first time that we're that you know, they've they've actually
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  Speaker 4: been taken to court, they've been found liable for their product.
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  Speaker 4: Up until now, it's all just thing about you know,
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  Speaker 4: what people post on their platforms and they can't be
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  Speaker 4: held responsible for that. But this kind of changes everything
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  Speaker 4: because we you know, what has come out of this
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  Speaker 4: is that these companies knew that they were, you know,
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  Speaker 4: designing a product to be addicted.
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  Speaker 3: They were doing that on purpose.
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  Speaker 4: They knew it was addictive, and they went ahead and
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  Speaker 4: did it anyway, and then they promoted it to children.
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  Speaker 2: But so what I mean, so here's the devil's advocates.
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  Speaker 2: So what ten million New Zealand dollars pay out to
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  Speaker 2: this woman is nothing. These guys are squillionaires. It doesn't
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  Speaker 2: even touch the sides.
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  Speaker 3: So this was actually the second case of the week.
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  Speaker 4: So the day before in New Mexico, Meta was ordered
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  Speaker 4: to pay three hundred and seventy five million dollars and
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  Speaker 4: a separate lawsuit.
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  Speaker 3: Which is it.
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  Speaker 4: You know, it's quite a sizable amount of money. And
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  Speaker 4: that was because they misled consumers about the safety of
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  Speaker 4: their platform, you know, knowing the harming kids mental health
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  Speaker 4: and concealing child exploitation on their platforms. But I think,
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  Speaker 4: you know, this is just the first case.
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  Speaker 3: Of many cases. You know, it was it's a Bellweather case.
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  Speaker 4: So there's thousands of cases waiting in the wings now
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  Speaker 4: to you know. And and what I think we really
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  Speaker 4: hope is this is going to make the companies actually
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  Speaker 4: change their product, you know, make meaningful changes to their platform.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, so if we use the big tobacco analogy,
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  Speaker 2: then it's like asking it's like asking to big tobacco
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  Speaker 2: to make the cities less addictive. They don't do that.
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  Speaker 2: So is Meta actually going to do that or they
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  Speaker 2: will listen, adapt and hide it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think this is exactly the problem.
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  Speaker 4: And that's why when you know, people are saying where
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  Speaker 4: we should continue to let young children or you know,
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  Speaker 4: thirteen year olds or whatever access these platforms, We're just
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  Speaker 4: going to make them safer. And it's like, well, are
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  Speaker 4: they going to make you know, you can, as I've
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  Speaker 4: always say, you can go and get cigarettes.
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  Speaker 3: They're addictive and they.
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  Speaker 4: Can kill you, you can still buy them because it's
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  Speaker 4: you know, it's a very profitable product. And so I
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  Speaker 4: don't think that they will make meaningful changes to their platforms.
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  Speaker 3: Because it's not just about the algorithm.
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  Speaker 4: It's not just about content or predators, you know, it's
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  Speaker 4: the whole way the product is designed, that is social media.
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  Speaker 4: So if you change it to make it, you know,
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  Speaker 4: not harmful to young people, it's not a profitable product anymore,
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  Speaker 4: which is why, you know, one of the things is
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  Speaker 4: we need age restrictions now.
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  Speaker 2: I mean, Messa's share price went up today on the
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  Speaker 2: back of it. So did Alphabets, which is the parent
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  Speaker 2: company of Google. How do we explain that.
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  Speaker 4: I can't explain that. I'm not that's not my area. Sorry,
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  Speaker 4: I can't, you know, I don't. I can't explain why.
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  Speaker 2: Because with the logical thing, I mean, no, fair enough,
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  Speaker 2: it's not your era. But the logical thing is the
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  Speaker 2: shareholders looked at it that they thought, oh, that's not
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  Speaker 2: that bad that court ruling. Maybe they're just judging it
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  Speaker 2: on the damages, the payout, and they've just gone, no problem,
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  Speaker 2: and they've actually put more.
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  Speaker 4: In the business, perhaps because it wasn't you know, for
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  Speaker 4: that single case, but you know, the one the day before.
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  Speaker 4: And you know, I don't know how quick the market
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  Speaker 4: would respond to this, but I see it as a
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  Speaker 4: huge as a huge thing. And you know, we had
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  Speaker 4: TikTok and snap who owns Snapchat. They they didn't even
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  Speaker 4: go to trial because they you know, we assume that
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  Speaker 4: they thought that they they didn't want this stuff to
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  Speaker 4: come out that has come out in these trials, and
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  Speaker 4: you know, some of the stuff that has come out
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  Speaker 4: has been so damning, even to people like me who
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  Speaker 4: have been very vocal, you know, very vocal critic of
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  Speaker 4: these companies.
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  Speaker 3: I've been shocked by what they've said that they've been doing.
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  Speaker 2: Now, Samanth that if we accept that this is the
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  Speaker 2: big tobacco moment, how does it go from here? What
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  Speaker 2: is the thing that makes it that takes us to
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  Speaker 2: the big takes big tech to where big tobacco is today.
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  Speaker 4: Well, I mean, as I said, I'd like to see
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  Speaker 4: them make meaningful changes to their products, but I think
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  Speaker 4: the most important thing would be a fundamental shift really
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  Speaker 4: in how society is approaching new technologies that are you know,
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  Speaker 4: consumer technologies, you know, thinking about AI now that's coming out,
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  Speaker 4: particularly those technologies that we're giving kids because they you know,
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  Speaker 4: the burden of proof has got to shift, and that's
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  Speaker 4: what I would hope would come out of this, because
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  Speaker 4: these companies should be required to demonstrate safety for their
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  Speaker 4: products before their products reach young children, not years later
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  Speaker 4: in a courtroom like you know it has just played out.
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  Speaker 2: Hey, thank you, Samantha. Appreciate your time and your expertise
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  Speaker 2: at Doctor Samantha Marsh, Senior public health researcher at the
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  Speaker 2: University of Auckland.
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