Latest / Tony & Sarah Unscripted / EP 11: For Us, By Us: A Conversation with Dru Levasseur (Part One)

Transcript

EP 11: For Us, By Us: A Conversation with Dru Levasseur (Part One) · Tony & Sarah Unscripted

• 0:09
  Hi, everyone, and
• 0:10
  welcome to this episode of Tony and Sarah Unscripted.
• 0:13
  Today
• 0:14
  I have to tell you that we have a guest that is really, really close to my heart.
• 0:18
  He's an amazing attorney.
• 0:20
  He's an advocate for the trans community, and he's also my best friend.
• 0:24
  Drew Levasseur, finally, welcome to the show.
• 0:27
  Yay! Yay!
• 0:30
  So for our listeners who don't know you at all,
• 0:33
  believe it or not, there are some people.
• 0:35
  Just tell us a little bit about yourself.
• 0:37
  Okay.
• 0:38
  I am an openly trans attorney.
• 0:41
  As you said, I transitioned 20 years ago.
• 0:45
  I also graduated law school 20 years ago.
• 0:48
  It was a big year
• 0:50
  year, so it's been like a milestone.
• 0:52
  Cut a moment.
• 0:53
  And yeah, I grew up in Connecticut.
• 0:58
  I did most of my
• 1:00
  litigation career in New York City, and in the last,
• 1:05
  I guess, seven years I've been doing diversity, equity and inclusion work.
• 1:10
  And doing a lot of pure mentorship stuff that I'm happy to talk about.
• 1:13
  But most of all, I'm just excited to be here because I'm just so excited
• 1:18
  that you have a podcast with Sarah.
• 1:21
  I love how you guys are keeping it real.
• 1:24
  I have so many things I want to talk about today with both, but
• 1:28
  I think the biggest thing that I'm excited to talk about is our friendship.
• 1:32
  Yeah, it's been a long, long time.
• 1:35
  And I'll tell you, you know, with community connection and all that.
• 1:38
  But we met because of the Jim Collins Foundation.
• 1:42
  So talk a little bit. Yeah.
• 1:45
  Talk a little bit about that.
• 1:47
  Yeah.
• 1:47
  So I mean, I guess our origin story was I was
• 1:51
  I think I just graduated, I was clerking, and I spoke at Yale Law School.
• 1:55
  You were there and would it be connected after that?
• 1:58
  Both talked about how we had both had this dream of like
• 2:01
  starting a foundation to fund
• 2:04
  surgeries for our community.
• 2:07
  This was like 2007.
• 2:10
  And so, I mean, you describe it as our friendship
• 2:13
  kind of grew from doing that work together.
• 2:15
  Absolutely. Oh, absolutely.
• 2:17
  Because we didn't when we started out, I didn't say, oh my God,
• 2:22
  you know, you're a cool guy.
• 2:23
  I mean, I was like, wow.
• 2:24
  He had when I was listening to him speak, I sat back, I was like, Holy shit,
• 2:28
  this guy has the same energy I have in the same passion
• 2:31
  and compassion for our community.
• 2:33
  So I knew I wanted to connect with him, but I've wanted to start a foundation.
• 2:36
  So when I reached out, got his card, reached out to him.
• 2:39
  He had the same exact vision.
• 2:41
  So that, you know, we knew we had to do something together.
• 2:43
  But never, and I don't know about you in a million years said I ever think
• 2:47
  that I would develop the best friendship I've ever had in my whole life.
• 2:51
  Oh, honestly, it's the truth.
• 2:53
  We've we've gotten each other through some hard times, especially now.
• 2:57
  Yeah, yeah.
• 2:57
  I mean, I think, you know,
• 2:58
  one of the things that I didn't know about, like, as an activist or,
• 3:02
  you know, coming up in the community is the importance of finding your people.
• 3:06
  And that community is not an option.
• 3:10
  Like, I think it was like, oh, yeah, I could dip in and out of these support
• 3:13
  groups or do this activism and it's always there.
• 3:17
  But I think the learning experience for me was that
• 3:21
  I need my people, I needed Tony, and it was like
• 3:24
  our evolutionary, our friendship was like, let's do a thing together.
• 3:29
  And it was then about leaning on each other.
• 3:32
  And and that was, I think, the reason that that foundation was successful.
• 3:36
  Yeah.
• 3:37
  I remember like the I remember the first year we were accepting
• 3:41
  applications and that was through snail mail, okay, back in the day.
• 3:45
  And we figured we'd get 1 or 2.
• 3:47
  You know what, the 225 applications came in
• 3:51
  and we only have we only had enough money to help one person.
• 3:55
  And I was so stressed out about that.
• 3:58
  How are we going to say no to all?
• 3:59
  Remember that?
• 4:00
  I mean, you you really supported me through that because it's so funny
• 4:04
  because when I'm stressing out, you come in so common.
• 4:08
  When he's stressing out, it's just it's yeah, balancing act.
• 4:12
  But even before that though, like backing up, I think when we had this idea
• 4:15
  and then we were like we had just both kind of transition around the same time,
• 4:19
  you know, 20 plus years ago. Yeah.
• 4:20
  And we had to look around and like lean on.
• 4:24
  Our elders were like, who?
• 4:25
  Whose shoulders are we standing on?
• 4:28
  Jerry Marie Leasing in Connecticut was a mentor to both of us.
• 4:34
  And, you know, I think about her often,
• 4:36
  and we just lost her in the last couple of years.
• 4:38
  But I think, you know, we we asked, has anybody done this before
• 4:42
  because we didn't want to reinvent the wheel
• 4:44
  and people had tried and and really, you know, because this was a great need.
• 4:49
  I mean, this was before people were talking about trans people
• 4:52
  or they didn't even know what that was.
• 4:54
  And we were talking about a subset within our community of people
• 4:58
  who desperately needed surgeries, not just hormones, but like surgeries.
• 5:03
  So that was a minority within a minority.
• 5:06
  And because we had both had access to getting that covered for very
• 5:11
  I mean, when you had like a car as car accident, I had the settlement.
• 5:14
  Yeah.
• 5:15
  That's how I got my top surgery had, you know, an uncle who,
• 5:18
  you know, helped me out, you know,
• 5:19
  and then we thought we looked around and we were like,
• 5:21
  what about everyone else who doesn't have access to that?
• 5:24
  So we had this such personal understanding of the need,
• 5:28
  and we didn't want to reinvent the wheel.
• 5:29
  And I really do think that our success was
• 5:33
  because it was two of us, and it was because of our friendship.
• 5:37
  We made an agreement at the beginning that what did we say?
• 5:40
  It was like, we're not going to get stressed out about this.
• 5:43
  And even the board, like when we put a board together
• 5:45
  like nobody gets stressed out.
• 5:46
  But when you're reading the applications and we have people tell us their stories
• 5:50
  and every, every word was triggering, sometimes some nights
• 5:54
  and we had to say, okay, don't read more than three applications a night.
• 5:57
  I mean, we really had to take care of ourselves
• 5:59
  because, you know, people were holding on by a thread, you know?
• 6:04
  Yeah. Yeah. So yeah.
• 6:06
  And then having like the board that we created was like, you know, Liz
• 6:11
  we had like one person then we had a couple.
• 6:13
  But it was those often like CIS allies who were also holding,
• 6:19
  holding us together and helping us stay organized and all that.
• 6:22
  So it was it was such an amazing way to like, develop a friendship.
• 6:27
  And I think, you know, we did ten years of service and,
• 6:31
  you know, out there telling our personal stories of something
• 6:34
  deeply personal and, you know, and being visible.
• 6:38
  And when we stepped away from it, I actually had a lot of anxiety of like,
• 6:42
  well, Tony and I still be friends because like, all we knew was
• 6:45
  how to, like, have a project together, you know?
• 6:48
  And so there was like
• 6:50
  another kind of iteration of our, like, what are we going to talk about now?
• 6:58
  Never did something to do.
• 7:01
  And so like,
• 7:01
  I think a lot of our, both of our healing journeys as activists has been, you know,
• 7:06
  like I remember when I worked, I was the director of the Trans
• 7:08
  Rights Project at Lambda Legal, which is like oldest, largest.
• 7:11
  You know, I was the token trans attorney back in like 2009 to 2019.
• 7:17
  You know, and I would be the first one in, last one to leave, you know,
• 7:21
  kind of like I gotta help my community, that kind of martyrdom, desperate
• 7:26
  trauma response, you know, and I think to sustain this work
• 7:31
  over decades like this, it was kind of a wake up call.
• 7:35
  And I feel like, you know, we've helped each other on this.
• 7:38
  It's a wakeup call to be like, wait a second.
• 7:40
  We can't be operating at this kind of crisis level all the time.
• 7:45
  Oh my God.
• 7:46
  You know what?
• 7:47
  If we had to be like, what can we do?
• 7:50
  And what if people done before and what will people do after us?
• 7:54
  Yeah,
• 7:55
  I think that relates to a lot of you focusing on the youth before anybody was.
• 7:59
  Yeah. You know.
• 8:00
  Yeah. That was oh dear and dear to my heart.
• 8:03
  I mean I was a trans youth like a lot of, a lot of
• 8:07
  trans adults because we transition later in life.
• 8:10
  We have to remember.
• 8:12
  So for some of us, I know I was a trans kid, you know, so to to be able
• 8:16
  to help them have a smoother journey or help the parents, you know,
• 8:22
  not accept, but just embrace their child for who they are was really important.
• 8:26
  You know, I'm not doing the work any that much anymore and I miss it.
• 8:30
  But again, you know, 21 years of work,
• 8:33
  maybe it's time to step back a little bit.
• 8:37
  I mean, I'll also say that I think you say you're not doing the work.
• 8:39
  It just looks different.
• 8:41
  I think everybody, like you are still continuing to help so many people.
• 8:46
  You can't even help it.
• 8:49
  You know, your existence has shifted.
• 8:52
  I mean, we can't walk down the street like anywhere in New Haven
• 8:56
  or close by and not run into somebody who a parent
• 9:00
  or a kid who's now in their 30s or I know it's crazy
• 9:04
  who comes up to Tony and says, like, you saved my child's life.
• 9:07
  You changed my life.
• 9:09
  And my God, you know, you are a mentor and an inspiration to so many people.
• 9:14
  And they're walking around today thinking about you in their heads
• 9:17
  and you're like, well, I don't do the work anymore.
• 9:18
  Yes you do.
• 9:19
  It's just yeah, like I'm excited to see, you know what?
• 9:22
  Again, another iteration of like, what does that work look like?
• 9:24
  We started off being like, God help everybody.
• 9:28
  And then we got them.
• 9:29
  We got to help, you know, talk to the world and how other people help.
• 9:33
  And now it's about more healing journey, right? Yeah.
• 9:35
  And and the Jim Collins Foundation, I believe, was the first trans
• 9:40
  led a nonprofit organization that did this work.
• 9:44
  And I think that's important.
• 9:45
  I want you I want to touch base a little bit,
• 9:47
  if you don't mind, on the trans led part of it.
• 9:51
  I think that's getting lost in the world.
• 9:55
  And I don't know if it's because of the way this country is viewing
• 9:58
  trans people or not, but can you touch base on what your thoughts are on that?
• 10:02
  Yeah.
• 10:03
  I mean, I think for, for us, like, you know, with the Jim Collins Foundation
• 10:08
  back in 2007, when we were still kind of figure out the name,
• 10:12
  we named it after Tony's therapist, who was this ally?
• 10:15
  And I never met him, you know, but I passed away suddenly.
• 10:20
  Somebody who helped Tony that much, it was that kind of thing, you know?
• 10:23
  So, you know, we named it after someone was not transgender,
• 10:27
  but it was really important that we as trans people
• 10:31
  who've had that personal experience, that we knew that,
• 10:35
  how people were feeling when they were plying,
• 10:37
  you know, it was really important that we were the ones leading the work.
• 10:41
  And I think that I saw, you know, looked around and looked at all
• 10:44
  the organizations that I was, you know, wanting to work at and dream jobs. And,
• 10:49
  you know,
• 10:50
  there were very few trans led organizations that had any money
• 10:55
  that were, you know, we we actually did our own funding and we,
• 10:58
  you know, looked at into getting some grants.
• 11:00
  And at that time it was like, forget about it.
• 11:03
  There was no way any funder was going to fund trans issues, never mind surgeries.
• 11:08
  Yeah. So we didn't even go down that path.
• 11:11
  We you know, we went to New York City, took classes on grant making and all that.
• 11:14
  And then we realized there's a brick wall.
• 11:16
  So we started doing it,
• 11:18
  you know, just with individual donors and so on and from hearts and minds.
• 11:21
  So that trans led piece was really, authentic.
• 11:26
  Yeah.
• 11:27
  So and I looked around at the organizations that I worked at, as
• 11:30
  you know, the trans, you know, director of the Trans Project or whatever it was,
• 11:34
  it was all cisgender led
• 11:37
  and how it felt to be in those organizations doing the
• 11:41
  work was like sometimes screaming into a void of being like, excuse me.
• 11:46
  What about this?
• 11:47
  And then having to prove my value, having to prove that I belong there,
• 11:51
  never feeling like I belonged,
• 11:53
  never feeling like my voice matter, having other people speak for us.
• 11:56
  It was just so for me that volunteer work I was doing on the side with a full time
• 12:02
  national litigator job, was life giving to me
• 12:06
  because it was teaching me that I do have a voice.
• 12:09
  I do know what I'm talking about. We got us.
• 12:12
  And so I think that was part of the values that I developed,
• 12:15
  you know, in the last 20 years was seeing the power in for us, by us.
• 12:21
  And so, you know, most recently, I was the,
• 12:26
  I served as a director of diversity,
• 12:29
  equity, inclusion for another LGBT, you know, led organization.
• 12:33
  And, you know, I think the evolution for me was like, I need to be working for
• 12:38
  trans lighting, working with transplant, particularly now
• 12:42
  where there is so much anti-trans animus, where,
• 12:46
  you know, the experts are saying, we're midway through a genocide
• 12:49
  here in the United States and the power of trusting
• 12:54
  trans people right now and listening to us in our voices
• 12:58
  as leaders, I think is so critical and so lost right now.
• 13:02
  So most recently, I just did a post on social media about
• 13:07
  I've never worked for a better boss
• 13:10
  like I just started.
• 13:13
  Exactly
• 13:15
  like the most supportive.
• 13:19
  That's awesome.
• 13:20
  Speaking of wellness in the workplace and things like that.
• 13:23
  Like, but having my own consultancy, Drew Levasseur Consulting, is
• 13:28
  it's like life changing for me because I do get to trust my own voice.
• 13:33
  I don't have to, you know, prove my value.
• 13:36
  I don't have to scream into a void and then doubt myself
• 13:39
  and internalize all the the workplace traumas, you know, whatever.
• 13:43
  So, you know, so that's been really powerful.
• 13:45
  And I have chosen to partner with trans led organizations
• 13:50
  like I run this
• 13:53
  trans Legal Professionals networking program.
• 13:56
  That's global, and it's open to anybody who identifies as trans and non-binary,
• 14:00
  who works in the legal field.
• 14:02
  So we're talking not just lawyers,
• 14:03
  but also like business professionals and judges and law students.
• 14:07
  And so we have the full range of, you know, 125 plus folks in there.
• 14:13
  And everybody gets to be at the table together in these meetings
• 14:17
  that I facilitate.
• 14:18
  And it's peer to peer kind of mentorship.
• 14:20
  And I'm partnering with the National Trans Bar, which hosts that.
• 14:24
  So it's a for us by us.
• 14:26
  And we have we're creating, you know, creating these community spaces
• 14:30
  where there's intergenerational different, you know, all the hierarchy we have
• 14:33
  at like law firms, for example, or no,
• 14:35
  you know, business professional never gets to talk to the partner.
• 14:39
  Everybody is in the room together and we're supporting each other
• 14:42
  because we have the same struggles in common.
• 14:44
  And the power of that.
• 14:47
  You know, there's a call right now with this, the, you know, genocide
• 14:51
  and all this stuff that's happening right now.
• 14:52
  There's a call for CIS allies to help us.
• 14:55
  Like when I speak, you know, I'm like, please, we we need you now more than ever.
• 15:01
  But at the same time, we have everything we need.
• 15:04
  And, you know, you know, we got us.
• 15:07
  So there's that kind of duality of like, we don't need you to save us.
• 15:11
  We need to do alongside us and to listen to us.
• 15:16
  Yeah.
• 15:16
  And like, don't, don't stand in front of us.
• 15:19
  That's the whole thing.
• 15:20
  It's like there's a lot of trans people who are definitely in the position
• 15:25
  to lead, but they're, they're not they're not given the opportunity to.
• 15:30
  And it just it breaks my heart.
• 15:32
  Yeah.
• 15:32
  You know,
• 15:32
  because maybe they think they're doing a good thing and they,
• 15:35
  you know from their heart they are.
• 15:36
  But it's not good for our community.
• 15:38
  Yeah. You know, what do you know.
• 15:40
  What do you what's your thoughts?
• 15:41
  I mean, it reminds me of
• 15:44
  as you were talking, I was thinking of, like, women in the work field.
• 15:46
  Right?
• 15:46
  I mean, it's the same type of thing that they're experiencing.
• 15:49
  And and when you look at it that way, what they experience in.
• 15:52
  And to see that trans men are experiencing that exact same thing
• 15:55
  where their voice doesn't matter or they live it.
• 15:59
  So you should be the ones that are leading it because you know
• 16:03
  exactly how it is and you know how how it feels.
• 16:07
  Yeah, trans men and trans women, sorry.
• 16:08
  But also,
• 16:12
  for me, as you know, when I started doing the stuff
• 16:15
  that I was doing, it was like insulting to me.
• 16:19
  And I remember you telling me many times to to be like, you're woman.
• 16:23
  You have no idea.
• 16:24
  And I remember being given a hard time by some people in the LGBTQ community.
• 16:28
  And it was confusing because when we started Guildford Pride,
• 16:33
  the first year that we did it, you were the only person on it
• 16:36
  besides Cameron, on the committee that was transgender or even gay.
• 16:41
  Yeah, you're not getting LGBTQ.
• 16:43
  Yeah, but,
• 16:46
  it was like, well, what are we supposed to do then?
• 16:47
  Are we not supposed to help out?
• 16:50
  We saw I saw a need.
• 16:52
  We saw a need in our own town.
• 16:54
  But it was more making sure that we listened to the community.
• 16:59
  So I do think a lot of the LGBTQ community, and I see it more
• 17:04
  now in my own, in Cameron, don't want to be in the spotlight.
• 17:07
  They don't want to do it can't, and they just don't want to.
• 17:12
  So it's trying to find because we did have two
• 17:17
  lesbians that came on the committee and then lasted a year and that was it.
• 17:22
  And I don't really know why, but,
• 17:25
  we just felt that we not supposed to do what you're doing,
• 17:31
  what we're doing, simply because we're not part of the community.
• 17:35
  When a few of us had transgender children, and that's why we had started it,
• 17:39
  that's why we were doing it.
• 17:40
  But then it was just to remember,
• 17:42
  like you had reminded me, just listen to the community.
• 17:45
  And even Cameron would say, no one's listening to what I'm saying.
• 17:48
  Yeah.
• 17:48
  And he was, you know, a few years younger than he is now.
• 17:52
  So he was, you know, but still
• 17:53
  he was like, but I think this or I think that, and I'm the only one
• 17:57
  that's representing as an LGBTQ community, part of the LGBTQ community.
• 18:02
  So it's kind of a tricky business of trying to figure it out.
• 18:05
  And I got over being sensitive about it, and I just thought,
• 18:08
  well, we're not you know, we're not exclusive.
• 18:11
  You have to be part of the CIS community.
• 18:13
  We would love any and help and anybody helping.
• 18:15
  Now our Alex board is we've got transgender, we've got non-binary,
• 18:20
  non-binary, we've got parents of trans.
• 18:24
  So we've covered it very diverse.
• 18:26
  We've covered it very much.
• 18:27
  But it's hard.
• 18:29
  And people would say to me, you should have people of color.
• 18:31
  How do I find people of color?
• 18:32
  Like, it's harder when you're not in the community
• 18:36
  to find those people that you should have on the board or on the committee,
• 18:40
  but even to find someone of gay representation, representation.
• 18:45
  I was like, oh, should I just say to someone, are you gay?
• 18:49
  I mean, like it was we need a gay person to really hard situation.
• 18:52
  But what I see the two of you
• 18:55
  talking about now is
• 18:58
  it's almost like
• 19:01
  there are trans people that want to be involved,
• 19:03
  and they're not being they're not being allowed to be involved.
• 19:06
  Well, I think it's like, you know, we're going to pave the path for you
• 19:09
  as a like, you know,
• 19:10
  but but there's going to be a gate because you can't go past this spot
• 19:14
  because then you're going to be too much of an in a leadership role.
• 19:16
  So you just stay back there and, you know, listen,
• 19:20
  I've been doing this a long time.
• 19:21
  I know you've been doing this a long time, and I want to see younger people
• 19:25
  at the table.
• 19:26
  I want to see the younger people at the table.
• 19:27
  It's just like when I first started
• 19:29
  doing work with trans kids, there was adults in the room
• 19:32
  telling each other what they needed, and I was like, no, ask them, ask them.
• 19:36
  So we asked the trans community, what do you need?
• 19:39
  Who do you want to see?
• 19:40
  Lead the movement and see what happens now though, because they are very nervous.
• 19:46
  Yeah.
• 19:46
  And the tension or adding people in the spotlight like you really highlight that.
• 19:50
  I mean, that and also what you're talking about, like I feel like it's
• 19:54
  something that we all struggle with because we're all allies to somebody.
• 19:57
  Right?
• 19:57
  And we're all in this position of trying to like, do the right thing and like, oh,
• 20:02
  like the option that you would have of like, well,
• 20:05
  I don't want to, you know, take over and take up space.
• 20:08
  So I better just not do anything at all.
• 20:10
  It's not an option that you had. Right? Yeah.
• 20:12
  And so you're like, I have to do something.
• 20:14
  I'm going to do it in perfectly. That's what we're all doing.
• 20:17
  Like we're going to lean into it.
• 20:18
  It's going to we're going to have to clean stuff up.
• 20:21
  But we have to do something.
• 20:23
  And the more we can have, you know, people who are like,
• 20:27
  I always like to quote like Congresswoman Ayanna Pressley from Massachusetts.
• 20:31
  She says those closest to the pain need to be closest to the power.
• 20:35
  That's one of the values of like, and nothing about us without us.
• 20:40
  Those kinds of statements in my head are always like,
• 20:43
  that's how I try to do the work of,
• 20:45
  you know, and allyship, even with our own community, as you know,
• 20:48
  to white trans guys, we often were in a position of being allies,
• 20:53
  even with the Jim Collins Foundation work, because we were trying to center
• 20:56
  the people who are most marginalized in our community and trying to make sure
• 20:59
  that we had an inclusive board that we were really like
• 21:03
  with the structure of how we were doing the selection.
• 21:06
  We ended up having an anonymous selection committee of mostly like,
• 21:11
  trans women of color, you know, like, who could we center to make the decisions?
• 21:15
  So it was all a design question of like, how do we design this work
• 21:20
  so that we're actually getting the correct voices and not having
• 21:24
  like the one person on the board, you know, speak for the whole community?
• 21:27
  Like we couldn't speak. Yeah.
• 21:28
  And it was all like, yeah.
• 21:30
  And it was based on financial need.
• 21:32
  Like, you know, you you like
• 21:34
  I remember when we first started, I got a phone call from this trans woman.
• 21:38
  She was like, well, I really don't want to put a second mortgage on my home.
• 21:40
  And I was like, well, no, listen, this is for like people who have nothing.
• 21:46
  They would never be able to access that. Right?
• 21:48
  I think that we even
• 21:49
  funded a trans guys top surgery that was in a homeless shelter,
• 21:53
  and then he was so confident afterwards he became a barber.
• 21:56
  And now he's really, really successful.
• 21:58
  But there was a misconception from the start because it was led
• 22:02
  by two trans guys that we only funded top surgeries.
• 22:07
  Yeah.
• 22:07
  When most of the majority of the surgeries were trans for trans females.
• 22:12
  Yeah. Yeah.
• 22:13
  You know, so yeah, I mean,
• 22:14
  I think the allyship piece is something that I feel like we all need to lean into.
• 22:18
  And it kind of relates to like one of the themes about where do we find folks?
• 22:22
  A lot of that trans led work
• 22:24
  that I'm trying to do, like the mission is to create a pipeline,
• 22:28
  like we need to have a pipeline of people, particularly like trans
• 22:31
  people of color, who we can say, oh, we're investing in folks.
• 22:35
  And now we know when we have physicians, we know who we can turn to.
• 22:39
  Or the younger people who, like you said, have the voices and know what they need,
• 22:44
  and they are the experts, you know, so that, you know, for
• 22:48
  so so the trans legal professionals group
• 22:50
  like that is a pipeline because they have like incoming law students
• 22:55
  having access to trans judges.
• 22:57
  And, you know, literally
• 22:58
  looking at like the legal pipeline of like and having a group,
• 23:02
  I have sponsors of this group of like law firms and now even a trans
• 23:06
  led company in Portugal.
• 23:07
  One of the
• 23:08
  former partners at a law firm is a trans woman of color, moved to Portugal
• 23:11
  because some people
• 23:12
  who have money right now are moving out of the country, as we know.
• 23:16
  And she, you know, sponsors the group.
• 23:19
  So it's like trans led companies sponsoring.
• 23:21
  That's cool.
• 23:22
  Well, that's very cool. Yeah.
• 23:23
  So but the people want to know who's who's supporting this work
• 23:27
  when they're thinking about where should I go work?
• 23:29
  Where is it safe? Who's going to support me?
• 23:31
  So I'm trying to connect those things to.
• 23:34
  But creating a pipeline, I feel like it's something that,
• 23:37
  like going back to what you said of, like, you doing the work,
• 23:40
  you have created a pipeline with the work you've done over the last 20 plus years
• 23:45
  of this network of people who have now believing in themselves,
• 23:48
  or now what are they like, doctors?
• 23:50
  And I mean, yeah, it's no, it's just amazing.
• 23:52
  It amazes me because you don't realize like when like when my art
• 23:57
  show on Sunday,
• 23:58
  the parent came in and she was like, oh yeah, you know, my kid is 26.
• 24:01
  I was like 26.
• 24:03
  What are you talking about? What happened? Yeah.
• 24:06
  And I mean, like, some of them are now 30, you know, you know,
• 24:09
  they were 14, you know, 20 years.
• 24:12
  I did not know I don't age, you know, I don't even age mental like I am.
• 24:17
  I am proud of my immaturity.
• 24:19
  It's just the way I am.
• 24:20
  So you got glad you got used to it.
• 24:22
  Oh, yeah, he got used to it.
• 24:24
  He's just as mature as I am.
• 24:25
  I can tell the stories, but I won't.
• 24:28
  So our conversation with drew has been so great
• 24:31
  that we're going to continue it with the second part.
• 24:34
  So stay tuned for that. Thanks for listening, everyone.