Latest / Be A Global Citizen! / 202. GC Talks with Emma Sherbine: Bridging the Digital Divide in Sub Saharan Africa

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202. GC Talks with Emma Sherbine: Bridging the Digital Divide in Sub Saharan Africa · Be A Global Citizen!

0:05
Hi there, and welcome to Be a Global Citizen, the podcast that
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explores the concept of global citizenship through the lens of
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value creating education. My name is Scott Bauer and I'm
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Ahsoka, researcher and educator. I hope you find the discussion,
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stories and insights on this podcast to be valuable and
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inspiring as we strive to become global citizens who are
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committed to living a contributive life.
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Enjoy. Hello, my name is Emma and thank
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you so much for inviting me to partake in this podcast.
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I am super excited because it is perhaps my favorite topic which
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is global citizenship. But just to give some context of
0:48
who I am, I feel like I have worn a lot of different hats.
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I am, you know, born and raised here in the US and grew up in
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New Jersey. I went to Rutgers University,
1:01
where after exploring a lot of different pathways and
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interests, I ended up with a degree in IT.
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And something that had happened during my undergraduate course
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that really shaped a lot of my interest in who I am is the fact
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that Ruffers is a very diverse campus and there are people from
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all over the world. And that really piqued my
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curiosity about just different countries and different people
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all over the world. And so after I graduated with
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this degree in IT and I began working in the startup industry
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with helping with digital marketing services primarily, I
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realized that I hated it. It was not for me.
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And so I did something that my family and friends thought was
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absolutely wild, which is that I quit and decided that I was
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going to move over to a country I'd never been to before.
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And then I was going to become an English teacher.
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And so I ended up in South Korea.
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That's the end of 2019. And if we all know how the
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timeline goes for historical events, this was right before
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the COVID tandem. And I just remember moving to
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this new country and I'm assimilating and getting used to
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things. And then all of a sudden they, I
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told us that, oh, by the way, there's this new virus and you
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know, it'll probably just go away.
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And we all know that it's not what happened because it was
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what we know now as the COVID pandemic.
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But during this time, I saw a very critical point of the
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importance of the intersection of technology and education
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because we had to move to distance learning.
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And I saw that the schools and teachers I worked with were not
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prepared for this, as well as the students that I had were
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also not prepared for this. And I just said this epiphany
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that Oh my gosh, the world, like the world will never be the
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same. And this is just something that
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is, is so important that at this time and after a few years of
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teaching, I decided I wanted to get a master's and I wanted to
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focus on education, but not just any education.
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I really wanted a internationally focused
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education and especially like focusing on that intersection of
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tech and, and after I had got accepted into the graduate
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program I wanted to go to, which was at Soka University of
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America, and it was a master's. I was so excited in educational
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leadership and societal change. I did a lot of traveling and I
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did a lot of traveling predominantly in Southeast Asia.
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I'd gone to several countries there and I really saw how
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devastated communities were, and especially communities that live
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with a great digital divide and especially like in the rural
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areas. And that added an additional
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shift that I really needed to focus on where there is the
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largest digital divide. And I also noticed that a lot of
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these countries also have the youngest populations.
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So Fast forward a little bit more for when I started my
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master's program and through a professor I have been introduced
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to this wonderful, incredible person named Tokako Mino who was
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founding the first liberal arts university in Uganda.
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And going into this program, I knew from this epiphany I had
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while traveling that I did want to focus on the continent of
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sub-Saharan Africa because it is the continent that does face the
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greatest challenges with the digital divide.
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But also the population is 70% of the continents population is
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under the age of 30 and the population of the continent is
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going to quadruple by the end of this century.
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So it's going to be more than 4 billion people.
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While other continents are either declining in population
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like North America or Europe and stagnating like in Asia.
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So I really saw this is where the future is and I ended up
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doing an internship and my thesis research in Uganda.
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And it was the first time I had ever been to any African
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country. And of course I had been reading
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a lot of it about it and looking at the data and looking at the
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research. But you know what, what people
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say over there is that you, you can't just read or watch videos
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about Africa like you, you have to go physically over there.
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And my God, just being there for a month and 1/2 approximately
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just open my eyes to so many things.
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And I just realized, my gosh, basically just being there for
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such a short time and then going back to California to write a
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thesis about what I had researched and done really isn't
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sufficient enough for really understanding things over there.
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And I have actually had the opportunity and privilege to
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participate a lot as a youth representative in the UN to talk
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about my findings and really to just talk about what I felt is a
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very urgent situation to really bridge these gaps and try to
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close them as much as we can and try to create more inclusive
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policies for expanding technology and developing
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technology as well as focusing on youth.
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But ultimately, I came to the point where I need on the ground
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experience. So this is what led me to decide
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that the Peace Corps felt perfect for this, because what
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was most attractive to me about the Peace Corps is that you
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aren't living in the capital. You're not, you know, in, in the
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luxury compounds and, and working with the embassy or
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you're not working with like the UN and other like international
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organizations. You're going to be put in the
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booms like you are going to be put in the rural areas and
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you're really going to assimilate with the local
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people. You're going to learn the
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language, you're going to learn more about the customs and way
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of life. And this is exactly what I
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wanted because this is where I feel a lot of the challenges lie
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is really understanding the differences and from there
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having that experience to then be able to come up with the
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appropriate solutions. And I my country of service was
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Liberia. And Liberia, for those who may
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not know, is a small W African country, and it is considered
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like the oldest modern Republic in Africa.
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I'm really oversimplifying things here.
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The country was settled by the American Colonization Society,
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and then it became independent in 1847.
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So there's a very unique history there unlike any other country,
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not even just in Africa, but the world of having that kind of
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connection between America and this country.
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And this country had a decade long series of civil wars and
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has also faced challenges like with Ebola and COVID.
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And so this is a country that has numerous societal,
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political, health, infrastructure challenges.
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And but what was amazing about Liberia is it's absolutely
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nothing like how it was depicted in the documentaries and like
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the books and everything that I had read, which just focusing on
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the war and Ebola, the people there are just some of the
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kindest people I've ever met. And I really just learned a lot
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about community and I really learned of, I learned way more
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about human connection than I've ever learn from living in the US
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or in Korea. And that whole experience was,
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it was amazing. It was transformative.
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I, well, I served as a computer instructor as well as like I had
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to develop like the curriculum. And I also did digital outreach
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and resource mobilization for a vocational training center.
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And so I was also wearing a lot of different hats while I was
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over there. But I'm over simplifying things
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as of now. But I did conclude my service.
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But I have made the decision that I will be moving back there
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and focus actually on startup accelerators and looking to back
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and support and mentor and invest in green tech startups.
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Because I really see that through entrepreneurship and
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through innovation that this really holds the key for
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addressing a lot of the challenges that is faced over in
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this particular country. But I would say that all of
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these experiences collectively have been very transformative
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for my life and have really given me my moral compass
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pointing to North on addressing all of these different
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challenges. But above all, I feel like it is
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all rooted in in global citizenship and just focusing on
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that interconnectivity. So I would say in a in a brief
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nutshell, that's right now and and what I do.
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Thank you so much, Emma, and and I'm just so happy that you're
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able to to make this time to, to join me on the the podcast.
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And it's just so inspiring to to hear about your journey.
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The word bold kept coming up in my head terms of like these
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actions that you made of like deciding to to move to South
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Korea initially, right? I mean, and then the pandemic
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and kind of going through your own process of like, well, how
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am I to make sense of this understanding kind of the wider
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ramifications of like a global lockdown on education on younger
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populations. And then also these kind of
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different like bubbles, like the digital, kind of like, you know,
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ecosystems that they are existing and they're expanding.
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And how do we create value through that?
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We, we connected to Sokie University of America.
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That's where we got to, to, to spend some time.
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You were doing your master's program.
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I was, I was working as one of the admin And it was, you know,
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it was, it was very evident from meeting you that you were like a
11:44
woman on a mission. You were like, I got places to
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be. I got to go study for that.
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I got to go talk to this person and and, you know, now like that
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I'm learning more about your journey, kind of like the, you
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know, you shared like this kind of almost like an outline.
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I was like, these are kind of the major milestones of, of what
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I've done so far. Yeah, I'm definitely seeing
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these kind of like connections with like, you know, you
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mentioned the intersection of technology and education, but
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then, you know, travel and like learning from and with, you
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know, different cultures and the people from those cultures is,
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you know, very core to like kind of what gets you passionate
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about the work that you're doing right, that connection.
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And yeah. And then this, this journey of
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yours, the most recent chapters being in, in, you know, Uganda,
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like sub-Saharan Africa. Yeah, I, I've never been, you
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know, to the continent of Africa, But, you know, I, I'm
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just like I, I want to, I want to learn more from you about,
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you know, not just the, you know, evident struggles and
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challenges that are there and, you know, and are there for many
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reasons. But I think, you know, you're
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highlighting the positive, you know, like the warm people, like
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kindness, you know, the innovation that the fresh
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energy, how youthful they are. I mean, I think these are
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conversations that really need to be lifted, you know, way, way
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up high because change is happening.
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And and it just sounds like, you know, you you're right there
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with them. And there's going to be a lot of
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it, you know, like the century is kind of like this this
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position for them to really like take leaps and bounds.
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And yeah, and I think that, you know, your efforts are going to
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be very much like felt they're appreciated and you know, again,
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bold, right, because you're like, I'm going to go back right
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after having done a lot of work in Uganda and then Liberia.
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And yeah, and I I the this word digital divide or the term
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digital divide came up as well that I'm very curious to learn
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more about. But you know, so much kind of
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was, was put out there and you know, I wanted to kind of like,
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maybe if it's possible rewind the clock just a little bit more
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because, you know, you this the initial decision to kind of go
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abroad it, it can be quite shocking, right?
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That cultural shock has brought up a lot.
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And, and so I wanted to ask, when you made your decision to
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go to South Korea, maybe you could you kind of like walk us
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through like what that experience initially was like?
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Because it just seems like there's a succession of
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different shocks from one country to the next to the next.
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But maybe just like when it was like kind of, you know, very
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early on, what was that like and how did you cope with that?
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Yeah, definitely. And it is really interesting
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because for my Lyft experiences, South Korea is on one end of the
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spectrum and then Liberia is in a completely different spectrum.
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I would say it's so I, I had just a very different mindset
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from the one that I have now where I didn't believe that it
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was possible for me to travel or to live abroad.
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I had always thought that, oh, you have to be really, really
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rich or you have to know somebody or you have to speak
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all these languages or you, you have to know this or know that.
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I, I, because even I had thought about wanting to study abroad
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while I was in university. And at that time I couldn't
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afford it because I was just looking at like the expense of
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the loans. You know, it's not like soaking
15:22
university where it's like built into the tuition and, and for
15:28
the curriculum, other universities, that's just not
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the case. But I, I actually decided to try
15:38
to move over to South Korea when I had taken a vacation from my
15:42
startup job. And I just, I just on a whim
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decided, you know what, I have a bucket list of wanting to
15:49
travel. I want to do it.
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I'm first going to go to Thailand and then I'm going to
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go to Japan because these are places I really, really wanted
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to go. And I just remember while I was
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over there, especially in Japan, where I met foreigners who were
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not traveling there, they were living there.
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And I just thought, what do you have or what do you have to do
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to be able to move over here and get a job?
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And that's where I found out about English teaching.
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And I thought you have to have an education degree.
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And I studied it. I didn't do that.
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And people said no, like you can actually get a visa if you have
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a bachelor's degree and then you know, and you can get like a
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TOEFL certificate. And then you can go online and
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you can find a recruiter that will match you with a school or
16:35
job over there. And then they'll move you over
16:38
here. And at first I thought this was
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just a complete scam. And it wasn't because I did go
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online and I did find a recruiter and I felt that South
16:47
Korea was the best match. I mean, it had great benefits.
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But also from university, I did a Taekwondo club.
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I was in the Taekwondo club. And so I had this curiosity
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about South Korea and its history and so much so I just
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decided that was the country for me.
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And I found like that whole process of working with a
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recruiter just very convenient. It was very, very like
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everything was well set up. It was actually much easier than
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I thought to get the visa and all that and like to to get over
17:20
there. And what's nice about South
17:22
Korea as well is they take care of your housing for you with the
17:27
recruiter and the school. Otherwise that would for a
17:31
foreigner who doesn't have the language that would have been
17:34
completely overwhelming, which I have heard from those who live
17:38
and work in Japan that typically like teachers would have to find
17:42
the housing for themselves unless they're doing check,
17:44
which is the program partnered with the government.
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But anyways, moving over there, it was actually in terms of like
17:55
culture shocks or adjusting. I mean, what was quite nice is
17:59
that you've learned that there's actually a lot of things about
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South Korea that in my opinion are way better than the US is
18:06
much safer. It is much cleaner.
18:09
The infrastructure is way better.
18:12
So I found that the things that were very difficult about
18:17
getting set up in South Korea where in the beginning, and that
18:21
is you have to do a health exam Once you arrive over there and
18:26
going to a Korean hospital and having this exam with like
18:32
doctors and nurses who don't speak any English and you don't
18:35
speak any Korean, but you're just holding this form that has
18:39
like the English part with a Korean translation under it.
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And that is your needs of translation.
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That was an adjustment and like a wild experience in itself
18:50
because even how they do things in the hospital is like
18:53
completely different from over here.
18:55
Getting the bank account set up, because again, like when I first
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arrived in Korea, I didn't like read, write, speak any Koreans.
19:04
But that was helpful to find a friend who was willing to like,
19:09
help me get to the bank and help me set this up.
19:12
Having a Korean friend as well help me with the phone when
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you're there. Like getting these things set up
19:18
in the beginning is very, very difficult, especially because of
19:22
the language barrier. But then once all of this is set
19:26
up and then you know, you've got your phone ready, you have the
19:29
bank account you did like all the exams and everything else so
19:32
that you can finish your visa process.
19:35
Then like I said, you can enjoy the things about Korea that are
19:39
amazing. Like the like, I love the
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transit system, Like I love the buses and the trains.
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And I just tapped my card and then it was all good to go
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shopping was very convenient. And then once I was able to
19:52
like, Start learning how to use the app so I could get anything
19:55
and everything that I wanted delivered right to my door,
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there were just, you know, a lot of nice things to do.
20:02
And I mean, like, one thing that was really nice is there are
20:05
things that I could do in Korea I can't do here in the USI could
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go running in the park at 2:00 AM with headphones in.
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I would never do that in the US, but over there I could.
20:16
But on the other hand, there were things that could be
20:21
challenging. I mean, first and foremost was
20:23
the pandemic. The pandemic I it was hard for
20:26
anyone, anywhere in the world. But Korea is it's a homogeneous
20:32
society and it's not one that is like the US where it really
20:38
embraces diversity. It's kind of like you are either
20:42
Korean or foreigner. And like those are the 2 main
20:45
categories. And foreigners were not looked
20:49
at in a good light during the pandemic.
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From what I had been seeing like in the news and media, it was
20:56
thought that like the foreigners were the ones bringing in COVID
20:59
and we were the ones spreading it.
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So I do have memories, especially in the beginning of
21:04
the pandemic that like people would move away from me on the
21:07
bus and subway. They would like print these
21:11
headlines or these things would circulate the media that it's in
21:15
one and it's in one is a very like foreigner centric district
21:20
in Seoul in Korea. Like foreigners were gathering
21:23
there and then leaving it to you on and spreading COVID to
21:26
everyone. So there were a lot of
21:29
challenges and restrictions with that because like the directors
21:33
at my school did not want me to go anywhere apart from work and
21:37
home. That's it.
21:38
Like I can't do anything else. And, and it was, yeah, I mean,
21:42
at times it was, it was just very, very difficult and
21:45
stressful. And I felt like also it was
21:48
difficult to make friends. And I mean, this is largely on
21:53
my part because I didn't know the language and the people I
21:58
was lending to being friends with would be Koreans who spoke
22:01
English. But I also felt like I valued
22:04
the friendships more than they did because I would make a
22:08
friend and, you know, we would be friends for a couple of
22:10
months and then they would ghost me, and then that was it.
22:14
So I had that happen several times with Koreans.
22:18
But for the foreigners, the foreigners were in the same boat
22:22
that I was, that we had left our whole world's behind in our home
22:26
countries and that everything in this country was our everything,
22:30
including our friendship. So I felt like we banded
22:33
together a lot more, especially because of the pandemic, and
22:37
that we felt like we were, I want to say, targeted so much.
22:42
But I felt like we had like kind of this trauma bomb where we
22:47
felt like we were being more discriminated against or like we
22:51
had extra challenges because we were alone together in this
22:56
foreign country during this crazy time.
22:59
But I also felt the culture shock of the working conditions.
23:04
I, I mean, work life balance already is not that great in the
23:09
US, especially like when you talk to Europeans or something
23:12
like this, like you hear about how they get a lot of vacation.
23:16
But in Korea, my goodness you, I didn't get any vacation.
23:22
That was very, very difficult. And then we were expected to
23:26
work longer hours. And there was even a time where
23:31
our school did have to close down at the beginning of the
23:34
outbreak, and our director didn't want to refund the
23:37
parents that had paid for the tuition for that one month.
23:41
So then we were working Monday to Saturday for several months
23:46
and working extra. And there were also some
23:51
interesting practices, I'll put it that way, that my director
23:55
had that was, it was just very, very challenging.
23:59
But as a foreigner, and you can't really advocate for
24:03
yourself because first of all, your visa is tied to your job
24:09
for the person that's sponsoring you.
24:11
And then it's very difficult and expensive to get a lawyer
24:16
because, you know, in my case, I would need an English speaking
24:19
lawyer because even after I had learned some Korean, it wasn't
24:22
sufficient enough for me to like be working on a case.
24:24
But you're very limited in your rights as a foreigner for unfair
24:30
working conditions. And that was the point that I'd
24:34
gotten to after a couple of years of being an English
24:36
teacher, is the conditions and the way that we were treated was
24:40
not so great. And there's not a lot of room
24:43
for growth as as a career. I know foreigners that have been
24:47
there for nearly ten years and like, you know, their salary and
24:51
their position is exactly the same, but they're happy.
24:54
But for me, I felt as like I had shared once I had this epiphany
24:59
that I wanted more than that. I wanted I had like a vision for
25:03
what I had wanted to do in the world.
25:05
And I thought like the insight and experience that I had wanted
25:08
to get from Korea, but I long term, I couldn't really see
25:13
myself living there. I would love to visit Korea
25:17
again. I absolutely love the country.
25:19
But working and living there, I just felt like the work, like
25:23
balance wasn't too great. And I didn't really feel like I
25:26
was able to develop meaningful relationships with having so
25:31
many Koreans coming and going. And then also foreigners would
25:35
keep coming and going. So even the great friends I had
25:37
made had left. So I felt like it was a great
25:42
and insightful tractor out of my life and it gave me so many
25:46
insights to so many different things.
25:48
But I definitely stand by the decision I have made where I
25:53
knew it was trying to move on. But I will forever be grateful
25:57
for that experience in my life of.
26:00
Course no, it sounds like such rich experience, like you said.
26:03
And I'm again, you know, it's impressive when at the beginning
26:08
you had this decisiveness of like, Hey, I want to travel.
26:11
I want to go see this place and just decide to to make it work
26:15
to see that possibility and take it.
26:17
And then also to recognize after a period of time that this
26:22
chapter is coming to a close and I'm going to, you know, go on to
26:26
the next big, the next, you know, greatest thing, which, you
26:29
know, in your case was deciding to go and do graduate studies
26:33
back in the US. And you know, you shared, I, I
26:36
appreciate you sharing like the positive stuff 1st and then
26:38
recognizing that like it's not all only just, you know,
26:41
positive and like everything's great.
26:43
Like it's like living my best K drama life, you know, here.
26:47
But but there's also some really important considerations as far
26:51
as like how you maintain that work life balance, like you
26:55
said, how do you have fulfilling and meaningful relationships and
27:00
friendships being abroad and, you know, constantly, you know,
27:05
taking note of differences, right, that are, are evident in
27:09
the culture. You know, you said that's more
27:12
homogeneous and there's kind of this sense of like you're either
27:15
this way or you're not and that's it.
27:18
But, you know, having, you know, experienced that yourself, you
27:22
know, those lived experiences are so important.
27:25
And I think also like kind of inform, you know, like your
27:28
wider like world perspective, your worldview.
27:32
And so it sounds like, you know, definitely it, it kind of
27:35
expanded, you know, a lot during that time.
27:38
But you know, then you decided to, to continue to push that,
27:42
right? Not just the, I would say like
27:45
for through your graduate studies, you probably, you know,
27:49
while it was back in the US, there was a great diversity
27:51
there as well in terms of like meeting people from different
27:54
parts of the world and then as well as like the opportunities
27:57
to then travel to new parts of the, of the world.
28:01
I'm curious, like the university itself, it's, it's, it promotes
28:07
global citizenship, right? It's literally in the mission of
28:10
of the university. Is that what initially drew you
28:14
to apply there? And was this idea of global
28:17
citizenship like kind of, you know, already planted in your
28:21
your head as far as like maybe, you know, when you were back at
28:24
Rutgers or when you were in Korea?
28:26
I'm just kind of curious as far as like, how like solidified was
28:29
that understanding for yourself? Like was it yeah, brand new or
28:34
was it just kind of developing? That is amazing.
28:38
And thank you so much for that question because it's, it's
28:43
really, it's really interesting because when I even think about
28:47
the first time that I was really aware of quote UN quote, the
28:52
term global citizenship, I really feel like that solidified
28:57
at SOCA. And that was because, of course,
29:00
we know Soca's mission statement, right, which is to
29:05
foster a steady stream of global citizens that are committed to
29:09
living a contributive life. And I had never really heard of
29:13
it put in that way before. I had heard of people,
29:17
especially people who travel a lot.
29:19
They describe themselves citizens of the world.
29:21
But really that is what drew me to SOCA is I wanted that
29:25
international focus when I had been, I have been looking at
29:28
other graduate schools focused on education.
29:32
I had an amazing colleague in Korea who was from South Africa.
29:37
So I actually looked at roads and I looked at University of
29:42
South Africa and universities in Cape Town.
29:45
I looked at ones in the UKI was looking at different ones around
29:49
London and other grad schools that I looked at too.
29:52
We're in New York City. I just felt like I'm a city
29:54
girl. I need to be in a city.
29:57
So those were also the places that I was looking at.
29:59
But what I didn't like is that these graduate programs didn't
30:03
have that international focus. Like the American universities
30:08
were focused. Basically, it was more of a
30:10
program so that you could be certified to teach in public
30:15
education systems. And that was also the case for
30:18
the UK and South Africa. And that's not what I wanted.
30:21
But when I saw SOCA and I saw that mission statement and even
30:26
the statistics that it's 50 to 60% international students and
30:32
that we for the graduate program, they had the summer
30:37
research project where you do get funding so that you can go
30:42
and use that for your travel research.
30:45
And I thought, that is amazing because I know that I don't want
30:48
to do my research in the US, I'm going to go somewhere else in
30:51
the world and I want to have that support.
30:54
And I had looked at past cohorts of the Graduate School and then
30:58
actually went when I had been accepted, I just knew this is
31:03
it. Like I knew that I have to go to
31:06
this program. This is really, really what I
31:09
want. And I even remember when I
31:10
finally got to meet and know my cohort members, I was so
31:16
delighted with the fact that I was the only American.
31:19
I really was because we did, members of my cohort were coming
31:24
from Taiwan, Japan, and then later I found out Kenya and
31:28
Ghana. And I was so excited over that
31:30
because I wanted to be in a classroom where I wasn't just
31:34
hearing perspectives and opinions from Americans.
31:38
Like I've wanted to hear their perspectives and their opinions.
31:42
And that's actually what excited me the most to be in, in that
31:46
kind of environment. But I, I definitely felt that
31:52
this whole, especially the experience with South Korea
31:54
really put me in a global citizenship mindset where I
31:58
really realized, especially with the pandemic and how we all went
32:01
online and we were just communicating and sharing
32:04
information that way, that we're very interconnected.
32:08
That this pandemic also crewed because it was a global
32:12
pandemic, that we are not isolated, that it does affect
32:16
the world and we do have to come together and we do have to work
32:19
together. And then also there was just all
32:22
that value of how through social media and everything was just
32:26
became so interconnected. And yeah, that that is
32:30
ultimately what you need to Soka and and to be on this path.
32:34
And to me, incredible people like yourself where what I would
32:39
like to. Share.
32:41
When I, when I went to Soka, it was actually a breath of fresh
32:45
air because I met people like yourself who shared, oh, I had
32:49
this experience of living in Brazil and, you know, getting to
32:53
adopt that culture and line of languages.
32:55
And there were so many people at Soka that also shared stories
32:59
like this where, oh, I'm originally from here, but then I
33:03
lived and studied over here and now I'm here in the US.
33:07
And that, that is exactly the experience that I wanted.
33:09
I really did get that interconnected global
33:12
citizenship feeling. Yeah, it really does feel like
33:16
this like hub for international students who are not there
33:20
simply because, you know, they they just, I mean, like, I think
33:24
the the attraction of having that kind of community is really
33:27
powerful because it's like a mini United Nations.
33:29
But you will also find that, you know, this mission statement, as
33:32
you you pointed out, really anchors us in more of like an
33:37
altruistic kind of like goal of like what is the kind of impact
33:41
that we want to have in the world and and are we striving
33:45
towards that? Why is this kind of constant
33:47
reminder of like taking on a kind of identity as a global
33:50
citizen? Of course, you know, we have our
33:52
own like specific backgrounds, like I was born and raised in
33:55
the US, right. But then deciding like, you
33:58
know, life kind of takes us on different, you know, twists and
34:01
turns, different chapters. And like you pointed out, I was
34:04
in Brazil for like 6 years. It's not really planned, but I
34:08
felt, I felt the sense that like that's where my impact was and I
34:12
wanted to make the most of it. But you know what, whether it's
34:15
like living in South Korea for a period of time and like taking
34:18
note, notice of like the, the good, the bad, the ugly maybe.
34:23
And then same thing for myself in Brazil.
34:25
And I realized that a lot of like this, the kind of stories
34:30
or the narrative that is kind of almost like, you know, we're
34:32
indoctrinated, right? Especially if you're, you know,
34:35
like in a really small kind of town or if it's like, you know,
34:38
like, I don't know, the way in which I think we're, we're
34:41
raised, at least in the US, is that like, this is the best
34:43
country, right? Why else would you want to go
34:45
anywhere else? We're the richest country and we
34:47
would just, we just do it better because, you know, democracy,
34:50
right? Simplifying everything.
34:52
But you were pointing out that like, actually, I think it does
34:55
take a lot to like admit that actually we have a lot to learn
34:59
from other countries and cultures And, and it's OK
35:02
because, you know, what does it even mean to be the best think
35:05
ultimately when underlying all of that, the reality of our
35:08
interconnectedness and the need to really value genuine one to
35:14
one connections because I think that is like the kind of like
35:18
fuel sustenance that we need to like flourish as like a healthy
35:22
human being, I guess. Yeah.
35:26
And so you know, you, you're talking about, you know, your,
35:29
your time at the the grad program and interconnectedness
35:32
came up a lot from what you were sharing.
35:35
And I kind of wanted to ask this question that I was itching to
35:39
ask even from the beginning when you shared your initial kind of
35:42
overview. But the term digital divide came
35:46
up. And I think this is a great time
35:47
for me to now ask you like, what does that really mean?
35:51
And how does that tie into the kind of like global citizenship
35:53
and interconnectedness piece that you were studying about and
35:56
then doing field research on? Yeah, that is a great question
36:02
because it is. It's a very big issue and also
36:08
something I had even just wanted to touch on.
36:11
And then I will jump into the digital divide is I feel that I
36:16
mean, there there have been both sides of the point where
36:21
technology and our social media interconnectedness have been
36:24
good for the positive. Where with social media, we are
36:28
now actually getting to see the countries and, and people that
36:34
we previously had not been able to see because certain news
36:39
media outlets have been our gatekeeper of like what we get
36:41
to see or like what we get to know about other countries or
36:44
cultures. And then social media has been
36:47
an amazing tool. We're now like anybody could
36:49
have a platform and like anybody can show us different regions of
36:53
the world. And that's why I think just
36:56
technology is such a great tool for global citizenship and then
37:03
not having access to that or again, like with this issue of
37:06
the digital divide, like This is why I feel such an urgency for
37:10
it. But in simple terms, if I were
37:14
to just like explain what the digital divide is, is that just
37:18
means the gap of those who have access to computers, smartphones
37:27
and the Internet and, you know, those who do not.
37:30
And with this gap, that means, you know, just think about how
37:34
we're able to just easily go on social media on the Internet and
37:37
they can look up information or you can share things, or we can
37:41
know news or we can get education, all of that.
37:46
And then there are people that that don't have that.
37:49
And if I were to like explain it.
37:51
So the Internet penetration rate in the US is, is quite high.
37:56
Like more than 96% of people in the US have access to
38:01
smartphones and have access to Internet.
38:04
But then if you look at, for instance, the continent of
38:07
sub-Saharan Africa, that would be on average like 37 to 39%.
38:15
So less than half the people in the entire continent don't have
38:22
access to ready access to Internet as well as electricity.
38:27
So I just think about all the information, all of the news,
38:32
just all of the things that that people are are not included in
38:36
and that they're missing out on. And that is where that
38:41
exacerbates poverty, that exacerbates education.
38:45
What's really unfortunate to in this case, for instance, like
38:50
with the continent sub-Saharan Africa, is that they are the
38:53
most vulnerable and susceptible to climate change, yet they have
38:58
the least amount of readily available information about it.
39:03
There. For instance, in Liberia, there
39:07
is a community, it's the most densely populated community in
39:11
the capital city of Monrovia is a as what they refer to as a
39:15
slum area called West Point. And West Point.
39:19
It's right next to an ocean. And because of climate change
39:24
and like the rise of carbon emissions and, you know, ocean
39:27
warming and everything, the top though the current, the tides
39:32
have risen to and the coastline has just gotten more and more
39:36
narrow. And people live here because
39:38
this is their livelihood. There are fishermen.
39:42
It's a way that they can, you know, transport goods through
39:45
boats and other things. And the and people have settled
39:49
here and they've been here for decades, but they don't have
39:53
access to current stable electricity.
39:57
They don't have access to smartphones or computers.
40:02
They don't have, most of them don't have access to the
40:04
Internet. Most people, if they're in that
40:06
position, will just have a dial phone, like a very simple dial
40:09
phone, but they don't know about the current rising.
40:14
And people are losing their homes and there's flooding and
40:18
then soon, especially if there if there were a storm.
40:23
And again, not a lot of these people would be in a position to
40:27
be able to like rapidly relocate like this is this is their
40:29
livelihood. This is their everything.
40:32
It's devastating for them. And then also there are people
40:36
that live in the more rural areas.
40:38
And I experienced it too in my community that one way that
40:44
people make a living is they burn.
40:47
And at first when I first moved there, I didn't understand why
40:50
they were doing this, but they were burning down very large
40:55
areas of trees, just burning it down to the ground.
41:00
And then what they do is they collect the remains of the trees
41:03
and they sell it for charcoal. Now, what they don't understand
41:07
is number one, this is very bad air pollution.
41:11
And then it also contaminates the rivers and it contaminates
41:16
the soil. But then apart from that, the
41:19
trees have a couple of different purposes.
41:22
One, like the roots actually hold the soil and the ground
41:26
together. And they also help with like
41:29
preserving the aquifers or like the rain that comes down,
41:34
especially like in Africa. In this region of Africa,
41:37
there's two main seasons. There's rainy season and dry
41:40
season. So during the rainy season, the
41:42
trees serve the purpose of like holding together the soil so
41:47
then that there aren't mud slides and flooding that kind of
41:51
destroy the farm lands. And even like they run into like
41:55
where people have settlements. And then during the dry season,
41:58
the trees also holding and preserve the water because there
42:03
is very limited amount of water. But I did experience in this
42:06
community because they were doing this practice of just like
42:09
burning down the trees to make charcoal that there were a lot
42:13
of, there was a lot of flooding and they destroyed their crops
42:17
in their farmland. And then during the dry season,
42:20
we didn't have access to a lot of water and all the water pumps
42:25
one by one were becoming dry and, you know, just completely
42:28
run out of water. And then people, my God, they're
42:33
walking. And I mean, even like whole
42:36
families are just carrying buckets of water on their head.
42:39
They're having to walk more than like 5-10 miles one way and
42:44
another 5-10 miles back every day to get water and make this.
42:48
It is the water that you use for drinking, for washing, for doing
42:53
your laundry, for doing your cooking.
42:55
But they people don't understand what's happening around them or
43:00
the consequences of everything because they don't have access
43:04
to this information. So that's where I really see
43:07
that like this whole digital divide is a really big issue
43:11
because if people had access to news or information to know more
43:16
about the weather for farmers or for people to have access to
43:22
like the best practices for farming and for preservation.
43:27
If people just even had education so they wouldn't have
43:32
to do something like make charcoal or a lot of like there
43:37
are a lot of like international mining companies and they hire
43:41
people and they pay them so little to go mining in dangerous
43:46
places. But if they had education which
43:49
could be provided to them, like, you know, because we can learn
43:52
so many things online or start businesses online, all of these
43:56
different things, a lot of these challenges or, or the way that
44:00
people have to live and honestly like really have to suffer would
44:04
would be greatly reduced. And I mean, that is I'm just
44:08
giving like a very like tangible lived experience example of like
44:13
a much broader issue, but that is essentially like what is the
44:17
digital divide is just this gap of those who have access to
44:21
Internet and information and those that don't.
44:24
And for those who don't, just some examples of like the very
44:28
severe consequences that they face, unfortunately because of
44:31
this challenge. Yeah, Thank you so much, Emma,
44:34
for for sharing. Like those are some global
44:37
challenges that countries, entire continents, right, like
44:41
in the case of Africa are facing right now.
44:44
And you know, when you were sharing that, I was just
44:47
thinking how like that the phrase acknowledge is power
44:49
comes about and like how they have access to that knowledge.
44:53
That's kind of, you know, at the crux of it, like the gateway,
44:56
there's so much more in terms of like how that education can be
44:59
carried out and how they can really like, you know, navigate
45:03
those kind of like new digital ecosystems and how they can
45:07
build that new like small business and how they can, you
45:10
know, reach out and communicate in like new kind of ways, like
45:13
different groups and forums and, and what have you.
45:16
All of that. It's, you know, like there's,
45:19
there's so much that I think they can like readily absorb and
45:22
like learn and then immediately apply and see how that just kind
45:26
of changes not only the landscape, but their communities
45:30
and how they even just kind of really, yeah, grow and, and
45:34
strengthen their, their net knowledge base and like the the
45:37
future of like what their their countries will look like.
45:40
So I think that, you know, there's, there's a lot of
45:44
important work being done and you're, you're on the cusp of
45:47
that, right? You're kind of like on this
45:49
launching pad where you're going to be going and return returning
45:52
back to, to Liberia. And I wanted to ask a question
45:58
kind of what's going through your head right now in terms of
46:01
like, kind of like before heading back there, what's, what
46:04
are you, is there something at the forefront of like what you
46:07
really want to to achieve going back, like when you hit the
46:11
ground running? I don't know, I'm just curious
46:14
kind of like what's kind of front of mind for you at this,
46:16
at this moment? And then also how that ties into
46:19
again this your, how your understanding of global
46:21
citizenship has, you know, evolved right over these
46:25
different chapters of your life. And you're right now about to
46:28
start a brand new one. Yeah, absolutely.
46:32
And I mean, that's a very fun question to think about,
46:35
especially as we're coming into the new year and this is a way
46:38
to kick off the new year, is that I'm going back by one.
46:42
One thing I realized I didn't include this in my intro because
46:46
I was just more focused on like the professional academic part
46:49
of my intro. But something I can also share
46:52
about myself personally is also ties into the forefront of my
46:57
mission everything. Because some people do ask me
47:00
quite often, like, why do you care so much?
47:04
Like why is this so personal to you?
47:06
You're not from there. And is it just really because
47:10
you're thinking about all these issues and everything at like a
47:15
much like broader objective perspective that you have like
47:18
how what is driving you? Like why do you have this
47:21
passion And like something to why I'm so passionate about
47:27
education is and like this is also at the forefront of like my
47:30
why my reason. I'm someone that I was born with
47:34
a learning disability and a lot of people tell me all the time,
47:38
like I would never know. And especially because I tell
47:41
them there was a hearing 1 and it really affected my speech, my
47:46
ability to communicate. And I'm actually only the way
47:50
that I am today because I've had an army of people that helped me
47:54
so much. Like, I'm very lucky that my
47:57
parents recognize what I had at the very early age and
48:00
intervened. And I had speech therapists and
48:05
audiologists. And where I live in South
48:09
Jersey, I'm 30 minutes away from the Children's Hospital of
48:12
Philadelphia. And I had to go there several
48:14
times because they had like a team of specialized
48:20
pediatricians that were able to help me with what I have.
48:24
And through all this intervention and also education
48:27
and everything, again, like I became the person that I am
48:30
today where I'm able to communicate and speak with you.
48:33
But another thing too is that I didn't do well in school.
48:36
I had a very hard time at school because school it felt like A1
48:41
size fits all sort of approach and education as we know is not.
48:47
And what I came to really love and appreciate about the
48:52
Internet and things online is that the Internet and just
48:57
access to technology, like you can learn through games, there's
49:01
videos, there's interactive flash cards.
49:06
And I don't like writing with like just pen and paper, paper
49:10
and pencil because like my handwriting is terrible.
49:14
I love to type things. I love to make visuals and
49:17
graphics, but I think about too, who would I have become without
49:22
the education and support that I had?
49:25
I would not have been anywhere near close to the person I am
49:29
today. And so then I'm picturing this
49:32
continent and I'm picturing, wow, there's billions of Emmas
49:37
out there. There's billions of people like
49:39
myself that, you know, they couldn't reach such a great
49:45
potential. And I mean, it doesn't even
49:47
matter that that potential would have to be something like they
49:51
would have to create a cure for something or invent something,
49:54
but just even for people to have the potential to be their
49:59
happiest and best and most successful selves.
50:03
And I feel like the root of that is education because education
50:07
is a tool that allows you to have a destiny or choice over
50:12
your life in the in the best and fullest capacity.
50:15
So that is at the forefront of why I'm going back because a
50:19
year was great, but it simply is not enough.
50:23
There's so much more to do and to understand and there's
50:26
already connections and people I have met and I've worked with,
50:31
but that work is nowhere near done and there's still so much
50:34
more to do. And above all, I met a just
50:39
incredible youth. I have met Liberian youth who
50:45
are just so passionate and so driven and all they really need
50:50
is they already have the innately within themselves what
50:55
they need to do and achieve what it is that they want to do with
51:00
their lives. It's just they need, they need
51:02
mentorship and support. And I mean, that's what I've had
51:06
gotten all throughout my life. And I would like to give back.
51:10
I would like to give that back to other people so that they are
51:14
able to do the same things for themselves and also in the same
51:17
way to like affect their broader communities.
51:20
And another thing too about Liberia is that it's had a very
51:26
negative perception. And what I feel like it's just
51:30
not a true perception in the media.
51:33
And so just like how you're doing this incredible initiative
51:37
through the podcast, that is also something I'd like to do
51:40
over there is I'm working with other creatives where we're
51:42
focusing on media and podcasts and film because I feel like the
51:48
depiction of Liberia, like their story needs to be told by
51:52
Liberians. And that is also something I'm
51:55
very driven to do, is to keep pushing that envelope further
51:59
and really rewrite the narrative.
52:01
And like I said, there's just so much talent over there.
52:04
They just haven't had access to the support and resources that
52:08
they need to be able to achieve that.
52:11
But ultimately, even though I've learned a lot in my experience,
52:19
I also know that at the forefront of like my mission and
52:23
my reason for going back and, and the work that I plan to do.
52:26
I also know I need to keep an open mind because you know, you
52:30
had described you lived in Brazil for six years and your
52:34
first year there is going to be very different from the 5th or
52:38
6th year that you were there in terms of the things that you've
52:41
experienced and learn. And that's what I also plan to
52:45
do is just more experience, more time, more understanding,
52:50
especially because I am interested in contributing to
52:54
and trying my best to help shape global policies and governance
52:59
and educational practices while over there.
53:01
But the best and most efficient way to do that is you really
53:05
need to, to assimilate yourself well to the country and really
53:10
work with and learn from and understand the locals.
53:13
And I'm, I'm hoping, I want to start in Liberia because that is
53:20
a country that I have made a lot of connections with.
53:23
And it's a place that I consider my home.
53:26
As you know, I have a couple homes in, in this world that we
53:30
live in, but I'd like to expand it as much as I possibly can.
53:36
But I think it's a great place just to start and, you know,
53:39
start, start, as we say in like Liberian colloqua, they'll say
53:43
start small, small. They call it a thing like small
53:45
small and then work your way out into like the bigger, broader
53:49
picture. Oh, I love that.
53:52
You know, it's, it just speaks to the this, well, what you
53:55
shared is like this deeper commitment to wanting to to
53:59
unite with, with with the people there and to, to share in like
54:03
the not only just the struggles, but like the the victories of
54:07
like, you know, tapping into that potential and really
54:10
helping them unlock even more. And yeah.
54:14
And then like having like having it be rooted in gratitude.
54:18
I think it's so important with your own personal story, keeping
54:22
that, that open mind of like, wow, what more am I going to
54:25
learn? How will I grow?
54:27
What will the next couple years look like?
54:30
And I think the, the, the stories that you're trying to
54:35
kind of pull, pull out from from the, the community, I think will
54:39
also be really, really important.
54:41
It needs to be amplified. It needs to be put out there and
54:46
finding a way to kind of with, with those creatives,
54:49
intentionally curate what that that space looks like and who's
54:53
coming into that space, right? Liberian voices and letting that
54:57
shine. I think it's going to be very
54:59
value creative. So I'm so excited to to hear
55:02
more updates about your efforts in Liberia and then also about
55:08
the amazing work that librarians are are putting out there on the
55:11
web so that I can cheer them on and support them even at a
55:16
distance given that I'm paced out here in in California.
55:20
But yeah, this has just been a really, really amazing
55:23
conversation. I've really enjoyed learning
55:25
about the these exciting chapters of your life to really
55:29
bridge the digital divide, to really put education at the
55:34
forefront and really like strive with, you know, your like new,
55:39
your, the new village, the new home, right, this new community
55:43
in, in Liberia that you really want to kind of like stake as
55:48
you're like your mission, right, to create impact for for the
55:53
world. So we're, we're right at the end
55:55
of this conversation. I wanted to ask one final
55:57
question though, if you could share briefly any any
56:01
recommendations. It could be book, movie or any
56:04
anything that kind of comes friend of mine as we kind of
56:06
round out this this conversation.
56:09
Well, thank you so much again for this whole discussion.
56:14
I mean, it's been, it's been great.
56:15
And also just even to learn a little bit more about your lived
56:19
experiences and all that. Again, global citizenship,
56:22
interconnectedness. This is a very tough one because
56:26
I love books and I love films and there's just so many
56:31
incredible ones out there. And even just to think about
56:34
like just one book or fill for global citizenship.
56:38
I don't think there is just one. I think it's, I think what it
56:42
comes down to and what has changed my way of thinking and
56:46
my perception a lot is first and foremost just reading a lot of
56:51
different books and listening to a lot of different podcasts and
56:55
watching a lot of different films made by people all over
56:59
the world. One thing that I've become more
57:02
conscious of is there there have been a lot of films or books
57:06
that I had read when I was younger, but it was from Western
57:13
authors or Western directors, producers depicting what they
57:19
had thought of a particular country or culture from their
57:24
lens. And then, you know, learning
57:27
later on that it's actually very inaccurate and it's not actually
57:30
very true to the culture and the country of the history.
57:33
And again, it was because it was coming from the lens of somebody
57:37
who is not from that country or culture and what was their like
57:41
stereotype or what their perception was.
57:44
And that's where it became more conscious, for instance, that
57:48
instead of reading history about Africa from someone who's
57:54
American or somebody who's European is to read the stories
57:59
and learn about the history of Africa, you know, the various
58:04
countries and cultures, everything from the voices of
58:07
African authors and also watch films from African directors and
58:12
producers. So for instance, there is
58:14
incredible memoirs such as Wangari Matais, Unbowed.
58:19
And she was, you know, she we have a sofa building named after
58:23
her, Nelson Mandela's Long Walk to Freedom.
58:27
I read for for Liberia, Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, Africa's first
58:32
female president, had her own autobiography, This Child Will
58:36
Be Great. And then she there was another
58:38
offer that wrote a story about her life just called Madam
58:42
Sirleaf. There is a book called African
58:45
History of Africa by Zinab Badagli.
58:48
And this is a Sudanese born author who writes kind of like a
58:54
very broad collective history of the continent.
58:58
And then also for Korea, there's a very famous book called Kim
59:03
Jong born 1982. And there's also like several
59:08
other books by Korean authors. But I think that would be my
59:13
best advice is to seek out books and to watch films that are made
59:20
from people of those cultures and regions and really like
59:24
learn about their voice because so that you're not always just
59:29
in the lens or like the perspective of, you know, I'm
59:32
just speaking as an American, like how Americans view this
59:35
culture or country, but like, how is it that these countries
59:38
or cultures view themselves and like, what are their voices and
59:42
what are their lived experiences?
59:44
And the more that you find, it's kind of like a little, you know,
59:49
journey, if you will, But the more of those films and books
59:53
that you really go outside of the box to seek out, I think the
59:57
better and like the more comprehensive view of the world
1:00:01
that you can get. And I think that is like a very
1:00:04
great way to go about global citizenship is just having that
1:00:08
curiosity. Thank you so much, Emma.
1:00:11
You know, not only like you gave the those recommendations for
1:00:14
books, but you also provided such helpful advice in terms of
1:00:18
understanding the the value of diverse perspectives.
1:00:22
And also like from what what vantage point are we really
1:00:26
seeing the story and how it's being told by the author?
1:00:28
And how that was like, you know, is rooted in their own lived
1:00:31
experiences. And that that really brings out
1:00:33
that authentic lens that helps us better understand their
1:00:37
reality more accurately. So, so, yeah, thank you so much,
1:00:41
Emma. I'm just really appreciative for
1:00:43
you to to Share your story. And I'm excited for your next
1:00:46
chapter, the next adventure, and it's going to be great.
1:00:49
So yeah, thank you so much. Emma and thank you so much,
1:00:52
Scott. I'm so excited as well.
1:00:55
And I'm excited for just kicking off the year to a great start by
1:01:01
being a global citizen and being part of this podcast.
1:01:04
And I'm looking forward to more episodes and I'm just so excited
1:01:08
for you.